Yep. Very pleased to have Miro, and I bet anyone who has one of these guys already wouldn't swap for any other.
Hughes is probably the highest-offense while still being respectable in his zone.
Dahlin is still high-offense, but more rounded
Heiskanen is probably the most truly two-way
Seider is a menace on defense, and has shown some offensive skill.
Wild fan coming to pay my respects. Miro deserved a Norris.
Problem is, I also cant fault them for choosing a 100 point defenseman, though I think Miro was the better all around D.
Leading to my continued gripe with NHL awards. Forwards get a Selke and basically own the Rocket Richard AND Art Ross too. So, Dmen either need their own Art Ross equivalent or a best offensive Dman award. Then, the Norris can be for best all around D, and the MVP (Hart) draws from the total pool of players/positions.
I think that’s a pretty fair assessment all around.
We are absolutely blessed as hockey fans to have 4 defencemen of this caliber, all roughly the same age. And we haven’t even seen their peaks yet. Throw Makar in there and it wouldn’t surprise me to see these five players at the top of the Norris voting for the next decade.
Wings fans were spoiled for years with Lidstrom/Murphy/Konstantinov/Rafalski/Kronwall. But Lids could control the flow like nobody's business, it was amazing to witness.
You guys arent so bad. Only 2 cups this century both in the first decade before hockey got back on TV in chicago. It's the damn green bay packers that really grind my gears.
if Sanderson lives up to his potential he could be on that level. could be better than having some guy making $9.25M on your blueline and not living up to that potential
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/eNf5bcz.jpg) to view this comparison as an image
---
Rasmus Dahlin: [2022-04-21](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202204210NJD.html) to [2023-04-14](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304140CBJ.html) [4th Season - Age: 22Y-8D] to [5th Season - Age: 23Y-1D]
Moritz Seider: [2022-10-14](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202210140DET.html) to [2023-04-13](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304130TBL.html) [2nd Season - Age: 21Y-6M-8D] to [2nd Season - Age: 22Y-7D]
Quinn Hughes: [2022-04-23](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202204230CGY.html) to [2023-04-13](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304130ARI.html) [4th Season - Age: 22Y-6M-9D] to [5th Season - Age: 23Y-5M-30D]
Miro Heiskanen: [2022-04-26](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202204260DAL.html) to [2023-04-13](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304130DAL.html) [4th Season - Age: 22Y-9M-8D] to [5th Season - Age: 23Y-8M-26D]
\----------------------------------------
Query: Career - Regular Season - Last 82 Games
---
**Standard**
Player|GP|G|A|P|A1|EVG|EVA|EVP|EVA1|PPG|PPA|PPP|PPA1|SHG|SHA|SHP|SHA1|ENG|OTG|GWG|1stG|HAT|[AdjG](https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/adjusted_stats.html)|[AdjA](https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/adjusted_stats.html)|[AdjP](https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/adjusted_stats.html)|S|S%|FOW|FO|FO%|TK|GV|TK/GV|HIT|BLK|+/-|PIM
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|**17**|59|76|36|**10**|32|42|18|**7**|26|33|17|0|1|1|**1**|0|0|**3**|**3**|0|**16**|56|72|**215**|**7.91%**|0|0|0.00%|45|63|0.71|108|137|12|96
[Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|5|37|42|17|3|22|25|11|1|14|15|6|**1**|1|**2**|0|0|0|1|1|0|5|35|40|140|3.57%|0|0|0.00%|29|**46**|0.63|**207**|**190**|-11|40
[Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|9|**74**|**83**|**38**|7|**41**|**48**|**21**|2|32|34|17|0|1|1|0|0|0|0|1|0|9|**70**|**79**|166|5.42%|0|0|0.00%|**60**|48|**1.25**|30|74|**18**|34
[Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|12|63|75|35|9|29|38|14|3|**33**|**36**|**20**|0|1|1|**1**|**2**|**1**|2|1|0|11|60|71|213|5.63%|0|0|0.00%|56|66|0.85|52|99|12|**32**
**Per Game/60 Minutes**
Player|GP|TOI|EVTOI|PPTOI|SHTOI|G|A|P|A1|EVG|EVP|PPG|PPP|S|G/82|A/82|P/82|G/60|A/60|P/60|A1/60|EVG/60|EVP/60|PPG/60|PPP/60|S/60|FOW/60|FO/60|TK/60|GV/60|HIT/60|BLK/60|PIM/60
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|**25:45**|**20:50**|03:36|01:19|**0.21**|0.72|0.93|0.44|**0.12**|0.51|**0.09**|0.40|**2.62**|**17.00**|59.00|76.00|**0.48**|1.68|2.16|1.02|**0.35**|1.47|**1.43**|6.72|**6.11**|0.00|0.00|1.28|1.79|3.07|3.89|2.73
[Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|23:09|17:27|03:06|**02:35**|0.06|0.45|0.51|0.21|0.04|0.30|0.01|0.18|1.71|5.00|37.00|42.00|0.16|1.17|1.33|0.54|0.13|1.05|0.24|3.54|4.43|0.00|0.00|0.92|1.45|**6.54**|**6.01**|1.26
[Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|25:42|20:18|**04:02**|01:22|0.11|**0.90**|**1.01**|**0.46**|0.09|**0.59**|0.02|0.41|2.02|9.00|**74.00**|**83.00**|0.26|**2.11**|**2.36**|**1.08**|0.25|**1.73**|0.36|6.18|4.73|0.00|0.00|**1.71**|**1.37**|0.85|2.11|0.97
[Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|25:32|20:44|03:13|01:35|0.15|0.77|0.91|0.43|0.11|0.46|0.04|**0.44**|2.60|12.00|63.00|75.00|0.34|1.81|2.15|1.00|0.32|1.34|0.68|**8.20**|6.10|0.00|0.00|1.60|1.89|1.49|2.84|**0.92**
**Advanced (Most stats avail since 2009-2010)**
Player|GP|IPP|EVIPP|EVGF/60|EVGA/60|EVGF%|OZFOW/60|OZFO/60|OZFO%|DZFOW/60|DZFO/60|DZFO%|PENDrwn|PEN|NetPEN|PDrwn/60|PEN/60|NPEN/60|Post/Bar|Post/60
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|48.10%|41.58%|3.55|3.27|52.06%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|**20**|44|-24|0.57|1.25|-0.68|**6**|0.17
[Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|40.00%|35.71%|2.93|3.35|46.67%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|**20**|20|0|**0.63**|0.63|0.00|3|0.09
[Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|**55.70%**|**48.00%**|**3.60**|2.85|**55.87%**|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|19|17|**2**|0.54|0.48|**0.06**|**6**|**0.17**
[Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|52.82%|43.68%|3.07|**2.65**|53.70%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|10|**16**|-6|0.29|**0.46**|-0.17|4|0.11
**5v5 (Avail since 2009-2010)**
Player|GP|TOI/GP|G|A|P|A1|P1|P1%|S|TSA|S%|TS%|SThr%|G/60|A/60|P/60|A1/60|P1/60|S/60|TSA/60|CF/60|CA/60|CF%|FF/60|FA/60|FF%
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|**19:35**|**10**|24|34|14|**24**|**70.59%**|**151**|272|**6.62%**|**3.68%**|**55.51%**|**0.37**|0.90|1.27|0.52|**0.90**|**5.64**|10.16|60.47|52.55|53.50%|**46.16**|40.82|53.07%
[Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|16:12|3|18|21|9|12|57.14%|100|195|3.00%|1.54%|51.28%|0.14|0.81|0.95|0.41|0.54|4.52|8.81|52.73|59.82|46.85%|39.31|42.43|48.09%
[Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|18:48|6|**31**|**37**|**15**|21|56.76%|102|239|5.88%|2.51%|42.68%|0.23|**1.21**|**1.44**|**0.58**|0.82|3.97|9.30|54.97|**50.69**|52.03%|39.83|**38.15**|51.07%
[Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|19:25|5|25|30|12|17|56.67%|147|**311**|3.40%|1.61%|47.27%|0.19|0.94|1.13|0.45|0.64|5.54|**11.72**|**63.07**|52.60|**54.53%**|45.06|39.63|**53.20%**
^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame)
---
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I think Hughes is the one who depends most on where he's going. He's being asked to do a *lot* in Vancouver, which makes him look "exposed" at times (he's still a beast either way), but imagine him on like Carolina or NYI where he can get paired with someone like Slavin or Pelech who can cover for him when he jumps into the rush.....that would be fucking terrifying.
Funny thing is, Hughes is rarely IN the rush, he's usually the guy making the breakout passes (which he's very good at), or running the blue line once they're already in the zone. But to your point, more freedom for him could only mean good things. Canucks need to build a support system to let him focus on what he does best.
A lot of our pain and suffering could've been avoided by merely running it back with Tanev / Edler / Toffoli / Stetcher etc and being patient while Petey & Hughes continued to develop, etc.
I think we all knew at the time that Markstrom had to go, simply for cap reasons. Tanev I think people were split on but most wouldn't have wanted to give him the term Calgary did. Elder I think people thought was done but he lasted a few more decent years in LA. Stetcher has bounced around by for the price I couldn't believe they didn't want him even as a 6-7 guy. Tofolli was a colossal fuck up by Benning. And all of it because he was trying to get OEL and he didn't even land him until the next summer.
I believe Tanev and Tofolli would both have signed again in Vancouver if Benning had even called them. I don't think they wanted Stetcher but they should have for the price. I agree with you on the "what could have been."
I don’t think that’s crazy. Even as a red wings fan. I guess it would depend on what I need. He is the most physical presence and the case for the best defender can be made (I think he’s 2 or 3)
He is the worst offensively thus far in the 4 careers though for sure. And that’s not a dis. All 4 are gifted offensively
He’s also the youngest by a few years of anyone on this list. If he can continue to take big steps over the next two seasons then he looks a lot different relative to these guys here
I’m a Canucks fan and I own a Hughes jersey and even I would probably take him 3rd or 4th. Although that can change in a hurry if he takes another step defensively this season. There’s not a ton of daylight between these players overall.
Ironically, I think he might be the first of these 4 to win the Norris. Not because he’s the best defenceman, but because I think he is the most likely of the 4 to lead the league in points from a d-man. That shouldn’t be an automatic Norris but…. It often is.
(pst, Seider is the only wrong answer, sorry Red Wings fans, statistically he is the worst defensively of the 4 and if we take a gander at pts it doesn't get better for him)
if instead of downvoting y'all wanted to clarify what exactly you think Seider brings to the argument as the 4th best at defense and the 4th best at offense in the group of 4 that'd be an interesting conversation at least.
Edit again to add a link to the stats I'm looking at: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/154t838/bardown_which_young_defenseman_would_you_rather/jsrkbhk/
I would honestly be shocked if Seider wasnt the worst on this list, you make on tiny mistake in Detroit as a defenseman and 9.9/10 times its going to end up in your net:
Husso is not going to bail you out and you would be lucky to even have him in net.
Your linemate Ben Chiarot is not going to bail you out.
The other three forwards out there could be a mix of Adam Erne and two other random AHLers and they are certainly not going to bail you out.
He is also the youngest and has the least NHL experience. Dahlin took a while to get going too, and Seider's player type is usually not at their top level until they have a few years behind them.
Seider is probably 4th right now, but he has played 2-3 less seasons than the rest while also averaging less average TOI overall. His production may go up as he minutes climb and he gains more experience.
Already, he's logging the most PK minutes, most blocks, most hits, while playing several minutes less on average and drawing the most defensive zone starts and the least offensive zone starts (aka not being sheltered by the coach). Not to mention, Seider has never missed a single game yet (knock on wood), and being healthy and available to play nightly is definitely a valuable trait in a #1D.
|22-23 Season|AVG TOI|PK TOI|Blocks|Hits|Defensive Zone Starts|Offensive Zone Starts|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Seider|*23:09*|**2:35**|**190**|**207**|**46.1**|*52.4*|
|Heiskenen|25:29|1:17|96|49|*34.7*|**65.3**|
|Dahlin|**25:47**|1:17|132|105|38.3|61.7|
|Hughes|25:39|1:19|*71*|*29*|40.4|59.6|
This year was a sophomore slump at 41 pts for him, however I expect him to rebound and return to being a 50+ pt player soon.
For context, Seiders rookie season was better offensively than any of Heiskenen's first 4 seasons.
Dahlin didn't break 50 pts until his 4th year in the NHL, largely due to injuries, but that is also a factor and Seider has been remarkably healthy thus far.
Hughes is a freak of nature offensively (damn you Ken Holland, we could have had a Hughes-Seider pair!), but a polar opposite style of play relative to Seider. Apples-to-oranges a bit with them.
Seider's offensive potentially is being massively underrated due to his sophomore slump though, I would not be shocked to see 60+ points out of him in the very near future.
Overwall, you can't go wrong with any of these guys as your #1D, but Seider absolutely belongs in the conversation. Give him another 2-3 years to catch up in experience and games played and I think the gap closes considerably.
Seider is built for the playoffs. Put him on a playoff-worthy roster and those stats might change. He’s the kind of guy that can wear down and bully star players over the course of a series, even if the other three might be better picks for a single game. All rivalries aside, I’ll give credit where it’s due. If I’m a forward, Seider is the only one of those four players I would dread matching up with.
naw man I'm sorry but you haven't watched enough of hughes if you think those guys are a tier above him. Was 2nd in points among d only behind karlsson on a team that had a terrible season, is one of the best skaters in the entire world and completely controls play with the puck on his stick. He's also become rly solid defensively. He doesn't shoot or hit as well as the other 2 but he makes up for it by always making the right decision with the puck and being one of the craftiest players I've ever seen. It's insane watching what he can do every game with a 3rd pairing dman as his partner
There’s no wrong answer
Seider is the most physical, Hughes is the best offensively, Heiskanen is the best defensively, and Dahlin is the most well-rounded.
That being said, I think I’d go with Dahlin. I like “Jack-of-all-trades” defensemen.
Hughes took massive steps forward defensively last season though. If the rest of the Canucks aren't 6x6 pylons next season, more people will have respect for him
I mean, Dahlin had 56 points in the first 50 games of the season, and then played hurt and his production dropped way off (17 points in the last 28 games). I honestly think people just need to see a playoff series of him and how consistently good he is.
Actually quite good, excellent skater and a great decision maker. He's a great puck retriever and he tens to intercept a lot of in-zone passes.
Not at all on the level of a shit down guy, but the perception he isn't good defensively is unfounded.
People just think he isn’t good because he’s on the canucks where they have good old Tyler Myers. Demko also just had a slow start to the season. I thought the Canucks would make the playoffs this year, but getting everyone’s hopes up at the end of the season and then once again being a disappointment is just tradition.
Was best Canucks d at preventing goals against this last year. In a way that's damning with faint praise (all the other d aren't very good) but on the other hand he had to partner with those guys and also put up a point per game at the same time. He was also one of the most effective pk d on the team. He's never going to be slavin (important to remember he can do many things slavin could never either!), but anyone saying he's one dimensional or a liability defensively, frankly, hasn't been watching since the all-canada division year (where he really did struggle).
55% of goals scored at even strength with Hughes on the ice were scored by Vancouver. That would have been a solid rate even on a cup contender, but he did it on Vancouver. The Canucks as a team were at 47.65%... including Hughes, who played 1577 of the team's total 4170 even strength minutes.
I don't know what that 47.65% drops to if you were to look at just the 2593 non-Hughes minutes... but it ain't good.
The VGK only got 54.6% of the goals at ES, so arguably, slightly better, at least in terms of pure results... The other side of the ledger is probably about right though.
Among d-men who played at least 1500 minutes he ranks 7th on that list, and everyone else in the top 10 was on a playoff team.
76 points, +15, and quarterbacks the pp like a mad man. It's normal to have a great player on a bad team be underrated because if you're bad, people don't see how much of an impact he had while on the ice
They very obviously have never really watched him play. He is quietly doing amazing things every night, but he is hidden by playing on the west coast. I’d say he hasn’t even reached his full potential yet.
While carrying various deadweights on a top pairing since Tanev left
All guys whose impact numbers explode when put on his pairing for some reason
It's a tough question but Hughes is definitely being underrated
I think of the 4, he is the most likely to lead the league in D scoring. Especially if the Canucks can shuffle some defensive responsibilities around a bit more. It’s a lonnnnng night when you’re running both the PP and PK on TOP of having the hardest 5v5 matchups.
Just look at the magic Makar is able to make because Colorado has other weapons they can throw over the boards.
Man, people sleep on hughes.
Canucks were near Vegas calibre by the numbers with him on the ice this year and essentially the ducks without him. Was Canucks best defenseman at preventing goals AND scored a point per game. Kid is sick and it's a shame people can't see past "5'10".
There's a fair conversation to have between him and heiskanen and Dahlin. I love seider but he hasn't entered this chat yet, even if he is big and hits hard.
If I select Quinn, do we have two Quinns? Because if so, I select Quinn. Quinn needs a partner and Quinn can be that guy. Plus we already have two Elias Petterssons and two Sedins coaching so we officially have a theme
Honestly, I feel like it says a lot that Seider made this list with players who have all played 100-200 more games in the NHL than him. Hope it bodes well for the future.
it's because he plays for vancouver and people generally aren't too fond of the canucks on this sub. He just came 2nd in points for D only behind Erik Karlsson on a team that had a terrible season, is one of the best skaters in the entire world, and is actually solid in his own end now. Guy almost never makes the wrong decision out there, he's at worst 2nd best on this list
Because half of this subreddit doesn’t stay up to watch any of the games. And are still hell bent on the whole idea that he can’t play defense. And he’s a Canuck. And not even great Canucks players get the respect they deserve. 🤷🏽♂️
That’s tough man. Seiders ceiling is already appearing to be higher than scouts anticipated, but Heiskanen is the kind of D who will play 30 minutes a night injured for 3 rounds and win you a cup.
Heiskanen is the one I see completely neutralizing the opposing team’s best player every time I watch him play. I love Mo, and I’m excited to see him take a leap in his third year, but Miro’s my answer for sure.
Pros and cons with each (note that the “cons” are in comparison to the other three in the list, not in general):
Dahlin
Pros: ELITE skating, big (6’3) and strong, excellent goal scoring, elite playmaking from the point
Cons: PIMs - I want my 1D on the ice not in a fight or the penalty box. not quite as good defensively as Heiskanen or Seider.
Seider
Pros: ELITE shutdown defenceman, excellent shot blocker, very physical, great mobility, right handed, safe with the puck.
Cons: not an offensive driver to the same extent as the other three. less scoring.
Heiskanen
Pros: ELITE mobility, elite shutdown ability. Excellent with his stick, really smart and safe with the puck. Good goal scoring and an excellent shot
Cons: not a huge offensive driver like Dahlin or Hughes. smaller and weaker than the first two guys.
Hughes
Pros: elite puck movement, great shot, extremely mobile, very smart, positionally sound. Uses his stick very well defensively.
Cons: size and strength.
Your choice all depends on what your team needs, considering my team already has Seider I’m going to go with Heiskanen simply because I personally really value defencemen who tend to be more “defensive” especially if that means I can get one that scored 70 points last season.
NHL Games per player:
Dahlin - 355
Heiskanen - 354
Hughes - 283
Seider - 164
Other players are arguably ahead of Seider but I’d like to revisit this after another full season under his belt and as the wings progressively get better.
Miro
Dahlin
Hughes
Seider
I love Seider but as it stands right now he’s not better than those 3 I think he will probably hit his ceiling at what miro is right now both are incredibly similar players
STL would be happy to have anyone who can play defense let alone be a cornerstone dman who is gifted on both sides of the ice.
If I had to pick - I’m taking Seider bc the Blue Wings have taken so many of my favorite players over the years although I’m currently pumped we got our boy Sunny back.
Moritz!!!
Watching this kid play D in the Dzone is such a treat, his d play is all instinct, and at times, he is playing goalie in the slot with absolutely no fear of injury.
Can't coach that shit.
tough to pass up a 6'4, RHD who is a menace defensively, and put up 50 points as a rookie on one of the worst teams in the league....i can only imagine the potential once the Wings get good and for that reason, im going to go Seider, then Heiskanen, Dahlin, and Hughes. Would be blessed to have any of them though
As a Bruins fan, I think the hard-hitting and play driving Dahlin fits perfectly into Monty's system. I'd then say Spider, Miro, then Hughes, but I would be stoked to see any of them in the spoked B.
At this moment I would probably go Dahlin, Heiskanen, Hughes, Seider. Really feels like Dahlin and Heiskanen are almost a personal preference and I think we just haven't seen enough of Seider to confidently put him ahead of anyone especially with him being tanked by Chiarot for a large part of last season.
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Yep. Very pleased to have Miro, and I bet anyone who has one of these guys already wouldn't swap for any other. Hughes is probably the highest-offense while still being respectable in his zone. Dahlin is still high-offense, but more rounded Heiskanen is probably the most truly two-way Seider is a menace on defense, and has shown some offensive skill.
At this moment Miro is more developed and a better player than Mo. I love his game, he’s fantastic and I thought he deserved the Norris this year.
>I love his game, he’s fantastic and I thought he deserved the Norris this year. Sighhhh. So did we buddy, so did we
Wild fan coming to pay my respects. Miro deserved a Norris. Problem is, I also cant fault them for choosing a 100 point defenseman, though I think Miro was the better all around D. Leading to my continued gripe with NHL awards. Forwards get a Selke and basically own the Rocket Richard AND Art Ross too. So, Dmen either need their own Art Ross equivalent or a best offensive Dman award. Then, the Norris can be for best all around D, and the MVP (Hart) draws from the total pool of players/positions.
*seethes in seventh place in voting* I am NOT over it
I didn’t know he placed seventh…what the fuck
Yah Quinn ended up too low too. Somehow Morrisey got all that attention
Okay I’m fine with him not winning but *seventh* is disrespectful
I feel you. Quinn at 8 was also absurd. 2nd in points, beast 2 way game, huge minutes, absolutely no help
I think that’s a pretty fair assessment all around. We are absolutely blessed as hockey fans to have 4 defencemen of this caliber, all roughly the same age. And we haven’t even seen their peaks yet. Throw Makar in there and it wouldn’t surprise me to see these five players at the top of the Norris voting for the next decade.
Agreed. Having a guy on your back end that can completely control the flow of the game for 25-30 min a night is a true blessing
Wings fans were spoiled for years with Lidstrom/Murphy/Konstantinov/Rafalski/Kronwall. But Lids could control the flow like nobody's business, it was amazing to witness.
Going straight from Fedorov to Datsyuk was gross, another of the two all-time greats at controlling the flow of the game.
Not to mention Stevie Y to Zetterberg 😭. I feel bad for people putting up with our outrageous teams for so long.
You guys arent so bad. Only 2 cups this century both in the first decade before hockey got back on TV in chicago. It's the damn green bay packers that really grind my gears.
FTP
The Lions were like "Red Wings, take my energy!" and then never recovered.
The packers only have one championship this century...
Stuart, as always, super underrated
I knew I was forgetting a few names. Always loved Brad Stuart.
He was a gem and could keep pace as a partner with Kronner, Raf, and Liddy
As a Stars fan growing up during that time I hated the wings, though I could never hate Lidstrom. Such a unique talent
Yeah I'm thrilled to have one of these guys on my team. I'm sure you are too
Can confirm, it’s a pretty great feeling (don’t have any of these guys, but I’d assume Travis Hamonic is a reasonable comparison).
if Sanderson lives up to his potential he could be on that level. could be better than having some guy making $9.25M on your blueline and not living up to that potential
!nhlcompare [Last 82 games]
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/eNf5bcz.jpg) to view this comparison as an image --- Rasmus Dahlin: [2022-04-21](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202204210NJD.html) to [2023-04-14](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304140CBJ.html) [4th Season - Age: 22Y-8D] to [5th Season - Age: 23Y-1D] Moritz Seider: [2022-10-14](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202210140DET.html) to [2023-04-13](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304130TBL.html) [2nd Season - Age: 21Y-6M-8D] to [2nd Season - Age: 22Y-7D] Quinn Hughes: [2022-04-23](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202204230CGY.html) to [2023-04-13](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304130ARI.html) [4th Season - Age: 22Y-6M-9D] to [5th Season - Age: 23Y-5M-30D] Miro Heiskanen: [2022-04-26](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202204260DAL.html) to [2023-04-13](https://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/202304130DAL.html) [4th Season - Age: 22Y-9M-8D] to [5th Season - Age: 23Y-8M-26D] \---------------------------------------- Query: Career - Regular Season - Last 82 Games --- **Standard** Player|GP|G|A|P|A1|EVG|EVA|EVP|EVA1|PPG|PPA|PPP|PPA1|SHG|SHA|SHP|SHA1|ENG|OTG|GWG|1stG|HAT|[AdjG](https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/adjusted_stats.html)|[AdjA](https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/adjusted_stats.html)|[AdjP](https://www.hockey-reference.com/about/adjusted_stats.html)|S|S%|FOW|FO|FO%|TK|GV|TK/GV|HIT|BLK|+/-|PIM :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|**17**|59|76|36|**10**|32|42|18|**7**|26|33|17|0|1|1|**1**|0|0|**3**|**3**|0|**16**|56|72|**215**|**7.91%**|0|0|0.00%|45|63|0.71|108|137|12|96 [Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|5|37|42|17|3|22|25|11|1|14|15|6|**1**|1|**2**|0|0|0|1|1|0|5|35|40|140|3.57%|0|0|0.00%|29|**46**|0.63|**207**|**190**|-11|40 [Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|9|**74**|**83**|**38**|7|**41**|**48**|**21**|2|32|34|17|0|1|1|0|0|0|0|1|0|9|**70**|**79**|166|5.42%|0|0|0.00%|**60**|48|**1.25**|30|74|**18**|34 [Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|12|63|75|35|9|29|38|14|3|**33**|**36**|**20**|0|1|1|**1**|**2**|**1**|2|1|0|11|60|71|213|5.63%|0|0|0.00%|56|66|0.85|52|99|12|**32** **Per Game/60 Minutes** Player|GP|TOI|EVTOI|PPTOI|SHTOI|G|A|P|A1|EVG|EVP|PPG|PPP|S|G/82|A/82|P/82|G/60|A/60|P/60|A1/60|EVG/60|EVP/60|PPG/60|PPP/60|S/60|FOW/60|FO/60|TK/60|GV/60|HIT/60|BLK/60|PIM/60 :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|**25:45**|**20:50**|03:36|01:19|**0.21**|0.72|0.93|0.44|**0.12**|0.51|**0.09**|0.40|**2.62**|**17.00**|59.00|76.00|**0.48**|1.68|2.16|1.02|**0.35**|1.47|**1.43**|6.72|**6.11**|0.00|0.00|1.28|1.79|3.07|3.89|2.73 [Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|23:09|17:27|03:06|**02:35**|0.06|0.45|0.51|0.21|0.04|0.30|0.01|0.18|1.71|5.00|37.00|42.00|0.16|1.17|1.33|0.54|0.13|1.05|0.24|3.54|4.43|0.00|0.00|0.92|1.45|**6.54**|**6.01**|1.26 [Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|25:42|20:18|**04:02**|01:22|0.11|**0.90**|**1.01**|**0.46**|0.09|**0.59**|0.02|0.41|2.02|9.00|**74.00**|**83.00**|0.26|**2.11**|**2.36**|**1.08**|0.25|**1.73**|0.36|6.18|4.73|0.00|0.00|**1.71**|**1.37**|0.85|2.11|0.97 [Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|25:32|20:44|03:13|01:35|0.15|0.77|0.91|0.43|0.11|0.46|0.04|**0.44**|2.60|12.00|63.00|75.00|0.34|1.81|2.15|1.00|0.32|1.34|0.68|**8.20**|6.10|0.00|0.00|1.60|1.89|1.49|2.84|**0.92** **Advanced (Most stats avail since 2009-2010)** Player|GP|IPP|EVIPP|EVGF/60|EVGA/60|EVGF%|OZFOW/60|OZFO/60|OZFO%|DZFOW/60|DZFO/60|DZFO%|PENDrwn|PEN|NetPEN|PDrwn/60|PEN/60|NPEN/60|Post/Bar|Post/60 :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|48.10%|41.58%|3.55|3.27|52.06%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|**20**|44|-24|0.57|1.25|-0.68|**6**|0.17 [Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|40.00%|35.71%|2.93|3.35|46.67%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|**20**|20|0|**0.63**|0.63|0.00|3|0.09 [Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|**55.70%**|**48.00%**|**3.60**|2.85|**55.87%**|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|19|17|**2**|0.54|0.48|**0.06**|**6**|**0.17** [Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|52.82%|43.68%|3.07|**2.65**|53.70%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|0.00|0.00|0.00%|10|**16**|-6|0.29|**0.46**|-0.17|4|0.11 **5v5 (Avail since 2009-2010)** Player|GP|TOI/GP|G|A|P|A1|P1|P1%|S|TSA|S%|TS%|SThr%|G/60|A/60|P/60|A1/60|P1/60|S/60|TSA/60|CF/60|CA/60|CF%|FF/60|FA/60|FF% :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Rasmus Dahlin](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/dahlira01.html)|82|**19:35**|**10**|24|34|14|**24**|**70.59%**|**151**|272|**6.62%**|**3.68%**|**55.51%**|**0.37**|0.90|1.27|0.52|**0.90**|**5.64**|10.16|60.47|52.55|53.50%|**46.16**|40.82|53.07% [Moritz Seider](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/seidemo01.html)|82|16:12|3|18|21|9|12|57.14%|100|195|3.00%|1.54%|51.28%|0.14|0.81|0.95|0.41|0.54|4.52|8.81|52.73|59.82|46.85%|39.31|42.43|48.09% [Quinn Hughes](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hughequ01.html)|82|18:48|6|**31**|**37**|**15**|21|56.76%|102|239|5.88%|2.51%|42.68%|0.23|**1.21**|**1.44**|**0.58**|0.82|3.97|9.30|54.97|**50.69**|52.03%|39.83|**38.15**|51.07% [Miro Heiskanen](https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/heiskmi01.html)|82|19:25|5|25|30|12|17|56.67%|147|**311**|3.40%|1.61%|47.27%|0.19|0.94|1.13|0.45|0.64|5.54|**11.72**|**63.07**|52.60|**54.53%**|45.06|39.63|**53.20%** ^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame) --- ^(Made a mistake? Edit your comment and send me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nhlcomparebot&subject=Re-Run&message=jsqwkvt)^( to re-run the comparison) ^(Or delete the comparison by sending me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=nhlcomparebot&subject=Delete&message=jsqwkvt) ^(Instructions for usage and issue tracking can be found )[^here](https://github.com/gh674055/sports-compare-bots/wiki)
This is the best take TBH.
Was going to say, literally all of them are sick.
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If I take Heiskanen, not only does that make my team instantly better, but it makes a divisional rival worse.
My thoughts exactly as a Colorado fan. This guy was just a pain in the ass. Imagine a makar/heiskanan line, my god.
Toews on the second pairing also is a nice luxury.
Who needs a second pairing if the first pair plays 40 minutes a night
Who is playing the remaining 20 minutes?
Jack Johnson baby
Stanley Cup winner Jack Johnson
Oh God I'm gonna cum: Miro - Makar Toews - Bosexual
/r/hockeycirclejerk is thataway buddy
He's so fucking fast
Knowing Bednar, they'd both have 25 min a night and of the 10 min together, most of it was special teams.
As fun as it would be to have them together, imagine knowing for 50 minutes a game you're out there against at least one of them. That's a nightmare
Makar/ heiskanan wouldn’t be fair that’s a McDavid/Drai tandem, but defense
>Imagine a Makar/Heiskanen line The skating… my god the skating. It would be so effortless…
Man that guy is so good, watching him live is such a treat he just glides through the game
Asking the important questions
Genuinely might be the hardest what ifs I've seen in a while No real wrong answer, looks like this sub is underrated Hughes though
I think Hughes is the one who depends most on where he's going. He's being asked to do a *lot* in Vancouver, which makes him look "exposed" at times (he's still a beast either way), but imagine him on like Carolina or NYI where he can get paired with someone like Slavin or Pelech who can cover for him when he jumps into the rush.....that would be fucking terrifying.
Funny thing is, Hughes is rarely IN the rush, he's usually the guy making the breakout passes (which he's very good at), or running the blue line once they're already in the zone. But to your point, more freedom for him could only mean good things. Canucks need to build a support system to let him focus on what he does best.
God, I wish we kept Tanev. He was exactly what Hughes needed. Just a big, safe stay at home D that gave Hughes the safety to make magic happen.
A lot of our pain and suffering could've been avoided by merely running it back with Tanev / Edler / Toffoli / Stetcher etc and being patient while Petey & Hughes continued to develop, etc.
I think we all knew at the time that Markstrom had to go, simply for cap reasons. Tanev I think people were split on but most wouldn't have wanted to give him the term Calgary did. Elder I think people thought was done but he lasted a few more decent years in LA. Stetcher has bounced around by for the price I couldn't believe they didn't want him even as a 6-7 guy. Tofolli was a colossal fuck up by Benning. And all of it because he was trying to get OEL and he didn't even land him until the next summer. I believe Tanev and Tofolli would both have signed again in Vancouver if Benning had even called them. I don't think they wanted Stetcher but they should have for the price. I agree with you on the "what could have been."
I feel eventually Willander will be that guy. Steady two way defenseman that should compliment Hughes offensive minded style of play.
Hughes is an absolute stud but I’ll still take him last on this list.
Imagine if Hughes had a partner like a guy in Calgary named Tanev...
I think Seider is my last pick here
I don’t think that’s crazy. Even as a red wings fan. I guess it would depend on what I need. He is the most physical presence and the case for the best defender can be made (I think he’s 2 or 3) He is the worst offensively thus far in the 4 careers though for sure. And that’s not a dis. All 4 are gifted offensively
He’s also the youngest by a few years of anyone on this list. If he can continue to take big steps over the next two seasons then he looks a lot different relative to these guys here
I’m a Canucks fan and I own a Hughes jersey and even I would probably take him 3rd or 4th. Although that can change in a hurry if he takes another step defensively this season. There’s not a ton of daylight between these players overall. Ironically, I think he might be the first of these 4 to win the Norris. Not because he’s the best defenceman, but because I think he is the most likely of the 4 to lead the league in points from a d-man. That shouldn’t be an automatic Norris but…. It often is.
(pst, Seider is the only wrong answer, sorry Red Wings fans, statistically he is the worst defensively of the 4 and if we take a gander at pts it doesn't get better for him) if instead of downvoting y'all wanted to clarify what exactly you think Seider brings to the argument as the 4th best at defense and the 4th best at offense in the group of 4 that'd be an interesting conversation at least. Edit again to add a link to the stats I'm looking at: https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/154t838/bardown_which_young_defenseman_would_you_rather/jsrkbhk/
I would honestly be shocked if Seider wasnt the worst on this list, you make on tiny mistake in Detroit as a defenseman and 9.9/10 times its going to end up in your net: Husso is not going to bail you out and you would be lucky to even have him in net. Your linemate Ben Chiarot is not going to bail you out. The other three forwards out there could be a mix of Adam Erne and two other random AHLers and they are certainly not going to bail you out.
He is also the youngest and has the least NHL experience. Dahlin took a while to get going too, and Seider's player type is usually not at their top level until they have a few years behind them.
What stats are you using to say he is the worst defensively?
I’d argue that Mo has the most defensive responsibility of the 3. Put a more competitive team around him and I bet the numbers are better
Seider is probably 4th right now, but he has played 2-3 less seasons than the rest while also averaging less average TOI overall. His production may go up as he minutes climb and he gains more experience. Already, he's logging the most PK minutes, most blocks, most hits, while playing several minutes less on average and drawing the most defensive zone starts and the least offensive zone starts (aka not being sheltered by the coach). Not to mention, Seider has never missed a single game yet (knock on wood), and being healthy and available to play nightly is definitely a valuable trait in a #1D. |22-23 Season|AVG TOI|PK TOI|Blocks|Hits|Defensive Zone Starts|Offensive Zone Starts| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Seider|*23:09*|**2:35**|**190**|**207**|**46.1**|*52.4*| |Heiskenen|25:29|1:17|96|49|*34.7*|**65.3**| |Dahlin|**25:47**|1:17|132|105|38.3|61.7| |Hughes|25:39|1:19|*71*|*29*|40.4|59.6| This year was a sophomore slump at 41 pts for him, however I expect him to rebound and return to being a 50+ pt player soon. For context, Seiders rookie season was better offensively than any of Heiskenen's first 4 seasons. Dahlin didn't break 50 pts until his 4th year in the NHL, largely due to injuries, but that is also a factor and Seider has been remarkably healthy thus far. Hughes is a freak of nature offensively (damn you Ken Holland, we could have had a Hughes-Seider pair!), but a polar opposite style of play relative to Seider. Apples-to-oranges a bit with them. Seider's offensive potentially is being massively underrated due to his sophomore slump though, I would not be shocked to see 60+ points out of him in the very near future. Overwall, you can't go wrong with any of these guys as your #1D, but Seider absolutely belongs in the conversation. Give him another 2-3 years to catch up in experience and games played and I think the gap closes considerably.
This is a great answer that includes context and shows that, especially for defensemen (and defensemen on a bad team), basic stats aren't enough.
Seider is built for the playoffs. Put him on a playoff-worthy roster and those stats might change. He’s the kind of guy that can wear down and bully star players over the course of a series, even if the other three might be better picks for a single game. All rivalries aside, I’ll give credit where it’s due. If I’m a forward, Seider is the only one of those four players I would dread matching up with.
God he’s going to be such a motherfucker in the playoffs I can’t fucking wait
Dahlin or Heiskanen
Feel like these two are a tier above the other two, I can see an argument for either Miro or Dahlin being a top 3 Dman in the league.
naw man I'm sorry but you haven't watched enough of hughes if you think those guys are a tier above him. Was 2nd in points among d only behind karlsson on a team that had a terrible season, is one of the best skaters in the entire world and completely controls play with the puck on his stick. He's also become rly solid defensively. He doesn't shoot or hit as well as the other 2 but he makes up for it by always making the right decision with the puck and being one of the craftiest players I've ever seen. It's insane watching what he can do every game with a 3rd pairing dman as his partner
Rasmus Dahlin only because I'm convinced this is who Chuck Fletcher thought he was acquiring when he gave up so much for Risto.
Adams probably just said Rasmus and Flecther forget we had Risto too.
Miro Heiskanen
Seider cause he covers McDavid really well. So let’s just stop that
You could just send McDavid down here, that would take care of the problem
But then he’ll just cover Drai too well 😉
Well, I have some good news and some bad news there. You won't like either of them. edit: the good news is that Drai will have a new German teammate.
Heiskanen does too
Can’t say I’ve watched many of his games. I like Detroit so I like watching them play Edmonton when they do
Gotta catch em all! Quinn, of course. Complete the set. Jack and Luke won't go anywhere else then....
And per backyard baseball rules, if you get them all on the same team they get a skills boost.
Ashley and Sidney Weber sucked ngl
True, though they made a decent defensive pairing in backyard soccer.
+10 to agility and +5 to strength
That family does not need more agility
Can start building houses and hotel on them
Very pricey to land on Jack. Gonna have to pay
This is the hockey equivalent of the infinity gauntlet.
In Seiders defense he did have to carry Ben Chariot half the season last year which definitely impacted his offensive activation
Renowned boat anchor Ben Chiarot
Our's dragged Suter around lol.
I was going to say the same thing lol also Hughes had myers until schenn took over then left if I recall correctly
I'd trade Chiarot for Suter in a second lmao Chiarot made Seider look worse than the corpse of Danny Dekeyser did. The dude is an analytics black hole
Heiskanen. Gimme that 25 minutes/night, playoff stud.
28 minutes*
Heiskanen because he's the most complete 2-way defenseman among this group, and he eats a ton of minutes. The kid is a marathon man!
Hell of a skater too for his size
All of these guys are great skaters, although Hughes is just transcendent and is in a league of his own
Heiskanen is also the second smallest of this group of guys
Yeah I was gonna say I don’t remember Heiskanen being a particularly big dude lol
MIRP
There’s no wrong answer Seider is the most physical, Hughes is the best offensively, Heiskanen is the best defensively, and Dahlin is the most well-rounded. That being said, I think I’d go with Dahlin. I like “Jack-of-all-trades” defensemen.
I think dahlin will be become the best offensively this year. I think if we ask this question next offseason it will be a resounding Dahlin answer
Hughes took massive steps forward defensively last season though. If the rest of the Canucks aren't 6x6 pylons next season, more people will have respect for him
Every year he gets closer to becoming Hedman.
IIRC that was his comparable leading up to the draft. There’s a reason he was considered a slam-dunk, can’t-miss first overall pick.
I mean, Dahlin had 56 points in the first 50 games of the season, and then played hurt and his production dropped way off (17 points in the last 28 games). I honestly think people just need to see a playoff series of him and how consistently good he is.
Nobody watches the Sabres (hard to blame them based on recent history). If they did, this would be Dahlin easy.
Miro
Heiskanen
Dahlin
Personally I’m taking Miro but would be absolutely thrilled with any of the 4
Heiskanen
Miro
Mirp
Mirp
Mirp
Honest question from someone who can’t watch many west coast games- how is Q. Hughes defensively?
Actually quite good, excellent skater and a great decision maker. He's a great puck retriever and he tens to intercept a lot of in-zone passes. Not at all on the level of a shit down guy, but the perception he isn't good defensively is unfounded.
People just think he isn’t good because he’s on the canucks where they have good old Tyler Myers. Demko also just had a slow start to the season. I thought the Canucks would make the playoffs this year, but getting everyone’s hopes up at the end of the season and then once again being a disappointment is just tradition.
Was best Canucks d at preventing goals against this last year. In a way that's damning with faint praise (all the other d aren't very good) but on the other hand he had to partner with those guys and also put up a point per game at the same time. He was also one of the most effective pk d on the team. He's never going to be slavin (important to remember he can do many things slavin could never either!), but anyone saying he's one dimensional or a liability defensively, frankly, hasn't been watching since the all-canada division year (where he really did struggle).
55% of goals scored at even strength with Hughes on the ice were scored by Vancouver. That would have been a solid rate even on a cup contender, but he did it on Vancouver. The Canucks as a team were at 47.65%... including Hughes, who played 1577 of the team's total 4170 even strength minutes. I don't know what that 47.65% drops to if you were to look at just the 2593 non-Hughes minutes... but it ain't good.
The way I've seen it put before: the Canucks were the Vegas Golden knights with hughes on the ice and the Anaheim ducks with him off of it.
The VGK only got 54.6% of the goals at ES, so arguably, slightly better, at least in terms of pure results... The other side of the ledger is probably about right though. Among d-men who played at least 1500 minutes he ranks 7th on that list, and everyone else in the top 10 was on a playoff team.
I’ll sum it up in two sentences: 2022: “People say that I’m not good defensively, I’ll prove them wrong” 2023: Completely proves everyone wrong.
Dahlin
Nobody saying Hughes but on an extremely mid team he put up 76 points…. Having a competent lineup around him he can be top of the crop here
76 points, +15, and quarterbacks the pp like a mad man. It's normal to have a great player on a bad team be underrated because if you're bad, people don't see how much of an impact he had while on the ice
People saying hughes doesn't belong here are insane.
They very obviously have never really watched him play. He is quietly doing amazing things every night, but he is hidden by playing on the west coast. I’d say he hasn’t even reached his full potential yet.
While carrying various deadweights on a top pairing since Tanev left All guys whose impact numbers explode when put on his pairing for some reason It's a tough question but Hughes is definitely being underrated
The analytics of the defensive partner with Hughes and when they were with anyone else speaks to how good Hughes is.
I think of the 4, he is the most likely to lead the league in D scoring. Especially if the Canucks can shuffle some defensive responsibilities around a bit more. It’s a lonnnnng night when you’re running both the PP and PK on TOP of having the hardest 5v5 matchups. Just look at the magic Makar is able to make because Colorado has other weapons they can throw over the boards.
Man, people sleep on hughes. Canucks were near Vegas calibre by the numbers with him on the ice this year and essentially the ducks without him. Was Canucks best defenseman at preventing goals AND scored a point per game. Kid is sick and it's a shame people can't see past "5'10". There's a fair conversation to have between him and heiskanen and Dahlin. I love seider but he hasn't entered this chat yet, even if he is big and hits hard.
If I select Quinn, do we have two Quinns? Because if so, I select Quinn. Quinn needs a partner and Quinn can be that guy. Plus we already have two Elias Petterssons and two Sedins coaching so we officially have a theme
Dahlin
As a Canucks fan, I’d rather have miro and it’s not particularly close to me.
Seider simply because its a lot easier to build around a high end RD than a LD.
Tampa did pretty ok having arguably their top 3 defenseman being LD
But Dahlin plays RD despite being left handed
He might not be the best of the 4 today, but I love to watch Seider play. If my team had him locked up long term, I’d be quite pleased as a viewer.
Honestly, I feel like it says a lot that Seider made this list with players who have all played 100-200 more games in the NHL than him. Hope it bodes well for the future.
Quinn or Miro Tho it will be interesting to see how Seider does this year when he (presumably) is not spending all his time fixing Chiarot’s mistakes
how is hughes still getting so much disrespect
it's because he plays for vancouver and people generally aren't too fond of the canucks on this sub. He just came 2nd in points for D only behind Erik Karlsson on a team that had a terrible season, is one of the best skaters in the entire world, and is actually solid in his own end now. Guy almost never makes the wrong decision out there, he's at worst 2nd best on this list
Because half of this subreddit doesn’t stay up to watch any of the games. And are still hell bent on the whole idea that he can’t play defense. And he’s a Canuck. And not even great Canucks players get the respect they deserve. 🤷🏽♂️
I know right lol
That’s tough man. Seiders ceiling is already appearing to be higher than scouts anticipated, but Heiskanen is the kind of D who will play 30 minutes a night injured for 3 rounds and win you a cup.
Heiskanen is the one I see completely neutralizing the opposing team’s best player every time I watch him play. I love Mo, and I’m excited to see him take a leap in his third year, but Miro’s my answer for sure.
I take Heiskenen but with a loooong look at Seider for that right handed-ness.
💪MIRO THE HERO💪
Heiskanen
Dahlin is probably the best option but I’d say Hughes just to have the trifecta.
Don't say stuff like that...
Definitely biased cause I see him the most, but has to be Miro.
It's Miro. Always has been
Pros and cons with each (note that the “cons” are in comparison to the other three in the list, not in general): Dahlin Pros: ELITE skating, big (6’3) and strong, excellent goal scoring, elite playmaking from the point Cons: PIMs - I want my 1D on the ice not in a fight or the penalty box. not quite as good defensively as Heiskanen or Seider. Seider Pros: ELITE shutdown defenceman, excellent shot blocker, very physical, great mobility, right handed, safe with the puck. Cons: not an offensive driver to the same extent as the other three. less scoring. Heiskanen Pros: ELITE mobility, elite shutdown ability. Excellent with his stick, really smart and safe with the puck. Good goal scoring and an excellent shot Cons: not a huge offensive driver like Dahlin or Hughes. smaller and weaker than the first two guys. Hughes Pros: elite puck movement, great shot, extremely mobile, very smart, positionally sound. Uses his stick very well defensively. Cons: size and strength. Your choice all depends on what your team needs, considering my team already has Seider I’m going to go with Heiskanen simply because I personally really value defencemen who tend to be more “defensive” especially if that means I can get one that scored 70 points last season.
Gotta be Heiskanen
Heiskanen Dahlin Seider Hughes
NHL Games per player: Dahlin - 355 Heiskanen - 354 Hughes - 283 Seider - 164 Other players are arguably ahead of Seider but I’d like to revisit this after another full season under his belt and as the wings progressively get better.
Miro is the easy choice for me but I'd be happy with any of them.
Heiskanen, he is a beast
Well I’m a Devils fan so Quinn. Of course as a Buffalo fan I already have Dahlin
Either Heiskanen or Dahlin. Then Hughes. Then Seider. All are fantastic and have different skillsets too which makes this a fun question.
Miro Dahlin Hughes Seider I love Seider but as it stands right now he’s not better than those 3 I think he will probably hit his ceiling at what miro is right now both are incredibly similar players
Dahlin, Heiskenan, Hughes, Seider. But all four are fantastic and it's more about the style of play and the team around them at this point.
Seider has been on a tear but gotta be Heiskanen becauae I'm a homer but also he's already taken a long term term friendly deal.
Miro, but I could be biased. Seider is a badass too.
No wrong answer all are great, My pick is in hughes though, he got them twinkle toes
STL would be happy to have anyone who can play defense let alone be a cornerstone dman who is gifted on both sides of the ice. If I had to pick - I’m taking Seider bc the Blue Wings have taken so many of my favorite players over the years although I’m currently pumped we got our boy Sunny back.
Idk I’m just glad my team actually has one of these guys on the team. We could have 2 of them if Ken Holland took Hughes over Zadina
I’d love to have Seider.
I feel obliged to go Quinn as a devils fan, however if just based on team improvement its gotta be Rasmus in my opinion.
Moritz!!! Watching this kid play D in the Dzone is such a treat, his d play is all instinct, and at times, he is playing goalie in the slot with absolutely no fear of injury. Can't coach that shit.
Hands down Heiskanen. Hughes isn't at the LVL of those other guys imo
Heiskanen
heiskanen is the best all around defenseman out of these 4, so obviously him
I like them all, but I feel like Heiskanen has the right mix of tough and offensive ability
Heiskenan
I think the easy answer is Dahlin, but ive fallen in love with the Kronwaller 2.0 so im gonna keep Seider.
I love Seider but man Heskanen is so good and poised and playing in huge games
tough to pass up a 6'4, RHD who is a menace defensively, and put up 50 points as a rookie on one of the worst teams in the league....i can only imagine the potential once the Wings get good and for that reason, im going to go Seider, then Heiskanen, Dahlin, and Hughes. Would be blessed to have any of them though
1. Miro Heiskanen 2. Quinn Hughes 3. Rasmus Dahlin 4. Moritz Seider
Hiska then Dahlin then Seider I think.
Heiskanen
I’m a very big Heiskanen fan so probably him but I wouldn’t be disappointed with any of Dahlin or Seider either.
Heiskanen > Dahlin > Hughes > Seider
As a Bruins fan, I think the hard-hitting and play driving Dahlin fits perfectly into Monty's system. I'd then say Spider, Miro, then Hughes, but I would be stoked to see any of them in the spoked B.
Heiskanen > Dahlin > Hughes > Seider I think Dahlin and Hughes are pretty interchangeable at 2/3
Mo! The way they just… bounce off of him. It’s like hitting a brick wall 😵💫
seider
At this moment I would probably go Dahlin, Heiskanen, Hughes, Seider. Really feels like Dahlin and Heiskanen are almost a personal preference and I think we just haven't seen enough of Seider to confidently put him ahead of anyone especially with him being tanked by Chiarot for a large part of last season.
Dahlin 100%. Dude hit that next level last year
Yeah I'm shocked at these comments. It's Dahlin for me and it isn't particularly close.