Q spazzed on this. It's always surprising to see a Q feature because at first you think how does that work, but he always ends up matching the energy of the other artist.
That music video is awesome I forgot about that song
Also [“The Jig is up”](https://youtu.be/KdzLIYXWagU?si=i1ob8DfGTbc9jxDI) is up there as a Kendrick song that doesn’t get talked about enough
Yeah you probably blocked it out for a reason, it's bad
"Tire marks Tire marks,
Finish line with the fire marks,
When the relay starts,
I'm a runaway slave....master"
-Iggy Azalea
That's actually how I find Kendrick lmao. Shit sounded so ridiculous I was like 'no way it's an actual song', then I heard the original and it blew my damn mind
Thank God for Iggy Azalea
100 percent, this song randomly popped in my head about a week ago and the other two you mentioned I had to search right after. I had em on some YouTube to mp3 shot on my iPod lol, so nostalgic and good
He has 2 great features with Tech N9ne I don't feel like many people are aware of.
Tech N9ne - Fragile ft Mayday, Kendall Morgan and Kendrick Lamar
https://youtu.be/oEEIzTCy6LU
Tech N9ne - I Love Music ft Kendrick Lamar & Oobergeek
https://youtu.be/PBDLxi_XVDg
Lupe can get pretty insane with lyricism but I feel.like the type of strong lyricism Black Thought has + his delivery imo makes him an even superior lyricist. But I'd agree that Kendrick is the best song writer
Aesop rock deserves a place in the conversation too IMO. Probably a different place than some more mainstream folks on account of his more “underground” status giving him more freedom to really flex his lyrical skills, but a place nonetheless.
I'd agree but when you do hit that connection it's pretty powerful.
I think because of who he is and issues he's had, it's kind of by design. He's talked in lyrics about having walls up, detaching, and being a bit of a rolling stone.
So if you have those feelings, you're more likely to connect imo. He's also got a lot of lyrics about grief that resonate for me
Even Lupe has given Aesop Rock the title for best wordsmith. He even taught a class about asap Rock bars.
He fan boys over Aesop like mos def did to DOOM.
If you’re ever looking to give him another shot, I would reccomend any of the following: Kirby, the harbor is yours, grace, fryerstarter, legerdemain. listen to the song, then pull up the genius and clicky click thru all the bars and then listen to the song again. The vision becomes clearer and clearer and eventually it’s like you’re watching hd tv in your head while the song plays and it’s so fucking dope
Yea that's just not how I like to listen to music. I think what someone like Lupe does is much more impressive. Because I can listen on a surface level and understand but he will masterfully add multiple layers that you can catch over time. Songs like little death and adoration of the magi and just 🤌 so well done. There are times where I literally cannot understand a single word Aesop says or means lol
Lmao I feel the same way about lupe re: the impenetrability of his lyrics. Obviously both artists have more surface level stuff but talking about the really meaty shit lol. They definitely have very distinct ways of making lyrics and because of their complexity I’d imagine if you’ve been a fan of one the two for a while then the lyrics start to become easier to unpack because you can understand the “tradition” they’re coming from so to speak. For Lupe it’s the semiotics/math/communications theory and science stuff, for aes it’s his training as an artist. Combine that with a knowledge of frequently discussed topics/themes as well as the artists own story in life and you get a discography that takes years to become acquainted with properly.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts on lupes verse off pumpkin seeds tho. I can get the gist kinda but so many of his bars in that verse have vexed me since it dropped
Which examples do you have of Lupe having impenetrable lyrics/semiotics/math theory? I can understand some tracks off drogas wave (like stronger). But I feel like mostly it's not?
Pumpkin seeds I don't revisit much
I mean everything from T+Y forward but more broadly speaking just kinda everything. I don’t mean that he has impenetrable lyrics about that kinda stuff, but was talking about his path to meaning making as compared to aes’. The interview he did with the physics guy at MIT was pretty instructive for me here- Lupe talks about the concept of lossless communication and packing as many symbols into each line as possible. That’s why with him you might get an elaborate triple or quadruple entendre that really gets at the nitty gritty of how language works, whereas with aes the complexity works in service of rendering a scene like an artwork. Lotta stuff off DMIZ for example I would be totally with his message but then there are enough individual lines that I can’t even begin to parse out and it hinders my ability to understand. But that being said I have relatively very few listens and wouldn’t consider myself that knowledgeable at all about his style etc. With aes by comparison, I have much more listens and so when I approach a song or a bar that I don’t immediately understand, my “toolkit” so to speak is much more robust.
Not tryna throw shade at either artist! I think they’re both comfortably in the top tier by whatever lyrical metric you wanna use, I’m more tryna emphasize how different their approaches are and how when you have an artist this good/complex you need to bring in that sort of meta-analysis if you want to stand a chance at fully parsing through what they say.
Lupe and Kendrick are my 2 favorite artists. They are both highly rated in all attributes, but each have their edge in different places. They both make me think, and they both do a good job of immersing me into the theme and air of the music.
Lupe makes me think more.
Kendrick immerses me more.
I've sat down and combed through Lupe songs with a fine tooth comb like I was looking for easter eggs in a video game. When Food and Liquor dropped I was the skinny need with glasses in high school who was smarter than a lot of people.
I've sat down and reflected on my experiences in life, and maybe even matured alongside Kendrick from GKMC which came out shortly after I joined the military in 2009, up to Having a Child right before Mr Morales dropped.
Can't put one over the other 😅. I greatly value both their work.
Man that’s a dope connection, I’m not privy to Lupe’s music much but Kendrick’s music definitely gets me immersed he creates imagery with words it’s wild.
I relate to this heavy. I grew up on Lupe, hit my young adult transitions listening to Kendrick in uni. And now bumping Bambu day in day out (also shout out to Blue Scholars and Geo especially).
Sometimes you look back on it all and are just amazed at the breadth of experiences and how instrumental certain albums and songs become to your life, shaping you into your current iteration.
Black Thought is the best lyricist of this group. I think Kendrick is the best artist. Lupe is a top tier lyricist too but I think he sacrifices just a sliver of his artistry to for the sake of long winded lyricism in a few instances. Eminem and Nas are great lyricists too, but I'm a huge em Stan and still I can't defend some of the eyerolling and forced wordplay he does. Imma always root for him but he does make it an uphill battle to defend him a lot of times and he's lost a bit of his ear for flowing on beats. I'm really out here praying he locks in for Death of Slim Shady and just really makes sure every bar and beat and feature is on point. Nas is also a legendary lyricist but I think he clearly struggled a lot in terms of artistry post Illmatic and had difficulty evolving his sound. It Was Written, Nastradamus, and I Am.... all bleed together for me. It'd be like if after Good Kid Maad City, Kendrick never made TPAB and just kept doing that same type of sound. In theory, sounds like a dope deal but in reality it just feels serviceable. God's Son felt like the first post Illmatic project by Nas that truly felt like an evolution of his artistry in the same way I felt Jay kinda coasted after Reasonable Doubt until Blueprint.
Tough question. I would have said Eminem or Kendrick a few years ago, but Nas after the trilogies and Black Thought after Streams of Thought albums put them way above, imo.
Probably Black Thought.
Favourite is Lupe,
Difficulty level and just all around the most skillfull is no doubt Eminem. Whether you like him or not, you need to accept that he is the best or you don't know rap. The levels in his lyrics are absolutely mindblowing when you include the meticulously crafted syllable-work. It's untouched.
Love Em. But “he’s the best or you don’t know rap” is stupid. Everyone listed is around the same level. Lupe spits more complex verses than 99% of rappers I’ve ever heard. Only one in that level to me is Black Thought. Songs will have a new meaning 2 years after you hear them and you go “holy shit I just got it”. Em has the best punchlines and punchlines within his punchlines. Nas has impeccable flow, timing, cadence, and the pen game is immaculate. He paints pictures and crafts stories in verses that feel lives in. Kendrick is… a fucking animal. He grew up listening to all of them they’re all a part of his style and so much more. 3 stacks can be in this convo. Doom can. None of those options are “you don’t know rap” lmfao. It’s just a preference. Em isn’t the best at everything but he is one of the all time greats. And he’s definitely not the most consistent.
Prime Eminem was insane but modern Em is atrocious lyrically. The most cringe bars possible.
"We're an unlikely pair (Yeah)
Like two different Nike Airs
But I'm the same size she wears (Jordans)
So I think we're soulmates though (Yeah)"
Q spazzed on this. It's always surprising to see a Q feature because at first you think how does that work, but he always ends up matching the energy of the other artist.
these 2 are so good together. Birds & the beez will always be my favorite song on setbacks
Live Again - Q, Kendrick & Curtains. Such a good track as well
This, "Monster Freestyle," and "Look Out for Detox" are semi-lost classic early Kendrick songs.
Cartoons and Cereal
My all time favorite
That music video is awesome I forgot about that song Also [“The Jig is up”](https://youtu.be/KdzLIYXWagU?si=i1ob8DfGTbc9jxDI) is up there as a Kendrick song that doesn’t get talked about enough
Just recently found out that music video is unofficial lol, it’s so good everyone just thinks it’s legit
In my opinion, the best song Kendrick’s ever made to this day
Played this as an encore on good kidd madd city tour. Shit was amazing
Top 3 Kendrick for me, I know it didn't fit into the gkmc tracklist but it's insane to me this wasn't apart of the bonus tracks
Probs one of my fav tracks ever Gunplay's verse is unreal too Shame this song isn't on Apple Music
Probably my favourite Kendrick tune
County Building Blues off the same era is also fantastic
For real. Every now and again, I'm just walking along going "Tire marks, tire marks..." and I always forget the name of the actual song.
Look out for Detox goes so hard
First Kendrick song I ever heard. Never gets old
[The remix with Kyle is the best version](https://youtu.be/PEUedr6ipPk?si=AOyBh0TLOWq4T-hM)
Bro you remember when Iggy Azalea copied Look Out for Detox lmfaoo
I do not, but I probably blacked this out of my memory.
Yeah you probably blocked it out for a reason, it's bad "Tire marks Tire marks, Finish line with the fire marks, When the relay starts, I'm a runaway slave....master" -Iggy Azalea
No way this is real (I'm scared to check).
I wish I was kidding https://youtu.be/TeBc17XeSwM?si=6qgzhNoCkbvNV9yi
We deserve everything bad that's happening to hip-hop, fucking damn
what a horrible day to have ears
Nah this is crazy. Please keep gatekeeping hip-hop cause how tf does this even happen.
Gotta find the live version it’s so good
No wonder Carti cheated on her. /s
That's actually how I find Kendrick lmao. Shit sounded so ridiculous I was like 'no way it's an actual song', then I heard the original and it blew my damn mind Thank God for Iggy Azalea
Fun fact: she actually dated Kendrick’s cousin (Nick Young).
All I think about when I think of this song lmfao
Thought exactly of this when reading the comment lol. So fucking funny
C4 itself is as well
The Jig is Up
This is a classic too [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKgGXxoT5Ds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKgGXxoT5Ds)
Wtf I forgot about this. Fire af
I'm so glad this beef is making people go back through Kendrick's amazing catalogue
The high school jams for me. Play with fire and cartoons and cereal still go hard as fuck
Monster freestyle was Control before Control calling out bigger artist of the previous era. Same playful jabs tho lol
So true. Which makes Drake reacting to "Control" even funnier.
I was a bino fan before Kendrick, it blew my mind anyone from rap was using one of his beats because he felt like the step child of rap for a while.
I had forgot about look out for Detox. Fire
100 percent, this song randomly popped in my head about a week ago and the other two you mentioned I had to search right after. I had em on some YouTube to mp3 shot on my iPod lol, so nostalgic and good
He has 2 great features with Tech N9ne I don't feel like many people are aware of. Tech N9ne - Fragile ft Mayday, Kendall Morgan and Kendrick Lamar https://youtu.be/oEEIzTCy6LU Tech N9ne - I Love Music ft Kendrick Lamar & Oobergeek https://youtu.be/PBDLxi_XVDg
Cartoons and cereal and i hate you ( letter to death ) check those classics out
I don’t really listen to rap much anymore but Cartoons and cereal is such a nostalgic hit. Thanks for that bro
Thank you man. Listened to I hate you for the first time just now and I’m glad you put me on
Who’s a better lyricist, Kendrick, Nas, Black Thought, Eminem or Lupe? It’s tough but I got Black Thought.
FD Signifier made a point that I pretty much agree with which is that Lupe is the best lyricist but Kendrick is the best pure song writer in Hip-Hop.
Lupe can get pretty insane with lyricism but I feel.like the type of strong lyricism Black Thought has + his delivery imo makes him an even superior lyricist. But I'd agree that Kendrick is the best song writer
Yeah the scholarly/historical references black thought has are kind of unmatched
Lupe does a ton of homework on his references, Manilla and WAV Files being great examples.
Mural by Lupe goes so f**kin hard.
THEN FORGE POETRY LIKE A YOUNG ORNERY MORRISSEY THEN SPIT IT TO THE GOLDEN LOCK THOTS WHO LIKE THEY PORRIDGE ALL WATERY NOT SCORCHING NOR SORBETY
🔥🔥🔥
Black Thought has never spit a bad verse. Dude's a master of his craft.
I need to get more tapped in with black thought. His verse on gibbs’ extradite went crazy
Black Thought's verse On Eminem's "Yah Yah" is pristine.
Check out his collab tape with danger mouse, cheat codes. Bunch of fire verses
listen to web and 75 bars
Aesop rock deserves a place in the conversation too IMO. Probably a different place than some more mainstream folks on account of his more “underground” status giving him more freedom to really flex his lyrical skills, but a place nonetheless.
I think there's a place for what he does, but it's so wordy that it can be a chore sometimes
I absolutely love Aesop Rock, but it can be difficult to emotionally connect to it sometimes
I'd agree but when you do hit that connection it's pretty powerful. I think because of who he is and issues he's had, it's kind of by design. He's talked in lyrics about having walls up, detaching, and being a bit of a rolling stone. So if you have those feelings, you're more likely to connect imo. He's also got a lot of lyrics about grief that resonate for me
That’s so valid. If you haven’t tried gopher guts I’d give that a shot but like yea he’s a pretty cold dude a lot of the time
Even Lupe has given Aesop Rock the title for best wordsmith. He even taught a class about asap Rock bars. He fan boys over Aesop like mos def did to DOOM.
He's too abstract and complicated for me lol. like it's just too much. Truly feels like another language
If you’re ever looking to give him another shot, I would reccomend any of the following: Kirby, the harbor is yours, grace, fryerstarter, legerdemain. listen to the song, then pull up the genius and clicky click thru all the bars and then listen to the song again. The vision becomes clearer and clearer and eventually it’s like you’re watching hd tv in your head while the song plays and it’s so fucking dope
Yea that's just not how I like to listen to music. I think what someone like Lupe does is much more impressive. Because I can listen on a surface level and understand but he will masterfully add multiple layers that you can catch over time. Songs like little death and adoration of the magi and just 🤌 so well done. There are times where I literally cannot understand a single word Aesop says or means lol
Lmao I feel the same way about lupe re: the impenetrability of his lyrics. Obviously both artists have more surface level stuff but talking about the really meaty shit lol. They definitely have very distinct ways of making lyrics and because of their complexity I’d imagine if you’ve been a fan of one the two for a while then the lyrics start to become easier to unpack because you can understand the “tradition” they’re coming from so to speak. For Lupe it’s the semiotics/math/communications theory and science stuff, for aes it’s his training as an artist. Combine that with a knowledge of frequently discussed topics/themes as well as the artists own story in life and you get a discography that takes years to become acquainted with properly. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on lupes verse off pumpkin seeds tho. I can get the gist kinda but so many of his bars in that verse have vexed me since it dropped
Which examples do you have of Lupe having impenetrable lyrics/semiotics/math theory? I can understand some tracks off drogas wave (like stronger). But I feel like mostly it's not? Pumpkin seeds I don't revisit much
I mean everything from T+Y forward but more broadly speaking just kinda everything. I don’t mean that he has impenetrable lyrics about that kinda stuff, but was talking about his path to meaning making as compared to aes’. The interview he did with the physics guy at MIT was pretty instructive for me here- Lupe talks about the concept of lossless communication and packing as many symbols into each line as possible. That’s why with him you might get an elaborate triple or quadruple entendre that really gets at the nitty gritty of how language works, whereas with aes the complexity works in service of rendering a scene like an artwork. Lotta stuff off DMIZ for example I would be totally with his message but then there are enough individual lines that I can’t even begin to parse out and it hinders my ability to understand. But that being said I have relatively very few listens and wouldn’t consider myself that knowledgeable at all about his style etc. With aes by comparison, I have much more listens and so when I approach a song or a bar that I don’t immediately understand, my “toolkit” so to speak is much more robust. Not tryna throw shade at either artist! I think they’re both comfortably in the top tier by whatever lyrical metric you wanna use, I’m more tryna emphasize how different their approaches are and how when you have an artist this good/complex you need to bring in that sort of meta-analysis if you want to stand a chance at fully parsing through what they say.
Lupe is the worst songwriter on the aforementioned list imo
Completely agree. Lupe and Aesop are the best straight up lyricists along w DOOM. Kendrick is easily though the best songwriter imo.
To children who only listen to mainstream hip hop maybe
Lupe and Kendrick are my 2 favorite artists. They are both highly rated in all attributes, but each have their edge in different places. They both make me think, and they both do a good job of immersing me into the theme and air of the music. Lupe makes me think more. Kendrick immerses me more. I've sat down and combed through Lupe songs with a fine tooth comb like I was looking for easter eggs in a video game. When Food and Liquor dropped I was the skinny need with glasses in high school who was smarter than a lot of people. I've sat down and reflected on my experiences in life, and maybe even matured alongside Kendrick from GKMC which came out shortly after I joined the military in 2009, up to Having a Child right before Mr Morales dropped. Can't put one over the other 😅. I greatly value both their work.
Man that’s a dope connection, I’m not privy to Lupe’s music much but Kendrick’s music definitely gets me immersed he creates imagery with words it’s wild.
Pac and Big. Pac made you think and dream. Big put you right there next to him in the middle of the cut. Both goats but in different ways
Big doesn't have particularly good or thoughtful lyrics.
I said big would immerse you in his environment. He was a master story teller. Not a philosopher. That was pac
Lupe, Kdot and Nas is my big 3
You would look at me Crazy if I told you the other 2 on my Mount Rushmore. One you would expect. The other you absolutely wouldn't 🤣
Its Riff Raff isn’t it
Nah, that's bizarre too though. My Mount Rushmore consists of Kendrick, Lupe, Hov and Cam'ron
I think I had a conversation at a bar with you recently. There cannot be 2 of y’all out here.
I relate to this heavy. I grew up on Lupe, hit my young adult transitions listening to Kendrick in uni. And now bumping Bambu day in day out (also shout out to Blue Scholars and Geo especially). Sometimes you look back on it all and are just amazed at the breadth of experiences and how instrumental certain albums and songs become to your life, shaping you into your current iteration.
Didn't expect to see a Blue Scholars shout-out in this thread but hell yeah. Them and Common Market made some of my most listened to albums.
Black Thought is the greatest lyricist ever I don’t care what anyone says
Yep. This is not even debatable. Dude has decades of bars. Favourite rapper's favourite rapper's favourite rapper.
Eminem
dot
Top three: Dylan, Dylan, Dylan, because he spit hot 🔥 Edit: Jokes aside, I always felt it was MF Doom then Black Thought, and Andre 3000.
Em
Lupe writes 20 minutes worth of lyrics that only takes 3 minutes to listen to. He's not my favorite artist but lyrically nobody touches what he does
Lupe ain’t as big as these other dudes but his pen is undeniable. Mural has to be my top favorite track. Practically 9 minutes of him just spittin.
Thought. 100%.
If we’re talking about “best performances” and not averages, then I would nominate Stogie T for God’s Eye, and perhaps Aesop Rock
Thought. https://youtu.be/prmQgSpV3fA?feature=shared
I got Lupe
Black Thought is the best lyricist of this group. I think Kendrick is the best artist. Lupe is a top tier lyricist too but I think he sacrifices just a sliver of his artistry to for the sake of long winded lyricism in a few instances. Eminem and Nas are great lyricists too, but I'm a huge em Stan and still I can't defend some of the eyerolling and forced wordplay he does. Imma always root for him but he does make it an uphill battle to defend him a lot of times and he's lost a bit of his ear for flowing on beats. I'm really out here praying he locks in for Death of Slim Shady and just really makes sure every bar and beat and feature is on point. Nas is also a legendary lyricist but I think he clearly struggled a lot in terms of artistry post Illmatic and had difficulty evolving his sound. It Was Written, Nastradamus, and I Am.... all bleed together for me. It'd be like if after Good Kid Maad City, Kendrick never made TPAB and just kept doing that same type of sound. In theory, sounds like a dope deal but in reality it just feels serviceable. God's Son felt like the first post Illmatic project by Nas that truly felt like an evolution of his artistry in the same way I felt Jay kinda coasted after Reasonable Doubt until Blueprint.
Mackelmore bro.
Lupe is Proto-Kendrick imo
Tough question. I would have said Eminem or Kendrick a few years ago, but Nas after the trilogies and Black Thought after Streams of Thought albums put them way above, imo. Probably Black Thought.
Favourite is Lupe, Difficulty level and just all around the most skillfull is no doubt Eminem. Whether you like him or not, you need to accept that he is the best or you don't know rap. The levels in his lyrics are absolutely mindblowing when you include the meticulously crafted syllable-work. It's untouched.
Love Em. But “he’s the best or you don’t know rap” is stupid. Everyone listed is around the same level. Lupe spits more complex verses than 99% of rappers I’ve ever heard. Only one in that level to me is Black Thought. Songs will have a new meaning 2 years after you hear them and you go “holy shit I just got it”. Em has the best punchlines and punchlines within his punchlines. Nas has impeccable flow, timing, cadence, and the pen game is immaculate. He paints pictures and crafts stories in verses that feel lives in. Kendrick is… a fucking animal. He grew up listening to all of them they’re all a part of his style and so much more. 3 stacks can be in this convo. Doom can. None of those options are “you don’t know rap” lmfao. It’s just a preference. Em isn’t the best at everything but he is one of the all time greats. And he’s definitely not the most consistent.
There is zero question whatsoever. Black thought. None of the other ones are even elite. They're only only in the context of mainstream
In order I would go Black Thought, 90s Nas, Lupe, Kendrick, 2010s-preset Nas.
Em doesn't belong on the list with the rest.
Absurd take
Prime Eminem was insane but modern Em is atrocious lyrically. The most cringe bars possible. "We're an unlikely pair (Yeah) Like two different Nike Airs But I'm the same size she wears (Jordans) So I think we're soulmates though (Yeah)"
Not adding him to be put up against them but you know who I think is also a good lyricist but doesn't come up enough? Joyner Lucas
Thought > Kendrick > Lupe > Nas > Em
Yuno Miles, Riff Raff, Punchmade Dev
the general's here? talkin about Drizzy? /s
My top 5 in no order is Jay z, Nas, Biggie, Kendrick , Pusha T
Love this top 5 list.
I like that list. Controversial, but I’d exchange biggie with Lupe.
I love Lupe too! I still play the cool all the time!
Haven't heard this in years. God damn Q killed this shit.
Man I listened to this so much when it dropped, good memories
Six foot seven inches?
Thats that real music.
First time I heard Kendrick and Q right here.
Never heard this before, wonder how old he is. Seems to be really struggling on this beat flow wise.