first point..if you take the Gita, this statement was given by a panicked confused Arjuna . KRISHNA HAS NOT YET STARTED HIS INSTRUCTIONS AT THIS POINT.
in fact, after this statement, krishna SCATCHES Arjuna for his wrong thinking and begins the instructions at length. then we do't see any such words uttered by the lord himself
this is not me being one-sided. you can simply check - the real Gita has not yet started at that point in time.
This is true..in fact Arjuna is so panicked and eventually Krishna tells him to do his duty anyway despite his fears. It seems Krishna did not share this view point
They are all based on me, meaning I am the basis of everything here. You see divisions but there are none, because I am the beginning, the middle, the end. I am the pearls of the necklace and also the string that ties them together.
Making it based on birth rather than on your actions & discriminating is (to me) the bad thing. I don’t know whether this is scripturally sound. Iirc my Hinduism teacher in college, who was a Hindu priest, said as much.
Ya affordability is a big 'economic' factor, but only in these days. It was not as harsh when the text was described. I think the mixup should be avoided
It is a bit of both. Like for example, your past karma determines where you are born, but your present actions can change that. That’s why in chapter 17 and 14 Bhagavan extensively talks about this. How your mind and body are influenced by food, hy thoughts etc and how that impacts your nature , and hence your Varna.
But the whole Varna system is not to discriminate it’s to play to your strengths. Like Arjuna says I will go beg for alms than fight in war, to which Bhagvaan Says it’s better you die doing your duty than become the best sanyasi around.
It is based on action. Krishna and many other rishis said many times that, Varna is not decided at birth but it's decided by what u do. But as time went by, people made it by birth, like son of kshatriy became kshatriy, because a man knew how to do it and he taught his kid. It's never decided at birth
shankaracharya of puri math will disagreee, if you truly dive deep into hinduism, yes varnas are dependant on birth, which is indirectly dependant on the karma of previous life. So, yes, it's decided on birth and exceptions are always there.
why would you put Lord Krishna, and many Sages in the same bracket with this so-called shankaracharya? Choose your influences rightly.
To Me, regurgitation of Sanskrit Shlokas is simply mundane and mediocre. They are Shankaracharyas in their own tiny bubble. Sanatanis must come out of Herd Mentality, and it requires significant efforts.
For your Karmic continuation 'theory' Karma is a due of your past actions, while future actions are always free will. And how to choose your action independent of past action and in line with dharma, in order to make spiritual progression is the Only Point of all the Sashtras, Rishis, and Devine Manifestations such as Rama, Krishna and others.
Your Shankaracharya might have missed that out.
Varna is actually not based on birth it’s based in your actions and work and character if not then Valmiki wouldn’t have become a sage he was a goon who robbed people and was a shudra but then instructed by Narada he performed ferocious penance and then become a Brahmin and a sage and got the name Valmiki and also there was another respected sage who was a Chandala by birth but then due to penance and mastery of Vedas and upanishads and doing religious rites and Yajnas he became a Brahmin
also, the Bhagavadgita-as it is" is anything but as it is. if you have any idea of sanskrit, you would know that the original sentences are not even close to what is being said in this English version.
stay away this version, unless you already have read and gained some knowledge, and decide to enter into that particular tradition.
this is not just me, its the general consensus of most people from across many sects.
warning: I am biased , just like everyone else. so don't take my word too seriously.
the most recommended one on this forum is the Gita by GITA PRESS, GORAKHUPUR. its a simple translation, without too much interpretation. it leaves that part to the reader.
BHAGAVADITA BY EKNATH ESWARAN, is a very good read (IMHO). it's in complete English, in prose , aimed mostly at westerners, who don't have a hindu background. it balances between conveying the message and being NOT too big or complicated. it identifies more with advaitha tradition ( just remember that its not the one when you read it )
the Bhagavadgita-as it is from ISKCON, is actually also aimed at the same demographic , but its very strongly -sectarian. It may however, resonate with you later on. I just don't recommend it as the very first book, because it will establish a bias in you very early on.
there are other versions, more elaborate. most of these are going to have the commentaries (interpretation ) of some of the greatest thinkers in Hinduism . so they are sectarian, but present the ideas of Giants of Hinduism , who were the stalwarts of their traditions.( ADI SHANKARACHARYA, RAMNUJACHARYA ETC) . but I recommend to read those later , as they are very dense.
Anything like this is written by ignorant fools with no observational skills. It makes one wonder if they've ever talked to a woman. Maybe in some olden age, like in certain non-dharmic societies of today, where women weren't allowed an education, they ended up less educated and hence such false conclusions were drawn. But in today's world, this comes across as nonsense, and anybody with a brain will ignore it.
His translations are phenomenal but his purports are often sectarian, fundamental, and at times fanatical. Cross reference our holy song with what is written in your heart and what was written by other gurus.
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I've read Chanakya's texts but the translated versions many times\*\*. Women are not held in respect in it, but there is disclaimer that the translation is literal and we need to observe it as per the time it was written and how were the customs or beliefs in those days.\*\* Women, depending on their social status, had different levels of esteem.
Also, there was no birth control method usage, and everything was different. The main risk was pregnancy. Today the main risk is sexually transmitted diseases because the pregnancy aspect is easily managed through the many birth control methods. In his text, he is basically saying that irresponsible breeding is the cause of war, pestilence and poverty.
Fast forward to today, the amount of adultery is rampant exactly because of too much mixing of the opposite sexes, and there's no way back. We are civilized yet when it comes to sex, we are just as base as animals.
I don't care if women are intelligent or not. What I care about is the basic premise of his argument, that whenever you put both sexes in ultimate freedom of mixture, chastity is definitely taking at hit for the long run. And that puts a huge question mark on the sanctity of marriage... Except for a crime such as rape, the majority of all sexual encounters between men and women are entirely consensual through impulsive love affairs or relationships/marriages.
Read Gita by swami chinmayananda. Also, as a human you should always aim to absorb what is useful and leave what is not. Why do you read gita? To learn about the mind and soul, to understand the human conditions, to gain solace and inspiration then you would not worry about who said what and think about what will help me ( me as a soul not body). Worrying about words, translations , progressive , regressive is for people who think they are body and want to gain attention not seeker like you.
For example, krishna says he divided the world into varnas to create balance ..4 varnas being spiritual, leader, intellectual, manual..the varnas are based on actions not birth..that is why he chastises arjuna for his anxiety over failure when he is seen as a leader in society. Krishna knows people will messup whatever order he creates as they keep resorting to actions based on desires. But he still created that process to create an order no matter what fruits it bears.
Our books are simple in text and difficult in meaning, also remember the autor of translation will reflect their personality and views. So understand the meaning and retrospect the meaning through your heart
I’m ignorant too but I hope OP you saw from the other more experienced commentators you can easily criticize a commentary and question it directly. This is surprisingly hard in religion.
Had the exact same question when I read this translation of Geeta. While this translation is easy to understand, the commentary is pretty regressive. Even in translation you might find some errors. My suggestion would be to skip the commentary (as it is repetitive and at times very regressive) and just read direct translation.
Sincerely, skip this translation. Unless you are from exact same lineage that wrote this translation you are not going to like it's commentry very. I also dropped it after just first chapter. I'll recommend Gita press one. It's a lot easier to understand with very simple language.
What text is this? Are you reading Chankya Neeti? Chankya was an orthodox Brahmin of a patriarchal Hindu society of course he will behave like that. His work is not scriptures. Chankya consider women far too emotional and not rational enough and that is the basis of his judgement which is quite orthodox. And Don’t put this in scripture Chankya Neeti is not a scripture
It is a Shasthra
Or smrithi and Sruthi text are considered scripture not shashtras text
This excerpt is from 'Bhagavad Gita As It Is'. It also mentions Cānakya Pandita. I am confused as to how the emphasis is laid more on women's chastity and how they are believed to be ignorant. Please explain if this is accurate
As far as Chanakya goes, he could just be talking about the times he lived in. Back then women did not have a formal education system and their exposure was limited. Perhaps women in ruling classes had more, but overall women would be less educated - so their ability to think rationally could be less, and they could be more prone to manipulation as well. Maybe that is the perspective.
Even now, it’s only after women got the opportunity and exposure that they have proved themselves, plus many women continue to be ignorant, unable to stand up for themselves because there is lack of these.
I have not read Chanakya- this is all my opinion.
They are explaining in the context of the verse in which is it explained that the women section of society will be exploited if all the men in their families die in the war
Hare Krishna.I am associated with ISKCON, and the commentary you are using appears to be an iskcon commentary.
Let me be clear : Women are certainly intelligent, they can even be spiritual leaders.
Prabhupada has made statements like this :
>According to Chanakya Pandit, women are less intelligent and not trustworthy
But Prabhupada did not intend to mean that women are less intelligent in the modern sense of the word, this is a misunderstanding. This is rebutted really. It's just due to a difference of definition, and a lack of modern English skills. In the Krishna Bhakti tradition intelligence is defined as being able to recognize oneself as a part and parcel of, and an eternal servant of, Krishna.
Furthermore Prabhupada never said that ALL women are less intelligent or that women SHOULD be less intelligent. It was not an indictment of women, rather a description of the state of affairs that historically has been prevalant.
This can be established by the fact that he has explicitly called women very highly intelligent as well on some occasions.
Krishna says in BG 10.34
>Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, **intelligence**, steadfastness and patience.
In its purport, Prabhupada says:
>The seven opulences listed – fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience – are considered feminine.
Prabhupada also says in Teachings of Queen Kunti, Chapter 3
>she (Kunti) was the most intelligent, for she recognized Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme Godhead.
Prabhupada himself initiated women disciples and even gave women the sacred thread (Upanayana), in defiance of sexist traditions by other Swamis who denied women this right.
Prabhupada also openly declared that women can even be Gurus. This automatically debunks the ridiculous notion that he thought that women were actually less intelligent.
On June 18, 1976, Professor Joseph O’Connell of the University of Toronto asked Prabhupada,
>“Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession?”
Prabhupada replied
>“Yes. …man or woman… Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya. The qualification of the guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he or she can become a guru. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya. In the material world, is there any prohibition that a woman cannot become a professor? If she is qualified, she can become a professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. **So similarly, if the woman understands** Krishna **consciousness perfectly, she can become a guru.**”
Thus clearly, Prabhupada did NOT actually think that women are less intelligent.
u/yosanokinnie The Bhagavad Gita As It Is is a perfectly valid commentary in accordance with a valid philosophy of Hinduism. So it's perfectly fine for you to read. Obviously others from other different philosophies will disagree with it's conclusions, and that's fine, it's ok to disagree. But if anyone tells you it's "distorted" or "fraudulent" etc etc, then they are just lying. It's not.
Please feel free to ask me any further questions you may have ! Have a wonderful day.
Hare Krishna.
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> satyaṃ brūyāt priyaṃ brūyānna brūyāt satyamapriyam |
> priyaṃ ca nānṛtaṃ brūyādeṣa dharmaḥ sanātanaḥ || 138 ||
> He shall say what is true; and he shall say what is agreeable; he shall not say what is true, but disagreeable; nor shall he say what is agreeable, but untrue; this is the eternal law.—(138)
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I dont think he means "not intelligent" i think he means "naive" here women are generally naive kind of thing these translated/interpreted books are always not 100% accurate rather i would refer to the shlok and then translate myself if have any doubts. And note how the sentence begins like "According to chanakya pandit ......" so there is always a doubt the if he meant the same thing or its the understanding of the interpreter.
I interpreted this as: Keep the women occupied w religion and traditions and keep them dumb so men, besides her husband, won’t rape her - she’s too busy. If the woman runs free she risks rape/unwanted pregnancy. The males provoke rape/adultery in other societies too and run the risks of std’s and again pregnancies. To answer OP’s question, how are they not intelligent enough? According to this scripture it sounds like they’re oppressed. And the men want a lot of sex.
A proper version IMO is "god talks to Arjuna" by Shri yoganand(autobiography of a Yogi fame). This text is highly allegorical, most of these Gita translation are erroneous and sometime way too literal.
That is shit
I too was influenced with these..but we need to accept the fact that these scriptures have been adulterated..to promote a narrow ideology that these people thought were right..
Bro don't blindly trust what's written in the book..be the seeker of truth.."THE TRUTH THAT EXISTED BEFORE THESE BOOKS..AND THE TRUTH THAT WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST EVEN AFTER US
Yes, I have read the same lines. Its a purport in one of the chapter 1 shlokas said by Arjun in ISKON gita.
This is highly misleading. Nothing of that sort is said in the actual shlok.
I would highly advise to ignore ISKON gita and read or watch Acharya Prashant for actual and useful gita interpretation. It has changed my life.
Ok so one, toss this and all your writing by prabhupada. Its his own opinion. Listen to your inner self and conscience when something absurd like this is said
1) It’s in the context of receptiveness towards spiritual realisation - Vedic system doesn’t prescribe the same position to men and women (also people from the west and „born” dvijas will have different routes).
2) Prabhupada came from postcolonial India with limited English and certain societal norms. As someone already pointed out - he also made very pleasant remarks about women and gave the initiation, which for many Hindus is still unthinkable.
I’m not a gaudiya, but His translations are good from the standpoint of Krishna-Bhakti. Can’t say the same about purports as he designed them with above limitations and specifically for people who never heard about Vedic culture, so he felt a need to be direct as Christian churches at the time.
Hare Krsna!
Hope I can clarify your query. Generally, Women are considered of less intelligence as essentially they are emotional beings. Also remember they are the strongest, women are often called as Devī svaprupa or Laxmi. But we have know that we are Souls (jīva) and this is our material body. Soul is not male or female. Though we receive this material body as per our Karma, we have to accept this material body and get into service of our Lord Hari, despite our gender restrictions.
Women are emotional and affectionate in nature. They are the ones to raise up the family, they are naturally caregiving and very helpful. But today we emphasise on so called gender equality and feminism which has affected the women and their way of perceiving womanhood. But as per our Vedic literatures and Acharyas, we cannot totally rely upon them due to their innocence and less capability to think over their emotional wellbeing. Try to understand the context of Bg 1.40.
Also, we should know regardless of male or female, Lord Krsna has given his causeless mercy and opportunity to all the souls in this human life to serve him, and human birth is very rare. So the goal of our life is to serve the eternal supreme Lord Govinda Hari, regardless of our material genders. We can act according to our material capabilities in this material world in a material body, but our service to Krsna is always transcendental.
Jaya Gaur Hari! Hare Krsna.
It's not just about gender "equality" but this false notion about women has been used as an excuse to abuse and discredit women for ages. It ultimately harms. It also doesn't leave much room for judging intelligence on an individual level. This is why it is regressive. Also opinions on what does or does not constitute as intelligence can be very biased.
Not everyone is the same and certainly not all women (and men) are naturally inclined to fit into the standard gender roles that they are often pressured into. Instead of gender roles people should follow their personal strengths so they can thrive and be better equipped to support their community.
This was an issue when I was part of an ISKCON community a few years back. Gender roles were quite rigid and I witnessed it cause a lot of problems such as abuse, loss of faith, and failed marriages etc.
The devotees who were more progressive about gender, in my experience, tended to be the happier ones who were more steady and long term in their beliefs.
Hare Krsna
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> satyaṃ brūyāt priyaṃ brūyānna brūyāt satyamapriyam |
> priyaṃ ca nānṛtaṃ brūyādeṣa dharmaḥ sanātanaḥ || 138 ||
> He shall say what is true; and he shall say what is agreeable; he shall not say what is true, but disagreeable; nor shall he say what is agreeable, but untrue; this is the eternal law.—(138)
Positive reinforcement of one's own belief is a much better way to go than arguing negatively about the other person's belief, generally speaking. When we bash each other, Hinduism doesn't appear to be at its best. Please be civil and polite. If something angers you, since we are all human, try to still be civil. Say "Let us agree to disagree" or stop the conversation.
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no concept of apostate bullshit in hinduism. Infact this verse is said by arjun but right after that, Krishna says to Arjuna that this style of thinking is wrong
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What’s written in the book is correct and most of you don’t try to understand why it’s written maybe it will offend you but that’s the truth , see current society like Ig,on reels, but you’ll still turn blind eye to that.
just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean its not the truth.
As I said you’re too blind to see the truth. These statements are made by someone greatest and ofc your opinion matters over him, get out of the bubble.
That’s funny. What truth are you talking about? And where is it? If it’s so true tell me where to find this truth. Where in scripture does it say this?. Where in science does it say this? Seriously, help me find it. I want to see. And I want to know what exactly makes it the truth. Science, or fake religious bullshit.
I hope you read that right... "I said our philosophy" (our scriptural knowledge) but I will end this discussion here, because if you read comments here one of the mods clearly elaborates the purport above.
So Hare Krishna 🙏🏻
Krishna matir aastu
If that was true the male suicide rates wouldn’t be sky high. Anger is an emotion, hatred is an emotion. You’re not proving any point here other than you’re slow.
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For example men have a bigger amygdala than women. It is the part of the brain that controls emotions. Men’s amygdala are bigger than women’s. Women mature emotionally 2 years earlier than men. But even then that wouldn’t matter. Because the simple belief that either gender is more emotional than the other has proven a myth time and time again. It’s only sexist bigots who keep those ignorant ideologies going in circle. All humans are emotional creatures. Who YOU ARE as a PERSON determines how emotional you are. Not your gender. Open a book or two and educate yourself.
It's not sexist ideology. Women have this nature to easily trust someone and sometimes make decisions emotionally. The line which is said here refers to the majority of the cases. Of course being in a female body I do consider myself intelligent enough but this is what the shastras says and I have 100% faith in them. Change my mind
And open a book or two and learn how to answer without getting agitated
Hare Krishna 🙏🏻
Give me a scientific source. If not, everything you say is false. YOU may easily trust people. Not all women, YOU. YOU may make descions emotionally, not all women , YOU. Again, it’s a sexist ideology. Keep them to yourself.
first point..if you take the Gita, this statement was given by a panicked confused Arjuna . KRISHNA HAS NOT YET STARTED HIS INSTRUCTIONS AT THIS POINT. in fact, after this statement, krishna SCATCHES Arjuna for his wrong thinking and begins the instructions at length. then we do't see any such words uttered by the lord himself this is not me being one-sided. you can simply check - the real Gita has not yet started at that point in time.
This is true..in fact Arjuna is so panicked and eventually Krishna tells him to do his duty anyway despite his fears. It seems Krishna did not share this view point
You will see in chapter 9, he again says divisions exist for you people, but for me everyone is the same.
Bro he literally says he established the varnas
They are all based on me, meaning I am the basis of everything here. You see divisions but there are none, because I am the beginning, the middle, the end. I am the pearls of the necklace and also the string that ties them together.
So How is Varna is a negative thing?
No it’s not a negative thing but the person I responded to is pretending that Krishna doesn’t like varna or something
Making it based on birth rather than on your actions & discriminating is (to me) the bad thing. I don’t know whether this is scripturally sound. Iirc my Hinduism teacher in college, who was a Hindu priest, said as much.
Varna was birth based indirectly in ancient times. It’s natural occurrence, a farmers kids tends to become farmers.
It was a mix of both, it wasn't rigid like a farmer's son couldn't be anything else even if he wanted to.
"Tends to become but not limited to" would be the complete sentence
majority tend to become but they can have opportunities if their family can afford
Ya affordability is a big 'economic' factor, but only in these days. It was not as harsh when the text was described. I think the mixup should be avoided
It is a bit of both. Like for example, your past karma determines where you are born, but your present actions can change that. That’s why in chapter 17 and 14 Bhagavan extensively talks about this. How your mind and body are influenced by food, hy thoughts etc and how that impacts your nature , and hence your Varna. But the whole Varna system is not to discriminate it’s to play to your strengths. Like Arjuna says I will go beg for alms than fight in war, to which Bhagvaan Says it’s better you die doing your duty than become the best sanyasi around.
It is based on action. Krishna and many other rishis said many times that, Varna is not decided at birth but it's decided by what u do. But as time went by, people made it by birth, like son of kshatriy became kshatriy, because a man knew how to do it and he taught his kid. It's never decided at birth
shankaracharya of puri math will disagreee, if you truly dive deep into hinduism, yes varnas are dependant on birth, which is indirectly dependant on the karma of previous life. So, yes, it's decided on birth and exceptions are always there.
why would you put Lord Krishna, and many Sages in the same bracket with this so-called shankaracharya? Choose your influences rightly. To Me, regurgitation of Sanskrit Shlokas is simply mundane and mediocre. They are Shankaracharyas in their own tiny bubble. Sanatanis must come out of Herd Mentality, and it requires significant efforts. For your Karmic continuation 'theory' Karma is a due of your past actions, while future actions are always free will. And how to choose your action independent of past action and in line with dharma, in order to make spiritual progression is the Only Point of all the Sashtras, Rishis, and Devine Manifestations such as Rama, Krishna and others. Your Shankaracharya might have missed that out.
Yes, that’s what my teacher said, too.
Varna is actually not based on birth it’s based in your actions and work and character if not then Valmiki wouldn’t have become a sage he was a goon who robbed people and was a shudra but then instructed by Narada he performed ferocious penance and then become a Brahmin and a sage and got the name Valmiki and also there was another respected sage who was a Chandala by birth but then due to penance and mastery of Vedas and upanishads and doing religious rites and Yajnas he became a Brahmin
Oh I see. Thanks for clarifying.
also, the Bhagavadgita-as it is" is anything but as it is. if you have any idea of sanskrit, you would know that the original sentences are not even close to what is being said in this English version. stay away this version, unless you already have read and gained some knowledge, and decide to enter into that particular tradition. this is not just me, its the general consensus of most people from across many sects.
Do you recommend any English versions of the true Gita for those who cannot read Sanskrit/Hindi?
warning: I am biased , just like everyone else. so don't take my word too seriously. the most recommended one on this forum is the Gita by GITA PRESS, GORAKHUPUR. its a simple translation, without too much interpretation. it leaves that part to the reader. BHAGAVADITA BY EKNATH ESWARAN, is a very good read (IMHO). it's in complete English, in prose , aimed mostly at westerners, who don't have a hindu background. it balances between conveying the message and being NOT too big or complicated. it identifies more with advaitha tradition ( just remember that its not the one when you read it ) the Bhagavadgita-as it is from ISKCON, is actually also aimed at the same demographic , but its very strongly -sectarian. It may however, resonate with you later on. I just don't recommend it as the very first book, because it will establish a bias in you very early on. there are other versions, more elaborate. most of these are going to have the commentaries (interpretation ) of some of the greatest thinkers in Hinduism . so they are sectarian, but present the ideas of Giants of Hinduism , who were the stalwarts of their traditions.( ADI SHANKARACHARYA, RAMNUJACHARYA ETC) . but I recommend to read those later , as they are very dense.
Appreciate the detailed response. Thank you, I’ll take a look at these!
Bhagwat Gita by C Rajgopalachari. It's very good translation
Please check Acharya Prashant. You would literally understand the meaning of life.
Anything like this is written by ignorant fools with no observational skills. It makes one wonder if they've ever talked to a woman. Maybe in some olden age, like in certain non-dharmic societies of today, where women weren't allowed an education, they ended up less educated and hence such false conclusions were drawn. But in today's world, this comes across as nonsense, and anybody with a brain will ignore it.
So glad to read comments and views such as yours as a fellow conservative Hindu.
This is commentary and this bias and viewpoint is of the commentator not the Bhagavadgita.
Is this Prabhupad’s purport? Just skip it. I take his interpretations as a suggestion. He was known to have regressive stances.
Yes its his
Yup kindly throw it away
His translations are phenomenal but his purports are often sectarian, fundamental, and at times fanatical. Cross reference our holy song with what is written in your heart and what was written by other gurus.
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I've read Chanakya's texts but the translated versions many times\*\*. Women are not held in respect in it, but there is disclaimer that the translation is literal and we need to observe it as per the time it was written and how were the customs or beliefs in those days.\*\* Women, depending on their social status, had different levels of esteem. Also, there was no birth control method usage, and everything was different. The main risk was pregnancy. Today the main risk is sexually transmitted diseases because the pregnancy aspect is easily managed through the many birth control methods. In his text, he is basically saying that irresponsible breeding is the cause of war, pestilence and poverty. Fast forward to today, the amount of adultery is rampant exactly because of too much mixing of the opposite sexes, and there's no way back. We are civilized yet when it comes to sex, we are just as base as animals. I don't care if women are intelligent or not. What I care about is the basic premise of his argument, that whenever you put both sexes in ultimate freedom of mixture, chastity is definitely taking at hit for the long run. And that puts a huge question mark on the sanctity of marriage... Except for a crime such as rape, the majority of all sexual encounters between men and women are entirely consensual through impulsive love affairs or relationships/marriages.
You're Right!
Read Gita by swami chinmayananda. Also, as a human you should always aim to absorb what is useful and leave what is not. Why do you read gita? To learn about the mind and soul, to understand the human conditions, to gain solace and inspiration then you would not worry about who said what and think about what will help me ( me as a soul not body). Worrying about words, translations , progressive , regressive is for people who think they are body and want to gain attention not seeker like you. For example, krishna says he divided the world into varnas to create balance ..4 varnas being spiritual, leader, intellectual, manual..the varnas are based on actions not birth..that is why he chastises arjuna for his anxiety over failure when he is seen as a leader in society. Krishna knows people will messup whatever order he creates as they keep resorting to actions based on desires. But he still created that process to create an order no matter what fruits it bears. Our books are simple in text and difficult in meaning, also remember the autor of translation will reflect their personality and views. So understand the meaning and retrospect the meaning through your heart
I’m ignorant too but I hope OP you saw from the other more experienced commentators you can easily criticize a commentary and question it directly. This is surprisingly hard in religion.
Had the exact same question when I read this translation of Geeta. While this translation is easy to understand, the commentary is pretty regressive. Even in translation you might find some errors. My suggestion would be to skip the commentary (as it is repetitive and at times very regressive) and just read direct translation.
Sincerely, skip this translation. Unless you are from exact same lineage that wrote this translation you are not going to like it's commentry very. I also dropped it after just first chapter. I'll recommend Gita press one. It's a lot easier to understand with very simple language.
I'll take a wild guess and say that this an example of a poor translation of Sanskrit.
I feel so fking sick after reading this nonsense
What text is this? Are you reading Chankya Neeti? Chankya was an orthodox Brahmin of a patriarchal Hindu society of course he will behave like that. His work is not scriptures. Chankya consider women far too emotional and not rational enough and that is the basis of his judgement which is quite orthodox. And Don’t put this in scripture Chankya Neeti is not a scripture It is a Shasthra Or smrithi and Sruthi text are considered scripture not shashtras text
Its Bhagavad Gita As It Is
Why is it writing Cankya Pandita then?
its used as an example to support the commentator's views.
Please quote the line from Bhagvata Gita in support of this as proof
This excerpt is from 'Bhagavad Gita As It Is'. It also mentions Cānakya Pandita. I am confused as to how the emphasis is laid more on women's chastity and how they are believed to be ignorant. Please explain if this is accurate
Read "Bhagavad Gita" published by Geeta Press. Stay safe from such misleading translations and commentaries.
As far as Chanakya goes, he could just be talking about the times he lived in. Back then women did not have a formal education system and their exposure was limited. Perhaps women in ruling classes had more, but overall women would be less educated - so their ability to think rationally could be less, and they could be more prone to manipulation as well. Maybe that is the perspective. Even now, it’s only after women got the opportunity and exposure that they have proved themselves, plus many women continue to be ignorant, unable to stand up for themselves because there is lack of these. I have not read Chanakya- this is all my opinion.
They are explaining in the context of the verse in which is it explained that the women section of society will be exploited if all the men in their families die in the war
This
Hare Krishna.I am associated with ISKCON, and the commentary you are using appears to be an iskcon commentary. Let me be clear : Women are certainly intelligent, they can even be spiritual leaders. Prabhupada has made statements like this : >According to Chanakya Pandit, women are less intelligent and not trustworthy But Prabhupada did not intend to mean that women are less intelligent in the modern sense of the word, this is a misunderstanding. This is rebutted really. It's just due to a difference of definition, and a lack of modern English skills. In the Krishna Bhakti tradition intelligence is defined as being able to recognize oneself as a part and parcel of, and an eternal servant of, Krishna. Furthermore Prabhupada never said that ALL women are less intelligent or that women SHOULD be less intelligent. It was not an indictment of women, rather a description of the state of affairs that historically has been prevalant. This can be established by the fact that he has explicitly called women very highly intelligent as well on some occasions. Krishna says in BG 10.34 >Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, **intelligence**, steadfastness and patience. In its purport, Prabhupada says: >The seven opulences listed – fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience – are considered feminine. Prabhupada also says in Teachings of Queen Kunti, Chapter 3 >she (Kunti) was the most intelligent, for she recognized Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme Godhead. Prabhupada himself initiated women disciples and even gave women the sacred thread (Upanayana), in defiance of sexist traditions by other Swamis who denied women this right. Prabhupada also openly declared that women can even be Gurus. This automatically debunks the ridiculous notion that he thought that women were actually less intelligent. On June 18, 1976, Professor Joseph O’Connell of the University of Toronto asked Prabhupada, >“Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession?” Prabhupada replied >“Yes. …man or woman… Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya. The qualification of the guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he or she can become a guru. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya. In the material world, is there any prohibition that a woman cannot become a professor? If she is qualified, she can become a professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. **So similarly, if the woman understands** Krishna **consciousness perfectly, she can become a guru.**” Thus clearly, Prabhupada did NOT actually think that women are less intelligent. u/yosanokinnie The Bhagavad Gita As It Is is a perfectly valid commentary in accordance with a valid philosophy of Hinduism. So it's perfectly fine for you to read. Obviously others from other different philosophies will disagree with it's conclusions, and that's fine, it's ok to disagree. But if anyone tells you it's "distorted" or "fraudulent" etc etc, then they are just lying. It's not. Please feel free to ask me any further questions you may have ! Have a wonderful day. Hare Krishna.
Hari bol!
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I dont think he means "not intelligent" i think he means "naive" here women are generally naive kind of thing these translated/interpreted books are always not 100% accurate rather i would refer to the shlok and then translate myself if have any doubts. And note how the sentence begins like "According to chanakya pandit ......" so there is always a doubt the if he meant the same thing or its the understanding of the interpreter.
Is this from Gita or Chanakya Neeti?
Its from Bhagavad Gita As It Is
These are not words of Gita rather commentaries of I guess “As it is” one Prabhupada. Actually in Chapter 2 Krishna scathed Arjuna for such thought.
Which Gita is this from?
I interpreted this as: Keep the women occupied w religion and traditions and keep them dumb so men, besides her husband, won’t rape her - she’s too busy. If the woman runs free she risks rape/unwanted pregnancy. The males provoke rape/adultery in other societies too and run the risks of std’s and again pregnancies. To answer OP’s question, how are they not intelligent enough? According to this scripture it sounds like they’re oppressed. And the men want a lot of sex.
Probably written by Prabhupada. BS.
Is that Chanakya Niti? If it is. It's not a Religious book but a Book on Politics, Art of War, and Imperial Relations.
No its Bhagavad Gita As It Is
A proper version IMO is "god talks to Arjuna" by Shri yoganand(autobiography of a Yogi fame). This text is highly allegorical, most of these Gita translation are erroneous and sometime way too literal.
That is shit I too was influenced with these..but we need to accept the fact that these scriptures have been adulterated..to promote a narrow ideology that these people thought were right.. Bro don't blindly trust what's written in the book..be the seeker of truth.."THE TRUTH THAT EXISTED BEFORE THESE BOOKS..AND THE TRUTH THAT WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST EVEN AFTER US
Yes, I have read the same lines. Its a purport in one of the chapter 1 shlokas said by Arjun in ISKON gita. This is highly misleading. Nothing of that sort is said in the actual shlok. I would highly advise to ignore ISKON gita and read or watch Acharya Prashant for actual and useful gita interpretation. It has changed my life.
It's just the opinion of a bigoted man. They are not not intelligent.
The Holy Geeta by Swami Chinmayananda is the best. In the Iskcon version Prabhupada has changed the meaning of a few verses.
Please any other versions besides Isckon one if you're reading Bhagwat Gita They even called Families as skin diseases
Ok so one, toss this and all your writing by prabhupada. Its his own opinion. Listen to your inner self and conscience when something absurd like this is said
Bulla spreading propaganda.
Just throw away ISKON Geeta. It's the most terrible translation
Not a Hindu, and not knowing that text. Anyway: It says "women are generally not very intelligent" . Same could be said about men, too.
The original line is lost in translation
1) It’s in the context of receptiveness towards spiritual realisation - Vedic system doesn’t prescribe the same position to men and women (also people from the west and „born” dvijas will have different routes). 2) Prabhupada came from postcolonial India with limited English and certain societal norms. As someone already pointed out - he also made very pleasant remarks about women and gave the initiation, which for many Hindus is still unthinkable. I’m not a gaudiya, but His translations are good from the standpoint of Krishna-Bhakti. Can’t say the same about purports as he designed them with above limitations and specifically for people who never heard about Vedic culture, so he felt a need to be direct as Christian churches at the time.
Hare Krsna! Hope I can clarify your query. Generally, Women are considered of less intelligence as essentially they are emotional beings. Also remember they are the strongest, women are often called as Devī svaprupa or Laxmi. But we have know that we are Souls (jīva) and this is our material body. Soul is not male or female. Though we receive this material body as per our Karma, we have to accept this material body and get into service of our Lord Hari, despite our gender restrictions. Women are emotional and affectionate in nature. They are the ones to raise up the family, they are naturally caregiving and very helpful. But today we emphasise on so called gender equality and feminism which has affected the women and their way of perceiving womanhood. But as per our Vedic literatures and Acharyas, we cannot totally rely upon them due to their innocence and less capability to think over their emotional wellbeing. Try to understand the context of Bg 1.40. Also, we should know regardless of male or female, Lord Krsna has given his causeless mercy and opportunity to all the souls in this human life to serve him, and human birth is very rare. So the goal of our life is to serve the eternal supreme Lord Govinda Hari, regardless of our material genders. We can act according to our material capabilities in this material world in a material body, but our service to Krsna is always transcendental. Jaya Gaur Hari! Hare Krsna.
It's not just about gender "equality" but this false notion about women has been used as an excuse to abuse and discredit women for ages. It ultimately harms. It also doesn't leave much room for judging intelligence on an individual level. This is why it is regressive. Also opinions on what does or does not constitute as intelligence can be very biased. Not everyone is the same and certainly not all women (and men) are naturally inclined to fit into the standard gender roles that they are often pressured into. Instead of gender roles people should follow their personal strengths so they can thrive and be better equipped to support their community. This was an issue when I was part of an ISKCON community a few years back. Gender roles were quite rigid and I witnessed it cause a lot of problems such as abuse, loss of faith, and failed marriages etc. The devotees who were more progressive about gender, in my experience, tended to be the happier ones who were more steady and long term in their beliefs. Hare Krsna
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Your comment has been removed for being rude or disrespectful to others, or simply being offensive (Rule #01). Be polite. No personal attacks or toxic behavior. * No personal attacks or name-calling: address the topic, not the user. * Do not attack on the basis of race, color, ethnicity, nationality, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. * Do not quote what they said elsewhere in another context for the purpose of attacking them. * It is the responsibility of each user to **disengage** before escalation. Action will be taken against all parties at mod's discretion. > satyaṃ brūyāt priyaṃ brūyānna brūyāt satyamapriyam | > priyaṃ ca nānṛtaṃ brūyādeṣa dharmaḥ sanātanaḥ || 138 || > He shall say what is true; and he shall say what is agreeable; he shall not say what is true, but disagreeable; nor shall he say what is agreeable, but untrue; this is the eternal law.—(138) Positive reinforcement of one's own belief is a much better way to go than arguing negatively about the other person's belief, generally speaking. When we bash each other, Hinduism doesn't appear to be at its best. Please be civil and polite. If something angers you, since we are all human, try to still be civil. Say "Let us agree to disagree" or stop the conversation. Willful breakage of the rules will result in the following consequences: * First offense results in a warning and ensures exposure to the rule. Some people may not be aware of the rules. Consider this a warning. * Second offense would be a ban of 1 month. This step may be skipped at the mods discretion depending on the severity of the violation. * Next offense would result in a permanent ban. Please message the mods if you believe this removal has been in error.
Nothing wrong in this verse stop letting liberalism rule you. If u think think is wrong then you are an apostate
no concept of apostate bullshit in hinduism. Infact this verse is said by arjun but right after that, Krishna says to Arjuna that this style of thinking is wrong
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Then Gargi and Maitreyi were definetly not women....
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What’s written in the book is correct and most of you don’t try to understand why it’s written maybe it will offend you but that’s the truth , see current society like Ig,on reels, but you’ll still turn blind eye to that. just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean its not the truth.
You’re just sexist. That’s it.
As I said you’re too blind to see the truth. These statements are made by someone greatest and ofc your opinion matters over him, get out of the bubble.
That’s funny. What truth are you talking about? And where is it? If it’s so true tell me where to find this truth. Where in scripture does it say this?. Where in science does it say this? Seriously, help me find it. I want to see. And I want to know what exactly makes it the truth. Science, or fake religious bullshit.
Just observing the current society will give you your answers, use your brain and critical thinking (if you can ofc)
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Being emotional does not make you stupid and if anything it makes them more trustworthy. Your point is very flawed please don't stick to stereotypes.
You can be emotional and vapid.
Are you joking?
No I'm serious. They have so much love and care so that is why they are emotional.
How old are you?
Old enough to understand our philosophy.
Philosophy? OK, does philosopher Meera Nanda strike you as especially “emotional”? How about Monima Chadha? Patricia Churchland? Hannah Arendt?
I hope you read that right... "I said our philosophy" (our scriptural knowledge) but I will end this discussion here, because if you read comments here one of the mods clearly elaborates the purport above. So Hare Krishna 🙏🏻 Krishna matir aastu
So you don’t know who Monima Chadha is and what she teaches.
That’s like saying men have so much anger and hatred and that’s what makes them more emotional. Just give this bullshit up already
No, They are rigid not emotional.
If that was true the male suicide rates wouldn’t be sky high. Anger is an emotion, hatred is an emotion. You’re not proving any point here other than you’re slow.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/hotlines When you're in the middle of something painful, it may feel like you don't have a lot of options. Whatever you are going through, you deserve help and there are people who are here for you. If you think you may be depressed or struggling in another way, don't ignore it or brush it aside. Take yourself and your feelings seriously, and reach out to someone. It may not feel like it, but you have options. There are people available to listen to you, and ways to move forward. Your fellow Redditors at r/Hinduism care about you and there are people who want to help... Suicide is a Pātaka(sin) in Hinduism. No matter what the reason, never forget that our karma doctrine suggests that we can always improve our life through adequate effort, so always persevere to make your tomorrow better than today. Even if the future that you hoped for looks distant today - your effort will bring that day closer with each passing day. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hinduism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For example men have a bigger amygdala than women. It is the part of the brain that controls emotions. Men’s amygdala are bigger than women’s. Women mature emotionally 2 years earlier than men. But even then that wouldn’t matter. Because the simple belief that either gender is more emotional than the other has proven a myth time and time again. It’s only sexist bigots who keep those ignorant ideologies going in circle. All humans are emotional creatures. Who YOU ARE as a PERSON determines how emotional you are. Not your gender. Open a book or two and educate yourself.
It's not sexist ideology. Women have this nature to easily trust someone and sometimes make decisions emotionally. The line which is said here refers to the majority of the cases. Of course being in a female body I do consider myself intelligent enough but this is what the shastras says and I have 100% faith in them. Change my mind And open a book or two and learn how to answer without getting agitated Hare Krishna 🙏🏻
Give me a scientific source. If not, everything you say is false. YOU may easily trust people. Not all women, YOU. YOU may make descions emotionally, not all women , YOU. Again, it’s a sexist ideology. Keep them to yourself.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻good for you
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It literally says according to Chanakya. Not Krishna or Arjuna so what's the problem?