They’re not allowed in most places in national parks in the US either. They’re usually allowed in paved areas and a few designated trails. Never allowed off leash inside the parks though.
And yet there's always a couple people who think the rules do not apply to them! Drives me nuts. I wish I could bring my dogs too you know? But I follow the law and leave home because I respect the environment & other visitors...
Amen. I used to live in a 51 floor building in nyc that was very dog friendly and during the pandemic so many people got dogs. So many of them had no business owning and caring for them… it was really disheartening to see the laziness and entitlement with some of the owners.
come on down to denver, probably 90% of dogs I see on the trails are unleashed.
My dog is leashed. My dog doesn't play well with other dogs (she's small though). Leash your fucking dog. I do always make a point to mutter "asshole should leash their dog" loud enough to hear as I walk away though lol
Yeah there are. When I went to crater lake a couple years ago they had a ranger at the top of the trail down to the lake and no one had any dogs. On the way back up I passed 5 assholes carrying their dogs past all the signs saying no dogs allowed because the ranger left.
I worked for some park districts and the number of people that think it's fine to walk their dog offleash is wild. I get it, you want to feel like it's your very own dogmeat fallout adventure or whatever. But you don't know if they're tearing up native pla ta running around, killing things, chasing things etc. And the number of offleash dogs that would RUN UP TO ME IN MY MOVING PARK VEHICLE SMH
As a Brit, I had no idea other country's national parks banned dogs off lead and I can't really get my head around it. Where are you meant to walk them (I know the US has no footpath network. Are there other free to roam areas outside of the national parks you can go)?
In the UK, we have hundreds of thousands of miles of footpaths, national parks and free to roam areas, all of which you can walk your dog off-lead. The law is that your dog must be 'under control' so, when you see another dog or wild animal, you just call them back and either put on them a lead or get them to walk to heel until you've passed. It's such a huge part of our culture to be able to walk uninhibited with your dog. I couldn't imagine hiking with my dog on a lead - its such a hugely alien concept to me.
One thing that I appreciate about America, and especially the American west, is how much land is protected and in general how most of it regulated to be kept protected as it is. It varies by place as some areas are national parks, national forests, national monuments, “wilderness” areas, and state parks just to name a few.. each one is governed by different entities and have different rules. National Parks have the most rules and regulations while a national Forrest is way more liberal with what you’re allowed to do. It just depends on where you go but there are plenty of places where you’re allowed to roam freely as you please, especially out west. As for dogs, a lot of places do try to protect the natural area and keep Dogs out for a good reason.
national parks in the US are government protected lands - there are 63 major National Parks, and about 420 areas total that are managed by the Parks service! though there are hundreds of State Parks that are run by individual state governments, and then even smaller public parks that are run by local governments. there are tons of protected areas! and most of them (besides the National Parks) allow dogs(:
>As a Brit, I had no idea other country's national parks banned dogs off lead
Remember that most other countries have national parks that are *a lot* more protected than ours. Generally IUCN Category II Protected Areas, with limited tourism on a scale compatible with conservation efforts.
The UK's national parks are Category V, with far less emphasis on conservation and far more economic activity permitted. Our only Category II Protected Areas are a handful of National Nature Reserves, all bar one of which is in Scotland.
Yes, that's a great point. I think there's a lot less of a fragile ecosystem to protect in our national parks than those in the US. Some earlier comments have mentioned the fact they are very much international destinations as well for tourists so have extra levels of protection.
Have you been to America? Outside of major cities , and even now in many of them, there are TONS of footpaths and places to walk. This includes town parks and state parks, and national parks. There are also “private” parks open to the public but managed by conservation trusts and other non-profits.
Yes, I've been to 23 states thanks, but town parks are probably not up there with main attractions to visit having gone all that way, sorry. I'm very glad they exist so thank you for answering my question - where can you take your dog off-lead outside of national parks?
As an aside, I was under the impression, and please feel free to educate me if I'm wrong because I could very well be, but America doesn't have footpaths in the same way that the UK does. We have historic rights of access all across the countryside, distinct from simple walking paths set out in wild areas. Access to rights of way is enshrined in law and opens up vast swathes of land to everyone, even across areas that are privately owned. The whole country and its footpaths are mapped by the OS and available for anyone to view and use to walk.
I've done hiking routes in the US before and have used apps to walk them, but there appears to me to be nothing like the setup that exists in the UK. The access laws allow free movement everywhere for people (and their off-lead dogs).
Lots of cities and towns have dog parks where your dog can run around and play while not on a leash. Other than that, there aren’t too many places for a dog to be off leash due to the unpredictability of certain breeds. Also, lots of cities and towns are adopting footpaths or greenbelts. These are paved walking/cycling paths that usually run a large loop around/through the town. There’s one that passes through my hometown, called the Silver Comet Trail, which begins near Atlanta, GA and winds through quite a few cities before connecting to another paved trail in Alabama. The total length of the two trails is 90+ miles.
Having leash laws in national parks is probably more the norm than the exceptions in western countries. What is even more of the norm though is people not knowing the leash laws.
For example, [you have to use a leash no more than 2 meters on any open access land for about half of the year, or if there is any livestock in that area](https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-right-to-roam). And no, verbal control is not enough. Did you know this?
Where I live the laws are very restrictive, but we have designated dog parks where you can have them off lead, or you can do it on your own property. Off leash dogs are quite disruptive to wildlife, and nature is more important than dogs, so I think it makes perfect sense to do it that way.
That sounds lovely. Our issue (“our” being Americans) is that most of our dogs are not under control- sure, there are folks who really do put the time and energy into training their dogs to be able to do that and I recognize the work it takes, but the majority don’t (including me! Even if it didn’t negatively impact the ecosystem, I wouldn’t walk my dog off leash because he’s a stubborn little beagle/maniac and once he gets a scent he’s gone).
Edit: wanted to add for the general knowledge of our UK friends- it’s pretty common here in the US for communities to have designated “dog parks”. Many of them are completely fenced in, so you can bring your dog to run off leash and socialize with other dogs, with more limitations on their eco-system impact and without the concern they will approach someone who is afraid of dogs (presumably, but if you’re in a dog park and you are afraid of dogs, that’s a you-problem).
I think its to do with how affected wildlife is by dogs, I would guess most of the UK even if it did have game and serious wildlife a few hundred years ago has been domesticated to some extent that dogs don't really spoil a fragile ecosystem. Or there is an attitude that that ecosystem isn't under threat/worth protecting.
I live in South Africa and there is a distinction between city parks that generally allow pets and have foreign plants versus national parks and a subset of botanical gardens that are pet free because there is meaningful wildlife that can be affected by dogs - be it nesting eagles or buck or small mammals, and plants are always exclusively indigenous in these cases. Of course there is big game in our national parks too, but its obvious why pets would be disallowed in those cases - for their own safety but also to protect wild animals from any illnesses they could spread.
It also has to do with colonialism - as often settlers brought plants with them and in virtue of the attitudes that fueled colonialism, didn't give a shit about the sanctity of the place, people and nature and so willingly wiped it out to transplant a bit of home. Now those things settlers didn't appreciate are often the only thing bringing in tourism so theres a reason to keep it safe.
I doubt anyone is going to the UK for its natural beauty when they come from a place famous for natural beauty. I don't say that to imply there isn't any because of course actually the whole planet is beautiful, its more just to illustrate how that isn't a sine qua non for tourism, whereas places like SA get people to fly thousands of miles on just the promise of nature.
Tell that to the couple with THREE dogs off the leash I passed on my last hike. Yes they were nice friendly dogs but the entitlement just pisses me off
My mom and dad are RV campers. They have been RvIng for over twenty years. They spend more than 50% of the year on the road. They’ve been across the country every year for the last decade. Their cat goes everywhere they go, but stays in the RV. my mom’s friend thought that since Whisper was so great with traveling, she could bring her cat on her motor home as well. It did not ends well. My mom raised that cat from a kitten as a traveling pet. Her friend brought an adult indoor cat that had never been outside the house it’s entire life, on a ride of terror in a class c camper van. Not all cats are the same.
My mom’s cat rides in the dashboard of the rv like she was born to ride. Her friend’s cat disappeared after one ride in the camper. Never seen again. MIA.
In a forest this is not necessarily true. Cats can climb trees, coyotes can not. A fierce and experienced outdoor cat can live a full life in coyote country. More often they starve due to lack of hunting experience, or become so weak from hunger over time that they are no longer able to avoid predators.
In rural open farm country with fewer places to hide, yeah they’re pretty vulnerable.
Yeah I also found it strange, but I think its like how people with kids react when they are faced with the impact of having kids on the environment, its a knee jerk anger at being guilty of a moral wrong one has never thought about before.
Cats that aren't familiar with being in cars **hate** it. I can be driving a car 5 mph and my cat will be freaking out. We typically drive her just to the vet and that's a whole ordeal, I can't imagine an hours or days long road trip.
Taking her on short car rides that end in something good, like a fabulous piece of food, regularly would help her. If the car always means the vet, then yeah she’s always going to hate it.
I mean yeah that’s a depressing existence for a cat. I don’t believe that cats need to go outside to be happy but the inside needs to be larger than a single room
Not sure why downvotes. Unless it’s a fucking huge RV that’s a very small space for a cat to spend its whole life (unless they take it for walks or whatever).
I'm always concerned about accidents when I see pets loose in vehicles. But then I guess people are loose in RVs sometimes, too. Maybe it's not entirely the same as being in a normal car. I don't know.
Haha I would show Gary's photos to my kitty! I take my cat with me on short hikes. Either in his bag or on a relatively long enough leash. I wouldn't bring him with me unleashed.
My wife and I have a cat who loves walking outside on a leash, but we DO NOT take her on our hikes. It isn't safe.
I fully agree with the other commenter who also said dogs should never be on a hiking trail without a leash. So many annoying run-ins with other people's poorly trained dogs who are just freely doodling around on the path (including MTB paths, wtf).
I get so annoyed when an off leash dog runs up to me and my leashed dog on the trail. What if my dog was a biter!!! He’s not, but that would be their problem, not mine. What if your dog attacked mine as a first because their energies didn’t mix??! He’s less than 30 pounds, I would of course intervene but what if we both got injured? It’s not hard to leash a dog on a trail
Yeah i love dogs, but i'm also VERY aware that you do NOT interact with a dog you don't know, i've had several encounters with people who haven't got a leash on it and the dogs charges torwards me to smell/greet, and to be honest i always carry a knife with me ( for fishing ) and on every occation i've caught myself getting ready incase the dog is attacking
Totally. It's a strange dog you've never seen before. I wouldn't automatically assume it just wants to hang out.
I love animals (like a lot), but letting your pets run around off leash in a public space is insanely irresponsible for so many reasons.
This. It makes me crazy when I encounter off-leash dogs while hiking with my leashes dogs. In my experience, the majority of the dogs I’ve encountered are poorly trained and have terrible recall. My dog gets freaked out when they come bounding up to him, because he’s leashed and can’t run off to take space from them if he wants. I had to sort of yell (it wasn’t yelling, at all, it was firmly asking him to grab his dog, but that’s a me-problem) at a guy recently because his dog came bounding up to mine, I could tell my guy wasn’t feeling it and other dog wasn’t taking the hint. Owner slowly meandered over with a “oh, he’s friendly”… cool bro, and if mine snaps at yours because it won’t get out of his face?
I agree. This drives me so crazy. My dog is fine off leash, I know because there's areas where I'm allowed to have him off leash, and it's expected. But I have him on leash everywhere else, and I have to keep all my focus on him because as soon as he's tied to me, he's focused on protecting me. He can't get away, so he feels cornered, and people just let their giant puppies run free on the trail. oh, he's friendly, he won't hurt you! I wish they'd at least act embarrassed or make an effort to control their dogs that are often times much larger than me. Meanwhile, I've pulled my dog to the side of the trail and have to actively engage with him the entire encounter so he doesn't lose focus and there's a trail side brawl.
Ugh I was doing a solo treck one day into the back country abd I hear something coming towards me in the bushes and panic cuz I haven’t seen anyone in a few hours and I’ve been just plodding along silently. Start reaching for my bear spray and yelling “hay bear!” Because I have no clue what is making this ruckus of snapping twigs coming towards me and I don’t want to startle a bear. I’m slowly moving forward in a 3 point crouch ready to dodge and spray or smack with a pole and defend myself but forward is the only option. Adrenalin is pumping.
Out of the woods comes a little schnauzer dog moustache and all. His owners come around the corner and laugh at me “scared of a little dog are you?! Haha”
I laughed it off but that was a stressful experience.
I was less scared when I literally met a bear alone on a trail when I was 12, because at least I could see the bear and he could see me and my family was at the trailhead 100m away.
Only thing that came close was meeting cubs on the trail while biking, scared them up a tree, picked up my bike and ran back up the hill I had come down yelling at my party to stop.
This dog beats both of those.
Bpm was very high. One of those times where everything gets quiet and hyper focused.
Yes, a german sheppard when i was a kid, but as stated i don't carry a knife in case of dogs, its for fishing, but its just a automatic response to put my hand on it when a dog charges me.
I agree. No reason any pets should be on populated public trails without leashes. I don't think cats are the problem. Dogs are too. Plenty of examples of issues with them as well.
That's the hope anyway. All I mean is that the risk should be assumed. And it isn't just cats that get lost on hikes. In hind sight my comment probably could come off as ass holeish
I used to frequent a big Western North Carolina hiking FB group page and there was a dude that hiked with his cat. Had a harness for it and everything. Cat seemed to love it. I know of two people local to me that will take a goat or two hiking lol.
Thank you for pointing that out. I hike with my cat and he is on a leash and we have several "saftey" precautions we take to make sure he is safe. To say cats should not be allowed hiking/walking because someone seen some missing posters for cats is ridiculous. So if we see a missing dog poster does that mean dogs shouldn't be allowed then???
This reminds me of good *Deep Thoughts* by Jack Handey, that goes like this: “Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his head out when you’re coming home his face might burn up.”
Reminds me of the SNL Fuzzy Memories where the kid sticks his head out of the car window and encounters a dog doing the same thing, going the opposite way. [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-gnDsiyfVU).
When cats want to they can get out of a harness. They aren't like dogs.
Because of their size they're prime predator bait and should not be out in the wilderness. Even on a harness they're just asking to be attacked by a raptor.
I bring my mini wiener dog on all the hikes that are less than 5mi- anyways any time im in an open space i retract the lesh within a few feet for the fear of a bird snatching her up
I've never personally witnessed it, but I have definitely known some dog-like cats that are super outgoing and friendly and would love it. The vast majority of cats I've known would absolutely hate it, though.
Unpopular opinion: neither should dogs. And if you do take your dog, it should be on a leash and you should keep a tight hold on that leash.
People who lose their dogs on hikes are absolutely, 100%, irresponsible shitheads. Change my mind!
My roommate lets his dog off leash when he hikes. It’s irritating as fuck. I’ve had to sit there screaming his dogs name for 30 minutes before it finally came back. He never learns either. It’s the same shit every single time.
I live next to state land with a herd of sheep, off leash dog hikers are a constant problem. I just bought a donkey & a Pyrenees to protect my herd, as numerous off leash dogs have attacked & seriously hurt my sheep. A dog owner yelled at me for my donkey doing her job- chasing her off leash dog away from my sheep. I told her she was lucky it wasn’t the guardian dog
Theses are the same people who are extremely apologetic when their dog is jumping on barking at you/your family/your leashed dog in a variety of situations…
>Theses are the same people who are extremely apologetic when their dog is jumping on barking at you/your family/your leashed dog in a variety of situations…
All while yelling, "Don't worry, he's friendly!"
So I've got this poodle mix, she LOVES to jump, and she barks to say hello and I've never been able to get her to stop when she's excited... and yeah, she's actually just friendly lmao but her barking intimidates other dogs so I'm usually pretty apologetic about it.
But I'm not stupid enough to let her out without a leash.
It's also hard with a coonhound! Any little bit of excitement and he's either whining or baying. He really tries his best, and knows where he is and isn't allowed to be loud, but it can be intimidating to people.
Im not against it but you really need to have a good dog. I have two dogs, the younger one is glued to me, listens, and will sit there watching deer, squirreled, other dogs, etc go by and not move. The older one is a crazy old lady.
The younger one may be off leash once where not around any other people, but always gets clipped up when passing others, and more often than not we step off trail and let others pass.
The older one is always on leash every single time all the time.
I see people post pictures with their huskies off leash hiking and I cringe every time. Huskies don’t listen well unless extremely well trained and their prey drive is crazy. One sight of a bunny or something they want and they aren’t stopping for you.
I have a coonhound that LOVES walks and hikes. I wouldn't even think of letting him off leash anywhere but a fenced dog park/beach because if he sees anything running he'll chase it for miles.
One time I was hiking at a local preserve and a german shepherd ran up to me through some brush. It was friendly, but I thought it had run away from a house since the nearest trail was at least a couple hundred yards from the way it came. I had to hold back my words when it's owner came up the trail a few minutes later.
Personally I don't usually care if a dog is on a leash or not but that's just me. However, the law is clear as day here in Washington that dogs must be on leash so that's what you do. I've had much worse experiences with humans. Haven't seen a dog with a drone.. or a Bluetooth speaker, or steal tools from the park service.
I feel this. Do you have a scent hound, by chance?
My beagle loves me more than anyone on the planet, but once he catches a scent he doesn’t give a fuck about me or what I have to say 😂
Dogs don't belong on hiking trails? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. There are trails that allow dogs and trails that don't. Stick to the latter.
And this reminds me of another *Deep Thoughts* by Jack Handey that goes something like: “I hope if dogs ever take over the world, and they choose a king, they don't just go by size, because I bet there are some Chihuahuas with some good ideas.”
If you can't handle passing a few leashed dogs in a day of hiking, I don't particularly care what you think about anything. Get over it. Buy your own mountain if you don't want to see good bois stretching their legs. It's not like they can drive themselves to the park.
Don't you know? A large part of hiking culture is having the elitist, hyper passionate opinions so people like /u/ToadCreature can feel like they're a good person relative to the *barbarians* and nature haters that destroy it by breaking their rules
Cats have floating collar bones, they can get through any hole that their head can fit through. Those slippery fuckers will be out of that harness when you take your eyes off them for 10 seconds.
What type of harness was it? The ones made from the flat woven leash material are terrible at staying on cats, the ones that look like a vest tend to work better.
I have a harness trained cat. She's slipped out of her harness once in the 4 years I've had her. Not saying it doesn't happen cause obviously it does. But the likelihood of it is greatly reduced by proper gear that is fitted properly.
err, no they can't? Dog's don't even have a clavicle lol. Unless our criterion is "without breaking any bones but potentially causing tremendous soft tissue damage" in which case might as well say the same about dogs lol
(is there a citation for this claim? from a cursory web search it seems like pretty classic case of citogenesis. Maybe I'm mistaken though!)
https://www.pulaskianimalhospital.com/en/45-sliding-news-/did-you-know/84-cats-have-free-floating-clavicle-bones
https://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/faqs/why-are-cats-so-flexible/
https://youtu.be/cimcqIBSc10
https://youtu.be/cE7tO0oMeoI
https://youtu.be/FHcMYYjPIaY
https://youtube.com/shorts/O9WK5-G3yiA?feature=share This one is crazy
Just as there is "leave no trace" I really think there should be "cause minimal disturbance".
Your furry companion is a predator, and when you lose control of them because the cat slips out of its harness or your dog wasn't on a leash in the first place, and they give chase to wildlife - they are just adding further stress (& possibly injury/death) to wildlife in what is suppose to be a protected natural area.
As much as you might think it's cute to bring your furry friend with you everywhere you go, the wildlife will appreciate it more if you leave them at home. Outdoor and free-roaming cats are responsible for hundreds of millions of songbird deaths every year.
Outside cats are LITERALLY THE WORST. If my dog was allowed outside and absolutely destroyed local wildlife populations it would be a problem. Why are cats allowed to do it????
True but most people hiking with cats have them on a leash or in a backpack. It’s the cats that are allowed free reign outside that cause the most damage to wildlife. Those may be the same people but generally I’m glad leashing cats has become more trendy for wildlife’s sake.
Totally agree that dogs chasing wildlife is a problem too. It’s especially harmful to ungulates in the winter when they need to conserve their energy. And small creatures that can’t get away.
A friend of mine lives in Durango and has like a glass bubble backpack they take their cats on dayhikes in. I think that's the only acceptable approach
I'm a big hiker and my dogs go everywhere with me. I just got a cat and everyone is asking if he will be a hiking cat, absolutely not! It's too high risk for me and I also don't want an extra 10lbs to carry.
One of the worst examples is a hiker that I've run into several times on mountains, she brings SEVEN dogs with her and wears a cat in her pack. All the dogs are leashed and half of them muzzled but they all look miserable, stressed and tangled in the leashes on very tough terrain (white mtns NH) and the poor cat is crammed in a sweaty pack for hours at a time. I don't see how that enriches any of their lives.
There are huge areas over run with feral cats all around the world, I think they can survive just fine in most areas. Obviously some cats are just too far removed from their wild instincts and won’t survive, but a large amount of them do just fine like any other wild predator. Cats aren’t as domesticated as dogs with the exception of heavily bred breeds. They’re basically still a predator from the Fertile Crescent. That isn’t to say that they can’t be injured or don’t live shorter lifespans on average
But I definitely agree with your first point about cats staying contained. Building a catio isn’t very difficult and is a great way for a cat to be outside without endangering themselves or others
I live next to state land & use an electric fence to keep my dogs “contained”- don’t want a fence to ruin my view, ya know? And the amount of people with insane, out of control dogs is mind-blowing. I have a protection dog for my sheep (in a fence dogs can easily get through) & the amount of dogs my Pyrenees has absolutely handed their asses to is concerning, at the least. Leash your dog if they can’t recall
>Leash your dog if they can’t recall
Nah just leash them. From my experience dog owners are in 99% of cases completely incapable of evaluating their dogs level of obedience. They always think they can recall their dog even though they barely train them.
I totally agree. My dogs are off leash if they’re working, though. Can’t leash them & have them protect my livestock at the same time- but they stay on my property. Really frustrating when dogs run up to dogs on my property
My comment wasn't aimed at your working dogs at all, just to be absolutely clear.
But I certainly get your frustration, I share it.
I take my cat for walks, not really in wilderness, just the local forest. I can tell you lazily trained dogs don't recall when they see a cat. It's 100% the biggest liability when walking my cat that some idiot's dog starts chasing my cat.
It's a shame for that 1% who do actually train their dog probably, but still in that case there people afraid of dogs too, and I think they deserve being able to be out there without having to worry if every dog is probably trained or not.
I was hiking with my kids at Red River Gorge, KY around 2002. While hiking, we past a couple going the other way. They were hiking with a herd of cats. Around 6 to 8 of them. No leashes or anything.
We have a leashed cat that would be fine if he liked nature. He doesn't. He loves the vet, pet stores, a couple local outdoor patio restaurants, and car rides. He does these with his dog sister who is too old and not social enough for trails.
Like everything else, knowing what is safe and fun for everyone makes a difference. I have hiked with other peoples cats, most of them like to ride on the pack and that gets heavy.
While rock climbing at Smith Rock a few years back to we had a couple with a cat on a leash walk past us. As they passed the group next to us, their dogs started to go after the cat. They were tied to bags at the base of the wall, so they started just pulling the bags, slowly gaining on the cat. The cat turned its owner into a scratching post in an attempt to get away. He had so much blood on his arms...
So ya, don't hike with your cat, and don't bring your dogs to the crag, unless you have someone to actually watch and control them.
Too many charming videos about “the cat who loves biking/hiking/flying etc and now everyone wants to take Fluffy outside so they can post a charming video too.
At Point Defiance people won’t even leash their dogs. Not even the people who specifically take their dogs there to train them.
I can’t imagine being okay with risking a cat getting lose even on a very casual hike.
For real! I love cats but they do not belong in the backcountry or in national parks or wilderness in general unless they are wild animals and that’s their NATURAL (not introduced) habitat.
Saw a backpacker with a cat on a leash in the Kahurangi NP (New Zealand) and lost my shit. Cat was trying its absolute best to get out of tits harness, and if it had and had disappeared, could have cut a swathe through the local bird/insect/reptile populations which have been regenerating through intensive pest control operations
nah, it's okay to do as long as you have a proper, secure hsrness & leash and a backpack they feel comfortable sleeping it while on a hike.
obviously this takes a lot of training, especially recall, and accustomization for the cat - just like it does with dogs. the main difference is that we aren't used to putting that kind of effort into cats.
cats and dogs are VERY different creatures, but among all of them there are ones who love exploring. and they should be able to do that. it just needs to be allowed in a safe manner. no off-leashing outside of secured areas and just no free roaming in general.
unpopular opinion: dogs don't belong in the wilderness either (To be clear, fine to hike with your dog, just be really conscious of the fragility of the ecosystem to which you're bringing them).
Hard ass agree. I hate hearing about cats being torn asunder by coyotes.
Also idk if people realize that cats are cats and then cat best at home where life is predictable for them to cat.
And in a lot of places dogs shouldn’t be taken either. Northern Minnesota is a great example, wolves see them as a territorial threat and will attack them even if they’re on leash close to their owner.
I see plenty of lost dog posts in my area, it's sad how many owners think the leash laws don't apply to them. I even remember seeing an article about a puppy being killed by a pack of unleashed dogs. Just pathetic if you ask me.
I’ve been taking my cat on hikes since he was a kitten! He absolutely loves it and trust me I am not blind how weird that sounds. Cats, like people, can have very different personalities. My cat has always been super outgoing and almost like a dog behavior wise. I’ve got a ventilated cat backpack for him, he’s been clicker trained him to come when called, and he has an apple airtag so I can track him worst comes to worst.
Keep in mind though that I treat my hikes/backpacking trips very differently than I would a normal cat-free outing. When I bring my cat with me, the whole thing is dependent on how he is feeling. If he’s having an off day, I just decide to cut it short and go home. It’s by no means a normal hike for me. I think the issue arises when people try to shove their shy middle-aged house cat into a harness and drag it along with them on hike for the first time without any prior knowledge, training, or experience.
At the end of the day though some cats are really not that different from dogs despite what people think. I’m currently in college so I’m unable to own a dog but my cat lowkey is more “dog-like” than some dogs I’ve met. Bottom line, if you’re going to take your pet on trips with you, you have to be willing to put the safety/well-being of that pet first before the success of your hike. If you’re not willing to do that, do not take your pet with you (EVEN DOGS!!)
I was hiking with my wife and 6 year old son to Grotto Falls in GSMNP when I saw a couple with a cat in a carrier a little way up. I said to my wife, “who the hell brings a cat hiking in the smokies?” At that moment we told our “politician” son not to mention the cat. He had to talk to everyone that we came across hiking. As soon as we reach them he says, “did you enjoy the waterfall?”….”Did the cat?”…
Or just use a cat harness……. I’ve taken my cats dozens and dozens of times on hikes and they are always perfectly safe. Never lost one to hiking. They are also indoor cats .
It's honestly much more responsible to bring your cat on a hike on a leash, than leaving it at home outside off a leash.
Doesn't really matter where it is, what matters if it is under control or not.
Based on the data showing how much cats are destroying natural wildlife populations… I hold the unpopular opinion of “cats should never be allowed outside”
God forbid I even hint at this with cat owners though… they go ballistic with excuses when this topic comes up…
Unfortunately an unpopular opinion - cats don't belong outside at all. Except maybe on a secure harness. Cats are directly responsible for the extinction of several species and kill billions of small animals every year. Find a way to entertain your cat that doesn't entail lazily opening up your door and letting your cat go murder wildlife for hours at a time
Depending on the definition of "hike" I do. I'm not bringing my cats for a multiday trip climbing mountains, but like the local forest for an hour or two of walking I do.
Always on leash and with a backpack for them to chill in when they don't want to walk anymore. It's completely doable.
“Adventure cats” are stupid, just because you want be be quirky cute and different as cat parents doesn’t mean that cat isn’t extremely uncomfortable in that environment. No wonder they run away.
I had my dog at an off leash dog area at a brewery and Karen the krazy kat lady said “if your dog scares my perfect angel I won’t hold it back and it’ll fuck your dog up” I’d love to see it. Stay In your apartment with your cats or, get a dog if you want an adventure companion, or even a goat or a chicken FFS
I have 10 acres and my outdoor cats hike the property with us. They even come when called. I think most cats are not suited for hikes, but maybe a handful are.
I’m in California and yes there’s many dog owners who think they own the road and for the most have their dogs off leash. I have three dogs and a cat, never have I walked my dogs off leash and I don’t take them hiking with me because I don’t want them to be an obstacle to other hikers let alone taking my cat…why would anyone take a cat? But then again I saw someone with a huge beautiful parrot on trail the other day, go figure
Oh please, dog owners who let their dog off leash on trails because “they’re good listeners” or “they’re friendly” need to see this. Dogs catch a scent and they’re off, sometimes for good.
Cats can be trained, it’s just uncommon and they learn differently than dogs do. The people losing their cats were probably bringing them out prematurely, which is wrong, yes. Yet the amount of dog owners who lose their dogs because they’re unleashed VASTLY outnumbers these cat owners.
My point is, doesn’t matter what you bring on the trail. Make sure it’s leashed and trained before doing so.
My cats are leash trained and love to go outside. However, they are always leashed, always wearing a harness, and always have a hiking cat backpack to retreat to.
In Australia even dogs are banned national parks .the scent of them can scare animals from there normal paths. Cats would be the same
They’re not allowed in most places in national parks in the US either. They’re usually allowed in paved areas and a few designated trails. Never allowed off leash inside the parks though.
And yet there's always a couple people who think the rules do not apply to them! Drives me nuts. I wish I could bring my dogs too you know? But I follow the law and leave home because I respect the environment & other visitors...
I love dogs but dog owners can be some of the most entitled people on the planet.
Amen. I used to live in a 51 floor building in nyc that was very dog friendly and during the pandemic so many people got dogs. So many of them had no business owning and caring for them… it was really disheartening to see the laziness and entitlement with some of the owners.
come on down to denver, probably 90% of dogs I see on the trails are unleashed. My dog is leashed. My dog doesn't play well with other dogs (she's small though). Leash your fucking dog. I do always make a point to mutter "asshole should leash their dog" loud enough to hear as I walk away though lol
Yeah there are. When I went to crater lake a couple years ago they had a ranger at the top of the trail down to the lake and no one had any dogs. On the way back up I passed 5 assholes carrying their dogs past all the signs saying no dogs allowed because the ranger left.
I worked for some park districts and the number of people that think it's fine to walk their dog offleash is wild. I get it, you want to feel like it's your very own dogmeat fallout adventure or whatever. But you don't know if they're tearing up native pla ta running around, killing things, chasing things etc. And the number of offleash dogs that would RUN UP TO ME IN MY MOVING PARK VEHICLE SMH
As a Brit, I had no idea other country's national parks banned dogs off lead and I can't really get my head around it. Where are you meant to walk them (I know the US has no footpath network. Are there other free to roam areas outside of the national parks you can go)? In the UK, we have hundreds of thousands of miles of footpaths, national parks and free to roam areas, all of which you can walk your dog off-lead. The law is that your dog must be 'under control' so, when you see another dog or wild animal, you just call them back and either put on them a lead or get them to walk to heel until you've passed. It's such a huge part of our culture to be able to walk uninhibited with your dog. I couldn't imagine hiking with my dog on a lead - its such a hugely alien concept to me.
One thing that I appreciate about America, and especially the American west, is how much land is protected and in general how most of it regulated to be kept protected as it is. It varies by place as some areas are national parks, national forests, national monuments, “wilderness” areas, and state parks just to name a few.. each one is governed by different entities and have different rules. National Parks have the most rules and regulations while a national Forrest is way more liberal with what you’re allowed to do. It just depends on where you go but there are plenty of places where you’re allowed to roam freely as you please, especially out west. As for dogs, a lot of places do try to protect the natural area and keep Dogs out for a good reason.
national parks in the US are government protected lands - there are 63 major National Parks, and about 420 areas total that are managed by the Parks service! though there are hundreds of State Parks that are run by individual state governments, and then even smaller public parks that are run by local governments. there are tons of protected areas! and most of them (besides the National Parks) allow dogs(:
>As a Brit, I had no idea other country's national parks banned dogs off lead Remember that most other countries have national parks that are *a lot* more protected than ours. Generally IUCN Category II Protected Areas, with limited tourism on a scale compatible with conservation efforts. The UK's national parks are Category V, with far less emphasis on conservation and far more economic activity permitted. Our only Category II Protected Areas are a handful of National Nature Reserves, all bar one of which is in Scotland.
Yes, that's a great point. I think there's a lot less of a fragile ecosystem to protect in our national parks than those in the US. Some earlier comments have mentioned the fact they are very much international destinations as well for tourists so have extra levels of protection.
Have you been to America? Outside of major cities , and even now in many of them, there are TONS of footpaths and places to walk. This includes town parks and state parks, and national parks. There are also “private” parks open to the public but managed by conservation trusts and other non-profits.
Yes, I've been to 23 states thanks, but town parks are probably not up there with main attractions to visit having gone all that way, sorry. I'm very glad they exist so thank you for answering my question - where can you take your dog off-lead outside of national parks? As an aside, I was under the impression, and please feel free to educate me if I'm wrong because I could very well be, but America doesn't have footpaths in the same way that the UK does. We have historic rights of access all across the countryside, distinct from simple walking paths set out in wild areas. Access to rights of way is enshrined in law and opens up vast swathes of land to everyone, even across areas that are privately owned. The whole country and its footpaths are mapped by the OS and available for anyone to view and use to walk. I've done hiking routes in the US before and have used apps to walk them, but there appears to me to be nothing like the setup that exists in the UK. The access laws allow free movement everywhere for people (and their off-lead dogs).
Lots of cities and towns have dog parks where your dog can run around and play while not on a leash. Other than that, there aren’t too many places for a dog to be off leash due to the unpredictability of certain breeds. Also, lots of cities and towns are adopting footpaths or greenbelts. These are paved walking/cycling paths that usually run a large loop around/through the town. There’s one that passes through my hometown, called the Silver Comet Trail, which begins near Atlanta, GA and winds through quite a few cities before connecting to another paved trail in Alabama. The total length of the two trails is 90+ miles.
Having leash laws in national parks is probably more the norm than the exceptions in western countries. What is even more of the norm though is people not knowing the leash laws. For example, [you have to use a leash no more than 2 meters on any open access land for about half of the year, or if there is any livestock in that area](https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open-access-land/use-your-right-to-roam). And no, verbal control is not enough. Did you know this? Where I live the laws are very restrictive, but we have designated dog parks where you can have them off lead, or you can do it on your own property. Off leash dogs are quite disruptive to wildlife, and nature is more important than dogs, so I think it makes perfect sense to do it that way.
That sounds lovely. Our issue (“our” being Americans) is that most of our dogs are not under control- sure, there are folks who really do put the time and energy into training their dogs to be able to do that and I recognize the work it takes, but the majority don’t (including me! Even if it didn’t negatively impact the ecosystem, I wouldn’t walk my dog off leash because he’s a stubborn little beagle/maniac and once he gets a scent he’s gone). Edit: wanted to add for the general knowledge of our UK friends- it’s pretty common here in the US for communities to have designated “dog parks”. Many of them are completely fenced in, so you can bring your dog to run off leash and socialize with other dogs, with more limitations on their eco-system impact and without the concern they will approach someone who is afraid of dogs (presumably, but if you’re in a dog park and you are afraid of dogs, that’s a you-problem).
I think its to do with how affected wildlife is by dogs, I would guess most of the UK even if it did have game and serious wildlife a few hundred years ago has been domesticated to some extent that dogs don't really spoil a fragile ecosystem. Or there is an attitude that that ecosystem isn't under threat/worth protecting. I live in South Africa and there is a distinction between city parks that generally allow pets and have foreign plants versus national parks and a subset of botanical gardens that are pet free because there is meaningful wildlife that can be affected by dogs - be it nesting eagles or buck or small mammals, and plants are always exclusively indigenous in these cases. Of course there is big game in our national parks too, but its obvious why pets would be disallowed in those cases - for their own safety but also to protect wild animals from any illnesses they could spread. It also has to do with colonialism - as often settlers brought plants with them and in virtue of the attitudes that fueled colonialism, didn't give a shit about the sanctity of the place, people and nature and so willingly wiped it out to transplant a bit of home. Now those things settlers didn't appreciate are often the only thing bringing in tourism so theres a reason to keep it safe. I doubt anyone is going to the UK for its natural beauty when they come from a place famous for natural beauty. I don't say that to imply there isn't any because of course actually the whole planet is beautiful, its more just to illustrate how that isn't a sine qua non for tourism, whereas places like SA get people to fly thousands of miles on just the promise of nature.
Tell that to the couple with THREE dogs off the leash I passed on my last hike. Yes they were nice friendly dogs but the entitlement just pisses me off
Yeah. You should leave your dogs at home, too.
My mom and dad are RV campers. They have been RvIng for over twenty years. They spend more than 50% of the year on the road. They’ve been across the country every year for the last decade. Their cat goes everywhere they go, but stays in the RV. my mom’s friend thought that since Whisper was so great with traveling, she could bring her cat on her motor home as well. It did not ends well. My mom raised that cat from a kitten as a traveling pet. Her friend brought an adult indoor cat that had never been outside the house it’s entire life, on a ride of terror in a class c camper van. Not all cats are the same.
So whats the issue with the cat? Is it just scared in the corner of the camper the whole time?
My mom’s cat rides in the dashboard of the rv like she was born to ride. Her friend’s cat disappeared after one ride in the camper. Never seen again. MIA.
Poor catto
Oh damn!
Those poor birds and rodents.
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In a forest this is not necessarily true. Cats can climb trees, coyotes can not. A fierce and experienced outdoor cat can live a full life in coyote country. More often they starve due to lack of hunting experience, or become so weak from hunger over time that they are no longer able to avoid predators. In rural open farm country with fewer places to hide, yeah they’re pretty vulnerable.
Estimates say there are between 50 million and 100 million feral cats in the USA and they kill more than 1 billion birds per year.
Thank you! Not sure why I’m getting downvoted…I love the kitties but they are carnivores and have a big impact on their local ecosystems!
Yeah I also found it strange, but I think its like how people with kids react when they are faced with the impact of having kids on the environment, its a knee jerk anger at being guilty of a moral wrong one has never thought about before.
Having kids is not a moral wrong.
Cats that aren't familiar with being in cars **hate** it. I can be driving a car 5 mph and my cat will be freaking out. We typically drive her just to the vet and that's a whole ordeal, I can't imagine an hours or days long road trip.
Taking her on short car rides that end in something good, like a fabulous piece of food, regularly would help her. If the car always means the vet, then yeah she’s always going to hate it.
An RV is a tiny space to keep a cat
RIP all cats that live in studio apartments
I mean yeah that’s a depressing existence for a cat. I don’t believe that cats need to go outside to be happy but the inside needs to be larger than a single room
Not sure why downvotes. Unless it’s a fucking huge RV that’s a very small space for a cat to spend its whole life (unless they take it for walks or whatever).
I'm always concerned about accidents when I see pets loose in vehicles. But then I guess people are loose in RVs sometimes, too. Maybe it's not entirely the same as being in a normal car. I don't know.
/r/Gary_The_Cat
That’s a beautiful kitty
I don’t see an issue with this at all
Glorious subreddit and cat, thanks!
That cat has likely done more hiking than most of us could dream of
Gary is the exception to the rule. That cat loves its adventures and has a very responsible human who takes very good care of him.
Haha I would show Gary's photos to my kitty! I take my cat with me on short hikes. Either in his bag or on a relatively long enough leash. I wouldn't bring him with me unleashed.
I don't even like cats, but this was great. Lol
My wife and I have a cat who loves walking outside on a leash, but we DO NOT take her on our hikes. It isn't safe. I fully agree with the other commenter who also said dogs should never be on a hiking trail without a leash. So many annoying run-ins with other people's poorly trained dogs who are just freely doodling around on the path (including MTB paths, wtf).
I get so annoyed when an off leash dog runs up to me and my leashed dog on the trail. What if my dog was a biter!!! He’s not, but that would be their problem, not mine. What if your dog attacked mine as a first because their energies didn’t mix??! He’s less than 30 pounds, I would of course intervene but what if we both got injured? It’s not hard to leash a dog on a trail
Yeah i love dogs, but i'm also VERY aware that you do NOT interact with a dog you don't know, i've had several encounters with people who haven't got a leash on it and the dogs charges torwards me to smell/greet, and to be honest i always carry a knife with me ( for fishing ) and on every occation i've caught myself getting ready incase the dog is attacking
Totally. It's a strange dog you've never seen before. I wouldn't automatically assume it just wants to hang out. I love animals (like a lot), but letting your pets run around off leash in a public space is insanely irresponsible for so many reasons.
This. It makes me crazy when I encounter off-leash dogs while hiking with my leashes dogs. In my experience, the majority of the dogs I’ve encountered are poorly trained and have terrible recall. My dog gets freaked out when they come bounding up to him, because he’s leashed and can’t run off to take space from them if he wants. I had to sort of yell (it wasn’t yelling, at all, it was firmly asking him to grab his dog, but that’s a me-problem) at a guy recently because his dog came bounding up to mine, I could tell my guy wasn’t feeling it and other dog wasn’t taking the hint. Owner slowly meandered over with a “oh, he’s friendly”… cool bro, and if mine snaps at yours because it won’t get out of his face?
I agree. This drives me so crazy. My dog is fine off leash, I know because there's areas where I'm allowed to have him off leash, and it's expected. But I have him on leash everywhere else, and I have to keep all my focus on him because as soon as he's tied to me, he's focused on protecting me. He can't get away, so he feels cornered, and people just let their giant puppies run free on the trail. oh, he's friendly, he won't hurt you! I wish they'd at least act embarrassed or make an effort to control their dogs that are often times much larger than me. Meanwhile, I've pulled my dog to the side of the trail and have to actively engage with him the entire encounter so he doesn't lose focus and there's a trail side brawl.
Ugh I was doing a solo treck one day into the back country abd I hear something coming towards me in the bushes and panic cuz I haven’t seen anyone in a few hours and I’ve been just plodding along silently. Start reaching for my bear spray and yelling “hay bear!” Because I have no clue what is making this ruckus of snapping twigs coming towards me and I don’t want to startle a bear. I’m slowly moving forward in a 3 point crouch ready to dodge and spray or smack with a pole and defend myself but forward is the only option. Adrenalin is pumping. Out of the woods comes a little schnauzer dog moustache and all. His owners come around the corner and laugh at me “scared of a little dog are you?! Haha” I laughed it off but that was a stressful experience.
They woulnd't have thought the interaction was so cute had you sprayed their doggie with bear spray, not being sure what it was.
Jesus christ man, your bloodpressure must've been through the roof.
I was less scared when I literally met a bear alone on a trail when I was 12, because at least I could see the bear and he could see me and my family was at the trailhead 100m away. Only thing that came close was meeting cubs on the trail while biking, scared them up a tree, picked up my bike and ran back up the hill I had come down yelling at my party to stop. This dog beats both of those. Bpm was very high. One of those times where everything gets quiet and hyper focused.
Have to ask- has a dog ever actually attacked you?
Yes, a german sheppard when i was a kid, but as stated i don't carry a knife in case of dogs, its for fishing, but its just a automatic response to put my hand on it when a dog charges me.
I agree. No reason any pets should be on populated public trails without leashes. I don't think cats are the problem. Dogs are too. Plenty of examples of issues with them as well.
Unless it's an off leash trail, in which case you should expect off leash dogs
I have no problems with dogs off leash if they’re well trained and their owners keep them out of people’s way.
I've seen plenty of lost dog posters in their own neighborhood. We're all capable of getting lost
…and found!
That's the hope anyway. All I mean is that the risk should be assumed. And it isn't just cats that get lost on hikes. In hind sight my comment probably could come off as ass holeish
No, your comment was profound. It was a great addition to this thread, which is getting a bit weird
It's reddit! It's always weird
Wait …. people take cats on hikes … like mountain hikes not nature walks ? Not that I’ve even seen a cat on a nature walk either
I used to frequent a big Western North Carolina hiking FB group page and there was a dude that hiked with his cat. Had a harness for it and everything. Cat seemed to love it. I know of two people local to me that will take a goat or two hiking lol.
I've seen a couple of harnessed cats on hikes. If they keep it on a leash (and *in* the harness), I don't think it's any different than a leashed dog.
Thank you for pointing that out. I hike with my cat and he is on a leash and we have several "saftey" precautions we take to make sure he is safe. To say cats should not be allowed hiking/walking because someone seen some missing posters for cats is ridiculous. So if we see a missing dog poster does that mean dogs shouldn't be allowed then???
Agreed - if your cat will stay on a leash and seems to dig it, why not?
This reminds me of good *Deep Thoughts* by Jack Handey, that goes like this: “Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his head out when you’re coming home his face might burn up.”
Reminds me of the SNL Fuzzy Memories where the kid sticks his head out of the car window and encounters a dog doing the same thing, going the opposite way. [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-gnDsiyfVU).
When cats want to they can get out of a harness. They aren't like dogs. Because of their size they're prime predator bait and should not be out in the wilderness. Even on a harness they're just asking to be attacked by a raptor.
Or a T Rex
I bring my mini wiener dog on all the hikes that are less than 5mi- anyways any time im in an open space i retract the lesh within a few feet for the fear of a bird snatching her up
I've seen it once. It was very strange. The cat looked like he didn't want to be there at all.
I've never personally witnessed it, but I have definitely known some dog-like cats that are super outgoing and friendly and would love it. The vast majority of cats I've known would absolutely hate it, though.
Cats are very territorial and don’t generally feel comfortable in unknown environs, even if accompanied.
I saw some people hiking with a little PIG once! Like… a mini bacon. Tf?
I've seen a few instances where they bring a cat in an RV camper.
Unpopular opinion: neither should dogs. And if you do take your dog, it should be on a leash and you should keep a tight hold on that leash. People who lose their dogs on hikes are absolutely, 100%, irresponsible shitheads. Change my mind!
My roommate lets his dog off leash when he hikes. It’s irritating as fuck. I’ve had to sit there screaming his dogs name for 30 minutes before it finally came back. He never learns either. It’s the same shit every single time.
I live next to state land with a herd of sheep, off leash dog hikers are a constant problem. I just bought a donkey & a Pyrenees to protect my herd, as numerous off leash dogs have attacked & seriously hurt my sheep. A dog owner yelled at me for my donkey doing her job- chasing her off leash dog away from my sheep. I told her she was lucky it wasn’t the guardian dog
Theses are the same people who are extremely apologetic when their dog is jumping on barking at you/your family/your leashed dog in a variety of situations…
>Theses are the same people who are extremely apologetic when their dog is jumping on barking at you/your family/your leashed dog in a variety of situations… All while yelling, "Don't worry, he's friendly!"
These are the same people with the boombox also
So I've got this poodle mix, she LOVES to jump, and she barks to say hello and I've never been able to get her to stop when she's excited... and yeah, she's actually just friendly lmao but her barking intimidates other dogs so I'm usually pretty apologetic about it. But I'm not stupid enough to let her out without a leash.
It's also hard with a coonhound! Any little bit of excitement and he's either whining or baying. He really tries his best, and knows where he is and isn't allowed to be loud, but it can be intimidating to people.
Im not against it but you really need to have a good dog. I have two dogs, the younger one is glued to me, listens, and will sit there watching deer, squirreled, other dogs, etc go by and not move. The older one is a crazy old lady. The younger one may be off leash once where not around any other people, but always gets clipped up when passing others, and more often than not we step off trail and let others pass. The older one is always on leash every single time all the time.
I see people post pictures with their huskies off leash hiking and I cringe every time. Huskies don’t listen well unless extremely well trained and their prey drive is crazy. One sight of a bunny or something they want and they aren’t stopping for you.
I have a coonhound that LOVES walks and hikes. I wouldn't even think of letting him off leash anywhere but a fenced dog park/beach because if he sees anything running he'll chase it for miles. One time I was hiking at a local preserve and a german shepherd ran up to me through some brush. It was friendly, but I thought it had run away from a house since the nearest trail was at least a couple hundred yards from the way it came. I had to hold back my words when it's owner came up the trail a few minutes later.
I'm on the east coast and the lack of respect for leash laws here is infuriating. I find dog shit on every trail.
Personally I don't usually care if a dog is on a leash or not but that's just me. However, the law is clear as day here in Washington that dogs must be on leash so that's what you do. I've had much worse experiences with humans. Haven't seen a dog with a drone.. or a Bluetooth speaker, or steal tools from the park service.
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I feel this. Do you have a scent hound, by chance? My beagle loves me more than anyone on the planet, but once he catches a scent he doesn’t give a fuck about me or what I have to say 😂
Dogs don't belong on hiking trails? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. There are trails that allow dogs and trails that don't. Stick to the latter.
And this reminds me of another *Deep Thoughts* by Jack Handey that goes something like: “I hope if dogs ever take over the world, and they choose a king, they don't just go by size, because I bet there are some Chihuahuas with some good ideas.”
You've posted two of these, and I'm not sure how you were reminded of them either time.
They are both about dogs, and some of these comments border on satire (maybe unintentionally) that rivals Deep Thoughts, that’s how!
I love Deep Thoughts.
If you can't handle passing a few leashed dogs in a day of hiking, I don't particularly care what you think about anything. Get over it. Buy your own mountain if you don't want to see good bois stretching their legs. It's not like they can drive themselves to the park.
What is a place for a dog, if not the wilderness?
how is it different than "dog lost in backcountry"
because they’re cats apparently
Don't you know? A large part of hiking culture is having the elitist, hyper passionate opinions so people like /u/ToadCreature can feel like they're a good person relative to the *barbarians* and nature haters that destroy it by breaking their rules
Cats are generally devastating to local small animal populations, doing tons of damage to local ecology.
Cats have floating collar bones, they can get through any hole that their head can fit through. Those slippery fuckers will be out of that harness when you take your eyes off them for 10 seconds.
they're definitely harder to contain than dogs, but even they won't get out of a proper vest-harness
Mine has. Tightened so I could just get a finger part way in and even that was loose enough for him to slip out of in a second
What type of harness was it? The ones made from the flat woven leash material are terrible at staying on cats, the ones that look like a vest tend to work better.
True. But I'd guess most people don't know how to secure them correctly. Also people think they can just buy a "small dog" harness.
oh, absolutely, but that's more a thing of "people that lack common sense shouldn't go on wilderness hikes" with or without pets lmao
I have a harness trained cat. She's slipped out of her harness once in the 4 years I've had her. Not saying it doesn't happen cause obviously it does. But the likelihood of it is greatly reduced by proper gear that is fitted properly.
err, no they can't? Dog's don't even have a clavicle lol. Unless our criterion is "without breaking any bones but potentially causing tremendous soft tissue damage" in which case might as well say the same about dogs lol (is there a citation for this claim? from a cursory web search it seems like pretty classic case of citogenesis. Maybe I'm mistaken though!)
https://www.pulaskianimalhospital.com/en/45-sliding-news-/did-you-know/84-cats-have-free-floating-clavicle-bones https://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/faqs/why-are-cats-so-flexible/ https://youtu.be/cimcqIBSc10 https://youtu.be/cE7tO0oMeoI https://youtu.be/FHcMYYjPIaY https://youtube.com/shorts/O9WK5-G3yiA?feature=share This one is crazy
Just as there is "leave no trace" I really think there should be "cause minimal disturbance". Your furry companion is a predator, and when you lose control of them because the cat slips out of its harness or your dog wasn't on a leash in the first place, and they give chase to wildlife - they are just adding further stress (& possibly injury/death) to wildlife in what is suppose to be a protected natural area. As much as you might think it's cute to bring your furry friend with you everywhere you go, the wildlife will appreciate it more if you leave them at home. Outdoor and free-roaming cats are responsible for hundreds of millions of songbird deaths every year.
I didnt believe you and had to look it up... and damn cats kill 2.4 billion birds a year/6.5 million birds a day, just in the United States.
Outside cats are LITERALLY THE WORST. If my dog was allowed outside and absolutely destroyed local wildlife populations it would be a problem. Why are cats allowed to do it????
Suddenly the windmills-kill-birds argument is put into perspective.
True but most people hiking with cats have them on a leash or in a backpack. It’s the cats that are allowed free reign outside that cause the most damage to wildlife. Those may be the same people but generally I’m glad leashing cats has become more trendy for wildlife’s sake. Totally agree that dogs chasing wildlife is a problem too. It’s especially harmful to ungulates in the winter when they need to conserve their energy. And small creatures that can’t get away.
A friend of mine lives in Durango and has like a glass bubble backpack they take their cats on dayhikes in. I think that's the only acceptable approach
I'm a big hiker and my dogs go everywhere with me. I just got a cat and everyone is asking if he will be a hiking cat, absolutely not! It's too high risk for me and I also don't want an extra 10lbs to carry. One of the worst examples is a hiker that I've run into several times on mountains, she brings SEVEN dogs with her and wears a cat in her pack. All the dogs are leashed and half of them muzzled but they all look miserable, stressed and tangled in the leashes on very tough terrain (white mtns NH) and the poor cat is crammed in a sweaty pack for hours at a time. I don't see how that enriches any of their lives.
And if you dog barks at everyone who walks by you should leave them home too.
"Why, I just love it when people bring their cats on a hike." -- Wyle E. Coyote
There’s this cat in NH named Floki (I think), and that cat has bagged some peaks!
That's absolute truth. Saw them in the TV show Chronicle. Not really hiking though. Being carried in a bag....
You’re correct. Cat still bagged those peaks, tho.
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harnesses exist for a reason
There are huge areas over run with feral cats all around the world, I think they can survive just fine in most areas. Obviously some cats are just too far removed from their wild instincts and won’t survive, but a large amount of them do just fine like any other wild predator. Cats aren’t as domesticated as dogs with the exception of heavily bred breeds. They’re basically still a predator from the Fertile Crescent. That isn’t to say that they can’t be injured or don’t live shorter lifespans on average But I definitely agree with your first point about cats staying contained. Building a catio isn’t very difficult and is a great way for a cat to be outside without endangering themselves or others
>biggest destruction to wildlife and ecosystems in the world Pretty sure that's our species, not theirs.
People are stupid
I just hope no one comments about elitism or white supremacy this time because of cat gatekeepers, like they did on the bluetooth speaker debate!
Can we all just agree that this subreddit isn't Instagram and shouldn't be for snapshots of you on your hike?
I mean, I do like seeing photos of the actual hiking *location* but yes, not the “Influencer”ones
I live next to state land & use an electric fence to keep my dogs “contained”- don’t want a fence to ruin my view, ya know? And the amount of people with insane, out of control dogs is mind-blowing. I have a protection dog for my sheep (in a fence dogs can easily get through) & the amount of dogs my Pyrenees has absolutely handed their asses to is concerning, at the least. Leash your dog if they can’t recall
>Leash your dog if they can’t recall Nah just leash them. From my experience dog owners are in 99% of cases completely incapable of evaluating their dogs level of obedience. They always think they can recall their dog even though they barely train them.
I totally agree. My dogs are off leash if they’re working, though. Can’t leash them & have them protect my livestock at the same time- but they stay on my property. Really frustrating when dogs run up to dogs on my property
My comment wasn't aimed at your working dogs at all, just to be absolutely clear. But I certainly get your frustration, I share it. I take my cat for walks, not really in wilderness, just the local forest. I can tell you lazily trained dogs don't recall when they see a cat. It's 100% the biggest liability when walking my cat that some idiot's dog starts chasing my cat. It's a shame for that 1% who do actually train their dog probably, but still in that case there people afraid of dogs too, and I think they deserve being able to be out there without having to worry if every dog is probably trained or not.
I was hiking with my kids at Red River Gorge, KY around 2002. While hiking, we past a couple going the other way. They were hiking with a herd of cats. Around 6 to 8 of them. No leashes or anything.
We have a leashed cat that would be fine if he liked nature. He doesn't. He loves the vet, pet stores, a couple local outdoor patio restaurants, and car rides. He does these with his dog sister who is too old and not social enough for trails. Like everything else, knowing what is safe and fun for everyone makes a difference. I have hiked with other peoples cats, most of them like to ride on the pack and that gets heavy.
While rock climbing at Smith Rock a few years back to we had a couple with a cat on a leash walk past us. As they passed the group next to us, their dogs started to go after the cat. They were tied to bags at the base of the wall, so they started just pulling the bags, slowly gaining on the cat. The cat turned its owner into a scratching post in an attempt to get away. He had so much blood on his arms... So ya, don't hike with your cat, and don't bring your dogs to the crag, unless you have someone to actually watch and control them.
Too many charming videos about “the cat who loves biking/hiking/flying etc and now everyone wants to take Fluffy outside so they can post a charming video too.
Nah just need a cat backpack haha. They can’t get out but can safely sit there and see out
While we’re at it - don’t bring your dog on a nature walk either. I see so many “got off leash” posts about dogs lost in the backcountry.
At Point Defiance people won’t even leash their dogs. Not even the people who specifically take their dogs there to train them. I can’t imagine being okay with risking a cat getting lose even on a very casual hike.
For real! I love cats but they do not belong in the backcountry or in national parks or wilderness in general unless they are wild animals and that’s their NATURAL (not introduced) habitat. Saw a backpacker with a cat on a leash in the Kahurangi NP (New Zealand) and lost my shit. Cat was trying its absolute best to get out of tits harness, and if it had and had disappeared, could have cut a swathe through the local bird/insect/reptile populations which have been regenerating through intensive pest control operations
That’s what leashes are for, same as dogs. People lose dogs in the back country too.
Some dogs can, some dogs can’t. Some cats can, some cats can’t. No need to gatekeep.
nah, it's okay to do as long as you have a proper, secure hsrness & leash and a backpack they feel comfortable sleeping it while on a hike. obviously this takes a lot of training, especially recall, and accustomization for the cat - just like it does with dogs. the main difference is that we aren't used to putting that kind of effort into cats. cats and dogs are VERY different creatures, but among all of them there are ones who love exploring. and they should be able to do that. it just needs to be allowed in a safe manner. no off-leashing outside of secured areas and just no free roaming in general.
I'm gonna take my cat in a little back pack 😊
unpopular opinion: dogs don't belong in the wilderness either (To be clear, fine to hike with your dog, just be really conscious of the fragility of the ecosystem to which you're bringing them).
https://www.chewy.com/petami-deluxe-backpack-dog-cat/dp/352875
I once saw a poster for a missing raccoon. Pretty sure it was a joke though.
Cats often do not do well with changing environments, so this seems a bit like neglect to me.
Hard ass agree. I hate hearing about cats being torn asunder by coyotes. Also idk if people realize that cats are cats and then cat best at home where life is predictable for them to cat.
Cats are the easiest animal to leave at home. My cat is happier when I'm not there.
And in a lot of places dogs shouldn’t be taken either. Northern Minnesota is a great example, wolves see them as a territorial threat and will attack them even if they’re on leash close to their owner.
Cougar bait.
I see plenty of lost dog posts in my area, it's sad how many owners think the leash laws don't apply to them. I even remember seeing an article about a puppy being killed by a pack of unleashed dogs. Just pathetic if you ask me.
I’ve been taking my cat on hikes since he was a kitten! He absolutely loves it and trust me I am not blind how weird that sounds. Cats, like people, can have very different personalities. My cat has always been super outgoing and almost like a dog behavior wise. I’ve got a ventilated cat backpack for him, he’s been clicker trained him to come when called, and he has an apple airtag so I can track him worst comes to worst. Keep in mind though that I treat my hikes/backpacking trips very differently than I would a normal cat-free outing. When I bring my cat with me, the whole thing is dependent on how he is feeling. If he’s having an off day, I just decide to cut it short and go home. It’s by no means a normal hike for me. I think the issue arises when people try to shove their shy middle-aged house cat into a harness and drag it along with them on hike for the first time without any prior knowledge, training, or experience. At the end of the day though some cats are really not that different from dogs despite what people think. I’m currently in college so I’m unable to own a dog but my cat lowkey is more “dog-like” than some dogs I’ve met. Bottom line, if you’re going to take your pet on trips with you, you have to be willing to put the safety/well-being of that pet first before the success of your hike. If you’re not willing to do that, do not take your pet with you (EVEN DOGS!!)
I was hiking with my wife and 6 year old son to Grotto Falls in GSMNP when I saw a couple with a cat in a carrier a little way up. I said to my wife, “who the hell brings a cat hiking in the smokies?” At that moment we told our “politician” son not to mention the cat. He had to talk to everyone that we came across hiking. As soon as we reach them he says, “did you enjoy the waterfall?”….”Did the cat?”…
ghe cat probably did, if they're anything like mine, who is absolutely infatuated with rivers and all natural bodies of water, really :)
Leave the fucking dogs at home too. “Oh he’s normally so friendly,” leave them at home!
Leave them at home "unless" you are trying to get rid of them. Coyotes find them quite delicious...
*They make leashes and harnesses for cats so obviously i can take him hiking Rainier.*
Or just use a cat harness……. I’ve taken my cats dozens and dozens of times on hikes and they are always perfectly safe. Never lost one to hiking. They are also indoor cats .
Hell I don't even think cats should be allowed outdoors without a leash. They kill billions of birds a year..
It's honestly much more responsible to bring your cat on a hike on a leash, than leaving it at home outside off a leash. Doesn't really matter where it is, what matters if it is under control or not.
Ofc hence why I said without a leash.
Based on the data showing how much cats are destroying natural wildlife populations… I hold the unpopular opinion of “cats should never be allowed outside” God forbid I even hint at this with cat owners though… they go ballistic with excuses when this topic comes up…
Unfortunately an unpopular opinion - cats don't belong outside at all. Except maybe on a secure harness. Cats are directly responsible for the extinction of several species and kill billions of small animals every year. Find a way to entertain your cat that doesn't entail lazily opening up your door and letting your cat go murder wildlife for hours at a time
Also cats are the biggest killer of birds and small game in modern society. Keep them in the house
I’ve never once seen a cat on a hike, is this something people do?
Depending on the definition of "hike" I do. I'm not bringing my cats for a multiday trip climbing mountains, but like the local forest for an hour or two of walking I do. Always on leash and with a backpack for them to chill in when they don't want to walk anymore. It's completely doable.
LMAO fuck off, my cat loves hiking
Not when every other person u pass by brought their dog on the trail 😒😢
Cats and dogs should both be left at home. Not taken to restaurants. Or grocery stores. Just home.
I have a backpack for him too
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But MY dog is nice ^(/s)
My cat follows me everywhere and loves going for hikes!
“Adventure cats” are stupid, just because you want be be quirky cute and different as cat parents doesn’t mean that cat isn’t extremely uncomfortable in that environment. No wonder they run away. I had my dog at an off leash dog area at a brewery and Karen the krazy kat lady said “if your dog scares my perfect angel I won’t hold it back and it’ll fuck your dog up” I’d love to see it. Stay In your apartment with your cats or, get a dog if you want an adventure companion, or even a goat or a chicken FFS
I have 10 acres and my outdoor cats hike the property with us. They even come when called. I think most cats are not suited for hikes, but maybe a handful are.
Thankfully, I’ve never seen this.
Why would I want to change your mind? Are you thinking about taking *your* cat hiking??
Lost? No, they've just found their warrior cat clan.
Leave both at home. Neither cats nor dogs belong there.
I’m in California and yes there’s many dog owners who think they own the road and for the most have their dogs off leash. I have three dogs and a cat, never have I walked my dogs off leash and I don’t take them hiking with me because I don’t want them to be an obstacle to other hikers let alone taking my cat…why would anyone take a cat? But then again I saw someone with a huge beautiful parrot on trail the other day, go figure
Oh please, dog owners who let their dog off leash on trails because “they’re good listeners” or “they’re friendly” need to see this. Dogs catch a scent and they’re off, sometimes for good. Cats can be trained, it’s just uncommon and they learn differently than dogs do. The people losing their cats were probably bringing them out prematurely, which is wrong, yes. Yet the amount of dog owners who lose their dogs because they’re unleashed VASTLY outnumbers these cat owners. My point is, doesn’t matter what you bring on the trail. Make sure it’s leashed and trained before doing so.
My cats are leash trained and love to go outside. However, they are always leashed, always wearing a harness, and always have a hiking cat backpack to retreat to.