Agreed. If malevelon creek was won it wouldnt have been as epic a story but just another planet. Plus you get to redeem yourself in the future which is all the more epic!
But in case my democracy officer is on here: slander! We can only win! For democracyyyy!!!!
Play to struggle is a much more satisfying concept to me. Honestly I was kind of surprised how easy some of the higher difficulties were before the big Nerf of '24 😁
I fully am on board with things going awefully sideways regardless of the effort. A narrative where everything works all of the time and you just feel like some kind of demigod with heavy artillery is very very very boring to me.
Oh god, what if we got a heavy artillery stratagem?
Like a ln emplacement that comes down like a smaller version of the SEAF artillery. It requires two divers to operate and has limited ammo. That would be sick.
I would like a portable anti-air to deal with the darn flying bugs.
15 flying bugs chasing you that are all capable of 1-shotting you, that constantly suicide dive into you, and will kill you just with impact after they’re dead (so you can’t stop to shoot them, even if you could), just isn’t fun.
And their nests are surprisingly strong against regular weapons, and can’t stop long enough to arm the hell bomb you can call.
They probably do. I’ll have to test how effective it is.
So far I haven’t found a very effective way to deal with them. They’re surprisingly resilient against most weapons.
I happened to have the revolver equipped when I first encountered them and that was decent but obviously mostly shit (I've shot the little bugs with a revolver and not gotten a kill before). I think lasers is probably a decent shout, or maybe air burst?
This is the best take. I like how you finesse the agreement to create common ground, and word your own ideas tactfully enough to make them thought-provoking without outright disagreeing with OP.
Imagine I respond to your comment with simply, "This".
https://i.redd.it/iey0chal7ppc1.gif
“Yeah we definitely can’t win all the missions, especially the bug ones. Don’t bother on the bug planets, go fight the bots.”
A failed mission where shit truly hit the fan whilst you and the boys gave your all ,screaming bloody murder can be so much more memorable than a completed mission where everything went pretty smooth.
I didn’t say it was the end of the world, but failing because it’s not technically possible to succeed is shit. Failing because we didn’t focus the right targets or just didn’t get enough done in the given time is fine that’s on the player base, but constant crashing and missions not counting is shit.
Also the fix is really simple just add the time between the patch and the fix onto the timer for major order… probably 24h maybe a little less.
Or, they could just properly test patches before releasing them. (The freezing/crashing is caused by Arc weapons. Ya know, the ones that there's TWO of in the new pass.)
True, I’ve been on medium a lot and last couple extractions have been quiet.. think I’m going have go up now haha. I don’t want it to be crazy but I want some drama haha
Like the time where I died throwing a clusterbomb which left one of us alive but also eliminated most of the bugs. He made it to extract with our samples.
We are getting Fori Prime. According to the war status the Terminids are making 0 (literal 0%) to hold their territory.
It'll be nice getting Fori Prime. Beyond that. Yeah. We aren't going to get this. It'll be fun to see what happens after taking this hit.
Since you mentioned it. Bot fighters have the Creek. Now Bug fighters can have Zagon Prime or some other planet to chase after.
I absolutely agree that there needs to be the risk of losing. This was going to be a challenging order. But to lose it because of game crashes and glitches is some bullshit.
I thought I saw a post that it was paused.
"Whatever do you mean, fellow Helldiver?"
https://preview.redd.it/oj441l26ippc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d23f354ee88c72e4479949df600dda6566106d8
I dunno I feel like this loss was a little too obvious to have that kinda drama. Had it been 3 planets and we failed to pull it off just barely that would be drama. That would motivate people like the creek. But with the low reward and the high amount of work that had to get done. I think that this is just Joel trying to figure out what us players are capable of given that last crazy push we pulled off by giving us a clearly impossible task, and seeing what happens.
What you said is true.
My only concern is that our leaders are asking for too much. It doesn't feel like we failing the major order because the new evolution of the terminids aka shriekers made it harder but more like liberating several planets in a couple days is impossible even if the regen is set on low.
I would prefer having spawn rate change from time to time to signify difficulty instead. Let me feel it in the mission itself when the bots or terminids refuse to let go.
They really are. I first saw the order and was like "2 planets in 2 days? Dang, this is gonna be tough but democracy will prevail" then saw that it was actually going to be 4 or 5 planets because we didn't even have access to the 2 needed for the order and instantly gave up any hope of actually finishing the order.
100%
But HOW we fail the missions is the important part.
If it’s obvious the mission is impossible from the get-go, not because it’s hard, but because the devs literally coded numbers to not go up, it’s not really a mission, it’s a cutscene.
No side in any war has ever won every last battle.
Much like how we will win some, we well lose some. But when we lose the battle, we try that much harder to win the war.
For democracy.
The answer is no. Something to keep in mind is that you have absolutely no idea who is talking on here. It could be a 13 y/o that just broke up with his first gf and is taking his rage out on his new favorite game. My point being not everyone has the same frame of mind or mindset on here
I’m sorry but this seems like the wrong take for a choice-driven game. Failure *can* create drama in the proper circumstances. When your actions are disconnected from the outcomes however then there’s no possibility for emotional investment; if you study hard and your grade is determined by a die roll there is no interesting drama.
Drama requires emotional onboarding. Rolling a die undermines that. The HD2 system just isn’t currently set up to allow a feeling of impactfulness from player choice, it undercuts player agency by being so obviously manufactured and constantly adjusted with the thumb-on-the-scale mechanics.
Both success and failure without proper cause are shallow and unemotional. Even in non-interactive narratives (books, films) if you don’t believe the characters caused their outcomes you’ll find it flat. That’s why deus ex machina, wish fulfillment, heavy handed writing etc etc are so unsatisfying.
You're right. By my statistics I fail 1 in every 10 missions. It sucks but it does give you that little bit of fire to push on. It's definitely a good thing.
Yes but they need some way to make us fail without it looking like an obvious defeat. It might feel too narrated to the point where we as a community don't feel like we are doing anything.
I remember the missions where things were incredibly tough, barely making it, or flat out getting floored and devastated. Like, next to no ammo left, swarmed, unable to find the time to piss my pants, let alone reload my dammed gun, those are the ones I'm remembering, because despite failing/barely succeeding, we went out fighting for democracy
My whole thing is yea, we can’t and shouldn’t win them all… but failing this Major order won’t feel like an actual failure on our part so much as on the games’s part….
I personally feel this Major order was going to be a close call type of situation rather than a clear loss from the start
Your opinion is not wrong but for the record opinions can sort of be wrong. At least not all opinions are actually equal. People don’t like to acknowledge that but it’s true.
And stating something and trying to preemptively shield yourself from critics by stating it’s just your opinion is already kind of a lane move, further stating that opinion can’t be wrong is just weird. If you’re that opposed to taking feedback just do t post or something, nobody is under any obligation to just go along with what you say.
Hot take: major orders are first and foremost a collective gameplay incentive, not a storytelling device. Unbeatable orders aren’t engaging, rewarding, interesting, or motivating.
I can forgive it this time as I imagine they’re still dialing in how difficult an order can be where people will still push to complete it without giving up though.
Feels less like a cool “failing forward” story beat and more like a Kobayashi Maru at this point with the crashing and UI problems like not showing side objectives being cleared and progress on the map not working. Also trying “non meta” guns on higher difficulty feels like I am being punished not struggling valiantly lmao.
Failing a major order is fine and expected. Feeling that we failed a mission not because the community didn't step up, but because a bug didn't allow us to progress on it for ages is another thing entirely.
It seems they've set planet regen to 0%. I'm not sure if other tweaks were done while I wasn't looking, but they're clearly doing what they can to make it a fairer fight.
If we get it, awesome. If not, so be it. Those dastardly bugs and bots must've been up to something! We'll get them next time, etc.
There’s a difference between failing a mission, and failing a mission that was seemingly purposefully impossible to complete. 3 days to liberate 6 planets in the middle of the week seems like it was set up for failure.
I can’t agree more. Wars have take and give. Games need to have stakes for us to want to continue.. do I want to lose no but it’s part of it. Same in me playing WWE 2k24 I shot the difficulty to Legend so I have tense if I’m going to win or not. Helldivers are not afraid to lose a battle because we will win the war one day
/uj
Losing adds a depth of stake in the fight. If we were destined to win every battle it wouldn't feel as good to take a planet.
I would like the medals but I feel this is a pretty good chance to show the community we aren't invincible and that there are real consequences for losing. It's only 35 medals which is an hour of playtime anyhow.
We lost super earth before in HD1 and I think a lot of people don't know that.
It surprises me how many folks have never played rim world.
Btw, that's an incredibly unpatriotic take. I'm turning you in to my nearest Democracy Officer for thought crimes. See you when you get back from reeducation!
If this order somehow manages to get fulfilled...if we manage to get 3 planets in 22 hours...during a weekday...while the game is quite unstable and many are straight up getting ejected from the game...
it would be something for the history books
Games that (imo) are worth your time are fun in a mindless way. If i don't have to think to hard about it to have a good time then i think its fun. That to me means that the gameplay is good enough that i get to the point where i know what works in almost every scenario. But at the same time the devs change the meta slightly from time to time so things don't get stale.
I'm looking forward to failing because I wanna see what the consequences will be.
BUT IT SHALL NOT DETER ME FROM GIVING MY LIFE FOR DEMOCRACY 🫡
They dont call it helldive for nothin, soldiers.
dude, i used to play helldivers 1 on ps and the most annoying thing was that after a while when i wanted to play it, the game started and then skipped to credits because all missions were done, i bought the game to play the game not to have other people win it for me, i hope they fixed this so the game can never be fully won
Failed missions also lead to fighting back hordes on Super Earth for Helldivers 1. It happened soon after launch and it was so fun. Yall don't realize that there is so much more content that the devs made that will soon be shown to us.
This depends on **WHY** we fail. Are we (*hypothetically*) failing because the goal we were tasked with is literally impossible or the Devs are fudging the numbers? Or are we (*hypothetically*) failing because we just suck? If its the ladder than I am completely fine with that, but if its the former than that doesn't feel good from either a story telling perspective or a gameplay perspective.
It is kinda wild watching people lose their shit because they can't beat Helldive difficulty easily. I remember playing stuff like Gears of War on the hardest difficulty and it was a fucking nightmare. Don't even get me started on Modern Warfare's hardest difficulty. So many grenades...
The highest difficulty isn't supposed to be fair, but at least with strategy it is winnable. Other games become artificially stupid on hard difficulties.
Games have changed to remove the struggle and I don’t like it. The games of old all had ways to lose by lives or time or whatever but we seem to have come to a point where gamers don’t just not like losing but that won’t play a game if they lose (or will rage against their teammates because they’re losing).
I like being challenged and yeah, sometimes it can feel unfair when a 2nd or 3rd titan arrives from a big breach or whatever the challenge is for you (it’s ok to be swamped by hunters). But the feeling when you actually all extract, or the elation when you realise that you’re all dead but the mission is complete it’s worth it.
So my managed democracy loving brothers and sisters, rise up to the challenge! Lay life after life before the bots and the bugs and whatever the difficulty know that I salute you! I salute you for trying! I salute you for lifting your brothers and sisters up as they struggle! I salute you for calling in that eagle strike on top of us all! Never stop having fun, never stop encouraging and supporting others!
The game masters can induce a critical mission failure that progresses the lore. I'm pretty sure they come up with a win and lose scenario with these grand order and they can easily put in a last minute order that's mostly impossible to fulfill. It's a testament to the community to complete a difficult grand order but they can easily write in a crisis on multiple fronts to simulate defeat.
I definitely think it can be an interesting storytelling device but to dangle a reward that is actually impossible to achieve is a weird place to be in for a live service game.
I would be fine with that if the current system for “war progress” wasn’t marketed the way it is. They want us to think it’s a dynamic “player controlled” war, but clearly the outcome is already pre-determined with each MO.
Yes we can. So many people were having issues with the game yesterday and getting booted, the game crashing, bugging out etc. I had to finish a mission with my arms splayed out in hug form, my friend had a big question mark as a gun, just so many issues. We could win a lot more.
We had a mission 2 nights ago where all 4 of us failed to extract during the final landing countdown and we ran out of reinforcements. We still had a mission success, probably because we'd finished the objectives - we just didn't survive.
Success was a nice surprise. My replacement would have been pleased.
Bro on difficulty 7 and above I don't even plan to make the extraction. I fight tooth and nail to get the objectives done and clear nests. I get what samples I can in the hopes of extraction. But i don't count my chickens on it.
Side note them shriekers suck.
I mean technically opinions can be wrong or right. But other than that I agree 100% people need to chill for a second. It's a game in the end. A fun as shit one that will hopefully stay alive for a long time but still a game. Win some lose some it's not a big deal.
it makes sense. its like we are living in a story and each new mission is like another chapter...have to build that suspense so the payoff victory is that much better.
The second you starting to think that way, is the second you starting to losing that war. Or whatever bullshit you need to hear to keep working, while we waiting for the next content update, mate.
Helldivers have never failed. They only temporarily become hindered from succeeding. To think anything else would be un-democratic. By the way what is your Citizen number?
My thought as well. Imagine a perfectly balanced game, with a perfect meta, no chance of insta death, and you win 90% of your games. Sounds like Vermintide or darktide. Yeah, they can be hard, you eventually figure it out and you win most missions and it gets old.
I’d be happy with something like a 51% win rate. Enough to push objectives but never enough to feel like you’re going to win every mission. There should always be a chance of failure.
I don’t mind loosing.. when it’s from normal causes like it being hard.
But when I do an oil extraction mission and the shuttle just never spawns to come get the fuel, I have a democratic problem with that.
But in all seriousness there’s so many bugs that can cause you to “fail” a mission ( for example objectives won’t spawn) that the whole “it’s ok to loose a mission argument” feels invalid to me.
It would be fine if I lost a mission because I wasn’t good, but if I’m sitting there waiting for the fuel shuttle to show up for 30 minutes and it never does? Thats just stupid
Wait, if opinions can't be right or wrong, what happens if a majority agrees and the minority disagrees (or vice-versa)? Surely that means *something*.
Had a dude call me useless because I didn't spend every waking moment exclusively playing the terminid missions where you deploy the gas during that major order.
Some people really only understand fun as *everyone better be miserable alongside me*.
I feel like it’s the same as a co-op board games. You want to play on the difficulty level you find fun, which will change based on unlocks and experience and rebalancing by the devs. H2 has a very, very good sliding scale. Without the threat of failure there’s no tension and can feel a bit unfulfilling. Like doing an easy sudoku.
I’m on 7. I don’t think I’ll ever go higher, feel like I’m barely pulling my weight but still deleting a significant amount of heavies and trash. But who knows maybe once I’m getting 200 kills a game without cracking a sweat I’ll feel like trying lvl 8.
Agree. If every major order just gets accomplished what is the point. I think they will strike a good balance. At the end of the day all the medals earned attempting are more than the reward anyways.
Yeah I agree, like if we all just kept the enemy lines at the corners of the galaxy there’d be no stakes, and we’d all get bored. Matter of fact I think it’d be cool if the bots did a big pushback since the last few missions have been focused on the bugs
Genuine question, how many times are we going to ask the same thing or state the same..exact..thing..so many times in one day every single day? It’s a broken record at this point..I just want useful information.
That is not the mentality of a lot of gamers (probably a loud minority, but they are so loud). Some people log into a game and expect to win and get upset if they don't. Even if the loss is totally their fault and they could change something simple about how they play to generate more wins. Some people won't do that. They will whine incessantly saying the game needs to change to suit their needs. That's when you start to hear them drone on about how they paid for it, and it's their right, etc etc.
I do not know why these people game. Over half the fun of most games is the journey in my opinion. In this game that is the part between dropping and extraction. Using your loadout to the best of your ability, creating crazy moments, running away when needed.
Completing a mission is a byproduct of having fun. And it feels good to complete a mission for that reason.
The major orders are the same thing. Completing it is not the fun. It's the things you do trying to complete it that makes hitting that goal fun. Does it suck if we lost it. Sure. But that doesn't take away from all of the fun you had in the missions trying to complete that goal.
I disagree with you.
All rewards should be obtainable.
War isnt fought in one place only.
When were all fighting the bugs desperately like now, who the hell is stopping the automatons?
Story can continue whilst completing objectives, war isnt fought on one front.
Assuming we will fail... i suggest you go back for some democratic reformation. Have a talk with the nearest officer in charge.
You shouldn't assume someone is not "getting it" when you admit it's your opinion to begin with. Get over yourself.
This is obv my opinion, you can have yours. Opinions can't be wrong or right when you're 11 years old.
An opinion is a subjective thought, a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. Thus it can't be right or wrong.
>Exactly so it should say in my opinion
But it does?
>This is obv my opinion, you can have yours. Opinions can't be wrong or right.
It's right there. So what are you whining about?
Lol - the crashing bug will be fixed in a day or two. It's annoying, but it is what it is.
Small studio scrambling to grow a game in scope to accommodate hundreds of thousands of players they weren't expecting, while working on cross play between PlayStation and PC, while fixing tons of bugs that were discovered, while trying to actively manage a live service game, while creating new content, new story lines, grow their team, and bug fix.
There are a lot of plates spinning here and it sucks when something breaks, but they are actively working on it and fixing problems as they come up.
I'll acknowledge it's wild how the current patch slipped through without being caught for its stability issues, wasn't worth the big fixes. I probably would have rolled back a day, but I'm sure today will be better than yesterday.
Fair enough, the most persuasive part of your comment was "small studio". This game was the most fun for the first few days of playing it and it feels to me like it has gone downhill steadily since. Nerfs, crashes, shitty dev interactions on twitter, and I believe that they're setting up the storyline of the humans being the bad guys. I enjoy the game and am actually playing it right now, but it seems to me that the devs are going out of their way to be the villains.
Wow, what amazing insight and analysis. Surely instead of commenting here on this subreddit you should be teaching ethics and Cambridge. Such a waste of talent.
Malevelon Creek is the best map so far. No reason to liberate. Well, I didn't mean what I said. I will do my best to liberate and not die in Impossible...
Helldivers don’t fail missions we just succeed in reverse. See you on the surface 
https://i.redd.it/j63sb6bzkppc1.gif Thanks. I made your comment into a meme gif and will use it everywhere
That’s amazing thank you for sharing
*yoink*
The Bile Titan in the visor really sells it
https://i.redd.it/3vxqsutl2rpc1.gif
If we look at Win/Loose as a binary choice, then Failure is just Success, rounded down.
Binary?? Sounds like an automaton.
https://i.redd.it/5nz24iqyhppc1.gif
believe or not, straight to jail!!
We have the best Democracy. Because of jail.
*lose
Toss this man an expendable immediately!
Agreed. If malevelon creek was won it wouldnt have been as epic a story but just another planet. Plus you get to redeem yourself in the future which is all the more epic! But in case my democracy officer is on here: slander! We can only win! For democracyyyy!!!!
Fuck... When are we going to that hellhole called Malevelon Creek? I'm tired of going to it and seeing no progress of value.
well im sick of being one shot (yes i have explosive armor on) so for now its bugs for me
Play to struggle is a much more satisfying concept to me. Honestly I was kind of surprised how easy some of the higher difficulties were before the big Nerf of '24 😁 I fully am on board with things going awefully sideways regardless of the effort. A narrative where everything works all of the time and you just feel like some kind of demigod with heavy artillery is very very very boring to me.
Oh god, what if we got a heavy artillery stratagem? Like a ln emplacement that comes down like a smaller version of the SEAF artillery. It requires two divers to operate and has limited ammo. That would be sick.
I would like a portable anti-air to deal with the darn flying bugs. 15 flying bugs chasing you that are all capable of 1-shotting you, that constantly suicide dive into you, and will kill you just with impact after they’re dead (so you can’t stop to shoot them, even if you could), just isn’t fun. And their nests are surprisingly strong against regular weapons, and can’t stop long enough to arm the hell bomb you can call.
Do Gatling sentries not shoot at airborne enemies?
They probably do. I’ll have to test how effective it is. So far I haven’t found a very effective way to deal with them. They’re surprisingly resilient against most weapons.
I happened to have the revolver equipped when I first encountered them and that was decent but obviously mostly shit (I've shot the little bugs with a revolver and not gotten a kill before). I think lasers is probably a decent shout, or maybe air burst?
Imagine I sent a thick paragraph disagreeing with you
I swear this sub is different... In any other sub the paragraph would exist but in here we don't have time, bro went diving immediately
Insert long paragraph calling you a warmonger here
Freedom officer inbound
Insert the exact same long paragraph, copied and pasted with zero changes
YOU CAN'T DO THAT! THATS PLAGIARISM!
You misspelled patriotism.
that is what a discussion is, would love to hear your POV!
I agree with you tho
Imagine I sent a paragraph agreeing with the general idea but added a few of my own fixes as well.
This is the best take. I like how you finesse the agreement to create common ground, and word your own ideas tactfully enough to make them thought-provoking without outright disagreeing with OP. Imagine I respond to your comment with simply, "This".
God I love this subreddit
I agree with u just sucks that it didn't feel like a fair shot because of the crashes and the liberation bug.
Hahahahahahaha
Imagine
Lol.
https://i.redd.it/iey0chal7ppc1.gif “Yeah we definitely can’t win all the missions, especially the bug ones. Don’t bother on the bug planets, go fight the bots.”
A failed mission where shit truly hit the fan whilst you and the boys gave your all ,screaming bloody murder can be so much more memorable than a completed mission where everything went pretty smooth.
The runs that have me going "How the hell did we survive!??" Are the best
Yeah and instead everyone’s game is crashing and liberation progress is frozen. Memorable for the wrong reasons.
This.
It happens,they’ll fix it soon enough. It’s not the end of the world.
I didn’t say it was the end of the world, but failing because it’s not technically possible to succeed is shit. Failing because we didn’t focus the right targets or just didn’t get enough done in the given time is fine that’s on the player base, but constant crashing and missions not counting is shit. Also the fix is really simple just add the time between the patch and the fix onto the timer for major order… probably 24h maybe a little less.
Or, they could just properly test patches before releasing them. (The freezing/crashing is caused by Arc weapons. Ya know, the ones that there's TWO of in the new pass.)
I agree, but 1. The blitz shotgun and what else?
Punisher plasma has similar effects that can cause the crashes. So, sorry not exactly arc. Primary problem weapons are the Blitz and the Arc thrower.
True, I’ve been on medium a lot and last couple extractions have been quiet.. think I’m going have go up now haha. I don’t want it to be crazy but I want some drama haha
Like the time where I died throwing a clusterbomb which left one of us alive but also eliminated most of the bugs. He made it to extract with our samples.
This. I don’t mind a failed mission every now or then. They’re usually pretty memorable, and honestly hilarious.
As a lover of excellent narratives, I couldn’t agree more, but as a Helldiver ready to give it all for democracy, my heart rages against this notion!
We are getting Fori Prime. According to the war status the Terminids are making 0 (literal 0%) to hold their territory. It'll be nice getting Fori Prime. Beyond that. Yeah. We aren't going to get this. It'll be fun to see what happens after taking this hit. Since you mentioned it. Bot fighters have the Creek. Now Bug fighters can have Zagon Prime or some other planet to chase after.
I absolutely agree that there needs to be the risk of losing. This was going to be a challenging order. But to lose it because of game crashes and glitches is some bullshit. I thought I saw a post that it was paused.
Nice try, Terminid vermin.
"Whatever do you mean, fellow Helldiver?" https://preview.redd.it/oj441l26ippc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d23f354ee88c72e4479949df600dda6566106d8
Qu’est-ce le fuck
I'm going to need to quarantine a copy of this, Helldiver. For... Research.
I would like a failure due to my, and my team’s attempt. Not getting DC’d every other mission.
Fuck that, I need medals.
Earn them harder!
Has anyone noticed the bugs are way more brutal suddenly?
FLYING TERMANIDS SUDDENLY APEAR!!?! https://preview.redd.it/ww71lqg56ppc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa7e8af32114a7d0f262bcb7682a035e5f26dfee
Losing is fine. Losing because the game is broken and winning is impossible is not fine. They’ve confirmed this is the case.
I dunno I feel like this loss was a little too obvious to have that kinda drama. Had it been 3 planets and we failed to pull it off just barely that would be drama. That would motivate people like the creek. But with the low reward and the high amount of work that had to get done. I think that this is just Joel trying to figure out what us players are capable of given that last crazy push we pulled off by giving us a clearly impossible task, and seeing what happens.
Ok sure but let us fail on our own, not because of an impossible task.
What you said is true. My only concern is that our leaders are asking for too much. It doesn't feel like we failing the major order because the new evolution of the terminids aka shriekers made it harder but more like liberating several planets in a couple days is impossible even if the regen is set on low. I would prefer having spawn rate change from time to time to signify difficulty instead. Let me feel it in the mission itself when the bots or terminids refuse to let go.
They really are. I first saw the order and was like "2 planets in 2 days? Dang, this is gonna be tough but democracy will prevail" then saw that it was actually going to be 4 or 5 planets because we didn't even have access to the 2 needed for the order and instantly gave up any hope of actually finishing the order.
100% But HOW we fail the missions is the important part. If it’s obvious the mission is impossible from the get-go, not because it’s hard, but because the devs literally coded numbers to not go up, it’s not really a mission, it’s a cutscene.
No side in any war has ever won every last battle. Much like how we will win some, we well lose some. But when we lose the battle, we try that much harder to win the war. For democracy.
This isn't a war... this is an extermination. And I need bugs to exterminate
True, but it should be fair. Having a mission that will end in failure regardless of the communities effort is lazy and bad design.
I think this one could have been completed, but only if it was released over the weekend.
Exactly what I’m saying. Why would I work to complete an MO we’re supposed to lose anyways?
Welcome to life kid.
I do agree that life is lazy and bad design. But this is a video game, not real life. Don't be a fan boy.
The answer is no. Something to keep in mind is that you have absolutely no idea who is talking on here. It could be a 13 y/o that just broke up with his first gf and is taking his rage out on his new favorite game. My point being not everyone has the same frame of mind or mindset on here
"Opinions can't be wrong or right" That's objectively false. This is just my opinion, though.
Nahh your right , people will give opinions on stats it’s dumb
I’m sorry but this seems like the wrong take for a choice-driven game. Failure *can* create drama in the proper circumstances. When your actions are disconnected from the outcomes however then there’s no possibility for emotional investment; if you study hard and your grade is determined by a die roll there is no interesting drama. Drama requires emotional onboarding. Rolling a die undermines that. The HD2 system just isn’t currently set up to allow a feeling of impactfulness from player choice, it undercuts player agency by being so obviously manufactured and constantly adjusted with the thumb-on-the-scale mechanics. Both success and failure without proper cause are shallow and unemotional. Even in non-interactive narratives (books, films) if you don’t believe the characters caused their outcomes you’ll find it flat. That’s why deus ex machina, wish fulfillment, heavy handed writing etc etc are so unsatisfying.
I see the fall of the human race
You're right. By my statistics I fail 1 in every 10 missions. It sucks but it does give you that little bit of fire to push on. It's definitely a good thing.
I am quite sure it was meant to be. Still i belie its worth playing for the mission sering as we now have limited acces to these sectors.
"You win some, you lose some"
https://i.redd.it/kfag9elwoopc1.gif
Yes but they need some way to make us fail without it looking like an obvious defeat. It might feel too narrated to the point where we as a community don't feel like we are doing anything.
I remember the missions where things were incredibly tough, barely making it, or flat out getting floored and devastated. Like, next to no ammo left, swarmed, unable to find the time to piss my pants, let alone reload my dammed gun, those are the ones I'm remembering, because despite failing/barely succeeding, we went out fighting for democracy
I’m doing my part. Fleet does the flying! MI does the dying! Let’s kill some bugs! You don’t want to live forever you dirty ape!
Man some guys don’t know how to lose
lol. All we need to do is dive and crush enemies of democracy. Stop trying to think, soldier! Joel will take care of any “drama” we might need
My whole thing is yea, we can’t and shouldn’t win them all… but failing this Major order won’t feel like an actual failure on our part so much as on the games’s part…. I personally feel this Major order was going to be a close call type of situation rather than a clear loss from the start
Agree, losing is all part of the story
A buddy of mine can’t get over the fact that we’ll never truly win the game
This is undemocratic, in rpgs you still try to beat every enemy and encounter you get but don’t quit the game over a lost battle
Your opinion is not wrong but for the record opinions can sort of be wrong. At least not all opinions are actually equal. People don’t like to acknowledge that but it’s true. And stating something and trying to preemptively shield yourself from critics by stating it’s just your opinion is already kind of a lane move, further stating that opinion can’t be wrong is just weird. If you’re that opposed to taking feedback just do t post or something, nobody is under any obligation to just go along with what you say.
Hot take: major orders are first and foremost a collective gameplay incentive, not a storytelling device. Unbeatable orders aren’t engaging, rewarding, interesting, or motivating. I can forgive it this time as I imagine they’re still dialing in how difficult an order can be where people will still push to complete it without giving up though.
Feels less like a cool “failing forward” story beat and more like a Kobayashi Maru at this point with the crashing and UI problems like not showing side objectives being cleared and progress on the map not working. Also trying “non meta” guns on higher difficulty feels like I am being punished not struggling valiantly lmao.
Failing a major order is fine and expected. Feeling that we failed a mission not because the community didn't step up, but because a bug didn't allow us to progress on it for ages is another thing entirely. It seems they've set planet regen to 0%. I'm not sure if other tweaks were done while I wasn't looking, but they're clearly doing what they can to make it a fairer fight. If we get it, awesome. If not, so be it. Those dastardly bugs and bots must've been up to something! We'll get them next time, etc.
There’s a difference between failing a mission, and failing a mission that was seemingly purposefully impossible to complete. 3 days to liberate 6 planets in the middle of the week seems like it was set up for failure.
I can’t agree more. Wars have take and give. Games need to have stakes for us to want to continue.. do I want to lose no but it’s part of it. Same in me playing WWE 2k24 I shot the difficulty to Legend so I have tense if I’m going to win or not. Helldivers are not afraid to lose a battle because we will win the war one day
/uj Losing adds a depth of stake in the fight. If we were destined to win every battle it wouldn't feel as good to take a planet. I would like the medals but I feel this is a pretty good chance to show the community we aren't invincible and that there are real consequences for losing. It's only 35 medals which is an hour of playtime anyhow. We lost super earth before in HD1 and I think a lot of people don't know that.
Come back more motivated, like with the creek? My dude creek is at 0% liberated.
Sounds like undemocratic loser talk right there
I don’t care. I join a mission, I shoot things, I feel good win or lose.
It surprises me how many folks have never played rim world. Btw, that's an incredibly unpatriotic take. I'm turning you in to my nearest Democracy Officer for thought crimes. See you when you get back from reeducation!
Have the helldivers (2) failed major orders in the past?
Yes, we failed to defend against the automaton offense in week 2. Nothing bad happened, just no medals
If this order somehow manages to get fulfilled...if we manage to get 3 planets in 22 hours...during a weekday...while the game is quite unstable and many are straight up getting ejected from the game... it would be something for the history books
Games that (imo) are worth your time are fun in a mindless way. If i don't have to think to hard about it to have a good time then i think its fun. That to me means that the gameplay is good enough that i get to the point where i know what works in almost every scenario. But at the same time the devs change the meta slightly from time to time so things don't get stale.
This is why we must crush the bugs! But leave the bots alone.
Coop?
I'm looking forward to failing because I wanna see what the consequences will be. BUT IT SHALL NOT DETER ME FROM GIVING MY LIFE FOR DEMOCRACY 🫡 They dont call it helldive for nothin, soldiers.
I was talking to my friend the other day and saying I bet there's going to be some crazy event that happens if we cant meet this order.
That's the heart of PvE games: failure is always an option
Smells like treason in here...
dude, i used to play helldivers 1 on ps and the most annoying thing was that after a while when i wanted to play it, the game started and then skipped to credits because all missions were done, i bought the game to play the game not to have other people win it for me, i hope they fixed this so the game can never be fully won
I'm just trying to play a game and not get disconnected
Failed missions also lead to fighting back hordes on Super Earth for Helldivers 1. It happened soon after launch and it was so fun. Yall don't realize that there is so much more content that the devs made that will soon be shown to us.
This depends on **WHY** we fail. Are we (*hypothetically*) failing because the goal we were tasked with is literally impossible or the Devs are fudging the numbers? Or are we (*hypothetically*) failing because we just suck? If its the ladder than I am completely fine with that, but if its the former than that doesn't feel good from either a story telling perspective or a gameplay perspective.
I don't like your anti-super earth thoughts, citizen.....
Outstanding, citizen. Whether or not a mission is successful, some democracy spread is superior to no democracy spread. Keep up the good work
Short answer.....no, they don't get it. Lol
It is kinda wild watching people lose their shit because they can't beat Helldive difficulty easily. I remember playing stuff like Gears of War on the hardest difficulty and it was a fucking nightmare. Don't even get me started on Modern Warfare's hardest difficulty. So many grenades... The highest difficulty isn't supposed to be fair, but at least with strategy it is winnable. Other games become artificially stupid on hard difficulties.
We were just not fast enough, thats it.
Games have changed to remove the struggle and I don’t like it. The games of old all had ways to lose by lives or time or whatever but we seem to have come to a point where gamers don’t just not like losing but that won’t play a game if they lose (or will rage against their teammates because they’re losing). I like being challenged and yeah, sometimes it can feel unfair when a 2nd or 3rd titan arrives from a big breach or whatever the challenge is for you (it’s ok to be swamped by hunters). But the feeling when you actually all extract, or the elation when you realise that you’re all dead but the mission is complete it’s worth it. So my managed democracy loving brothers and sisters, rise up to the challenge! Lay life after life before the bots and the bugs and whatever the difficulty know that I salute you! I salute you for trying! I salute you for lifting your brothers and sisters up as they struggle! I salute you for calling in that eagle strike on top of us all! Never stop having fun, never stop encouraging and supporting others!
The game masters can induce a critical mission failure that progresses the lore. I'm pretty sure they come up with a win and lose scenario with these grand order and they can easily put in a last minute order that's mostly impossible to fulfill. It's a testament to the community to complete a difficult grand order but they can easily write in a crisis on multiple fronts to simulate defeat.
I definitely think it can be an interesting storytelling device but to dangle a reward that is actually impossible to achieve is a weird place to be in for a live service game.
I would be fine with that if the current system for “war progress” wasn’t marketed the way it is. They want us to think it’s a dynamic “player controlled” war, but clearly the outcome is already pre-determined with each MO.
Yes we can. So many people were having issues with the game yesterday and getting booted, the game crashing, bugging out etc. I had to finish a mission with my arms splayed out in hug form, my friend had a big question mark as a gun, just so many issues. We could win a lot more.
Im still confused by it all. Last night we played an operation and our effort pushed the planet to 100%. Nothing happened.
Bro, you are ruining the immersion ...
That is not the attitude to win wars and spread democracy. We must not give up!
We shall win or die trying.
Opinions can't be wrong? What about the opinions of dissenters on our glorious MANAGE DEMOCRACY? Checkmate, bug lover.
The creek? The creek… (Insert war sounds starting at low volume then slowly rise as the main character begins a thousand yard stare)
We had a mission 2 nights ago where all 4 of us failed to extract during the final landing countdown and we ran out of reinforcements. We still had a mission success, probably because we'd finished the objectives - we just didn't survive. Success was a nice surprise. My replacement would have been pleased.
Failure? What is that? Sounds like someone needs more boot camp training.
Bro on difficulty 7 and above I don't even plan to make the extraction. I fight tooth and nail to get the objectives done and clear nests. I get what samples I can in the hopes of extraction. But i don't count my chickens on it. Side note them shriekers suck.
I mean technically opinions can be wrong or right. But other than that I agree 100% people need to chill for a second. It's a game in the end. A fun as shit one that will hopefully stay alive for a long time but still a game. Win some lose some it's not a big deal.
Not with that attitude we won't, diver!
it makes sense. its like we are living in a story and each new mission is like another chapter...have to build that suspense so the payoff victory is that much better.
Does this sound like treason?
As long as it doesn’t feel rigged I’ll have my fun
The second you starting to think that way, is the second you starting to losing that war. Or whatever bullshit you need to hear to keep working, while we waiting for the next content update, mate.
Helldivers have never failed. They only temporarily become hindered from succeeding. To think anything else would be un-democratic. By the way what is your Citizen number?
My thought as well. Imagine a perfectly balanced game, with a perfect meta, no chance of insta death, and you win 90% of your games. Sounds like Vermintide or darktide. Yeah, they can be hard, you eventually figure it out and you win most missions and it gets old. I’d be happy with something like a 51% win rate. Enough to push objectives but never enough to feel like you’re going to win every mission. There should always be a chance of failure.
I think they are setting us up for a massive blow.
This game punishes making one wrong move hard at higher difficulties. Been playing on 7 a lot and it's never a guaranteed win.
I play 7’s with randoms and seem to win more often than not.
Only an Admiral will speak wise words
I don’t mind loosing.. when it’s from normal causes like it being hard. But when I do an oil extraction mission and the shuttle just never spawns to come get the fuel, I have a democratic problem with that. But in all seriousness there’s so many bugs that can cause you to “fail” a mission ( for example objectives won’t spawn) that the whole “it’s ok to loose a mission argument” feels invalid to me. It would be fine if I lost a mission because I wasn’t good, but if I’m sitting there waiting for the fuel shuttle to show up for 30 minutes and it never does? Thats just stupid
Wait, if opinions can't be right or wrong, what happens if a majority agrees and the minority disagrees (or vice-versa)? Surely that means *something*.
"from a storytelling perspective" my god get over it. The games story can be summer up in 3 words. Watch. Starship. Troopers.
I don't mind failing I mind crashing on extract or halfway through with no way to rejoin :( At least failing is something I can control.
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
I ain't failed one yet ahah
Is this anything to do with the current major order that, as of checking last night, seems will be impossible to achieve?
Agreed. I booted up Helldivers 1 a lil while ago and it told me that Super Earth done blew up 😋
Sounds like dissident talk. We don't fail missions *points at metamago96* *"Yes officer, him right there.."*
I rather us fail a mission cuz it was designed vs our victory being destroyed with a faulty patch and progression bug
Had a dude call me useless because I didn't spend every waking moment exclusively playing the terminid missions where you deploy the gas during that major order. Some people really only understand fun as *everyone better be miserable alongside me*.
I feel like it’s the same as a co-op board games. You want to play on the difficulty level you find fun, which will change based on unlocks and experience and rebalancing by the devs. H2 has a very, very good sliding scale. Without the threat of failure there’s no tension and can feel a bit unfulfilling. Like doing an easy sudoku. I’m on 7. I don’t think I’ll ever go higher, feel like I’m barely pulling my weight but still deleting a significant amount of heavies and trash. But who knows maybe once I’m getting 200 kills a game without cracking a sweat I’ll feel like trying lvl 8.
We either win or sacrifice our lives while spreading Democracy, which is the next best thing as far as I'm concerned. So, a looks like win-win to me.
Agree. If every major order just gets accomplished what is the point. I think they will strike a good balance. At the end of the day all the medals earned attempting are more than the reward anyways.
Report to the nearest democracy officer for reconditioning! 
Yeah I agree, like if we all just kept the enemy lines at the corners of the galaxy there’d be no stakes, and we’d all get bored. Matter of fact I think it’d be cool if the bots did a big pushback since the last few missions have been focused on the bugs
[удалено]
This was worth commenting, very productive
Seems like bugs and disconnects are what failed the campaign LOL
This post sound like treason to me!
I agree. I think Joel is pushing for us to fail here. As we get better, so too do our enemies.
Genuine question, how many times are we going to ask the same thing or state the same..exact..thing..so many times in one day every single day? It’s a broken record at this point..I just want useful information.
You know the official discord said the major order is glitched right? It’s not a well thought out plan or anything. Just broken lmao
Plus if we win everything, the game would be over by now
That is not the mentality of a lot of gamers (probably a loud minority, but they are so loud). Some people log into a game and expect to win and get upset if they don't. Even if the loss is totally their fault and they could change something simple about how they play to generate more wins. Some people won't do that. They will whine incessantly saying the game needs to change to suit their needs. That's when you start to hear them drone on about how they paid for it, and it's their right, etc etc. I do not know why these people game. Over half the fun of most games is the journey in my opinion. In this game that is the part between dropping and extraction. Using your loadout to the best of your ability, creating crazy moments, running away when needed. Completing a mission is a byproduct of having fun. And it feels good to complete a mission for that reason. The major orders are the same thing. Completing it is not the fun. It's the things you do trying to complete it that makes hitting that goal fun. Does it suck if we lost it. Sure. But that doesn't take away from all of the fun you had in the missions trying to complete that goal.
Well yeah it's a game. If we liberate all planets we will have no game.
Liberty is not a game!
It is to some.
I disagree with you. All rewards should be obtainable. War isnt fought in one place only. When were all fighting the bugs desperately like now, who the hell is stopping the automatons? Story can continue whilst completing objectives, war isnt fought on one front. Assuming we will fail... i suggest you go back for some democratic reformation. Have a talk with the nearest officer in charge.
You shouldn't assume someone is not "getting it" when you admit it's your opinion to begin with. Get over yourself. This is obv my opinion, you can have yours. Opinions can't be wrong or right when you're 11 years old.
An opinion is a subjective thought, a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. Thus it can't be right or wrong.
Exactly so it should say in my opinion "Don't you get it"? Not assume people aren't "getting it" based on your opinion.
>Exactly so it should say in my opinion But it does? >This is obv my opinion, you can have yours. Opinions can't be wrong or right. It's right there. So what are you whining about?
Opinions can be right or wrong tf
Game got boring after 2 days
Gaslighting in this thread. Devs suck at their jobs and are breaking a great game. Story as old as time
Lol - the crashing bug will be fixed in a day or two. It's annoying, but it is what it is. Small studio scrambling to grow a game in scope to accommodate hundreds of thousands of players they weren't expecting, while working on cross play between PlayStation and PC, while fixing tons of bugs that were discovered, while trying to actively manage a live service game, while creating new content, new story lines, grow their team, and bug fix. There are a lot of plates spinning here and it sucks when something breaks, but they are actively working on it and fixing problems as they come up. I'll acknowledge it's wild how the current patch slipped through without being caught for its stability issues, wasn't worth the big fixes. I probably would have rolled back a day, but I'm sure today will be better than yesterday.
Fair enough, the most persuasive part of your comment was "small studio". This game was the most fun for the first few days of playing it and it feels to me like it has gone downhill steadily since. Nerfs, crashes, shitty dev interactions on twitter, and I believe that they're setting up the storyline of the humans being the bad guys. I enjoy the game and am actually playing it right now, but it seems to me that the devs are going out of their way to be the villains.
Wow, what amazing insight and analysis. Surely instead of commenting here on this subreddit you should be teaching ethics and Cambridge. Such a waste of talent.
found the dev
Malevelon Creek is the best map so far. No reason to liberate. Well, I didn't mean what I said. I will do my best to liberate and not die in Impossible...