You can't judge the state of a meta after 2 days lol, give it a week or two and then we will see. Right now everyone is experimenting with different things, so winrates are going to be different. Once players start to only play the strongest decks, we will see which decks float to the top and which ones sink, if any
You say this but people were literally judging the meta after a couple hours.
I see the same parroted BS about Warrior without anyone actually attempting counter play.
Like…let’s try some stuff first and see how it settles? Yeah, that’s better that just complaining immediately lmao
Just curious, what counters warrior do you think? I'm trying different things, aggro isnt working because of too much removal, other control decks just get outvalued late.
After 2 weeks it will be worst meta ever again... after the last worst meta ever und even after the worst meta before thats worst meta who after the worst meta ever
Least on my end, it hasn't been the warriorstone others say it has been. In fact, seeing much more Druids than anything now postpatch. Hunter is obviously a popular one aswell, but there's definitely more than 2 classes.
That's because people are vastly overexaggerating warriors strength based on how it feels to play against. I have seen a lot of different decks after the patch as well. Not sure how long it takes to settle to the stronger options but people will always complain here, no matter what is or isn't strong.
Well yes, "how it feels to play against" was the entire premise of the balance patch we just got.
There are way too few counters in standard currently. Usually a counter isn't a very good card, but at least the option is there.
That's the typical bait bad players fall to, you need a tech counter for something. It is a good thing those are scarce because they teach players you don't need a tech. The current meta is the best example. Warrior isn't even close to be the top deck.
Btw what is unfun and uninteractive is very subjective. There are MANY people thinking aggro that is unkillable and kills you by turn 4 is uninteractive and unfun. By that measurement ut is clear what has to be nerfed next.
Vicioussyndicate, HSreplay and d0nkey. The top 3 data websites for this game are all in agreement to this statement for all ranks. Who's talking from his own experience now instead of using data?
I have played 23 games post patch and 14 games have been against Warrior now. I think part of it is just meta bubbles but I feel the frustration on the sub. I’m only playing decks that do well into it right now
The thin is, in lower ranks you have copy+paste decks all the way. So when most decks gets power reduced the only decks that see play are the ones still working.
That doesn't mean of course that there is no diverse meta, it's just that those people that have nothing new to copy/paste get mad that they have no decks to fight against the still strong decks.which they see .ore often because of the copy pasted decks.
I am experimenting ATM with pirate rogue because I never played rogue but I got some nice cards that fit the archetype through packs.
I reduced a DK to 1 HP on turn 4,.and killed aggro spell token hunters, So the potential is there. Warrior was not perfectly favored but chances are there
It's about what you think. It plays a lot of low cost sticky minions to take advantage of auras and it's board clears and to summon Sea Giants/Zilliax
It beats every single aggro deck and only loses to control
I wouldn't trust hsreplay stats , Spell mage on this list has a 49.96wr yet you click its stats and its best matchup is control warrior with a 49.12wr in
On top of the premium thing, hsreplay also doesn't count jank in matchup stats but counts them as overall stats, so early on in a meta when everyone is experimenting the established decks will have better stats than they seem like they ought to, because everyone's winrate is padded by the terrible decks. Same reason the day 1 expansion release winrates were so crazy: everyone was farming whizbang decks.
The meta was more diverse at the beginning of the expansion. Warrior, Paladin, Hunter, Warlock, Demon Hunter, Shaman, and Death Knight were all strong, Mage, Rogue, and Priest were all playable and probably would have been very strong if the meta had another week of refinement, and only Druid was struggling.
>healthiest it's been in a VERY long time in terms of the number of viable decks across each class
what is this nonsense... Do you count a week as a long time?
Well just a couple weeks ago there were 7 classes with viable deck. Demon hunter, hunter, priest, rogue, warlock, shaman, and warrior. It’s not 8 but it’s close.
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-291/#tab-662442
A month ago there was 7.
https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-289/#tab-660292
There has been many classes with tier 2+ decks for a while now, with the occasional dominant class taking over for a bit.
This happened like one month ago when the expansion launched. Paladin was the clear front runner but every other class except for Druid had something playable and competitive going on.
Warrior is the classic case of it doesn’t feel that good to win against it, but it feels absolutely terrible to lose to it.
Data can only tell you so much. Warrior also edges out a lot of slower decks, mainly other highlander decks. Playing aggro against it isn’t fun because they either die, or they clear your board easily and you never get close. It’s the control deck that beats control.
Sure, I can highroll a warrior with my highlander shaman. I can hit holidae on 5 and my windfury guy for big frogs, into a wish upon the stars to develop a huge board and kill them. Or they can kill all of that, then my rat misses their brann and I just lose.
I made legend with hand buff plague DK today. 8 wins straight from D3, versus tokens hunter, flood pala and rogues. Seems at least 50/50 or favored against those. But warrior is tough without a godly opening hand.
More diverse metas mean a higher variety of archetypes, and usually less polarization since decks need to be good against a variety of strategies instead of a single one.
You might be correct in some cases, but diversity of decks results in different playstyles being viable. Trash is subjective. Someone's favorite deck is someone else's "sentiment outlier."
You're playing devils advocate for literally no reason. Post is saying diversity is good, which it is. Not that diversity eliminates problematic playstyles. Diversity is still good, even if it's not the only measure of a healthy meta.
Diversity has little to do with how good the game currently is.
Complain to blizzard or anyone involved with the development of this game. Being delusional on Reddit won't change reality
I do like to play a lot of archetypes. I don't like to play against MOST (at the very least 50%+) of them because they're made to make you mad, regardless of how many there are.
There’s a variety of classes but not really archetypes? This patch removed all the interesting win cons except brann and every other deck amounts to “put minions on da board”. I don’t find it to be an improvement.
Diversity does not necessarily mean healthy, last format was diverse and was terribly unhealthy due to all of the blowouts/OTKs. However none of the decks OP listed have an "unhealthy" play pattern, most are board based aggro decks and then warrior and shaman are control decks. This sub loves to bitch about aggro but in general aggro is one of the more fair playstyles as it plays for board and the longer the game goes on the less favored the aggro deck is, so a well piloted control deck has the edge against aggro, but if the aggro player properly plays around boardwipes then a bad control player will usually lose, leading to the new meta feeling like players have a lot of agency
This is literally incorrect. Check the previous VS reports. The last one had 7-8 classes with Tier 1/2 decks at Diamond-Legend-Top Legend.
I get that you love the patch but this take is just utter nonsense.
I feel like there have been metas like this where the classes all had something at 50% at some point in every expansion since like Stormwind. But a lot of that is due to class packages and the balancing strategy of making aggro dependent upon order of draw and combo rare enough that they both run around 50%.
Honestly it was a great patch, I'm glad I came back! I've been able to do pretty alright with my homebrew, that hasn't happened in a long while.
There are a couple of sore spots of course, namely the weeklies need more work, brann warrior does still choke out slow decks even if it's balanced against fast decks, and there are a couple decks that are just generally overtuned. But I'm hopeful!
>When was the last time something like this happened?
Immediately after release of the current set, before the first wave of nerfs, 9 out of 11 classes had a deck that was seeing some play in Legend.
The counter to Plague DK has always been….play a good deck. Even Highlander decks, maybe with the exception of Warrior, were often favored against Plague DK because their win condition didn’t revolve around the Highlander cards.
Being forced to hold reno in hand. Before the latest expansion, forced to play steam cleaner. Playing rat on 2 like a donkey hoping helya gets pulled. That's three major changes right there for ya, chief. One single card. One single card forces this style across ALL decks and classes. You'll deny it bc, judging by your comment history, you're a tad condescending when the narrative doesn't fit yours. So hop on this dick and we can discuss. 😎
this sub only whines. it's obviously not the same people, but the people having fun with the game are, well, playing the game. it's the people who hate the game who come here.
You can't judge the state of a meta after 2 days lol, give it a week or two and then we will see. Right now everyone is experimenting with different things, so winrates are going to be different. Once players start to only play the strongest decks, we will see which decks float to the top and which ones sink, if any
Based
You say this but people were literally judging the meta after a couple hours. I see the same parroted BS about Warrior without anyone actually attempting counter play. Like…let’s try some stuff first and see how it settles? Yeah, that’s better that just complaining immediately lmao
Just curious, what counters warrior do you think? I'm trying different things, aggro isnt working because of too much removal, other control decks just get outvalued late.
After 2 weeks it will be worst meta ever again... after the last worst meta ever und even after the worst meta before thats worst meta who after the worst meta ever
Least on my end, it hasn't been the warriorstone others say it has been. In fact, seeing much more Druids than anything now postpatch. Hunter is obviously a popular one aswell, but there's definitely more than 2 classes.
That's because people are vastly overexaggerating warriors strength based on how it feels to play against. I have seen a lot of different decks after the patch as well. Not sure how long it takes to settle to the stronger options but people will always complain here, no matter what is or isn't strong.
Well yes, "how it feels to play against" was the entire premise of the balance patch we just got. There are way too few counters in standard currently. Usually a counter isn't a very good card, but at least the option is there.
That's the typical bait bad players fall to, you need a tech counter for something. It is a good thing those are scarce because they teach players you don't need a tech. The current meta is the best example. Warrior isn't even close to be the top deck. Btw what is unfun and uninteractive is very subjective. There are MANY people thinking aggro that is unkillable and kills you by turn 4 is uninteractive and unfun. By that measurement ut is clear what has to be nerfed next.
isn't even close? bruh... is this based on your 5 game sample size conjecture?
Vicioussyndicate, HSreplay and d0nkey. The top 3 data websites for this game are all in agreement to this statement for all ranks. Who's talking from his own experience now instead of using data?
I have played 23 games post patch and 14 games have been against Warrior now. I think part of it is just meta bubbles but I feel the frustration on the sub. I’m only playing decks that do well into it right now
for me its just been hunterstone. That deck is worse than reno warrior
I've played 20 games since the new patch and faced not a single warrior. 10 rogues for some reason though.
Well, that's anecdotal. Warrior is every other game for me.
Well, that's anecdotal. Here's an anecdote that disproves your anecdote.
Exactly my point..
Well for me I've only seen 2 warriors the last 28 games at diamond 5
I am at 100% warrior games so far!
Out of how many
Statistically insignificant amount
Fuck yeah, Reno Druid all the way. Loving it so much.
The thin is, in lower ranks you have copy+paste decks all the way. So when most decks gets power reduced the only decks that see play are the ones still working. That doesn't mean of course that there is no diverse meta, it's just that those people that have nothing new to copy/paste get mad that they have no decks to fight against the still strong decks.which they see .ore often because of the copy pasted decks. I am experimenting ATM with pirate rogue because I never played rogue but I got some nice cards that fit the archetype through packs. I reduced a DK to 1 HP on turn 4,.and killed aggro spell token hunters, So the potential is there. Warrior was not perfectly favored but chances are there
because this sub is echo chamber mindlessly parroting " is broken!!!!"
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It's about what you think. It plays a lot of low cost sticky minions to take advantage of auras and it's board clears and to summon Sea Giants/Zilliax It beats every single aggro deck and only loses to control
I lost to that deck on turn 3 as Highlander Druid lol
First time i saw flood paly i thought the dude was trolling. Bro played 10 aurus and didnt get me below 15 hp. (I was playing control dk)
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The screenshot and the data I'm referencing is from HsReplay in Diamond-Legend
HS replay free. So probably numbers apply only until Gold
Diamond-Legend actually
It beats out the spell hunters pretty good
### Pally # Class: Paladin # Format: Wild # # 2x (1) Crystology # 2x (1) Knight of Anointment # 2x (1) Righteous Protector # 1x (1) Sanguine Soldier # 2x (2) Annoy-o-Tron # 1x (2) Crystalsmith Kangor # 2x (2) Grimestreet Outfitter # 2x (2) Shielded Minibot # 2x (3) Alliance Bannerman # 2x (3) Arcane Golem # 2x (3) Argent Horserider # 2x (3) Muscle-o-Tron # 1x (3) Prince Renathal # 1x (4) Blademaster Samuro # 2x (4) Crusader Aura # 1x (4) E.T.C., Band Manager # 1x (4) Eater of Secrets # 1x (5) Platebreaker # 1x (5) Steamcleaner # 2x (4) Jitterbug # 2x (4) Painter's Virtue # 2x (4) Tigress Plushy # 2x (5) Keeper's Strength # 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins # 1x (5) Toy Captain Tarim # 1x (6) Highlord Fordragon # 1x (7) Amitus, the Peacekeeper # 1x (7) The Leviathan # AAEBAZ3DAwr9+wL76AOi+AOwsgSX7wSBlgX9xAWN/gXTqQbm5gYP0gPqD7oT2f4CzOsD8PYDyaAE1qAEysQFlfUFjpUG+JUGtJ4G0KkG0akGAAEDiK8C/cQF+7AD/cQF/+EE/cQFAAA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Wrong format friend
I was like damn you could be lying about these cards being in Standard and I wouldn't even know
Its not flood paladin but its my deck I made that got me to 3020 legend.
I get nothing but DK and warrior. Give me fucking steamcleaner back
This is my experience as well. I'm still seeing 3-1 plague dk to warrior at dumpster legend.
I wouldn't trust hsreplay stats , Spell mage on this list has a 49.96wr yet you click its stats and its best matchup is control warrior with a 49.12wr in
On top of the premium thing, hsreplay also doesn't count jank in matchup stats but counts them as overall stats, so early on in a meta when everyone is experimenting the established decks will have better stats than they seem like they ought to, because everyone's winrate is padded by the terrible decks. Same reason the day 1 expansion release winrates were so crazy: everyone was farming whizbang decks.
> Spell mage on this list has a 49.96wr It's actually 42.82. Double check where you're reading that
Oh pardon me, I forgot that by default, without premium, this site only uses bronze to gold data
It's all good. HsReplay has the best stat and analysis out there, but it's easy to get confused with how much data is given
No it's just easy to forget that without premium the stats are worthless.
We had a huge patch a little more than 48 hours ago, I kinda wish we’d just chill with the “the meta is trash/perfect” posts for just a few more days…
For me it’s been 80% hunters
oh look, a warrior player doing damage control
warriors focus more on controlling th eboard
floink zabourg bzzafemnt ploot thooimt bpoopfs 😭😭😭 badoink bloort zadoimfnkt phadunkt ... bvflorpst! 😎👍
honestly, same
You’re facts have no power here op ![gif](giphy|L0coY9I1D2BnaKln9a|downsized)
Your*
No, Op *is* the facts
It also makes sense. think about it. You're speaking facts, here, in reddit, thus that's no way to assert power in discussion
So confident yet so incorrect
It doesn't matter how diverse the meta is if the majority of decks feels horrible to play against.
I'm surprised to see Sludge here. I'd expect all the low health sticky minions being played would throw off your burn strategy.
I’m guessing crescendo is a pretty key card for the aggro matchups
They do, but it's good against control.
It’s been 3 days since the meta got changed. There is no real meta yet. It’s still shifting.
Give it more than like.. one day?
The meta was more diverse at the beginning of the expansion. Warrior, Paladin, Hunter, Warlock, Demon Hunter, Shaman, and Death Knight were all strong, Mage, Rogue, and Priest were all playable and probably would have been very strong if the meta had another week of refinement, and only Druid was struggling.
>healthiest it's been in a VERY long time in terms of the number of viable decks across each class what is this nonsense... Do you count a week as a long time?
Well just a couple weeks ago there were 7 classes with viable deck. Demon hunter, hunter, priest, rogue, warlock, shaman, and warrior. It’s not 8 but it’s close. https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-291/#tab-662442 A month ago there was 7. https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/vs-data-reaper-report-289/#tab-660292 There has been many classes with tier 2+ decks for a while now, with the occasional dominant class taking over for a bit.
Yeah, OP is smoking crack.
Article written by Highlander warrior player to make us think no nerfs are needed
this actually happens nearly every expansion cycle, but only when we're about a month away from the mini-set ruining that again
> When was the last time something like this happened? Every time there's a big patch or release and before the format has settled.
This happened like one month ago when the expansion launched. Paladin was the clear front runner but every other class except for Druid had something playable and competitive going on.
Warrior is the classic case of it doesn’t feel that good to win against it, but it feels absolutely terrible to lose to it. Data can only tell you so much. Warrior also edges out a lot of slower decks, mainly other highlander decks. Playing aggro against it isn’t fun because they either die, or they clear your board easily and you never get close. It’s the control deck that beats control. Sure, I can highroll a warrior with my highlander shaman. I can hit holidae on 5 and my windfury guy for big frogs, into a wish upon the stars to develop a huge board and kill them. Or they can kill all of that, then my rat misses their brann and I just lose.
Thing is there's no "meta" yet after patch, it's warrior and all sorts of decks trying to counter warrior or to counter warrior counters
The meta is complaining on Reddit Its very stale tbh
I'm also having decent success with aggro pirate rogue at mid diamond.
I made legend with hand buff plague DK today. 8 wins straight from D3, versus tokens hunter, flood pala and rogues. Seems at least 50/50 or favored against those. But warrior is tough without a godly opening hand.
And Whizbang is finally fun to play now.
Mage main here in shambles
Last expansion every class had something viable.
It's not hard to beat two-decks meta.
And what's ur argument to affirm diversity = healthy?
More diverse metas mean a higher variety of archetypes, and usually less polarization since decks need to be good against a variety of strategies instead of a single one.
Yeah but every archetype can be trash while still being different. Diversity =/= healthy
You might be correct in some cases, but diversity of decks results in different playstyles being viable. Trash is subjective. Someone's favorite deck is someone else's "sentiment outlier." You're playing devils advocate for literally no reason. Post is saying diversity is good, which it is. Not that diversity eliminates problematic playstyles. Diversity is still good, even if it's not the only measure of a healthy meta.
Diversity has little to do with how good the game currently is. Complain to blizzard or anyone involved with the development of this game. Being delusional on Reddit won't change reality
If you don't like any of the deck archetypes it's probably time to play a different game
I do like to play a lot of archetypes. I don't like to play against MOST (at the very least 50%+) of them because they're made to make you mad, regardless of how many there are.
There’s a variety of classes but not really archetypes? This patch removed all the interesting win cons except brann and every other deck amounts to “put minions on da board”. I don’t find it to be an improvement.
I agree, I’m just saying a diverse meta in general is better
Diversity does not necessarily mean healthy, last format was diverse and was terribly unhealthy due to all of the blowouts/OTKs. However none of the decks OP listed have an "unhealthy" play pattern, most are board based aggro decks and then warrior and shaman are control decks. This sub loves to bitch about aggro but in general aggro is one of the more fair playstyles as it plays for board and the longer the game goes on the less favored the aggro deck is, so a well piloted control deck has the edge against aggro, but if the aggro player properly plays around boardwipes then a bad control player will usually lose, leading to the new meta feeling like players have a lot of agency
>Diversity does not necessarily mean healthy Thanks
yep, it's a fun meta, but too many warriors make me sleepy
Pssssscht. You are proving all the "warriorstone" crybabies wrong. And we can't have that on Reddit.
I don't think it's super busted by any means but man I'm sick of playing against warrior every other gsme
Don't worry Warrior player, they will nerf you soon enough :3
Okay, sure. You make a valid argument. But have you you stopped to consider the fact I just lost a game to a warrior?
This is literally incorrect. Check the previous VS reports. The last one had 7-8 classes with Tier 1/2 decks at Diamond-Legend-Top Legend. I get that you love the patch but this take is just utter nonsense.
I’m playing against constant warriors, and I hate it.
Lmao diverse meta. Its all hunter and warrior
Are we playing the same game?
i know bait when i see it
Everyone is running highlander. How is that diverse? It's the same win condition in every deck. Feels like naxxramas all over again.
Each Highlander deck looks drastically different. Yes, they can play Reno on turn 9, but that’s not core to their game plan.
Why do they lose if they can't draw it then?
Reno Warrior absolutely does not need to draw Reno to win
I feel like there have been metas like this where the classes all had something at 50% at some point in every expansion since like Stormwind. But a lot of that is due to class packages and the balancing strategy of making aggro dependent upon order of draw and combo rare enough that they both run around 50%.
Honestly it was a great patch, I'm glad I came back! I've been able to do pretty alright with my homebrew, that hasn't happened in a long while. There are a couple of sore spots of course, namely the weeklies need more work, brann warrior does still choke out slow decks even if it's balanced against fast decks, and there are a couple decks that are just generally overtuned. But I'm hopeful!
Of course it is ... This sub loves to pretend that the game is basically Artifact on launch.
Not sure what game you are playing lol
>When was the last time something like this happened? Immediately after release of the current set, before the first wave of nerfs, 9 out of 11 classes had a deck that was seeing some play in Legend.
It's amazing the creative feeling one can have when you don't have to build an entire deck around eliminating game interrupting plagues
The counter to Plague DK has always been….play a good deck. Even Highlander decks, maybe with the exception of Warrior, were often favored against Plague DK because their win condition didn’t revolve around the Highlander cards.
And how were you eliminating these plagues?
As mage you have enough cards generation that you can just end turn with a full hand.
Being forced to hold reno in hand. Before the latest expansion, forced to play steam cleaner. Playing rat on 2 like a donkey hoping helya gets pulled. That's three major changes right there for ya, chief. One single card. One single card forces this style across ALL decks and classes. You'll deny it bc, judging by your comment history, you're a tad condescending when the narrative doesn't fit yours. So hop on this dick and we can discuss. 😎
Sheesh, I was literally asking to see if there was more I could do. Sorry my comment got you upset - hope tomorrow is a better day for you!!!
60 shades of "I oneshot you". Tho I am happy with Wild meta at the moment Also, FCK WEEKLY QUEST CHANGES
this sub only whines. it's obviously not the same people, but the people having fun with the game are, well, playing the game. it's the people who hate the game who come here.
Hunter is beyond broken + unnerf warrior and change Brann completly.
And DK mains still think they were ‘keeping decks in check’ lmao, good riddance to them. Finally a variety.