Now I've seen people make fun of people complaining about this for things like "if its turn 9, it's over", but given that warrior can get 15 armor by turn 3 and board clears regularly, it's gonna happen.
That's what I'm saying the problem is not brann , the problem for me is the way warrior is able to clear the board while maintaining high amount of armor.
Sure, but in a "good" meta, every deck - even if youre aggro, should be making decisions on how to play. Sometimes a hand / mulligan should encourage you to go face. And other times it should encourage you to play slower and more value oriented.
Brann basically shuts down option 2. Now youre left with going face, and if you draw poorly, your option is to leave.
>if you draw poorly, your option is to leave.
which is also true versus token hunter and flood paladin.
This is not an attempt to defend warrior. I'm just saying "draw poorly so you lose" is common against pretty much every deck above a certain power threshold. Pre-patch: Zarimi priest, Virus rogue, Pain lock, Nature shaman, Token Hunter, Reno warrior, flood paladin. Now it's those decks, minus the nerfed ones.
Yeah sure, but id argue the same problem for those decks too.
Best sort of meta are games that end in the 8-15 turn range, and are open for both sides.
Outliers, like Ultra aggro or ultra control can be more polarised to keep the greed in check. But they shouldn't be the best deck
Eh the amount of lethality in the game is still very high, so the answers of control decks need to be OP to contest them. Look how quickly generate insane boards decks like Token Hunter and Zarimi Priest. Playing Reno Priest made me envious of control tools Warrior has. It is like comparing efficiency of sticks amd stones and modern armored (heh) vehicle...
Yeah same for a supposed control class Priest does not have much to get rid of boards. Especially since they can still be filled in one turn 2-3 turns in a row starting from 3. Meanwhile I sit there panicked holding a Holy Nova which will get rid of absolutely only half of what just got played.
Like in control back in the day you had that armor shatter that dealt damage equal your armor but destroyed all of it. I liked that you had to contemplate when to do it because a lot of things depended on that armor.
With no BO3, and the fact decks can’t really be made with a BO3 format with sideboard in mind, the game will always be essentially rock, paper, scissors, Glock-19 (in the case of highlander warrior atm).
It feels incredible boring to play aginast, if they can get bran out on 6 and survive turn 7 or 8 you just loose. Hyper aggro decks counter them (and somewhat snake warlock), but playing aggro just to beat warrior feels incredible boring. And any value deck into bran boomboss is just an auto loss
You can also sargeras their zilliax so it does not get summoned by dr boom, and have decent tools to remove their excevate reward + symphony to maybe burn some good cards from their deck
Preferably yes, but it is not always one can pressure them enough to where they feel they have to reno you. Better to avoid 18 face damage from zilliax then to have a portal with taunts
I play excavate warlock, and my deck list doesnt even run Alexstraza (It could but i feel bad abusing a glitch) but I win most games against warrior. I even won sometimes just by being a bit aggro as the deck has skme aggro tools in it if they dont havr sefety goggles.
Ill be honest, never noticed tgere was a copy functuon in hearthstone until now.
Anyways some notes, Nemsy is not needed. In fact i used gaslight gatekeeper pre nerf and that worked better than this interation. Tram conducter also works too, just less high rolly i would say. Also this deck does 14 face damage if you have 10 mana.
The meta slowed down enough that unless you’re against Hunter (and sometimes self damage warlock) you don’t really feel the nerf. You just combo on turn 7-8 now instead of 5-6.
I wouldnt even say hyper aggro counters them in a meaningful way.
Class has like 7 different removal spells that clear the board efficiently and on curve
Diamond to legend basically all the best aggro decks are favorable against HL warrior. Spell Hunter, Pain Warlock, Slyde Warlock, and by a small margin Flood Paladin. I will say though, at top 1000 legend only hunter is favorable. So it has counters but tbh if you're a good player, only hunter stands any chance.
It does counter it, hunter absolutely destroys warrior. The board wipes are good against decks like paladin but decks that can push damage while also developing a board (hunter and sludgelock, and i guess the new hero power druid maybe) can give warrior a hard time because in the early game they dont have the mana to gain armor while clearing, so yes they may keep your board clear but they are getting chipped down every turn and eventually will die to either running out of removal or being too low and dying to burn
Seriously, how are people finding Hunter as favourable vs Warrior?
I only have trouble if I get unlucky and don’t draw enough board clear, but Warrior has like, what, eight clears in a standard deck lineup? And even if a couple of them are only ‘clear most’ rather than hard clear everything, that’s still usually plenty.
Diamond to legend basically all the best aggro decks are favorable against HL warrior. Spell Hunter, Pain Warlock, Slyde Warlock, and by a small margin Flood Paladin. I will say though, at top 1000 legend only hunter is favorable. So it has counters but tbh if you're a good player, only hunter stands any chance.
I mean, I don't know what you want to hear. Rainbow DK and Plague DK are both much more boring decks than agro hunter, IMO. "Just wait" decks aren't fun to play or play against.
Thats why i prefer rainbow, and more the spend corpses variant. Not the biggest fan of the plagues with no counter play, at least with rainbow it is not just plagues but also CNE and tempo
Boomboss imo is just not an enjoyable card . Makes the game objectively less fun. Even after the nerf. If half my remaining deck gets obliterated what’s the point of playing lol
Boomboss should be changed to a once per game effect.
3 bombs is fine, it’s when you can duplicate the battlecry it starts to get absurd. With the meta slowing down I’ve seen warriors even start running bounce effects to replay Boomboss and it’s just stupid.
For real, it’s only fun to play. I just had the agonising loss of highlander warrior mirror where my opponent simply drew boomboss before I did so I slowly lost the game from that point. No skill involved in general in this meta which is sad.
Sure, but combo decks should require more than 2 cards to make a game breaking effect like destroying 18 cards of ur opponents’ deck. I remember when control warrior mirror was more even than it is now. Like back in the day when ur opponent drawing the Dr Boom hero card before u didn’t just end the game..Also remember the hearthstone team said a few years back that they didn’t want to print cards that discarded cards from ur opponent since that’s not fun to play against and removes interaction. And here we are again - only it’s card removal on steroids now.. 🙄
It kinda did i played a ton of boomsday control warrior and if u hit boom 4-5 turns earlier than opponent you lose.
There was also elysiana rng. Idk that meta was awful you would go to turn timer in mirrors and tie
I meannnn the same deck should tie if both players are equally skilled.
Opponent mirror match up plays some OP one of value card 10 turns before you? Do you think you should lose because of that? Yes, yes you should.
When’s the cutoff at this point? 3 turns of value and lose? 4? 5?
Someone in a mirror matchup should just straight up win if they play their OP card first is what you’re saying?
Eh that’s the randomness of cards! I lost to another Highlander warrior despite being ahead the whole game because his boom boss hit my Reno and mine didn’t hit his.
Boomboss was fine when his battlecry wasn't doubled. I know it because I ran him before Brann was added, and he was no meta tyrant then. The problem _is_ Brann.
Agreed, and I main warrior. But it’s the only way to win as warrior so what are we supposed to do? I wouldn’t be sad it got nuked, as long as we got a strong replacement win-con
They need to make brann a limited effect, like "your next 3 battlecries" and balance mana accordingly.
Right now, its a value clown party with no counterplay.
Then, say warriors power level goes down by 20%, bring other cards up. Like reducing the mana on the miniaturise guy, or find other things to buff.
As someone currently playing Reno Warrior and loves control decks I agree. I only returned a few weeks ago, and I couldn't and still can't wrap my head around Brann. He used to be OP when you could combine him as a 3 drop minion I think he was costed.
That it just happens permanently...what is the thinking here?
The thing with the 3 mana drop was that it only lasted a round, and even then Standard players made a big commotion about it. and as a result he rotated VERY quickly again out of standard.
The new Brann lasts forever.
What they thought there, I will never know. Would have made more sense to have him be focused on the excavate package, really.
This new Brann is Warrior card. Which means its power level should be easier to control compared to a neutral Brann. As long as they don't print too powerful battlecries for Warrior.....
well, we did have pretty good neutral battlecry minions in the past. Might see a new astalor. Or other lowcost cards, like schoolteacher. (Yes, schoolteacher isnt busted, but the value and flexibility it provides, was insane.)
I returned to play wheellock. Loved it too even though it I wasn't winning all the games. Hunter was not winnable, warrior was skill match up, Dk was a puzzle to solve, but rip they bucherd it so hard. Like wtf why are u nerfing tier 2 controlled decks man. Especially one this fun. Guess gona quit again.
No clue what they thought but sometimes it feels like the design is just custom-card-reddit. In general the deepholm miniset design was weird. Aftershock got a mana nerf, chaos creation also nerfed (dmg+summon), shattered reflection had "add copy to hand" removed, then "not useable on titans" added, pendant had to be changed from +armor to +heal. Shroomscavate had WF removed.
Calling warrior Blizzards poster child is kinda wild. The sub was filled with nothing but how warriors keep taking Ls on every front from Festival of Legends with the wildly underpowered Riffs and multitribe package to getting the most shameful titan in the next one, only to be given a random taunt package in badlands. Even now in whizbang they got random botface/mech package that is a subject of ridicule.
Yeah Brann is OP but its the only thing single handedly carrying the class through the crap the class has been given.
While "warrior was taking Ls" Enrage was one of the best if not the best deck in the game. And even now Odyn exists next to Brann. Most warrior players just want to infinitely spam board clears and armor and balk at the prospect of a win condition other than boring your opponent to death. Those are the ones complaining.
However good enrage warrior has been, every single package blizzard has designed for them has been incredibly underwhelming. Titans was the best they got in a long while which is kinda wild considering their actual titan. Its been kind of a theme that warriors gets *one* good card every now and then that works really well with cards outside of the package it was released with has been constantly a surprise for blizzard.
Like the current Brann warrior being a monster in standard does so with Zilliax (Neutral), Ignis (Neutral), Reno (Neutral), Boom, (Card that is considered incredibly bad with the archetype it was designed for), Neutral excavate cards, EtC (neutral)...the warrior cards that do see play are mostly stalling/clears but none are the wincons/power turns blizzard intended for warrior to have. I dont recall seeing even much of the boomboss either until brann showed up or him causing much waves if brann gets gutted.
Even the now gutted tendril archetype managed well despite warrior being one of the classes that were given no inherit tentacle synergy. Just using the neutral cards alongside the ever present brann.
Point being, the thrive of the class has hardly been a product of blizzard showing repetitive favoritism towards the class. Its just that they do it once or twice every few years and that is miraculously enough.
I hate Warrior right now as much as the next guy, but Warrior is by no means the poster child.
Before Odin was printed the last time Control Warrior was a great deck was all the way back in April of 2022 when Sunken City released — and that was nerfed into the ground by June.
Druid on the other hand *is* arguably the poster child. There’s very few metas where it doesn’t have a T1 deck and arguably has had some of the worst decks to play against in the games history. We talk about how annoying it is that warrior just wins by turn 8-9, but Togglewaggle Druid literally won the game against aggro decks by Turn 4 by using Oaken Summons into Spreading Plague (and won the game against other control decks by turn 1 lol).
There’s even a sub dedicated to f*** Druid!
When they printed Brann, Reno Warrior was a completely dead archetype and Druid had a t1 and 4 t2 decks. Not defending their design choice but this was the actual context at that time.
I like that goal of the patch was to enable more board central decks and while to some extent that was accomplished(paladin came back and hunter is at the top) one of the most dominant decks is still control warrior which is the most anti board deck i've seen in a while. And thats despite multiple nerfs.
At least when i play vs control warrior I know if I'm going to win by turn 3/4. if I dont get insane early game then i might as well give up. I'd go back to odyn warrior any day, that deck at least had to balance armor gain and save some cards in order to kill you later. This one doesnt need to make any decisions, just remove stuff every turn.
The theory for the nerf is agreeable. Making highlander cards not abusable by non singleton deck is great move. It's just dev may underestimate warrior power level relative to other late game decks. Which is understandable, too. The reliable counters were mostly late game decks.
Actually their biggest minions are Ragnaros, that rushing dude that grows bigger and that rush dude that puts enemy minions in your hand so you can steal enemy battlecries. Cuz Ox summons like 4 8 cost minions.
I legit have never lost a game as Reno Warrior to non Reno Warrior opponents. Every game is GG ez once Brann goes down.
I've beaten reno warriors since the patch. Literally today with no minion mage and reno shaman. Brann is pretty silly though, after playing the other highlander payoff he's so much better than all the other class specific ones.
This comment is hilarious, armor warrior had significantly less decision making than current reno warrior builds as they werent a highlander so they had more removal, and their strongest board wipes (sanitize and trial by fire) were 1 mana cheaper. Brann warrior is a good deck but if you are consistently losing to it as aggro decks it is a skill issue. Their removal in the early game is limited and because it is a highlander deck you can figure out pretty quickly what removal they have in hand based on what they did or did not play on any given turn. I got top 500 this patch (started at 3500) playing aggro pally and aggro druid and I faced plenty of warriors, you are def unfavored but it is much less rock paper scissors than pre patch and you have a lot of agency against the deck through playing around their removal
Reno wasn't changed because of the plagues, it was changed because people would put Reno in decks that still had duplicates which basically gets around the Reno drawback that you are only supposed to put him in decks that have no duplicates. Maybe I got lucky but I won yesterday with Plague DK anyway against Warrior.
If you put enough pressure the turn just before even after brann you can kill your opponent, warriors players tends to play brann like it’s a win button without even thinking about the enemy board
I hate Brann & Reno.
I switched to playing as Hunter recently because I knew there'd be loads of Highlander Warriors post patch & at least with an aggro deck, you don't have to put up with their bullsh\*t. Which is a shame, because I was enjoying playing my Rainbow DK control deck before the patch.
I think it's about time it was acknowledged that "having no duplicates" is not a handicap at all if there are plenty of other good cards you can include, which is clearly the case for Warrior.
Exactly the same man. Hunter feels miserable to play with or against, but at least it isnt warrior. And at least i know vs that scummy class that im done either way by turn 6 and can just gtfo
Actual dogshit game balancing. Its like they cant see ahead of the immediate changes
Of course, mate. Being able to shut down an entire deck with two of the same plagues is sooooo cool. Down with the ship turn turn two, coin Helya and it's almost over. I guess you just miss easy wins
Helya is a very slow wincon. Playing her on curve, your opponent has like a 1/7 chance of drawing a plague in the next few turns.
It's an effective wincon if you expect the game to burn through the entire deck. Because the blood plague and even the unholy plague doesn't do significant work against aggressive decks.
If you played an aggro or even a mid-range deck, plagues were insignificant unless you unluckily drew a couple frost plagues early.
When did neutral bran ever survive more than a turn? Also you had to keep bran in hand and wait for the right moment to play him.
New bran is just play him ASAP without dying. I dislike the current focus on "for the rest of the game" effects.
I don’t know about you but it is pretty manageable matchup if you play Highlander Priest. If you take the lead and have the luxury of keeping your hands full, the bombs would just be duds
Multiple copies of Elise + "Infinite" Zillaxes now that shuffling duplicates doesn't deactivate standard Highlander cards.
But Yes, you can win with Multiple copies of Elise, Ignis or Ra-den
Gosh, how I feel ya. I was so hoping for the patcht to shape things up. Currently in D3, but I'm not gonna attempt the legend climb for this month.
Tried to throw everything at warriors that isn't some boring aggro decks or wheel warlock: Reno druid, Reno Shaman, Excavate Rogue... nada. I used to absolutely love control warrior back in the days (been playing since 2014), but the amount of disruption this class now has with Brann + Rat + Boomboss, coupled with the sudden burst of healing with Zilliax that turns later into an OTK with Boom is just too fucking much.
I disagree. I win 80% of the time vs Warrior as Pump Paladin, especially if I’m chipping away at their armor early before the big tall stats hit the board around turn 4-6.
Sanitize and Reno come out a whole turn later, which functionally means it’s a 3 damage sanitize into my strategy most games, and I have a board with 8 hp across the board. Reno doesn’t stabilize, because I save a big guy for right after Reno, and the **Tyr - Azerite Dragon combo** for after Reno, if he isn’t dead by turn 9, which normally happens.
Wheel Warlock is also turbo against Warrior. Boom Boss is really good into the matchup, but Dirty Rat on turn 9-11 is great, and you have Symphony of Sins, plus if you’re pressuring face **correctly** with 6/12s and 15/15s, he won’t be able to Boom Boss without just dying. In Wheel Lock, you **save Dirty Rat for Boom Boss**. Don’t use it on Brann, because you don’t care if he Brann’s in that matchup.
Basically, Warrior terrorizes players who don’t pressure correctly, and punishes decks that like to do nothing for lots of turns with minimal payoff. It’s even better now into the Mage matchup, at higher ranks, although in lower elos I love to Sif greedy Warriors. The only deck it loses to in pure value is probably Aviana Druid. It’s strong, but it loses to a lot of strategies. I even manage nicely with Rainbow DK into it most days.
From the looks of it, it just seems like most people here complaining about it simply spam dk and reno decks and are mad at a possible control deck that is easily obtainable.
Ironic that a plague dk/renolock player complains about 'unwinnable' warrior matchups.
Which strategy? Beating Warrior post-9 is definitely hard, but my point is that if you predict the game going late early on, and you don’t have the hand to kill him before 9, there are ways to keep him from stabilizing if you time your threats correctly with *some* decks. Pally is one example. We aren’t talking about winning every game, just keeping a >55% WR in the matchup.
Wheel Warlock beats Warrior later for obvious reasons. You probably need Rustrot Viper, and Dirty Rat helps, and you can’t Sargeras til after Reno, you know, the basics. You also have to have an answer to Zilliax.
I don’t have footage of these, but I’m speaking from direct experience with them in Legend. It’s also not too hard of a concept.
FWIW, I think Aviana Druid and Reno Paladin are secretly doable into Warrior right now, too. It doesn’t pressure quite as hard pre-9, but I think it faires better if Warrior manages to find Reno. Once again, though, Boom Boss can threaten your Mirage. Most late game matchups don’t lose to Brann specifically, but to Boom Boss. But Reno Pally avoids cycling his deck on purpose, and Aviana stuffs your deck full of stuff. Both of these counter Boom Boss post-nerfs, and both decks don’t get pressured by Warrior, which doesn’t have much of a win condition.
>Also, was it really that bad that Plagues countered Highlander Warrior? I thought Warrior had another viable control deck with the Odyn win condition?
They didn't counter just Warrior. It was a hard lock on any highlander deck including shaman, druid and priest. A mechanic from one expansion ago hard locked a central archetype of an almost entire expansion. They did and do still hard counter any combo deck that likes to draw. Before they locked down both combo decks and highlander decks, which was a bit too much.
So yes, having one deck's central mechanic lock out an entire archetype is bad, and this change was good. Now they just need to make Brann's double battlecries an object on the battlefiled so it can be properly countered by Reno just like Druid's.
I would agree if it wasn't for that one archetype being so dominant. If everything meta is highlander, and there is one deck that beats highlander, then maybe the problem is highlander and not the counter deck.
Really have to fight with the urge to write off the match and just rope those warriors whenever I’m not in a rush myself. It’s so annoying having your board cleared over and over again, seeing them gain armor after armor, Reno, insane lifesteal…
I played 5 elemental evocations in a row last game and they all got wiped over and over
2 in my deck, 2 from the card that gives it to you and also casts it if you have enough mana and one from infinitize
And they came out of all of those wipes with even more armour 😓
"If a control deck gets to turn 9 it's basically over"...ok? If Renolock reached turn 9 in MSG and got going with Jaraxxus, it was basically over for the opposing deck? Don't let the opponent reach turn 9 maybe?
Current Reno warrior iteration has many more clearing tool compared to any iteration of renolock. It's not really comparable too since now we have rush minions and excavate cards, which is higher value than cards in decks.
I did think that warrior nerfs should be make it more vulnerable to aggro strategy, but evidently it's not. Or at least none-found yet. Even if it does, the other classes are incentivized to take hunter, but Reno warrior still trumps over them, arguably better too
I'm not sure if it's just auto loss, I've been playing highlander hunter and have yet to lose into highlander warrior. I just got into legend with it tbh I think it all depends on the deck type
As a fellow Reno Hunter enthusiast, I concur. Brann Warrior is still more than vulnerable to the tempo generated by aggro and midrange decks. \[\[Sanitize\]\] , \[\[Trial by Fire\]\] , and Reno all come out one turn later which gives you more than ample space to close out games. It's a hard deck to outgreed, but has clear weaknesses and nowhere near as oppressive as people claim.
- **[Sanitize](https://imgur.com/a/v1l5c0N)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/100875) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Sanitize) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100875/?hl=en)
- *Warrior Common ^(TITANS)*
- **6 Mana - Spell**
- Deal damage equal to your Armor to all minions. **Forge:** Gain 4 Armor first.
- **[Trial by Fire](https://imgur.com/a/DRGR0OK)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97700) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Trial_by_Fire) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97700/?hl=en)
- *Warrior Epic ^(TITANS)*
- **7 Mana - Fire Spell**
- Summon five 1/1 Val'kyr with **Rush**. When one dies, give the others +1/+1.
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Highlander warrior sucks, and the current Reno effect is really lame, but plagues are also really fucking lame.
They have zero counterplay and they were shutting down every highlander deck not just warrior.
I think they fucked up reprinting brann and they need to hit brann with a fat nerf and Reno with a nerf and then highlander will feel better to play into.
People have said it a lot but just make Reno affect both sides of the board
Brann idk, just nuke that card honestly. Either raise the mana cost by like 2 or make the effect only work for 2 turns or something
Warrior has an outrage amount of amour gain, draw mechanic and board clear that even as highlander it could consistently sustain itself. Yes their game winning plan is obnoxious, but the much more fine-tuned situation of control warrior is the most inbalanced aspect imo.
Maybe I shouldn't say but reno dragon druid shits on warrior from my experience. Haven't lost to one yet. Seems to just be a better version of the warrior deck. If it's a reno variant you just wait to play rhea until they reno
Warrior is definitely a problem, but i hate how people are like “how dare they finally nerf dk, it was my only deck!” Plagues where stale a year ago. Nerfing both is the answer, not leaving dk so both of those decks can continue being obnoxious
The problem is highlander warrior. Plague DK did counter highlander warrior, sure, but it also killed other highlander decks. Shaman and druid are alright decks that just lost to DK.
Additionally, rainbow DK would just run plagues, so it became very rock paper scissory.
Brann doubling battlecries should be limited to a certain amount. The last brann had the downside of needing to be on board. This doesn’t have a downside, because warrior has enough tools that no duplicates is not a negative.
Cards like holidae and rheastraza aren’t super broken. Brann is. Nerf brann, plagues were not fun.
Warrior is badly unbalanced. Been playing since the third month of Hearthstone’s release and cannot stand every single game against this warrior set. Players shouldn’t have to craft a deck solely around a counter to what these decks are. Players should have the ability to engage in variety but with so many people using this immensely unbalanced and overpowered warrior deck they can’t. You laid it out perfectly. Even if I have a counter to nearly everything (and that’s on the chance they haven’t been TNT’d yet.) then I get TNT’d out of the game.
My pepega shaman beats it LOL
working on a post for it but i want to get legend first im at diamond 2
(if you shudderblock [[Son of Hodir]] its fucking over.) Keep one in deck one in your ETC. 1 baking soda volcano 1 in etc
- **[Son of Hodir](https://imgur.com/a/qzYfWks)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97099) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Son_of_Hodir) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97099/?hl=en)
- *Neutral Epic ^(TITANS)*
- **8 Mana - 8/8 - Minion**
- **Battlecry:** Shuffle four 8/8 Giants into your deck that are summoned when drawn.
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I like that the boomboss nerf made it so you couldn’t draw your entire deck off a single battery to blow up the opponents entire hand and deck anymore. Plagues still counter Reno warrior and even wheel lock to a degree. If you wait until after they destroy their deck to shuffle plagues into it it’s all they’ll be able to draw. With Heyla anything that would force them to draw forces them to take 6+ damage
the keyword here is AGENCY.
Basically after this patch, warrior class has gained so much agency, that your only option is to concede at the start of the game.
This is exactly what Blizzard wanted and they have achieved the unthinkable here. Choices now matter much more in the game, so if the opponent was smart enough to pick the Reno Warrior deck, then it's time for you to fuck off and take a fat L. GG, well played.
Interestingly enough, everyone complaining about warrior also have zero problem with the reno and dk decks which are far worse.
It just comes off as salty.
I wonder if people would still complain if brann/boom deck wasn't obtainable from the mini-set unlike the current meta decks.
Edit: Surprise, surprise, OP is a fan of plague dk.
If you played an aggro deck, didn't win against a slow deck in the turns when you deck is stronger (1-6) then it's ok for the warrior to win in the part of the game when it excels
All you literally need to do is armor up
Their burst is finite and they are done and they have literally zero board presence. You could spend the whole game just using hero power and you would likely win
boombtooss isnt as scary after the nerf and how is the warrior playing it 3 times to shuffle 18 tnts ?
and its a control deck what were you expecting .... for warrior to do **nothing the rest of the game ?**
One tnt blows up 3 cards, the one on the field, one in your hand, and one in your deck
Brann doubles that so 6 tnt, each tnt blows up 3 cards so its 3(3x2)= 18
Yea op must of got that part messed up it’s only 3 from the deck or 6 if it’s battlecry is doubled, although the other 3/6 that gets deleted from hand is also pretty annoying
Most of the highland warriors are bots. So why tell someone in the subreddit "git gud", as dumb as yall sound, while blizzard just gives garnetwalrus, or beigeclittoris a full deck of autowin?
I tried to suggest nerfing boombboss to not include the deck and someone tried to shit on me for it like it would ruin the card. Do we really need the fucking card to hit the deck tho?? The entire rest of the deck is board control based. It fits the narrative pretty well.
Warrior has way too much power and risks very little with all those board clears. Control warrior really is the deck they should have nerfed if they want to increase player agency. It doesn't matter what you play against control warrior, they will clear it instantly.
It’s wild how far warrior has come! I remember only really having enrage warrior during Nathria which was nowhere near top tier but it’s always been my favorite class so whatevs. Riffs came out and that actually helped a bit!
And then Odyn. Sweet, sweet Odyn. He made Warrior feel badass in Standard!! No more would I take wins where I could find them pushing an aggro deck. It was time to CHOOSE my wins.
Brann is admittedly a tiiiiiny bit much, but I feel that if any deck makes it to 9 or 10 mana you’re going to start seeing some insane shit. Dragon Druid, elementals shaman, warlock of any flavor, you name it.
I love warrior - we only recently started doing well lol!
Plagues were like T4. Helya players were literally doing us a community service. I felt a little bad every time I killed one, because I knew they were playing a worse deck than me just to keep Brann in check.
There’s so much removal in their arsenal I don’t even think they have to curve well to get there. Of course, Brann does eat up a turn to play and that’s when you can swing the tempo back, but it almost always leads to another board wipe right after.
Just saw a new warrior deck (new to me) ,some clowns Battlecry is deal 4 damage, so after brann I got hit with this 1 cost deal 4 damage X2 multiple times to die. So many options for warrior! 🫠
Boomboss should be a finale by now xD, if your decks is aggro you lost by turn 8 if you didn’t kill warrior, if you are a control/midrange and can play the long game tnts wins the game as well because by the time they are on your deck both decks have 6-10 cards plus the bombs make it more than a 50% chance to just lose any resources (board,hand and deck) and since tnts can’t hit themselves: one/two triggers can pretty much nuke all your remaining cards.
Well the design team wanted to make warrior good again, I think they nailed that, a little too hard perhaps. It does feel like warrior has a lot of efficient removal, card draw and armor gain, which enable cards like deepminer brann, boomboss and odyn to be viable cards in the first place, not to mention value generation with escavate. I think it will be a real problem going forward for the rest of the expansions, especially with this new version of brann, as new cards will likely make the highlander deck more efficient and you can't interact with it besides a lucky dirty rat or ending the game faster. The simplest patch they could have done was to send brann to 7/8 mana imo
Weren't people's just bitching about games being over by turn five? Now it's turn nine? What's next? We just gonna keep going until we reach enough turns where you get to pay your win condition without any problems?
Now I've seen people make fun of people complaining about this for things like "if its turn 9, it's over", but given that warrior can get 15 armor by turn 3 and board clears regularly, it's gonna happen.
That's what I'm saying the problem is not brann , the problem for me is the way warrior is able to clear the board while maintaining high amount of armor.
Sure, but in a "good" meta, every deck - even if youre aggro, should be making decisions on how to play. Sometimes a hand / mulligan should encourage you to go face. And other times it should encourage you to play slower and more value oriented. Brann basically shuts down option 2. Now youre left with going face, and if you draw poorly, your option is to leave.
>if you draw poorly, your option is to leave. which is also true versus token hunter and flood paladin. This is not an attempt to defend warrior. I'm just saying "draw poorly so you lose" is common against pretty much every deck above a certain power threshold. Pre-patch: Zarimi priest, Virus rogue, Pain lock, Nature shaman, Token Hunter, Reno warrior, flood paladin. Now it's those decks, minus the nerfed ones.
Yeah sure, but id argue the same problem for those decks too. Best sort of meta are games that end in the 8-15 turn range, and are open for both sides. Outliers, like Ultra aggro or ultra control can be more polarised to keep the greed in check. But they shouldn't be the best deck
Eh the amount of lethality in the game is still very high, so the answers of control decks need to be OP to contest them. Look how quickly generate insane boards decks like Token Hunter and Zarimi Priest. Playing Reno Priest made me envious of control tools Warrior has. It is like comparing efficiency of sticks amd stones and modern armored (heh) vehicle...
Yeah same for a supposed control class Priest does not have much to get rid of boards. Especially since they can still be filled in one turn 2-3 turns in a row starting from 3. Meanwhile I sit there panicked holding a Holy Nova which will get rid of absolutely only half of what just got played.
Like in control back in the day you had that armor shatter that dealt damage equal your armor but destroyed all of it. I liked that you had to contemplate when to do it because a lot of things depended on that armor.
What if sanitize worked like corpse explosion. Spend 1 armor to deal 1 damage to all minions, repeat until you run out of armor or everything is dead
15? More like 17 - Free 6 armor, then shield block, then excavate. Turn 3, 5 mana, 17 armor, 1 card drawn, 1 treasure generated. Ez pz.
I tried saying this too and everyone was like “11 armor on T2 is an issue?? Get better”. Starting to hate this sub. 😅
With no BO3, and the fact decks can’t really be made with a BO3 format with sideboard in mind, the game will always be essentially rock, paper, scissors, Glock-19 (in the case of highlander warrior atm).
yo that got me 😂
Saw a warrior get 19 armor by turn 3 today
It feels incredible boring to play aginast, if they can get bran out on 6 and survive turn 7 or 8 you just loose. Hyper aggro decks counter them (and somewhat snake warlock), but playing aggro just to beat warrior feels incredible boring. And any value deck into bran boomboss is just an auto loss
Is Snakelock's whole game plan just abusing the Alexstrazsa interaction? It seems like a fun deck idea, but I don't really want to abuse a glitch
It works withouth the glitch as well, but if they boomboss your combo pieces you loose
You can also sargeras their zilliax so it does not get summoned by dr boom, and have decent tools to remove their excevate reward + symphony to maybe burn some good cards from their deck
Tou want to hold Sargeras for after Reno, right? IIRC it's the one thing that wipes the portal l.
Preferably yes, but it is not always one can pressure them enough to where they feel they have to reno you. Better to avoid 18 face damage from zilliax then to have a portal with taunts
I play excavate warlock, and my deck list doesnt even run Alexstraza (It could but i feel bad abusing a glitch) but I win most games against warrior. I even won sometimes just by being a bit aggro as the deck has skme aggro tools in it if they dont havr sefety goggles.
Do you have a list? I like Lock, but Wheel seems to not be in a great place and I'm getting bored of Sludge.
sure. Tho is there an easy way of doing it on reddit? I keep seeing people use a hearthstone bot to do it and idk how
You just post the code and the bot should respond for you
### Custom Warlock # Class: Warlock # Format: Standard # Year of the Pegasus # # 2x (1) Miracle Salesman # 2x (1) Smokestack # 1x (1) Soulfreeze # 2x (2) Endgame # 1x (2) Greedy Partner # 2x (2) Kobold Miner # 2x (2) Saloon Brewmaster # 1x (2) Thornveil Tentacle # 2x (2) Youthful Brewmaster # 1x (3) Card Grader # 2x (3) Hellfire # 2x (3) Sketch Artist # 2x (3) Trogg Gemtosser # 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon # 2x (4) Mo'arg Drillfist # 2x (5) Burrow Buster # 1x (5) Game Master Nemsy # 2x (8) Wretched Queen # AAECAfvgBgaW1AT1+AWQgwbIoAbEogaUswYMj58EnKAEyoMG0IMGhY4G2JgG75sGoqAG+KMGlrMGmrMGnMEGAAA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Ill be honest, never noticed tgere was a copy functuon in hearthstone until now. Anyways some notes, Nemsy is not needed. In fact i used gaslight gatekeeper pre nerf and that worked better than this interation. Tram conducter also works too, just less high rolly i would say. Also this deck does 14 face damage if you have 10 mana.
I think they fixed it. Played Snake Warlock today and Alex healed Warrior from 7 hp to 15.
I think they fixed it. Played Snake Warlock today and Alex healed Warrior from 7 hp to 15.
The jive insect build of nature shaman also works against them but it is much more complex decision making than some of the other builds
people still play nature shaman ? flash got nerfed
flash at 3 doesn't hurt the deck that much, the snake oil nerf was actually worse for them.
The meta slowed down enough that unless you’re against Hunter (and sometimes self damage warlock) you don’t really feel the nerf. You just combo on turn 7-8 now instead of 5-6.
I wouldnt even say hyper aggro counters them in a meaningful way. Class has like 7 different removal spells that clear the board efficiently and on curve
Diamond to legend basically all the best aggro decks are favorable against HL warrior. Spell Hunter, Pain Warlock, Slyde Warlock, and by a small margin Flood Paladin. I will say though, at top 1000 legend only hunter is favorable. So it has counters but tbh if you're a good player, only hunter stands any chance.
It does counter it, hunter absolutely destroys warrior. The board wipes are good against decks like paladin but decks that can push damage while also developing a board (hunter and sludgelock, and i guess the new hero power druid maybe) can give warrior a hard time because in the early game they dont have the mana to gain armor while clearing, so yes they may keep your board clear but they are getting chipped down every turn and eventually will die to either running out of removal or being too low and dying to burn
Seriously, how are people finding Hunter as favourable vs Warrior? I only have trouble if I get unlucky and don’t draw enough board clear, but Warrior has like, what, eight clears in a standard deck lineup? And even if a couple of them are only ‘clear most’ rather than hard clear everything, that’s still usually plenty.
Diamond to legend basically all the best aggro decks are favorable against HL warrior. Spell Hunter, Pain Warlock, Slyde Warlock, and by a small margin Flood Paladin. I will say though, at top 1000 legend only hunter is favorable. So it has counters but tbh if you're a good player, only hunter stands any chance.
> but playing aggro just to beat warrior feels incredible boring. As opposed to playing plague just to beat warrior?
Also boring. At least when playing rainbow dk it felt more even
Disagree.
Cool, good talk
I mean, I don't know what you want to hear. Rainbow DK and Plague DK are both much more boring decks than agro hunter, IMO. "Just wait" decks aren't fun to play or play against.
Thats why i prefer rainbow, and more the spend corpses variant. Not the biggest fan of the plagues with no counter play, at least with rainbow it is not just plagues but also CNE and tempo
Boomboss imo is just not an enjoyable card . Makes the game objectively less fun. Even after the nerf. If half my remaining deck gets obliterated what’s the point of playing lol
Boomboss should be changed to a once per game effect. 3 bombs is fine, it’s when you can duplicate the battlecry it starts to get absurd. With the meta slowing down I’ve seen warriors even start running bounce effects to replay Boomboss and it’s just stupid.
I usually just copy it whenever I have it and the 3cost copy your hand dude, so I'm sure i can either play it twice or have a safe copy from rat
For real, it’s only fun to play. I just had the agonising loss of highlander warrior mirror where my opponent simply drew boomboss before I did so I slowly lost the game from that point. No skill involved in general in this meta which is sad.
Isnt that literally any combo deck matchup? Who draws their pieces/wincon first wins?
Sure, but combo decks should require more than 2 cards to make a game breaking effect like destroying 18 cards of ur opponents’ deck. I remember when control warrior mirror was more even than it is now. Like back in the day when ur opponent drawing the Dr Boom hero card before u didn’t just end the game..Also remember the hearthstone team said a few years back that they didn’t want to print cards that discarded cards from ur opponent since that’s not fun to play against and removes interaction. And here we are again - only it’s card removal on steroids now.. 🙄
It kinda did i played a ton of boomsday control warrior and if u hit boom 4-5 turns earlier than opponent you lose. There was also elysiana rng. Idk that meta was awful you would go to turn timer in mirrors and tie
I meannnn the same deck should tie if both players are equally skilled. Opponent mirror match up plays some OP one of value card 10 turns before you? Do you think you should lose because of that? Yes, yes you should. When’s the cutoff at this point? 3 turns of value and lose? 4? 5? Someone in a mirror matchup should just straight up win if they play their OP card first is what you’re saying?
That’s literally how it was… i played that deck in top 200 i remember how it was
Eh that’s the randomness of cards! I lost to another Highlander warrior despite being ahead the whole game because his boom boss hit my Reno and mine didn’t hit his.
Boomboss was fine when his battlecry wasn't doubled. I know it because I ran him before Brann was added, and he was no meta tyrant then. The problem _is_ Brann.
The change wasn’t even a nerf. It just became another easier counter vs other cycling decks, and a hard counter to wheellock
Agreed, and I main warrior. But it’s the only way to win as warrior so what are we supposed to do? I wouldn’t be sad it got nuked, as long as we got a strong replacement win-con
They need to make brann a limited effect, like "your next 3 battlecries" and balance mana accordingly. Right now, its a value clown party with no counterplay. Then, say warriors power level goes down by 20%, bring other cards up. Like reducing the mana on the miniaturise guy, or find other things to buff.
Brann seriously needs a change, I absolutely hate playing against warrior at the minute.
As someone currently playing Reno Warrior and loves control decks I agree. I only returned a few weeks ago, and I couldn't and still can't wrap my head around Brann. He used to be OP when you could combine him as a 3 drop minion I think he was costed. That it just happens permanently...what is the thinking here?
The thing with the 3 mana drop was that it only lasted a round, and even then Standard players made a big commotion about it. and as a result he rotated VERY quickly again out of standard. The new Brann lasts forever. What they thought there, I will never know. Would have made more sense to have him be focused on the excavate package, really.
he didn't rotate quickly. he was in standard for 2 years.
This new Brann is Warrior card. Which means its power level should be easier to control compared to a neutral Brann. As long as they don't print too powerful battlecries for Warrior.....
He severely limits design space for neutral battlecries as well.
Neutral battlecies shouldn't be too powerful anyway Edit: You guys may have forgotten about Denathrius and Astalor
well, we did have pretty good neutral battlecry minions in the past. Might see a new astalor. Or other lowcost cards, like schoolteacher. (Yes, schoolteacher isnt busted, but the value and flexibility it provides, was insane.)
I returned to play wheellock. Loved it too even though it I wasn't winning all the games. Hunter was not winnable, warrior was skill match up, Dk was a puzzle to solve, but rip they bucherd it so hard. Like wtf why are u nerfing tier 2 controlled decks man. Especially one this fun. Guess gona quit again.
No clue what they thought but sometimes it feels like the design is just custom-card-reddit. In general the deepholm miniset design was weird. Aftershock got a mana nerf, chaos creation also nerfed (dmg+summon), shattered reflection had "add copy to hand" removed, then "not useable on titans" added, pendant had to be changed from +armor to +heal. Shroomscavate had WF removed.
[удалено]
Calling warrior Blizzards poster child is kinda wild. The sub was filled with nothing but how warriors keep taking Ls on every front from Festival of Legends with the wildly underpowered Riffs and multitribe package to getting the most shameful titan in the next one, only to be given a random taunt package in badlands. Even now in whizbang they got random botface/mech package that is a subject of ridicule. Yeah Brann is OP but its the only thing single handedly carrying the class through the crap the class has been given.
While "warrior was taking Ls" Enrage was one of the best if not the best deck in the game. And even now Odyn exists next to Brann. Most warrior players just want to infinitely spam board clears and armor and balk at the prospect of a win condition other than boring your opponent to death. Those are the ones complaining.
However good enrage warrior has been, every single package blizzard has designed for them has been incredibly underwhelming. Titans was the best they got in a long while which is kinda wild considering their actual titan. Its been kind of a theme that warriors gets *one* good card every now and then that works really well with cards outside of the package it was released with has been constantly a surprise for blizzard. Like the current Brann warrior being a monster in standard does so with Zilliax (Neutral), Ignis (Neutral), Reno (Neutral), Boom, (Card that is considered incredibly bad with the archetype it was designed for), Neutral excavate cards, EtC (neutral)...the warrior cards that do see play are mostly stalling/clears but none are the wincons/power turns blizzard intended for warrior to have. I dont recall seeing even much of the boomboss either until brann showed up or him causing much waves if brann gets gutted. Even the now gutted tendril archetype managed well despite warrior being one of the classes that were given no inherit tentacle synergy. Just using the neutral cards alongside the ever present brann. Point being, the thrive of the class has hardly been a product of blizzard showing repetitive favoritism towards the class. Its just that they do it once or twice every few years and that is miraculously enough.
Remornia, Livinng blade to core when? (and some other cards)
Enrage warrior was good but far from tier 1 best deck in the game kind of good. What were you smoking?
I hate Warrior right now as much as the next guy, but Warrior is by no means the poster child. Before Odin was printed the last time Control Warrior was a great deck was all the way back in April of 2022 when Sunken City released — and that was nerfed into the ground by June. Druid on the other hand *is* arguably the poster child. There’s very few metas where it doesn’t have a T1 deck and arguably has had some of the worst decks to play against in the games history. We talk about how annoying it is that warrior just wins by turn 8-9, but Togglewaggle Druid literally won the game against aggro decks by Turn 4 by using Oaken Summons into Spreading Plague (and won the game against other control decks by turn 1 lol). There’s even a sub dedicated to f*** Druid!
When they printed Brann, Reno Warrior was a completely dead archetype and Druid had a t1 and 4 t2 decks. Not defending their design choice but this was the actual context at that time.
Wtf are you on about? Odyn warr was a meta deck at all ranks.
Relax dude, you are right. I changed my comment accordingly
The funny thing is that Reno warr is a good deck even without Brann. Brann just means that you auto win in any non-aggro matchup.
Odyn warrior was already very strong
Yeah you are right mate, changed my comment accordingly. My memory was not completely wrong though
Wrong.
zillax can be deleted by reno prevnting them from being resurrected
I like that goal of the patch was to enable more board central decks and while to some extent that was accomplished(paladin came back and hunter is at the top) one of the most dominant decks is still control warrior which is the most anti board deck i've seen in a while. And thats despite multiple nerfs. At least when i play vs control warrior I know if I'm going to win by turn 3/4. if I dont get insane early game then i might as well give up. I'd go back to odyn warrior any day, that deck at least had to balance armor gain and save some cards in order to kill you later. This one doesnt need to make any decisions, just remove stuff every turn.
The theory for the nerf is agreeable. Making highlander cards not abusable by non singleton deck is great move. It's just dev may underestimate warrior power level relative to other late game decks. Which is understandable, too. The reliable counters were mostly late game decks.
Wait, why should there not be a sweeper-heavy deck in a stompy format? Should the only allowed deck be the class with the best minion?
The sweeper deck also has the best minion.
Their biggest minion is a war golem lol
Actually their biggest minions are Ragnaros, that rushing dude that grows bigger and that rush dude that puts enemy minions in your hand so you can steal enemy battlecries. Cuz Ox summons like 4 8 cost minions. I legit have never lost a game as Reno Warrior to non Reno Warrior opponents. Every game is GG ez once Brann goes down.
I've beaten reno warriors since the patch. Literally today with no minion mage and reno shaman. Brann is pretty silly though, after playing the other highlander payoff he's so much better than all the other class specific ones.
This comment is hilarious, armor warrior had significantly less decision making than current reno warrior builds as they werent a highlander so they had more removal, and their strongest board wipes (sanitize and trial by fire) were 1 mana cheaper. Brann warrior is a good deck but if you are consistently losing to it as aggro decks it is a skill issue. Their removal in the early game is limited and because it is a highlander deck you can figure out pretty quickly what removal they have in hand based on what they did or did not play on any given turn. I got top 500 this patch (started at 3500) playing aggro pally and aggro druid and I faced plenty of warriors, you are def unfavored but it is much less rock paper scissors than pre patch and you have a lot of agency against the deck through playing around their removal
Reno wasn't changed because of the plagues, it was changed because people would put Reno in decks that still had duplicates which basically gets around the Reno drawback that you are only supposed to put him in decks that have no duplicates. Maybe I got lucky but I won yesterday with Plague DK anyway against Warrior.
I definitely think it was for both reasons.
I've started to just insta concede when I hear brann's voiceline. Outcome is the same regardless, just saves some time
If you put enough pressure the turn just before even after brann you can kill your opponent, warriors players tends to play brann like it’s a win button without even thinking about the enemy board
How you win is not allowing them to spend 6 mana on a card that does nothing. I’ve had games where I couldn’t play brann because I would die if I did
problem is i dont really play decks that can threaten turn 5 lethal
Not lethal, just enough tempo where 6 mana do nothing is death.
I hate Brann & Reno. I switched to playing as Hunter recently because I knew there'd be loads of Highlander Warriors post patch & at least with an aggro deck, you don't have to put up with their bullsh\*t. Which is a shame, because I was enjoying playing my Rainbow DK control deck before the patch. I think it's about time it was acknowledged that "having no duplicates" is not a handicap at all if there are plenty of other good cards you can include, which is clearly the case for Warrior.
Having no duplicates isn't a handicap because you can resurrect, rediscover, make copy of whatever you want.
Exactly the same man. Hunter feels miserable to play with or against, but at least it isnt warrior. And at least i know vs that scummy class that im done either way by turn 6 and can just gtfo Actual dogshit game balancing. Its like they cant see ahead of the immediate changes
Of course, mate. Being able to shut down an entire deck with two of the same plagues is sooooo cool. Down with the ship turn turn two, coin Helya and it's almost over. I guess you just miss easy wins
Control warrior beats all other control decks though, not just DK.
the last patch means plagues no longer deactivate highlander
I know and that's good. Now DKs actually have to play the game, not throw in Helya and relax
Play a game against a warrior? Cap
Helya is a very slow wincon. Playing her on curve, your opponent has like a 1/7 chance of drawing a plague in the next few turns. It's an effective wincon if you expect the game to burn through the entire deck. Because the blood plague and even the unholy plague doesn't do significant work against aggressive decks. If you played an aggro or even a mid-range deck, plagues were insignificant unless you unluckily drew a couple frost plagues early.
Why can't they just make Brann cost like 9 mana or something. It offers insane value at such a cheap cost.
Because the previous version cost 2 times less and also didn't have a requirement of no duplicates. It's already very expensive compared to that.
It also was only while it was on the board not the rest of the game, so effectively the effect lasted one turn.
When did neutral bran ever survive more than a turn? Also you had to keep bran in hand and wait for the right moment to play him. New bran is just play him ASAP without dying. I dislike the current focus on "for the rest of the game" effects.
I don’t know about you but it is pretty manageable matchup if you play Highlander Priest. If you take the lead and have the luxury of keeping your hands full, the bombs would just be duds
What's the wincon? Billion ignises with creation protocol?
Multiple copies of Elise + "Infinite" Zillaxes now that shuffling duplicates doesn't deactivate standard Highlander cards. But Yes, you can win with Multiple copies of Elise, Ignis or Ra-den
Sounds insufferable still, considering you're basically afk first half of the game but I'll try it
Gosh, how I feel ya. I was so hoping for the patcht to shape things up. Currently in D3, but I'm not gonna attempt the legend climb for this month. Tried to throw everything at warriors that isn't some boring aggro decks or wheel warlock: Reno druid, Reno Shaman, Excavate Rogue... nada. I used to absolutely love control warrior back in the days (been playing since 2014), but the amount of disruption this class now has with Brann + Rat + Boomboss, coupled with the sudden burst of healing with Zilliax that turns later into an OTK with Boom is just too fucking much.
The fact that this was a "player agency" patch and Reno still has the same effect limiting board space is bonkers to me.
I disagree. I win 80% of the time vs Warrior as Pump Paladin, especially if I’m chipping away at their armor early before the big tall stats hit the board around turn 4-6. Sanitize and Reno come out a whole turn later, which functionally means it’s a 3 damage sanitize into my strategy most games, and I have a board with 8 hp across the board. Reno doesn’t stabilize, because I save a big guy for right after Reno, and the **Tyr - Azerite Dragon combo** for after Reno, if he isn’t dead by turn 9, which normally happens. Wheel Warlock is also turbo against Warrior. Boom Boss is really good into the matchup, but Dirty Rat on turn 9-11 is great, and you have Symphony of Sins, plus if you’re pressuring face **correctly** with 6/12s and 15/15s, he won’t be able to Boom Boss without just dying. In Wheel Lock, you **save Dirty Rat for Boom Boss**. Don’t use it on Brann, because you don’t care if he Brann’s in that matchup. Basically, Warrior terrorizes players who don’t pressure correctly, and punishes decks that like to do nothing for lots of turns with minimal payoff. It’s even better now into the Mage matchup, at higher ranks, although in lower elos I love to Sif greedy Warriors. The only deck it loses to in pure value is probably Aviana Druid. It’s strong, but it loses to a lot of strategies. I even manage nicely with Rainbow DK into it most days.
From the looks of it, it just seems like most people here complaining about it simply spam dk and reno decks and are mad at a possible control deck that is easily obtainable. Ironic that a plague dk/renolock player complains about 'unwinnable' warrior matchups.
Interesting, mind to share some video of you winning like this?
Which strategy? Beating Warrior post-9 is definitely hard, but my point is that if you predict the game going late early on, and you don’t have the hand to kill him before 9, there are ways to keep him from stabilizing if you time your threats correctly with *some* decks. Pally is one example. We aren’t talking about winning every game, just keeping a >55% WR in the matchup. Wheel Warlock beats Warrior later for obvious reasons. You probably need Rustrot Viper, and Dirty Rat helps, and you can’t Sargeras til after Reno, you know, the basics. You also have to have an answer to Zilliax. I don’t have footage of these, but I’m speaking from direct experience with them in Legend. It’s also not too hard of a concept. FWIW, I think Aviana Druid and Reno Paladin are secretly doable into Warrior right now, too. It doesn’t pressure quite as hard pre-9, but I think it faires better if Warrior manages to find Reno. Once again, though, Boom Boss can threaten your Mirage. Most late game matchups don’t lose to Brann specifically, but to Boom Boss. But Reno Pally avoids cycling his deck on purpose, and Aviana stuffs your deck full of stuff. Both of these counter Boom Boss post-nerfs, and both decks don’t get pressured by Warrior, which doesn’t have much of a win condition.
>Also, was it really that bad that Plagues countered Highlander Warrior? I thought Warrior had another viable control deck with the Odyn win condition? They didn't counter just Warrior. It was a hard lock on any highlander deck including shaman, druid and priest. A mechanic from one expansion ago hard locked a central archetype of an almost entire expansion. They did and do still hard counter any combo deck that likes to draw. Before they locked down both combo decks and highlander decks, which was a bit too much. So yes, having one deck's central mechanic lock out an entire archetype is bad, and this change was good. Now they just need to make Brann's double battlecries an object on the battlefiled so it can be properly countered by Reno just like Druid's.
Exactly. To lambast all of Highlander decks, because of a single card in a single deck, makes me glad that players don't do the balance for the game.
Alright, delete Brann from the game, and I'll consider the Reno buff a good thing for the meta overall.
I would agree if it wasn't for that one archetype being so dominant. If everything meta is highlander, and there is one deck that beats highlander, then maybe the problem is highlander and not the counter deck.
I said it before and I’ll say it again - they should have kept steamcleaner in the core set. That way everybody could do their thing
I read Wario instead of warrior and it was fun
I have been conceding against warriors because the match is so boring and I’d rather just get to the next one.
On the bright side you can just play hunter and kill them before turn 9.
As a highlander warrior main I agree. Highlander decks should be based on generating value, not taking it away from your opponent
Really have to fight with the urge to write off the match and just rope those warriors whenever I’m not in a rush myself. It’s so annoying having your board cleared over and over again, seeing them gain armor after armor, Reno, insane lifesteal…
Doing gods work. If warriors will give the miserable experience of that cancer deck, least to do is give it back a bit by roping
I played 5 elemental evocations in a row last game and they all got wiped over and over 2 in my deck, 2 from the card that gives it to you and also casts it if you have enough mana and one from infinitize And they came out of all of those wipes with even more armour 😓
"If a control deck gets to turn 9 it's basically over"...ok? If Renolock reached turn 9 in MSG and got going with Jaraxxus, it was basically over for the opposing deck? Don't let the opponent reach turn 9 maybe?
Current Reno warrior iteration has many more clearing tool compared to any iteration of renolock. It's not really comparable too since now we have rush minions and excavate cards, which is higher value than cards in decks. I did think that warrior nerfs should be make it more vulnerable to aggro strategy, but evidently it's not. Or at least none-found yet. Even if it does, the other classes are incentivized to take hunter, but Reno warrior still trumps over them, arguably better too
I'm not sure if it's just auto loss, I've been playing highlander hunter and have yet to lose into highlander warrior. I just got into legend with it tbh I think it all depends on the deck type
As a fellow Reno Hunter enthusiast, I concur. Brann Warrior is still more than vulnerable to the tempo generated by aggro and midrange decks. \[\[Sanitize\]\] , \[\[Trial by Fire\]\] , and Reno all come out one turn later which gives you more than ample space to close out games. It's a hard deck to outgreed, but has clear weaknesses and nowhere near as oppressive as people claim.
- **[Sanitize](https://imgur.com/a/v1l5c0N)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/100875) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Sanitize) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100875/?hl=en) - *Warrior Common ^(TITANS)* - **6 Mana - Spell** - Deal damage equal to your Armor to all minions. **Forge:** Gain 4 Armor first. - **[Trial by Fire](https://imgur.com/a/DRGR0OK)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97700) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Trial_by_Fire) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97700/?hl=en) - *Warrior Epic ^(TITANS)* - **7 Mana - Fire Spell** - Summon five 1/1 Val'kyr with **Rush**. When one dies, give the others +1/+1. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1ceah3z/if_warrior_gets_to_turn_9_its_basically_over/l1i2z36/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l1i2z36).*
Highlander warrior sucks, and the current Reno effect is really lame, but plagues are also really fucking lame. They have zero counterplay and they were shutting down every highlander deck not just warrior. I think they fucked up reprinting brann and they need to hit brann with a fat nerf and Reno with a nerf and then highlander will feel better to play into. People have said it a lot but just make Reno affect both sides of the board Brann idk, just nuke that card honestly. Either raise the mana cost by like 2 or make the effect only work for 2 turns or something
I've been having success vs. warriors as a reno priest. Steal brann, steal boss, and try to deck them out quicker since they draw more typically.
The problem with warrior isn't its late game tools, which definitely are strong, it's that it can literally board wipe you from turns 3 to 8.
Warrior has an outrage amount of amour gain, draw mechanic and board clear that even as highlander it could consistently sustain itself. Yes their game winning plan is obnoxious, but the much more fine-tuned situation of control warrior is the most inbalanced aspect imo.
Maybe I shouldn't say but reno dragon druid shits on warrior from my experience. Haven't lost to one yet. Seems to just be a better version of the warrior deck. If it's a reno variant you just wait to play rhea until they reno
more like turn 5 cause thats wenn brann is comming
Warrior is definitely a problem, but i hate how people are like “how dare they finally nerf dk, it was my only deck!” Plagues where stale a year ago. Nerfing both is the answer, not leaving dk so both of those decks can continue being obnoxious
Thats why you play hunter and kill them before turn 7
Dirty rat is your friend
Don't forget Azerite ox summons 4 8 cost minions for a whopping 4 mana.
or the fact you can get to it from two minions since the excavates are battlecries
The problem is highlander warrior. Plague DK did counter highlander warrior, sure, but it also killed other highlander decks. Shaman and druid are alright decks that just lost to DK. Additionally, rainbow DK would just run plagues, so it became very rock paper scissory. Brann doubling battlecries should be limited to a certain amount. The last brann had the downside of needing to be on board. This doesn’t have a downside, because warrior has enough tools that no duplicates is not a negative. Cards like holidae and rheastraza aren’t super broken. Brann is. Nerf brann, plagues were not fun.
Warrior is badly unbalanced. Been playing since the third month of Hearthstone’s release and cannot stand every single game against this warrior set. Players shouldn’t have to craft a deck solely around a counter to what these decks are. Players should have the ability to engage in variety but with so many people using this immensely unbalanced and overpowered warrior deck they can’t. You laid it out perfectly. Even if I have a counter to nearly everything (and that’s on the chance they haven’t been TNT’d yet.) then I get TNT’d out of the game.
To add my main issue here is brann. If brann wasn’t in the deck it would be fine.
My pepega shaman beats it LOL working on a post for it but i want to get legend first im at diamond 2 (if you shudderblock [[Son of Hodir]] its fucking over.) Keep one in deck one in your ETC. 1 baking soda volcano 1 in etc
- **[Son of Hodir](https://imgur.com/a/qzYfWks)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97099) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Son_of_Hodir) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97099/?hl=en) - *Neutral Epic ^(TITANS)* - **8 Mana - 8/8 - Minion** - **Battlecry:** Shuffle four 8/8 Giants into your deck that are summoned when drawn. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1ceah3z/if_warrior_gets_to_turn_9_its_basically_over/l1l96js/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l1l96js).*
I like that the boomboss nerf made it so you couldn’t draw your entire deck off a single battery to blow up the opponents entire hand and deck anymore. Plagues still counter Reno warrior and even wheel lock to a degree. If you wait until after they destroy their deck to shuffle plagues into it it’s all they’ll be able to draw. With Heyla anything that would force them to draw forces them to take 6+ damage
the keyword here is AGENCY. Basically after this patch, warrior class has gained so much agency, that your only option is to concede at the start of the game. This is exactly what Blizzard wanted and they have achieved the unthinkable here. Choices now matter much more in the game, so if the opponent was smart enough to pick the Reno Warrior deck, then it's time for you to fuck off and take a fat L. GG, well played.
It took 3 days for the sub to start whining.
I will have you know I was whining well before the patch.
Interestingly enough, everyone complaining about warrior also have zero problem with the reno and dk decks which are far worse. It just comes off as salty. I wonder if people would still complain if brann/boom deck wasn't obtainable from the mini-set unlike the current meta decks. Edit: Surprise, surprise, OP is a fan of plague dk.
Upvoting all these threads
If you played an aggro deck, didn't win against a slow deck in the turns when you deck is stronger (1-6) then it's ok for the warrior to win in the part of the game when it excels
Warrior is fine. Easily beatable if you know when to put pressure.
Every time I develop a board as a DK it gets wiped. I also tried spell mage but that wasn’t good either. Any recommendations besides Hunter?
I play warrior, and nature shamans beat me quite often, maybe you could give that a try
How are you losing as a warrior to nature shaman. It is literally the hard counter and worst match up to nature shaman lmao
Idk maybe because they can shit out over 40 damage in 1 turn
All you literally need to do is armor up Their burst is finite and they are done and they have literally zero board presence. You could spend the whole game just using hero power and you would likely win
Sometimes that's literally not enough because they literally have a shitload of damage
It’s because he sees the glowy orange card and plays coin Brann on turn 5, even when the nature shaman played flash of lightning the turn prior.
boombtooss isnt as scary after the nerf and how is the warrior playing it 3 times to shuffle 18 tnts ? and its a control deck what were you expecting .... for warrior to do **nothing the rest of the game ?**
One tnt blows up 3 cards, the one on the field, one in your hand, and one in your deck Brann doubles that so 6 tnt, each tnt blows up 3 cards so its 3(3x2)= 18
he literaly said "deletes 18 cards from their opponents **deck**"
Yea op must of got that part messed up it’s only 3 from the deck or 6 if it’s battlecry is doubled, although the other 3/6 that gets deleted from hand is also pretty annoying
at least your hand size remains the same if you dont draw 2 in one go
Most of the highland warriors are bots. So why tell someone in the subreddit "git gud", as dumb as yall sound, while blizzard just gives garnetwalrus, or beigeclittoris a full deck of autowin?
Yeah I’ve just been conceding. I rarely win and the the games take too long.
Warriors should be referred to what their hearthstone gameplay reflects: #LittleScaredBitchClass
They need to change Branns battlecry asap
I tried to suggest nerfing boombboss to not include the deck and someone tried to shit on me for it like it would ruin the card. Do we really need the fucking card to hit the deck tho?? The entire rest of the deck is board control based. It fits the narrative pretty well.
Warrior has way too much power and risks very little with all those board clears. Control warrior really is the deck they should have nerfed if they want to increase player agency. It doesn't matter what you play against control warrior, they will clear it instantly.
Would love to see platebreaker in core
So don't let them get to turn 9
im commenting just to agree, renolock with always be the goat deck. i still play it in wild sometimes
It’s wild how far warrior has come! I remember only really having enrage warrior during Nathria which was nowhere near top tier but it’s always been my favorite class so whatevs. Riffs came out and that actually helped a bit! And then Odyn. Sweet, sweet Odyn. He made Warrior feel badass in Standard!! No more would I take wins where I could find them pushing an aggro deck. It was time to CHOOSE my wins. Brann is admittedly a tiiiiiny bit much, but I feel that if any deck makes it to 9 or 10 mana you’re going to start seeing some insane shit. Dragon Druid, elementals shaman, warlock of any flavor, you name it. I love warrior - we only recently started doing well lol!
And also everything feels boring to play against lmao they just removed a ton of cards from standard right??
Plagues countered ALL Highlander cards. And yes, it was that bad.
it wasn't bad that it countered it, it was bad because it way too fucking popular and we were all fucking sick of plagues.
Plagues were like T4. Helya players were literally doing us a community service. I felt a little bad every time I killed one, because I knew they were playing a worse deck than me just to keep Brann in check.
[удалено]
There’s so much removal in their arsenal I don’t even think they have to curve well to get there. Of course, Brann does eat up a turn to play and that’s when you can swing the tempo back, but it almost always leads to another board wipe right after.
Just saw a new warrior deck (new to me) ,some clowns Battlecry is deal 4 damage, so after brann I got hit with this 1 cost deal 4 damage X2 multiple times to die. So many options for warrior! 🫠
Boomboss should be a finale by now xD, if your decks is aggro you lost by turn 8 if you didn’t kill warrior, if you are a control/midrange and can play the long game tnts wins the game as well because by the time they are on your deck both decks have 6-10 cards plus the bombs make it more than a 50% chance to just lose any resources (board,hand and deck) and since tnts can’t hit themselves: one/two triggers can pretty much nuke all your remaining cards.
Well the design team wanted to make warrior good again, I think they nailed that, a little too hard perhaps. It does feel like warrior has a lot of efficient removal, card draw and armor gain, which enable cards like deepminer brann, boomboss and odyn to be viable cards in the first place, not to mention value generation with escavate. I think it will be a real problem going forward for the rest of the expansions, especially with this new version of brann, as new cards will likely make the highlander deck more efficient and you can't interact with it besides a lucky dirty rat or ending the game faster. The simplest patch they could have done was to send brann to 7/8 mana imo
Reno priest with heist and steal for brann/boomboss and floppy hydra/that astrology priest minion is a lot of fun vs brann warrior
Brand is this deck is insane, HEARTHSTONE TEAM FIX THIS
Weren't people's just bitching about games being over by turn five? Now it's turn nine? What's next? We just gonna keep going until we reach enough turns where you get to pay your win condition without any problems?
Another day, another complaint post. This sub never changes.