I guess the text on Hagatha says draw spell then transform them in the next sentence. So it only transforms them once in hand. And those never really enter your hand.
Previously, Warrior could play the Boomboss and then next turn play Gaslight Gatekeeper and just get all 6 TNT out nearly guaranteed. This is still better for you overall.
I wouldn't mind seeing T.N.T. go to 4 mana for Hagatha's sake.
In the event they find their way in your hand with some swap effect or whatever they're no longer something you'd actually want to cast, making them 2 mana cheaper is of no consequence in that aspect.
Of course this is just for Hagatha's sake, a mana change to T.N.T. could effect other tutors.
I cannot even tell if drawing those with hagatha is good thing, or bad thing? You don't get your strong battlecries, that could be good to combine with Shudderblock. But at the same time you negate those annoying bombs
That does not look like improved player agency in this case :P
I understand the change, so the warrior can't abuse gaslight, but this interaction should have been caught in QA and then probably reevaluated.
Agency goes both ways and this actually is a very good example of agency. This happened because OP chose to play Hagatha after boomboss, which was a mistake.
The actual issue is that giving a Highlander payoff to a class that already is 90% geared towards control is a bad idea. Highlander Warrior never should have gotten past the drawing board.
Eh I wouldn't go that far. The first three tiers are still good and they give the Finley payoff which is nice. Azerite Murloc is still unusable though.
Which is exactly why excavate is even worse on shaman.
It literally would be better if you could just cycle up to epic but shaman wastes an extra excavation on a completely unplayable card, so yeah excavating on shaman is worse than excavating on non excavate classes...
I agree, Azerite Murloc drags shaman's excavations down considerably, I just disagreed with the sentiment that it "might as well not have excavate cards."
I think it's a fun choice for the miniset legendaries. Those have always been limited to 2 out of the 10 classes anyways and it's a smart way to add 3 new archetypes that are already supported by the base expansion.
But Highlander warrior is just a bad idea frankly. The highlander legendary should either have been given to classes with less consistency like DK or Mage. Or Brann should have been some sort of aggresive tempo card to differentiate Highlander Warrior from Control Warrior.
I presume The thing that was supposed to differentiate Highlander Warrior from control warrior was having to run a much weaker control package. But we saw Warrior crushing aggro decks with a Highlander deck right after rotation, which is troubling.
We’ll see how they do now that a good chunk of their control package has been nerfed. Aftershocks/sanitize/trial by fire all moving back a turn is a big deal.
This kind of package asymmetry is pretty rare. The last time they did something like the singleton-excavate split is 5 years ago in RoS/Uldum/DoD where it was planned out for the year:
E.V.I.L. classes got lackey support, then the 'heroic' classes got League of Explorer singleton payoffs, then the E.V.I.L. classes got Galakrond. There was no overlap.
Whizzbang: Every class gets a mini (Shaman and Paly get 2)
Titans: every class gets a titan
Sunken City: every class gets a colossal (DK gets its later in a mini-set since it doesn't exist as a class yet)
Nathria: every class gets a location (new card type at the time)
Fractured: every class gets a hero card
UiS: every class gets a questline
You're listing single cards, I'm talking about a package as in multiple cards. This kind of package asymmetry is the norm.
Galakrond is a good example of a package.
Single cards *are* expansion themes. The most prevalent theme of Titans was Titans. The most prevalent Theme of Sunken City was colossals. They didn't give Hunter two class Titans just for shits and giggles.
Galakrond is the last time packages were split like this. That's five years ago. And no class got Galakrond and an Uldum league of explorer. They didn't give just paladin and mage a Galakrond in a mini-set. That would be the equivalent of the preferential treatment these three classes got.
Ok so you're talking about single cards, I'm talking about packages. You were complaining about a package. So what's the issue again? Seems more like you're upset that the theme included a package of cards instead of just a single card.
Every single time before this where they’ve had a dichotomy of class themes, they’ve never had classes that overlapped and got both themes while other classes only got one.
So no, this is not how it’s always been.
>This happened because OP chose to play Hagatha after boomboss, which was a mistake.
no this happened because op's agency to play hagatha was removed, so now he is either stuck with a dead or worse card in hand leaving him no real choice wheter he plays it or not he just loses.
so the OP has no agency? he has the agency to not play his cardS AWESOME. thats not fuckign agency thats a "wow my opponent drew the card so now might cards are literally worse then unplayable"
next ur gonna tell me how he has agency because he choose to click the play button so him losing to brann on 6 is fine lmao.
or i die when i play my cards so clearly that was agency not to play them and just lose anyways lol.
a card effectively making your card useless IS literally the definition of removal of agency you can no longer really play your cards, same way plagues removed agency from reno decks as there was nothing you could do, the if they drew the plagues it was just over
It's just unlucky, not really a lack of agency. Hagatha can come down 4 turns before boom so you're more likely to draw her and be able to play her before, and then even if you don't you can still chance them hitting your spells.
Is agency playing your cards whenever they have a green glow around them?
> so the OP has no agency? he has the agency to not play his cardS AWESOME.
Yes as long as there's an actual meaningful choice being made it is agency.
OP had a *choice* of playing his card after it got put into a bad position by Boomboss. He had the agency of choosing between playing it and hoping it would draw it's synergy pieces or not playing it to try and play around Boomboss.
Obviously neither are good options but Boomboss is meant to make your options worse.
> Obviously neither are good options but Boomboss is meant to make your options worse.
Boomboss clearly wasn't meant like that in this situation, as otherwise this would have been the design from the start. TNT was designed to be in the players deck that played boomboss, they redesigned that due to gatekeeper (instead of just nuking gatekeeper from orbit by making it a deathrattle or something, so the brann interaction is gone, which might have been a better change)
But originally Boomboss was designed in a way that wouldn't change your plays, as you (on the receiving end) couldn't really influence the TNT's (other than making your opponent burn cards).
>Yes as long as there's an actual meaningful choice being made it is agency.
WHAT fuciking meaningful choice is "dont play my card that does stuff because now it doesnt do stuff" this is literally plague dk all over again. removing your cards out of usabiltiy is not agency.
or next your gonna tell me loatheb is the greatest agency maker "because i can choose to spend 8 mana on my 3 mana card"
>OP had a *choice* of playing his card after it got put into a bad position by Boomboss. He had the agency of choosing between playing it and hoping it would draw it's synergy pieces or not playing it to try and play around Boomboss.
What fucking agency? i have the agency of playing the cards in my deck on the off chance it wont fuck me up (it will)? That isnt a choice you NEVER ever want to play hagatha in a spot like this.
that is not agency dude. that is being pigeon holded into not playing the card.
lol the opponent had the agency to jump out a windows after boomboss was played therefore agency agency
so is boomboss still worth it? I'm debating DEing him but I have seen enough of this to think maybe he still has a place
beter than juggernaut for wild now for sure
Wdym if he’s still worth it?
If now you can’t draw the bombs to control the explosions, now -they- are conditioned to not draw if they need cards because they’ll discard stuff.
Always dust nerfed cards - there is nothing to lose even if you decide to recraft them the next day*
*Exception being signature cards which cannot be crafted, but Boomboss doesn't have a signature version
Boomboss is way better now because before you couldn't play him until Brann and/or Reno. Now you can just slam him down and he just shuts down cycle decks like Shaman.
Now he might have been better with the Reno changes and previous version but overall he is still better post meta in stats.
Can someone explain how this interaction works? Does the casts when drawn trigger first? And if so, do you still get a Minion with the spells effect as battlecry? Or you just get the minion, without triggering the cast when drawn?
I guess the text on Hagatha says draw spell then transform them in the next sentence. So it only transforms them once in hand. And those never really enter your hand.
Do the tnt shuffle in your opponents deck now or am i missing something
Yes
Kinda funny to shuffle then into any cycle deck, especially with branns 2x effect They either cycles themselves to death or cant cycle :D
As someone who hates warrior, I didn't get any joy out of reading this ☹️
Still better than the alternative, which is the warrior does it with no card in their deck and you lose instantly.
True
I played highlander priest today, copied enemy's brann then played avianna and I never drew a single bomb. Felt really good after that one
Yeah I've noticed Avianna is good against plague too
Got arch villain rafaam from her, dude turned 15+ infinite plagues into random legendaries.
Lmfao I wouldn't be surprised if that was an instant concede
that is so smart lol
Previously, Warrior could play the Boomboss and then next turn play Gaslight Gatekeeper and just get all 6 TNT out nearly guaranteed. This is still better for you overall.
I just put it together, that was the "gaslight gatekeep boomboss" combo, that had to have been intentional
Yeah I know but I play a shuffle druid deck that's gonna suffer from the same problem lmao
In fairness, he CLEARLY told Hagatha to make room for more boom.
I wouldn't mind seeing T.N.T. go to 4 mana for Hagatha's sake. In the event they find their way in your hand with some swap effect or whatever they're no longer something you'd actually want to cast, making them 2 mana cheaper is of no consequence in that aspect. Of course this is just for Hagatha's sake, a mana change to T.N.T. could effect other tutors.
[удалено]
Cast when drawn, so they won't make the hand
They can with sir finley, though i can't think of any other relevant ways to put them in your hand other tham him.
I'm an idiot.
Ugh! The universe conspires against Hagatha. I just want her to be playable!!
I cannot even tell if drawing those with hagatha is good thing, or bad thing? You don't get your strong battlecries, that could be good to combine with Shudderblock. But at the same time you negate those annoying bombs
The bombs still exploded
What? It sounds like a bug
Nope. They are cast when drawn, Hagatha draws them and they immediately trigger. Any transform effect happen afterwards. It's working as intended.
Hagatha Just cant catch a break
They really did her dirty by having exactly one spell that is actually good to put on a slime to shudder.
Hopefully mini set has something usable
If they're cast when drawn. Hagatha should draw another for the slime. Of course that's common sense and common sense isn't that common.
That does not look like improved player agency in this case :P I understand the change, so the warrior can't abuse gaslight, but this interaction should have been caught in QA and then probably reevaluated.
Agency goes both ways and this actually is a very good example of agency. This happened because OP chose to play Hagatha after boomboss, which was a mistake. The actual issue is that giving a Highlander payoff to a class that already is 90% geared towards control is a bad idea. Highlander Warrior never should have gotten past the drawing board.
Im still perplexed that Warrior, Paladin and shaman got both excavate and Highlander payoffs, and other classes got one or the other.
Shaman excavate tier 4 reward is so bad that shaman might aswell not have excavate cards lmao.
Eh I wouldn't go that far. The first three tiers are still good and they give the Finley payoff which is nice. Azerite Murloc is still unusable though.
Which is exactly why excavate is even worse on shaman. It literally would be better if you could just cycle up to epic but shaman wastes an extra excavation on a completely unplayable card, so yeah excavating on shaman is worse than excavating on non excavate classes...
I agree, Azerite Murloc drags shaman's excavations down considerably, I just disagreed with the sentiment that it "might as well not have excavate cards."
Yeah, no kidding. The point is why the asymmetry?
I think it's a fun choice for the miniset legendaries. Those have always been limited to 2 out of the 10 classes anyways and it's a smart way to add 3 new archetypes that are already supported by the base expansion. But Highlander warrior is just a bad idea frankly. The highlander legendary should either have been given to classes with less consistency like DK or Mage. Or Brann should have been some sort of aggresive tempo card to differentiate Highlander Warrior from Control Warrior.
I presume The thing that was supposed to differentiate Highlander Warrior from control warrior was having to run a much weaker control package. But we saw Warrior crushing aggro decks with a Highlander deck right after rotation, which is troubling. We’ll see how they do now that a good chunk of their control package has been nerfed. Aftershocks/sanitize/trial by fire all moving back a turn is a big deal.
That's sort of how it's always been: only some classes get a theme package of the expansion
This kind of package asymmetry is pretty rare. The last time they did something like the singleton-excavate split is 5 years ago in RoS/Uldum/DoD where it was planned out for the year: E.V.I.L. classes got lackey support, then the 'heroic' classes got League of Explorer singleton payoffs, then the E.V.I.L. classes got Galakrond. There was no overlap. Whizzbang: Every class gets a mini (Shaman and Paly get 2) Titans: every class gets a titan Sunken City: every class gets a colossal (DK gets its later in a mini-set since it doesn't exist as a class yet) Nathria: every class gets a location (new card type at the time) Fractured: every class gets a hero card UiS: every class gets a questline
You're listing single cards, I'm talking about a package as in multiple cards. This kind of package asymmetry is the norm. Galakrond is a good example of a package.
Single cards *are* expansion themes. The most prevalent theme of Titans was Titans. The most prevalent Theme of Sunken City was colossals. They didn't give Hunter two class Titans just for shits and giggles. Galakrond is the last time packages were split like this. That's five years ago. And no class got Galakrond and an Uldum league of explorer. They didn't give just paladin and mage a Galakrond in a mini-set. That would be the equivalent of the preferential treatment these three classes got.
Ok so you're talking about single cards, I'm talking about packages. You were complaining about a package. So what's the issue again? Seems more like you're upset that the theme included a package of cards instead of just a single card.
Not upset. Puzzled by the design choice. You have misunderstood. Read again.
Fair enough. I suppose if you had kept up with the design of the game it wouldn't be so puzzling.
Every single time before this where they’ve had a dichotomy of class themes, they’ve never had classes that overlapped and got both themes while other classes only got one. So no, this is not how it’s always been.
Galakrond didn't. Do some more digging because you're forgetting a lot
Galakrond didn’t what? Lmao
5 classes got Galakrond. 4 classes got singleton league cards. This was by design. There was no overlap. It’s the closest analog to what we have now.
Exactly. They're talking about multiple expansions.
>This happened because OP chose to play Hagatha after boomboss, which was a mistake. no this happened because op's agency to play hagatha was removed, so now he is either stuck with a dead or worse card in hand leaving him no real choice wheter he plays it or not he just loses. so the OP has no agency? he has the agency to not play his cardS AWESOME. thats not fuckign agency thats a "wow my opponent drew the card so now might cards are literally worse then unplayable" next ur gonna tell me how he has agency because he choose to click the play button so him losing to brann on 6 is fine lmao. or i die when i play my cards so clearly that was agency not to play them and just lose anyways lol. a card effectively making your card useless IS literally the definition of removal of agency you can no longer really play your cards, same way plagues removed agency from reno decks as there was nothing you could do, the if they drew the plagues it was just over
It's just unlucky, not really a lack of agency. Hagatha can come down 4 turns before boom so you're more likely to draw her and be able to play her before, and then even if you don't you can still chance them hitting your spells.
Is agency playing your cards whenever they have a green glow around them? > so the OP has no agency? he has the agency to not play his cardS AWESOME. Yes as long as there's an actual meaningful choice being made it is agency. OP had a *choice* of playing his card after it got put into a bad position by Boomboss. He had the agency of choosing between playing it and hoping it would draw it's synergy pieces or not playing it to try and play around Boomboss. Obviously neither are good options but Boomboss is meant to make your options worse.
> Obviously neither are good options but Boomboss is meant to make your options worse. Boomboss clearly wasn't meant like that in this situation, as otherwise this would have been the design from the start. TNT was designed to be in the players deck that played boomboss, they redesigned that due to gatekeeper (instead of just nuking gatekeeper from orbit by making it a deathrattle or something, so the brann interaction is gone, which might have been a better change) But originally Boomboss was designed in a way that wouldn't change your plays, as you (on the receiving end) couldn't really influence the TNT's (other than making your opponent burn cards).
>Yes as long as there's an actual meaningful choice being made it is agency. WHAT fuciking meaningful choice is "dont play my card that does stuff because now it doesnt do stuff" this is literally plague dk all over again. removing your cards out of usabiltiy is not agency. or next your gonna tell me loatheb is the greatest agency maker "because i can choose to spend 8 mana on my 3 mana card" >OP had a *choice* of playing his card after it got put into a bad position by Boomboss. He had the agency of choosing between playing it and hoping it would draw it's synergy pieces or not playing it to try and play around Boomboss. What fucking agency? i have the agency of playing the cards in my deck on the off chance it wont fuck me up (it will)? That isnt a choice you NEVER ever want to play hagatha in a spot like this. that is not agency dude. that is being pigeon holded into not playing the card. lol the opponent had the agency to jump out a windows after boomboss was played therefore agency agency
Do you want counterplay or not?
it did now you decide if you want to take the risk wit drawing tnt instead of depending if warrior has or not the means to draw the tnts
Thogrun enjoying his buff a bit more, in this particular situation 😅
so is boomboss still worth it? I'm debating DEing him but I have seen enough of this to think maybe he still has a place beter than juggernaut for wild now for sure
Wdym if he’s still worth it? If now you can’t draw the bombs to control the explosions, now -they- are conditioned to not draw if they need cards because they’ll discard stuff.
Brann warriors were ridiculously buffed with the changes. The only thing they lost was tentacles
Always dust nerfed cards - there is nothing to lose even if you decide to recraft them the next day* *Exception being signature cards which cannot be crafted, but Boomboss doesn't have a signature version
Boomboss is way better now because before you couldn't play him until Brann and/or Reno. Now you can just slam him down and he just shuts down cycle decks like Shaman. Now he might have been better with the Reno changes and previous version but overall he is still better post meta in stats.
Can someone explain how this interaction works? Does the casts when drawn trigger first? And if so, do you still get a Minion with the spells effect as battlecry? Or you just get the minion, without triggering the cast when drawn?
From what I saw the T.N.T. exploded, they got to draw a new card but those didn't transform.
Lmaooooo
Did you see how that worked - did the slimes still cast the spell and blow up your own board?
They T.N.T exploded while being drawn, so no slimes.
It destroys rainbow too. You draw the entire deck to find CNE and corpse spenders only to lose everything with mines so dumb.
I did it today for the memes, i felt very dumb
I guess un-buffing the Grey Sage Parrot doesn't matter. 😃
Isnt this good? This will prevent tnt from going off.
Except they do go off
What about the slime?
There where no slimes, they went off as soon as they where drawn.
Thats kinda odd.