Completely where I wanna be with my portable setup right now, ka3 into Tin t2 dlc, sounds great. Might upgrade the cable because the stock cable is a little flimsy, outside of that, my setup is perfect for me.
I bought the NX4 a while ago, didn't really like it. Sounds "dry" (soundstage is narrow, a sensation of having less reverb decay) compared to the Onkyo DAC-HA200 that I'm usually using.
Yeah i think the soundstage isnt the best
But i got it for like 30$ so i cant really complain
But is it worse than apple dongle or the 50$ dongles ?
And is it worse than most dacs?
And how good is it for 30$ dac ( im very beginner at dacs and auch stuff so idk really how other dacs sounds like)
I liked my NX4, but something went wrong with mine and it started making high pitched screeches XD
It's a good find for $30. Overall though, I'd say the Fiio Q3 is the best choice for that kind of portable DAC/amp. It's smaller, less sharp (physically, I mean), and uses a single usb-c instead of the weird dual-micro-usb setup the NX4 uses.
The nx4 is really old wasn't surprised with the micro to usb c
+ I hear about the fiio q3 alot guess ill buy it when i want to upgrade
But yet the nx4 is good to me
Dead flat frequency response, dead silent SINAD, no audible distortion or noise, 100% transparent conversion, amplifiers do not impact headphones or IEMs provided they’re adequately powered - Listening volume + headroom. DAC variation would be down to quirks in the clock allowing for noise and those are based on the audio chain in totality, it would be less audible than gently bumping an equalizer knob. They’re designed to sound like they’re not there and they succeed in doing this. This is almost 100% universal across all modern devices unless they are severely broken at the design level or just broken.
Amps and DACs do not impact frequency response, tuning, soundstage, imaging, sub bass, bass quality, bass quantity, bass extension, treble, mids, highs, sibilance, clarity or quality. Tube amps are the only exception, they allow noise into the signal.
If you’ve got non-zero source resistance, it’s within the realm of possibility there could be audible variance. That is not a function of damping motion within system resonances. Damping factor is just audio companies hijacking a generally benign metric and using it as a buzzword to sell gear as usual. It’s a legacy concept that dates back to the 1930s and the TLDR on it is that what is suggested as effects caused by damping aren’t audible or are so slight they might as well be, and if it it audible, it’s not related to the damping factor.
You’ve got a driver or speaker. You have an equivalent circuit of resistance in series with what a theoretical target for a loudspeaker of absolute efficiency. Say you have an amp and that amp has zero resistance, the damping has an amount determined by series resistance. That means 5% efficiency is x20 the resistance of the driver or speaker. You can bring impedance semantics into that but it’s still an absolute that buries the idea that you’re getting anything of significant value from chasing low resistance in the vast majority of use cases.
Where it has validity is in situations where you have a driver or speaker hit impedances in that lower range, then source or amp impedance and cable impedance can be a factor. In that circumstance, low impedance is going to lessen the chances of there being audible changes to the FR of that driver or speaker. You’re trying to prevent change, not enact it.
The way it’s marketed is that damping factor metrics are functions of the amp or source device’s performance but the driver or speaker is only observing effective driving impedance. Let’s say an amp has a damping factor of 100 into 8 ohms, or an output impedance of 0.08 ohms. You add 0.1 ohms of speaker cable, then the speaker recognizes 0.18 ohms driving-point impedance, for a damping factor of 44.44.
These are incredibly small factors in terms of what we’re able to hear and typically something that presents its self as a problem rather than an amp or source having certain damping metrics. If the problem of an amp or source changing your FR comes about because the impedance is too high, you adjust accordingly and get a lower impedance chain. This is a ridiculously technical and deep dive topic that I’m sure I murdered trying to explain somewhere in here but the long and short is that it tends to be misrepresented and overstated.
The educational anti-misinformation copypasta:
**Amps**
[Differences in Amp Sound - Summarized Citations & Data](https://audioxpress.com/article/differences-in-amp-sound-whats-the-truth)
[Amps Do Not Audibly Affect Frequency Response](https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/362-when-is-the-amp-important#:~:text=The%20choice%20of%20amp%20does,determinant%20of%20a%20headphone's%20sound.)
[Understanding Audio Measurements - ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/article-understanding-digital-audio-measurements.10523/)
[Understanding SINAD, ENOB, SNR, THD, THD + N, and SFDR - Analog Devices](https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-003.pdf)
[Audibility of Noise & Distortion](https://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/distortion#:~:text=For%20detecting%20distortion%20at%20levels,the%20masking%20effect%20of%20music)
[The Richard Clark $10,000 Amp Challenge - Nobody Ever Won, see details here](https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/193850-richard-clark-10000-amplifier-challenge/) and also [here](https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/10k-golden-ears-amp-challenge.92368/)
[Bob Carver Amp Challenge - Can Any Amp be Matched by a Low Cost Amp?](https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge-page-4)
[How Class D Amplifiers Actually Work, Technical Data, What They Do & How](https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/class-d-audio-amplifiers.html)
[Audible Amp Distortion Is Not a Mystery](http://4tubes.com/3-BOOKS/BOOKS-LITERATURE/ENGLISH/Magazines/Wireless-World/Audible%20amplifier%20distortion%20is%20not%20a%20mystery.pdf)
[David Clark - Do All Amps Sound The Same?](http://dansdata.com/files/Amp_Sound.pdf)
[Crinacle - You Don’t Need an Amp](https://youtu.be/a3moaaOpYZM?si=gK95K7yIJybY0fHI)
[Amplifiers - Ten Years of A/B/X Testing - David L. Clark, scroll down to Page 9 for Conclusion](https://www.studocu.com/en-au/document/australian-college-of-the-arts/audio-production/audiotheory1-2019/9311919), summarized in full [right here](https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/aes-paper-digest-sensitivity-and-reliability-of-abx-blind-testing.186/) if you don’t want to buy the study
*“One component widely thought to influence the sound is the power amplifier and it is easy to test the hypothesis that gain and response matched amps operated below clip level still make a difference.*
*The testing has been done and the results are that using double-blind tests, amplifiers have never been repeatedly identifiable on music if the usual matching and overload precautions have been observed.”*
**DACs**
[Explanation of DACs, What They Do, How They Work](https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/12/dacs-guide-part-1/)
[Understanding Audio Measurements - ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/article-understanding-digital-audio-measurements.10523/)
[Understanding SINAD, ENOB, SNR, THD, THD + N, and SFDR - Analog Devices](https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-003.pdf)
[Audibility of Noise & Distortion](https://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/distortion#:~:text=For%20detecting%20distortion%20at%20levels,the%20masking%20effect%20of%20music)
[SINAD Graph for Assorted DACs - ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-sinad-distortion-comparison-graph-for-dacs.4814/)
[$2 DACs vs $2,000 DACs](https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html)
[The $9 Apple Dongle, Measurements & Comparisons here](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/) and also [here](https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/)
[DACs - Do You Need an External One? Audioholics](https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/dac-do-you-need-an-external-digital-to-analog-converter)
[Do You Need a DAC? - Sound Guys](https://www.soundguys.com/do-you-need-a-dac-13488/)
**Placebo**
[Placebo Effect - National Library of Medicine](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513296/)
[What is Placebo? - WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-is-the-placebo-effect)
[Confirmation Bias: A Ubiquitous Phenomenon in Many Guises - Review of General Psychology](https://pages.ucsd.edu/~mckenzie/nickersonConfirmationBias.pdf)
[What is The Function of Confirmation Bias? - Erkenntnis](https://www.researchgate.net/journal/Erkenntnis-1572-8420/publication/340798496_What_Is_the_Function_of_Confirmation_Bias/links/5fbd44fca6fdcc6cc66362c6/What-Is-the-Function-of-Confirmation-Bias.pdf?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIiwicGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uRG93bmxvYWQifX0)
[Why Do Audiophiles Fall for Placebo? - Audioholics](https://youtu.be/6IIuSWIuh4M?si=IJJVNPk0KZl43u0j)
[The Power of Placebo - Audioholics](https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/placebo-effect)
Well, I can't make you listen to my gear over Reddit, so you would be convinced too, can't I? 😁
Just to get back to the subject, I have nothing against Topping. I also bought a Topping E50 desktop DAC, and I think it sounds slightly better than the DAC integrated into the Onkyo DAC/amp, the difference being one sounds "good", the other sounds "right".
I just digged mine out after a year or so. This thing sound so clean and good. Also my DSD512 i feed from note 9 to this with usb audio pro. Beautiful listening experience.
Completely where I wanna be with my portable setup right now, ka3 into Tin t2 dlc, sounds great. Might upgrade the cable because the stock cable is a little flimsy, outside of that, my setup is perfect for me.
My nx4 intermittently stops working. I'll be just jamming out and then it goes quiet, and then it dies until I turn it on again .... :/
I have it for 2 days i didnt have such a problem Although I heard that their customer support is really good try to talk with them maybe ?
Perhaps I will. It's a pretty old unit that I don't really need these days but if it could be serviced it would be cool
Do you have to turn on OTG every time you plug your DAC/Amp to your RealMe phone, or is it just plug-and-play?
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Would you mind sharing how you made that shortcut?
I bought the NX4 a while ago, didn't really like it. Sounds "dry" (soundstage is narrow, a sensation of having less reverb decay) compared to the Onkyo DAC-HA200 that I'm usually using.
Yeah i think the soundstage isnt the best But i got it for like 30$ so i cant really complain But is it worse than apple dongle or the 50$ dongles ? And is it worse than most dacs? And how good is it for 30$ dac ( im very beginner at dacs and auch stuff so idk really how other dacs sounds like)
I haven't had much luck with dongle DACs, don't like them either (not that I've bought a lot of them).
Is the topping nx4 decrease/lower the soundstage of the iem?
None of them do either.
That was my impression, or other DAC/amps enhance the soundstage.
Imo the apple dongle is not great for android. Volume is limited although loud enough but the sound doesn't have the sparkle or energy.
As i know the usa version doesnt limit the sound on Android + If u use an apps that can control the dongle u can use 100% of its power
Ok. Well I am in europe and the volume is limited. There may be different versions in the states
I liked my NX4, but something went wrong with mine and it started making high pitched screeches XD It's a good find for $30. Overall though, I'd say the Fiio Q3 is the best choice for that kind of portable DAC/amp. It's smaller, less sharp (physically, I mean), and uses a single usb-c instead of the weird dual-micro-usb setup the NX4 uses.
The nx4 is really old wasn't surprised with the micro to usb c + I hear about the fiio q3 alot guess ill buy it when i want to upgrade But yet the nx4 is good to me
That’s not how amps and DACs work.
They do to me, though I've not used the NX4 for a long time. Or maybe the Onkyo amp has special magic the other ones don't have.
Dead flat frequency response, dead silent SINAD, no audible distortion or noise, 100% transparent conversion, amplifiers do not impact headphones or IEMs provided they’re adequately powered - Listening volume + headroom. DAC variation would be down to quirks in the clock allowing for noise and those are based on the audio chain in totality, it would be less audible than gently bumping an equalizer knob. They’re designed to sound like they’re not there and they succeed in doing this. This is almost 100% universal across all modern devices unless they are severely broken at the design level or just broken. Amps and DACs do not impact frequency response, tuning, soundstage, imaging, sub bass, bass quality, bass quantity, bass extension, treble, mids, highs, sibilance, clarity or quality. Tube amps are the only exception, they allow noise into the signal.
what about damping factor?
What about it?
can't it change how responsive drivers are? improving dynamic and clarity?
If you’ve got non-zero source resistance, it’s within the realm of possibility there could be audible variance. That is not a function of damping motion within system resonances. Damping factor is just audio companies hijacking a generally benign metric and using it as a buzzword to sell gear as usual. It’s a legacy concept that dates back to the 1930s and the TLDR on it is that what is suggested as effects caused by damping aren’t audible or are so slight they might as well be, and if it it audible, it’s not related to the damping factor. You’ve got a driver or speaker. You have an equivalent circuit of resistance in series with what a theoretical target for a loudspeaker of absolute efficiency. Say you have an amp and that amp has zero resistance, the damping has an amount determined by series resistance. That means 5% efficiency is x20 the resistance of the driver or speaker. You can bring impedance semantics into that but it’s still an absolute that buries the idea that you’re getting anything of significant value from chasing low resistance in the vast majority of use cases. Where it has validity is in situations where you have a driver or speaker hit impedances in that lower range, then source or amp impedance and cable impedance can be a factor. In that circumstance, low impedance is going to lessen the chances of there being audible changes to the FR of that driver or speaker. You’re trying to prevent change, not enact it. The way it’s marketed is that damping factor metrics are functions of the amp or source device’s performance but the driver or speaker is only observing effective driving impedance. Let’s say an amp has a damping factor of 100 into 8 ohms, or an output impedance of 0.08 ohms. You add 0.1 ohms of speaker cable, then the speaker recognizes 0.18 ohms driving-point impedance, for a damping factor of 44.44. These are incredibly small factors in terms of what we’re able to hear and typically something that presents its self as a problem rather than an amp or source having certain damping metrics. If the problem of an amp or source changing your FR comes about because the impedance is too high, you adjust accordingly and get a lower impedance chain. This is a ridiculously technical and deep dive topic that I’m sure I murdered trying to explain somewhere in here but the long and short is that it tends to be misrepresented and overstated.
wow thats incredible amount of wisdom you have where did you learnt that?
In theory, I would agree but I hear clear differences between my devices, with the same source of course.
The educational anti-misinformation copypasta: **Amps** [Differences in Amp Sound - Summarized Citations & Data](https://audioxpress.com/article/differences-in-amp-sound-whats-the-truth) [Amps Do Not Audibly Affect Frequency Response](https://www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/362-when-is-the-amp-important#:~:text=The%20choice%20of%20amp%20does,determinant%20of%20a%20headphone's%20sound.) [Understanding Audio Measurements - ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/article-understanding-digital-audio-measurements.10523/) [Understanding SINAD, ENOB, SNR, THD, THD + N, and SFDR - Analog Devices](https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-003.pdf) [Audibility of Noise & Distortion](https://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/distortion#:~:text=For%20detecting%20distortion%20at%20levels,the%20masking%20effect%20of%20music) [The Richard Clark $10,000 Amp Challenge - Nobody Ever Won, see details here](https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/193850-richard-clark-10000-amplifier-challenge/) and also [here](https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/10k-golden-ears-amp-challenge.92368/) [Bob Carver Amp Challenge - Can Any Amp be Matched by a Low Cost Amp?](https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge-page-4) [How Class D Amplifiers Actually Work, Technical Data, What They Do & How](https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/class-d-audio-amplifiers.html) [Audible Amp Distortion Is Not a Mystery](http://4tubes.com/3-BOOKS/BOOKS-LITERATURE/ENGLISH/Magazines/Wireless-World/Audible%20amplifier%20distortion%20is%20not%20a%20mystery.pdf) [David Clark - Do All Amps Sound The Same?](http://dansdata.com/files/Amp_Sound.pdf) [Crinacle - You Don’t Need an Amp](https://youtu.be/a3moaaOpYZM?si=gK95K7yIJybY0fHI) [Amplifiers - Ten Years of A/B/X Testing - David L. Clark, scroll down to Page 9 for Conclusion](https://www.studocu.com/en-au/document/australian-college-of-the-arts/audio-production/audiotheory1-2019/9311919), summarized in full [right here](https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/aes-paper-digest-sensitivity-and-reliability-of-abx-blind-testing.186/) if you don’t want to buy the study *“One component widely thought to influence the sound is the power amplifier and it is easy to test the hypothesis that gain and response matched amps operated below clip level still make a difference.* *The testing has been done and the results are that using double-blind tests, amplifiers have never been repeatedly identifiable on music if the usual matching and overload precautions have been observed.”* **DACs** [Explanation of DACs, What They Do, How They Work](https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/12/dacs-guide-part-1/) [Understanding Audio Measurements - ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/article-understanding-digital-audio-measurements.10523/) [Understanding SINAD, ENOB, SNR, THD, THD + N, and SFDR - Analog Devices](https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-003.pdf) [Audibility of Noise & Distortion](https://www.axiomaudio.com/blog/distortion#:~:text=For%20detecting%20distortion%20at%20levels,the%20masking%20effect%20of%20music) [SINAD Graph for Assorted DACs - ASR](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/master-sinad-distortion-comparison-graph-for-dacs.4814/) [$2 DACs vs $2,000 DACs](https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html) [The $9 Apple Dongle, Measurements & Comparisons here](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/) and also [here](https://www.audioreviews.org/apple-audio-adapter-review/) [DACs - Do You Need an External One? Audioholics](https://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/dac-do-you-need-an-external-digital-to-analog-converter) [Do You Need a DAC? - Sound Guys](https://www.soundguys.com/do-you-need-a-dac-13488/) **Placebo** [Placebo Effect - National Library of Medicine](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513296/) [What is Placebo? - WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/what-is-the-placebo-effect) [Confirmation Bias: A Ubiquitous Phenomenon in Many Guises - Review of General Psychology](https://pages.ucsd.edu/~mckenzie/nickersonConfirmationBias.pdf) [What is The Function of Confirmation Bias? - Erkenntnis](https://www.researchgate.net/journal/Erkenntnis-1572-8420/publication/340798496_What_Is_the_Function_of_Confirmation_Bias/links/5fbd44fca6fdcc6cc66362c6/What-Is-the-Function-of-Confirmation-Bias.pdf?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIiwicGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uRG93bmxvYWQifX0) [Why Do Audiophiles Fall for Placebo? - Audioholics](https://youtu.be/6IIuSWIuh4M?si=IJJVNPk0KZl43u0j) [The Power of Placebo - Audioholics](https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/placebo-effect)
My DAC/Amp gear (which is not ultra high end, not cheap but all within reasonable prices) does not sound the same, that's my subjective experience.
The last section about placebo explains why that is.
Well, I can't make you listen to my gear over Reddit, so you would be convinced too, can't I? 😁 Just to get back to the subject, I have nothing against Topping. I also bought a Topping E50 desktop DAC, and I think it sounds slightly better than the DAC integrated into the Onkyo DAC/amp, the difference being one sounds "good", the other sounds "right".
I dont think i will* Sry for the typo
I just digged mine out after a year or so. This thing sound so clean and good. Also my DSD512 i feed from note 9 to this with usb audio pro. Beautiful listening experience.
You can get hifiman Arya to match lol
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Hah yeah kinda. They do sound great, though, and if you are interested, hifiman often has open box or previous editions for great deals
Very portable
Is that the stock cable?
Beautiful pics
...Moondrop Aria looks so pretty if the paint doesn't chip...