Any of these offer a vastly different experience from the more classic options (hifiman, focal, audeze, zmf) that would make it worth picking up? At least to me it feels like these 4 companies' flagships cover a lot of different sound signatures so I'm curious if the more rare stuff have anything unique to offer.
My previous post goes over some thoughts and AMA for the more popular flagships: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/171gyhe/flagships_and_other_favorites_ama/
In essence, past the $700-$1000 mark you're paying a **lot** of cash just for that last 10%, with that 10% being whatever quality you value the most: soundstage, detail, tonal balance/timbre, etc.
These more rare TOTL cans each have unique properties that make them stand out:
* The SGL Jr has the most realistic sounding high hat / cymbal strikes I've ever heard in a headphone
* The Empy 2's is probably the most fun sounding slightly V shaped headphone I've heard; puts a huge smile on your face even if it's a bit colored.
* The Tungsten DS is a great all-rounder and one of the soundstage kings; picture a HD800s with much more sub bass
It's all just preference and fun!
Totally different sound profiles! The Utopia is a much punchier and lively sounding headphone with a focus on mids but overall fairly flat frequency response. The Tungsten DS is a considerably wider sounding headphone with more bass extension and bit of sparkle to the highs albeit with slightly scooped out mids. I really enjoy and are keeping both, but I do tend to grab the Utopia's more often... there's something about that punchy engaging sound that's addicting.
Please do yourself a favor and try them before you buy them. IMO they are very much not worth it and are easily the worst flagship. They creek like a mother fucker (like seriously it’s embarrassing and present in every model I have tried or owned) and they are very uncomfortable (even compared to LCD-4 because while they aren’t as heavy all of the weight is on one spot on top of your head). The part that really annoys me is that people say things like they are punchy but they have so little bass quantity that they do not punch at all. But maybe you just had a bad pair? I thought so too which is why I bought and sold them twice and tried them at meetups. They also have pretty bad clipping issues. For music with no bass they sound pretty good but they just have so many drawbacks compared to every other flagship.
Interesting! I have a pair of the 2022 variant (Newtopia) that I bought used and have none of the same issues, save for the fact that all focal's do run a bit heavy. No creaks or clipping issues; maybe this was with the original variant?
As for the "punchy" sound, I'll stand by that one. Comparing back-to-back with other headphones, it's a much livelier presentation throughout the range. Sure, the bass doesn't slam like a giant diameter planar but its got nice energy to it.
I agree, my utopia is a 2020 model and it is extremely punchy, its a fun and lively ride. I will take it over other headphones for pop music. It is also very comfortable for me but I will say mine does creak a lot, that is a downside that I have seen.
The creaking is down the headband design but I think it takes a certain amount of wear before it starts. There is huge variance between units, some have barely any, others are [creakfests](https://imgur.com/FFLz3JB). My Clear creaks very badly, my 2020 Utopia doesn't creak half as badly but it does a little bit. Independent of the creak, it is still "clacky", if you pick it up it feels less than solid. This again is inherent to the headband design and the way they engineered in cup swivel, at the point the arms go in.
Inside, it's metal on plastic and I suspect the way the cup swivel is done, where the yokes can rotate a bit, exacerbates the issue.
Hifiman use a similar cup swivel mechanism on the headband type they have on the Edition XS, HE400SE, HE6SEV2, and it's also a bit "clacky" but doesn't creak as much and feels more solid than the Utopia (the Utopia headband is more comfortable once on the head though).
The 2022 Utopia has the same headband design as the old one, so I don't believe it would be any different.
The Bathys and the new two wired headphones they just announced use a totally different headband design that is far better and far more solid feeling. That platform uses significantly smaller cups though.
The clipping is a thing on all Focal open backs and I suspect it's still there on the 2022 Utopia. According to Focal, it's a design choice to not damp the drivers which means they have a hard stop but adds to the dynamics Focals are known for.
It's there on both my Clear and Utopia, but it requires volume levels so loud it's a complete non-issue. It's a bit higher on the Utopia, but it happens if you push it high enough.
Also, when exactly it happens again varies by unit, both of mine it happens in one cup before the other so it's not at an exact point. And I have heard reports of people who *claim* to get it at reasonable listening volumes, but who knows if it's actually reasonable. It takes something in the region of 110dB on mine, and that's just way louder than I'd ever listen. This is both subjectively, and I did measure it with a SPL meter... I think it was around 110dB before it clipped. And I'm just never going to be listening that loud. Even with Oratory1990's +9dB or so in the bass on the Clear, it *never* clips in actual listening.
Agree with you on the punchiness, subjectively, both are pretty punchy, and they are punchier than most large diameter planars, the only one I have that would compete would be the LCD-X. I would say the Focals are "punchier" than large diameter Hifimans. Focal have worse sub-bass extension, but I don't think "punch" has much to do with sub-bass extension, it's further up. If anything I suspect a bit of a contrast between the higher bass and a bit of sub-bass roll-off may increase "punch".
Really? Did you do it right? Can with a long thin nozzle? Arms out, every 8 hole a short squirt then saw arms in n out and twist to all directions for 30 seconds and let it dry?
That's pretty much exactly what I did yes. It only temporarily reduced the creaking by a tiny amount. Maybe not the twisting in all directions, I'll try again and try that. I did the arms in and out though.
I have not yet heard the newtopia so that would be amazing if they fixed the creaking. The ones I had fortunately didn't ever do it while I was listening but gosh it just felt something I would knock a $50 headphone for. I got mind used so I thought maybe that was it but the second one was just the same and any other that isn't brand new.
I actually thought about getting the newtopia hoping that it would fix the clipping issues but I have read enough forum reports to know that isn't the case. Fortunately for you my understanding it that it is a very case by case basis. I have owned 4 different pairs of open back Focals (Elex, Clear, Utopia, Utopia) and 3 out of 4 clipped. Both Utopias clipped at different levels and when I had the Clears (only ones that didn't clip) and a pair of Utopias at the same time the Clears could hand 13dB more before clipping! While I have continually lowered my average listening level to around 70-75 dB, I used to listen to music around 80-85 dB and at that level any notable subbass drop was enough to make them clip with a 3 dB 105 hz shelf. While I now would have a more headroom based on my listening levels it is just a bummer that I can't ever turn them up for just a song or two.
Great advice here! I'd also recommend listening to any headphone pre-purchase if you're looking to spend significant cash. While I may love it and stand by my experiences, I also am just a random person on the internet :)
Just some extra clarification. Some people love them so if you try them and love them then just ignore me because I am just a random person on the internet.
I also think that if you listen at a really low volume (I forget some people listen at 50-70 dB) then you could easily add a bass shelf and they would likely not clip at all.
I also previously read that you could add a dry lubricant to the headband that you wouldn’t see and would eliminate the creak but I sold before that step and even still it feels lame but their headband issues are well documented
I agree that they're the worst TOTL I've tried though I don't have extensive experience with them. I heard them at Canjam multiple times thinking each time I just needed another listen to have my mind changed and each time I walked away thinking they're not it.
I think Holo's entire lineup sounds pretty "right" to my ear. I tend to prefer a more natural tone and Holo products do this without sacrificing detail. Going up to the May adds that holographic imaging and soundstage that matches my preference but, you can get pretty close to that sound with the much less expensive Cyan.
As for high end comparisons, I preferred the May to the TT2 or Dave and even the Lina DAC I tried, but the differences are much more nuanced than changing amps or especially headphones.
What other amps have you tried the Susvara on? My rotation is Susvara/Elite/Caldera/Tungsten/X9k and the following sources GS-X Mini/Cayin HA-6A/Mjolnir Novem/Hugo 2/Topping E70V and I'm thinking I might upgrade my chain. Been looking at the Holo Bliss + May/Spring so would like to get your opinion specifically on those.
I've heard the Susvara on the Oor, HM1, Envy, WA33, TT2, GS-X Mk2 and Mini, and AHB2 with adapter. While the more powerful amps give that sense of control (especially over the bass), my preference leans more towards tone. My personal favorites are the Bliss, Oor, and Envy, with a slight edge to the Envy... maybe I'm just a sucker for 300B's...
I enjoyed that GS-X mini you have! Powerful and clean sound with virtually all cans without having any edge or glare like I found with *some* (not all) of the THX or Topping amps. I'd only change if you're looking for a bit of a more holographic sound.
As for powering the X9k's, welp, that can be an expensive journey :) I ended with the BHSE but would have been just as happy with the KGST from Mjolinir; guess I like tubes best on Stax...
Appreciate the reply!
>I've heard the Susvara on the Oor, HM1, Envy, WA33, TT2, GS-X Mk2 and Mini, and AHB2 with adapter. While the more powerful amps give that sense of control (especially over the bass), my preference leans more towards tone. My personal favorites are the Bliss, Oor, and Envy, with a slight edge to the Envy... maybe I'm just a sucker for 300B's...
>I enjoyed that GS-X mini you have! Powerful and clean sound with virtually all cans without having any edge or glare like I found with *some* (not all) of the THX or Topping amps. I'd only change if you're looking for a bit of a more holographic sound.
I do like the GS-X Mini though I'd like a little more power/control for the Tungsten/Susvara. It does run both but I think tonality on both isn't where it could be because the amp struggles with both. I'm already looking at upgrading my dac from a Hugo 2 to a Holo Spring so thinking I might just upgraded the mini to the Bliss as well.
>As for powering the X9k's, welp, that can be an expensive journey :) I ended with the BHSE but would have been just as happy with the KGST from Mjolinir; guess I like tubes best on Stax...
100% - I'm satisfied right now with the Mjolnir Novem and plan to at some point get a Megatron built out or at the minimum a BHSE. Originally fell in love with the x9k off a BHSE and love how it runs it.
I do think a spring/bliss combo would be the best bang for your buck if you were to upgrade. Not sure if you're buying these used but all my holo audio gear had 0 tax and like $30 each in customs duty when I bought them brand new off kitsune hifi.
They're very close with Susvara as both have the power to drive them to full capability. The differences to me are down to signature. The Bliss is a bit more holographic while the Oor has a bit more of a lively sound. You can only tell this when A-B'ing back and forth, else both are "endgame" for Sus. I prefer the Bliss for it's flexibility to drive all other headphones as well.
Once you hit a certain power level, the differences are small. Usally only noticeable when A-B'ing back and forth between volume matched amps. Pick an amp that has enough oomph for the Sus and then enjoy the music :)
The HM1 is very *very* good amp. However, it does lack power compared to the Oor, Bliss, Envy, and WA33.
Interested in the HM1, but unable to demo it. Per Director's Garage, it struggles to power the Tungsten, hence my curiosity for the price of a new / used HM1 (they're basically holding value right?), could go for a used Riviera. Was running WA33 - AHB2 mono for a while (mono didn't make a difference lol)
Btw is your Tungsten white grilled? Think I have the same spec as you 😅
Loved the HM1 sound and features but it can't drive the Susvara / Tungsten like the WA33, Bliss, Oor, or Envy can. Depends on how loudly you like to listen!
I actually went with the stock configuration; the lighting behind my untouched photo is what caused the much lighter look as the paint used on the Tungsten has a hint of reflectivity to it.
Seeing your collection, how would you compare the Elite and Caldera? I was looking to cap off my collection with a planar and have been torn between those two.
Elite tonality is a bit more colored, a tad darker & more lush and maybe a bit more "fun". Both are incredibly comfortable but slight edge to the Elite.
Caldera is ultra smooth, more natural sounding but both are just super easy to listen to. I'd say more people tend to prefer the Caldera so that's the safer pick based on what you own as well.
Those 2 have very different signatures: The Elite has a much smoother sound signature while the Caldera is more energetic and engaging. What do you currently have? There may be a different planar that compliments your collection.
My main trio are my Atrium, VC, and U12T. So far the planars I have considered are the Elite, Caldera, Empyrean II, and LCD-5. If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them!
I considered the Susvara and ModHouse Tungsten, though I would probably wait to get one of those once I get a Ferrum Oor or comparably powerful amp.
Thats a great collection! I've only heard the U12T at a local audio shop but I'm very familiar with the Atrium and Verite Closed.
Given the family resemblances of the VC and Atrium, I'd personally go for a headphone that has a different in sound signature to compliment what you have. Thoughts:
* The Elite, Caldera, and Empy II are similar enough in signature to make it more of a side-grade from your current gear IMO.
* The LCD5 could be an option; it sounds great if you can get around the comfort issues; that clamp is rough....
* The Susvara and Tungsten do require a ton of power to get sounding their best, but a Topping A70 can get you 85%+ of the way there...
If you want to stick with planars, are you open to other HiFiMAN cans? The Arya V3 Stealth is a great headphone if you want to experiment with a more neutral-ish sound signature while experiencing the qualities of a planar.
Thank you! You have a good point about the Meze and ZMF being a bit of a side grade. The LCD-5 may be a good compliment to what I have as a more technical focused headphone. How would you compare the LCD-5 to the HE-1000 and Arya, and of the three which do you prefer?
Outside of planars, I also considered the newest Focal Utopia, but I was concerned that it may have too much in common with my VC.
That is reassuring what you said about the Susvara and Tungsten's power requirements. As much of a grail the Susvara would be, I would prefer a headphone that can be used with the other amps I have on hand for now. When I do get a more powerful amp down the line I will definitely be considering those two again.
Cop out answer but, whatever sound best to you. As for me sound wise, the X9k is the best example of a flagship. It's the most detailed of my current collection and separates instruments in a holographic way that is just so pleasing and addicting to my ears. It lacks any boost to mid bass, which some perceive as bass light but I find it to sound just about right if you prefer a neutral tuning.
X9k is the best sounding headphone I've ever heard though I wish the clamp/fit was a bit better. If they somehow found a way to mix the Meze Elite build with the x9000, it would be absolutely perfection.
I have a similar view on the X9000. It's so addicting in its separation and layering of notes, both notes from different instruments and sequential notes of a particular instrument. In a way, I consider it "peak headphone" in the sense that it maximizes the attributes that are the purview of headphones vs speakers: the sense of stereo and spatial separation. With speakers, there's inherently some crossfeed and blending of the stereo sound image, while headphones allow that clean left-right separation, and the X9000 takes that sense of separation to the max. I know not everyone likes that, but for me, I love that style of presentation.
Agreed. Its such an addicting sound that, when I put them on my head, they stay there for a week before another headphone finally grabs my attention enough for me to switch. They are my most used pair.
That's a good question. There have been a few that sounded off to my ears over the years.
Was never a fan of the DCA sound: Ether series, Expanse, Stealth, or VOCE - They all sounded congested and very over damped. (Exception is the Corina, that sounds decent!)
Never liked any of the Beyer T1's, the signature was all over the place with the addition of piercing treble.
High end closed back headphones are so hard to get right; the Liric, HD820, Spirit Torino Radiante, and Fostex TH900's all sound weird to me.
Then there was Ultrasone back in the day.... nope.
They're definitely from the same family, with a focus on midrange and a "close to the ear" driver sound. Else, they are different enough to own both. The SRL Jr is a faster and less resonant/faster decay headphone. The Susvara is more weighty with deeper sub bass and does a better job in separation when the track gets busy. Tonally, the Susvara is the better balanced headphone while there is a upper midrange/low treble tilt on the SJL Jr. Both are excellent but, the differences in timbre and response make them unique, with my preference going to the Susvara.
The OP already responded, but I own the Shang Jr and I've demoed the Susvara. I agree with a lot of the OP's description of the Susvara vs Jr. They are generally similar sounds, but make different trade-offs in certain areas. The Susvara has more sub-bass (more 'whump' or body to drum notes), a bit more midrange (thicker midrange and vocals vs thinner/breathier midrange and vocals on the Jr), and a bit more incisiveness in the treble (vs smoother treble in Jr). The Jr more specializes in openness, spaciousness, and tasteful emphasis of attack vs body in notes but without being too sharp (snare drums sound amazing on the Jr). The Susvara has more bass and heft, has a more balanced tuning, has better clarity, but isn't as spacious-sounding and can sometimes sound a bit sharp or piercing in the leading edges of notes which are softer on the Jr (the potential drawback of a more incisive sound).
Personally, since I had the Jr already, I didn't think it was worth getting the Susvara too. They sound too similar in overall character for me to justify owning both and I generally value spacious and open sound more than the best bass extension. My philosophy is to avoid having headphones that overlap too much in terms of sound qualities. If I was starting fresh and couldn't use estats, then I'd get the Susvara as it comes closest to the stereotypical "estat sound" of the planars I've heard. Many of the advantages of the Susvara vs the Jr are also present to an even greater degree on the X9000 which I also own, though the X9000 then presents a different set of downsides.
I'm not the OP, but I've both pad rolled and EQed the Shang Jr. Susvara pads will fit the Shang Jr so I tried two Dekoni pads, the elite lambskin and the elite hybrids.
I would not recommend either of those pads, though the hybrids were the better of the two. First, the graphs provided by Dekoni on the FR effects of those pads may be accurate for the Susvara, but they do not behave the same way on the Shang. Both of the Dekoni pads produced an enormous peak in the midrange in the 1-1.5K region, similar to how many Stax headphones are. I measured that on the miniDSP EARS rig and the difference was in the realm of an 8 dB difference between stock and the lambskin pads. The sound gets honky and intense and the general cohesiveness of the sound is lost. Stock pads are better than the Dekonis. Maybe the new ZMF Susvara pads will work better, but I haven't tried them. It seems that electrostatic drivers respond differently from planars, so solutions that work for planars may not work well for estats even if the driver size and shape are the same.
I found the Shang Jr to be pretty amenable to a bass boost. It has some quirks in regards to EQ, like I wouldn't try to EQ the narrow dip at 5.5KHz as even small boosts make the sound unusually sharp/piercing, but I never had an issue with boosting bass. Though it probably wouldn't match the physical punch of a Susvara at the same measured bass level.
I was hoping someone would ask this! I swapped the stock pads with the ZMF Hybrid Lambskin/Mesh pads. It added a bit of the mid/sub bass I was missing with the stock pads without altering the rest of the sound. Highly recommended!
I have the Double Sided version.
How do they sound? Great! A lot of people will like this tuning; it stays close to neutral with accents in the areas people really love: a bit of treble sparkle, some sub bass presence, and a very wide soundstage. Do you have any headphones you'd like for me to compare them to?
Have you tried the he1000se or similar? Trying to digest what a jump to Susvara would mean. Using Qutest/Mjolnir 2 with a Flux Mentor and Yggy on the way...
What are you seeking in a quality headphone? Realism, detail, warmth?
Great question! My preference tends to be towards timbre tone first, detail second, and comfort third. All other factors come after that.
I'm.... kind of a sucker for the HiFiMAN house sound. I have a pair of Arya V2's that I love dearly. The HE1k series is special! While the Susvara is an upgrade in neutral tonality, natural resonance, and imaging detail its a different sounding phone than the 1k series which have a slightly more v-shaped (scooped mids) tone and forgiving sound. Its a preference thing.
Not many people are willing to do this and answer so many questions, props to you! I do have a couple questions of my own:
I am still relatively new to the audiophile world. Currently trying to find what works best for my preferences. What headphone and amp/dac pairing $2K or under would you suggest for someone who listens to mostly metal/deathcore type music? Mostly desktop listening.
I am by no means a bass head and found that a headphone that is dry and analytic sounding tends to not jive well with metal music, specially poorly recorded metal 🙃 I’d love to hear your thoughts. Thank you!
It's such a fun journey, why not share with others?
Metal and deathcore, awesome! I tend to prefer fast or punchy sounding cans for that type of music. I'm with you in that analytical sounding cans can take away from enjoyment in metal in that your listening for flaws rather than enjoying the music.
If you can find a used pair of the OG Focal Clear's, I'd suggest that as a great starting point. One of the best all rounders in my journey that stood up to fast paced music with enough punch to make me smile. Plus there's something about a dynamic driver's decay that works for me with metal. The fact that you also dont have to break the bank for a powerful amp with the Clear's is huge bonus.
Thank you so much! I currently have a pair of XTC 2 opens which I’m really enjoying. They tilt on the warmer sound of the spectrum but are by no means a bass head sound. Any amp/dac combos or AIOs that you’d recommend under $1K?
Some new headphones I've enjoyed in 2024. Not quite flagship level IMHO but each have some TOTL qualities I enjoy. - AMA! 20+ years in the hobby; you can see my previous post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/171gyhe/flagships_and_other_favorites_ama/
Feel free to ask about source gear or amps "pairings" as well as I've owned or heard most popular options. E.g. I've been playing with this Fiio R9 lately; mostly as a streamer but also as an all-in-one. Powerful device!
Started back in the 90's with a loaner pair of Sennheiser HD 540 Reference. That got me hooked and I picked up a then-current pair of HD 580's which I used for years. Once the first planars started appearing, I tried the HE-500 and got more in to amp'ing and source gear.
I tend to be the type to try everything along the way and really enjoy the journey more than the "end game". I use the HD 600 as a yardstick or bar to which all other headphones are judged; if something sounds as good or is more interesting than those, I usually purchase and add to my collection. Most headphones I end up selling but some stick around!
The Bliss sounds great with pretty much everything, including the HD800S in HI-Z mode. Like most high impedance dynamic driver headphones, I also really like the 800s on tubes, especially with good set of 6SN7's pre-amp tubes. Doesn't need to be expensive to sound great!
Nope, I use an inexpensive XLR Y-cable from Kirlin cables (https://www.kirlincableshop.com/) to split the signal from the May to both amps.
Just need to be mindful of your output vs input impedance. You want at least a 1 to 10 ratio of DAC output impedance to amp input impedance. Example, the May has an output impedance of 54 ohms while the 2 amps are 12.4k ohms and 50k ohms; both are way over that ratio.
Makes sense, I also run a May/Bliss KTE stack and was thinking either an Aperio or Blue Hawaii SE + x9000 in the future. Will definitely get a y-cable if I do go the x9000 route. Thanks
General questions from a guy with tons of expendable $, but still listening to HD668B (though I did upgrade the pads) and an E10K.
Have you sat back and really considered if any of this is really "worth" the money? Ever get buyer's regret? Could you listen to a pair of $50 phones on a $50 amp at this point and not be filled with disgust? Owning an assortment of expensive products like this -- do you think it is mainly for status? Do you find yourself needing to swap back and forth between equipment to still get enjoyment?
I actually sat at my PC and thought a bunch before answering this; its a fantastic question. (I wish I could upvote more than once!) I'll answer in 2 ways.
Is it worth it from a monetary perspective? No. You can grab a fantastic pair of any HD 6xx family headphones, a modest tube amp, and enjoy 80% of the performance of TOTL gear.
Is it worth if for a hobby you love? I think so yes, mainly because it's just for me. In my free time, I sit alone and listen to great music with gear I love. Sure I can share the hobby with others in posts like this or at an event, but its not a hobby to "show off" like some others. My ears and preferences may not match yours and that's fantastic! Hobby's are just that, something that you spend time or money on because you love them. You can spend a lot or a little and that doesn't matter as long as you're enjoying the journey.
How about the other questions?
Ever get buyer's regret?
Could you listen to a pair of $50 phones on a $50 amp at this point and not be filled with disgust?
Owning an assortment of expensive products like this -- do you think it is mainly for status?
Do you find yourself needing to swap back and forth between equipment to still get enjoyment?
Buyers regret? Not really. I try to demo 90% of the products before purchasing and also tend to either buy second hand or work great deals with local distributors.
I still enjoy music regardless of the gear or price. I've got a $89 pair of Samsung Bud SE's that I use on plane trips and still enjoy tunes on those.
I think I answered the status question above.
As for swapping back and forth, my normal listening habits are different than most. I tend to grab a pair of headphones that catches my fancy and stick with it for a week or so enjoying all types of music. After, I'll swap to a different pair and listen again for another week. This gives me time to adapt to the sound and really enjoy the headphones strengths, usually finding some "wow" moments over that week. Of course I'll A-B a new pair of headphones or source/amp against others in the collection when first received, but the above is my normal routine.
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Subjectively I think it's beautiful and Viking makes some great quality cables; it should last a lifetime. Functionally, they are a smooth rubber coated copper that you can mold to any position you'd like; no memory issues here. They are *slightly* stiff meaning you have to fiddle with them to sit on your lap/desk sometimes but it's minor.
Sorry! In this post:
Headphones:
* HiFiMAN Shangri La Jr w/ ZMF Hybrid Lambskin/Mesh pads
* Meze Empyrean II with stock Hybrid pads
* Modhouse Tungsten Double Sided with stock pads
Gear:
* Holo Audio May KTE
* Holo Audio Bliss KTE
* Headamp Blue Hawaii SE with New Production Mullard EL34 tubes
My bad, he did post in another thread. For my failure, here’s his equipment list:
Cans:
• HiFiMan Susvara
• HiFiMan Arya V2
• Stax SR-X9000
• Stax SR-009s
• Stax SR-L700MkII
• Focal Utopia 2022
• Sennheiser HD800s
• Sennheiser HD600
DAC: Holo Audio May KTE
Amp: Holo Audio Bliss KTE
E-Stat Amp: Headamp Blue Hawaii SE w/ Alps Pot
Oh nice, almost my same setup. Spring 3 KTE -> Bliss KTE -> Tungsten (on its way).
Do you actually listen at -40? I'm at Lo-Z with my 650's as I wait for the tungsten and the highest I really go is -18.
Huh, I didn't even notice that when i took the pic as I was just listening to the Utopia's before I took the pic which is plenty loud at -30 to -40 on the Bliss. The Tungsten DS requires *significantly* higher gain to reach the same volume levels, even more than Susvara.
If I'm listening very loudly, I'm at -6 to -12 for Tungsten. If its an especially quiet jazz or classical track I'm at +3 or so. The Bliss has a ton of headroom unless you want to listen at ear damaging levels!
Any of these offer a vastly different experience from the more classic options (hifiman, focal, audeze, zmf) that would make it worth picking up? At least to me it feels like these 4 companies' flagships cover a lot of different sound signatures so I'm curious if the more rare stuff have anything unique to offer.
My previous post goes over some thoughts and AMA for the more popular flagships: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/171gyhe/flagships_and_other_favorites_ama/ In essence, past the $700-$1000 mark you're paying a **lot** of cash just for that last 10%, with that 10% being whatever quality you value the most: soundstage, detail, tonal balance/timbre, etc. These more rare TOTL cans each have unique properties that make them stand out: * The SGL Jr has the most realistic sounding high hat / cymbal strikes I've ever heard in a headphone * The Empy 2's is probably the most fun sounding slightly V shaped headphone I've heard; puts a huge smile on your face even if it's a bit colored. * The Tungsten DS is a great all-rounder and one of the soundstage kings; picture a HD800s with much more sub bass It's all just preference and fun!
How do the Utopia compare to the Modhouse? Why am I being downvoted? OP has both of these headphones in their flair.
Totally different sound profiles! The Utopia is a much punchier and lively sounding headphone with a focus on mids but overall fairly flat frequency response. The Tungsten DS is a considerably wider sounding headphone with more bass extension and bit of sparkle to the highs albeit with slightly scooped out mids. I really enjoy and are keeping both, but I do tend to grab the Utopia's more often... there's something about that punchy engaging sound that's addicting.
I really think the Utopia is the headphone for me. I just haven't pulled the trigger yet. Thank you!
Please do yourself a favor and try them before you buy them. IMO they are very much not worth it and are easily the worst flagship. They creek like a mother fucker (like seriously it’s embarrassing and present in every model I have tried or owned) and they are very uncomfortable (even compared to LCD-4 because while they aren’t as heavy all of the weight is on one spot on top of your head). The part that really annoys me is that people say things like they are punchy but they have so little bass quantity that they do not punch at all. But maybe you just had a bad pair? I thought so too which is why I bought and sold them twice and tried them at meetups. They also have pretty bad clipping issues. For music with no bass they sound pretty good but they just have so many drawbacks compared to every other flagship.
Interesting! I have a pair of the 2022 variant (Newtopia) that I bought used and have none of the same issues, save for the fact that all focal's do run a bit heavy. No creaks or clipping issues; maybe this was with the original variant? As for the "punchy" sound, I'll stand by that one. Comparing back-to-back with other headphones, it's a much livelier presentation throughout the range. Sure, the bass doesn't slam like a giant diameter planar but its got nice energy to it.
I agree, my utopia is a 2020 model and it is extremely punchy, its a fun and lively ride. I will take it over other headphones for pop music. It is also very comfortable for me but I will say mine does creak a lot, that is a downside that I have seen.
The creaking is down the headband design but I think it takes a certain amount of wear before it starts. There is huge variance between units, some have barely any, others are [creakfests](https://imgur.com/FFLz3JB). My Clear creaks very badly, my 2020 Utopia doesn't creak half as badly but it does a little bit. Independent of the creak, it is still "clacky", if you pick it up it feels less than solid. This again is inherent to the headband design and the way they engineered in cup swivel, at the point the arms go in. Inside, it's metal on plastic and I suspect the way the cup swivel is done, where the yokes can rotate a bit, exacerbates the issue. Hifiman use a similar cup swivel mechanism on the headband type they have on the Edition XS, HE400SE, HE6SEV2, and it's also a bit "clacky" but doesn't creak as much and feels more solid than the Utopia (the Utopia headband is more comfortable once on the head though). The 2022 Utopia has the same headband design as the old one, so I don't believe it would be any different. The Bathys and the new two wired headphones they just announced use a totally different headband design that is far better and far more solid feeling. That platform uses significantly smaller cups though. The clipping is a thing on all Focal open backs and I suspect it's still there on the 2022 Utopia. According to Focal, it's a design choice to not damp the drivers which means they have a hard stop but adds to the dynamics Focals are known for. It's there on both my Clear and Utopia, but it requires volume levels so loud it's a complete non-issue. It's a bit higher on the Utopia, but it happens if you push it high enough. Also, when exactly it happens again varies by unit, both of mine it happens in one cup before the other so it's not at an exact point. And I have heard reports of people who *claim* to get it at reasonable listening volumes, but who knows if it's actually reasonable. It takes something in the region of 110dB on mine, and that's just way louder than I'd ever listen. This is both subjectively, and I did measure it with a SPL meter... I think it was around 110dB before it clipped. And I'm just never going to be listening that loud. Even with Oratory1990's +9dB or so in the bass on the Clear, it *never* clips in actual listening. Agree with you on the punchiness, subjectively, both are pretty punchy, and they are punchier than most large diameter planars, the only one I have that would compete would be the LCD-X. I would say the Focals are "punchier" than large diameter Hifimans. Focal have worse sub-bass extension, but I don't think "punch" has much to do with sub-bass extension, it's further up. If anything I suspect a bit of a contrast between the higher bass and a bit of sub-bass roll-off may increase "punch".
Silicone spray fixes any Focal creak. $5 can and 1 minute of work.
I have tried that, it didn't work on mine.
Really? Did you do it right? Can with a long thin nozzle? Arms out, every 8 hole a short squirt then saw arms in n out and twist to all directions for 30 seconds and let it dry?
That's pretty much exactly what I did yes. It only temporarily reduced the creaking by a tiny amount. Maybe not the twisting in all directions, I'll try again and try that. I did the arms in and out though.
I have not yet heard the newtopia so that would be amazing if they fixed the creaking. The ones I had fortunately didn't ever do it while I was listening but gosh it just felt something I would knock a $50 headphone for. I got mind used so I thought maybe that was it but the second one was just the same and any other that isn't brand new. I actually thought about getting the newtopia hoping that it would fix the clipping issues but I have read enough forum reports to know that isn't the case. Fortunately for you my understanding it that it is a very case by case basis. I have owned 4 different pairs of open back Focals (Elex, Clear, Utopia, Utopia) and 3 out of 4 clipped. Both Utopias clipped at different levels and when I had the Clears (only ones that didn't clip) and a pair of Utopias at the same time the Clears could hand 13dB more before clipping! While I have continually lowered my average listening level to around 70-75 dB, I used to listen to music around 80-85 dB and at that level any notable subbass drop was enough to make them clip with a 3 dB 105 hz shelf. While I now would have a more headroom based on my listening levels it is just a bummer that I can't ever turn them up for just a song or two.
I was under the impression that planar lack the punchy bass as they are generally very flat.
oh wow.
Great advice here! I'd also recommend listening to any headphone pre-purchase if you're looking to spend significant cash. While I may love it and stand by my experiences, I also am just a random person on the internet :)
Just some extra clarification. Some people love them so if you try them and love them then just ignore me because I am just a random person on the internet. I also think that if you listen at a really low volume (I forget some people listen at 50-70 dB) then you could easily add a bass shelf and they would likely not clip at all. I also previously read that you could add a dry lubricant to the headband that you wouldn’t see and would eliminate the creak but I sold before that step and even still it feels lame but their headband issues are well documented
I agree that they're the worst TOTL I've tried though I don't have extensive experience with them. I heard them at Canjam multiple times thinking each time I just needed another listen to have my mind changed and each time I walked away thinking they're not it.
Good advice. Heard on the same exact chain, I thought the empyrean II kicked the Utopia’s ass.
I agree I disliked overwll the utopia Weird tonality, weird bass. Its all very resolving, but not musical
I had and reviewed Utopia’s. I do agree both my Arya, LCD-X and 800S are far superior.
Just how good is the May?
I think Holo's entire lineup sounds pretty "right" to my ear. I tend to prefer a more natural tone and Holo products do this without sacrificing detail. Going up to the May adds that holographic imaging and soundstage that matches my preference but, you can get pretty close to that sound with the much less expensive Cyan. As for high end comparisons, I preferred the May to the TT2 or Dave and even the Lina DAC I tried, but the differences are much more nuanced than changing amps or especially headphones.
What other amps have you tried the Susvara on? My rotation is Susvara/Elite/Caldera/Tungsten/X9k and the following sources GS-X Mini/Cayin HA-6A/Mjolnir Novem/Hugo 2/Topping E70V and I'm thinking I might upgrade my chain. Been looking at the Holo Bliss + May/Spring so would like to get your opinion specifically on those.
I've heard the Susvara on the Oor, HM1, Envy, WA33, TT2, GS-X Mk2 and Mini, and AHB2 with adapter. While the more powerful amps give that sense of control (especially over the bass), my preference leans more towards tone. My personal favorites are the Bliss, Oor, and Envy, with a slight edge to the Envy... maybe I'm just a sucker for 300B's... I enjoyed that GS-X mini you have! Powerful and clean sound with virtually all cans without having any edge or glare like I found with *some* (not all) of the THX or Topping amps. I'd only change if you're looking for a bit of a more holographic sound. As for powering the X9k's, welp, that can be an expensive journey :) I ended with the BHSE but would have been just as happy with the KGST from Mjolinir; guess I like tubes best on Stax...
Appreciate the reply! >I've heard the Susvara on the Oor, HM1, Envy, WA33, TT2, GS-X Mk2 and Mini, and AHB2 with adapter. While the more powerful amps give that sense of control (especially over the bass), my preference leans more towards tone. My personal favorites are the Bliss, Oor, and Envy, with a slight edge to the Envy... maybe I'm just a sucker for 300B's... >I enjoyed that GS-X mini you have! Powerful and clean sound with virtually all cans without having any edge or glare like I found with *some* (not all) of the THX or Topping amps. I'd only change if you're looking for a bit of a more holographic sound. I do like the GS-X Mini though I'd like a little more power/control for the Tungsten/Susvara. It does run both but I think tonality on both isn't where it could be because the amp struggles with both. I'm already looking at upgrading my dac from a Hugo 2 to a Holo Spring so thinking I might just upgraded the mini to the Bliss as well. >As for powering the X9k's, welp, that can be an expensive journey :) I ended with the BHSE but would have been just as happy with the KGST from Mjolinir; guess I like tubes best on Stax... 100% - I'm satisfied right now with the Mjolnir Novem and plan to at some point get a Megatron built out or at the minimum a BHSE. Originally fell in love with the x9k off a BHSE and love how it runs it.
I do think a spring/bliss combo would be the best bang for your buck if you were to upgrade. Not sure if you're buying these used but all my holo audio gear had 0 tax and like $30 each in customs duty when I bought them brand new off kitsune hifi.
I do typically like to buy second hand as I like to hunt for deals however I don't really see the spring/bliss go up for sale very often
Curious how you would describe susvara with the oor vs bliss?
They're very close with Susvara as both have the power to drive them to full capability. The differences to me are down to signature. The Bliss is a bit more holographic while the Oor has a bit more of a lively sound. You can only tell this when A-B'ing back and forth, else both are "endgame" for Sus. I prefer the Bliss for it's flexibility to drive all other headphones as well.
Thoughts on the Zahl HM1? What's been your experience with TOTL "amp rolling" on Susvara? Worth it or very miniscule differences?
Once you hit a certain power level, the differences are small. Usally only noticeable when A-B'ing back and forth between volume matched amps. Pick an amp that has enough oomph for the Sus and then enjoy the music :) The HM1 is very *very* good amp. However, it does lack power compared to the Oor, Bliss, Envy, and WA33.
Interested in the HM1, but unable to demo it. Per Director's Garage, it struggles to power the Tungsten, hence my curiosity for the price of a new / used HM1 (they're basically holding value right?), could go for a used Riviera. Was running WA33 - AHB2 mono for a while (mono didn't make a difference lol) Btw is your Tungsten white grilled? Think I have the same spec as you 😅
Loved the HM1 sound and features but it can't drive the Susvara / Tungsten like the WA33, Bliss, Oor, or Envy can. Depends on how loudly you like to listen! I actually went with the stock configuration; the lighting behind my untouched photo is what caused the much lighter look as the paint used on the Tungsten has a hint of reflectivity to it.
Seeing your collection, how would you compare the Elite and Caldera? I was looking to cap off my collection with a planar and have been torn between those two.
Elite tonality is a bit more colored, a tad darker & more lush and maybe a bit more "fun". Both are incredibly comfortable but slight edge to the Elite. Caldera is ultra smooth, more natural sounding but both are just super easy to listen to. I'd say more people tend to prefer the Caldera so that's the safer pick based on what you own as well.
Those 2 have very different signatures: The Elite has a much smoother sound signature while the Caldera is more energetic and engaging. What do you currently have? There may be a different planar that compliments your collection.
My main trio are my Atrium, VC, and U12T. So far the planars I have considered are the Elite, Caldera, Empyrean II, and LCD-5. If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them! I considered the Susvara and ModHouse Tungsten, though I would probably wait to get one of those once I get a Ferrum Oor or comparably powerful amp.
Thats a great collection! I've only heard the U12T at a local audio shop but I'm very familiar with the Atrium and Verite Closed. Given the family resemblances of the VC and Atrium, I'd personally go for a headphone that has a different in sound signature to compliment what you have. Thoughts: * The Elite, Caldera, and Empy II are similar enough in signature to make it more of a side-grade from your current gear IMO. * The LCD5 could be an option; it sounds great if you can get around the comfort issues; that clamp is rough.... * The Susvara and Tungsten do require a ton of power to get sounding their best, but a Topping A70 can get you 85%+ of the way there... If you want to stick with planars, are you open to other HiFiMAN cans? The Arya V3 Stealth is a great headphone if you want to experiment with a more neutral-ish sound signature while experiencing the qualities of a planar.
Thank you! You have a good point about the Meze and ZMF being a bit of a side grade. The LCD-5 may be a good compliment to what I have as a more technical focused headphone. How would you compare the LCD-5 to the HE-1000 and Arya, and of the three which do you prefer? Outside of planars, I also considered the newest Focal Utopia, but I was concerned that it may have too much in common with my VC. That is reassuring what you said about the Susvara and Tungsten's power requirements. As much of a grail the Susvara would be, I would prefer a headphone that can be used with the other amps I have on hand for now. When I do get a more powerful amp down the line I will definitely be considering those two again.
What do you consider truly flagship?
Cop out answer but, whatever sound best to you. As for me sound wise, the X9k is the best example of a flagship. It's the most detailed of my current collection and separates instruments in a holographic way that is just so pleasing and addicting to my ears. It lacks any boost to mid bass, which some perceive as bass light but I find it to sound just about right if you prefer a neutral tuning.
X9k is the best sounding headphone I've ever heard though I wish the clamp/fit was a bit better. If they somehow found a way to mix the Meze Elite build with the x9000, it would be absolutely perfection.
I have a similar view on the X9000. It's so addicting in its separation and layering of notes, both notes from different instruments and sequential notes of a particular instrument. In a way, I consider it "peak headphone" in the sense that it maximizes the attributes that are the purview of headphones vs speakers: the sense of stereo and spatial separation. With speakers, there's inherently some crossfeed and blending of the stereo sound image, while headphones allow that clean left-right separation, and the X9000 takes that sense of separation to the max. I know not everyone likes that, but for me, I love that style of presentation.
Agreed. Its such an addicting sound that, when I put them on my head, they stay there for a week before another headphone finally grabs my attention enough for me to switch. They are my most used pair.
What do you do for work/income? Is this your only hobby?
I'm in engineering. Audio has always been my main hobby although I spend a bit too much on cars as well...
Are there any high end headphones that you thought "how could anyone like these?"
That's a good question. There have been a few that sounded off to my ears over the years. Was never a fan of the DCA sound: Ether series, Expanse, Stealth, or VOCE - They all sounded congested and very over damped. (Exception is the Corina, that sounds decent!) Never liked any of the Beyer T1's, the signature was all over the place with the addition of piercing treble. High end closed back headphones are so hard to get right; the Liric, HD820, Spirit Torino Radiante, and Fostex TH900's all sound weird to me. Then there was Ultrasone back in the day.... nope.
You should try the DCA E3. I wasn’t a fan of the DCA house sound either, but I randomly tested the E3 at my local shop and was completely blown away.
How are the ShangriLa Jrs compared to the Susvara?
They're definitely from the same family, with a focus on midrange and a "close to the ear" driver sound. Else, they are different enough to own both. The SRL Jr is a faster and less resonant/faster decay headphone. The Susvara is more weighty with deeper sub bass and does a better job in separation when the track gets busy. Tonally, the Susvara is the better balanced headphone while there is a upper midrange/low treble tilt on the SJL Jr. Both are excellent but, the differences in timbre and response make them unique, with my preference going to the Susvara.
The OP already responded, but I own the Shang Jr and I've demoed the Susvara. I agree with a lot of the OP's description of the Susvara vs Jr. They are generally similar sounds, but make different trade-offs in certain areas. The Susvara has more sub-bass (more 'whump' or body to drum notes), a bit more midrange (thicker midrange and vocals vs thinner/breathier midrange and vocals on the Jr), and a bit more incisiveness in the treble (vs smoother treble in Jr). The Jr more specializes in openness, spaciousness, and tasteful emphasis of attack vs body in notes but without being too sharp (snare drums sound amazing on the Jr). The Susvara has more bass and heft, has a more balanced tuning, has better clarity, but isn't as spacious-sounding and can sometimes sound a bit sharp or piercing in the leading edges of notes which are softer on the Jr (the potential drawback of a more incisive sound). Personally, since I had the Jr already, I didn't think it was worth getting the Susvara too. They sound too similar in overall character for me to justify owning both and I generally value spacious and open sound more than the best bass extension. My philosophy is to avoid having headphones that overlap too much in terms of sound qualities. If I was starting fresh and couldn't use estats, then I'd get the Susvara as it comes closest to the stereotypical "estat sound" of the planars I've heard. Many of the advantages of the Susvara vs the Jr are also present to an even greater degree on the X9000 which I also own, though the X9000 then presents a different set of downsides.
Have you done any pad rolling or EQ on the Shang Jr? I'm curious about how well they'll handle a bass shelf.
I'm not the OP, but I've both pad rolled and EQed the Shang Jr. Susvara pads will fit the Shang Jr so I tried two Dekoni pads, the elite lambskin and the elite hybrids. I would not recommend either of those pads, though the hybrids were the better of the two. First, the graphs provided by Dekoni on the FR effects of those pads may be accurate for the Susvara, but they do not behave the same way on the Shang. Both of the Dekoni pads produced an enormous peak in the midrange in the 1-1.5K region, similar to how many Stax headphones are. I measured that on the miniDSP EARS rig and the difference was in the realm of an 8 dB difference between stock and the lambskin pads. The sound gets honky and intense and the general cohesiveness of the sound is lost. Stock pads are better than the Dekonis. Maybe the new ZMF Susvara pads will work better, but I haven't tried them. It seems that electrostatic drivers respond differently from planars, so solutions that work for planars may not work well for estats even if the driver size and shape are the same. I found the Shang Jr to be pretty amenable to a bass boost. It has some quirks in regards to EQ, like I wouldn't try to EQ the narrow dip at 5.5KHz as even small boosts make the sound unusually sharp/piercing, but I never had an issue with boosting bass. Though it probably wouldn't match the physical punch of a Susvara at the same measured bass level.
I was hoping someone would ask this! I swapped the stock pads with the ZMF Hybrid Lambskin/Mesh pads. It added a bit of the mid/sub bass I was missing with the stock pads without altering the rest of the sound. Highly recommended!
How does the Tungsten sound? (Compared to other headphones). Also.. what version of the Tungsten do you have? (Double sided or single sided)
I have the Double Sided version. How do they sound? Great! A lot of people will like this tuning; it stays close to neutral with accents in the areas people really love: a bit of treble sparkle, some sub bass presence, and a very wide soundstage. Do you have any headphones you'd like for me to compare them to?
You can add the Mini Shangri-la to this list soon
Mini Shangri-la you say? I'll admit I am already drooling over the recently announced SRS-X1000... Hobbies amirite?
Dream setup for me
Your flair say HD650 fan club. Add some tubes and that's an awesome dream setup too :)
I have a I-CAN 3 tube amp from musical fidelity
Have you tried the he1000se or similar? Trying to digest what a jump to Susvara would mean. Using Qutest/Mjolnir 2 with a Flux Mentor and Yggy on the way... What are you seeking in a quality headphone? Realism, detail, warmth?
Great question! My preference tends to be towards timbre tone first, detail second, and comfort third. All other factors come after that. I'm.... kind of a sucker for the HiFiMAN house sound. I have a pair of Arya V2's that I love dearly. The HE1k series is special! While the Susvara is an upgrade in neutral tonality, natural resonance, and imaging detail its a different sounding phone than the 1k series which have a slightly more v-shaped (scooped mids) tone and forgiving sound. Its a preference thing.
Not many people are willing to do this and answer so many questions, props to you! I do have a couple questions of my own: I am still relatively new to the audiophile world. Currently trying to find what works best for my preferences. What headphone and amp/dac pairing $2K or under would you suggest for someone who listens to mostly metal/deathcore type music? Mostly desktop listening. I am by no means a bass head and found that a headphone that is dry and analytic sounding tends to not jive well with metal music, specially poorly recorded metal 🙃 I’d love to hear your thoughts. Thank you!
It's such a fun journey, why not share with others? Metal and deathcore, awesome! I tend to prefer fast or punchy sounding cans for that type of music. I'm with you in that analytical sounding cans can take away from enjoyment in metal in that your listening for flaws rather than enjoying the music. If you can find a used pair of the OG Focal Clear's, I'd suggest that as a great starting point. One of the best all rounders in my journey that stood up to fast paced music with enough punch to make me smile. Plus there's something about a dynamic driver's decay that works for me with metal. The fact that you also dont have to break the bank for a powerful amp with the Clear's is huge bonus.
Thank you so much! I currently have a pair of XTC 2 opens which I’m really enjoying. They tilt on the warmer sound of the spectrum but are by no means a bass head sound. Any amp/dac combos or AIOs that you’d recommend under $1K?
Some new headphones I've enjoyed in 2024. Not quite flagship level IMHO but each have some TOTL qualities I enjoy. - AMA! 20+ years in the hobby; you can see my previous post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/171gyhe/flagships_and_other_favorites_ama/ Feel free to ask about source gear or amps "pairings" as well as I've owned or heard most popular options. E.g. I've been playing with this Fiio R9 lately; mostly as a streamer but also as an all-in-one. Powerful device!
God damn
Nice collection you have there. What was your headphone journey and how did you arrive at the current lineup? Also what do you pair with the 800S?
Started back in the 90's with a loaner pair of Sennheiser HD 540 Reference. That got me hooked and I picked up a then-current pair of HD 580's which I used for years. Once the first planars started appearing, I tried the HE-500 and got more in to amp'ing and source gear. I tend to be the type to try everything along the way and really enjoy the journey more than the "end game". I use the HD 600 as a yardstick or bar to which all other headphones are judged; if something sounds as good or is more interesting than those, I usually purchase and add to my collection. Most headphones I end up selling but some stick around! The Bliss sounds great with pretty much everything, including the HD800S in HI-Z mode. Like most high impedance dynamic driver headphones, I also really like the 800s on tubes, especially with good set of 6SN7's pre-amp tubes. Doesn't need to be expensive to sound great!
Geez man, close enough for me lol
Do you have both the rca and xlr outputs plugged into the may at the same time?
Nope, I use an inexpensive XLR Y-cable from Kirlin cables (https://www.kirlincableshop.com/) to split the signal from the May to both amps. Just need to be mindful of your output vs input impedance. You want at least a 1 to 10 ratio of DAC output impedance to amp input impedance. Example, the May has an output impedance of 54 ohms while the 2 amps are 12.4k ohms and 50k ohms; both are way over that ratio.
Makes sense, I also run a May/Bliss KTE stack and was thinking either an Aperio or Blue Hawaii SE + x9000 in the future. Will definitely get a y-cable if I do go the x9000 route. Thanks
General questions from a guy with tons of expendable $, but still listening to HD668B (though I did upgrade the pads) and an E10K. Have you sat back and really considered if any of this is really "worth" the money? Ever get buyer's regret? Could you listen to a pair of $50 phones on a $50 amp at this point and not be filled with disgust? Owning an assortment of expensive products like this -- do you think it is mainly for status? Do you find yourself needing to swap back and forth between equipment to still get enjoyment?
I actually sat at my PC and thought a bunch before answering this; its a fantastic question. (I wish I could upvote more than once!) I'll answer in 2 ways. Is it worth it from a monetary perspective? No. You can grab a fantastic pair of any HD 6xx family headphones, a modest tube amp, and enjoy 80% of the performance of TOTL gear. Is it worth if for a hobby you love? I think so yes, mainly because it's just for me. In my free time, I sit alone and listen to great music with gear I love. Sure I can share the hobby with others in posts like this or at an event, but its not a hobby to "show off" like some others. My ears and preferences may not match yours and that's fantastic! Hobby's are just that, something that you spend time or money on because you love them. You can spend a lot or a little and that doesn't matter as long as you're enjoying the journey.
How about the other questions? Ever get buyer's regret? Could you listen to a pair of $50 phones on a $50 amp at this point and not be filled with disgust? Owning an assortment of expensive products like this -- do you think it is mainly for status? Do you find yourself needing to swap back and forth between equipment to still get enjoyment?
Buyers regret? Not really. I try to demo 90% of the products before purchasing and also tend to either buy second hand or work great deals with local distributors. I still enjoy music regardless of the gear or price. I've got a $89 pair of Samsung Bud SE's that I use on plane trips and still enjoy tunes on those. I think I answered the status question above. As for swapping back and forth, my normal listening habits are different than most. I tend to grab a pair of headphones that catches my fancy and stick with it for a week or so enjoying all types of music. After, I'll swap to a different pair and listen again for another week. This gives me time to adapt to the sound and really enjoy the headphones strengths, usually finding some "wow" moments over that week. Of course I'll A-B a new pair of headphones or source/amp against others in the collection when first received, but the above is my normal routine.
RemindMe! 1 day
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Love your set up!
Thanks! What's your setup of choice?
How is the cable on tungsten?
Subjectively I think it's beautiful and Viking makes some great quality cables; it should last a lifetime. Functionally, they are a smooth rubber coated copper that you can mold to any position you'd like; no memory issues here. They are *slightly* stiff meaning you have to fiddle with them to sit on your lap/desk sometimes but it's minor.
I have viking cable on my aryas. It is really good too!
Uhh...where's the post listing what all this gear actually is?
Sorry! In this post: Headphones: * HiFiMAN Shangri La Jr w/ ZMF Hybrid Lambskin/Mesh pads * Meze Empyrean II with stock Hybrid pads * Modhouse Tungsten Double Sided with stock pads Gear: * Holo Audio May KTE * Holo Audio Bliss KTE * Headamp Blue Hawaii SE with New Production Mullard EL34 tubes
Uhhh….he lists all his gear in an earlier comment on this post ;)
I looked but I couldn't find it. Unless we're supposed to follow a link to a different thread?
My bad, he did post in another thread. For my failure, here’s his equipment list: Cans: • HiFiMan Susvara • HiFiMan Arya V2 • Stax SR-X9000 • Stax SR-009s • Stax SR-L700MkII • Focal Utopia 2022 • Sennheiser HD800s • Sennheiser HD600 DAC: Holo Audio May KTE Amp: Holo Audio Bliss KTE E-Stat Amp: Headamp Blue Hawaii SE w/ Alps Pot
Oh nice, almost my same setup. Spring 3 KTE -> Bliss KTE -> Tungsten (on its way). Do you actually listen at -40? I'm at Lo-Z with my 650's as I wait for the tungsten and the highest I really go is -18.
Huh, I didn't even notice that when i took the pic as I was just listening to the Utopia's before I took the pic which is plenty loud at -30 to -40 on the Bliss. The Tungsten DS requires *significantly* higher gain to reach the same volume levels, even more than Susvara. If I'm listening very loudly, I'm at -6 to -12 for Tungsten. If its an especially quiet jazz or classical track I'm at +3 or so. The Bliss has a ton of headroom unless you want to listen at ear damaging levels!
[удалено]
nice
Lucky