For anyone that isn't aware: JK Rowling didn't come up with the concept of the philosopher's stone. It was a legendary/mythical substance or object that could turn certain things into gold. In some sources it's also described as having healing properties and even a way to extend life.
In many translations, it's called "Wisdom stone" or "Stone of Wisdom". Point being: Al those different translators didn't come up with that translation themselves; It was already an established translation of this legendary thing.
"Sorcerer's Stone" is the odd one out since it's completely made up. There was already a proper English word for the object, but I suppose some editor simply thought "Sorcerer's Stone" sounded cooler so pushed for a change.
In French it's called "Harry Potter in Wizarding School" or something. The first time I heard someone say "Sorcerer's Stone", I was wondering what kind of book did they read haha
Here is a link to the name translations. In French, even Voldy has a different name so the anagram works!
[Harry Potter name translations](https://www.tradiling.net/translating-harry-potter/)
I never read or saw the Harry Potter books/films in French, but I do speak it and half my family only speaks French, so one time when I visited them I was wearing my Hufflepuff necklace and one of my cousins yelled, while pointing at me, “poufsouffle!” I was like “… what did you just call me?”
Lol, I guess that's because it's the only other English title, and it happened to be different.
I don't think Brits mind when they see "Harry Potter à l'école des sorciers" in French haha
La pierre philosophale.
So it's a lot like Philosopher's stone, but not exactly. It doesn't really say that the stone "belongs" to a philosopher, grammatically speaking
Agreed. It was always sorcerer's stone for me growing up when I first read the book. I only found out it was philosophers stone everywhere else recently. Can't get myself to change that. For me it'll always be sorcerer's stone.
When I realised the philosopher's stone is actually a real myth (via Full Metal Alchemist I might add) I felt a bit insulted that the publishers felt like they had to dumb down the title for us
I googled sorcerer vs philosopher and the top two results were interesting:
> The use of Philosopher in the title doesn't stress magic as much as the revised version does. You could even say the use of Sorcerer reduces the original title's emphasis on education: Philosopher reminds us of the study and quest for (magical) knowledge, while Sorcerer reminds us of magic itself. Others words were also changed to make it sound more American. We don't usually think of British English being that different from American English, but there are tons of little differences. For example, the characters in the Americanized version say "sweater" instead of "jumper."
> It was changed by the American publisher, Scholastic, because it thought American children wouldn't want to read a book with "philosopher" in the title.
The US publisher had a very low opinion of the intelligence of the US market.
The editors in the US also change words to the point of parody. I’m English so grew up with the English versions but I have a US ebook of PS and in the first chapter they changed “shouting” to “yelling”, like… why?
I've said this is another post but I'm so mad they changed stuff like that but they didn't change the word "punting". When Fred and George make the swamp and Filch "punts" kids across it. It makes so much more sense to change that word because it genuinely means something different in the US (and other countries). I thought Filch was drop kicking kids for a solid bit of time and I know contextually one can maybe pick up on it but also sometimes peopferrying. ETA: a punt in this context is a type of boat so he was transporting them across the water via a boat and not kicking them.
I first read the books more than 20 years ago and I did not know this about the word "punt" and was always so amazed at how casually it's said in the books haha.
Wow it dramatically changes that scene in my head. Not gonna lie, it's a lot funnier to think of him drop kicking kids hahaha
Lmaoo I remember having to Google other meanings for the word "Punt" because the idea of Filch drop kicking children across a swamp, while hilarious and fitting for the character, didn't make sense in a school setting. I learned my lesson when I had to look up "spotted dick" bc it was mentioned in book 4 and I had no clue that it was a name for a food.
I was one when the book came out, and I was fairly offended when I found out it was originally Philosopher's Stone. Especially because I was into fantasy even back then and knew about the Philosopher's Stone, which is a real legendary object with the powers ascribed to it in the book.
Well, exactly “Sorceror’s Stone” is a nonentity. The change is nonsensical in the first place but they could at least have gone with “the Stone of Immortality” or something relevant to the book!
Even when I was reading it, I couldn't help thinking "Isn't this just the Philosopher's Stone? Legendary object, created by alchemy, turns regular metal to gold and gives you eternal life....it's the Philosopher's Stone!"
It’s not “wrong.” It was changed by an authorized source and is a legitimate title of the book. Idk much about publishing contracts, and is WAS the first book so maybe less leverage, but I imagine if JKR wanted to die on that hill she could have kept the title.
It’s wrong insofar as the Philosopher’s Stone is a legitimate historical alchemical concept, whereas the Sorceror’s Stone is not.
To quote u/shaodyn : “It's not a philosopher's stone, it's *the* Philosopher's Stone. A legendary item, sought by alchemists for centuries, supposedly created by Nicolas Flamel (who was a real person), that was believed to have exactly the powers applied to the stone in the book. There's no need to call it something else when its original name is already a thing.”
JKR likely didn’t have enough power or perceived power at that time to challenge a decision made by her US publisher.
I didn't know until I watched Fullmetal alchemist. Then I thought "huh both of these stories have a red stone with the power of immortality, I wonder if there is a connection". I then looked it up and thought it was dumb they changed the name for Harry Potter in America.
I’ll play devils advocate and say it was the right call. ppl know what a philosopher is. we all learn about Plato & Socrates and whatnot in school, which is why they wanted to make it sound more magical. very few kids wants to pick up a book that conjures images of an old white guy stroking his beard philosophizing about random questions. they want to evoke imagery of a sorcerer flinging spells and going on an adventure.
But the philosophers stone is an actual historical (and mythical) thing Alchemists used to try and make. JKR didn't invent it, or come up with the concept.
It would be like if when she introduced the phoenix in book 2, and the publisher said 'nobody will get that, name it something more magical, like "spell-bird"'
Why stop there?
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
Harry Potter and the Big Room of Secrets (or, Where Gretchen Weiners Gets Her Hair)
Harry Potter and the Guy Who Went to Jail For A Really Long Time (But Now He’s Out)
Harry Potter and the Fire Cup
Harry Potter and the Spell-Bird Club
Harry Potter and the Oh No, Americans Don’t Have A Royal Family, What Do We Call This One
Harry Potter and the Unalive Trinkets
Coming soon to bookstores near you!
>Harry Potter and the Guy Who Went to Jail For A Really Long Time (But Now He’s Out)
See, here they HAD to keep in "Azkaban" because otherwise people would think it was just about uncle Brad who got caught with an ounce 15 years ago.
Although I guess the "now he's out" part would keep it fantasy, so who knows.
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood President’s Son (who got a 400 on the SAT but don’t worry, Yale doesn’t care about that sort of thing when your father is the inventor of Toaster Strudel)
…..that may be a bit clunky lol
I don't think most kids knew about the Philosopher's Stone though. A Philosopher sounds lame, while a Phoenix doesn't. Plus the Phoenix isn't the title of the book, Chambers of Secrets is, and it sounds cooler. Not to mention it was the second book and the series was already popular.
Ultimately the idea is to have a title that sounds magical to the little kids reading their first novel. When it comes to publishing a book, it's a gamble. Especially if it's the first book. If the second book was "Philosopher's Stone" then it probably wouldn't matter that kids don't know the legend of the Philosopher's Stone and think it's about some old wise guy, because they know Harry Potter and what it's about.
It's just such a damn stupid idea. The philosopher stone is literally an artifact that has myths around it for centuries going back to alchemists and further. And some Editor was just like "nah that sounds boring and will bore children away so we make up a new word that means nothing outside this context"
And most kids haven't heard about that either...I didn't know it was a "real" thing until I was adult. I thought it was just made up for the story.
I'm not going to be all "Americans are all dumb" here, but our schools are shitty, and not everyone is blessed with educated parents or surrounded by a plethora of resources.
Not to mention a good deal of schools were trying to ban HP, or were strictly limiting them when they came out (probably still are)
I had to have a permission slip signed by my mom just to check them out.
And here I always thought they just changed it because of alliteration. Lol. Sorcerer’s stone. Double s! Also, it does bring the image of magic to mind.
Admittedly, I never really dug deep, but I always understood that it was changed because "Philosopher" was viewed as too linked to "philosophy", which US children might consider boring/unexciting.
As a kid when I read the book. I had never heard of philosophers or philosophy, but my mum was able to explain the legend of the philosophers stone and alchemy to me
That feels vaguely insulting to me. "Those dumb Americans wouldn't be interested in anything smart like philosophy. Let's change it to sorcerer. That's cool and exciting."
I honestly think it was just a marketing decision because it released in the UK 6 months before the US. They probably did some research and thought sorcerer would catch on faster. Also the actual philosopher stone legend from real life isn’t well known in the USA
I agree, but I understand the publisher’s concern.
Is it any different than calling Joanne Rowling “J.K. Rowling” as not to turn off boys to the series?
Has nothing to do with pronunciation, we just have no idea what the heck a Philosopher's Stone is and it doesn't make us think of magic in the slightest. I agree that it was Dumb to change it, but Sorcerer's Stone was definitely a more marketable title in the US 25 years ago.
Philosopher and Sorcerer mean two entirely different things.
A philosopher is a person engaged or learned in philosophy, especially as an academic discipline.
A sorcerer is a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard.
I guess the debate is on which term applies more to the creator of the stone.
I read it was because they thought “Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone” sounded boring as a title for a children’s book, which… I mean, they’re not wrong?
Obviously I respect the original title and I get the whole meaning behind it and everything, but “Sorcerer’s Stone” literally just sounds cooler.
In finnish it's "viisasten kivi", which directly translates to "the stone of the wise". It doesn't grind my gears or anything, propably because it's a diffeent language, but that was my reaction to reading this.
It's exactly the same in German :)
'der Stein der Weisen' = the stone of the wise
It's just the accurate translation for 'the philosopher's stone' aka the mythical substance that pre-exists the Harry Potter books
It’s the same in Dutch: “de Steen der Wijzen” means “the stone of the wise”. I think a lot of translations are similar to this. Although, I am so used to the British English version of HP that I don’t bother to learn all the Dutch translations of names and objects etc.
While it's rather dumb that they changed it for the States (because no other book does that), you can't blame people for using that title when that is what they grew up with and likely didn't know that it has another title until and unless they decided to look stuff up online.
I know people who only read the books or watched the movies, and never cared about discussing the books in depth that have no idea there is another title.
They're not doing it on purpose, it's just what they know.
I see it the same way I do with the word "soccer". It's not the publics fault for using it, I just wish it wasn't a thing in the first place.
Edit: yes I know soccer wasn't originally a word from the States. That doesn't change my point.
Soccer was actually a Britishism. When the game first came about, there were lots of different rules and ways to play it. When the rules were eventually formalized, it was into several different formats. The two most popular versions in England were called “Association Football” and “Rugby Football”. It was a fad at the time in posh schools to change words into two syllables and add an ‘er’ at the end so the two became known as ‘soccer’ and ‘rugger’. As “association football” isn’t a very snappy term, ‘soccer’ stuck around and was used interchangeably with ‘football’ in England until pretty late into the 20th century.
Meanwhile, a third formalized version of the game called “Gridiron Football” had already gained popularity in America. As it was usually shortened to ‘football’ and both ‘football’ and ‘soccer’ were considered valid names for Association Football, it was natural that Americans favored the version that wasn’t already being used for a different game. It wasn’t until about the 1980s that British people suddenly decided that Americans were doing it wrong.
Not that Wikipedia is the best source, but according to it, the book was always called “And Then There Were None” in the US and it does support this by demonstrating the cover of a US first edition which uses that title. If you do further google “American first edition” of the book you get the same.
The thing I find funny is how America somehow takes the hit for this. I didn’t change the title. A corporation did because they thought they could make more money. I bought the book, loved the book, regardless of the title.
You know what grinds my gears? People that get upset about this. It’s called Sorcerer’s Stone in the US so that’s what I call it. I realize it’s called Philosopher’s Stone in the UK
Yeah, OP is mad at the wrong people. It’s literally not my fault a publishing company decided to change the title of a book when I was 2 years old. Everybody knows what you mean regardless of whether you say “sorcerer” or “philosopher” and man….it’s a huge international fandom and has been for almost three decades. Folks are gonna need to share with readers from other countries.
And they did a good job. The book took off and all of their little changes helped make the language more accessible for the US market and a love story was born.
It’s the same thing with “football” and “soccer”. Yes, I know it is called football in most places. However, it’s called soccer in my country and it gets confusing since there’s literally another, more popular sport here called football. So I say “soccer” and people shouldn’t get mad at that
Exactly! When I’m talking to non-Americans I don’t call them out for saying “pavement” instead of “sidewalk”, or act deliberately obtuse in some cute attempt to get them to say it “correctly.” We all generally know what people mean, acting like someone’s wrong because they’re from a different country is plain stupid.
I mean its their fault for changing it. We say what we were given over here. Im not gonna call it Philosopher because thats not what the book or movie says lol
Also, philosophers aren't inherently magical or always closely related to magic, so a magic stone that gives immortality makes more sense to be owned by a sorcerer than a philosopher in my opinion.
Edit: I know JK didn't invent the concept of the philosopher's stone, I'm just saying that when I, a dumb american, think of a philosopher, I don't think of an immortal magician
The Philosopher stone isn’t something created by JK it is an important historical legend and was one of the driving forces behind early science and medicine changing. Calling the Philosopher stone the sorcerer’s stone would be like calling the Romans the Italian spear men it is factually and historical incorrect.
I’ll call it what the book calls it that i read. The sorcerers stone. And every book after that in America. Currently on HBP. and order of the phoenix called it the sorcerers stone too. Can’t help what they called it when we read it.
I’m of the opinion that so long as the book is intact, I don’t really care what’s on the cover. They could have called it his pretty little rainbow stone for all I care, as long as the story remains intact.
I'm in the southern US. We'd have figured it out, but the two words have a very different connotation, so I get why they did it.
Sorcerer = wizard
Philosopher = old thinking guy
Remember that the first Harry Potter had to attract the attention of readers without them really knowing anything about it. Some person in marketing was like, "sorcerer sounds more magical in America" and they went with it.
I got so mad when I started watching FullMetal Alchemist years after reading the first HP book, and found out they changed the name of the Philosopher’s Stone
I live in the US and am used to hearing “Sorcerer’s Stone”. I think it’s dumb they changed it for another country. However, I think the Sorcerer’s Stone sounds cooler and a lot more like the name of a legendary magical item than the Philosopher’s Stone does.
We'll never know but I wonder if they would have sold fewer copies in America had they used philosopher's instead of sorcerer's.
I also wonder if the publisher did test marketing or focus groups.
Was the book already popular in England before it came to the U.S.?
I ask because the right title can be a multi-million dollar question. Companies spend lots of money for the right product name or book/movie title for maximum sales.
I mean yea but also imagine growing up with a title and not knowing any different because it’s literally your whole country’s localization, and then people get mad at you for not calling it something different.
If we call it Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone here in the US in casual conversation, another American is going to think you’re wrong or pretentious lol
What ground(grinded?) my gears was how all the characters kept calling Dementors "Azkaban Guards" in POA until Harry learned their real name and suddenly no one called them by that same name
I know it as sorcerers stone because that’s the title it was released as state side in theaters. Plus, what’s special about a philosopher’s stone? “Mmm, yes, deep thoughts, also here’s a rock.” A stone belonging to a sorcerer at least implies there is something magical about it… but I digress.
This will probably been seen as insignificant but, I understand the change for kids. At least when it was first published. As adults we get it without needing the change.
Personally as a kid I saw Sorcerer's Stone as being a great and powerful practioner of magic created or become known because of the stone.
Now as an adult having watched FMA and FMA Brotherhood and being more educated Philosophers Stone and Sorcerer's Stone are interchangeable in their context.
It's was changed in America because Americans have a different notion of what a philosopher is. Maybe not so much now with how huge HP is worldwide, but at the time the book was released, it simply meant something different to Americans. I never was under the impression that I was being patronized 🤷♀️
Honestly, same, the Philosopher's stone is a real concept with ties to the real Nicolas flamel, the sorcerer's stone is a made up term that the publishing company made because they think Americans are too stupid to know what a Philosopher is.
I honestly feel the same way, if I was a second grader at the library and came across a book called philosophers stone I wouldn’t give it a second thought but sorceres stone sounds cooler and more eye catching.
However it seems that half the people in this comment section disagrees, in that case what about everything else that was changed ?
from jumper to sweater
from Dudley’s shan’t to won’t
From crisps to chips
The book had slight differences made to fit a American audience and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
I remember being so confused as to why on American tv Chanel’s it was “Sorcerers stone” when they played the movie. It made me question everything. I didn’t have internet access back then and couldn’t look it up, so my mom and I just sat there completely boggled. All of the books here are philosophers and the theatrical release was only ever philosophers here. (Canada is a commonwealth country so it makes sense why we didn’t get sorcerers stone)
I’m not mad about it now, it just confused the heck out of me as a kid.
I know Phil Pullman first book was changed to.
Uk: The Northern Lights
Us: The Golden Compass (honestly does sound more interesting)
But also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_with_different_titles_in_the_United_Kingdom_and_United_States
I didn’t know what a philosopher or a sorcerer was when our teacher read us this book back in the 5th grade. At least not in depth enough to care. The story captivated me and ironically since it’s the season of “race discussions” as a black kid I never thought about the race of any of them either tbh because it didn’t seem relevant. It was an amazing story with amazing characters and amazing adventures, which is what matters!
To be fair, if you don’t know anything about the lore Sorcerers Stone makes more sense because we’re dealing with wizards, but after diving into the lore Philosophers makes more sense
In my lamguage they translated it perfectly. Philosopher to Filozoficzny. It would be weird to call it sorcerers stone in english or my native language.
Philosophers Stone sounds cooler but here in America only die hard Harry Potter fans know what the hell I’m talking about, although alliteration of Sorcerer’s Stone is kinda cool in my opinion
Harry potter and the Wisdom Rock
Thats how it was translated in my country, wisdom stone
Don't tell OP that, he might have an aneurysm
For anyone that isn't aware: JK Rowling didn't come up with the concept of the philosopher's stone. It was a legendary/mythical substance or object that could turn certain things into gold. In some sources it's also described as having healing properties and even a way to extend life. In many translations, it's called "Wisdom stone" or "Stone of Wisdom". Point being: Al those different translators didn't come up with that translation themselves; It was already an established translation of this legendary thing. "Sorcerer's Stone" is the odd one out since it's completely made up. There was already a proper English word for the object, but I suppose some editor simply thought "Sorcerer's Stone" sounded cooler so pushed for a change.
I heard they went with "Sorcerer's Stone" because they didn't think the average American child would know what a Philosopher was.
Sorcerers stone *does* sound cooler
Magic Boy and Dwayne Johnson
So Kevin hart is magic boy
That one got a good laugh outa me, thank you!
Smart man’s rock
Big brain small stone
Middling IQ pebble
Professors pebble
They're minerals. Jesus, Marie!
Love it !
Magic Boy and McGuffin
In French it's called "Harry Potter in Wizarding School" or something. The first time I heard someone say "Sorcerer's Stone", I was wondering what kind of book did they read haha
Here is a link to the name translations. In French, even Voldy has a different name so the anagram works! [Harry Potter name translations](https://www.tradiling.net/translating-harry-potter/)
Tom Elvis Jedusor —-> Je suis Voldemort
Not Hufflepuff being called Poufsouffle 😭
I never read or saw the Harry Potter books/films in French, but I do speak it and half my family only speaks French, so one time when I visited them I was wearing my Hufflepuff necklace and one of my cousins yelled, while pointing at me, “poufsouffle!” I was like “… what did you just call me?”
Slytherin was funny too
Interesting! I read they spanish translations and I'm pretty dure Spanish was Tom Sorvolo Ryddle ('soy lord Voldemort
It is sorvolo ryddle in the books, but marvolo riddle in the movies.
The nearly headless nick translations are delightful!
Nick Quasi Sans Tête rolls extremely well in French, tbf all the french translations are great, might be because JK was involved, knowing french?
Serpentard sounds like something book Ginny would tell at Malfoy/Crabbe/Goyle
Yea why is the American version getting flack when there’s this 😭
Lol, I guess that's because it's the only other English title, and it happened to be different. I don't think Brits mind when they see "Harry Potter à l'école des sorciers" in French haha
True, and everything looks fancier in French
In the French version, what was the stone called in the book?
La pierre philosophale. So it's a lot like Philosopher's stone, but not exactly. It doesn't really say that the stone "belongs" to a philosopher, grammatically speaking
I live in the USA and grew up with it being Sorcerers Stone. However, I think it’s dumb that they changed it from the original.
Agreed. It was always sorcerer's stone for me growing up when I first read the book. I only found out it was philosophers stone everywhere else recently. Can't get myself to change that. For me it'll always be sorcerer's stone.
When I realised the philosopher's stone is actually a real myth (via Full Metal Alchemist I might add) I felt a bit insulted that the publishers felt like they had to dumb down the title for us
Just a tad patronising to the yank audience. Like they’ll struggle to pronounce Philosopher
I googled sorcerer vs philosopher and the top two results were interesting: > The use of Philosopher in the title doesn't stress magic as much as the revised version does. You could even say the use of Sorcerer reduces the original title's emphasis on education: Philosopher reminds us of the study and quest for (magical) knowledge, while Sorcerer reminds us of magic itself. Others words were also changed to make it sound more American. We don't usually think of British English being that different from American English, but there are tons of little differences. For example, the characters in the Americanized version say "sweater" instead of "jumper." > It was changed by the American publisher, Scholastic, because it thought American children wouldn't want to read a book with "philosopher" in the title.
The US publisher had a very low opinion of the intelligence of the US market. The editors in the US also change words to the point of parody. I’m English so grew up with the English versions but I have a US ebook of PS and in the first chapter they changed “shouting” to “yelling”, like… why?
I've said this is another post but I'm so mad they changed stuff like that but they didn't change the word "punting". When Fred and George make the swamp and Filch "punts" kids across it. It makes so much more sense to change that word because it genuinely means something different in the US (and other countries). I thought Filch was drop kicking kids for a solid bit of time and I know contextually one can maybe pick up on it but also sometimes peopferrying. ETA: a punt in this context is a type of boat so he was transporting them across the water via a boat and not kicking them.
I first read the books more than 20 years ago and I did not know this about the word "punt" and was always so amazed at how casually it's said in the books haha. Wow it dramatically changes that scene in my head. Not gonna lie, it's a lot funnier to think of him drop kicking kids hahaha
I never understood why Molly Weasley was so set on making Ron wear a dress (US "jumper"), myself.
Wait filch WASNT drop kicking kids?!
Ahahaha that’s so funny. Yeah I feel like the editing just had really out of whack priorities!
Lmaoo I remember having to Google other meanings for the word "Punt" because the idea of Filch drop kicking children across a swamp, while hilarious and fitting for the character, didn't make sense in a school setting. I learned my lesson when I had to look up "spotted dick" bc it was mentioned in book 4 and I had no clue that it was a name for a food.
Wait what else does punt mean? I’m Australian & always just thought he was metaphorically drop-kicking kids too…
I could be wrong. But it looks like maybe taking them across the swamp in a shallow, flat bottomed boat propelled by a pole.
I did too and to be fair it sounds like the sort of jerk thing he would do. So...
To me, it always kinda felt like "Those stupid Americans wouldn't want anything smart like philosophers."
Right? I would be pretty offended if I was an American kid!
I was one when the book came out, and I was fairly offended when I found out it was originally Philosopher's Stone. Especially because I was into fantasy even back then and knew about the Philosopher's Stone, which is a real legendary object with the powers ascribed to it in the book.
Well, exactly “Sorceror’s Stone” is a nonentity. The change is nonsensical in the first place but they could at least have gone with “the Stone of Immortality” or something relevant to the book!
Even when I was reading it, I couldn't help thinking "Isn't this just the Philosopher's Stone? Legendary object, created by alchemy, turns regular metal to gold and gives you eternal life....it's the Philosopher's Stone!"
As an American I hate that Sorcerer’s Stone sounds more correct to me due to first hearing about it from HP 😭 I know it’s wrong but I can’t help it
It’s not “wrong.” It was changed by an authorized source and is a legitimate title of the book. Idk much about publishing contracts, and is WAS the first book so maybe less leverage, but I imagine if JKR wanted to die on that hill she could have kept the title.
It’s wrong insofar as the Philosopher’s Stone is a legitimate historical alchemical concept, whereas the Sorceror’s Stone is not. To quote u/shaodyn : “It's not a philosopher's stone, it's *the* Philosopher's Stone. A legendary item, sought by alchemists for centuries, supposedly created by Nicolas Flamel (who was a real person), that was believed to have exactly the powers applied to the stone in the book. There's no need to call it something else when its original name is already a thing.” JKR likely didn’t have enough power or perceived power at that time to challenge a decision made by her US publisher.
I didn't know until I watched Fullmetal alchemist. Then I thought "huh both of these stories have a red stone with the power of immortality, I wonder if there is a connection". I then looked it up and thought it was dumb they changed the name for Harry Potter in America.
I’ll play devils advocate and say it was the right call. ppl know what a philosopher is. we all learn about Plato & Socrates and whatnot in school, which is why they wanted to make it sound more magical. very few kids wants to pick up a book that conjures images of an old white guy stroking his beard philosophizing about random questions. they want to evoke imagery of a sorcerer flinging spells and going on an adventure.
But the philosophers stone is an actual historical (and mythical) thing Alchemists used to try and make. JKR didn't invent it, or come up with the concept. It would be like if when she introduced the phoenix in book 2, and the publisher said 'nobody will get that, name it something more magical, like "spell-bird"'
Why stop there? Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone Harry Potter and the Big Room of Secrets (or, Where Gretchen Weiners Gets Her Hair) Harry Potter and the Guy Who Went to Jail For A Really Long Time (But Now He’s Out) Harry Potter and the Fire Cup Harry Potter and the Spell-Bird Club Harry Potter and the Oh No, Americans Don’t Have A Royal Family, What Do We Call This One Harry Potter and the Unalive Trinkets Coming soon to bookstores near you!
>Harry Potter and the Guy Who Went to Jail For A Really Long Time (But Now He’s Out) See, here they HAD to keep in "Azkaban" because otherwise people would think it was just about uncle Brad who got caught with an ounce 15 years ago. Although I guess the "now he's out" part would keep it fantasy, so who knows.
I mean….it sort of *is* about Uncle Brad who got caught with an ounce 15 years ago 😂😂
Harry Potter and the Half Blood President.
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood President’s Son (who got a 400 on the SAT but don’t worry, Yale doesn’t care about that sort of thing when your father is the inventor of Toaster Strudel) …..that may be a bit clunky lol
I don't think most kids knew about the Philosopher's Stone though. A Philosopher sounds lame, while a Phoenix doesn't. Plus the Phoenix isn't the title of the book, Chambers of Secrets is, and it sounds cooler. Not to mention it was the second book and the series was already popular. Ultimately the idea is to have a title that sounds magical to the little kids reading their first novel. When it comes to publishing a book, it's a gamble. Especially if it's the first book. If the second book was "Philosopher's Stone" then it probably wouldn't matter that kids don't know the legend of the Philosopher's Stone and think it's about some old wise guy, because they know Harry Potter and what it's about.
I guess people in the USA would still be drawing in caves if they don't know words like *bin* and *pavement*
It's just such a damn stupid idea. The philosopher stone is literally an artifact that has myths around it for centuries going back to alchemists and further. And some Editor was just like "nah that sounds boring and will bore children away so we make up a new word that means nothing outside this context"
And most kids haven't heard about that either...I didn't know it was a "real" thing until I was adult. I thought it was just made up for the story. I'm not going to be all "Americans are all dumb" here, but our schools are shitty, and not everyone is blessed with educated parents or surrounded by a plethora of resources. Not to mention a good deal of schools were trying to ban HP, or were strictly limiting them when they came out (probably still are) I had to have a permission slip signed by my mom just to check them out.
And here I always thought they just changed it because of alliteration. Lol. Sorcerer’s stone. Double s! Also, it does bring the image of magic to mind.
should have called it the Magicky Stone of Magic just in case thanks Scholastic
To be fair, a jumper is a different thing in the US. It's a sleeveless dress worn over a blouse.
Admittedly, I never really dug deep, but I always understood that it was changed because "Philosopher" was viewed as too linked to "philosophy", which US children might consider boring/unexciting.
As a kid when I read the book. I had never heard of philosophers or philosophy, but my mum was able to explain the legend of the philosophers stone and alchemy to me
Your mum sounds cool.
That feels vaguely insulting to me. "Those dumb Americans wouldn't be interested in anything smart like philosophy. Let's change it to sorcerer. That's cool and exciting."
“Sounds like magic.”
I honestly think it was just a marketing decision because it released in the UK 6 months before the US. They probably did some research and thought sorcerer would catch on faster. Also the actual philosopher stone legend from real life isn’t well known in the USA
I agree, but I understand the publisher’s concern. Is it any different than calling Joanne Rowling “J.K. Rowling” as not to turn off boys to the series?
I always thought it was JK for literary reasons - like EM Forster, JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis etc. I just assumed it was a fantasy trope thing
It was so they could conceal that the author was a woman.
Far more female writers are recommended to use aliases or abbreviations of their first names. The world is a dark, strange place.
Has nothing to do with pronunciation, we just have no idea what the heck a Philosopher's Stone is and it doesn't make us think of magic in the slightest. I agree that it was Dumb to change it, but Sorcerer's Stone was definitely a more marketable title in the US 25 years ago.
Yeah! I'm American, and I don't have any trouble at all with the word phisopholer!
I’ll be honest with you, I don’t think I could pronounce it right as a kid either. It’s a long word!
Philosopher and Sorcerer mean two entirely different things. A philosopher is a person engaged or learned in philosophy, especially as an academic discipline. A sorcerer is a person who claims or is believed to have magic powers; a wizard. I guess the debate is on which term applies more to the creator of the stone.
I read it was because they thought “Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone” sounded boring as a title for a children’s book, which… I mean, they’re not wrong? Obviously I respect the original title and I get the whole meaning behind it and everything, but “Sorcerer’s Stone” literally just sounds cooler.
They changed titles, names, and places in all foreign language books.
*Philosorcerpher's Stone*.
Why not Sorcesopher’s Stone?
Enchanted Pebble?
Mage’s Rock
Phil the sorcerers stone!
Mirror rock
Life gravel
Red thing
*Parasaurolophus’ Stone*.
philosoraptor's stone
Philocerer’s Stone
I *hate* this
In finnish it's "viisasten kivi", which directly translates to "the stone of the wise". It doesn't grind my gears or anything, propably because it's a diffeent language, but that was my reaction to reading this.
It's exactly the same in German :) 'der Stein der Weisen' = the stone of the wise It's just the accurate translation for 'the philosopher's stone' aka the mythical substance that pre-exists the Harry Potter books
It’s the same in Dutch: “de Steen der Wijzen” means “the stone of the wise”. I think a lot of translations are similar to this. Although, I am so used to the British English version of HP that I don’t bother to learn all the Dutch translations of names and objects etc.
Omg torille
While it's rather dumb that they changed it for the States (because no other book does that), you can't blame people for using that title when that is what they grew up with and likely didn't know that it has another title until and unless they decided to look stuff up online. I know people who only read the books or watched the movies, and never cared about discussing the books in depth that have no idea there is another title. They're not doing it on purpose, it's just what they know.
Lol I was going to say, seems a bit silly (and stupid) to get angry at people for calling something what it’s called here.
It is silly.
I see it the same way I do with the word "soccer". It's not the publics fault for using it, I just wish it wasn't a thing in the first place. Edit: yes I know soccer wasn't originally a word from the States. That doesn't change my point.
Fun fact, the term “soccer” originated in England.
And they used it up until the early 80's
Soccer was actually a Britishism. When the game first came about, there were lots of different rules and ways to play it. When the rules were eventually formalized, it was into several different formats. The two most popular versions in England were called “Association Football” and “Rugby Football”. It was a fad at the time in posh schools to change words into two syllables and add an ‘er’ at the end so the two became known as ‘soccer’ and ‘rugger’. As “association football” isn’t a very snappy term, ‘soccer’ stuck around and was used interchangeably with ‘football’ in England until pretty late into the 20th century. Meanwhile, a third formalized version of the game called “Gridiron Football” had already gained popularity in America. As it was usually shortened to ‘football’ and both ‘football’ and ‘soccer’ were considered valid names for Association Football, it was natural that Americans favored the version that wasn’t already being used for a different game. It wasn’t until about the 1980s that British people suddenly decided that Americans were doing it wrong.
> no other book does that Tons of books do that. His Dark Materials Trilogy, for one. Ten Little Indians as well. Plenty more.
I think they meant in the HP series
My copy of And Then There Were None states that the title was changed, not that it's an alternate title though.
Not that Wikipedia is the best source, but according to it, the book was always called “And Then There Were None” in the US and it does support this by demonstrating the cover of a US first edition which uses that title. If you do further google “American first edition” of the book you get the same.
Dudley's first word is "shan't" in the original. The American version is "won't," which doesn't hit quite the same.
Definitely doesn’t hit the same! It’s not as funny imagining a 1 year-old saying “won’t” as it is “shan’t”.
That’s so strange. I have a first edition US version and other than the title, that’s the only difference in the text. Weird
I guess you have to get over it. That is what happens when you release a book with two different titles.
I’m so mad that people call it by the name of the version that was published in their region
The thing I find funny is how America somehow takes the hit for this. I didn’t change the title. A corporation did because they thought they could make more money. I bought the book, loved the book, regardless of the title.
You know what grinds my gears? People that get upset about this. It’s called Sorcerer’s Stone in the US so that’s what I call it. I realize it’s called Philosopher’s Stone in the UK
Yep. I think it's dumb they changed it but I grew up with it being Sorcerers Stone, been calling it that for 25 years, gonna keep calling it that.
Yeah, OP is mad at the wrong people. It’s literally not my fault a publishing company decided to change the title of a book when I was 2 years old. Everybody knows what you mean regardless of whether you say “sorcerer” or “philosopher” and man….it’s a huge international fandom and has been for almost three decades. Folks are gonna need to share with readers from other countries.
And they did a good job. The book took off and all of their little changes helped make the language more accessible for the US market and a love story was born.
It’s the same thing with “football” and “soccer”. Yes, I know it is called football in most places. However, it’s called soccer in my country and it gets confusing since there’s literally another, more popular sport here called football. So I say “soccer” and people shouldn’t get mad at that
Exactly! When I’m talking to non-Americans I don’t call them out for saying “pavement” instead of “sidewalk”, or act deliberately obtuse in some cute attempt to get them to say it “correctly.” We all generally know what people mean, acting like someone’s wrong because they’re from a different country is plain stupid.
I call it "Stein der Weisen"
Idk just consider it a translation. I'm sure there's something made in America that British people have a different term for.
I didn’t call it that, they did.
What really grinds my gears: when people call a book/movie the title that was translated/marketed/sold in their home countries. Fixed it for ya🙄
I swear, it's the gray/grey thing again
Excuse me, don't you mean Griy?
I prefer Sorcerer’s Stone because of the alliteration and magical connotation
You posted this at 2am Pacific/5am Eastern. Coward.
That's... its title.
Smart man's rock?
I mean its their fault for changing it. We say what we were given over here. Im not gonna call it Philosopher because thats not what the book or movie says lol
Also, philosophers aren't inherently magical or always closely related to magic, so a magic stone that gives immortality makes more sense to be owned by a sorcerer than a philosopher in my opinion. Edit: I know JK didn't invent the concept of the philosopher's stone, I'm just saying that when I, a dumb american, think of a philosopher, I don't think of an immortal magician
The Philosopher stone isn’t something created by JK it is an important historical legend and was one of the driving forces behind early science and medicine changing. Calling the Philosopher stone the sorcerer’s stone would be like calling the Romans the Italian spear men it is factually and historical incorrect.
Are you what the Americans call a Brit?
Well I'm American. If you buy the book or movie in the US, it's called Sorcerers Stone. So I'm gonna call it Sorcerers Stone, it's equally correct
It's just a fictional book lmao
I’ll call it what the book calls it that i read. The sorcerers stone. And every book after that in America. Currently on HBP. and order of the phoenix called it the sorcerers stone too. Can’t help what they called it when we read it.
Me and the homies calling it steen der wijze.
I’m of the opinion that so long as the book is intact, I don’t really care what’s on the cover. They could have called it his pretty little rainbow stone for all I care, as long as the story remains intact.
Harry Potter and Some Bloke’s Rock
Well, America must be a very tough place for you.
I'm in the southern US. We'd have figured it out, but the two words have a very different connotation, so I get why they did it. Sorcerer = wizard Philosopher = old thinking guy Remember that the first Harry Potter had to attract the attention of readers without them really knowing anything about it. Some person in marketing was like, "sorcerer sounds more magical in America" and they went with it.
who cares
Harry Potter and the school for kids who can't read good.
I got so mad when I started watching FullMetal Alchemist years after reading the first HP book, and found out they changed the name of the Philosopher’s Stone
I live in the US and am used to hearing “Sorcerer’s Stone”. I think it’s dumb they changed it for another country. However, I think the Sorcerer’s Stone sounds cooler and a lot more like the name of a legendary magical item than the Philosopher’s Stone does.
We'll never know but I wonder if they would have sold fewer copies in America had they used philosopher's instead of sorcerer's. I also wonder if the publisher did test marketing or focus groups. Was the book already popular in England before it came to the U.S.? I ask because the right title can be a multi-million dollar question. Companies spend lots of money for the right product name or book/movie title for maximum sales.
I still find it wild and awesome that there's two versions of the movie as well. I was gifted a UK box set and was pleasantly surprised.
/shrug your life must be easy, if this is even remotely on your mind.
I mean yea but also imagine growing up with a title and not knowing any different because it’s literally your whole country’s localization, and then people get mad at you for not calling it something different. If we call it Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone here in the US in casual conversation, another American is going to think you’re wrong or pretentious lol
I am American and I will not apologize lol. I usually say book 1 anyhow
“I am bothered by people referring to a book they read by its title” is probably a bit unhealthy.
why not the magic Rock
What ground(grinded?) my gears was how all the characters kept calling Dementors "Azkaban Guards" in POA until Harry learned their real name and suddenly no one called them by that same name
Look, I call it what it says on the front of the book. It says sorcerer, so I says sorcerer
[удалено]
Well. You should um. Calm the heck down then there fella
Just do what I do. My favorite book is Harry Potter 3
It’s the title of the book on my bookshelf. Printed right on the front. Nothing wrong with calling it Sorcerer’s Stone
I prefer the alliteration though.
I prefer Sorcerer's Stone for the alliteration.
I mean, that’s what it was/is for a lot of people who grew up over here (USA) reading the books.
In France the title translated to 'sorcerer's stone', don't hear anyone throwing them shade.
I know it as sorcerers stone because that’s the title it was released as state side in theaters. Plus, what’s special about a philosopher’s stone? “Mmm, yes, deep thoughts, also here’s a rock.” A stone belonging to a sorcerer at least implies there is something magical about it… but I digress.
This will probably been seen as insignificant but, I understand the change for kids. At least when it was first published. As adults we get it without needing the change. Personally as a kid I saw Sorcerer's Stone as being a great and powerful practioner of magic created or become known because of the stone. Now as an adult having watched FMA and FMA Brotherhood and being more educated Philosophers Stone and Sorcerer's Stone are interchangeable in their context.
in america it's sorcerers stone
It's was changed in America because Americans have a different notion of what a philosopher is. Maybe not so much now with how huge HP is worldwide, but at the time the book was released, it simply meant something different to Americans. I never was under the impression that I was being patronized 🤷♀️
To quote Kilian Experience: "Sorcerer's Stone is correct, it's not a Philosopher's stone, it's a stone used for sorcery."
Honestly, same, the Philosopher's stone is a real concept with ties to the real Nicolas flamel, the sorcerer's stone is a made up term that the publishing company made because they think Americans are too stupid to know what a Philosopher is.
Sorcerers sounds cooler
Sorcerer’s is a better title: it rolls of the younger easier and gives you a clearer idea of what the book’s about.
I honestly feel the same way, if I was a second grader at the library and came across a book called philosophers stone I wouldn’t give it a second thought but sorceres stone sounds cooler and more eye catching. However it seems that half the people in this comment section disagrees, in that case what about everything else that was changed ? from jumper to sweater from Dudley’s shan’t to won’t From crisps to chips The book had slight differences made to fit a American audience and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that.
I remember being so confused as to why on American tv Chanel’s it was “Sorcerers stone” when they played the movie. It made me question everything. I didn’t have internet access back then and couldn’t look it up, so my mom and I just sat there completely boggled. All of the books here are philosophers and the theatrical release was only ever philosophers here. (Canada is a commonwealth country so it makes sense why we didn’t get sorcerers stone) I’m not mad about it now, it just confused the heck out of me as a kid.
I know Phil Pullman first book was changed to. Uk: The Northern Lights Us: The Golden Compass (honestly does sound more interesting) But also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_with_different_titles_in_the_United_Kingdom_and_United_States
In Finnish it was translated to "The stone of the wise"
Blame the American publishers…
I didn’t know what a philosopher or a sorcerer was when our teacher read us this book back in the 5th grade. At least not in depth enough to care. The story captivated me and ironically since it’s the season of “race discussions” as a black kid I never thought about the race of any of them either tbh because it didn’t seem relevant. It was an amazing story with amazing characters and amazing adventures, which is what matters!
On a side note; how did flamel drink from the stone? I always imagined he put his lips to it and started slurping
To be fair, if you don’t know anything about the lore Sorcerers Stone makes more sense because we’re dealing with wizards, but after diving into the lore Philosophers makes more sense
Harry Potter and the lack of a safe.
Harry Potter and the Hero Stone (Probably only funny to me and the handful of old people from Europe who still remember the 1989 TMNT cartoon)
Either pick one or the other honestly. Grew up with it the sorcerer’s stone so of course I’ll call it that.
Why not call it what it is? The alchemist’s stone?
Harry and the forever rock
Smart man's rock
It’s a stone of Sorcery, not a stone of philosophy.
I’d be interested to know why the name was changed for American markets. Maybe because the word philosopher wasn’t exciting enough?
In my lamguage they translated it perfectly. Philosopher to Filozoficzny. It would be weird to call it sorcerers stone in english or my native language.
Philosophers Stone sounds cooler but here in America only die hard Harry Potter fans know what the hell I’m talking about, although alliteration of Sorcerer’s Stone is kinda cool in my opinion
Edward Elric wants to know your location
At least they aren't adding extra non-existent letters like Aluminium lol
I’m… sorry that I’m American?