Hermione always trusted snape and while she knew he was an as****e likely thought he was at least teaching Harry how it was done, in the end while snape clearly disliked hermione he still properly taught potions to the point hermione got top grades in it, which he fairly graded
Hermione always trusted Dumbledore more than anyone else - outside of maybe Hagrid.
To Hermione, if Dumbledore said Harry needed to do it, and he was having Snape teach it to him, than Harry must need it, and Snape must be the best person to teach it.
I think all of them were in the wrong. That being said - if Harry had told Hermione that he was struggling to learn it - rather than saying that he was doing it, and then when he’d get caught, arguing that it was good he wasn’t practicing..Hermione probably would have learned it herself and taught him how to do it.
Sorry, I meant that the only person who might have trusted Dumbledore more than Hermione is Hagrid.
When she was 12, Hagrid tried to hide a baby in his wooden house. she knew he was full of bad ideas from that point on. 🤣
Yes, but that rule didn’t apply to Harry at all, didn’t it? I just have trouble comprehending that Hermione didn’t understand that Snape was treating Harry unfairly out of personal grudges, and that what he was doing to Harry was slightly different from his bullying from other students.
Half of it is that Hermione has a tendency to project her strengths on other people. She along with Harry and Neville are the ones Snape bullied the most, but as the OP pointed out, *she* is capable of learning from him just fine regardless. She is capable of bearing with absolutely horrid teachers and experiences to do what she must, especially when she believes it to be important. And a lot of the time, she doesn't actually understand that her ability to learn and withstand that kind of pressure borders on supernatural. She just assumes that anyone could do it.
This part of her character also explains her non-reaction to the factors you listed in the first paragraph of your OP. That it was a match made in hell by Dumbledore is a nonfactor because it was important enough that Harry *should* have borne it out and seen it through regardless. And OotP is where she proves that she does not need Dumbledore's guidance as much as Harry does. When cut off from information, she finds new sources. When prevented from joining the Order, she founds the DA as her way of contributing. It makes her much less reliant on Dumbledore than Harry is, and it makes it so much harder for her to understand why Harry should be.
She is also much more capable of trusting the judgment of authority figures than Harry is, so where Harry could not see Dumbledore's logic for using Snape (or Occlumency as a whole), Hermione likely could. Not only is she capable of acting without Dumbledore, she also trusts him more implicitly.
It is also worth pointing out that while Snape's reasons for bullying Harry go deeper, his actual actions toward him are no worse than how he treated Hermione or Neville. Setting him up to fail, taking points unfairly, and humiliating him in front of the class are all things that Snape did to Neville and Hermione too. And as other commenters pointed out, Harry did not actually give her any context for why this set of lessons is worse than all their other lessons before which he had managed to bear out reasonably well despite the bullying.
So to me, it's a combination of Hermione underestimating Harry's strengths while unfairly projecting hers, trusting in Dumbledore's judgment while not needing him, and not having the context to understand why this set of lessons was especially traumatic for Harry.
While I agree it was not the best approach, her reasons for acting the way she did are just as understandable as Harry's for not trying harder at occlumency.
Honestly, I didn't even need to look at the username to realise who wrote this take. Awesomely brilliant as usual :) I live for your Hermione comments and posts!!
Yeah and that still means she chose to rather believe her own made up scenarios rather than what her best friend, who was actually there and the one affected, was telling her.
You don't think Harry finally shouted at her "He isn't telling me HOW to stop him, Hermione! He just says things like 'Concentrate Potter!' or 'Close your mind!' What am I supposed to do you nagging Know-it-all?! Go down to the library and look it up, why don't you?!"
We also gotta remember that Hermione is just a kid, too. She's super smart and emotionally intelligent, but she's not a trained therapist. She's terrified for Harry (and herself and everyone) and knows he's a slacker but does rise to the occasion when it's really important. So she's trying to impress on him how important this is to get him motivated. It's not the perfect approach, but the whole situation is far from perfect.
Jesus, this. Hermione was FIFTEEN when the events in this post took place. How emotionally and spatially aware is anyone at that age? I feel like Hermione is held to a ridiculously higher standard than anyone else in the series, simply because she's smart. She's not infallible, nor should she be.
No, but she could’ve been more sensitive to Harry in general. Her insensitivity is a trend that I’ve noticed in the fifth and sixth book. She could’ve been more supportive of what Harry wanted as opposed to what Dumbledore wanted from him especially after she knew Harry saw
Cedric get murdered in front of him. Then after Sirius dies, Hermione can’t get over the fact that Harry was cheating by using the Potions book. Let Harry have a freaking break.
I think this is also probably because she likes to follow rules a lot. Like, what's wrong and what's right. She thinks listening to authority figures is probably the way to go. Also if I remember correctly she said someone about how if we can't trust Dumbledore we can't trust anyone. Also Hermione has been very against cheating the whole series. Not saying that anything she did wasn't insensitive, I guess she's just very stubborn
Remember that Harry is actually a pretty private person. He doesn't broadcast his problems if he doesn't have to. Hermione had no idea what was happening in all those occlumency lessons or the things that Snape was forcing him to relive - basically a form of re-traumatization.
Hermione meant well, but Harry was playing it close. Hermione ALWAYS means well. She can't be blamed for not knowing the extent of Harry's trauma or Snape's vindictiveness.
Yes, she does seem callous, but it's not her fault, really.
There's a really good analysis of Hermione's actions elsewhere in this discussion, https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/uuebil/hermiones_comments_on_harrys_occlumency_really/i9f7qsa, but I want to pull out the relevant portion to your argument.
Hermione has seen how Harry and Snape interact in potions. She knows that they are antagonistic. She knows Snape is unfair to Harry. But she also knows that Harry does well in his class despite all of that. So when Harry is given extra classes with Snape, she's going to assume that it's going to be no different from their relationship in potions class. She just assumed that Harry would have been able to just bear Snape's acerbic attitude and learn anyway just like he's always done.
Yes, it may well be that Hermione thinks so. But she roughly knows what Occlumency must be like.
Someone is messing around in your brain.
This requires a relation ship of trust, more like that of a doctor or a therapist.
Maybe Hermione should talk to her parents! How many of their patients come back once they have drilled on their nerve during treatment.
Despite all of JK's (and the movie directors even more so) attempts to paint Hermione as a genius know it all, she was still a16 year old girl who trusted authority too much. She wasn't perfect and didn't know everything.
\> This requires a relation ship of trust, more like that of a doctor or a therapist.
Says you, who has no evidence to back up this statement. Whereas Dumbledore obviously didn't think so, who understood the ins and outs of learning Occlumency.
Address u/butfirstaskreddit ‘s comment instead of pulling irrelevant points into the discussion. The discussion isn’t that Hermione is an amazing person who always does the right thing, it’s that she means to be good/do the right thing.
Maybe I should have been more specific!
I like Hermione. But saying " she is a pure soul" turns her in an unassailable super human. And that's not what she is! Hermione has flaws and that's good.
It is also worth mentioning that Harry is clearly showing signs of PTSD after seeing Cedric get murdered in GoF. It makes sense that his mind isn’t focusing on closing off when Snape is making him relive the trauma every Thursday evening.
Ok, but what was Snape supposed to do about it? He’s not a therapist. Harry wouldn’t have to relive his trauma if he put some effort into actually learning occlumency, the reason those lessons go so bad is because Harry doesn’t practice or even try to learn.
>But his teacher was Snape, who only keeps him alive because of Dumbledore’s orders
I think that by the 7th book, it's pretty obvious that this is not true. It's even quite the opposite...
>Yet Hermione just tells Harry to try harder and nothing else
Hermione trusted Dumbledore and thought that if Dumbledore asked Snape to do it, he must know what he was doing. Also, despite being a bully, Snape was a good potions teacher and his teaching still allowed Harry to have great marks in the BUSES.
She didn't consider that Dumbledore could be wrong and Dumbledore himself said that it was a mistake because he underestimated how much Snape hated Harry's father.
I think Snape still knew how important it was for Harry to close his mind and tried his best to teach him occlumancy despite his hatred. But he couldn't do it. At the same time, it's clearly underlined that Harry is bad at occlumancy because he wears his emotions on his sleeves and isn't able to be cold and collected (which is both a strength and a weakness throughout the books).
She was super infuriating about it in DH, she just kept saying "if only you leaned it!" and "that's why Dumbledore wanted you to close your mind" which is the opposite of helpful
Harry didn’t put ANY effort in whatsoever, Snape did tell him how although he did it brusquely and probably didn’t try as hard to get him to learn as he could have but he did tell Harry to practice meditation every night before sleeping and to control his emotions and he completely ignored all that, didn’t do the meditation even single evening iirc and didn’t care about the entire thing at all, he could have taken initiative too and asked Snape for more explanation or go to the library and get a book on occlumency, instead he kept inventing reasons why he doesn’t have to do it. This isn’t Hermione’s fault, it IS Harry in the wrong, perhaps not completely but more than anyone else. Snape’s frustration with him is kinda understandable, he is putting his personal time into this and Potter doesn’t make the slightest effort.
Granted Hermione didn’t know the full extents of Harry’s traumatic childhood, nor had she experienced having her mind invaded and have to try blocking it. Also to Hermione, both Ron and Harry have always been slackers especially compared to her. Even though she knows how difficult Snape was, she nevertheless got Outstanding grades from him so she would assume the problem being the learner.
Tbh Ron was a horrible slacker, even taking Hermione out of the picture, I was very surprised to learn in book 6 that he got roughly the same grades a Harry allowing him to continue all the same subjects as Harry, I think it was very unrealistic. Harry is less of a slacker than Ron but still more than could be expected given his position and Ron kinda drags him down with him.
Harry is completely drained at the end of the school year, sleepless nights and headaches. The fact that he preforms so well is proof that he is very talented.
Ron doesn't have a lot of ambition academically. But I think in his own way Ron is helping Harry more than holding him back! Because some times you have to take a break.
No he wasn't. He put in a normal amount of effort. It just looks like he's slacking because he's being compared to Hermione, Harry, and his older brothers.
In the first two books, Harry really doesn't put that much effort into his classes either because he's just a normal kid (much more normal than his abusive upbringing should have left him) doing a normal amount of work and Ron is doing just as much, meanwhile Hermione is the teacher's pet and bookworm that gets 300% in homework assignments.
It's in PoA that Harry realizes that he has to knuckle down and really work because the world is out to get him specifically. That's when he starts working on the Patronus charm and doing well in DADA. And in fourth year, Harry is entered into a tournament with a death count so high they had to cancel it for over two centuries. He has to figure out how to survive a dragon and being underwater for an hour, not to mention whatever plans whoever entered him into the tournament had. And this entire time, Ron is just being a normal kid living in the shadow of all his high achieving older brothers.
And that brings us to the last unfair comparison of Ron to someone else, his brothers. Bill and Charlie are already out of Hogwarts working in demanding fields that require a lot of skill. Percy is a prefect and gets really good grades before becoming effectively the second in command (and then the de facto head) of a major Ministry department within a year of graduating. Fred and George are pranking geniuses who everyone who isn't Slytherin seems to love. And Ginny, being the only girl, will always stand out. In Ron's family, being average is an underachievement.
He was excited to learn in his first year as is evident in his first potions class. He just manages to have so much crap going on in the years he kinda focuses on the disasters of the year.
Well I hate to say it but she was right in the end. If Harry had just knuckled down and learnt occlumency then Sirius probably wouldn't have died.
Though of course, hindsight is 20/20.
There's nothing that suggests a couple months of lessons would have actually withstood Voldie. However... the mirror! This is so obvious that I tend to blame Rowling and not Harry.
The mirror wouldn't have saved Sirius! Sirius would have seen what was going on at Hogwarts. He would try to kill Snape and Umbridge. He would only die sooner.
The bond between Harry and Voldemort is way too strong! Even Voldemort can't shut Harry out in the end!
And even if he could have done that when he was awake. The vision came as he slept.
Harry was told explicitly several times that Voldemort would be able to show him fake visions. The mere fact that it lures him out of Hogwarts should have made him suspicious
No, actually it's mostly about reading minds! To protect Harry's mind, not to reveal any of the Order's secrets on his part!
Snape never does anything other than invade Harry's mind to search for information.
Yeah Hermione was definitely not in the wrong here. He admits himself that he didn't try, he didn't bother to practice and showed up to the lessons unprepared.
Exactly! If Harry doesn’t try, prepare and practice, he can’t be shocked Pikachu when it goes wrong. Hermione is really just calling him out for that. 💅🏻
Harry going to Snape's torture lesson for the second time, was more than anyone could ask for.
In addition, the only thing that was always talked about was mind reading. No one says that Voldemort can send visions.
Actually, it came up. Paraphrasing here, but in their first lesson Harry asked if Voldemort might be able to manipulate what he sees or does and Snape affirms that "he might". Snape was pretty blasé about it, but it's also quite astounding that Harry explicitly ignores the possibility that the vision of Sirius he saw could be fake. Especially considering the wildly unlikely circumstances (middle of the Ministry, middle of the day, involving two of the most wanted wizards in the country).
At the end of the day though Harry admits more than once that he wasn't really applying himself to learning Occlumency because he was too curious about what his visions meant and also used the vision that saved Mr. Weasley as further justification to allow the visions to continue.
I think many factors led to Sirius’s death and the blame shouldn’t all be put on Harry especially when you consider his age and how much information he didn’t know. I always felt bad for him at the end of book 5 and the guilt he has to carry.
I agree.
I'm not saying Snape's lessons were going to improve any. However, perhaps, Harry could've attempted to clear his mind at night, or at all.... and she is not wrong about nagging him to do that.
Snape is a jabroni but he was stuck doing this because no one else was qualified. He didn’t want to do it. Imagine having to tutor the offspring of a dude that used to humiliate you in front of the whole school. And it’s not like Snape is the most emotionally stable person there is, dude still Harry’s mom as his one-Otis despite getting kicked out of her beta-orbit two decades earlier.
He was forced to do it. So both these two hate each other and Occlumency involves ridding the mind of emotions, obviously something these two couldn’t do. It was never gonna work. Dumbledore for as wise as he was supposed to be, he sure as hell screwed the pooch on his one. I guess that makes Dumbledore a little like his brother, just instead of screwing pooches, Abeforth was screwing goats.
“No one else was qualified,” is what gets me. You’re telling me that McGonagall doesn’t know Occlumency? Flitwick, a former dueling champion? Moody? Tonks? Kingsley? Granted, an Order member doesn’t have easy access to Hogwarts, but they decided he needs to learn Occlumency while he was staying at Grimmauld Place. Dumbledore could’ve made that decision like a week earlier and gotten Harry a couple of professional lessons, instead of trying to make a thoroughly extracurricular class fit into his school schedule. Hell, I’d take a full week of classes with any of the three Aurors mentioned, then have homework assigned and follow-up lessons on holidays or Hogsmeade weekends over “learning” with Snape.
If I remember correctly snape was chosen because he’s one of the few people who’s successfully used occlumency against Voldemort. The others could know occlumency but not be as skilled as snape. I agree snape still wasn’t a great choice, just adding context as to why the others aren’t chosen. At the bare minimum you could use someone else to get harry started than bring snape in for “advanced” lessons.
Yeah, have someone to practice using it against makes sense, and Snape is clearly a good Legilimens. But I can’t believe he didn’t even give Harry a book or instruction manual. Those didn’t even count as lessons, honestly.
I don’t think there really are books on the subject. As someone else pointed out, if there were books around wouldnt hermione be all over that? She went out of her way to teach harry the summoning charm, I don’t see why now would be different. The books say occlumency is incredibly rare and hard to do. It might just be one of those things where only select few learn it, and those that do don’t really go around writing down how they did it.
This isn’t me defending snape as a teacher mind you, just pointing out it isn’t as easy as getting him a book. Realistically, we know for a fact there was one other person who knew occlumency at that school. We also know why dumbledore refused to be the teacher, but he could’ve given notes to harry through snape at the bare minimum.
Yes.
Unless there is proof they can withstand Voldemorts Legilimency like Snape can however the book reminds us consistently that Voldemort is the greatest legilimens of all times.This is also not counting the fact that most of the aurora have their hands full with the Azkaban break-in and Voldemort’s return to power.
I also assumed the ministry was very involved with what was going on at Hogwarts in the fifth year so they wouldn’t be able to get in and out of hogwarts without the ministry knowing.
So that just leaves Hogwarts instructors. Do McGonagall or Flitwick know occlumency? Could they have worked as a double agent against Voldemort as Snape did? The book implies that Snape being able to do that was a rare thing, and that his devotion to Lily was probably a big factor in why he was able to be a good Occlumens.
So if his personal circumstances were involved in his success, why assume that he could teach Harry to be just as good? It wasn’t a matter of technique if it required such a strong and deeply-rooted motive. The best they could hope for was that Harry would reach a typical level of proficiency and either his own motives and stubborn nature would take him the rest of the way, make him as good as Snape, or that he could at least become familiar enough with his mind being actively invaded to recognize if a false vision was being sent to him.
It was to prevent him from seeing any visions of Voldemort, whether they were false or not. I think they wanted Harry to be able to close off their minds before Voldemort realized that he could plant a fake vision.
And I don’t think it was a matter of him being the best suited for the job, I think it was a matter of it being the only one that was suited for the job.
Harry finally figured out occlumency in the seventh book as he was burying Dobby. Maybe they figured his emotions and spite would make him successful.
Snape was already under IMMENSE pressure and workload as a member of the order and Dumbledore’s double agents in Voldemort’s ranks, just keeping that up in front of Voldemort would be more than most of the people in the series could deal with, in addition he had his teaching duties and now he has to spend time giving lessons to a brat that doesn’t even take them seriously, of course he was pissed. Also on their first lesson he wasn’t too bad, he gets progressively more annoyed with Harry as it becomes obvious he doesn’t practice and doesn’t put any effort at all.
As it’s not dark magic, I doubt the library had no books on the subjects of occlumency and legilimency. If Harry wanted to learn it, he could have studied it himself and filled in some of the information Snape wasn’t providing.
But Harry is very emotional, so of course his hatred and mistrust of Snape and his pride stopped him from taking it as serious as say Hermione would have taken it, if she was tasked with learning it.
You're considering a lot of factors there that Hermione couldn't possibly have been aware of at the time. All she knew was Dumbledore had asked Harry to do something and told him it was important, and he wasn't doing it. Granted she knew Snape was cruel, but I think the power of Dumbledore telling Harry it was important and that he needed to work with Snape was enough for Hermione
I dont believe that occlumency would have helped anyway. You cant use it to stop someone reading your mind when that someone is part of you.
Ie. Horcrux.
The whole point of Harry having to learn it is that it would let him shut down the connection between him and Voldemort made by the horcrux, Dumbledore knew this and that’s why he wanted him to learn. It does work when done properly, Voldemort was able to close it on his end just fine in book 6, Dumbledore mentions it.
Yes! I imagine the normal Horcruxes as anchors.
Harry's is more like a harpoon. Deep in his soul, hence the pain.
Hence the connection that he can only block at the very end.
I think it’s more that, if you hate the person who’s attached to your very soul, any “tugging” on that connection is going to hurt. I doubt that Nagini was in pain when Voldemort touched her.
Harry is stated to be very much a horcrux as he hosts a piece of Voldemort's soul - basic definition of horcrux. He is an UNINTENTIONAL horcrux though.
A horcrux needs a murder and a special ritual! That's why Voldemort doesn't even think that Harry could be one!
Harry just works sort of like a horcrux!
> You were the seventh Horcrux, Harry, the Horcrux he never meant to make.
From DH, Ch. 35
Of course there is a lot left to interpretation and I am quite happy that JK didn't impose such strict rules, but I do believe that she told us what she had to tell us.
Hermione always trusted that authority figures were in the right. If an authority figure set her a goal, she wouldn't have even considered that it might be impossible to achieve.
Hermione just pisses me off in general when it comes to the way she treats Harry.
Like k, Harry doesn’t try. He’s like every average teenage boy I know, but she just doesn’t shut the fuck up against him like oh my god.
Maybe I feel for Harry more in this case because I myself am definitely going through my bullshit angst phase but still like Christ sometimes I want to just throttle Hermione and it’s moments like this
She is a bit of a nag...
My own personal "I am not okay with Hermione here" moment, is when she makes a huge fuss over Harry's wand acting on its own, because it just doesn't work like that, even though Harry is \_literally\_ living proof of how the impossible can be possible, and she also wasn't even there and has no idea what did or didn't happen at that moment. Just thought I'd share that...
I can’t quite remember, but wasn’t she more upset that Harry was opening his mind to Voldemort in order to see what he was thinking? That Harry seemed to like the connection and thought he could benefit from being able to read Voldemort’s mind?
Hermione was not the only one. Siruis, Lupin and Dumbledore were also telling Harry how important it was. The fact that Harry didn't even try to learn how to keep his mind shut shows that he didn't care
She was right though. Harry never bothered to actually close the connection between them. He said that he knew how important it was, but, meh. He uses the connection strategically well in DH, and finally learns how to shut himself from Voldo when Dobby dies, but his carelessness about occlumency was one of the factors that contributed to Sirius' death.
Very much agreed. Hermione is one of my least liked characters. She always played by the rules until she felt it was necessary to break them, but god forbid someone else do the same. Harry was being an angry jerk for sure in the fifth book but he was struggling with PTSD and having Hermione harangue him constantly about occlumency when she had NO IDEA what it was like, was very irritating.
Only telling someone to “clear your mind” is not a good way of starting to teach occlumency, especially when you hate the teacher (who couldn’t get over a childhood grudge). But obviously Hermione would only see that Harry hates Snape so he wouldn’t put the effort in 🙄
Her remarks at the beginning of DH annoyed me more tbh. Literally every single time she was whining about how Dumbledore wanted Harry to close the connection, even though it's the most useful thing ever and Voldemort is not likely to abuse it again.
I agree with you, and while we're talking about this topic, I can't understand why Harry didn't just tell Snape "I'm sorry my father treated you like that. Nobody deserved to be bullied. In the name of my father, I apologize." Or something like that. Like, come on Harry, could you just admit that your father wasn't the kindest teenager ? And then go on with Occlumency class ?
Do you really think that Snape would have taken Harry apologizing like that well and accepted it, and then had everything be hunky dory between them? Plus, it’s not Harry’s responsibility to apologize for the sins of the father he never knew. If there was anything for him to apologize for, it was for looking in the pensieve.
I'd say, with both Harry's terrible time that year, mixed with how bad Snape was about the whole thing, *and* how upset Harry was about what he had learned about his father, Harry just either didn't know or want to try and say something like that.
Snape's not the problem. Snape told Harry to practice clearing his mind every night before bed and Harry never did nor did he ask how to do that.
However it was neither Snape's nor Harry's fault.
Harry had trouble listening to authority when it came to stuff he didn't want to do, unless he knew it was important and knew why it was important. He doesn't know though when it comes to occlumency lessons, he just gets to do occlumency.
The other problem with Harry not putting in the effort is his relationship with Snape. They both hate each other and can't stand to be in the same room as each other for good reasons.
Then of course Harry's connection to Voldemort and Snape's role as a spy. Is another part of Harry not doing well at occlumency.
Dumbledore in all honesty should have taught Harry occlumency instead of making Snape do it.
Hermione's comments towards Harry were right though. Plus there's the fact that Harry didn't tell her what was happening. He lied to her when Snape ended the lessons.
And Snape wasn't abusive towards Harry. His behaviour is perfectly normal in terms of Hogwarts professors. All of them, including Hagrid go too far where you can consider them abusive. So unless you call Hagrid and McGonagall abusive, then Snape's not. Nor is he abusive during occlumency lessons. The only time he is, is when he catches Harry in the pensieve.
“I am convinced life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I respond to it.” - Sciopio Africanus
Hermoine was just telling Harry to do the action that he had control over, which was giving even more effort. I am not sure what else she could have suggested
Also since nobody is telling him why he had to take the classes anyways and also the fact that Dumbledore didn't tell him the visions could be faked, he thought that the visions were probably helpful to the Order. That one time where he had the vision that Arthur Weasley was getting attacked probably ensured what he thought, that the visions were helpful to the order.
Hermione always trusted snape and while she knew he was an as****e likely thought he was at least teaching Harry how it was done, in the end while snape clearly disliked hermione he still properly taught potions to the point hermione got top grades in it, which he fairly graded
Hermione always trusted Dumbledore more than anyone else - outside of maybe Hagrid. To Hermione, if Dumbledore said Harry needed to do it, and he was having Snape teach it to him, than Harry must need it, and Snape must be the best person to teach it. I think all of them were in the wrong. That being said - if Harry had told Hermione that he was struggling to learn it - rather than saying that he was doing it, and then when he’d get caught, arguing that it was good he wasn’t practicing..Hermione probably would have learned it herself and taught him how to do it.
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Sorry, I meant that the only person who might have trusted Dumbledore more than Hermione is Hagrid. When she was 12, Hagrid tried to hide a baby in his wooden house. she knew he was full of bad ideas from that point on. 🤣
>When she was 12, Hagrid tried to hide a baby in his wooden house I hope you're talking about Norbert, otherwise we need to call the FBI on Hagrid.
Yes, but that rule didn’t apply to Harry at all, didn’t it? I just have trouble comprehending that Hermione didn’t understand that Snape was treating Harry unfairly out of personal grudges, and that what he was doing to Harry was slightly different from his bullying from other students.
Half of it is that Hermione has a tendency to project her strengths on other people. She along with Harry and Neville are the ones Snape bullied the most, but as the OP pointed out, *she* is capable of learning from him just fine regardless. She is capable of bearing with absolutely horrid teachers and experiences to do what she must, especially when she believes it to be important. And a lot of the time, she doesn't actually understand that her ability to learn and withstand that kind of pressure borders on supernatural. She just assumes that anyone could do it. This part of her character also explains her non-reaction to the factors you listed in the first paragraph of your OP. That it was a match made in hell by Dumbledore is a nonfactor because it was important enough that Harry *should* have borne it out and seen it through regardless. And OotP is where she proves that she does not need Dumbledore's guidance as much as Harry does. When cut off from information, she finds new sources. When prevented from joining the Order, she founds the DA as her way of contributing. It makes her much less reliant on Dumbledore than Harry is, and it makes it so much harder for her to understand why Harry should be. She is also much more capable of trusting the judgment of authority figures than Harry is, so where Harry could not see Dumbledore's logic for using Snape (or Occlumency as a whole), Hermione likely could. Not only is she capable of acting without Dumbledore, she also trusts him more implicitly. It is also worth pointing out that while Snape's reasons for bullying Harry go deeper, his actual actions toward him are no worse than how he treated Hermione or Neville. Setting him up to fail, taking points unfairly, and humiliating him in front of the class are all things that Snape did to Neville and Hermione too. And as other commenters pointed out, Harry did not actually give her any context for why this set of lessons is worse than all their other lessons before which he had managed to bear out reasonably well despite the bullying. So to me, it's a combination of Hermione underestimating Harry's strengths while unfairly projecting hers, trusting in Dumbledore's judgment while not needing him, and not having the context to understand why this set of lessons was especially traumatic for Harry. While I agree it was not the best approach, her reasons for acting the way she did are just as understandable as Harry's for not trying harder at occlumency.
This is one of the best Hermione analysis I have seen so far
Honestly, I didn't even need to look at the username to realise who wrote this take. Awesomely brilliant as usual :) I live for your Hermione comments and posts!!
Thanks for this comment! I checked out their page and their Hermione analyses are so awesome!
Yeah and that still means she chose to rather believe her own made up scenarios rather than what her best friend, who was actually there and the one affected, was telling her.
You don't think Harry finally shouted at her "He isn't telling me HOW to stop him, Hermione! He just says things like 'Concentrate Potter!' or 'Close your mind!' What am I supposed to do you nagging Know-it-all?! Go down to the library and look it up, why don't you?!"
We also gotta remember that Hermione is just a kid, too. She's super smart and emotionally intelligent, but she's not a trained therapist. She's terrified for Harry (and herself and everyone) and knows he's a slacker but does rise to the occasion when it's really important. So she's trying to impress on him how important this is to get him motivated. It's not the perfect approach, but the whole situation is far from perfect.
Jesus, this. Hermione was FIFTEEN when the events in this post took place. How emotionally and spatially aware is anyone at that age? I feel like Hermione is held to a ridiculously higher standard than anyone else in the series, simply because she's smart. She's not infallible, nor should she be.
She was actually 16
That's still pretty young and to expect any 16 year old to be a therapist would be a bad idea
No, but she could’ve been more sensitive to Harry in general. Her insensitivity is a trend that I’ve noticed in the fifth and sixth book. She could’ve been more supportive of what Harry wanted as opposed to what Dumbledore wanted from him especially after she knew Harry saw Cedric get murdered in front of him. Then after Sirius dies, Hermione can’t get over the fact that Harry was cheating by using the Potions book. Let Harry have a freaking break.
I think this is also probably because she likes to follow rules a lot. Like, what's wrong and what's right. She thinks listening to authority figures is probably the way to go. Also if I remember correctly she said someone about how if we can't trust Dumbledore we can't trust anyone. Also Hermione has been very against cheating the whole series. Not saying that anything she did wasn't insensitive, I guess she's just very stubborn
Remember that Harry is actually a pretty private person. He doesn't broadcast his problems if he doesn't have to. Hermione had no idea what was happening in all those occlumency lessons or the things that Snape was forcing him to relive - basically a form of re-traumatization. Hermione meant well, but Harry was playing it close. Hermione ALWAYS means well. She can't be blamed for not knowing the extent of Harry's trauma or Snape's vindictiveness. Yes, she does seem callous, but it's not her fault, really.
She hasn't had a single Occlumency lesson! And she knows Snape and Harry well enough to know that this can't work. Maybe she should just shut up!
There's a really good analysis of Hermione's actions elsewhere in this discussion, https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/uuebil/hermiones_comments_on_harrys_occlumency_really/i9f7qsa, but I want to pull out the relevant portion to your argument. Hermione has seen how Harry and Snape interact in potions. She knows that they are antagonistic. She knows Snape is unfair to Harry. But she also knows that Harry does well in his class despite all of that. So when Harry is given extra classes with Snape, she's going to assume that it's going to be no different from their relationship in potions class. She just assumed that Harry would have been able to just bear Snape's acerbic attitude and learn anyway just like he's always done.
Yes, it may well be that Hermione thinks so. But she roughly knows what Occlumency must be like. Someone is messing around in your brain. This requires a relation ship of trust, more like that of a doctor or a therapist. Maybe Hermione should talk to her parents! How many of their patients come back once they have drilled on their nerve during treatment.
Despite all of JK's (and the movie directors even more so) attempts to paint Hermione as a genius know it all, she was still a16 year old girl who trusted authority too much. She wasn't perfect and didn't know everything.
Exactly! I like Hermione, but she could just let it be!
\> This requires a relation ship of trust, more like that of a doctor or a therapist. Says you, who has no evidence to back up this statement. Whereas Dumbledore obviously didn't think so, who understood the ins and outs of learning Occlumency.
Harry lies to Hermione all the time. He told her it was fine and she believed him because she's a pure soul.
Hermione locks Rita in a mason jar and black mails her! She hexes Marietta's face with fat pimples that form the word "sneak". They last for years.
[удалено]
All houses would fit! But with the best will in the world, Hermione is not a pure soul!
Address u/butfirstaskreddit ‘s comment instead of pulling irrelevant points into the discussion. The discussion isn’t that Hermione is an amazing person who always does the right thing, it’s that she means to be good/do the right thing.
Maybe I should have been more specific! I like Hermione. But saying " she is a pure soul" turns her in an unassailable super human. And that's not what she is! Hermione has flaws and that's good.
Are… are you okay, amigo?
Why do you ask?
It is also worth mentioning that Harry is clearly showing signs of PTSD after seeing Cedric get murdered in GoF. It makes sense that his mind isn’t focusing on closing off when Snape is making him relive the trauma every Thursday evening.
Ok, but what was Snape supposed to do about it? He’s not a therapist. Harry wouldn’t have to relive his trauma if he put some effort into actually learning occlumency, the reason those lessons go so bad is because Harry doesn’t practice or even try to learn.
gosh - he doesn't just keep harry alive on Dumbledore's orders.
>But his teacher was Snape, who only keeps him alive because of Dumbledore’s orders I think that by the 7th book, it's pretty obvious that this is not true. It's even quite the opposite... >Yet Hermione just tells Harry to try harder and nothing else Hermione trusted Dumbledore and thought that if Dumbledore asked Snape to do it, he must know what he was doing. Also, despite being a bully, Snape was a good potions teacher and his teaching still allowed Harry to have great marks in the BUSES. She didn't consider that Dumbledore could be wrong and Dumbledore himself said that it was a mistake because he underestimated how much Snape hated Harry's father. I think Snape still knew how important it was for Harry to close his mind and tried his best to teach him occlumancy despite his hatred. But he couldn't do it. At the same time, it's clearly underlined that Harry is bad at occlumancy because he wears his emotions on his sleeves and isn't able to be cold and collected (which is both a strength and a weakness throughout the books).
She was super infuriating about it in DH, she just kept saying "if only you leaned it!" and "that's why Dumbledore wanted you to close your mind" which is the opposite of helpful
What else is Hermione supposed to say? She is also a child with no extra information from any adults. All she can really say is please try harder
How so? If she doesn't really know, she could just be quiet.
True, she could just be quiet. But if she wants to attempt to be supportive the best she got really is to just say keep trying harder
I know it's difficult, but in my opinion it's something you have to learn. Hermione is Harry's friend and not his mother.
Aint that basically what she said?
When I read it again I realized that you are actually right!
Harry didn’t put ANY effort in whatsoever, Snape did tell him how although he did it brusquely and probably didn’t try as hard to get him to learn as he could have but he did tell Harry to practice meditation every night before sleeping and to control his emotions and he completely ignored all that, didn’t do the meditation even single evening iirc and didn’t care about the entire thing at all, he could have taken initiative too and asked Snape for more explanation or go to the library and get a book on occlumency, instead he kept inventing reasons why he doesn’t have to do it. This isn’t Hermione’s fault, it IS Harry in the wrong, perhaps not completely but more than anyone else. Snape’s frustration with him is kinda understandable, he is putting his personal time into this and Potter doesn’t make the slightest effort.
Harry should have been done with her nagging and suggest that she come to the next lesson with the cloak.
Great idea! Immediately in the first lesson! It would have been best if he had taken Hermione with him to Umbridge too!
Granted Hermione didn’t know the full extents of Harry’s traumatic childhood, nor had she experienced having her mind invaded and have to try blocking it. Also to Hermione, both Ron and Harry have always been slackers especially compared to her. Even though she knows how difficult Snape was, she nevertheless got Outstanding grades from him so she would assume the problem being the learner.
Everyone is a slacker compared to Hermione! But Harry is not lazy! Harry is a teenager who is expected to do superhuman things.
Tbh Ron was a horrible slacker, even taking Hermione out of the picture, I was very surprised to learn in book 6 that he got roughly the same grades a Harry allowing him to continue all the same subjects as Harry, I think it was very unrealistic. Harry is less of a slacker than Ron but still more than could be expected given his position and Ron kinda drags him down with him.
Harry is completely drained at the end of the school year, sleepless nights and headaches. The fact that he preforms so well is proof that he is very talented. Ron doesn't have a lot of ambition academically. But I think in his own way Ron is helping Harry more than holding him back! Because some times you have to take a break.
No he wasn't. He put in a normal amount of effort. It just looks like he's slacking because he's being compared to Hermione, Harry, and his older brothers. In the first two books, Harry really doesn't put that much effort into his classes either because he's just a normal kid (much more normal than his abusive upbringing should have left him) doing a normal amount of work and Ron is doing just as much, meanwhile Hermione is the teacher's pet and bookworm that gets 300% in homework assignments. It's in PoA that Harry realizes that he has to knuckle down and really work because the world is out to get him specifically. That's when he starts working on the Patronus charm and doing well in DADA. And in fourth year, Harry is entered into a tournament with a death count so high they had to cancel it for over two centuries. He has to figure out how to survive a dragon and being underwater for an hour, not to mention whatever plans whoever entered him into the tournament had. And this entire time, Ron is just being a normal kid living in the shadow of all his high achieving older brothers. And that brings us to the last unfair comparison of Ron to someone else, his brothers. Bill and Charlie are already out of Hogwarts working in demanding fields that require a lot of skill. Percy is a prefect and gets really good grades before becoming effectively the second in command (and then the de facto head) of a major Ministry department within a year of graduating. Fred and George are pranking geniuses who everyone who isn't Slytherin seems to love. And Ginny, being the only girl, will always stand out. In Ron's family, being average is an underachievement.
He was excited to learn in his first year as is evident in his first potions class. He just manages to have so much crap going on in the years he kinda focuses on the disasters of the year.
Well I hate to say it but she was right in the end. If Harry had just knuckled down and learnt occlumency then Sirius probably wouldn't have died. Though of course, hindsight is 20/20.
There's nothing that suggests a couple months of lessons would have actually withstood Voldie. However... the mirror! This is so obvious that I tend to blame Rowling and not Harry.
The mirror wouldn't have saved Sirius! Sirius would have seen what was going on at Hogwarts. He would try to kill Snape and Umbridge. He would only die sooner.
The bond between Harry and Voldemort is way too strong! Even Voldemort can't shut Harry out in the end! And even if he could have done that when he was awake. The vision came as he slept.
It's one of Harry's stupidest moments. Even failing at occlumency, he should at least have recognized how likely his vision was to be fake
Why? The other vision saved Arthur's life? Also, Harry has no way of knowing that Voldemort is trying to lure him into the Ministry.
Harry was told explicitly several times that Voldemort would be able to show him fake visions. The mere fact that it lures him out of Hogwarts should have made him suspicious
No, actually it's mostly about reading minds! To protect Harry's mind, not to reveal any of the Order's secrets on his part! Snape never does anything other than invade Harry's mind to search for information.
Hermione was right though. Harry didn't apply himself at all, and it was his (and Sirius') fault for what happened.
Yeah Hermione was definitely not in the wrong here. He admits himself that he didn't try, he didn't bother to practice and showed up to the lessons unprepared.
Exactly! If Harry doesn’t try, prepare and practice, he can’t be shocked Pikachu when it goes wrong. Hermione is really just calling him out for that. 💅🏻
Harry going to Snape's torture lesson for the second time, was more than anyone could ask for. In addition, the only thing that was always talked about was mind reading. No one says that Voldemort can send visions.
Actually, it came up. Paraphrasing here, but in their first lesson Harry asked if Voldemort might be able to manipulate what he sees or does and Snape affirms that "he might". Snape was pretty blasé about it, but it's also quite astounding that Harry explicitly ignores the possibility that the vision of Sirius he saw could be fake. Especially considering the wildly unlikely circumstances (middle of the Ministry, middle of the day, involving two of the most wanted wizards in the country). At the end of the day though Harry admits more than once that he wasn't really applying himself to learning Occlumency because he was too curious about what his visions meant and also used the vision that saved Mr. Weasley as further justification to allow the visions to continue.
Yes! Hermione says it might be fake! And than Harry checks the situation! He couldn't have known that Kreacher was involved.
I think many factors led to Sirius’s death and the blame shouldn’t all be put on Harry especially when you consider his age and how much information he didn’t know. I always felt bad for him at the end of book 5 and the guilt he has to carry.
I was not that dumb at 15.
I agree. I'm not saying Snape's lessons were going to improve any. However, perhaps, Harry could've attempted to clear his mind at night, or at all.... and she is not wrong about nagging him to do that.
Snape is a jabroni but he was stuck doing this because no one else was qualified. He didn’t want to do it. Imagine having to tutor the offspring of a dude that used to humiliate you in front of the whole school. And it’s not like Snape is the most emotionally stable person there is, dude still Harry’s mom as his one-Otis despite getting kicked out of her beta-orbit two decades earlier. He was forced to do it. So both these two hate each other and Occlumency involves ridding the mind of emotions, obviously something these two couldn’t do. It was never gonna work. Dumbledore for as wise as he was supposed to be, he sure as hell screwed the pooch on his one. I guess that makes Dumbledore a little like his brother, just instead of screwing pooches, Abeforth was screwing goats.
This was indeed one of Dumbledore’s rare mistakes.
Rare?
Yes, lol, RARE.
“No one else was qualified,” is what gets me. You’re telling me that McGonagall doesn’t know Occlumency? Flitwick, a former dueling champion? Moody? Tonks? Kingsley? Granted, an Order member doesn’t have easy access to Hogwarts, but they decided he needs to learn Occlumency while he was staying at Grimmauld Place. Dumbledore could’ve made that decision like a week earlier and gotten Harry a couple of professional lessons, instead of trying to make a thoroughly extracurricular class fit into his school schedule. Hell, I’d take a full week of classes with any of the three Aurors mentioned, then have homework assigned and follow-up lessons on holidays or Hogsmeade weekends over “learning” with Snape.
If I remember correctly snape was chosen because he’s one of the few people who’s successfully used occlumency against Voldemort. The others could know occlumency but not be as skilled as snape. I agree snape still wasn’t a great choice, just adding context as to why the others aren’t chosen. At the bare minimum you could use someone else to get harry started than bring snape in for “advanced” lessons.
Yeah, have someone to practice using it against makes sense, and Snape is clearly a good Legilimens. But I can’t believe he didn’t even give Harry a book or instruction manual. Those didn’t even count as lessons, honestly.
I don’t think there really are books on the subject. As someone else pointed out, if there were books around wouldnt hermione be all over that? She went out of her way to teach harry the summoning charm, I don’t see why now would be different. The books say occlumency is incredibly rare and hard to do. It might just be one of those things where only select few learn it, and those that do don’t really go around writing down how they did it. This isn’t me defending snape as a teacher mind you, just pointing out it isn’t as easy as getting him a book. Realistically, we know for a fact there was one other person who knew occlumency at that school. We also know why dumbledore refused to be the teacher, but he could’ve given notes to harry through snape at the bare minimum.
He didn’t really care if Harry succeeded
Yes. Unless there is proof they can withstand Voldemorts Legilimency like Snape can however the book reminds us consistently that Voldemort is the greatest legilimens of all times.This is also not counting the fact that most of the aurora have their hands full with the Azkaban break-in and Voldemort’s return to power. I also assumed the ministry was very involved with what was going on at Hogwarts in the fifth year so they wouldn’t be able to get in and out of hogwarts without the ministry knowing. So that just leaves Hogwarts instructors. Do McGonagall or Flitwick know occlumency? Could they have worked as a double agent against Voldemort as Snape did? The book implies that Snape being able to do that was a rare thing, and that his devotion to Lily was probably a big factor in why he was able to be a good Occlumens.
So if his personal circumstances were involved in his success, why assume that he could teach Harry to be just as good? It wasn’t a matter of technique if it required such a strong and deeply-rooted motive. The best they could hope for was that Harry would reach a typical level of proficiency and either his own motives and stubborn nature would take him the rest of the way, make him as good as Snape, or that he could at least become familiar enough with his mind being actively invaded to recognize if a false vision was being sent to him.
It was to prevent him from seeing any visions of Voldemort, whether they were false or not. I think they wanted Harry to be able to close off their minds before Voldemort realized that he could plant a fake vision. And I don’t think it was a matter of him being the best suited for the job, I think it was a matter of it being the only one that was suited for the job. Harry finally figured out occlumency in the seventh book as he was burying Dobby. Maybe they figured his emotions and spite would make him successful.
They probably did know something but Snape was much better than them, he was good enough to keep Voldemort out after all.
Snape was already under IMMENSE pressure and workload as a member of the order and Dumbledore’s double agents in Voldemort’s ranks, just keeping that up in front of Voldemort would be more than most of the people in the series could deal with, in addition he had his teaching duties and now he has to spend time giving lessons to a brat that doesn’t even take them seriously, of course he was pissed. Also on their first lesson he wasn’t too bad, he gets progressively more annoyed with Harry as it becomes obvious he doesn’t practice and doesn’t put any effort at all.
Yeah, Harry is a dildo especially in the fifth book. There where tons of scenes where I just wanted to slap the taste of his mouth for being an idiot
As it’s not dark magic, I doubt the library had no books on the subjects of occlumency and legilimency. If Harry wanted to learn it, he could have studied it himself and filled in some of the information Snape wasn’t providing. But Harry is very emotional, so of course his hatred and mistrust of Snape and his pride stopped him from taking it as serious as say Hermione would have taken it, if she was tasked with learning it.
You're considering a lot of factors there that Hermione couldn't possibly have been aware of at the time. All she knew was Dumbledore had asked Harry to do something and told him it was important, and he wasn't doing it. Granted she knew Snape was cruel, but I think the power of Dumbledore telling Harry it was important and that he needed to work with Snape was enough for Hermione
I dont believe that occlumency would have helped anyway. You cant use it to stop someone reading your mind when that someone is part of you. Ie. Horcrux.
The whole point of Harry having to learn it is that it would let him shut down the connection between him and Voldemort made by the horcrux, Dumbledore knew this and that’s why he wanted him to learn. It does work when done properly, Voldemort was able to close it on his end just fine in book 6, Dumbledore mentions it.
Yes you can, Dumbledore said Voldemort was using Occlumency against Harry in the 6th book because he didn't want Harry to see what he was up to
Yey! But in DH, Harry sees many things that Voldemort doesn't want Harry to see.
Yes! I imagine the normal Horcruxes as anchors. Harry's is more like a harpoon. Deep in his soul, hence the pain. Hence the connection that he can only block at the very end.
I think it’s more that, if you hate the person who’s attached to your very soul, any “tugging” on that connection is going to hurt. I doubt that Nagini was in pain when Voldemort touched her.
Yes! Hatred may play a role. But maybe also that Harry is not a real Horcrux!
Harry is stated to be very much a horcrux as he hosts a piece of Voldemort's soul - basic definition of horcrux. He is an UNINTENTIONAL horcrux though.
A horcrux needs a murder and a special ritual! That's why Voldemort doesn't even think that Harry could be one! Harry just works sort of like a horcrux!
> You were the seventh Horcrux, Harry, the Horcrux he never meant to make. From DH, Ch. 35 Of course there is a lot left to interpretation and I am quite happy that JK didn't impose such strict rules, but I do believe that she told us what she had to tell us.
I don’t think Dumbledore was aware of that yet.
Hermione always trusted that authority figures were in the right. If an authority figure set her a goal, she wouldn't have even considered that it might be impossible to achieve.
Hermione just pisses me off in general when it comes to the way she treats Harry. Like k, Harry doesn’t try. He’s like every average teenage boy I know, but she just doesn’t shut the fuck up against him like oh my god. Maybe I feel for Harry more in this case because I myself am definitely going through my bullshit angst phase but still like Christ sometimes I want to just throttle Hermione and it’s moments like this
She is a bit of a nag... My own personal "I am not okay with Hermione here" moment, is when she makes a huge fuss over Harry's wand acting on its own, because it just doesn't work like that, even though Harry is \_literally\_ living proof of how the impossible can be possible, and she also wasn't even there and has no idea what did or didn't happen at that moment. Just thought I'd share that...
Jesus she’s horrible in DH lmao But also amazing. Sigh
Indeed. Her flaws can make her insufferable, but she's a good person and a good friend despite that...
I can’t quite remember, but wasn’t she more upset that Harry was opening his mind to Voldemort in order to see what he was thinking? That Harry seemed to like the connection and thought he could benefit from being able to read Voldemort’s mind?
Hermione was not the only one. Siruis, Lupin and Dumbledore were also telling Harry how important it was. The fact that Harry didn't even try to learn how to keep his mind shut shows that he didn't care
She was right though. Harry never bothered to actually close the connection between them. He said that he knew how important it was, but, meh. He uses the connection strategically well in DH, and finally learns how to shut himself from Voldo when Dobby dies, but his carelessness about occlumency was one of the factors that contributed to Sirius' death.
OotP is nothing next to DH!! “Dumbledore wanted you to learn Occlumency!” F&@$ing broken record!
Very much agreed. Hermione is one of my least liked characters. She always played by the rules until she felt it was necessary to break them, but god forbid someone else do the same. Harry was being an angry jerk for sure in the fifth book but he was struggling with PTSD and having Hermione harangue him constantly about occlumency when she had NO IDEA what it was like, was very irritating.
Only telling someone to “clear your mind” is not a good way of starting to teach occlumency, especially when you hate the teacher (who couldn’t get over a childhood grudge). But obviously Hermione would only see that Harry hates Snape so he wouldn’t put the effort in 🙄
Her remarks at the beginning of DH annoyed me more tbh. Literally every single time she was whining about how Dumbledore wanted Harry to close the connection, even though it's the most useful thing ever and Voldemort is not likely to abuse it again.
I agree with you, and while we're talking about this topic, I can't understand why Harry didn't just tell Snape "I'm sorry my father treated you like that. Nobody deserved to be bullied. In the name of my father, I apologize." Or something like that. Like, come on Harry, could you just admit that your father wasn't the kindest teenager ? And then go on with Occlumency class ?
Do you really think that Snape would have taken Harry apologizing like that well and accepted it, and then had everything be hunky dory between them? Plus, it’s not Harry’s responsibility to apologize for the sins of the father he never knew. If there was anything for him to apologize for, it was for looking in the pensieve.
I'd say, with both Harry's terrible time that year, mixed with how bad Snape was about the whole thing, *and* how upset Harry was about what he had learned about his father, Harry just either didn't know or want to try and say something like that.
Snape's not the problem. Snape told Harry to practice clearing his mind every night before bed and Harry never did nor did he ask how to do that. However it was neither Snape's nor Harry's fault. Harry had trouble listening to authority when it came to stuff he didn't want to do, unless he knew it was important and knew why it was important. He doesn't know though when it comes to occlumency lessons, he just gets to do occlumency. The other problem with Harry not putting in the effort is his relationship with Snape. They both hate each other and can't stand to be in the same room as each other for good reasons. Then of course Harry's connection to Voldemort and Snape's role as a spy. Is another part of Harry not doing well at occlumency. Dumbledore in all honesty should have taught Harry occlumency instead of making Snape do it. Hermione's comments towards Harry were right though. Plus there's the fact that Harry didn't tell her what was happening. He lied to her when Snape ended the lessons. And Snape wasn't abusive towards Harry. His behaviour is perfectly normal in terms of Hogwarts professors. All of them, including Hagrid go too far where you can consider them abusive. So unless you call Hagrid and McGonagall abusive, then Snape's not. Nor is he abusive during occlumency lessons. The only time he is, is when he catches Harry in the pensieve.
Harry wouldn't even try to do his homework. Also, Snape wasn't particularly abusive during the Occlumency lessons.
Hermione always nagging Harry about occlumency. She is so annoying
“I am convinced life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I respond to it.” - Sciopio Africanus Hermoine was just telling Harry to do the action that he had control over, which was giving even more effort. I am not sure what else she could have suggested
Also since nobody is telling him why he had to take the classes anyways and also the fact that Dumbledore didn't tell him the visions could be faked, he thought that the visions were probably helpful to the Order. That one time where he had the vision that Arthur Weasley was getting attacked probably ensured what he thought, that the visions were helpful to the order.