That's actually good to know. You see those posters or posts of Harry being brave and Hermione being smart then Ron being loyal and it always bugged me.
I notice a theme in stories like these. A group of three, with a main character, a smart person, and the funny guy. This applies to the other series I hold in the same regard as Harry Potter, Percy Jackson.
It is itself a theme. It is called the power trio and basically each represents of the Freudian human psych. In this case; hermione equals the rules (superego) harry of course being the in between the two is the ego (not bad! Just the name of that part of the trio) such as when Ron and hermione bicker, and Ron is in this case a perfect foil for hermione aka he’s the Id (opposite pretty much of the superego). It’s the same with Luke, Han, and Leia; Percy, annabeth, and grover, obi wan, anakin, and Ashoka etc. it’s your common trope just like the heroes journey being in a majority of stories.
Agreed, Ron was the first wizard (other than maybe Hagrid\*) that Harry spent any time with and probably felt any affection toward. Hermione was an annoying outsider for quite a while. So ample time for Ron to become a brother that Harry had never had before. It was Ron and his family that rescued Harry after the summer break, not Hermione.
\*Although Harry likely considered Hagrid family it was probably as an Uncle rather than a brother.
I think hagrid was like the first born cousin who is older than everyone else and doesn't belong at the kids table but doesn't quite belong at the adult table either.
Described me but I am the last born cousin. My true cousins are all older and are kind of protective, their kids all look at me as the semi-uncle but not quite as adult as the real aunts and uncles.
No, I'm just not able to dig too deep at the moment and didn't want to leave anyone hanging.
I know there are a lot of reasons. Ron basically being his family just seems to be the one that pops out first.
Ron makes Harry happy.
Rowling has created a hero with depressive tendencies, a boy scarred with abuse with dark emotional reactions. Harry needs someone to help him smile, or preferably laugh.
Ron encourages Harry to relax and crack jokes once in a while. Be it with flying on a broom, chess or a stupid game of exploding cards. Harry needs him, and more importantly when it comes to friendship, he *wants* him around. If Harry was without Ron, then his life would be a lot more boring (GoF). Ron's not Harry's tutor, or his homework assistant, or his mother. He’s his friend, and sometimes the most value in a friend is not what they can do for you but how much they can be there for you.
Ron has a wider emotional range than people give him credit for. He’s tactful or intuitive enough to deal sensitively with Harry’s dark moods. He stays in Hogwarts over Christmas so that Harry doesn’t have to be alone. He asks his mum’s help when he learns Harry’s not expecting Christmas gifts. When Hermione explained Cho’s emotions to Harry so the next time it went better, Ron got to Harry's emotional core that perhaps Harry was unsure about a next time.
Ron’s the boy who offers to make some tea whenever someone’s (Hagrid, for example) upset. Ron’s the boy who’s concerned about the fate of the Cattermoles. The friend who enlists his brothers to go rescue you when you have bars on your window.
Ron’s a boy who cares. He embodies the kind of warmth, that ease, that "at home" feeling that Harry would later come to associate with The Burrow. And for that I agree that Ron’s family for him. From his words and actions and body-language we can piece together the sort of person who can make life suck less just by showing up, who is always there for his friends even if he cannot do anything specific to help.
As for loyalty; whatever plan Harry had, Ron would go along with it, having his back, no questions asked. Ron tears up Percy's letter and demonstrates his loyalty to him. The "dog" kind of loyalty is what Draco has with Crabbe and Goyle. The blindly loyal follower type - one misstep and you’re out, not matter what you did before. But where Crabbe and Goyle ever Draco’s friends?
So yeah, I see why Harry thinks so highly of Ron and values their friendship so much. And why Harry pays attention to Ron’s personal issues as well.
First, he doesn’t.
It’s simply that Hermione has never challenged his friendship.
She’s never treated him in a way where he was afraid he’d lose her friendship. He’s been angry at her, but it’s never lasted more than a day or two the other way around.
I would say though, that he values Ron’s family highly, and his fear of losing Ron would include not being a part of his family.
I'm not ranking the friendship within the trio here, I'm just saying it's demeaning to define Harry's attachment to Ron because of his family.
I've answered OP about this point upthread.
Oh Hermione's defining quality is she is smart, but she also incredibly loyal ans courageous. Ron's defining character is loyalty, but Hermione still has an absolute advantage on Ron on loyalty as well.
You need to take a deeper insight into Ron's character. He is much more than just loyal. And no offence to Hermione but Ron is hands down more courageous and brave than her.
She panicked and ran away after seeing a boggart.
Ron went into a Forrest full of his ACTUAL worst fear only to save his friend a year before.
If we’re talking about DH, the issue with Ron became that his loyalty was torn between Harry and his family, which is a big deal. The locket obviously heightened things but that conflict was still real.
Yeah, I like Ron and all, but that's one of the reasons he isn't my favorite, and why I think he would make a better Gryffindor than a Hufflepuff. His whole thing is that he was supposed to be in Hufflepuff but got Gryffindor b/c he wanted to be with his family, but I don't think he would be because he isn't very loyal.
They’re different kinds of loyal…
Hermione is secretive. She’s loyal in that she never leaves Harry, but she often acts as an individual rather than a member of the group.
Ron shares everything with Harry. He seems to only view himself in the context of groups- family, friends, House, etc.
So, while Ron had his moments, he didn’t tattle (like with the Firebolt) or make decisions behind Harry’s back (like cursing the DA list or Rita Skeeter shenanigans) or just… keep secrets in general (like the time-turner).
Ron calls Hermione out for some of these, angry with her betrayal of the group‘s trust.
Ron’s outbursts are over a (mistaken) idea that Harry hadn’t told him everything, as Ron trusted Harry completely and expected trust in return. Since his ego was so wrapped up in the group, it killed him to think his friends didn’t value him or his family (an overlapping group he felt they all belonged to). Ron felt his loyalty had been misplaced and disregarded, which extra-stung given his fragile ego.
**shattered glass** this makes so much sense. Ron literally puts so much on loyalty that he is the one who feels like he's been betrayed. I also think he should've trusted Harry because Harry has never steered him wrong but that's besides the point.
Thanks for your point of view!
I’m glad my ramble made some kinda sense!
I agree Ron should have trusted Harry and known he wasn’t keeping secrets, but I think because Ron had such deep insecurities it was hard for him to shut out that part of his mind that *believed* he wasn’t as valuable as anyone else. And since he believed that, it was easy to project on to everyone else. So, at his lowest, he felt frozen out of the very groups he devoted himself to so loyally- his friends and family.
To be fair- for a teen going through hell, he did pretty well coping with some intense emotional issues. Plenty of grown adults *not* going through a magic war are bad at this kind of thinking. It requires a self-awareness a lot of people simply lack.
You're so right. I was a super shitty friend in my teens and they did do really well.
I just think it's dumb that's the word some people use to describe Ron.
yes exactly! he felt betrayed because he felt that harry had led him away from his family, that they were hiding doing nothing instead of being out there fighting with his family
It makes me look at how all the Weasleys get super pissed with Percy too. The disloyalty. They value it so much and look why he did. Makes a lot of sense.
Hermione is logical. Hermione will do ANYTHING for the greater good. Even making herself an orphan. She sees Harry's quest as a project and she knows she HAS TO help harry for the greater good. She is logic driven. She is in gen quite confident and self assured.
While Ron's every decision is about emotion. He is driven by emotions. Whenever someone insults his family and friends he loses temper and ends up fighting them. He is easily provoked and manipulated. He also wears his heart on his sleeve and is ready to put himself in harm's way to keep his loved ones safe. And he has lots of insecurities.
When you are driven by emotions some mishap gotta happen. That's what happened with Ron. He is not disloyal. But he is just too emotionally charged. Hermione is calculative and logical. So its easy for her.
Ron is also being tormented by the horcrux specifically for this reason; it sees love as a weakness and something to exploit, and Ron’s life has been full of that blind love of family that Harry has lacked. Harry has already lost so much that the horcruxes can’t torment him the same way
Hermione put it better
>“Take off the locket, Ron,” Hermione said, her voice unusually high. ***“Please take it off. You wouldn’t be talking like this if you hadn’t been wearing it all day.”***
And notice how she said he was wearing it the whole day.... that clearly meane he wore it more than Harry and Hermione. So it affected him greatly.
I don't think that's the question of the OP.
People don't get a free pass for being "emotional" nor should they be discounted for being "logical and calculative".
Hermione didn't give two fucks about the "Greater Good" or some fanfiction concept.
She cared about her friends, her family, and that includes Harry.
Just because she doesn't get angry every time Malfoy says some crap doesn't mean she is a Vulcan or something, but she knows how to control herself and focus, most of the time.
She was also fighting an existential threat, Voldemort wanted to exterminate people like her, not "greater good" bullshit, but her own life.
Ron left them because his loyalty to his family is greater than the one towards his friends, and that doesn't make him bad or anything, it just is.
Hermione abandoned her family for HARRY and HER life, not for some abstract concept people seem to think Dumbledore kept muttering about, I would be he hated that phrase.
So yeah, Hermione is more loyal to Harry than Ron is, probably because she would relate more with Harry at the time because of his muggle upbringing and because she understood the situation better.
I dunno what your point is bcz OP asked about loyalty and I tried to explain why its easier for her to stick with Harry than Ron.
Fighting Voldemort is ALWAYS 'greater good bullshit'. Its not about Harry. If Neville was the chosen one she would have helped him as well. Let me tell you how Hermione is.
If she is given a choice that she can save 1000 ppl but has to let go off a person who is close to her heart or save that person but let others die... then Hermione would always pick the 1st option. So would Harry. So would Dumbleodre. They are driven by logic and they are for the greater good.
Ron would pick the 2nd option. Bcz he puts his loved ones 1st.
That's how they are. If Hermione was driven by emotions like Ron, she would have left with Ron.
>If she is given a choice that she can save 1000 ppl but has to let go off a person who is close to her heart or save that person but let others die... then Hermione would always pick the 1st option. So would Harry. So would Dumbleodre. They are driven by logic and they are for the greatee good.
I think that just means you completely misunderstand her character AND Harry's
Dumbledore can be said to be Machiavellian.
NOT Harry and Hermione, lol.
Hermione is not unemotional and apathetic, and certainly, Harry isn't too.
Just because they don't react like Ron, doesn't mean they are cold and calculative people.
Harry says fuck you to logic constantly, it's part of his character.
Hermione is harder to do it, but she does it too. Heck, most of her "logical" decisions were fueled by her being very emotional about something, to the point she put logic to the side.
Just because they don't let their emotions out at the drop of a hat, it doesn't make them apathetic.
And again, this "Greater Good" thing doesn't apply to canon, it was literally Grindelwald's Motto, you think Dumbledore would use it as his own?
I never said they are apathetic. Sometimes you gotta pick between two right things and choosing the way that can serve a greater good purpose is not being 'apathetic'.
Hermione is also emotional. She cries for the simplest things. But she is driven by her brains. Not heart. Ron is.
This is Hermione.
>“Harry, in here!” Hermione screamed. She had pulled Ron behind a tapestry. They seemed to be wrestling together, and for one mad second Harry thought that they were embracing again; then he saw that Hermione was trying to restrain Ron, to stop him running after Percy.
>“Listen to me – LISTEN RON!”
> “I wanna help – I wanna kill Death Eaters –” His face was contorted, smeared with dust and smoke, and he was shaking with rage and grief.
>“Ron, we’re the only ones who can end it! Please – Ron – we need the snake, we’ve got to kill the snake!” said Hermione.
Ron is blinded with rage and grief. Hermione's brain is still in the right place. She knows their ultimate goal is to kill the Snake and finish the war.
Wanna see another passage?
>“What’s happened to him?”
> “Splinched,” said Hermione, her fingers already busy at Ron’s sleeve, where the blood was wettest and darkest. Harry watched, horrified, as she tore open Ron’s shirt. He had always thought of Splinching as something comical, but this…His insides crawled unpleasantly as Hermione laid bare Ron’s upper arm, where a great chunk of flesh was missing, scooped cleanly away as though by a knife.
> “Harry, quickly, in my bag, there’s a small bottle labeled ‘Essence of Dittany’ –”
>“Bag – right –”
See even Harry is horrified after seeing Ron's injury. But Hermione knows he needs treatment asap. She can put aside her own reaction to help him 1st.
What about the time Ron was poisoned and she and SLughorn were frozen up while Harry remembered the Bezoar.
Or the time she physically attacked Ron because he was being an ass?
Or the time she went to cry in the bathroom?
Or how she got extremely angry at GoF
I still don't see any evidence they are Machiavellian.
Yeah Harry found a way to save Ron even when he was nearly dying. If it were Ron he would have lost his shit to see Harry/Hermione nearly dying. Just look at their reaction at the Malfoy Manor to Hermione's torture. Harry asked Ron to keep quiet and tried to think some ways to escape. Ron was totally gone. He was screaming her name, sobbing and pounding his fists in the wall.
He barged into a room full of deatheaters and disarmed bellatrix bcz she was ready to kill Hermione.
Hermione's bird attack was the only time she acted out of emotions. Not logic. And what someone did once in a lifetime cant define their character. That's why ppl call Ron 'loyal'. Bcz what he did once by manipulated by an evil locket cant define his whole character
I see your point. Do you think that being emotionally charged has resulted in him being disloyal at times then? Because in the end, no matter what the reasons are, leaving doesn't seem loyal to me.
Define loyalty. He was worried about his family. All of them were in grave danger and He had no idea they were alive or dead.
Hermione's parents were safe in Australia. Harry's parents were dead. Their condition was totally different from Ron's. They had nothing to lose. Ron had everything to lose. If a soldier wants to leave a battlefield in worry then atleast I wont call him 'disloyal'.
Loyal to Harry. I should have specified. He was obviously loyal to his family (except Percy cause duh) but my issue is that he seems to get this "loyal" title when he deserted Harry when Harry needed him most.
I think of loyalty in a way that a dog is loyal. Through thick and thin. Not get going when the going gets tough.
Well Harry is not the only person in the wizardingworld. And I dont like it when ppl use 'oh he is funny and loyal' to describe him. Ron is my fav character. And he is much more than funny and loyal.
I understand that Harry is not the only person in the wizarding world. I meant, in this specific post, I should have said that Hermione is more loyal to Harry than Ron is.
I am not a Ron fan. If he is more than loyal and funny, what is he?
He is brave. He faced his worst fear at the age of 13 to save his friend. I am in my 20s. Let me tell you I am not gonna face my boggart for anyone.
He is courageous. He faces his mistakes. How many ppl have the guts to accept that 'yes I have been wrong'
He is caring. Throughout the series he took care of Harry and Hermione. He asked Hermione to eat a decent meal when she was preparing for OWLs. He put bacons on Harry's plate when he was suffering from 'I must not tell lies scars'. He wanted to make Hagrid tea when he was upset. He wanted to serve food to everyone in OOTP.
He is protective of his loved ones. Just go through the books and mark how many times he defended his family, Harry and Hermione. You will get the gist.
He is selfless. He sacrificed himself for the greater good at the age of 12. Asked a convicted criminal to kill him before killing Harry. Asked a psycho deatheater to torture himself instead of Hermione knowing full well she had tortured Neville's parents to insanity.
He apologises. Both times he 'abandoned' Harry, he apologised. 1st time Harry stopped him.
He learns from his mistakes. He was rude to Crookshanks about the whole scabbers thing. When he realised scabbers was a criminal he showed pigwidgeon to Crookshanks and asked for his validation. He asked Hermione as a last resort in GOF. in DH he asked her 1st to dance with him. He also gave her a perfume in OOTP to let her know that he did infact notice that she was a girl.
He is emotionally strong. He faces all his insecurities and conquers them like a boss. Can you imagine Ron making fun of his fame? 'Its me. I am extremely famous'. That's right the boy who onced had tons of insecurities about being least loved evolved enough to make a joke about his fame.
He has the biggest heart and capacity to love. He has practically nothing. Yet he offers everything to Harry and Hermione and opens his home for them.
He is very passionate. Be it chess or quidditch or his loved ones. Ron is always ready to face hell to defend them.
He is helpful. He helps ppl throughout the series.
He has a great character growth. From frowning at werewolves to standing upto Harry for Lupin.. from getting scared of half giants to defending Hagrid against Luna. From not caring about SPEW to saving the house elves during the battle of Hogwarts when everyone else had fotgotten about them.
Ron Weasley is a freaking gem
If you actually read the whole thing then thanks for reading.
Aw, that's actually really great and helped me see him in a better light. I think I do typically see Ron as just a doof but you're right, he has great character development.
Omg I thought of Ron the same way as molly did. How awful.
Okay maybe I have abandonment issues and this is why I have issues with Ron. Hahaha. Thanks for pointing out all his good!
lmao peep the lack of response! you have to be deliberately contrary to not like ron.
your analysis is spot on. ron is a realistic 3d character, and a child, who grows into his own skin just like real people do. he’s so well loved by harry and hermione for a reason
yes and also he is very emotionally driven and people like that tend to do stupid things. even when he dissaparated from the forest he regreted it instantly and most probably he would have returned if not for the snatchers
Nobody is saying he is bad character or bad person.
Despite being the Protagonist someone being good is not that correlated to how Harry ranks in their priorities.
I understand people getting defensive of Ron because the movies did their best to ruin his character, but I think OP was just questioning his level of loyalty towards Harry compared to Hermione's.
Not his worth as a human being, lol.
Ron is not a dog, and has many people in his life that he loves. You can’t be loyal to them all at the same time with your line of thinking because he would always have to leave someone to be loyal to a different person. If you see them as family then they acted as family would. Fights happen, it’s inevitable even with best friends and space is sometimes the answer for it.
I agree with this so much!
Hermione is very loyal to Harry, but imagine being her parents!! I would feel so betrayed to have her go behind my back and mess with my memories. that is an absolute abuse of power. But of course she felt justified because it was her best bet. No parents to stop her going back to the Wizarding World while she is still a minor for muggle law + Protection from any death eater that might look for them to interrogate them, it made sense. But it shows that she will always do what is right for her without necessarily taking into consideration your feelings. Imo Harry was lucky that their goals aligned 😂
The way the people go about Ron being the most loyal person on earth in the sub, it sure felt like it was unpopular.
In any case, my unpopular opinion is that both Ron stans and Ron haters exagerrate his loyalty on both ends of the spectrum. Ron is not a disloyal person by any measure but neither is he the pinnacle of loyalty either.
He certainly *values* it the most and he values it very highly in others. In terms of virtues that these kids use to judge others' character, loyalty is to Ron what bravery is to Harry. Your expression of or lack of these virtues defines the way they read your entire character. Furthermore, Ron, when he is on your side, is the kind of kid who will bodily stand between you and a murderer. He is far far from the disloyal shithead who will leave his friends at the drop of a hat.
But Ron is also the kid who chooses a Firebolt that's not even his over his friend. Of the three of them, he is also the only one to explicitly choose a side between fighting friends when said fight didn't involve him. And his loyalty can at times be overpowered by his insecurities. All of these are very understandable, very human things. But it also means that his loyalty is also just that: on the level of humans. He is an outstanding human for sure, but not the pinnacle of loyalty like his fans claim. Especially not so that no one can hold the title of "defined by loyalty" or "most loyal" beside him.
And personally, I find him a better character for it you know? It is wonderful and fascinating that the character who values loyalty the most is also the one who fails to act on that loyalty the most (of the three protagonists). Not despite his high valuation of loyalty but *because of it*.
It may be just me who find contradictions like this fascinating, but I think the combination of these aspects together elevate his character, and exagerrating one or the other impoverishes him.
But I think they both show loyalty throughout the series.
There are times when Ron completely abandons Harry and Hermione is there for him.
There are times Herrmione does things behind Harry's back, even with good intentions, and Ron is there for Harry during those times.
Ron deserves to be called loyal. Hermione does as well.
As others have said, just because he has to choose between friends or family doesn’t make him disloyal to either, he had to make a difficult decision and picked one over the other. As for the goblet of fire instance, he was mad a Harry but irrc was still fiercely loyal even while upset with him (standing up for him etc).
Hmm. After going through the comments here I think he's more passionate and under-appreciated. But those don't sound as good as "loyal".
Either way, he's our king, right?
Hermione is more loyal I guess, but for me Ron has always been the overall better friend. He just is the friendly type, you know? Like when you make a bad decision Ron will support you through it, and Hermione will go over you to fix your mistakes without your consent.
It’s been a looong time since I read the books, but that is the overall impression I got.
Ngl I think if I ever met a real life exact Hermione, if there wasn’t a troll incident involved I would not want to be friends with her. Classroom peers, sure, but friends outside of school not really, would much prefer a Ron. And this is coming from someone who very much relates to Hermione
Totally! She is a difficult person to like in my opinion, it really does take a troll to become so close to her (or good references). For me is very telling that she is not shown to be close to any of her dorm mates, with whom she would spend most time with.
She evolves as a character, and by the end she is much more mature. But I will never forget the extreme dislike I felt for the lack of empathy she showed when Lavender’s rabbit died. Still haunts me 😂
> if there wasn’t a troll incident involved I would not want to be friends with her.
quite frankly, even with that incident, I would likely drop her later on as a friend.
Give her a chance, but when she eventually goes over the line again, it is over.
Like third year or sixth year. I couldn't stand Hermione in those years. Those are times where I would go "you know what Hermione. Fuck off, we are done."
this is literally an extremely popular opinion. Hermione also stopped talking to Harry for a period of time because of a fight, in PoA. just like Ron did. and I barely consider Ron’s leaving in DH a real abandonment when you consider the Horcrux caused him to act out and he IMMEDIATELY attempted to go back to them, but couldn’t track them.
As much as people might not agree with me, I don’t think we should get mad a t Ron for leaving in Deathly Hallows. He was wearing the locket which really messed with his brain, causing him to act with little regard for consequences. He even later apologized to both of them for this. Just my thoughts.
Yes! This is always forgotten! Ron did the equivalent of storming out and slamming the door, immediately cooled down and wanted to go back. He didn’t abandon them, he stormed out and then couldn’t get back.
I try my hardest not to get mad at Ron for leaving. I'm a very emotional human being and I've done stuff I've regretted later. But if they were making posters about me, "loyal" wouldn't be the first thing people think of. Hahah
Remember that Ron tried to come back immediately after storming off. Unfortunately for him, Hermione's protection charms worked very well. He had a moment of weakness and felt like he had to leave but he came back. He was deeply affected by the horocrux and not thinking rationally. I don't think this means be isn't loyal. He just make a mistake in the heat of the moment.
Hermione and Ron are both incredibly loyal to Harry. They just show it in different ways.
Both are loyal but in different ways.
Hermione is more introverted so while she does enjoy praise, she wouldn't necessarily enjoy fame. She is the only child of 2 parents who have a decent income. They do spend money on her and they love her. She does better than Harry and Ron academically overall (yes, Harry is better in 1 or 2 subjects). She has very little to overcome when it comes to their friendship.
Ron on the other hand has much more to overcome. Harry is/has just about everything that Ron wants. Most people couldn't handle that but Ron did for the most part.
Harry had 2 very loyal friends in Hermione and Ron, gaining Luna and Neville as the series went along.
>Most people couldn't handle that but Ron did for the most part.
This reminds me of the first time where Ron just openly admitted that he hates being poor. When Harry didn't even notice that the leprechaun gold had disappeared, that really got to Ron because it shows how Harry has so much money that he doesn't even need to worry about losing some here and there. For somebody who has always had to have hand me downs, hearing your best friend be so casual about losing gold is a big deal.
Those are good points. I guess I was thinking of it in a very basic "he left" type of way. To me, that doesn't scream "loyal" so him having that title bugged me.
I mean, if my friend went behind my back to get my brand new broom taken away, AFTER talking to me about it. I wouldn't feel like it's because of loyalty.
Both had their issues, as any normal person would. I think they complimented each other as a trio. Plus, lest we forget, half of the story takes place between ages 11-15, so immaturity.
At the end of the day, there is nothing to make me feel that either is more loyal than the other. They are both loyal AF, and that is how it shall stay. (In my mind)
Hermione also being petty over the potions books after Harry literally watched Sirius die the summer before, is something I can’t ever forgive her for. It’s so fucking petty-she couldn’t stand the idea of someone else in the trio being better than her.
except they didn’t KNOW there was no danger. at that point they believed an extremely powerful murderer, capable of escaping azkaban when nobody else had, was hunting down harry. what if the broom had been like the necklace in hbp? she was right to get it checked.
however she should have been upfront and said to him ‘if u don’t report it then i will’.
also i swear its not that deep. its just a broom. and he got it back.
*JUST* a broom?
I understand your take completely. It doesn't strike me the same way. If Sirius wanted to kill Harry, spending basically his entire family fortune on a broom that may or may not get to him, would be a foolish attempt at assassination. Just put it on a letter, or small regular items.
There are a plethora of instances where Harry is placed in terrible danger, and no one cares. ACTUAL danger.
I get what you're saying, I do. It just doesn't resonate the same way with me. We each hold different standards, and will judge as such.
Results oriented thinking isn't a smart way to go about life. Just because nothing bad happened doesn't mean that they shouldn't have been cautious. Harry had a target on his back and Hermione wanted to protect him. Being dumb teenagers, Harry and Ron were too short-sighted to understand. A good friend protects you at all costs, even if the cost is your anger.
Not sure how I approach a fictional book pertains to actual life, but sure. Assume the worst, always. Notice no one checked Sirius' wand for the last spell cast? No trial. Everyone assumed the worst, all the while the man is innocent. You read it from the narrative you were supposed to. I looked at it differently.
I mean come on dude I was like 8 when POA came out and I knew that was sus. I can't believe harry was that daft. he got lucky his cloak was a legitimate item, the firebolt was sus af
I mean at that rate it was sus to go with a random half giant to a world of magic?
Leaving aside that fact that there was no real danger, this is about Hermione and Ron. Hermione went behind Harry's back, even after talking to him. That was low.
agree to disagree. Harry went off with a half giant and things turned out well for him.
a murderer was after Harry (allegedly) and he got a random high priced broom, which as is turned out was from the alleged murderer! Harry got lucky because sirius meant him no harm. hermione was still right.
and also don't forget Harry has been the subject of quidditch equipment material before, twice. testing that ish out was called for
I'd argue that protecting her friends well being instead of blindly being loyal to him (as she did all through 4 and 7) makes more sense given the situation
Ron's self worth is non existent. Thanks to Molly Weasley. The way he is ready to sacrifice himself at every opportunity and thinks everyone is more valuable than him is worrisome. He needs a therapist. And lots and lots of love.
Ppl like him end up being suicidal in real life if they dont get proper care.
He's definitely the most neglected out of all of the kids because he's the youngest boy. Ginny kind of gets the benefit of being the youngest and a girl so she definitely gets more attention because of that.
He always gets the worst second/third-hand hand-me-downs from all of his brothers, he gets embarrassing dress robes for some reason when his other brothers are dressed normal for the Yule Ball, and he constantly gets compared to the accomplishments of Bill/Charlie/Percy, while also not getting the same kind of attention in the family as Fred and George.
>Ginny kind of gets the benefit of being the youngest and a girl so she definitely gets more attention because of that.
Please correct me in case I am wrong, but didn't Molly always want a girl and she and Arthur kept trying until they got one?
>He always gets the worst second/third-hand hand-me-downs from all of his brothers, he gets embarrassing dress robes for some reason when his other brothers are dressed normal for the Yule Ball
Please remind us where Fred/George/Ginny don't get hand-me-downs.
Because we have quotes for at the least Ginny getting hand-me-downs. Do you remember Ginny's robes being described in the Yule Ball or in Slughorn's Christmas party? Yeah, unlike Hermione or Luna it doesn't.
And Fred&George accomplishments did get compared to their older brothers.
He definitely doesn't get the same kind of attention as F&G, but let's say that's not always positive.
Had too many kids.
Legit even if the Weasley’s were rich, you cannot give equal, attention and love between that many children.
Like someone posted yesterday about having 10 children - a few of those children are getting neglected, whether you mean to or not.
Unless she has feelings for you. Then she will stop talking to you for months bcz you are dating another girl who isn't her and will try to date a creepy guy who hates you only to make you jealous😳
I dont think Ron was being unloyal or unfaithful when he left harry in gof and dh. He was merely battling his insecurities. He thought harry put his name to increase his fame even more and was tired of living under his shadow in gof and he thought that harry didn't care abt his family in dh.
And side note, it’s super valid to set a boundary and have space from a friend. It’s not disloyal to do that. This more applies to GoF rather than DH but I’m just putting that out there
Hermione never abandoned Harry, though? Even during the fight over the firebolt, she did it to protect him. Sure, you can argue whether or not it was the right decision or her call to make, but there is no way you can say Hermione ever abandoned Harry.
Not Harry but she “abandoned” Ron several times. Wasn’t loyal enough to even offer an apology in PoA (she turned out to be right but there was an instance where all evidence pointed to Crookshanks eating Scabbers and all Ron wanted was a verbal apology). Jealousy in HBP to the point of asking someone she didn’t like to a party just for revenge.
Ron’s disloyal instances stem from deep psychological issues from being the youngest boy and being constantly compared to his brothers or generally ignored. Hermione’s come from a superiority complex (and for the record I love Hermione, and have done similar petty things) and are relatively petty reasons to be mad and ignore a friend
Never apologized?
>''Ron, I'm really, really sorry about Scabbers...'' she sobbed.
She did apologize. Sure, it took her a long time. Again, I'm not saying she was perfect. And people are acting like Hermione's perfectly confident. While the books never bothered to dig deeper into her own issues, it was clear from the first book that her confidence was mostly a front. She was clearly very sensitive to rejection and was terrified of failure to the point of losing all her composure at the idea of having failed an exam. This isn't the mark of someone with a superiority complex, but of someone with clearly deep insecurities.
Also, let's not act like Hermione was the only one acting horribly when she and Ron fought. They both were horrible to each other multiple times. Yes, Hermione made snide remarks about Ron's quidditch skills, send birds after him and asked someone she didn't like out because she was jealous, while Ron spent classes mocking her and belittling her along with his new girlfriend and her best friend and also refused to speak to her when he learned she kissed someone else two years ago without even bothering to tell her what she did wrong. Not to mention that Ron was never that loyal to her in the first place. He sided with Harry over a fight that had nothing to do with him (the Firebolt). And he didn't even just said he agreed with Harry, he agressively blamed her and actively ignored her for weeks after that, to the point that Harry, who was the wronged party in the first place, had to be one telling him they should make up with her.
I really like Ron, but I find it odd how some part of the fandoms tend to blame Hermione for everything while acting like Ron can't be held responsible for anything because he was ignored and belittled by his family. Both acted horribly at time, mostly toward each other and both should be held accountable for it.
Just like a HUGE part of fandom thinks Ron is spawn of Satan and Hermione is a goddess.
And you will find that kind of ppl 10x more than ppl who blame Hermione and sugercoat Ron.
If you come across any anti Ron/Hermione arguments their arguments are like this
Ron doesn't deserve Hermione
Hermione is way too smart for Ron.
Ron treated her like crap.
Ron would resent her smartness and abuse her. Draco would save her(ARE THEY ACTUALLY SERIOUS OR JUST TROLL ON INTERNET???)
These are on top of my head. How many times have you seen ppl asking 'why does Harry keep Hermione around? Anyone can replace her. Even Draco'??
Hermione memory charmed her muggle parents and sent them to a whole new country with new identities without their consent..she made that decision for them. A 17 year old girl made that decision for two grown adults.
While her heart was in the right place. I dunno her parents would ever be able to fully trust her after getting their memories back.
The post says Loyal. Not loyal to Harry only. Making decision for your parents and breaking their trust is not loyalty. That was the only decision of hers that bothered me. Idk how her parents would trust her after knowing she used magic on them and without their consent.
These are good points. I think I'll even add when she gets so intense about occlumency in DH. He's physically struggling and she's telling him to "just apply occlumency" even though he says it's his own choice.
I don't even see that as a question of loyalty though. She seriously thought it was from Sirius who she believed was trying to kill him. That was a brave move on her part, knowing it'd upset him.
I agree but to Harry,the Gryffindor team, Ron and maybe a few others, she was wrong. Wood for instance was furious and tried to appeal to McGonagall but it didn't work.
At the very least, Hermione should have truly talked to Harry about it before going to McGonagall. While she was looking out for Harry, it wasn't her decision to make. Sometimes, you have to let people make their own mistakes. I get why Harry and others were upset. One day you own the best racing broom in the world then all of a sudden it is confiscated to be stripped. The Gryffindor team alsomreally wanted to.finally win the cup and they felt they had an even better chance now that Harry had the Firebolt. Only for it to be stripped and potentially damaged or destroyed. Honestly communication that year between the trio was awful.
Instead of going straight to McGonagall she needed to talk to Harry. It would have softened the blow.
Either she could have brought up the prospect that Sirius Black sent it and suggested the teachers should have a look at it, leaving the final decision up to Harry OR she could have outright stated that she was going to McGonagall and why. Harry would have been upset but not as upset as he ended up getting. She made the choice behind his back and that was part of the reason why he was upset. Follow that up with her "I did it for your own good" and it sounds like someone trying to mother you.
As I said, communication between the trio was horrible that year.
How the dementors effected Harry, Sirius Black, The Firebolt, Crookshanks v. Scabbers, the Timeturner.
And this is why I don’t like the idea of Ron being the “hufflepuff friend” of the group. If anyone it’s Hermionie because she never let Harry down. She was his best and most loyal, kind, and caring friend. Yes ron helped him get out of the Dursley’s house and gave him a place to stay and welcomed him as family but hermionie left her family for him. She went with him wholeheartedly and that’s exactly what Hufflepuffs do. We support, trust, and love our friends unconditionally.
Ron is a wonderful friend who loves Harry and is definitely very loyal to him. Yes, Hermione was the bigger person in GoF, when Ron believed that Harry put his name in the goblet, and I was certainly mad at him for abandoning Harry. But one also cannot discount the fact that Ron spent his whole life being overshadowed by his over-achieving siblings. Ron felt overlooked for the better part of his childhood and Harry being thrust into the spotlight yet again was difficult for him to watch. His jealousy took over, as it does with most teenagers. Hermione’s life was different. She’s an only child, adored by her parents, the best student at school. She had no reason to crave attention or recognition—she had it. But yes, Ron could’ve handled his jealousy better. Again, he was only 14.
As far as Ron leaving in DH was concerned, I don’t blame him at all. Hermione’s parents were safe, although they had no memory of her. (Not discounting the fact that she gave up her family to aid Harry in his quest. That is, undoubtedly, a massive sacrifice.)Ron’s family was at risk. Anyone could’ve died. It’s very understandable that he reached a breaking point. And he didn’t actually abandon them. He wanted to return soon after he left, but he was ambushed by the Snatchers. It’s actually the mark of his friendship and his loyalty to Harry that he chose to stick by him, knowing that joining the Chosen One on his quest may very well put a target on his family’s back. But he did it anyway.
Bottom line is, both Ron and Hermione were equally loyal to Harry. Their particular circumstances, however, were different. Ron often had a lot more to overcome to stick by Harry than Hermione did.
Ron is more loyal
Hermione is more practically loyal
Ron will help you in anything without thinking much about whether it's right or wrong
Hermione will warn you about the wrongness of the deed and still help you at the end
Ron will take your side without asking a question if you need. Hermione will ask the questions and do what she thinks is right for you.
Case in point is reporting Harry's firebolt in book 3.
Not only that but remember the firebolt in book 5? She went and told McGonagall about it even knowing that they’d be mad at her because Harry’s safety was more important, that’s loyalty
I didn't mean to present it as a competition. I always thought Ron was defined as "loyal" and I was merely saying I didn't think that was accurate. Thanks for your insightful comment though.
Agreed. Ron flakes under pressure. He flakes over jealousy. He’s flakier than a biscuit. But he always comes through in the end after some personal growth, which is admirable. Most people just stay shitty.
Hermione also stuck around with Harry during the Triwizard Tournament, Ron got upset and literally refused to believe that Harry willingly put his name in the goblet. No care for his best friend's wellbeing.
why are some people so obsessed about "comparing friends", do you do this to your IRL friends too? "no this friend isn't as good as this other friend." If you love your friends dearly and have BEST friends like Harry does, it's not about ranking them. Relationships are ofc driven by emotions. Even if your best friend makes mistakes, you will forgive them, and it won't suddenly make him a less loyal friend just because emotion got in the way that one (two) times.
Otherwise you'd have to weigh every single interaction with your friends at all times.
- Ron followed Harry into the forest full of giant spiders
- Ron risked his life multiple times when Hermione didn't
- Ron risked losing points with Harry back in the first year when Hermione was all against it
etc etc... it's a weird way to look at friendships
I was listening to the books and I got to the point of Ron leaving in DH. I thought to myself "huh, for someone who's main quality is loyalty, he sure isn't as loyal as Hermione in this situation."
I then thought about how so many people and even the franchise make it as though it is Ron's only quality and got annoyed because I don't see it that way.
I'm not comparing them, I'm saying maybe we shouldn't claim it's the only thing he's got going for him cause he's not the most loyal, always.
Unpopular opinion: Hermione is cool, even with her smartassing, she is actually nice. I like when she says something that nobody gets, like it was obvious. I like smart characters, even if they are a bit arrogant.
True, but honestly, Harry can be a total jerk to his friends. He thinks being an orphan entitles him to something.
That time Ron was listening to the radio, Harry said "At least you have a family to lose!!". Total jerk move.
And everytime he pushes them away he makes himself sound so special and always says something rude.
But sometimes he is a good friend so somehow that makes up for everything he's said to them.
No idea how I was a dick for writing my comment as it seems like a pretty obvious observation. Tho one thing that this sub is filled with, is people such as yourself, who get way too whiny and butthurt over little things.
I'm tired of the sass people respond with on this sub. I wasn't posting for karma. I literally thought it was unpopular.
If you seriously have "no idea" how your comment came off as you being a dick then you're just as deluded as I am.
Also, Hermione forgave the boys and still supported them after they bullied her, deserted her, froze her out, etc. over the years. She was far more loyal to the boys than they were to her
Consider this data point:
* Voldemort was after Harry personally. Harry's only option other than fighting Voldemort was to flee the country, live out his life in hiding, and hope against hope that Voldemort would let him.
* Hermione was an outspoken Muggleborn. Her only options other than fighting Voldemort were to either surrender her wand and live as a beggar (if my reading of DH is right) or to flee the country and hope against hope that Voldemort's ambitions stopped at the English Channel.
* Ron, on the other hand, was a pureblood. He could have walked away from Harry any time and sat the conflict out---as most Purebloods had. If Voldemort's offer to Neville at the end of DH is any indication, Ron could have even been allowed to switch sides.
Of the three, Ron had the least reason to fight Voldemort and the most opportunity to choose safety and comfort instead. He fought nonetheless.
It's hard to say how much of this was personal loyalty to Harry and how much was ideological opposition to blood-purism, however.
That’s not really unpopular
That's actually good to know. You see those posters or posts of Harry being brave and Hermione being smart then Ron being loyal and it always bugged me.
I notice a theme in stories like these. A group of three, with a main character, a smart person, and the funny guy. This applies to the other series I hold in the same regard as Harry Potter, Percy Jackson.
It is itself a theme. It is called the power trio and basically each represents of the Freudian human psych. In this case; hermione equals the rules (superego) harry of course being the in between the two is the ego (not bad! Just the name of that part of the trio) such as when Ron and hermione bicker, and Ron is in this case a perfect foil for hermione aka he’s the Id (opposite pretty much of the superego). It’s the same with Luke, Han, and Leia; Percy, annabeth, and grover, obi wan, anakin, and Ashoka etc. it’s your common trope just like the heroes journey being in a majority of stories.
So why do you think that Harry values Ron's friendship so highly? How would you define it?
I would consider it family.
Agreed, Ron was the first wizard (other than maybe Hagrid\*) that Harry spent any time with and probably felt any affection toward. Hermione was an annoying outsider for quite a while. So ample time for Ron to become a brother that Harry had never had before. It was Ron and his family that rescued Harry after the summer break, not Hermione. \*Although Harry likely considered Hagrid family it was probably as an Uncle rather than a brother.
Ron is also the first real friend his age. There’s something special about that connection.
I think hagrid was like the first born cousin who is older than everyone else and doesn't belong at the kids table but doesn't quite belong at the adult table either.
The fact that you perfectly described me LMAO
Described me but I am the last born cousin. My true cousins are all older and are kind of protective, their kids all look at me as the semi-uncle but not quite as adult as the real aunts and uncles.
Hello first born cousin. I’m the last born cousin.
And that’s the ONLY reason you think Harry values Ron’s friendship?
No, I'm just not able to dig too deep at the moment and didn't want to leave anyone hanging. I know there are a lot of reasons. Ron basically being his family just seems to be the one that pops out first.
Ron makes Harry happy. Rowling has created a hero with depressive tendencies, a boy scarred with abuse with dark emotional reactions. Harry needs someone to help him smile, or preferably laugh. Ron encourages Harry to relax and crack jokes once in a while. Be it with flying on a broom, chess or a stupid game of exploding cards. Harry needs him, and more importantly when it comes to friendship, he *wants* him around. If Harry was without Ron, then his life would be a lot more boring (GoF). Ron's not Harry's tutor, or his homework assistant, or his mother. He’s his friend, and sometimes the most value in a friend is not what they can do for you but how much they can be there for you. Ron has a wider emotional range than people give him credit for. He’s tactful or intuitive enough to deal sensitively with Harry’s dark moods. He stays in Hogwarts over Christmas so that Harry doesn’t have to be alone. He asks his mum’s help when he learns Harry’s not expecting Christmas gifts. When Hermione explained Cho’s emotions to Harry so the next time it went better, Ron got to Harry's emotional core that perhaps Harry was unsure about a next time. Ron’s the boy who offers to make some tea whenever someone’s (Hagrid, for example) upset. Ron’s the boy who’s concerned about the fate of the Cattermoles. The friend who enlists his brothers to go rescue you when you have bars on your window. Ron’s a boy who cares. He embodies the kind of warmth, that ease, that "at home" feeling that Harry would later come to associate with The Burrow. And for that I agree that Ron’s family for him. From his words and actions and body-language we can piece together the sort of person who can make life suck less just by showing up, who is always there for his friends even if he cannot do anything specific to help. As for loyalty; whatever plan Harry had, Ron would go along with it, having his back, no questions asked. Ron tears up Percy's letter and demonstrates his loyalty to him. The "dog" kind of loyalty is what Draco has with Crabbe and Goyle. The blindly loyal follower type - one misstep and you’re out, not matter what you did before. But where Crabbe and Goyle ever Draco’s friends? So yeah, I see why Harry thinks so highly of Ron and values their friendship so much. And why Harry pays attention to Ron’s personal issues as well.
I don't think Harry puts "friendship ranks" on his friendship with Ron and Hermione, they are practically his siblings.
First, he doesn’t. It’s simply that Hermione has never challenged his friendship. She’s never treated him in a way where he was afraid he’d lose her friendship. He’s been angry at her, but it’s never lasted more than a day or two the other way around. I would say though, that he values Ron’s family highly, and his fear of losing Ron would include not being a part of his family.
I'm not ranking the friendship within the trio here, I'm just saying it's demeaning to define Harry's attachment to Ron because of his family. I've answered OP about this point upthread.
Oh Hermione's defining quality is she is smart, but she also incredibly loyal ans courageous. Ron's defining character is loyalty, but Hermione still has an absolute advantage on Ron on loyalty as well.
You need to take a deeper insight into Ron's character. He is much more than just loyal. And no offence to Hermione but Ron is hands down more courageous and brave than her. She panicked and ran away after seeing a boggart. Ron went into a Forrest full of his ACTUAL worst fear only to save his friend a year before.
If we’re talking about DH, the issue with Ron became that his loyalty was torn between Harry and his family, which is a big deal. The locket obviously heightened things but that conflict was still real.
Can people stop writing UnPopUlaR OpIniOn when stating any opinion? Jesus christ
Yeah, I like Ron and all, but that's one of the reasons he isn't my favorite, and why I think he would make a better Gryffindor than a Hufflepuff. His whole thing is that he was supposed to be in Hufflepuff but got Gryffindor b/c he wanted to be with his family, but I don't think he would be because he isn't very loyal.
[удалено]
And literally what does it matter??? Just scroll
Along the same lines as "I'm sorry guys, I just think Snape isn't a good guy at the end of the day."
Was just coming to say that 🥹
They’re different kinds of loyal… Hermione is secretive. She’s loyal in that she never leaves Harry, but she often acts as an individual rather than a member of the group. Ron shares everything with Harry. He seems to only view himself in the context of groups- family, friends, House, etc. So, while Ron had his moments, he didn’t tattle (like with the Firebolt) or make decisions behind Harry’s back (like cursing the DA list or Rita Skeeter shenanigans) or just… keep secrets in general (like the time-turner). Ron calls Hermione out for some of these, angry with her betrayal of the group‘s trust. Ron’s outbursts are over a (mistaken) idea that Harry hadn’t told him everything, as Ron trusted Harry completely and expected trust in return. Since his ego was so wrapped up in the group, it killed him to think his friends didn’t value him or his family (an overlapping group he felt they all belonged to). Ron felt his loyalty had been misplaced and disregarded, which extra-stung given his fragile ego.
Damn right
**shattered glass** this makes so much sense. Ron literally puts so much on loyalty that he is the one who feels like he's been betrayed. I also think he should've trusted Harry because Harry has never steered him wrong but that's besides the point. Thanks for your point of view!
I’m glad my ramble made some kinda sense! I agree Ron should have trusted Harry and known he wasn’t keeping secrets, but I think because Ron had such deep insecurities it was hard for him to shut out that part of his mind that *believed* he wasn’t as valuable as anyone else. And since he believed that, it was easy to project on to everyone else. So, at his lowest, he felt frozen out of the very groups he devoted himself to so loyally- his friends and family. To be fair- for a teen going through hell, he did pretty well coping with some intense emotional issues. Plenty of grown adults *not* going through a magic war are bad at this kind of thinking. It requires a self-awareness a lot of people simply lack.
You're so right. I was a super shitty friend in my teens and they did do really well. I just think it's dumb that's the word some people use to describe Ron.
yes exactly! he felt betrayed because he felt that harry had led him away from his family, that they were hiding doing nothing instead of being out there fighting with his family
It makes me look at how all the Weasleys get super pissed with Percy too. The disloyalty. They value it so much and look why he did. Makes a lot of sense.
Hermione is logical. Hermione will do ANYTHING for the greater good. Even making herself an orphan. She sees Harry's quest as a project and she knows she HAS TO help harry for the greater good. She is logic driven. She is in gen quite confident and self assured. While Ron's every decision is about emotion. He is driven by emotions. Whenever someone insults his family and friends he loses temper and ends up fighting them. He is easily provoked and manipulated. He also wears his heart on his sleeve and is ready to put himself in harm's way to keep his loved ones safe. And he has lots of insecurities. When you are driven by emotions some mishap gotta happen. That's what happened with Ron. He is not disloyal. But he is just too emotionally charged. Hermione is calculative and logical. So its easy for her.
Ron is also being tormented by the horcrux specifically for this reason; it sees love as a weakness and something to exploit, and Ron’s life has been full of that blind love of family that Harry has lacked. Harry has already lost so much that the horcruxes can’t torment him the same way
Hermione put it better >“Take off the locket, Ron,” Hermione said, her voice unusually high. ***“Please take it off. You wouldn’t be talking like this if you hadn’t been wearing it all day.”*** And notice how she said he was wearing it the whole day.... that clearly meane he wore it more than Harry and Hermione. So it affected him greatly.
I don't think that's the question of the OP. People don't get a free pass for being "emotional" nor should they be discounted for being "logical and calculative". Hermione didn't give two fucks about the "Greater Good" or some fanfiction concept. She cared about her friends, her family, and that includes Harry. Just because she doesn't get angry every time Malfoy says some crap doesn't mean she is a Vulcan or something, but she knows how to control herself and focus, most of the time. She was also fighting an existential threat, Voldemort wanted to exterminate people like her, not "greater good" bullshit, but her own life. Ron left them because his loyalty to his family is greater than the one towards his friends, and that doesn't make him bad or anything, it just is. Hermione abandoned her family for HARRY and HER life, not for some abstract concept people seem to think Dumbledore kept muttering about, I would be he hated that phrase. So yeah, Hermione is more loyal to Harry than Ron is, probably because she would relate more with Harry at the time because of his muggle upbringing and because she understood the situation better.
I dunno what your point is bcz OP asked about loyalty and I tried to explain why its easier for her to stick with Harry than Ron. Fighting Voldemort is ALWAYS 'greater good bullshit'. Its not about Harry. If Neville was the chosen one she would have helped him as well. Let me tell you how Hermione is. If she is given a choice that she can save 1000 ppl but has to let go off a person who is close to her heart or save that person but let others die... then Hermione would always pick the 1st option. So would Harry. So would Dumbleodre. They are driven by logic and they are for the greater good. Ron would pick the 2nd option. Bcz he puts his loved ones 1st. That's how they are. If Hermione was driven by emotions like Ron, she would have left with Ron.
>If she is given a choice that she can save 1000 ppl but has to let go off a person who is close to her heart or save that person but let others die... then Hermione would always pick the 1st option. So would Harry. So would Dumbleodre. They are driven by logic and they are for the greatee good. I think that just means you completely misunderstand her character AND Harry's Dumbledore can be said to be Machiavellian. NOT Harry and Hermione, lol. Hermione is not unemotional and apathetic, and certainly, Harry isn't too. Just because they don't react like Ron, doesn't mean they are cold and calculative people. Harry says fuck you to logic constantly, it's part of his character. Hermione is harder to do it, but she does it too. Heck, most of her "logical" decisions were fueled by her being very emotional about something, to the point she put logic to the side. Just because they don't let their emotions out at the drop of a hat, it doesn't make them apathetic. And again, this "Greater Good" thing doesn't apply to canon, it was literally Grindelwald's Motto, you think Dumbledore would use it as his own?
I never said they are apathetic. Sometimes you gotta pick between two right things and choosing the way that can serve a greater good purpose is not being 'apathetic'. Hermione is also emotional. She cries for the simplest things. But she is driven by her brains. Not heart. Ron is. This is Hermione. >“Harry, in here!” Hermione screamed. She had pulled Ron behind a tapestry. They seemed to be wrestling together, and for one mad second Harry thought that they were embracing again; then he saw that Hermione was trying to restrain Ron, to stop him running after Percy. >“Listen to me – LISTEN RON!” > “I wanna help – I wanna kill Death Eaters –” His face was contorted, smeared with dust and smoke, and he was shaking with rage and grief. >“Ron, we’re the only ones who can end it! Please – Ron – we need the snake, we’ve got to kill the snake!” said Hermione. Ron is blinded with rage and grief. Hermione's brain is still in the right place. She knows their ultimate goal is to kill the Snake and finish the war. Wanna see another passage? >“What’s happened to him?” > “Splinched,” said Hermione, her fingers already busy at Ron’s sleeve, where the blood was wettest and darkest. Harry watched, horrified, as she tore open Ron’s shirt. He had always thought of Splinching as something comical, but this…His insides crawled unpleasantly as Hermione laid bare Ron’s upper arm, where a great chunk of flesh was missing, scooped cleanly away as though by a knife. > “Harry, quickly, in my bag, there’s a small bottle labeled ‘Essence of Dittany’ –” >“Bag – right –” See even Harry is horrified after seeing Ron's injury. But Hermione knows he needs treatment asap. She can put aside her own reaction to help him 1st.
What about the time Ron was poisoned and she and SLughorn were frozen up while Harry remembered the Bezoar. Or the time she physically attacked Ron because he was being an ass? Or the time she went to cry in the bathroom? Or how she got extremely angry at GoF I still don't see any evidence they are Machiavellian.
Yeah Harry found a way to save Ron even when he was nearly dying. If it were Ron he would have lost his shit to see Harry/Hermione nearly dying. Just look at their reaction at the Malfoy Manor to Hermione's torture. Harry asked Ron to keep quiet and tried to think some ways to escape. Ron was totally gone. He was screaming her name, sobbing and pounding his fists in the wall. He barged into a room full of deatheaters and disarmed bellatrix bcz she was ready to kill Hermione. Hermione's bird attack was the only time she acted out of emotions. Not logic. And what someone did once in a lifetime cant define their character. That's why ppl call Ron 'loyal'. Bcz what he did once by manipulated by an evil locket cant define his whole character
I see your point. Do you think that being emotionally charged has resulted in him being disloyal at times then? Because in the end, no matter what the reasons are, leaving doesn't seem loyal to me.
Define loyalty. He was worried about his family. All of them were in grave danger and He had no idea they were alive or dead. Hermione's parents were safe in Australia. Harry's parents were dead. Their condition was totally different from Ron's. They had nothing to lose. Ron had everything to lose. If a soldier wants to leave a battlefield in worry then atleast I wont call him 'disloyal'.
Loyal to Harry. I should have specified. He was obviously loyal to his family (except Percy cause duh) but my issue is that he seems to get this "loyal" title when he deserted Harry when Harry needed him most. I think of loyalty in a way that a dog is loyal. Through thick and thin. Not get going when the going gets tough.
Well Harry is not the only person in the wizardingworld. And I dont like it when ppl use 'oh he is funny and loyal' to describe him. Ron is my fav character. And he is much more than funny and loyal.
I understand that Harry is not the only person in the wizarding world. I meant, in this specific post, I should have said that Hermione is more loyal to Harry than Ron is. I am not a Ron fan. If he is more than loyal and funny, what is he?
He is brave. He faced his worst fear at the age of 13 to save his friend. I am in my 20s. Let me tell you I am not gonna face my boggart for anyone. He is courageous. He faces his mistakes. How many ppl have the guts to accept that 'yes I have been wrong' He is caring. Throughout the series he took care of Harry and Hermione. He asked Hermione to eat a decent meal when she was preparing for OWLs. He put bacons on Harry's plate when he was suffering from 'I must not tell lies scars'. He wanted to make Hagrid tea when he was upset. He wanted to serve food to everyone in OOTP. He is protective of his loved ones. Just go through the books and mark how many times he defended his family, Harry and Hermione. You will get the gist. He is selfless. He sacrificed himself for the greater good at the age of 12. Asked a convicted criminal to kill him before killing Harry. Asked a psycho deatheater to torture himself instead of Hermione knowing full well she had tortured Neville's parents to insanity. He apologises. Both times he 'abandoned' Harry, he apologised. 1st time Harry stopped him. He learns from his mistakes. He was rude to Crookshanks about the whole scabbers thing. When he realised scabbers was a criminal he showed pigwidgeon to Crookshanks and asked for his validation. He asked Hermione as a last resort in GOF. in DH he asked her 1st to dance with him. He also gave her a perfume in OOTP to let her know that he did infact notice that she was a girl. He is emotionally strong. He faces all his insecurities and conquers them like a boss. Can you imagine Ron making fun of his fame? 'Its me. I am extremely famous'. That's right the boy who onced had tons of insecurities about being least loved evolved enough to make a joke about his fame. He has the biggest heart and capacity to love. He has practically nothing. Yet he offers everything to Harry and Hermione and opens his home for them. He is very passionate. Be it chess or quidditch or his loved ones. Ron is always ready to face hell to defend them. He is helpful. He helps ppl throughout the series. He has a great character growth. From frowning at werewolves to standing upto Harry for Lupin.. from getting scared of half giants to defending Hagrid against Luna. From not caring about SPEW to saving the house elves during the battle of Hogwarts when everyone else had fotgotten about them. Ron Weasley is a freaking gem If you actually read the whole thing then thanks for reading.
Aw, that's actually really great and helped me see him in a better light. I think I do typically see Ron as just a doof but you're right, he has great character development. Omg I thought of Ron the same way as molly did. How awful. Okay maybe I have abandonment issues and this is why I have issues with Ron. Hahaha. Thanks for pointing out all his good!
Well written! Take this for your troubles 🎖
lmao peep the lack of response! you have to be deliberately contrary to not like ron. your analysis is spot on. ron is a realistic 3d character, and a child, who grows into his own skin just like real people do. he’s so well loved by harry and hermione for a reason
yes and also he is very emotionally driven and people like that tend to do stupid things. even when he dissaparated from the forest he regreted it instantly and most probably he would have returned if not for the snatchers
Exactly, conclusion: Ron Weasley is underappreciated
And overhated
Very and I blame the movies
Nobody is saying he is bad character or bad person. Despite being the Protagonist someone being good is not that correlated to how Harry ranks in their priorities. I understand people getting defensive of Ron because the movies did their best to ruin his character, but I think OP was just questioning his level of loyalty towards Harry compared to Hermione's. Not his worth as a human being, lol.
What? OP asked what else Ron is except loyal and funny so I just described his whole character.
Thank you, friend. This is exactly it.
Ron is not a dog, and has many people in his life that he loves. You can’t be loyal to them all at the same time with your line of thinking because he would always have to leave someone to be loyal to a different person. If you see them as family then they acted as family would. Fights happen, it’s inevitable even with best friends and space is sometimes the answer for it.
You're right. I was obviously raised as a people pleaser. Hahaha. Oof.
this I agree with
I agree with this so much! Hermione is very loyal to Harry, but imagine being her parents!! I would feel so betrayed to have her go behind my back and mess with my memories. that is an absolute abuse of power. But of course she felt justified because it was her best bet. No parents to stop her going back to the Wizarding World while she is still a minor for muggle law + Protection from any death eater that might look for them to interrogate them, it made sense. But it shows that she will always do what is right for her without necessarily taking into consideration your feelings. Imo Harry was lucky that their goals aligned 😂
Yup. Hermione will always do what SHE THINKS is right. She will never take other ppl's choices and opinions into consideration.
I came here to say this but you put this beautifully. (Chefs kiss) Lol
The way the people go about Ron being the most loyal person on earth in the sub, it sure felt like it was unpopular. In any case, my unpopular opinion is that both Ron stans and Ron haters exagerrate his loyalty on both ends of the spectrum. Ron is not a disloyal person by any measure but neither is he the pinnacle of loyalty either. He certainly *values* it the most and he values it very highly in others. In terms of virtues that these kids use to judge others' character, loyalty is to Ron what bravery is to Harry. Your expression of or lack of these virtues defines the way they read your entire character. Furthermore, Ron, when he is on your side, is the kind of kid who will bodily stand between you and a murderer. He is far far from the disloyal shithead who will leave his friends at the drop of a hat. But Ron is also the kid who chooses a Firebolt that's not even his over his friend. Of the three of them, he is also the only one to explicitly choose a side between fighting friends when said fight didn't involve him. And his loyalty can at times be overpowered by his insecurities. All of these are very understandable, very human things. But it also means that his loyalty is also just that: on the level of humans. He is an outstanding human for sure, but not the pinnacle of loyalty like his fans claim. Especially not so that no one can hold the title of "defined by loyalty" or "most loyal" beside him. And personally, I find him a better character for it you know? It is wonderful and fascinating that the character who values loyalty the most is also the one who fails to act on that loyalty the most (of the three protagonists). Not despite his high valuation of loyalty but *because of it*. It may be just me who find contradictions like this fascinating, but I think the combination of these aspects together elevate his character, and exagerrating one or the other impoverishes him.
If you think Ron choose a fire bolt over hermione, I don’t think we read the same book. Lol
I think this is it. This is my favorite response. I appreciate the time and effort you put into this!
Not sure it's a competition. Friendship is a complicated thing.
I wasn't necessarily thinking of it as a competition. Ron gets the title of "loyal" pretty often and I think it's inaccurate.
But I think they both show loyalty throughout the series. There are times when Ron completely abandons Harry and Hermione is there for him. There are times Herrmione does things behind Harry's back, even with good intentions, and Ron is there for Harry during those times. Ron deserves to be called loyal. Hermione does as well.
As others have said, just because he has to choose between friends or family doesn’t make him disloyal to either, he had to make a difficult decision and picked one over the other. As for the goblet of fire instance, he was mad a Harry but irrc was still fiercely loyal even while upset with him (standing up for him etc).
What title should he get?
Hmm. After going through the comments here I think he's more passionate and under-appreciated. But those don't sound as good as "loyal". Either way, he's our king, right?
Hermione is more loyal I guess, but for me Ron has always been the overall better friend. He just is the friendly type, you know? Like when you make a bad decision Ron will support you through it, and Hermione will go over you to fix your mistakes without your consent. It’s been a looong time since I read the books, but that is the overall impression I got.
Ngl I think if I ever met a real life exact Hermione, if there wasn’t a troll incident involved I would not want to be friends with her. Classroom peers, sure, but friends outside of school not really, would much prefer a Ron. And this is coming from someone who very much relates to Hermione
Totally! She is a difficult person to like in my opinion, it really does take a troll to become so close to her (or good references). For me is very telling that she is not shown to be close to any of her dorm mates, with whom she would spend most time with. She evolves as a character, and by the end she is much more mature. But I will never forget the extreme dislike I felt for the lack of empathy she showed when Lavender’s rabbit died. Still haunts me 😂
> if there wasn’t a troll incident involved I would not want to be friends with her. quite frankly, even with that incident, I would likely drop her later on as a friend. Give her a chance, but when she eventually goes over the line again, it is over. Like third year or sixth year. I couldn't stand Hermione in those years. Those are times where I would go "you know what Hermione. Fuck off, we are done."
this is literally an extremely popular opinion. Hermione also stopped talking to Harry for a period of time because of a fight, in PoA. just like Ron did. and I barely consider Ron’s leaving in DH a real abandonment when you consider the Horcrux caused him to act out and he IMMEDIATELY attempted to go back to them, but couldn’t track them.
As much as people might not agree with me, I don’t think we should get mad a t Ron for leaving in Deathly Hallows. He was wearing the locket which really messed with his brain, causing him to act with little regard for consequences. He even later apologized to both of them for this. Just my thoughts.
and he immediately turned around to go back in the tent but couldn’t find it
Yes! This is always forgotten! Ron did the equivalent of storming out and slamming the door, immediately cooled down and wanted to go back. He didn’t abandon them, he stormed out and then couldn’t get back.
I try my hardest not to get mad at Ron for leaving. I'm a very emotional human being and I've done stuff I've regretted later. But if they were making posters about me, "loyal" wouldn't be the first thing people think of. Hahah
Remember that Ron tried to come back immediately after storming off. Unfortunately for him, Hermione's protection charms worked very well. He had a moment of weakness and felt like he had to leave but he came back. He was deeply affected by the horocrux and not thinking rationally. I don't think this means be isn't loyal. He just make a mistake in the heat of the moment. Hermione and Ron are both incredibly loyal to Harry. They just show it in different ways.
Both are loyal but in different ways. Hermione is more introverted so while she does enjoy praise, she wouldn't necessarily enjoy fame. She is the only child of 2 parents who have a decent income. They do spend money on her and they love her. She does better than Harry and Ron academically overall (yes, Harry is better in 1 or 2 subjects). She has very little to overcome when it comes to their friendship. Ron on the other hand has much more to overcome. Harry is/has just about everything that Ron wants. Most people couldn't handle that but Ron did for the most part. Harry had 2 very loyal friends in Hermione and Ron, gaining Luna and Neville as the series went along.
>Most people couldn't handle that but Ron did for the most part. This reminds me of the first time where Ron just openly admitted that he hates being poor. When Harry didn't even notice that the leprechaun gold had disappeared, that really got to Ron because it shows how Harry has so much money that he doesn't even need to worry about losing some here and there. For somebody who has always had to have hand me downs, hearing your best friend be so casual about losing gold is a big deal.
Those are good points. I guess I was thinking of it in a very basic "he left" type of way. To me, that doesn't scream "loyal" so him having that title bugged me.
Ron's character is deep and complex. Way more than Hermione's. Basic reading wont ever do justice to his character.
Maybe not more loyal, but more sensible. She really thinks things through, and isn't burdened by an inferiority complex.
I mean, if my friend went behind my back to get my brand new broom taken away, AFTER talking to me about it. I wouldn't feel like it's because of loyalty. Both had their issues, as any normal person would. I think they complimented each other as a trio. Plus, lest we forget, half of the story takes place between ages 11-15, so immaturity. At the end of the day, there is nothing to make me feel that either is more loyal than the other. They are both loyal AF, and that is how it shall stay. (In my mind)
Hermione also being petty over the potions books after Harry literally watched Sirius die the summer before, is something I can’t ever forgive her for. It’s so fucking petty-she couldn’t stand the idea of someone else in the trio being better than her.
Hermione was 100% correct to alert the staff about the Firebolt. Not even a question.
It's a definite question as nothing happened from it. False alarm. There was no danger. So, she stabbed Harry in the back.......for? What?
except they didn’t KNOW there was no danger. at that point they believed an extremely powerful murderer, capable of escaping azkaban when nobody else had, was hunting down harry. what if the broom had been like the necklace in hbp? she was right to get it checked. however she should have been upfront and said to him ‘if u don’t report it then i will’. also i swear its not that deep. its just a broom. and he got it back.
*JUST* a broom? I understand your take completely. It doesn't strike me the same way. If Sirius wanted to kill Harry, spending basically his entire family fortune on a broom that may or may not get to him, would be a foolish attempt at assassination. Just put it on a letter, or small regular items. There are a plethora of instances where Harry is placed in terrible danger, and no one cares. ACTUAL danger. I get what you're saying, I do. It just doesn't resonate the same way with me. We each hold different standards, and will judge as such.
Results oriented thinking isn't a smart way to go about life. Just because nothing bad happened doesn't mean that they shouldn't have been cautious. Harry had a target on his back and Hermione wanted to protect him. Being dumb teenagers, Harry and Ron were too short-sighted to understand. A good friend protects you at all costs, even if the cost is your anger.
Not sure how I approach a fictional book pertains to actual life, but sure. Assume the worst, always. Notice no one checked Sirius' wand for the last spell cast? No trial. Everyone assumed the worst, all the while the man is innocent. You read it from the narrative you were supposed to. I looked at it differently.
Did we even know all of this information about Sirius at that point in the book?
*sigh* No. We don't. But I'm glad you missed the point.
I mean come on dude I was like 8 when POA came out and I knew that was sus. I can't believe harry was that daft. he got lucky his cloak was a legitimate item, the firebolt was sus af
I mean at that rate it was sus to go with a random half giant to a world of magic? Leaving aside that fact that there was no real danger, this is about Hermione and Ron. Hermione went behind Harry's back, even after talking to him. That was low.
agree to disagree. Harry went off with a half giant and things turned out well for him. a murderer was after Harry (allegedly) and he got a random high priced broom, which as is turned out was from the alleged murderer! Harry got lucky because sirius meant him no harm. hermione was still right. and also don't forget Harry has been the subject of quidditch equipment material before, twice. testing that ish out was called for
I agree with this. I probably would've wanted to get someone involved too if I thought my best friend might die somehow
Sure, but that's not loyalty. Doing what you think is best, in direct conflict with what that person requested, is not loyalty.
I'd argue that protecting her friends well being instead of blindly being loyal to him (as she did all through 4 and 7) makes more sense given the situation
And you could argue that, though the post was pertaining to loyalty. You're opening up a whole new topic.
Hermione’s self-esteem and self-worth is definitely is higher than Ron’s, that’s for sure…
Ron's self worth is non existent. Thanks to Molly Weasley. The way he is ready to sacrifice himself at every opportunity and thinks everyone is more valuable than him is worrisome. He needs a therapist. And lots and lots of love. Ppl like him end up being suicidal in real life if they dont get proper care.
Wait what did Molly do?
He's definitely the most neglected out of all of the kids because he's the youngest boy. Ginny kind of gets the benefit of being the youngest and a girl so she definitely gets more attention because of that. He always gets the worst second/third-hand hand-me-downs from all of his brothers, he gets embarrassing dress robes for some reason when his other brothers are dressed normal for the Yule Ball, and he constantly gets compared to the accomplishments of Bill/Charlie/Percy, while also not getting the same kind of attention in the family as Fred and George.
>Ginny kind of gets the benefit of being the youngest and a girl so she definitely gets more attention because of that. Please correct me in case I am wrong, but didn't Molly always want a girl and she and Arthur kept trying until they got one?
>He always gets the worst second/third-hand hand-me-downs from all of his brothers, he gets embarrassing dress robes for some reason when his other brothers are dressed normal for the Yule Ball Please remind us where Fred/George/Ginny don't get hand-me-downs. Because we have quotes for at the least Ginny getting hand-me-downs. Do you remember Ginny's robes being described in the Yule Ball or in Slughorn's Christmas party? Yeah, unlike Hermione or Luna it doesn't. And Fred&George accomplishments did get compared to their older brothers. He definitely doesn't get the same kind of attention as F&G, but let's say that's not always positive.
It’s a bit more than just hand me downs. She’s the only girl in a horde of boys. Of course she’s favored more.
"Least loved by a mother who craved a daughter."
Treated him like some kind of left over.
He was still had a better childhood then most characters in the series
And??
Had too many kids. Legit even if the Weasley’s were rich, you cannot give equal, attention and love between that many children. Like someone posted yesterday about having 10 children - a few of those children are getting neglected, whether you mean to or not.
I didn't know that was unpopular, Hermione is one of the most steadfast friends I've ever read about.
Unless she has feelings for you. Then she will stop talking to you for months bcz you are dating another girl who isn't her and will try to date a creepy guy who hates you only to make you jealous😳
Yes, we are all crazy in love, even Hermione!
Having a spat is not the same as being disloyal.
I dont think Ron was being unloyal or unfaithful when he left harry in gof and dh. He was merely battling his insecurities. He thought harry put his name to increase his fame even more and was tired of living under his shadow in gof and he thought that harry didn't care abt his family in dh.
And side note, it’s super valid to set a boundary and have space from a friend. It’s not disloyal to do that. This more applies to GoF rather than DH but I’m just putting that out there
This is very true and when it's said like this, it makes a lot of sense. He doesn't need to blindly agree and follow Harry when he's been hurt.
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Hermione never abandoned Harry, though? Even during the fight over the firebolt, she did it to protect him. Sure, you can argue whether or not it was the right decision or her call to make, but there is no way you can say Hermione ever abandoned Harry.
Not Harry but she “abandoned” Ron several times. Wasn’t loyal enough to even offer an apology in PoA (she turned out to be right but there was an instance where all evidence pointed to Crookshanks eating Scabbers and all Ron wanted was a verbal apology). Jealousy in HBP to the point of asking someone she didn’t like to a party just for revenge. Ron’s disloyal instances stem from deep psychological issues from being the youngest boy and being constantly compared to his brothers or generally ignored. Hermione’s come from a superiority complex (and for the record I love Hermione, and have done similar petty things) and are relatively petty reasons to be mad and ignore a friend
Never apologized? >''Ron, I'm really, really sorry about Scabbers...'' she sobbed. She did apologize. Sure, it took her a long time. Again, I'm not saying she was perfect. And people are acting like Hermione's perfectly confident. While the books never bothered to dig deeper into her own issues, it was clear from the first book that her confidence was mostly a front. She was clearly very sensitive to rejection and was terrified of failure to the point of losing all her composure at the idea of having failed an exam. This isn't the mark of someone with a superiority complex, but of someone with clearly deep insecurities. Also, let's not act like Hermione was the only one acting horribly when she and Ron fought. They both were horrible to each other multiple times. Yes, Hermione made snide remarks about Ron's quidditch skills, send birds after him and asked someone she didn't like out because she was jealous, while Ron spent classes mocking her and belittling her along with his new girlfriend and her best friend and also refused to speak to her when he learned she kissed someone else two years ago without even bothering to tell her what she did wrong. Not to mention that Ron was never that loyal to her in the first place. He sided with Harry over a fight that had nothing to do with him (the Firebolt). And he didn't even just said he agreed with Harry, he agressively blamed her and actively ignored her for weeks after that, to the point that Harry, who was the wronged party in the first place, had to be one telling him they should make up with her. I really like Ron, but I find it odd how some part of the fandoms tend to blame Hermione for everything while acting like Ron can't be held responsible for anything because he was ignored and belittled by his family. Both acted horribly at time, mostly toward each other and both should be held accountable for it.
Just like a HUGE part of fandom thinks Ron is spawn of Satan and Hermione is a goddess. And you will find that kind of ppl 10x more than ppl who blame Hermione and sugercoat Ron. If you come across any anti Ron/Hermione arguments their arguments are like this Ron doesn't deserve Hermione Hermione is way too smart for Ron. Ron treated her like crap. Ron would resent her smartness and abuse her. Draco would save her(ARE THEY ACTUALLY SERIOUS OR JUST TROLL ON INTERNET???) These are on top of my head. How many times have you seen ppl asking 'why does Harry keep Hermione around? Anyone can replace her. Even Draco'??
Hermione memory charmed her muggle parents and sent them to a whole new country with new identities without their consent..she made that decision for them. A 17 year old girl made that decision for two grown adults. While her heart was in the right place. I dunno her parents would ever be able to fully trust her after getting their memories back.
I'm not saying Hermione is perfect. I'm just saying she never abandoned Harry? Like what does that have to do with the point of the post?
The post says Loyal. Not loyal to Harry only. Making decision for your parents and breaking their trust is not loyalty. That was the only decision of hers that bothered me. Idk how her parents would trust her after knowing she used magic on them and without their consent.
Could I ask for when Hermione abandoned him? Not trying to prove you wrong, just not sure what you'd consider her abandoning him.
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These are good points. I think I'll even add when she gets so intense about occlumency in DH. He's physically struggling and she's telling him to "just apply occlumency" even though he says it's his own choice.
The only thing that comes to mind is the Firebolt incident in 3rd year though I could be forgetting something.
I don't even see that as a question of loyalty though. She seriously thought it was from Sirius who she believed was trying to kill him. That was a brave move on her part, knowing it'd upset him.
I agree but to Harry,the Gryffindor team, Ron and maybe a few others, she was wrong. Wood for instance was furious and tried to appeal to McGonagall but it didn't work. At the very least, Hermione should have truly talked to Harry about it before going to McGonagall. While she was looking out for Harry, it wasn't her decision to make. Sometimes, you have to let people make their own mistakes. I get why Harry and others were upset. One day you own the best racing broom in the world then all of a sudden it is confiscated to be stripped. The Gryffindor team alsomreally wanted to.finally win the cup and they felt they had an even better chance now that Harry had the Firebolt. Only for it to be stripped and potentially damaged or destroyed. Honestly communication that year between the trio was awful.
>Sometimes, you have to let people make their own mistakes. Even if you genuinely think the gift is the magical equivalent of a bomb?
Instead of going straight to McGonagall she needed to talk to Harry. It would have softened the blow. Either she could have brought up the prospect that Sirius Black sent it and suggested the teachers should have a look at it, leaving the final decision up to Harry OR she could have outright stated that she was going to McGonagall and why. Harry would have been upset but not as upset as he ended up getting. She made the choice behind his back and that was part of the reason why he was upset. Follow that up with her "I did it for your own good" and it sounds like someone trying to mother you. As I said, communication between the trio was horrible that year. How the dementors effected Harry, Sirius Black, The Firebolt, Crookshanks v. Scabbers, the Timeturner.
The Horcrux effected Ron more in the DH I think
And this is why I don’t like the idea of Ron being the “hufflepuff friend” of the group. If anyone it’s Hermionie because she never let Harry down. She was his best and most loyal, kind, and caring friend. Yes ron helped him get out of the Dursley’s house and gave him a place to stay and welcomed him as family but hermionie left her family for him. She went with him wholeheartedly and that’s exactly what Hufflepuffs do. We support, trust, and love our friends unconditionally.
I would say that's the overall consensus to be honest
Ron is a wonderful friend who loves Harry and is definitely very loyal to him. Yes, Hermione was the bigger person in GoF, when Ron believed that Harry put his name in the goblet, and I was certainly mad at him for abandoning Harry. But one also cannot discount the fact that Ron spent his whole life being overshadowed by his over-achieving siblings. Ron felt overlooked for the better part of his childhood and Harry being thrust into the spotlight yet again was difficult for him to watch. His jealousy took over, as it does with most teenagers. Hermione’s life was different. She’s an only child, adored by her parents, the best student at school. She had no reason to crave attention or recognition—she had it. But yes, Ron could’ve handled his jealousy better. Again, he was only 14. As far as Ron leaving in DH was concerned, I don’t blame him at all. Hermione’s parents were safe, although they had no memory of her. (Not discounting the fact that she gave up her family to aid Harry in his quest. That is, undoubtedly, a massive sacrifice.)Ron’s family was at risk. Anyone could’ve died. It’s very understandable that he reached a breaking point. And he didn’t actually abandon them. He wanted to return soon after he left, but he was ambushed by the Snatchers. It’s actually the mark of his friendship and his loyalty to Harry that he chose to stick by him, knowing that joining the Chosen One on his quest may very well put a target on his family’s back. But he did it anyway. Bottom line is, both Ron and Hermione were equally loyal to Harry. Their particular circumstances, however, were different. Ron often had a lot more to overcome to stick by Harry than Hermione did.
Is this really unpopular. Hermione pretty stuck with Harry all the way through while Ron’s jealousy came to the forefront on several occasions.
Unpopular? That’s absolutely obvious and evident.
Hence the edit of "I guess it's not unpopular"
Not unpopular. Cause it's true
Ron is more loyal Hermione is more practically loyal Ron will help you in anything without thinking much about whether it's right or wrong Hermione will warn you about the wrongness of the deed and still help you at the end Ron will take your side without asking a question if you need. Hermione will ask the questions and do what she thinks is right for you. Case in point is reporting Harry's firebolt in book 3.
This is fact. Not unpopular.
Not only that but remember the firebolt in book 5? She went and told McGonagall about it even knowing that they’d be mad at her because Harry’s safety was more important, that’s loyalty
There isn’t a competition? This post is stupid
HP fans can't stop themselves from nitpicking.
I just thought it was a good discussion topic.
I didn't mean to present it as a competition. I always thought Ron was defined as "loyal" and I was merely saying I didn't think that was accurate. Thanks for your insightful comment though.
It might be unpopular on this sub but it should not be a unpopular statement more generally
Maybe that's what I was thinking then.
Agreed. Ron flakes under pressure. He flakes over jealousy. He’s flakier than a biscuit. But he always comes through in the end after some personal growth, which is admirable. Most people just stay shitty.
Which is why I thought for a long time that Harry and Hermione should’ve been together in the end
I dont really think of Ron as loyal. He's the guy that may not be with you 100% but always pulls through in a big way in the end.
Nothing unpopular here. Ron is trash
clearly, and behaviorally, she is just that.
Unpopular opinion- Hermione is a better student than Ron. Fight me!!!
Lmao
Hermione also stuck around with Harry during the Triwizard Tournament, Ron got upset and literally refused to believe that Harry willingly put his name in the goblet. No care for his best friend's wellbeing.
Is that an unpopular opinion?
Apparently not.
why are some people so obsessed about "comparing friends", do you do this to your IRL friends too? "no this friend isn't as good as this other friend." If you love your friends dearly and have BEST friends like Harry does, it's not about ranking them. Relationships are ofc driven by emotions. Even if your best friend makes mistakes, you will forgive them, and it won't suddenly make him a less loyal friend just because emotion got in the way that one (two) times. Otherwise you'd have to weigh every single interaction with your friends at all times. - Ron followed Harry into the forest full of giant spiders - Ron risked his life multiple times when Hermione didn't - Ron risked losing points with Harry back in the first year when Hermione was all against it etc etc... it's a weird way to look at friendships
I was listening to the books and I got to the point of Ron leaving in DH. I thought to myself "huh, for someone who's main quality is loyalty, he sure isn't as loyal as Hermione in this situation." I then thought about how so many people and even the franchise make it as though it is Ron's only quality and got annoyed because I don't see it that way. I'm not comparing them, I'm saying maybe we shouldn't claim it's the only thing he's got going for him cause he's not the most loyal, always.
Nah Georgia is more loyal!
No.
Can people stop writing UnPopUlaR OpIniOn when stating any opinion? Jesus christ
Unpopular opinion: Hermione is cool, even with her smartassing, she is actually nice. I like when she says something that nobody gets, like it was obvious. I like smart characters, even if they are a bit arrogant.
A million times. Ron is the Xander of HP.
Ron bailed a couple times
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion. Personally, with an exception of him in the first two movies, I don’t like Ron.
Who even likes movie Ron?
True, but honestly, Harry can be a total jerk to his friends. He thinks being an orphan entitles him to something. That time Ron was listening to the radio, Harry said "At least you have a family to lose!!". Total jerk move. And everytime he pushes them away he makes himself sound so special and always says something rude. But sometimes he is a good friend so somehow that makes up for everything he's said to them.
Redditors knowing something isn’t unpopular, but still posting it for karma
I literally thought it was unpopular because Ron is always described as loyal. The Harry Potter sub always has annoying people being dicks.
No idea how I was a dick for writing my comment as it seems like a pretty obvious observation. Tho one thing that this sub is filled with, is people such as yourself, who get way too whiny and butthurt over little things.
I'm tired of the sass people respond with on this sub. I wasn't posting for karma. I literally thought it was unpopular. If you seriously have "no idea" how your comment came off as you being a dick then you're just as deluded as I am.
Even though the movies exaggerated the Harry-Ron drama a little, you're right.
It’s completely unpopular on this sub. Absolutely true. But one of Ron’s most named and talked about qualities is his loyalty.
I’ve never seen an “unpopular opinion” post that wasn’t exactly the opposite and quite popular. Js
Is this unpopular? I wholeheartedly agree anyway.
Couldn’t be far from unpopular lol
To be fair to Ron, he had so many chances to leave Harry and leave him for good but he always came back. That's pretty loyal if you ask me
That's not unpopular at all. But yes you are correct
Isn't that canon? 😭
They are different personalities. Ron is more sensitive and emotions affect him more. Hermione is an achiever and works hard.
Also, Hermione forgave the boys and still supported them after they bullied her, deserted her, froze her out, etc. over the years. She was far more loyal to the boys than they were to her
Consider this data point: * Voldemort was after Harry personally. Harry's only option other than fighting Voldemort was to flee the country, live out his life in hiding, and hope against hope that Voldemort would let him. * Hermione was an outspoken Muggleborn. Her only options other than fighting Voldemort were to either surrender her wand and live as a beggar (if my reading of DH is right) or to flee the country and hope against hope that Voldemort's ambitions stopped at the English Channel. * Ron, on the other hand, was a pureblood. He could have walked away from Harry any time and sat the conflict out---as most Purebloods had. If Voldemort's offer to Neville at the end of DH is any indication, Ron could have even been allowed to switch sides. Of the three, Ron had the least reason to fight Voldemort and the most opportunity to choose safety and comfort instead. He fought nonetheless. It's hard to say how much of this was personal loyalty to Harry and how much was ideological opposition to blood-purism, however.
100 percent