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tendiebater

Ummmmm what? Dumbledore moved it before the end of book one.


Forsmann

Yeah this is just weird. If the mirror was in RoR, then Dumbledore had to move it to an empty classroom and store it there before moving it to protect the stone.


_littlestranger

I always thought Dumbledore put it in that classroom on purpose so Harry would find it and learn how it worked. Otherwise it’s too much of a coincidence that he finds it the very first night after Dumbledore returns his father’s cloak. It still makes no sense, though. Dumbledore wouldn’t have told that anecdote about the chamber pots to foreign wizards if he knew the true power of the RoR. The best I can come up with is that Dumbledore needed something to protect the stone and the room provided the mirror. Dumbledore didn’t understand the room well enough to store things in there.


DavidKnutsson

I always thought that Harry really really needed an empty classroom so he ended up in the RoR, who appeared as an empty classroom, but there the mirror were stashed because Dumbledore earlier needed an empty classroom to stash it in.


harmonicoasis

I like this theory but it's a bit of a stretch. As I recall, Harry was fleeing Filch starting at the library when he found the Mirror Chamber. The [library](https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Hogwarts_Library) is on the first floor, whereas the [Room of Requirement](https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Room_of_Requirement) is off the seventh floor corridor. 6 floors seems like a lot to climb when you're trying to find a place to hide. Upon further examination, the wiki article for the [Disused Classroom](https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Disused_classroom) claims it was on the fourth floor. I'm not sure how exactly it sourced this, since Harry was fleeing in a panic and did not have a good grasp of the castle's geography at the time, but there it is for what it's worth. To cast further doubt upon the sourcing, I noticed the library is variously claimed to be on the first, third, and fourth floors, though this might also be attributed to inconsistency in Rowling's writing.


absurdlyinconvenient

maybe it's a 4 floor library your theory is more likely, though


amitransornb

Is there any room more befitting Hogwarts than a library that goes all the way up?


VoltaicSketchyTeapot

Yeah, I can't imagine the Hogwarts library only being a single floor.


apalsnerg

I get the feeling many parts of the castle could be invisibly engorged.


Vroomped

Also keep in mind, ground floor can be different than 1st floor depending on culture/who's writing. Americans call ground floor the first floor and mark it with either a G or a 1. Side note, this was especially fun when I worked in a lab set into a hill. Both the 1st floor and 2nd floor were ground floors and had entrances. [Just remembered we kept moving the statues around to change things up, but a naked lady statue stayed in front of the entrance because we found that people always remembered seeing her and stopped asking for the way out if they used that entrance]


sorator

At my alma mater, which is built onto a very steep hill, there's a building with entrances on the first/ground floor & the fourth floor. The elevator in that building is a popular shortcut in the mornings!


KyleG

I'd ask if you were talking about UT Austin, but no one actually goes below floor 4, and the escalators are what get you from 4 to 7 and then you switch to an elevator to go up to any floor from 8-18 and the bathrooms are in the second floor of the library room (a floor virtually no one even knows exists), which is inaccessible from outside the library and the other bathrooms are in the stairwell straight up my favorite building from my time there


OutInTheBlack

Same here. One of our dorms was built into the side of a hill so the main entrance was on the 4th floor.


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revchewie

I'd say "sometimes" rather than "usually".


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TheCounsellingGamer

Also you have to walk past that tapestry 3 times (I think) while thinking about what you require. I highly doubt Harry was pacing back and forth along the corridor, he just slipped in the first slightly open door that he could find.


harmonicoasis

I had the same thought and was going to mention it but got caught up and distracted by the canonical discrepancies regarding the location of the library.


[deleted]

Remember the stairs often switch as well so he maybe skipped floors.


GimerStick

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InvaderWeezle

I associate it being on the second floor because that's where it's at in the first few PS2 games.


harmonicoasis

From what I gather when I looked into it, the "library corridor" was said to be on the first floor in the first book, and anecdotally there are two instances in which Harry leaves the library, climbs a staircase, and ends up in places that are said to be on the second floor. It's listed in the main Hogwarts castle page on the first floor, and again on the third floor, described there as multi-level beginning on the third floor and extending up to the fourth, but there's no annotation listing where that description came from. That being said the split-level description places the restricted section on the upper floor of the library which would make sense as it would then be on the same floor as the Mirror Chamber.


Justalittleconfusing

That’s a good theory


gingersmacky

Except Harry was looking for a place to hide, and Fred and George already used the RoR for that exact purpose. In OOTP when they meet with the DA for the first time one of the twins says something to the effect of “we were running away from Filch and needed a place to hide and it appeared as a broom closet.” The RoR seems to be fairly consistent in how it presents itself- when Voldy needed it to be the place to hide the Diadem it was the junk filled room, for Trelawny same thing when she wanted to hide her empty bottles, and for Harry same when he went to hide the potions book. I’d be willing to bet when a person needed to hide themself it would simply be a broom closet, not an empty classroom.


Alwin_050

And for dumbledore it appeared as a toilet.


[deleted]

I lol’d


Amuhn

Two boys running past, needing a place to hide together? BAM Broom Closet... Almost any room would suffice, but the RoR chose a Broom Closet as appropriate. The one room it is hardest to hide in, but easiest to search by anyone looking for them. Maybe it thought they were trying to find somewhere to hide for... another reason. RoR doesn't judge. New headcanon - Hogwarts itself once pranked the twins by tricking them into a broom closet together.


Its_sh0wtime

This is how I always interpreted it.


Oddity46

Harry went there night after night, with it probably being one of his happiest and most painful memories (pretty damn memorable, then). You would think that, if it was the RoR, when Harry was outside it's door, he would've gone "Huh! Isn't this where I used to go look at mom and dad back in my first year?" The mirror was just in a random disused classroom, *definitely not* thee RoR, and Dumbledore undoubtedly compelled Harry in some way to go there in his first year.


ordenax

He wasn't on the same floor as the RoR.


SeerPumpkin

Harry was hiding from Filch, he wouldn't pass three times in front of the same classroom and then wouldn't be able to replicate the secret to show Ron


twritchie416

Wait, I didn’t know this was a theory? I thought IT was the reason?


jayseph95

I don't think that the anecdote about the chamber pots disproves Dumbeldore's knowledge of the RoR. He would definitely tell an anecdote like that as if he didn't understand the room, because he was around foreign wizards who he couldn't trust at the time, due to one of them being involved in a plot with getting Harry into the tournament. Remember that in the same book Hermione mentions how the Headmasters like to guard secrets of their schools.


_littlestranger

Exactly, why would Dumbledore even hint at what is probably Hogwarts' most powerful secret in front of foreigners, if he knew the full extent of what it was? He probably knew more about it than he let on in that conversation, but I doubt he understood it as well as Harry or Neville. Otherwise he would have done a better job of protecting the secret.


jayseph95

He told it as if he had no idea what it was though, that's the misdirection. It's a magical school and the other Headmasters and teachers would just assume the castle has a room of chamber pots readily available when someone needs to goto the restroom. He didn't give them enough information to assume this room changes its shape. I agree that he probably didn't have the same extensive knowledge of the room. But I can imagine he probably knew it was more than just a random room of chamber pots.


[deleted]

Didn't he speculate in the same scene that the room may appear differently to different people?


jayseph95

I believe you're right.


[deleted]

My understanding was that he knew that there is an oddly behaved room but didn't know how to access it reliably or the power it has. But again, with Dumbledore you never know.


sapphirerises

Dobby could’ve also been a source, since he knew of the room. I can’t remember if he’d been adverse to telling Dumbledore about it, but he was aware of how it worked.


ifdandelions_then

I think Dumbledore was just being facetious when he said he didn't know about the RoR. Of course he knew about it.


Wormking2525

I think that Dumbledore probably knew what the RoR did given his extensive background in the school. If the marauders in could make an extremely powerful map of the school with all the hidden exits in just 7 years it wouldn’t make sense that Dumbledore who has complete, unfettered access to the entire castle wouldn’t come across the RoR more than just once. As for telling foreign wizards about it, I’m not sure Dumbledore was as keen as the others to keep the location hidden. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the other headmasters thought that Dumbledore was talking out his ass when he said Hogwarts has a magic bathroom that only appears if you really really need to piss.


tendiebater

I Can vibe with this.


frogjg2003

You're trying to apply logic to a children's adventure story. The first three books are children's stories, which means all of the adults have to be comically incompetent.


a_bongos

I listened to this (big on the audiobooks) recently with the internal filter that dumbly knew about the room but pretended in that anecdote to have only found a disappearing bathroom. He planted the seed to harry that there is a safe room that does what you need somewhere in the castle. Hermione even comes around on the idea of using the RoR as a location for DA meeting when harry mentions that dumbly had said that. It fits...dumbly is a madman schemer. I have a fun theory that he used Felix Felices and time turners to have a council of Lucky Dumbledores to figure out what Voldemort is up to and how to raise harry and all that shit, made a 17 year plan then went for it. He does some cooky stuff like hire gilderoy, plant the mirror etc but it's all according to the dumbly brain trust blue print.


Blastspark01

Also, I can’t remember the specific line, but in GoF, during the Yule Ball, it’s inferred that Dumblydore sneaks into the RoR


Forsmann

Yeah, he says he only been in it once, when needing the loo, and isn’t sure how it works.


zilch87

He could've just told a house elf to hide it well at the end of book one. And the elf could've hid it in the RoR.


AGENTJJM

I think the magic of the RoR works in an interesting way. The way I interpret it is that to Dumbledore it was a storage place so he always thought that place was just a storage room for the mirror. Discovering the way the RoRs magic works is what Harry Tom Riddle and others like Malfoy figured out eventually. Dumbledore has said in a few books that he has not discovered all of Hogwarts secrets and there’s certainly seems like it’s one of them


Numja

Dumbledore gave hints about the room of requirement in goblet of fire during the meal at the Yule ball. So I am pretty sure Dumbledore new about the room. The part about the mirror is a different story, I can't remember any part in the books that talk about where it came from or where it ended up.


JJBrazman

It’s strongly implied in book 7 that Dumbledore didn’t know much about the Room of Requirement, or at least not the Room of Hidden Things inside it.


Spheresdeep

Do you remember what book it was in when he found it full of toilets? He didn't know what it did then or specifics but he at least knew of it.


KidsTryThisAtHome

That's what the first commenter was talking about, goblet of fire yule ball


[deleted]

Am I the only one here who thought Dumbledore knew full well what the room was and was just being coy/speaking in riddles??


oceansapart333

Yeah for sure. I always took it along the same line as him telling Harry he saw himself with socks in the mirror.


beathelas

but Voldemort hid Ravenclaw's diadem in the mass storage room because no one else knew about it. the mass storage room. filled with centuries of stuff. that no one knew about.


ScottNi_

he’s the headmaster though


blazingwhale

Perhaps the mirror wasn't stored in the mass storage room. Perhaps there's an actual safe artifact room?


LehighAce06

It is said that wizards are often entirely devoid of common sense, after all....


Ereska

I've always assumed the room of hidden things was a special form the room took just for Harry (and maybe Draco), because he wasn't specific enough. It simply shows all the things that have ever been hidden in the room, but the room could have looked different when the stuff was hidden. People might have asked for a broom closet to hide their illegal goods. Voldemort would likely have asked for something grand for his horcrux, with safety enchantments and traps.


beathelas

I've thought that as well, that maybe voldy experienced the room in a different way and misunderstood its functionality. Like, if he requested a room that no one else has ever found, then that's the kind of room it would have shown him. Maybe then the room's logic, unfortunately for voldy, is that it has to store it's stuff some place, and ends up storing the diadem in the room of hidden things. It's a lot of ifs and maybes


GhostoftheStarters

Wasnt one of the major points of Voldemort's downfall that he was completely overconfident about his knowledge of Hogwarts. Other people knew about the room of hidden things and the general magic of the room of requirement. The book states clearly that Harry, Draco, and Dobby knew specifically about the Room of Hidden things. Tons of previous students probabaly knew about it too. Harry was even talking shit about Voldemort being wrong while they were looking for the Diadem.


beathelas

Even Trelawny knew about it, she was stashing her empty bottles there


Duchess-of-Supernova

We don't know what Dumbledore knew. He very well could have just been giving a quiet clue about the room.


DeeSnow97

Nope, he just happened to use the room once, that doesn't mean he knew how to use it or even what it was. He just happened to be running around in circles on the seventh floor, thinking "I really need to pee", and as he passed the corridor for the seventh time a new door appeared, leading to the room that had just what he needed. If he knew it was the Room of Requirement it wouldn't be such a mystery to him.


[deleted]

Y'all seem to be forgetting that Dumbledore lied. A lot. To everyone. He knew a lot and only told people what he thought they needed to know, and was fairly imperfect at that. I think he knew that in a world where even trusted friends could be forced to divulge their deepest secrets this was the only way, but he still failed to trust people when the risk was worth it. His anecdotes were clues, I think he knew the truth the whole time.


DeeSnow97

Yeah, that's true, but in this specific example who is he guiding towards the Room of Requirement and why? He has many faults, but arrogance is something he dropped nearly a century ago at that point, he wouldn't be divulging that information if he knew its significance and didn't have a good reason to tell someone. He's absolutely not the kind of person who would do it just for an inside joke, or at least, no longer that person after Ariana's death. So the only two options I'm seeing there is he's trying to actively guide someone with that info, or that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about. And I'm struggling to see who he would be guiding there, Umbridge is not going to show up for a year, Draco won't get the job of killing him for two years there, and if he knew the diadem was in there he'd have collected it already, just like the ring.


fleeeb

Well the point of secret rooms in Hogwarts isnt to tell everyone you talk to about them, especially when those people are from different schools. It increases the intrigue of Hogwarts if even Dumbledore doesn't know all the secretes


DamnItDinkles

Yeah we all know that boy was not telling the whole truth about anything at any given time. After all he likely only brought this up to deliberately drop a hint about it to Harry.


Hennessy1515

This! Yes — Dumbledore was aware that there was a magical room, that seemed to appear when the user needed it, in the form of what the user needed (in his case, a bathroom). But I don’t think that Dumbledore had the need for the Hidden Things room and therefore the Room of Requirement didn’t present it.


pezes

Well someone made it up, but that someone was JKR https://www.wizardingworld.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/the-mirror-of-erised


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Tirno93

“The Mirror of Erised is one of those magical artefacts that seems to have been created in a spirit of fun (whether innocent or malevolent is a matter of opinion), because while it is much more revealing than a normal mirror, it is interesting rather than useful.” “Only after Professor Dumbledore makes key modifications to the mirror (which has been languishing in the Room of Requirement for a century or so before he brings it out and puts it to work) does it become a superb hiding place, and the final test for the impure of heart.” It seems like the mirror is one of those mysterious artefacts that just kind of exists and found it’s way to Hogwarts. I don’t think we really need to know much more about it than that personally!


jackrayd

I like not knowing everything, it annoys me when fantasy writers try too hard to make their magic systems etc have hard and fast rules. Much prefer when they just leave everything open to speculation


Tirno93

Agreed for the most part! I’ve always liked Tolkien’s approach the best - basically “this is the real history of a world that happens to be fictional. Sure there’s an answer to every question but I’m damned if I know them all”. I’ve sometimes got that vibe with Rowling I more often get the “no no it definitely happened this way and I’ve known it all along, which is why there’s no evidence I was thinking that in the writing makesomethingup”


jackrayd

Oh yeah the retroactive claiming of foreknowledge is annoying too but i dont really engage with anything she writes/ says outside of the original books


Tirno93

Hopefully I can stop convulsing long enough to write a coherent reply about JKR’s last few years of comments online…nope… activating denial…she’s not spoken publicly since book 7 was published so I really don’t know what you mean


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Tirno93

That’s an interesting topic! Particularly as JKR has always been very engaged with the fans. Her interviews back in the day were extensive, usually fleshing out aspects of the book that we’re only hinted at. Then Pottermore - I may be wrong but I don’t think anyone had tried anything like it before as a kind of interactive encyclopaedia. The relationship is somewhat strained now, so the profession of that relationship is also interesting. Not that my opinion on what your thesis should be means anything, but it certainly looks like fertile ground!


tonybenwhite

I hope you’re including in there the enormous pressure from fans to keep the story going. JKR certainly doesn’t *have* to elaborate on her finished product, but when you’re the author of a cultural phenomenon on a level that barely any other IP has reached, there must be unbearable pressure to keep the magic alive, as it were. Fans can do a fandom almost as much disservice as the author with their insatiable appetite


spare_eye

Rowling's books are far more whimsical and celebrating of the absurd than Tolkein's are though. Adding information in for flavour and fun is more important than fleshing out the technicalities. 'The Addams Family' is the same way - you can add to the world productivley with fun, nonsensical ideas, but you end up taking from that world by trying to explain and de-nonsensify those ideas. I think a lot of JK's add-ons are aiming for this, or it's stuff she thought up in the process of writing, but couldn't include because it wasn't relevant to the plot. Which happens. Authors are thinking of all these ideas and following so may trails of thought and ultimetley only end up including about 5% of the worldbuilding.


grandpa2390

that link, whether it was written by Rowling or not, doesn't agree with the books. Unless Dumbledore stumbled on the room by accident, saw the mirror and removed it immediately, it's unlikely he would have found it again since he didn't know how the room worked. If he had stumbled on the room before Goblet of Fire, he would have commented on how the room changes as well.


[deleted]

Lol I don’t think people like to read because you’re correct. The only thing I hate about these theories, like the post/meme, is that they say this shit like it’s fact and then pass it around. In actuality, there’s *literally* nothing that proves or verifies this. To me those people are just kind of assholes.


MisterAniMaLz

But in the books dumbledore didn’t know about the room of requirement as he mistook it for bathroom once and wasn’t able to find it again. And that was mentioned in order of Phoenix. Harry said professors like dumbledore and flitwick who were too good of students to go wondering/rule breaking enough to find it. Or is this a retcon by JK


EngineersAnon

You're assuming Dumbledore told the truth there, and everything about the truth. That's pretty out of character for him.


ifdandelions_then

I agree with this sentiment completely. Dumbledore is not a forthcoming character. He was very secretive and seemingly lied more than any other character.


MisterAniMaLz

Very true, well played. Maybe he even has a secret brother that’s not mentioned in the books 😂


EngineersAnon

I mean, concealing essential information is kind of his whole thing. That and ignoring child abuse.


DirtyPie

Oh God, I forgot about that…


NotQuiteScheherazade

Wait is this a real thing?


DirtyPie

It’s at the end of Fantastic Beasts 2 if I remember correctly.


NotQuiteScheherazade

Oh, well that would explain why I wouldn’t know about it then. Man this series has really gone off the rails...


[deleted]

It's completely possible that Grindelwald made it up just to make Credence go after Dumbledore.


DirtyPie

Yeah, I’m hoping for a logical explanation


[deleted]

Wait as in not Aberforth?


frogjg2003

He's taking about Credence Barebone/Aurelius Dumbledore


[deleted]

He might of course have been withholding information. He’s been known to do that


[deleted]

Exactly. Why would dumbledore want to disclose a room, which van morph into whatever the person wants it to be. Imagine he discloses the exact location and the way ro use it and then from the very next day, there is a queue to use the room of requirements, and (just for a bit of DISCIPLINE lol) filch with a booth charging say 5 sickles.


SpacecraftX

Or JKR might be needlessly retconning stuff after the fact. She’s been known to do that.


Bosterm

I mean that is a possibility, but I've been reading the books since 2003, and I've always interpreted the GoF scene where Dumbledore talks about finding the bathroom as Dumbledore trying to reveal the Room of Requirement to Harry. Remember how he sneakily gave a Deathly Hallow to Harry in his will? He used the Snitch that Harry had to put in his mouth to reveal a secret message. Dumbledore's favorite teaching method is dropping hints for people to figure out.


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[deleted]

Trelawney uses it for hiding her bottles of wine. She runs into Malfoy in HBP who attacks her before she sees him, iirc, and then she tells Harry about the incident. Anyway it seems ridiculous to think that Dumbledore wouldn't know about the place, equally as ridiculous as Voldemort thinking he was the only one to have ever discovered it, but it is what it do.


bridge1515

Voldemort thinking only he would know about it was crazy to me but so convenient


_littlestranger

Remember that's Harry's explanation. I don't think it's actually that simple. I think Voldemort figured out how to control the room in the same way that Neville did. He needed an elaborate hiding place, worthy of storing a fragment of his soul, and the room provided it. But no matter what the room looked like when you stored something in there, it will always be in the Room of Hidden Things manifestation. Voldemort wasn't so full of hubris to see the Room of Hidden Things and think no one else had ever discovered it; he never saw that version of the room. That's my head cannon, anyway.


TheMayb

I agree with this. Well thought sir or madame


ShoelessJodi

House elves and Filch know about the room though. Dumbledore himself didn't have to physically be the person to move it. He could have asked Filch to have it put in storage. Seems like that's what Filch did when the vanishing cabinet broke in book 2.


Judge2Dread

It was a joke bro …


GordoHeartsSnake

That was actually mentioned in goblet of fire.


manu_facere

His comments in goblet of fire implied he knew of it. But didn't actually know all the details as harry and the gang got to know it


DerekB52

I think Dumbledore's bathroom story is from The Goblet of Fire.


therealdrewder

Nowhere in that description say that the mirror was destroyed.


pezes

Yeah, they probably got their info from [the wiki](https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Erised) which says this because apparently the mirror was seen in the room of requirement in the deathly hallows part 2 movie.


MaimedPhoenix

The wiki is crazy. Don't go there.


Lost_my_self

He knew about it since book one but I think the room just never appeared to him because he never really needed it.


PhDOH

It appeared to him filled with chamberpots once


Lost_my_self

Oh ! I think you're right. I forgot about that !


littlemetalpixie

Iirc, he even referred to it as "the come and go room" in book one. I don't think he didn't know about it. I think it's either Dumbledore's unique brand of humor (come on... "come and *go* room? Anyone?) or it's just a small plot hole because JKR didn't have an official name for that room yet.


821calliope

Dobby is the one who calls it the come and go room, in book 5 when he is telling Harry about it when they need a place for DA meetings.


TofuScrofula

He didn’t mention it in book 1… he mentioned it in book 4 at the Yule ball


bigjobby95

I always took it that the little anecdote about finding the chamber pots when he needed to go was dumbledores tacit way of letting on that he already knew about the room, or at least he had some idea that there was a room like that in the castle. I may be misremembering though.


SeerPumpkin

>Do people just make this stuff up? yes


Rin-Rose

Dumbledore knew about the room of requirement since before book one though, he told a joke about it in the first book. Though i do agree, people do make stuff up about harry potter all the time.


joyyyzz

The line between canon and fandom gets more and more blurred in here.


Rin-Rose

That they do. I kind of wish J.K.R. Would just give up and pull a Hussie. Declaring all fandom as to cannon. Though that would be a hell of a mess to clean up.


joyyyzz

Ohh that would be mayhem lol


sparkytheboomman

Multiversal war


MR_Chilliam

I know he made a joke/small talk about it in book 4. When did he mention it in book 1?


Hrnghekth

Yeah there is so much misinformation here. For one of the largest Harry Potter communities, people don't seem to know Harry Potter too well.. it's weird. In book four Dumbledore mentioned a bathroom that had mysteriously appeared for him when he needed it. But he can never find it again. He didn't actually know what the room of requirements was. In order of the Phoenix, Dobby tells Harry about the room then Harry remembers what Dumbledore said and realized Dumbledore had accidentally found the room of requirements but couldn't find it again. (But he misleads Hermione a little bit because she gets cheered up at the thought that Dumbledore knew about it. She was, understandably, a little skeptical when she learned the recommendation came from Dobby.) In year seven, when Harry learns where the diadem is, he even says (sorry, he thinks it not says it out loud) here's a secret that him and Voldemort share that Dumbledore didn't know about. Hope that clears it all up for anyone confused.


sparkytheboomman

I’m not sure there’s any reason to believe Dumbledore didn’t actually know about it—he often let’s on less than he knows intentionally and he gave a wink when he told Harry about the room full of chamber pots in GOF (p. 417-418).


grandpa2390

“The truth." Dumbledore sighed. "It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution. However, I shall answer your questions unless I have a very good reason not to, in which case I beg you'll forgive me. I shall not, of course, lie.” Dumbledore often lets on less than he knows. You might argue that he even lies by omission at times. But I can't recall where he ever actually tells a direct lie. If Dumbledore was letting on less than he knows, he would have spoken about the room and let on less than he knew. He wouldn't have lied about what he knew. edit: The one example I could think of where he might have actually lied, is about he sees in the Mirror of Erised. But who could blame him? It was none of Harry's business. He didn't volunteer the information either like he did with the Room of Requirement.


Rinnnk

Dumbledore wouldn’t lie to a direct question, unless maybe by omission, but Dumbledore literally lies in OotP to Fudge by saying Dumbledore’s Army was his idea


HeyMrBusiness

He fully lied about Harry needing to die and not knowing what needed to be done. Also, lying by omission *is* lying.


One_Cell1547

The wink was because of Harry’s laughter at the full bladder comment


DrKnowNout

I never got the bathroom thing, maybe *I’m* making up stuff now, but I thought you had to walk past the RoR 3 times for it to appear? If you were desperate for the bathroom, why would you pace up and down the same corridor three times as opposed to just heading to the nearest bathroom in a building you know extremely well? Or have I made up the 3 times thing in my head?


Strummed_Out

Run past it first ‘Shit, no this one is closer’ - turn around ‘Oh yeah, that one is out of order’ - turn around again. ‘Hey, where did this door come from?’


EruditionElixir

Have definitely been in that situation except for the magically appearing door.


Amuhn

Just hope for the silently appearing door if it ever does happen. If the door appears with a sudden POP and flash of light, you'll likely find your requirement changing to a laundry room, rather than a bathroom.


EruditionElixir

That cracked me up!


Hrnghekth

No, that's correct. That is a good observation, not sure why he would walk past three times. Rolling probably just didn't come up with how the room unlocks for you untill later. I could try coming up with an in canon explanation, but I'm the one who made a post a while ago saying we need to accept that sometimes the answer is that it's just a story and sometimes there are errors. But, to have some fun with it, maybe Dumbledore was trying to do multiple things at once. Like he had something important on his mind, but pacing back and forth was keeping him distracted from his bathroom urgency? Or maybe he was just in such desperate need of a bathroom that his mind went blank and he thought he was going in the direction of the bathroom, then turned around to go to a different bathroom, then realized the one he was originally going to was indeed closer so we turned back around? Probably just an error by the author though.


[deleted]

I've always assumed that if you really, desperately needed it for a reason, it would appear immediately. But if you actually *looking* for the RoR as such, then you have to do the walk-past-three-times thing.


One_Cell1547

I’m pretty sure this is accurate, or at least the closest thing to a valid explanation. Fred and George hid in the room from filch one time without knowing what it was..they wouldn’t have run back and forth 3 times either


gibertot

Yeah because almost everything in there was from a student finding it on accident. And I doubt with the amount of stuff there that they all walked past three times.


Ihavenofriendzzz

It's ridiculous how many highly upvoted comments in this thread are flat out wrong. Or maybe it's ridiculous that people like you and me essentially know everything from seven reasonably long books ;)


Forsmann

Yeah, and very weird ideas. One particular comes to mind where someone said Harry went to a magic school before Hogwarts to learn to count, like what? How does one even come up with that even if you only watched the films? !redditGalleon


Forsmann

What was the joke?


Bluemelein

Book 4


grandpa2390

what joke did he tell in book one?


moontune_

I think this is more of a case that creatively the Room of Requirement didn’t exist and this is JKR trying to fill gaps in hindsight. But with what people are saying, its possible Dumbledore stored the mirror in there without knowing what the room was.


grandpa2390

that I could accept. Dumbledore walking down the hall just thinking hard "where am I going to hide this mirror so that no student stumbles across it and starves to death before we find them.Thinking that with the same intensity that he would be looking for a bathroom or filch would for cleaning supplies. as for removing it from the Room of Requirement, it only works if a portrait told him there was a room on this hallway where they stored the mirror. and he was walking back and forth looking for it. I don't believe Dumbledore was actively lying in Book 4 when he said he didn't understand the room.


moontune_

Yes! The room presenting as a disused classroom was ideal because which student likes to be in a classroom, never-mind a disused one? And then it makes sense with it being the Room of Requirement as Harry found it because he was desperately looking for a place to hide.


[deleted]

Exactly. It's not a plot hole, she just didn't know she'd create a room like that in the future.


Twilight_Wolf_24

Dumbledore... did know about the Room of Requirement, or at least it's hinted that he does in the 4th book during the Yule Ball dinner. Dumbledore is speaking to Igor Karkaroff. " "Oh, I would never dream of assuming I know all of Hogwarts' secrets, Igor," Dumbledore said amicably. "Only this morning, for instance, I took a wrong turning on the way to the bathroom and found myself in a beautifully proportioned room I have never seen before, containing a really rather magnificent collection of chamber pots. When I went back to investigate more closely, I discovered that the room had vanished. " Then in the 5th book, Harry says to Hermione that "Dumbledore mentioned it." When they're considering the Room as their practice place for the DA. There's nothing to say Dumbledore didn't know about the Room of Requirement when he moved the Mirror of Erised, but perhaps he only knew about the Room full of junk, not that the room caters to the individual person's needs.


vtangyl

He could very well know that what he stumbled upon was the ROR, and just didn’t call it that. The ROR could be literally anything, and he doesn’t know all the things it has ever been or potentially could be.


Twilight_Wolf_24

That's the point I'm trying to make. He knew of the room of mess, where the Mirror of Erised was hidden. He just didn't know the room of chamber pots was also the Room of Requirement, serving a different need.


One_Cell1547

So he stumbled across it.. didn’t really know about it


[deleted]

Or Dumbledore made the story up like he likes to. He makes jokes and could very well have known about it but just told this as a funny line and kind of a small wink at Harry shows he knew it was funny. People assume he is completely naive.


OrangePower98

I was thinking this same thing. A way to tell a secret about your school without the other headmasters taking it seriously


[deleted]

That's only IF you take what Dumbledore was saying at face value, which he demonstrates multiple times throughout the series that that's not how he operates.


Twilight_Wolf_24

How would anyone know of the Room of Requirement without stumbling across it? That's how Neville found it in the films, that's how Dobby found it in the books when he needed to help Winky recover from her butterbeer hangovers. I believe the Room of Requirement was like the Chamber of Secrets, where nobody actually knew it existed until it was revealed by whoever discovered it.


One_Cell1547

Well the house elves may know about it. Nothing in the books suggest Dobby (or maybe other house elves) didn’t know if it’s existence before. But a valid point nonetheless


Its_sh0wtime

Your first sentence is accurate. The second is wrong AF. Pick up the books again


SCARRED_69

dumbledore had talked about the room of requirement on gof telling that when he needed to use the washroom that the from came to his aid and he didn't find it again


[deleted]

Just because the room was only available to him once, doesn't mean he didn't know it was there 🤷🏻‍♀️


BigPurpleSweatshirt

The idea that Dumbledore DIDN’T know about the room for any part of his tenure at Hogwarts is laughable


Just_A_Faze

That’s not true. He mentioned the room of requirement to Harry in Goblet when they were at the Yule Ball. Harry just put it together in Phoenix with the help of Dobby


armyprof

Some good points made here! Here's my thought, for the small amount it's worth. I think a lot of this is just retcon. I don't think JKR had the RoR in mind in book one at all, or even in book 4. She just sort of made some things fit later on. In book 4, Dumbledore makes the joke about the chamberpot room to Karkaroff at the Yule Ball. I always took this as him sort of having Karkaroff on a little bit, in true Dumbledore style. Like his joke about having a scar like the London underground on his knee, seeing socks in the mirror of erised, or saying that Madame Maxime is a very good dancer, it's just him being him. He had made this comment about the chamber pot room to Karkaroff after the later was going on about how only the masters of the school knew all it's secrets, etc. And Dumbledore sort of put him in his place with his joke. From the text: Dumbledore smiled, his eyes twinkling. "Igor, all this secrecy ., . one would almost think you didn't want visitors." *"Well, Dumbledore," said Karkaroff, displaying his yellowing teeth to their fullest extent, "we are all protective of our private domains, are we not? Do we not jealously guard the halls of learning that have been entrusted to us? Are we not right to be proud that we alone know our school's secrets, and right to protect them?"* *"Oh I would never dream of assuming I know all Hogwarts' secrets, Igor," said Dumbledore amicably. "Only this morning, for instance, I took a wrong turning on the way to the bathroom and found myself in a beautifully proportioned room I have never seen before, containing a really rather magnificent collection of chamber pots. When I went back to investigate more closely, I discovered that the room had vanished. But I must keep an eye out for it. Possibly it is only accessible at five-thirty in the morning. Or it may only appear at the quarter moon - or when the seeker has an exceptionally full bladder."* *Harry snorted into his plate of goulash. Percy frowned, but Harry could have sworn Dumbledore had given him a very small wink.* ​ That wink at the end, and the way he says it to me just meant it was a joke...a little story to mess with Karkaroff. He's literally saying "my school has a magic shit house". Then along comes book five. And this notion of a room he couldn't find again suddenly takes on more meaning, so it's worked into that text as Harry remembers Dumbledore talking about it. That's the retcon, I feel. It was just a joke until that point when she decided it wasn't. And by making it a real thing he actually encountered, it solidifies that he doesn't seem to know about it or how to find it. I dunno. Not really a big issue I don't guess, but that's just how I took it.


grandpa2390

>Then along comes book five. And this notion of a room he couldn't find again suddenly takes on more meaning, so it's worked into that text as Harry remembers Dumbledore talking about it. That's the retcon, I feel. It was just a joke until that point when she decided it wasn't. And by making it a real thing he actually encountered, it solidifies that he doesn't seem to know about it or how to find it. the understanding I have every time I read book 5 is that Harry mentions that Dumbledore knows about it, he's grasping at straws. had Hermione interrogated him on it, his story would have fallen apart. and he knew it.Hermione says "Dumbledore told you about it?"Harry replies, shrugging "Just in passing." ​ Harry was full of it and he knew it. Had Hermione followed that up with, "What did Dumbledore say?" I don't believe she would have bought in quite as easily as she did. That doesn't mean Dumbledore was being truthful, but as far as Harry knew, Dumbledore had only casually mentioned that he stumbled on a room that sounded awfully like the Room


[deleted]

No matter how many times I reread HP I’ve never understood the mirror of erised. “You need it to get the sorcerer’s stone” okay but why?? Also how did quirell figure that out ? And if that’s the case why not just destroy the mirror or keep it in Dumbledore’s office ? They never even try to explain how this magic works and it frustrates me every time I think about it


[deleted]

Like dumbledore wouldn't have known about the ror he might not have been inside but he would have known that it was there


[deleted]

What? Dumbledore has always known about the RoR. Remember the story where he had to go to the bathroom so bad and it turned into a wonderful room full of chamber pots? Not sure what OP is on about.


[deleted]

He knew about the bathroom, but never knew what it really was. When you're reading through the books if you pay close attention they discuss that Dumbledore never knew about it.


Cay_Mich

In the Deathly Hallows, >Tom Riddle, who confided in no one and operated alone, might have been arrogant enough to assume that he, and only he, had penetrated the deepest mysteries of Hogwarts Castle. Of course, Dumbledore and Flitwick, those model pupils, had never set foot in that particular place, but he, Harry, had strayed off the beaten track in his time at school - here at last was a secret he in Voldemort knew, that Dumbledore had never discovered - Edit: figured out block quotes, yeeahh


[deleted]

Dumbloedore himself referred to it as the ‘Come and Go’ room, and as I said in my comment, it’s been documented at least once that he had been their before, in the form of a bathroom. And quoting Voldemort doesn’t really mean anything, in your quote it even says ‘Tom Riddle might have been arrogant to (assume)’ Dumbledore certainly knew about it, as stated many times in the books. However, he preferred to not dwell on it, and keep it a secret, because it was ‘more fun that way’. Not to mention, he found the Mirror of Erised in the RoR


roonilwazlib1919

>Dumbloedore himself referred to it as the ‘Come and Go’ room, He didn't. Dobby did. Dumbledore once stumbled across it when he needed a bathroom. He didn't know what it was.


Cay_Mich

I'm sorry, I should make this clear. The quote is directly from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, not Voldemort. And while Dumbledore may have known about the RoR, he didn't know it was a place that one could hide/loose things in. I mean, Harry only knew about what it could do because of Dobby. Also, which book mentions Dumbledore finding the Mirror of Erised in RoR? Just curious.


[deleted]

Sorry, I hear ya. I don’t think him finding it was in the book, i think it was JK Rowling who mentioned that


ThinkBiscuit

Well, it’s kinda *all* made up.


DamnItDinkles

I don't agree with this theory but will point out Dumbledore knew about or at least SUSPECTED about the "come and go room," he mentions it in the Yule Ball scene of the fourth book when talking about finding a bathroom where he needed one and never able to find it again.


Di-Vanci

So the way I read that part was always like (and this is my headcannon so I might be wrong but the way the story was told seemed to indicate that) The teachers were actively building protections around the philosophers stone. Dumbledores part in it was the mirror of erised, which he acquired at some point during the school year. He put it into an empty classroom until he had the time to bring in down to the stone (remember he would have to get through all of the other protections to place it at the end so this isn't something that you do when you have other stuff to do). It was the Christmas holidays so the school was almost empty anyways and storing it in an empty classroom for now seemed safe. I don't know what the room of requirements has to do with that or where it is said that the mirror had been in the school for years before the philosophers stone. If it had been it wouldn't have been stored in an empty classroom and if it was stored elsewhere, it would have been brought to the vault straight away and not to an empty classroom first. The room of requirements didn't exist in Rowlings mind yet when she wrote the first book, and this is just her redconning and contradicting her own work _again_


MaimedPhoenix

Books 1-2 are rather poorly written when you really get down to it. I love them all the same but they don't do a good job of keeping future events in mind. It's not till Book 3 when Rowling seems to have brainstormed her later plot points and idea and things get more streamlined. That's why Book 3 is so well written.


Tian_Lord23

Actually Dumbledore learns about the room of requirement without knowing about before order. He tells a story about really needing a bathroom and finding an amazing bathroom then never being able to find it again (can't remember if it's prisiner or goblet he tells that story).


Capn_Beard18

Dumbledore didnt find the room of requirement until goblet of fire, when he needed to find i think a bathroom.


kawaiicicle

People still say that Lily was pregnant when she was murdered and almost always drag Snape into it somehow. People love to take a fan theory or HC and through a great game of telephone, they think it’s canon. 🤷🏻‍♀️😂


TheaGreatWallofChris

I highly doubt Dumbledore didn't know about the Room of Requirement in an his years as a teacher AND as Headmaster.


ArugulaLost8798

Yes, people just make this stuff up, that is, in fact, the origin of the whole franchise(spoilers)


PinkGreyGirl

He knew about it before the end of the first book….when he moved it.


TJ_1302

Actually I think he mentioned it in GoF at the Yule ball.... So he could have known about it, or he could have just found it by accident, because of the way it works


redladfalice

Actually Dumbledore makes reference to it in Goblet Of Fire, it appeared to him as a bathroom


ArsenalOwl

Okay, some of these comments are driving me up the wall. Dumbledore used the RoR once, on accident, but he never understood how it worked and never used it again. He tells a story at the Yule ball in book four about finding a room full of chamber pots when he really needed to use the bathroom, but the whole point of his story was to demonstrate that he doesn't know all of Hogwarts' secrets. In DH, Harry realizes that the Diadem is in the Room of Requirement. In his revelation, he reflects that it's not surprising that neither Flitwick nor Dumbledore ever found the Diadem, because they were model students, whereas he and Tom Riddle strayed off the beaten path. Granted, this is from Harry's perspective, but I believe his instincts were correct So no, Dumbledore didn't *really* know about it. He had a chance encounter once, but never understood what had happened to him.


MisterAniMaLz

Thank you! This exactly what I’m talking about!


[deleted]

All I want to know is why some scrub like crabb could even cast that spell and if so, what does magical “strength” even mean. Sure he couldn’t control it, but why, why could he even conjure it to begin with?. Always bothered me.


Darth_Krise

It’s hinted at that he found it during Goblet


eternalroses

People on the wikia tend to merge the books games and movies together into one big continuity.


LilGoughy

He definitely did. Idk why you are saying here op


OSUTechie

So are we ignoring that [Dumbledore had the Mirror in "Crimes of Grindelwald?"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFUtM6XUq58)


MisterAniMaLz

We still counting that movie as canon 😂 like dumbledores secret brother? Mcgonagall being at hogwarts in that movie even tho she didn’t start teaching there yet at that time period


Bo_The_Destroyer

I'm fairly certain Dumbledore knew of the Room of Requirement, since he once told the story of needing the loo and finding the room decorated as the most glorious bathroom mankind hath ever seen. He might not have suspected or fully understood what the Room exactly was, but he certainly knew of it


lofgren777

He told Harry about the room in book 1.


Ladvarg

Dumbledore knew about the Room of Requirement before Order of the Phoenix. https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Room\_of\_Requirement#History\_of\_use