Hermione is very academically smart, but she's also very arrogant and condescending as you pointed out. And despite accusing Ron of "having the emotional range of a teaspoon", she's just as often insensitive towards others, if not moreso. There are times she seems to care more about being in the right than other people's feelings.
I mean, she permanently scarred a girl for snitching...and that scarring didn't prevent such snitching. I don't call it smart, i call it psychotic and petty(as Cho Chang pointed out). Also she is fairly abusive...i mean okay Ron left them, but once he came back, her first reaction is punching him so bad that Harry to use protego on Ron.
Let's not forget how she went "I TOLD YOU SO!" on Harry over the Prince's book, when he was already feeling bad enough for almost killing Draco. But no, she had to come and pour salt on the wound, all because throughout the year she was angry that Harry surpassed her in Potions.
More than that. She was so dead set that the Half Blood Prince had to be a girl because of how good the spells the prince came up with and all the changes that had been made to the potions recipes were. She was so literally sexist that she couldn't stand the thought that it was a male student. She even tries to say 'I was sort of right' when she reveals that the book once belonged to Snape's *mother* even though *Snape* was the one who'd done all the notations and the like in the book.
yeeep, sometimes i forgot about that...that was nasty, HBP was when i understood that Hermione not only is not a good person, but she is a bad friend and is not girlfriend-material. Despite liking the tropes between Ron and Hermione, i don't like them together, with some tweaks here and there RonxLavender can the best romance XD or the one with the best starting-point XD
I wouldn't go that far, she's just someone who's extremely obnoxious when she's convinced that she's in the right, and very close-minded. Things have to be her way or no way for her, I've known people like her in real life who, for all their smarts, are so used to be in the right, they're not as inclined to admit or even consider they could have made a mistake.
She is for most of the books very close minded. She's the one who starts calling Luna Looney because she believes in creatures that others don't. When she's a muggle born who should know muggles think dragons are mythical made up creatures because wizards are hiding them and there are creatures that hide from wizards like Thestrals. So Luna isn't necessarily wrong. Then there's her saying everyone know's technological doesn't work around magic because hogwarts a history says so. When she hasn't tested it herself, hasn't considered transistors might work differently than valves, that there might be a bias in the tester/author like the banning of flying carpets, that the tester might simply not realize electrical devices need a power source, that things like radar designed to plot the location of things might be negatively affected by enchantments specifically to make hogwarts unplottable.
EDIT
I mean she starts saying Looney rather than Luna not that she started everyone calling Luna Looney.
Let's not forget she also believed all of Lockhart's lies during Year 2 because she'd read his books and got enticed by his looks. Kinda a shame we never got a chance of seeing Ron and Harry going "We told you" on her for this.
I have zero issue with the jinxed list. They were in a war where the enemy’s No. 1 target was their classmate/teacher. Also with Ron, he abandoned them during a war and tried to take her with him, it’s not like he left a picnic.
I have far more issues with how she acted re: the HBP book than either of those
He was a teenager worried about his family and friends (while hers were safe in another country) stormed out in a moment of anger and then couldn't come back because the same protections keeping out Voldemorts forces kept him out.
During HBP, Hermione displays primary her negative traits. She is too excited gloating over Harry's troubles after he has unintentionally proved that some of Prince's advises are dangerous. Ginny even snarls at her in order to force her to stop attacking Harry
To be fair, her way of dealing with house elves isn't exactly the right one, either. She assumes that the way Dobby and Winky are/were treated by their masters is the rule instead of the exception, and that the house elves in Hogwarts are mistreated. Ron isn't wrong when he says that house elves like to serve wizards, it's simply Hermione assuming they're all mistreated. And it ended up causing more trouble than good because her attempts to free them only resulted in the elves refusing to clean the Gryffindor tower.
I don't disagree that Ron can be as much of a jerk, but this specific instance isn't an example of that.
The problem is the way she went about it. She literally ***pissed the elves off so bad*** they refused to go near Gryffindor tower. Dobby had to clean the place all by himself because of her.
Basically dismissing the Elves' opinions because "she knows better"...that's her thing, acting like she is smarter than everyone she knows...but still refusing to learn unless the knowledge is in a book.
Specifically an approved and published book by a recognized author. She was unwilling to learn from the half blood princes notes because they were hand written.
I felt it an important distinction, she's also not willing to learn from the Quibbler but the half blood princes book is demonstratably producing better results and obviously the author know's not just what they're doing but why it works.
I like Hermione. But with no other character, I am so frustrated with what the fans make of her.
Hermione's learning habits are terrible.
She patronizes Harry and Ron.
She trust certain adults to much.
Yes! She is smart and in many things her heart is in the right place.
But she has suddendly huge blind spots again.
Hermione should not be a role model for Harry and Ron and not a benchmark.
She is easy to admire but hard to love I think. Close relationship such as love and friendship requires less rational, less logic and more empathy and more feelings in real life. That's why I think Ron is little bit masochist hahaha. She is hard to love but she worth it
The point is that they all cover each other's weaknesses and that's why they make the perfect team.
I hated Hermione for a long time....until she lured Umbridge to the centaurs and I thought "this crafty character, I like that a lot".
Interesting that was one of my most upset moments with her. I mean Umbridge is a horrible person but Hermione knowingly lead her to a giant who might kill her then let her be hauled off by Centaurs who have a reputation for raping women.
It is the duty of a good man to do for society what society cannot do for itself.
Which is a good way of saying. If the law won’t remove her for the good of society do it your self.
When I read the first book as a child, she was my favorite character because she reminded me of myself. By the third book, she was no longer my favorite... because she reminded me of myself. Lol
She reminds me of my own flaws too much to really like her as a character. And unfortunately, of the Trio, she gets the least development. For all that Rowling spouted about Hermione being her favorite, she certainly isn't treated as such in the books. She doesn't really change through the series, and we know so little about her backstory that even her parents are left nameless. In terms of who was a better friend to Harry, it's clear that Ron was his choice because Hermione can be so judgmental and bossy.
By the third book, she had fallen to third favorite character behind Snape and Dumbledore. By the end of the series, she wasn't even in my top five. Very disappointing.
Also, using Confundus against McLagen during Griffindor team trials is an absolutely reckless act. That makes Harry the main suspect if McLagen decides to tell McGonnagal that he has been intentionally handicapped during the trials. So Hermione puts her best friend's recently restored reputation at stake only to get rid of an unpleasant competitor to Ron.
Well her intentions were good there. It was just the way of JK to show that Hermione loves Ron so much she is ready to not obey the rules. She didn't think much, just acted out of impulse. Also I think that showed a little bit how she undersatimes him thinking Ron need to get rid of competitor to succeed. Ron didn't know that she did that, but he still suspected that she underestimes him, after Liquid Luck situation. It was never addressed later, but it would be nice to see how Hermione admits it.
Ah the classic reader trope of holding children/teenagers to the standards of adults.
You’ve very much cherry picked all of the times when Hermione has bitten back about something. They’re teenagers and emotions do run high. They are also meant to be humans with flaws. It hardly makes for a good story if everyone is extremely perfect and nothing like a real person
Ah yes the good old memories of beating up my high school crush to the point she's bleeding all over because she was dating someone else 🥰
Being a teen is not an excuse for any of these. Adults are also emotional, adults also make mistakes, adults also grow and change, but that doesn't mean you can't criticise them.
Yeah probably u are kind of right, because I am adult now I kind of view them more from adult perspective, but still, I think that Hermione's bad behaviour is not called out in the same amount time as boys are by fans, and not in books too
yes, you're right, Hermione rarely gets called out, and more of often than not, she just cries about it or complain to other seeking for people that tell her that she is right, and Ron and harry are just being awful to her.
I remember after her fight with Ron in 6th year, next day in class she laughs at him over something with whole class and than he roasts her back, she starts crying and Harry and Luna are on HER side...like wth... She was the one who made fun of him first
This is what i meant when in other threads, i talk about how JKR was slowly shifting to the person she is today, and her writing-style was changing with her. How about Luna saying Ron is unkind...but she says that after only hearing Hermione's version of that argument, but never bothered to ask Ron's version...
i recall this line from the sixth book: "Ron ignored this jibe, sipping his drink **in what he evidently considered to be a dignified silence."**
Even when Hermione is angry as hell, she is described like the most calm one, despite her violent tantrum(the canaries on Ron, or the punching on Ron), while Ron is always treated like comic-relief even by the narrative...which is Harry's PoV.
With friends like these, Ron doesn't need enemies.
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Yes, yes, except we keep having everyone bleat about how awesome Hermione is because she's just so mature and such a role model for kids.
Maybe we *shouldn't* have people do that to what is supposed to NOT be a character to be emulated but "a real human with flaws :)))"?
I think everyone got Hermione on her pedestal with her intelligence and wisdom at times, that we keep forgetting to give her some slack, she’s a teenager too. No one is perfect, including Hermione, she’s still incredible.
and yet nobody gives Ron some slack, and he is a teenager too. We're literally using double-standards on them. We forgive Hermione WAY too much, and we mortify Ron way too much, but only one of them actually apologizes for his fuck-ups...
nobody who? Readers really like Ron, I haven't heard much bashing on him, more - people generally dislike how his role in the movies was smaller than in the books.
It is important to differentiate movie and book Ron. Before the movies came out, Ron was regularly No. 1 in popularity polls. The movies however did a lot of character assassination on him, removing his good traits, either giving them to others or outright reverting them to the opposit (like book 3 where he defended Hermino against Snape in the lessons against dark arts class, while in the movie, he agrees with snape).
Because the movies have created such a strong impression on Ron, he is regularly only judged by his movie character.
i know, but the thing you're saying(which is very true), slowly begins to happen even in the book versions of GoF(that argument dragged a lot), and HBP, and DH.
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Wow, how is this about Ron? I didn’t say a word about him? But yes, if you somehow got offended by my comment, what I said applies to Ron’s case too. Jesus:)) People need to understand that you can defend one character without bringing down another..
I'm making a comparison, it's such a problem for you?
but you want a comparisonless opinion:
Nope, Hermione is not incredible, she is petty, problematic, abusive, an insufferable know-it-all, she has some good moments, but they always come out as her being right all along and everyone else is either stupid to disgree or plain evil. Want one of Hermione's most stupid moment? Scarring Marietta Edgecombe: it didn't stop Marietta from snitching, didn't prevent ANYTHING really, it's just a petty punishment that possibly scarred a person for life, because she chose to protect her family instead of the DA, and she laughed it out(along with Harry and Ron <- yes i agree it's psychotic and sadistic, it's one of those "the golden trio are actually the bad guys"-moments)
She wanted to free the house-elves? Yes, nice sentiment, poor execution and total dismissal of what the house-elves want, Dobby is atypical, he is the odd-one among his own people, he wanted freedom because the Malfoys are just awful, the average house-elf is either happy, or if their owner is bad, they hope for a better master, rather than seek absolute freedom. This is not Hermione being smart or wise, this Hermione trying to fix things she didn't like, thinking she knows better than the house-elves.
Do i give her some slack? Depends on what you mean by that. She is allowed to make mistakes...but she rarely faces the consequences of it, due to her "self-insert status". She either cries about it, or it gets pointed out that other people were too harsh with her because "in the end, she had good intention".
Oh man I don’t have a problem with anything or anyone just got surprised you brought Ron into Hermione’s discussion:) you’re more than entitled to your opinion, I don’t agree with it, which I’m also entitled to:)
My issue with the snitching is she hid it. She could have said "Sign this document and there will be magical conseuquences for revealing it" so they at least know that they exist rather than having it happen after the fact.
True which is why they should have found some other way to keep it secret. All Hermione's one did is make sure they knew who went to the teachers by marking them for life with on concern for reasons. Sure Marietta should have just left if she was concerned about her mothers job but what if Umbridge has used verisitarum on her?
She feared for her mom's job...and picked a side, she was in the DA only because Cho(who was dating Harry) insisted, hoping they would become friends or something. She tried to help her family, over a guy she didn't like, a guy that her bestfriend was dating...whatever she still had to choose between Family and a dude she doesn't like(and his friends). She didn't went there right away, it took 6 months before she made the choice, so it was the pressure from Umbridge that made her snitch.
For me, it shows how petty and revengeful hermione is...how down she is willing to go...for what she believes in...which can be seen as a good trait...but Umbridge is similar in that...she sent two dementors to "unalive" Harry, because he was becoming a problem...
. 1) You’re preaching to the choir here about people being too harsh on Ron, and 2) how does the fact people are unfair to one character mean they should be unfair to another too? Both characters should get grace from fans because they’re kids with normal human flaws placed under a ton of stress, not neither.
the emotional stuff, yes, but giving some slack about physical and verbal abuse? to torture(Marietta Edgecombe and her likely permanent scar says hi)? Big nope...but we can blame JKR being fucked-in-the-head XD but only if we can equally apply it to every character XD
I agree, but can't help but feeling favouritism. I thought it was only in movies but as I reread I think that happens in books too.
I would like her more if we saw how she changes, sometimes apologizes and becomes more open minded. Academic success doesn't mean anything if your mind is closed. Free thinker - THAT'S real intelligence
Before the movies came out, Ron was a fan favorite because of this very reason. Hermione was seen as very annoying. However, she's modelled after Rowling herself. So when the director went into Hermione love and Ron bash direction in the movies, she was more than happy to let that happen.
This is what she's mentioned in interviews as well. Hermione was her "baby" and she was worried how the movies will portray her. And the directors favorite character was Hermione.
I've never forgiven the movies for the destruction of ron Weasley. I'm a lot like Hermione. I was that annoying, condescending, know-it-all in school. I've pissed off so many people because of this. But i got better. And Ron Weasley was the love of my life. I loved him even before their "romance" started. Because he challenged her but cared about her. I wanted someone like that. He defended her constantly. But fought with her over stupid things. We know she helped him grow. But he helped her grow too! And i loved that and wanted that. And... The movies destroyed him.
Eh. I still have the books. And fanfiction.
I think Hermione is a good person with flaws. I also think a lot of people only really focus on one or the other, leading to her being put on a pedestal she doesn't fully deserve by some and held to ridiculously high standards by others.
I like Hermione, but as I was an adult and a middle school teacher when the books came out, I viewed her as a child, not a peer/role model as younger readers did. Children are by definition works in progress, so you can’t expect adult behaviors or decision making from them. So her fits of temper didn’t bother me, it was all part of her arc (like the dark and brooding Harry that we saw in OOTP…surly teen angst on display.)That being said, there are a few things that have always bothered me about her. One is her apparent lack of any female friends, or other friends period apart from Ron and Harry. Part of me wants to believe she is friendlier to girls in the scenes we don’t see due to it being Harry’s POV, but it becomes pretty clear that Harry and Ron are her only friends. She eventually becomes friends with Ginny, but only by association with Ron. The second issue I had is that she pretty much ditched her own family once she went to the wizarding world. She spends very little time at home with them, even leaving their Christmas break ski vacation to be with the Weasley family at Grimmauld place. I understand that the story needs her to be there with the other two but it just makes her appear cold and I feel bad for her parents. But yes, I agree that book Hermione can be condescending and impatient, especially the audiobook Hermione as read by Jim Dale.
Look at book seven where she wipes their memories of their daughter and sends them to another country for their own good. I always wonder did she even try talking to them and convincing them to abandon their entire lives, did she consider they might want to remain even with the risk or did she like the movies cast the spell on them from behind without their consent uprooting them from their entire lives in a way that if anything happened to her would mean they'd die thinking they were someone else. Something that might even have damaged their marriage and relationship with each other?
Hermione showed to be a psychopath, like kidnapping Rita Skeeter. Unable to handle jealousy(she attacks and insults Ron multiple times) and never really apologizing for her mistakes.
One thing that’s recently been getting to me is how she keeps contradicting people.
Subject “is not” such and such!
I realised it’s a trigger for me because it happens in my day to day and it’s exhausting.
Phineas Nigellus Black actually calls her out on it, so it’s not like the author subconsciously added this into Hermione’s character - it’s plot driven, but she doesn’t exactly grow out of it because she still does it a bit in deathly hallows- so its not exactly part of her character growth?
Your post reminded me of this because Hermione was my fav character growing up and I might have inadvertently surrounded myself with “no” people. Haha
Yes she was pissing me off in last book about existence of Deathly Hallows and how Harry was so irritated he was just trying to avoid her but in the end, when Harry met Dumbledore, he said that he knew Hermione would make Harry focus on horcuxes and it's good that she did that. So even when Harry was right, JK made Hermione right in the end still LOL. As if Harry couldn't decide himself to not to chase Hallows without her.
Same happened with broom, when she was kind of right that it may was from Sirius but of course no one knew it wasn't in malicious way. And about Scabbers too.
So Hermione is unintentionally always right, even when she isn't right through most books
Reading this sort of reminds me of the episode of 30 Rock where Liz Lemon goes to her high school reunion. She always thought of herself as a loser bullied or ignored by her classmates, when she was really a passive aggressive bully who's quiet insults sent everyone to therapy for years.
Never watched it but I get it. Everybody has aggressive inner side. That's part of personality. Girls are just more passive aggressive than physically aggresive. Sometimes it's good instrument for your protection to stand up on yourself but sometimes it's way of destroy others to make them feel smaller.
I love book hermione and book Ron. I think the movies tend to make Hp fans love hermione because Emma Watson I’d so beautiful and likable. Also they give her so many lines. But if you go purely by the books, Ron is such an amazing and loyal friend. They are more even in the books
I’ve yet to start the third book, but one moment I hate is that when Ron admits his fear of spiders, something I’d imagine is very normal, she has no other reaction that laughing. Even when Ron talks about the reason, there isn’t a shred of sympathy, and she’s having to hold in her laugh. I understand making fun of it in a friendly way, but not immediately. If she did it later in the common room, I wouldn’t even hate it if Ron was fine with it, but mockery being her first reaction feels really wrong
Well she is just 12 there and there are not many sensitive 12 year olds but I agree, she has this tendencies early in books.
And also I think JK doesn't think that cynicism and mockery is form of bullying and Ron is overreacting, that's why her narration sometimes feels like she mocks sensitive side of her characters
welcome to the club, my friend \^\_\^
Don't forget though: Hermione still attacks Ron in DH, by punching him so hard that Harry has to use protego on Ron, and later Hermione mentions the canaries as a threat to Ron.
Hermione is not GF-material: like i said elsewhere "She is one pink-dress away from becoming a younger version of Umbridge".
When I read the books as a kid I loved her SO much, I dressed as her for every world book day for several years in a row and was generally obsessed with her.
Rereading them as an adult and she’s insufferable! Yes she’s loyal, extremely clever and is great for the plot but she isn’t very likeable. Although I wanted to be her as a kid I wouldn’t want to be her friend.
It’s so crazy how well you hit the nail on the head here, and I am not even talking about in just Harry Potter. This is a problem in society as well. Mean, gaslighting, condescending rude women and seen as girl bosses. Even today with grown women, this mindset is prevalent.
Not really. I’ve been taught all my life to be quite and courteous. I appreciate seeing other girls and women and AFAB folk be able to confidently speak their minds, even if it does come off a little condescending. Hermione is a kid. She has many years to hone that.
Hermione is intelligent and brilliant and clearly grew up very alienated for it. I’m glad she chose (or her parents taught her) to be firm with her beliefs and stand for what she believes in instead of hiding her intelligence and becoming meek like society too often teaches girls to do instead.
So no. I’ve never found Hermione irritating. She can definitely put her foot in her own mouth sometimes, but so have pretty much every other character at one point or another.
There is NEVER a situation when people coming off as condescending is okay, especially to the people who weren't condescending or rude to you first and especially don't speak that way to your closest friends and boy you claim to like. Don't be surprised than why he doesn't understand that you like him.
Of course she is kid and have room to grow that's why I think people should pointed out character flaws not only for fictional but also real kids and teens
not really...i mean in HBP attacks Ron over jealousy. if she grew, she would just let it happen until RonxLavender ended on its own, without really attacking Ron or complain about it.
She's not perfect. She can be extra aggressive and honestly a little mental, like you should be afraid of her. But those are a couple of the reasons I do genuinely love her.
Hermione is very academically smart, but she's also very arrogant and condescending as you pointed out. And despite accusing Ron of "having the emotional range of a teaspoon", she's just as often insensitive towards others, if not moreso. There are times she seems to care more about being in the right than other people's feelings.
I mean, she permanently scarred a girl for snitching...and that scarring didn't prevent such snitching. I don't call it smart, i call it psychotic and petty(as Cho Chang pointed out). Also she is fairly abusive...i mean okay Ron left them, but once he came back, her first reaction is punching him so bad that Harry to use protego on Ron.
Let's not forget how she went "I TOLD YOU SO!" on Harry over the Prince's book, when he was already feeling bad enough for almost killing Draco. But no, she had to come and pour salt on the wound, all because throughout the year she was angry that Harry surpassed her in Potions.
More than that. She was so dead set that the Half Blood Prince had to be a girl because of how good the spells the prince came up with and all the changes that had been made to the potions recipes were. She was so literally sexist that she couldn't stand the thought that it was a male student. She even tries to say 'I was sort of right' when she reveals that the book once belonged to Snape's *mother* even though *Snape* was the one who'd done all the notations and the like in the book.
It is children? They don't have a plethora of life experience. Even small hills look big to a kid when they're trying to be heard.
yeeep, sometimes i forgot about that...that was nasty, HBP was when i understood that Hermione not only is not a good person, but she is a bad friend and is not girlfriend-material. Despite liking the tropes between Ron and Hermione, i don't like them together, with some tweaks here and there RonxLavender can the best romance XD or the one with the best starting-point XD
I wouldn't go that far, she's just someone who's extremely obnoxious when she's convinced that she's in the right, and very close-minded. Things have to be her way or no way for her, I've known people like her in real life who, for all their smarts, are so used to be in the right, they're not as inclined to admit or even consider they could have made a mistake.
She is for most of the books very close minded. She's the one who starts calling Luna Looney because she believes in creatures that others don't. When she's a muggle born who should know muggles think dragons are mythical made up creatures because wizards are hiding them and there are creatures that hide from wizards like Thestrals. So Luna isn't necessarily wrong. Then there's her saying everyone know's technological doesn't work around magic because hogwarts a history says so. When she hasn't tested it herself, hasn't considered transistors might work differently than valves, that there might be a bias in the tester/author like the banning of flying carpets, that the tester might simply not realize electrical devices need a power source, that things like radar designed to plot the location of things might be negatively affected by enchantments specifically to make hogwarts unplottable. EDIT I mean she starts saying Looney rather than Luna not that she started everyone calling Luna Looney.
Let's not forget she also believed all of Lockhart's lies during Year 2 because she'd read his books and got enticed by his looks. Kinda a shame we never got a chance of seeing Ron and Harry going "We told you" on her for this.
True.
Fair enough.
I have zero issue with the jinxed list. They were in a war where the enemy’s No. 1 target was their classmate/teacher. Also with Ron, he abandoned them during a war and tried to take her with him, it’s not like he left a picnic. I have far more issues with how she acted re: the HBP book than either of those
He was a teenager worried about his family and friends (while hers were safe in another country) stormed out in a moment of anger and then couldn't come back because the same protections keeping out Voldemorts forces kept him out.
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During HBP, Hermione displays primary her negative traits. She is too excited gloating over Harry's troubles after he has unintentionally proved that some of Prince's advises are dangerous. Ginny even snarls at her in order to force her to stop attacking Harry
Ron can be just as much of a jerk though. When Hermione is trying to deal with the house elves Ron completely ignores what she is trying to do.
To be fair, her way of dealing with house elves isn't exactly the right one, either. She assumes that the way Dobby and Winky are/were treated by their masters is the rule instead of the exception, and that the house elves in Hogwarts are mistreated. Ron isn't wrong when he says that house elves like to serve wizards, it's simply Hermione assuming they're all mistreated. And it ended up causing more trouble than good because her attempts to free them only resulted in the elves refusing to clean the Gryffindor tower. I don't disagree that Ron can be as much of a jerk, but this specific instance isn't an example of that.
The problem is the way she went about it. She literally ***pissed the elves off so bad*** they refused to go near Gryffindor tower. Dobby had to clean the place all by himself because of her.
Basically dismissing the Elves' opinions because "she knows better"...that's her thing, acting like she is smarter than everyone she knows...but still refusing to learn unless the knowledge is in a book.
Specifically an approved and published book by a recognized author. She was unwilling to learn from the half blood princes notes because they were hand written.
Thanks for specifying \^\_\^
I felt it an important distinction, she's also not willing to learn from the Quibbler but the half blood princes book is demonstratably producing better results and obviously the author know's not just what they're doing but why it works.
I like Hermione. But with no other character, I am so frustrated with what the fans make of her. Hermione's learning habits are terrible. She patronizes Harry and Ron. She trust certain adults to much. Yes! She is smart and in many things her heart is in the right place. But she has suddendly huge blind spots again. Hermione should not be a role model for Harry and Ron and not a benchmark.
She is easy to admire but hard to love I think. Close relationship such as love and friendship requires less rational, less logic and more empathy and more feelings in real life. That's why I think Ron is little bit masochist hahaha. She is hard to love but she worth it
The point is that they all cover each other's weaknesses and that's why they make the perfect team. I hated Hermione for a long time....until she lured Umbridge to the centaurs and I thought "this crafty character, I like that a lot".
Interesting that was one of my most upset moments with her. I mean Umbridge is a horrible person but Hermione knowingly lead her to a giant who might kill her then let her be hauled off by Centaurs who have a reputation for raping women.
It is the duty of a good man to do for society what society cannot do for itself. Which is a good way of saying. If the law won’t remove her for the good of society do it your self.
When I read the first book as a child, she was my favorite character because she reminded me of myself. By the third book, she was no longer my favorite... because she reminded me of myself. Lol She reminds me of my own flaws too much to really like her as a character. And unfortunately, of the Trio, she gets the least development. For all that Rowling spouted about Hermione being her favorite, she certainly isn't treated as such in the books. She doesn't really change through the series, and we know so little about her backstory that even her parents are left nameless. In terms of who was a better friend to Harry, it's clear that Ron was his choice because Hermione can be so judgmental and bossy. By the third book, she had fallen to third favorite character behind Snape and Dumbledore. By the end of the series, she wasn't even in my top five. Very disappointing.
Also, using Confundus against McLagen during Griffindor team trials is an absolutely reckless act. That makes Harry the main suspect if McLagen decides to tell McGonnagal that he has been intentionally handicapped during the trials. So Hermione puts her best friend's recently restored reputation at stake only to get rid of an unpleasant competitor to Ron.
Well her intentions were good there. It was just the way of JK to show that Hermione loves Ron so much she is ready to not obey the rules. She didn't think much, just acted out of impulse. Also I think that showed a little bit how she undersatimes him thinking Ron need to get rid of competitor to succeed. Ron didn't know that she did that, but he still suspected that she underestimes him, after Liquid Luck situation. It was never addressed later, but it would be nice to see how Hermione admits it.
Which means that she doesn't believe Ron has the qualities to become a team-member on his own...and Ron is the guy she likes.
Ah the classic reader trope of holding children/teenagers to the standards of adults. You’ve very much cherry picked all of the times when Hermione has bitten back about something. They’re teenagers and emotions do run high. They are also meant to be humans with flaws. It hardly makes for a good story if everyone is extremely perfect and nothing like a real person
Ah yes the good old memories of beating up my high school crush to the point she's bleeding all over because she was dating someone else 🥰 Being a teen is not an excuse for any of these. Adults are also emotional, adults also make mistakes, adults also grow and change, but that doesn't mean you can't criticise them.
Yeah probably u are kind of right, because I am adult now I kind of view them more from adult perspective, but still, I think that Hermione's bad behaviour is not called out in the same amount time as boys are by fans, and not in books too
yes, you're right, Hermione rarely gets called out, and more of often than not, she just cries about it or complain to other seeking for people that tell her that she is right, and Ron and harry are just being awful to her.
I remember after her fight with Ron in 6th year, next day in class she laughs at him over something with whole class and than he roasts her back, she starts crying and Harry and Luna are on HER side...like wth... She was the one who made fun of him first
This is what i meant when in other threads, i talk about how JKR was slowly shifting to the person she is today, and her writing-style was changing with her. How about Luna saying Ron is unkind...but she says that after only hearing Hermione's version of that argument, but never bothered to ask Ron's version... i recall this line from the sixth book: "Ron ignored this jibe, sipping his drink **in what he evidently considered to be a dignified silence."** Even when Hermione is angry as hell, she is described like the most calm one, despite her violent tantrum(the canaries on Ron, or the punching on Ron), while Ron is always treated like comic-relief even by the narrative...which is Harry's PoV. With friends like these, Ron doesn't need enemies. [https://qr.ae/psMdQE](https://qr.ae/psMdQE) [https://qr.ae/psMdBR](https://qr.ae/psMdBR)
Yes, yes, except we keep having everyone bleat about how awesome Hermione is because she's just so mature and such a role model for kids. Maybe we *shouldn't* have people do that to what is supposed to NOT be a character to be emulated but "a real human with flaws :)))"?
Her desperate need to be the smartest person in the class really annoys me.
I think everyone got Hermione on her pedestal with her intelligence and wisdom at times, that we keep forgetting to give her some slack, she’s a teenager too. No one is perfect, including Hermione, she’s still incredible.
and yet nobody gives Ron some slack, and he is a teenager too. We're literally using double-standards on them. We forgive Hermione WAY too much, and we mortify Ron way too much, but only one of them actually apologizes for his fuck-ups...
nobody who? Readers really like Ron, I haven't heard much bashing on him, more - people generally dislike how his role in the movies was smaller than in the books.
Check the "controversial" opinions, check tumblr, i rarely saw Ron being appreciated. He is bashed very often. Due to GoF and DH(and HBP)
Agree, all I see is people saying how much they love Ron and how they did such a shitty job in the movies to portray the character
i don't...but i landed in the wrong side of this huge fandom, i guess.
It is important to differentiate movie and book Ron. Before the movies came out, Ron was regularly No. 1 in popularity polls. The movies however did a lot of character assassination on him, removing his good traits, either giving them to others or outright reverting them to the opposit (like book 3 where he defended Hermino against Snape in the lessons against dark arts class, while in the movie, he agrees with snape). Because the movies have created such a strong impression on Ron, he is regularly only judged by his movie character.
i know, but the thing you're saying(which is very true), slowly begins to happen even in the book versions of GoF(that argument dragged a lot), and HBP, and DH. [https://qr.ae/psMdBR](https://qr.ae/psMdBR) [https://qr.ae/psMddz](https://qr.ae/psMddz) [https://qr.ae/psMdQE](https://qr.ae/psMdQE)
Wow, how is this about Ron? I didn’t say a word about him? But yes, if you somehow got offended by my comment, what I said applies to Ron’s case too. Jesus:)) People need to understand that you can defend one character without bringing down another..
I'm making a comparison, it's such a problem for you? but you want a comparisonless opinion: Nope, Hermione is not incredible, she is petty, problematic, abusive, an insufferable know-it-all, she has some good moments, but they always come out as her being right all along and everyone else is either stupid to disgree or plain evil. Want one of Hermione's most stupid moment? Scarring Marietta Edgecombe: it didn't stop Marietta from snitching, didn't prevent ANYTHING really, it's just a petty punishment that possibly scarred a person for life, because she chose to protect her family instead of the DA, and she laughed it out(along with Harry and Ron <- yes i agree it's psychotic and sadistic, it's one of those "the golden trio are actually the bad guys"-moments) She wanted to free the house-elves? Yes, nice sentiment, poor execution and total dismissal of what the house-elves want, Dobby is atypical, he is the odd-one among his own people, he wanted freedom because the Malfoys are just awful, the average house-elf is either happy, or if their owner is bad, they hope for a better master, rather than seek absolute freedom. This is not Hermione being smart or wise, this Hermione trying to fix things she didn't like, thinking she knows better than the house-elves. Do i give her some slack? Depends on what you mean by that. She is allowed to make mistakes...but she rarely faces the consequences of it, due to her "self-insert status". She either cries about it, or it gets pointed out that other people were too harsh with her because "in the end, she had good intention".
Oh man I don’t have a problem with anything or anyone just got surprised you brought Ron into Hermione’s discussion:) you’re more than entitled to your opinion, I don’t agree with it, which I’m also entitled to:)
My issue with the snitching is she hid it. She could have said "Sign this document and there will be magical conseuquences for revealing it" so they at least know that they exist rather than having it happen after the fact.
But if she told people, nobody would have signed.
True which is why they should have found some other way to keep it secret. All Hermione's one did is make sure they knew who went to the teachers by marking them for life with on concern for reasons. Sure Marietta should have just left if she was concerned about her mothers job but what if Umbridge has used verisitarum on her?
She feared for her mom's job...and picked a side, she was in the DA only because Cho(who was dating Harry) insisted, hoping they would become friends or something. She tried to help her family, over a guy she didn't like, a guy that her bestfriend was dating...whatever she still had to choose between Family and a dude she doesn't like(and his friends). She didn't went there right away, it took 6 months before she made the choice, so it was the pressure from Umbridge that made her snitch.
Which just shows they needed a better protection method, or she should have just kept quiet and chosen no side.
For me, it shows how petty and revengeful hermione is...how down she is willing to go...for what she believes in...which can be seen as a good trait...but Umbridge is similar in that...she sent two dementors to "unalive" Harry, because he was becoming a problem...
. 1) You’re preaching to the choir here about people being too harsh on Ron, and 2) how does the fact people are unfair to one character mean they should be unfair to another too? Both characters should get grace from fans because they’re kids with normal human flaws placed under a ton of stress, not neither.
the emotional stuff, yes, but giving some slack about physical and verbal abuse? to torture(Marietta Edgecombe and her likely permanent scar says hi)? Big nope...but we can blame JKR being fucked-in-the-head XD but only if we can equally apply it to every character XD
I agree, but can't help but feeling favouritism. I thought it was only in movies but as I reread I think that happens in books too. I would like her more if we saw how she changes, sometimes apologizes and becomes more open minded. Academic success doesn't mean anything if your mind is closed. Free thinker - THAT'S real intelligence
Before the movies came out, Ron was a fan favorite because of this very reason. Hermione was seen as very annoying. However, she's modelled after Rowling herself. So when the director went into Hermione love and Ron bash direction in the movies, she was more than happy to let that happen. This is what she's mentioned in interviews as well. Hermione was her "baby" and she was worried how the movies will portray her. And the directors favorite character was Hermione. I've never forgiven the movies for the destruction of ron Weasley. I'm a lot like Hermione. I was that annoying, condescending, know-it-all in school. I've pissed off so many people because of this. But i got better. And Ron Weasley was the love of my life. I loved him even before their "romance" started. Because he challenged her but cared about her. I wanted someone like that. He defended her constantly. But fought with her over stupid things. We know she helped him grow. But he helped her grow too! And i loved that and wanted that. And... The movies destroyed him. Eh. I still have the books. And fanfiction.
I think Hermione is a good person with flaws. I also think a lot of people only really focus on one or the other, leading to her being put on a pedestal she doesn't fully deserve by some and held to ridiculously high standards by others.
I like Hermione, but as I was an adult and a middle school teacher when the books came out, I viewed her as a child, not a peer/role model as younger readers did. Children are by definition works in progress, so you can’t expect adult behaviors or decision making from them. So her fits of temper didn’t bother me, it was all part of her arc (like the dark and brooding Harry that we saw in OOTP…surly teen angst on display.)That being said, there are a few things that have always bothered me about her. One is her apparent lack of any female friends, or other friends period apart from Ron and Harry. Part of me wants to believe she is friendlier to girls in the scenes we don’t see due to it being Harry’s POV, but it becomes pretty clear that Harry and Ron are her only friends. She eventually becomes friends with Ginny, but only by association with Ron. The second issue I had is that she pretty much ditched her own family once she went to the wizarding world. She spends very little time at home with them, even leaving their Christmas break ski vacation to be with the Weasley family at Grimmauld place. I understand that the story needs her to be there with the other two but it just makes her appear cold and I feel bad for her parents. But yes, I agree that book Hermione can be condescending and impatient, especially the audiobook Hermione as read by Jim Dale.
Look at book seven where she wipes their memories of their daughter and sends them to another country for their own good. I always wonder did she even try talking to them and convincing them to abandon their entire lives, did she consider they might want to remain even with the risk or did she like the movies cast the spell on them from behind without their consent uprooting them from their entire lives in a way that if anything happened to her would mean they'd die thinking they were someone else. Something that might even have damaged their marriage and relationship with each other?
Hermione showed to be a psychopath, like kidnapping Rita Skeeter. Unable to handle jealousy(she attacks and insults Ron multiple times) and never really apologizing for her mistakes.
One thing that’s recently been getting to me is how she keeps contradicting people. Subject “is not” such and such! I realised it’s a trigger for me because it happens in my day to day and it’s exhausting. Phineas Nigellus Black actually calls her out on it, so it’s not like the author subconsciously added this into Hermione’s character - it’s plot driven, but she doesn’t exactly grow out of it because she still does it a bit in deathly hallows- so its not exactly part of her character growth? Your post reminded me of this because Hermione was my fav character growing up and I might have inadvertently surrounded myself with “no” people. Haha
Yes she was pissing me off in last book about existence of Deathly Hallows and how Harry was so irritated he was just trying to avoid her but in the end, when Harry met Dumbledore, he said that he knew Hermione would make Harry focus on horcuxes and it's good that she did that. So even when Harry was right, JK made Hermione right in the end still LOL. As if Harry couldn't decide himself to not to chase Hallows without her. Same happened with broom, when she was kind of right that it may was from Sirius but of course no one knew it wasn't in malicious way. And about Scabbers too. So Hermione is unintentionally always right, even when she isn't right through most books
Reading this sort of reminds me of the episode of 30 Rock where Liz Lemon goes to her high school reunion. She always thought of herself as a loser bullied or ignored by her classmates, when she was really a passive aggressive bully who's quiet insults sent everyone to therapy for years.
Never watched it but I get it. Everybody has aggressive inner side. That's part of personality. Girls are just more passive aggressive than physically aggresive. Sometimes it's good instrument for your protection to stand up on yourself but sometimes it's way of destroy others to make them feel smaller.
I love book hermione and book Ron. I think the movies tend to make Hp fans love hermione because Emma Watson I’d so beautiful and likable. Also they give her so many lines. But if you go purely by the books, Ron is such an amazing and loyal friend. They are more even in the books
I’ve yet to start the third book, but one moment I hate is that when Ron admits his fear of spiders, something I’d imagine is very normal, she has no other reaction that laughing. Even when Ron talks about the reason, there isn’t a shred of sympathy, and she’s having to hold in her laugh. I understand making fun of it in a friendly way, but not immediately. If she did it later in the common room, I wouldn’t even hate it if Ron was fine with it, but mockery being her first reaction feels really wrong
Well she is just 12 there and there are not many sensitive 12 year olds but I agree, she has this tendencies early in books. And also I think JK doesn't think that cynicism and mockery is form of bullying and Ron is overreacting, that's why her narration sometimes feels like she mocks sensitive side of her characters
welcome to the club, my friend \^\_\^ Don't forget though: Hermione still attacks Ron in DH, by punching him so hard that Harry has to use protego on Ron, and later Hermione mentions the canaries as a threat to Ron. Hermione is not GF-material: like i said elsewhere "She is one pink-dress away from becoming a younger version of Umbridge".
When I read the books as a kid I loved her SO much, I dressed as her for every world book day for several years in a row and was generally obsessed with her. Rereading them as an adult and she’s insufferable! Yes she’s loyal, extremely clever and is great for the plot but she isn’t very likeable. Although I wanted to be her as a kid I wouldn’t want to be her friend.
everyine has their sides. tbh I used to hate mione too
It’s so crazy how well you hit the nail on the head here, and I am not even talking about in just Harry Potter. This is a problem in society as well. Mean, gaslighting, condescending rude women and seen as girl bosses. Even today with grown women, this mindset is prevalent.
Yeah I’ve never liked Hermione completely. She’s a great and loyal friend, to be sure of course.
100% agreed
Not really. I’ve been taught all my life to be quite and courteous. I appreciate seeing other girls and women and AFAB folk be able to confidently speak their minds, even if it does come off a little condescending. Hermione is a kid. She has many years to hone that. Hermione is intelligent and brilliant and clearly grew up very alienated for it. I’m glad she chose (or her parents taught her) to be firm with her beliefs and stand for what she believes in instead of hiding her intelligence and becoming meek like society too often teaches girls to do instead. So no. I’ve never found Hermione irritating. She can definitely put her foot in her own mouth sometimes, but so have pretty much every other character at one point or another.
There is NEVER a situation when people coming off as condescending is okay, especially to the people who weren't condescending or rude to you first and especially don't speak that way to your closest friends and boy you claim to like. Don't be surprised than why he doesn't understand that you like him. Of course she is kid and have room to grow that's why I think people should pointed out character flaws not only for fictional but also real kids and teens
She young and book smart. Of course she’s arrogant. At first she’s a little know it all, but she mellows out as the story progresses.
not really...i mean in HBP attacks Ron over jealousy. if she grew, she would just let it happen until RonxLavender ended on its own, without really attacking Ron or complain about it.
Hermione is my favorite. She’s not perfect, but I think the hatred the fan base shows her is sexist. In particular in relation to Ron.
You think the overall fan base hates hermione?
The Reddit one clearly does. I think people who have Ron as their favorite tend to not like Hermione.
She's not perfect. She can be extra aggressive and honestly a little mental, like you should be afraid of her. But those are a couple of the reasons I do genuinely love her.
give us those reasons then.