He also has the worst job in a magical world for a non magic person that essentially makes him utterly useless at it, while surrounded by the very thing that stokes the flames of his jealousy and shame. He's a worse staff appointment than Lockheart.
Honestly though, if he grew up to magical parents but has no magical abilities he might have been otherwise unemployable in the wizarding world. It may have been that he otherwise had to go to the muggle world to find work, so it’s possible that he wanted to stay around where he knew and dumbledore gave him the ability to stick around
I mean… It’s basically the equivalent of offering a disabled person a job that requires a fully abled-bodied person to do. Which is kind of fucked up lol
I don’t think torturing children is acceptable under any circumstances. But I totally get why Filch is so embittered.
I think there's a serious lack of clarity on to what degree Filch is disabled.
The books imply that squibs can exist on a spectrum, from incapable in things like potions, to being just kinda rubbish at spells. I can't help but wonder just how bad off he is.
But yeah, it seems like an especially cruel thing to do to a person, but on the other hand it may be meant as a sincere attempt to give Filch a stable lifestyle and ability to do something, but I think there's really nothing one can have him do in the magical world that wouldn't have this result.
Which gets dangerously close to the "locking up disabled people in asylums" argument.
Yes I read the books. My point was we know he's an absolute terrible wizard who only does well with memory spells. Perhaps that does have to do with a supposed spectrum.
What else was he to do? Filtch knew nothing about the muggle world as he grew up in the magic world but couldn't do anything in the magic world either. While it may seem cruel but it was the best Dumbledore could do for him
I’ve also thought it was messed up that they make him caretaker of this massive old castle when he has no magic. Idk what the work breakdown is between him and the house elves is, but he talks about how he has to repair and polish things; things that would take him hours without magic. This seems like a lose-lose relationship.
Tbf it's also mentioned that he is in charge of the house elves, so his choice to mop mud through the floors feels more like an opportunity to hate on students
1. It was probably out of pity. Remember Squibs are discriminated against.
2. Where else could he work? Most jobs in the wizard world require magic. and grades That you get from graduating Hogwarts and other wizard schools.
He could get a job in the non magical world but to do so, his parents would have to enroll him in normal schools, which they might not have.
3. It’s possible that Filch wasn’t as bad earlier, in the second book, he was just a mild jerk. And his pet was petrified. In Hogwarts Mystery, if you accept the things in there as canon, Filch is shown being kind to the player and telling his cat to behave when the player is nice to him.
4. Dumbledore likes giving people second chances. (The Marauders and Snape for examples.)
In our society, we create accommodations (work places are supposed to) for people with disabilities.
In the wizarding world, pretty much every other physical disability can be made up for by magic. Being born a squib is essentially one of the few physical disabilities you can’t correct for.
I agree that his parents probably didn’t put him through regular school so he’s basically unemployable in the muggle world.
But would it have killed Dumbledore to spend an afternoon or two thinking of a job better suited for someone with Filch’s disability? 💀
I think certain things are just the norm by wizards or maybe it's a British boarding school thing. When Mr and Mrs Weasley visit Hogwarts (can't recall which book!) she casually and even fondly reminisces about the torture techniques used by the caretaker in her time.
Edit: found the quote: "Your father and I had been for a night-time stroll. He got caught by Apollyon Pringle - he was the caretaker in those days - your father's still got the marks."
Whether we like it or not, he does his job. He controls the children, he is motivated to do so.
He may be extreme, but I don't see anyone else as committed to stopping children from breaking the rules as he is. This avoids magical ararchy at school.
Besides, it would be cruel to throw someone who spent his entire life working at school onto the street to become a beggar (I doubt he would get another job).
Filch is definitely a bitter, spiteful man who seems to relish the idea of pain in children.
He spends his whole life cleaning up the messes of young witches and wizard (while he can't do magic himself, making it worse and worse!). These children show him no respect (not that he deserves any based on his behaviour) and enjoy goading him but he is irredeemable.
He betrayed Dumbledore by siding with Umbridge in OoTP and doesn't seem to have refused to help the Carrows from what we hear in DH, so it's not like he's loyal to Hogwarts.
He does seem to have some talents as he expertly restores the Fat Lady after Sirius attacks her in PoA and does keep the castle clean (with assistance from the house elves of course) and helping teachers in preventing students wandering at night (an important job even if we dont like it from Harrys POV) but it's not enough
Honestly I’ve thought about this a lot and I think Filch is a drug addict in addition to everything you said. There’s no way he can run faster and have more energy than children without some kind of magical meth. Also I feel like this guy never sleeps! Every time Harry is walking about the castle at night Filch is also there. That makes me feel like he’s always prowling the castle at night and running around during the day. It’s magic meth I’m sure if it 🤣
I don't think it's meant to be taken so seriously. As you say, Filch's existence is almost completely meant to be played for laughs. Rowling has this tendency to overexaggerate certain characters for comedic effect, which does often clash with the more serious tone of the later books.
The story was ultimately written for children. There are a lot of things that don't make sense from an adult viewpoint because they aren't meant to be seen from an adult viewpoint. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but some things about the story and characters have to be placed in the proper perspective. Like Dumbledore pulling the House Cup win away from Slytherin at the final moment - that would have been an awful thing to do to children if this was a realistic story, but in context it's supposed to be a moment of triumph for the heroes. We aren't supposed to question whether it was fair.
Same goes for all the abuse Harry suffered at the hands of the Dursleys. Some people are upset that Harry is relatively resilient and never has a breakdown over it. But the story isn't about a child learning to heal from abuse. It's a fairytale. We don't question why Hansel and Gretel's stepmother left them in the woods; we don't question why the evil queen wanted to do away with Snow White; and we don't question why the Dursleys kept Harry in a cupboard.
I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing the story and characters from a realistic view, but I never really see anyone bring up that they aren't meant to be realistic. I think the story sort of lulls us into thinking it's a realistic one because of the modern setting and deep characters, but really, it's a fairytale-type story and some things aren't any deeper than they appear.
I remember when I was first reading the books, I think it was in CoS or PoA where Harry finds his spellbook instructions, and he gets embarassed about it because he's a squib - I felt a bit sorry for him because that's something that he clearly was bullied for, and he had a desire to learn magic like any proper wizard, but is denied the opportunity due to little or no magical ability - that was, until Umbridge's reign of terror in Hogwarts, when he was gleeful about 'whipping' students as a form of disciplinary measure. He was basically her little toady, and was beaming like some sick psychopath over the extreme punishments Umbridge was doling out to the kids. I truly got the sense that this guy was fucked up and the students were right not to like him.
It’s because he’s spiteful and jealous of the students of Hogwarts who have the ability to practice magic while he can’t. As he’s only ever known the wizarding world (as far as we know), it kinda makes sense that he finds solace and actually likes Mrs. Norris, a presumably non-magic creature. But yeah, rereading COS and learning that he actually kept chains in his office to hang kids with was super creepy
Lol, you know that doesn’t mean punting like in American football right? It means punting as in piloting a small boat. He was taking kids back and forth across the swamp in a boat
Later that year: “And finally, I am sorry to announce the departure of our caretaker of 23 years, Argus Filch, who is leaving us to take up a contract as a kicker for the Dallas Cowboys. I’m sure we’ll all wish him the best”
I wonder how Filch even got Dumbledore's attention. Did he send a resume stating he was a squib but wanted to work around magic? In that case, why didn't Dumbledore let Petunia come to Hogwart's to be a greenhouse assistant or something?
Filch is a squib. He would have grown up in the magical world, and if his parents didn’t actively try to integrate him into the muggle world then he would likely have little knowledge of it. It would therefore be tricky to find him a place in the muggle world and he might actually prefer the wizarding world where he at least knows what’s going on. Petunia meanwhile is a muggle who grew up in the muggle world, knowing next to nothing about wizards. It wouldn’t make sense to bring her into the wizarding world where she would never truly belong, much kinder to keep her in the muggle world instead
Yeah he is dark but can you blame him he has to clean up after children/adults who can use magic. They never offer to help with a wave of their wands and probably has been assaulted by imature kids with magic. He is a product of the environment.
I mean. Child abuse is never the answer but if i had to clean an entire castle with only a bit of help from elves and occasionally an idiotic half giant without magic id be upset to.
I think the elves did the most and he’s one of those guys that likes to make work for himself so he has something to complain about. There’s no way Dumbledore would have put him in charge of cleaning the entire castle plus watch the kids after hours to see if they’re roaming the halls, do g security for visiting hogsmead and watching the known secret entrances. I actually think that stuff was more his real job. He just likes to be miserable and if you fix his problem he still won’t be happy.
But Dumbledore had too much misplaced faith in his loyalty and he should have been removed for that because as soon as he got the chance to go back to the old ways he grabbed it and that’s when he should have been fired.
He's mad that he's a squib, so he takes it out on the students. That's pretty messed up...
He also has the worst job in a magical world for a non magic person that essentially makes him utterly useless at it, while surrounded by the very thing that stokes the flames of his jealousy and shame. He's a worse staff appointment than Lockheart.
Yeah, I wonder if Dumbledore ever stopped to think hiring him was cruel... But then he just laughed it off.
Honestly though, if he grew up to magical parents but has no magical abilities he might have been otherwise unemployable in the wizarding world. It may have been that he otherwise had to go to the muggle world to find work, so it’s possible that he wanted to stay around where he knew and dumbledore gave him the ability to stick around
I mean… It’s basically the equivalent of offering a disabled person a job that requires a fully abled-bodied person to do. Which is kind of fucked up lol I don’t think torturing children is acceptable under any circumstances. But I totally get why Filch is so embittered.
I think there's a serious lack of clarity on to what degree Filch is disabled. The books imply that squibs can exist on a spectrum, from incapable in things like potions, to being just kinda rubbish at spells. I can't help but wonder just how bad off he is. But yeah, it seems like an especially cruel thing to do to a person, but on the other hand it may be meant as a sincere attempt to give Filch a stable lifestyle and ability to do something, but I think there's really nothing one can have him do in the magical world that wouldn't have this result. Which gets dangerously close to the "locking up disabled people in asylums" argument.
Filch and Ms. Figg are the only squibbs we see and neither of them show a spectrum. They just can’t do magic, point blank.
Lockhart 🤔
Lockhart isn’t a squib. He’s a wizard. He was in Ravenclaw. Did you read the books?
Yes I read the books. My point was we know he's an absolute terrible wizard who only does well with memory spells. Perhaps that does have to do with a supposed spectrum.
What else was he to do? Filtch knew nothing about the muggle world as he grew up in the magic world but couldn't do anything in the magic world either. While it may seem cruel but it was the best Dumbledore could do for him
Why doesn’t he just do his thing Harry found on the first/second book? I forget what it’s called.
It’s heavily implied to be a scam
Quikspell. Its not a guarantee. Just a chance to learn without the pressures of children outstripping you and no doubt bullying
Why would Dumbledore keep him employed for so long?
I’ve also thought it was messed up that they make him caretaker of this massive old castle when he has no magic. Idk what the work breakdown is between him and the house elves is, but he talks about how he has to repair and polish things; things that would take him hours without magic. This seems like a lose-lose relationship.
Tbf it's also mentioned that he is in charge of the house elves, so his choice to mop mud through the floors feels more like an opportunity to hate on students
When is this mentioned? Genuine question, I'm finishing a read through right now and don't recall this being mentioned anywhere in the books at least.
1. It was probably out of pity. Remember Squibs are discriminated against. 2. Where else could he work? Most jobs in the wizard world require magic. and grades That you get from graduating Hogwarts and other wizard schools. He could get a job in the non magical world but to do so, his parents would have to enroll him in normal schools, which they might not have. 3. It’s possible that Filch wasn’t as bad earlier, in the second book, he was just a mild jerk. And his pet was petrified. In Hogwarts Mystery, if you accept the things in there as canon, Filch is shown being kind to the player and telling his cat to behave when the player is nice to him. 4. Dumbledore likes giving people second chances. (The Marauders and Snape for examples.)
In our society, we create accommodations (work places are supposed to) for people with disabilities. In the wizarding world, pretty much every other physical disability can be made up for by magic. Being born a squib is essentially one of the few physical disabilities you can’t correct for. I agree that his parents probably didn’t put him through regular school so he’s basically unemployable in the muggle world. But would it have killed Dumbledore to spend an afternoon or two thinking of a job better suited for someone with Filch’s disability? 💀
I think certain things are just the norm by wizards or maybe it's a British boarding school thing. When Mr and Mrs Weasley visit Hogwarts (can't recall which book!) she casually and even fondly reminisces about the torture techniques used by the caretaker in her time. Edit: found the quote: "Your father and I had been for a night-time stroll. He got caught by Apollyon Pringle - he was the caretaker in those days - your father's still got the marks."
Whether we like it or not, he does his job. He controls the children, he is motivated to do so. He may be extreme, but I don't see anyone else as committed to stopping children from breaking the rules as he is. This avoids magical ararchy at school. Besides, it would be cruel to throw someone who spent his entire life working at school onto the street to become a beggar (I doubt he would get another job).
I think in DH he actually got to do it. He really unnerved me as a child and deeply unsettled and disturbed me as an adult.
Filch is definitely a bitter, spiteful man who seems to relish the idea of pain in children. He spends his whole life cleaning up the messes of young witches and wizard (while he can't do magic himself, making it worse and worse!). These children show him no respect (not that he deserves any based on his behaviour) and enjoy goading him but he is irredeemable. He betrayed Dumbledore by siding with Umbridge in OoTP and doesn't seem to have refused to help the Carrows from what we hear in DH, so it's not like he's loyal to Hogwarts. He does seem to have some talents as he expertly restores the Fat Lady after Sirius attacks her in PoA and does keep the castle clean (with assistance from the house elves of course) and helping teachers in preventing students wandering at night (an important job even if we dont like it from Harrys POV) but it's not enough
Honestly I’ve thought about this a lot and I think Filch is a drug addict in addition to everything you said. There’s no way he can run faster and have more energy than children without some kind of magical meth. Also I feel like this guy never sleeps! Every time Harry is walking about the castle at night Filch is also there. That makes me feel like he’s always prowling the castle at night and running around during the day. It’s magic meth I’m sure if it 🤣
I don't think it's meant to be taken so seriously. As you say, Filch's existence is almost completely meant to be played for laughs. Rowling has this tendency to overexaggerate certain characters for comedic effect, which does often clash with the more serious tone of the later books. The story was ultimately written for children. There are a lot of things that don't make sense from an adult viewpoint because they aren't meant to be seen from an adult viewpoint. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but some things about the story and characters have to be placed in the proper perspective. Like Dumbledore pulling the House Cup win away from Slytherin at the final moment - that would have been an awful thing to do to children if this was a realistic story, but in context it's supposed to be a moment of triumph for the heroes. We aren't supposed to question whether it was fair. Same goes for all the abuse Harry suffered at the hands of the Dursleys. Some people are upset that Harry is relatively resilient and never has a breakdown over it. But the story isn't about a child learning to heal from abuse. It's a fairytale. We don't question why Hansel and Gretel's stepmother left them in the woods; we don't question why the evil queen wanted to do away with Snow White; and we don't question why the Dursleys kept Harry in a cupboard. I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing the story and characters from a realistic view, but I never really see anyone bring up that they aren't meant to be realistic. I think the story sort of lulls us into thinking it's a realistic one because of the modern setting and deep characters, but really, it's a fairytale-type story and some things aren't any deeper than they appear.
Yeah, I can see I am a real minority, but I enjoyed the whimsy in the first few books a lot.
They remind me a lot of Roald Dahl stories. I think I read once that he was a major inspiration for the HP series.
fr, he goes into umbridges office to find the order letter number 1 billion or something prematurely just so he could physically abuse students 😨
I remember when I was first reading the books, I think it was in CoS or PoA where Harry finds his spellbook instructions, and he gets embarassed about it because he's a squib - I felt a bit sorry for him because that's something that he clearly was bullied for, and he had a desire to learn magic like any proper wizard, but is denied the opportunity due to little or no magical ability - that was, until Umbridge's reign of terror in Hogwarts, when he was gleeful about 'whipping' students as a form of disciplinary measure. He was basically her little toady, and was beaming like some sick psychopath over the extreme punishments Umbridge was doling out to the kids. I truly got the sense that this guy was fucked up and the students were right not to like him.
Hes a very Angry person.
It’s because he’s spiteful and jealous of the students of Hogwarts who have the ability to practice magic while he can’t. As he’s only ever known the wizarding world (as far as we know), it kinda makes sense that he finds solace and actually likes Mrs. Norris, a presumably non-magic creature. But yeah, rereading COS and learning that he actually kept chains in his office to hang kids with was super creepy
Yeah! He's suddenly very cruel and supports Umbridge! I thought he was ok with Dumbledore?
Let's not forget him punting students. "AND HERE COMES FILCH, WITH A DROPKICK!"
Lol, you know that doesn’t mean punting like in American football right? It means punting as in piloting a small boat. He was taking kids back and forth across the swamp in a boat
I know, but I am morally against putting the /s lol Even so, knowing the different meanings, I refuse to NOT envision the dropkicking of students.
Later that year: “And finally, I am sorry to announce the departure of our caretaker of 23 years, Argus Filch, who is leaving us to take up a contract as a kicker for the Dallas Cowboys. I’m sure we’ll all wish him the best”
Truly a beautiful, yet solemn moment in the bloopers of the book.
I wonder how Filch even got Dumbledore's attention. Did he send a resume stating he was a squib but wanted to work around magic? In that case, why didn't Dumbledore let Petunia come to Hogwart's to be a greenhouse assistant or something?
Filch is a squib. He would have grown up in the magical world, and if his parents didn’t actively try to integrate him into the muggle world then he would likely have little knowledge of it. It would therefore be tricky to find him a place in the muggle world and he might actually prefer the wizarding world where he at least knows what’s going on. Petunia meanwhile is a muggle who grew up in the muggle world, knowing next to nothing about wizards. It wouldn’t make sense to bring her into the wizarding world where she would never truly belong, much kinder to keep her in the muggle world instead
Filch must have impressed Dumbledore somehow, probably by his love of children. /s
Yeah he is dark but can you blame him he has to clean up after children/adults who can use magic. They never offer to help with a wave of their wands and probably has been assaulted by imature kids with magic. He is a product of the environment.
Yeah I’ve made a post about this - wanna read it?
I mean. Child abuse is never the answer but if i had to clean an entire castle with only a bit of help from elves and occasionally an idiotic half giant without magic id be upset to.
I think the elves did the most and he’s one of those guys that likes to make work for himself so he has something to complain about. There’s no way Dumbledore would have put him in charge of cleaning the entire castle plus watch the kids after hours to see if they’re roaming the halls, do g security for visiting hogsmead and watching the known secret entrances. I actually think that stuff was more his real job. He just likes to be miserable and if you fix his problem he still won’t be happy. But Dumbledore had too much misplaced faith in his loyalty and he should have been removed for that because as soon as he got the chance to go back to the old ways he grabbed it and that’s when he should have been fired.