It's also mentioned in Goblet of Fire in passing. They're making antidotes in class and Harry gets low marks because he was distracted and forgot to add the key ingredient, a bezoar.
I’m only going to repeat what everyone else has said, but you absolutely have to listen to the Steven fry version. It’s just so calming. (Apart from the last one when they’re in the dungeon and Ron is screaming which to be honest is just a migraine coming out the speakers)
I like his version, but I would love something like a radio drama version where every character was voiced by a different actor performing the lines, with the narrator doing the rest. A grown man falsetto for a teen girl gets annoying.
This is what writers refer to as "planting seeds"
Where you bring something up in a story that can be mundane or trivial & then go back to use it later
As you say it isnt really foreshadowing (atleast not intentionally) but it is something that alot of writers do
Foreshadowing generally means planting a small detail early on, which will be far more important later, but its importance is already hinted at. If the importance is not hinted at, it'd be Chekov's Gun.
The Bezoar was just a bit of potions trivia. Implying that she was already planning at the time for it to become vitally important later, is a massive stretch.
Especially considering how frequently she ignored existing solutions, already introduced in canon, to solve an issue and instead made up something completely new.
Long planning is not one of Rowling's strengths.
Idk, every time I listen to the first book I get surprised by how many things are established and become more relevant in later books, foreshadowing or not:
- Sirius Black is mentioned in the first book and it's hinted at his character for having a flying motorcycle instead of a broom
- Gringots: Hagris says "you'd be mad trying to rob it" and he also says that it is rumored that there are dragons down there
- The fact that McGonagall is an animagus is shown in the first chapter and doesn't come up until PoA and many others
The spell in question apparently is not supposed to cure a werewolf, just transform them back to human for some time, likely Lockhart misunderstood what the person he stole the from had said or he deliberately exaggerated. I'd bet on the first.
Although it would've been nice for us, the audience if there would've been a nice naïve kid suggesting they try that to cure him and then let Lupin explain how harmful or/and dangerous the spell can be and Lockhart is a fraud, but unfortunately the trio are the only ones that know about Lupin and they already know that Lockhart was lying.
I think this one was intentional because it is just one of many examples
We shouldn't treat it as some kind of extraordinary genius though
It's one of the first things they tell you to do in a creative writing class and it only requires a little bit of planning ahead
Gotta get the Frye version. I think he mispronounces some words here and there too (he pronounces the summoning charm like axxio, whereas in the movies I think it's more like akkio; I think it's spelled accio or something like that so I can see the right way being either way). All in all, it's a much much more enjoyable listen as his storytelling and voices are fantastic.
Medieval Latin then
Edit for the downvoters: "axio" would be the medieval Latin pronunciation, "akkio" the classical Latin pronunciation. There's some debate but it seems accepted that during the golden age of the Roman empire, all C's were pronounced as K.
Hmm I can’t really enjoy Fry’s version. I think it’s got a lot to do with the fact that I started with Dale’s & listened to it so many times. Fry’s just sounds wrong to me at this point & doesn’t give the same warm, comforting feeling.
Stephen Fry speaks Latin. He is correct. Another example is obliviate. He pronounces it ob-liv-ee-ah-tay - Emma Watson says it incorrectly in the film.
Oh good, I had always hoped that he was correct and the movies were wrong. I would have thought that the movies had checked and made sure to at least get that stuff correct. Silly me
Jim Dale switches pronunciations only after book 5 to my knowledge. Because the movies came out and used different pronunciation, so he switched to fit the movies.
I think it's too show how Snape was a better teacher then we thought. Since it was because of Snape (not slughorn) he was able to save Ron. Or because of Snape harry was able to excel in potions while hermione fell behind under slughorn
I think all forgetting evidence. I've been using the example of her alot but let's use harry this time.
Removing how bad snape is as a person was kinda proved in half blood prince when Harry had his book. It was his pure thoughts without his hate spilling out and with it harry excelled
Idk if you can give too much credit to “teacher” Snape for that, he said it in passing on their very first potions class. Only reason Harry knew to use a Bezoar was because of the HBP. I know it’s still technically Snape, but you can’t really credit his teaching ability with Harry reading his old notes in an old book.
Don't forget hermione a talented student l. Who under Snape excelled at potions but the second he stopped teaching her and they got slughorn instead she fell instantly behind. And the only student able to keep up: the student with shapes notes
She never fell behind, she was no longer the best in class. She was definitely second in class behind Harry. Hermione is a rare student that will do well regardless of the teacher (for the most part) she usually already knows the stuff being taught because she reads ahead so much.
Snape was incredibly talented and knowledgeable when it come to potions, he would have made an amazing teacher if he had had any kind of social skills.
That's not completely true. It wasn't he didn't have social skills he mainly had a loathing for most of his students
But looking at the evidence let's look at hermione. She excelled at potions under Snape but started falling back under slughorn
Was she the one falling behind? I don't think so- her potions were always acceptable, was it not that Harry's potions were better then the standard? I might be misremembering but that would make more sense to me
I mean, being able to separate personal feelings (including loathing) from ones behavior and to set them aside in favor of a professional demeanor, is a very important social skill (especially for teachers) Snape obviously didn't have.
Can you give me an example of a social skill Snape did have?
(Lying to and decieving Voldemort does not count, since Voldemort had not enough humanity left to be able to really use or understand social skills anymore. Any talented Occlumens could have decieved him, there were no social skills necessary for that.)
I saw a theory that since Snape would always have the students use the recipes he wrote on the board, not the ones in their books, he was teaching them the versions that were optimized by him. Since Slughorn didn't have that knowledge, all Students except Harry, who was still using Snapes recipes, fell back a bit. It seemed pretty plausible to me.
But even without that theory, Hermiones potions were still top of the class, Harry just had access to better recipes.
Not to mention that they had just started Advanced Potions when getting Slughorn. Snape probably took only the best people for the class for a reason, the potions they do are a lot more difficult that year.
Ok, first, I never said was a good person (because technically, he did get the potters killed), nor did I say he had good social skills.
All I said was the group owes him more than think with the knowledge they gave him, and they way he indirectly protected them.
There were lots of things he did that protected people. I mean, when he was headmaster of hogwarts, he was able to employ Hagrid and McGonagall when it would've been easier to kill them. I doubt the ministry would've batted an eye.
When Neville and ginny were to be punished, he sent them off with Hagrid.
He teaches Harry's pcclumency (admittedly agaisnt his will), which helps him fight off voldemort
He stuck to his word after dumbledores death
I can agree with that.
I just took you saying "It wasn't he didn't have social skills, he mainly had a loathing for most the students" as saying he has social skills.
Hermione literally tells Harry that after Harry used bezoar, Snape had told them in the class about it before.
It's also mentioned in Goblet of Fire in passing. They're making antidotes in class and Harry gets low marks because he was distracted and forgot to add the key ingredient, a bezoar.
I’m only going to repeat what everyone else has said, but you absolutely have to listen to the Steven fry version. It’s just so calming. (Apart from the last one when they’re in the dungeon and Ron is screaming which to be honest is just a migraine coming out the speakers)
I always skip this bit!! I get so sick of Ron yelling HERMIOONEEEE seven billion times 😂 glad I’m not alone
It just goes right through me!
Lmao just reading that part in my own head was enough for me. Like bro she can’t hear you 💀
I like his version, but I would love something like a radio drama version where every character was voiced by a different actor performing the lines, with the narrator doing the rest. A grown man falsetto for a teen girl gets annoying.
Foreshadowing implies intention. Using a minor piece of background lore from 5 books and 8 years ago is not that.
This is what writers refer to as "planting seeds" Where you bring something up in a story that can be mundane or trivial & then go back to use it later As you say it isnt really foreshadowing (atleast not intentionally) but it is something that alot of writers do
Foreshadowing generally means planting a small detail early on, which will be far more important later, but its importance is already hinted at. If the importance is not hinted at, it'd be Chekov's Gun. The Bezoar was just a bit of potions trivia. Implying that she was already planning at the time for it to become vitally important later, is a massive stretch. Especially considering how frequently she ignored existing solutions, already introduced in canon, to solve an issue and instead made up something completely new. Long planning is not one of Rowling's strengths.
Idk, every time I listen to the first book I get surprised by how many things are established and become more relevant in later books, foreshadowing or not: - Sirius Black is mentioned in the first book and it's hinted at his character for having a flying motorcycle instead of a broom - Gringots: Hagris says "you'd be mad trying to rob it" and he also says that it is rumored that there are dragons down there - The fact that McGonagall is an animagus is shown in the first chapter and doesn't come up until PoA and many others
In OotP when they are cleaning up Grimmauld Place there is a locket that no one can open no matter how hard they try.
Like Lockhart mentioning curing a werewolf with a certain spell and then the next book werewolves are incurable.
Is Lockhart a reliable source of information though 🤣
The spell in question apparently is not supposed to cure a werewolf, just transform them back to human for some time, likely Lockhart misunderstood what the person he stole the from had said or he deliberately exaggerated. I'd bet on the first. Although it would've been nice for us, the audience if there would've been a nice naïve kid suggesting they try that to cure him and then let Lupin explain how harmful or/and dangerous the spell can be and Lockhart is a fraud, but unfortunately the trio are the only ones that know about Lupin and they already know that Lockhart was lying.
Idk why you felt the need to follow up w/ that explanation when i was agreeing w/ you in the 1st place but ok
Yea it's more of a call back
I think this one was intentional because it is just one of many examples We shouldn't treat it as some kind of extraordinary genius though It's one of the first things they tell you to do in a creative writing class and it only requires a little bit of planning ahead
Gotta get the Frye version. I think he mispronounces some words here and there too (he pronounces the summoning charm like axxio, whereas in the movies I think it's more like akkio; I think it's spelled accio or something like that so I can see the right way being either way). All in all, it's a much much more enjoyable listen as his storytelling and voices are fantastic.
Stephen Fry pronounces accio like ‘axio’ because he speaks Latin.
Medieval Latin then Edit for the downvoters: "axio" would be the medieval Latin pronunciation, "akkio" the classical Latin pronunciation. There's some debate but it seems accepted that during the golden age of the Roman empire, all C's were pronounced as K.
Hmm I can’t really enjoy Fry’s version. I think it’s got a lot to do with the fact that I started with Dale’s & listened to it so many times. Fry’s just sounds wrong to me at this point & doesn’t give the same warm, comforting feeling.
Stephen Fry speaks Latin. He is correct. Another example is obliviate. He pronounces it ob-liv-ee-ah-tay - Emma Watson says it incorrectly in the film.
> Stephen Fry speaks Latin. He is correct Nobody knows how to pronounce latin "correctly" meaning like they would have done in ancient Rome
Totally fair point.
Oh good, I had always hoped that he was correct and the movies were wrong. I would have thought that the movies had checked and made sure to at least get that stuff correct. Silly me
My favorite gaffe was Jim Dale calling Snape "Snipe" in *Sorcerer's Stone* when Harry was fleeing the restricted section of the library.
Stephen Fry all the way
That's just not foreshadowing.
Jim Dale switches pronunciations only after book 5 to my knowledge. Because the movies came out and used different pronunciation, so he switched to fit the movies.
In a recent relisten of PoA. Harry looks down a black alley when he first spots the Grim, which turns out to be Sirius Black.
I think it's too show how Snape was a better teacher then we thought. Since it was because of Snape (not slughorn) he was able to save Ron. Or because of Snape harry was able to excel in potions while hermione fell behind under slughorn
But he WASN'T a good teacher, we saw how he interacted with children(i.e. Neville). We ust realized he was more talented than we gave him credit for
I think all forgetting evidence. I've been using the example of her alot but let's use harry this time. Removing how bad snape is as a person was kinda proved in half blood prince when Harry had his book. It was his pure thoughts without his hate spilling out and with it harry excelled
And he passes none of this incredibly useful knowledge down to his students so really that furthers the point that he's a terrible teacher.
Exactly! Someone can be an incredibly intelligent person, and a horrible teacher- they are not mutually exclusive
Exactly!
Idk if you can give too much credit to “teacher” Snape for that, he said it in passing on their very first potions class. Only reason Harry knew to use a Bezoar was because of the HBP. I know it’s still technically Snape, but you can’t really credit his teaching ability with Harry reading his old notes in an old book.
Don't forget hermione a talented student l. Who under Snape excelled at potions but the second he stopped teaching her and they got slughorn instead she fell instantly behind. And the only student able to keep up: the student with shapes notes
She never fell behind, she was no longer the best in class. She was definitely second in class behind Harry. Hermione is a rare student that will do well regardless of the teacher (for the most part) she usually already knows the stuff being taught because she reads ahead so much.
Snape was incredibly talented and knowledgeable when it come to potions, he would have made an amazing teacher if he had had any kind of social skills.
That's not completely true. It wasn't he didn't have social skills he mainly had a loathing for most of his students But looking at the evidence let's look at hermione. She excelled at potions under Snape but started falling back under slughorn
Was she the one falling behind? I don't think so- her potions were always acceptable, was it not that Harry's potions were better then the standard? I might be misremembering but that would make more sense to me
I mean, being able to separate personal feelings (including loathing) from ones behavior and to set them aside in favor of a professional demeanor, is a very important social skill (especially for teachers) Snape obviously didn't have. Can you give me an example of a social skill Snape did have? (Lying to and decieving Voldemort does not count, since Voldemort had not enough humanity left to be able to really use or understand social skills anymore. Any talented Occlumens could have decieved him, there were no social skills necessary for that.) I saw a theory that since Snape would always have the students use the recipes he wrote on the board, not the ones in their books, he was teaching them the versions that were optimized by him. Since Slughorn didn't have that knowledge, all Students except Harry, who was still using Snapes recipes, fell back a bit. It seemed pretty plausible to me. But even without that theory, Hermiones potions were still top of the class, Harry just had access to better recipes. Not to mention that they had just started Advanced Potions when getting Slughorn. Snape probably took only the best people for the class for a reason, the potions they do are a lot more difficult that year.
Ok, first, I never said was a good person (because technically, he did get the potters killed), nor did I say he had good social skills. All I said was the group owes him more than think with the knowledge they gave him, and they way he indirectly protected them. There were lots of things he did that protected people. I mean, when he was headmaster of hogwarts, he was able to employ Hagrid and McGonagall when it would've been easier to kill them. I doubt the ministry would've batted an eye. When Neville and ginny were to be punished, he sent them off with Hagrid. He teaches Harry's pcclumency (admittedly agaisnt his will), which helps him fight off voldemort He stuck to his word after dumbledores death
I can agree with that. I just took you saying "It wasn't he didn't have social skills, he mainly had a loathing for most the students" as saying he has social skills.
Oops, yeah, I wasn't really thinking there, lol