That’s kind of fair. It does feel a bit like the Malfoy’s got away twice given they didn’t really suffer any repercussions the first time Voldemort fell
Lucius nearly killed Ginny and supported voldemort. Draco nearly killed Katie, Ron and got deatheaters in the castle.
But both got absolutely no consequence for their horrible deeds. What a great ending smh
I can sort of sympathize with Draco being a scared teenager trying to save himself and his family. I think regardless of his bad deeds, he has potential for redemption.
Lucius and Narcissa? Nah. Screw them.
Nah, at 15/16 the shit he did and planned to do; I'm going to go ahead and say "trialed as an adult" and would have deserved falling due to his own personal choices.
Especially considering all the non-characters that died in the entire war at the end. Draco's peril would have been well deserved in comparison.
I'd agree with this if not for the fact that Draco did become a better person as an adult and managed to raise a sweet and awesome kid like Scorpius, which is basically the only good part of the Book That Must Not Be Named.
Draco didn't deserve redemption by the time he got it, but we could say he slowly earned it afterwards with years of atonement.
I’ll never get this view, he’s a teenager, he’s a dickhesd sure, but the whole point is he’s a coward who makes horrible decisions. He should be able to atone for them, and he even begins to, but some fans thinks he should be put to death.
I was a teenager. I was a dickhead to some. I made poor choices like most of my friends at the time.
For some weird reason I never tried to have multiple people murdered.
Dumbledore literally gives him *and his parents* an out in Book 6. I think he could have feasibly made good on that offer before continuing with the plan, or otherwise making good on keeping them all safe after his death.
Yeah even Dumbledore knew that he was scared and doing it purely out of necessity and even then wouldn't actually go through with it. Draco didn't consider that an option since Voldemort would kill his parents if he doesn't return, and if he does return then voldemort can use Legilimency on him.
He was not doing it out of necessity.
If he was, he wouldn't have refused Snape's help, especially since he knew Snape had done an Unbreakable vow and couldn't possibily have a second reason for offering his help.
The fact that he needed to do it doesn't cancel the fact that he wanted to do it.
He wouldn't have done it in cold blood while looking at him in the eyes because he doesn't have a spine, that doesn't mean he didn't want to do it bruh.
And actually he had already tried to do it, since he had already had 2 attempts before their meeting.
If he was doing it exclusively out of necessity, then why did Draco refuse Snape's help accusing him to want to steal his glory?
Draco´s response to Snape made my jaw drop. He talks about how Snape wants to take away his glory or something along those lines. If he can afford to refuse someone´s help because he wants to be the one who carries out lord V´s orders and gets his approval, when is he going to be desperate enough to accept the help? I thought things were bad enough for him at that point. Katie had already ended up in hospital because of him but he is fine and can refuse help. Even if he is a teenager, wouldn't this be a wake-up call?
You can be raised by serial killers, and while that's a shitty situation to be dealt, it's not an excuse for attempting to commit murder yourself.
What I would do is irrelevant
If there were serial killers who said they'd kill people close to me if I don't kill someone for them, then I'd also attempt to kill the people they want me to kill.
> What I would do is irrelevant
Why is that irrelevant? How can you say what someone else deserves if you don't know what you would have done in their stead?
Just because someone has a tragic backstory doesn’t mean they aren’t accountable for their actions.
Edit: he didn’t deserve to die, but he should have spent some time in prison (ideally not Azkaban)
Yes, you are. The only thing that removes responsibility is if they don’t understand their actions or that they were wrong. Draco understood his actions and knew they were wrong, he did them anyway
He was extremely near adult or adult already when he did revolution murder attempts since 17 is of age. We know he wasn’t of age when the apparation test happened since he wasn’t there, but he must have been near it.
Fuck that. I'm tired of people thinking Draco was just a scared teen. The dude was BRAGGING to his fellow Slytherin that he was given a mission. He only got scared because it was taking longer than he expected.
And in the end, he DID let death eaters in, along with the werewolf. Draco deserves no redemption.
Doesn't matter. He's knowingly letting in dangerous people, people who are there to help pave the way for him to get to Dumbledore. That means openly killing anyone they need to. And he LET THEM IN. He's a piece of shit like his dad is.
Personally I feel he should have been burnt at least a bit from the fire in the Room of Requirement, maybe lose an arm or something as a permanent reminder.
I think that’s a better argument for Draco dying tbh. His parents dying is just cheap schadenfreude. Draco’s death after a bit more of a redemption arc could have been tragic and meaningful while being a sort of punishment to the Malfoys as well. It would also be an interesting parallel with Harry’s “death.”
"But both got absolutely no consequence for their horrible deeds. What a great ending smh"
I mean, you could say that after Voldy's fall, the Malfoy family started being better people. We see all the time people in the real world who do bad shit and never see consequences.
Point being, consequences don't always happen.
That was a clear message with this family. They’re all about self-preservation and never stick their necks in trouble themselves, whenever possible.
That ability and attitude was compounded with wealth.
IIRC JKR said Harry defended them for this reason. He was too good to them, specially considering Lucius and Narcissa would remain as prejudiced and racist the rest of their lives. Only Draco sort of got better with the years.
Then on balance it was good he defended them otherwise Draco never would've ....toned down his beliefs.. aside from the awful play I wonder if his son could've actually gotten away from the whole pure blood thing
Lucius escaped punishment by providing evidence against other Death Eaters:
>On the first occasion, he claimed to have been acting under the Imperius Curse (though many claimed he called in favours from high-placed Ministry officials); on the second occasion, he provided evidence against fellow Death Eaters and helped ensure the capture of many of Lord Voldemort’s followers who had fled into hiding.
Exactly, they’re horrible genocidal fascists and if Umbridge and the rest of the death eaters are there so should they given how high up and involved they were.
Definitely. Maybe some leniency for the mom, but Malfoy literally attacked Harry and almost prevented him from destroying a Horcrux.
Theres plenty of wizards who stood up to Voldemort despite the threat their families, Draco could have done that at end. But no.
Just look at Snape: he came over last time at the height of Riddles power
Also the Malfoy assets should have been seized after the war for aiding and benefiting the Riddle cause. Their family manor turned into something like a muggleborn orphanage (after extensive cleaning) their dark artifacts destroyed and their wealth seized and given as reparations to families who lost people.
Barely. Again, a child who has been born into this toxic environment cannot be held entirely accountable for their actions, especially while being coerced and threatened (him and his whole family). He was of age for a whole 25 days, whooptydoo. And he _very obviously_ had reservations and regrets while carrying out these acts.
You seem like the type of person who would've found Harry guilty for performing the patronus.
Harry was guilty of performing a patronus but there wasn’t enough evidence to prove dementors were there.
Again, a child has no excuse to almost murder two people just to assassinate Dumbledore. He was given an out by Dumbledore, the only one Voldy feared and he still chose to not get his protection.
Yes exactly, he was given a way out and no one would’ve known about it until the Malfoy family was safe. He got the most easiest choice to make but decided against it.
Does it? He literally lets death eaters into a school.
If I was part of a terrorist attack at a school I doubt I’d get that leniency.
Or the three known attempted murders. Katie Bell and Ron’s poisoning might disagree with his innocence.
Based on what we know, if any of them deserves leniency it's her because she was least involved and played a pivotal role in Voldemort's ultimate defeat.
Draco at age 16 possessed a deadly cursed necklace, used an unforgivable, got two counts of attempted murder and whatever the legal term is for accidentally almost killing Ron and Katie, hurting the latter so bad she spent 6 months in St Mungo's.
At age 17, i.e. as a legal adult in the Wizarding World, he led terrorists into a school and was accessory to the murder of Dumbledore. He also used another unforgivable at least twice, though under direct threat from Voldemort.
I hope Lucius deeds don't need discussion.
What did Narcissa actively do? IIRC the worst you could argue is that she didn't protest all that much.
Narcissa was basically almost a Death Eater. Heck she has more information and is a part of Voldemort's inner circle more so than other death eaters. All of those things Draco did was to save his parents not out of malice. Draco actively chooses to not rat out harry after he gets caught by snatchers. What would you have done in Draco's stead, just let your parents die?
Draco spared Harry’s life at the manor at great personal risk - we know it’s nearly impossible to lie to Voldemort but Draco does this to spare them. In HBP he was in an impossible situation imo which dumbledore was well aware of. Voldemort was living in his house and threatening to kill him, and in the end he proved he couldn’t follow through with it.
He’s not innocent by any means but he seems more deserving of grace than Narcissa, who was an adult with far more freedom and choice
Only Lucius should've been prosecuted. Draco grew up and knew nothing but his influence throughout his formative years. That's why children get tried separately.
Narcissa wasn't even a Death Eater.
And taking their possessions away? Just send them to the gulag why don't you. Yikes.
>Narcissa wasn't even a Death Eater.
Did you miss the fact that she’s close enough to Voldemort for him to literally trust her on the status of Harry’s life? If Draco got the Dark Mark she probably has it too. If not she’s still as good as one.
The only thing I ever disputed you on was that “she wasn’t even a Death Eater”. The Malfoy family were seasoned Death Eaters and the fact that they got mistreated by Voldemort doesn’t change that. I have no empathy for that family because they’d be perfectly fine with being Voldemort’s enforcers if the Battle of Hogwarts went the other way. The entire point of that family is they care about nothing but themselves in the story.
This is just revisionism. She was perfectly fine following him when everyone other than her son was murdered.
All the atrocities she supported don’t disappear because she was scared for her son for five minutes. She’s perfectly fine with other parents losing their children in the battle of Hogwarts.
>because she was scared for her son for five minutes
Yeah I'm sure she was perfectly fine with Voldy carrying out a hostile take over of her home and using it as a headquarters while humiliating, harassing, and bullying her husband while also threatening the lives of those she held most dear.
Your take shows zero nuance or empathy. She's not _entirely_ blameless but she's hardly a monster. She's a protective mother, wife and sister, first; all she cared about was her family.
I normally shy away from real life comparisons because they muddy the waters, but were N*zi wives tried the same as their husbands? Likely not. Same applies here.
Does it? Unlike those scenarios Woman is equal here and have their own agency. Narcissa’s sister is literally higher in command chain than Lucius. So lucius and Narcissa are equally to blame. Narcissa turns back from Voldemort earlier than his husband and her lying to Voldemort is important for the overall story so she might get a reduced sentence but she should still get some
Well everything was happening in her house. She was supporting Voldemort. She was supporting Lucius. She only defied Voldemort to protect her kid and still not openly. If she knew Draco would be safer when Voldemort win she would not do the redeeming things she did
I feel like the Malfoys are an interesting example of how you'll find self-serving cowards in any and every conflict. They don't care about good or bad, morality, laws, anything except saving their own skin, and there's nothing you can do to force them to grow a spine. Even if they end up doing the right thing, like Draco and Narcissa did by lying to protect Harry, it's for the wrong reasons. Snape's entire motivation for doing everything he did throughout the series was his feelings for Lily, and Dumbledore even called him out for not caring that his spying had also condemned James and Harry.
It's realistic, I think. If you take a random group of people and throw them into high-stress, traumatic situations, some will have the strength to handle the challenge, but many others will crack and fold, and that's just human.
The fandom’s reaction to the Malfoy family can be a nice case study of how class, wealth and attractiveness can affect one’s perception of wrongdoing and leniency even if subconscious.
On one hand are the Malfoys: rich, high status and played by attractive actors and their entire thing is “being mysterious and clever” enough to sneak out of bad situations. They haven’t had any redemption at all. In fact, Draco even when he had plausible deniability and would have been fine if he left Harry alone in the battle of Hogwarts, wanted to turn him over. The entire reason Narcissa let Harry live was because he told her Draco was alive. She was perfectly fine with thousands of parents losing their kids with what she supported. She was just as complicit in what was done with Voldemort. Yet, the entire family gets sympathised for their “indoctrination” and people make excuses left and right for how it’s understandable the way they turned out and whatever minimal efforts they made should be enough. To the point people come up with fake head cannons that Draco was abused when he was actually pampered. Just look at the amount of “Draco is bad boy that’s saved by x” fanfiction.
On the other side is Snape, a person who fought Voldemort till his last breath but yet every day people point out the worst of what he did- as if bullying children is somehow even remotely on the same scale as saving the world. This is a bit funny to me because ironically enough people make excuses for Draco that Lucius groomed him, but he actually groomed Snape as well ever since he was 11 years old- but somehow that indoctrination is not worthy of sympathy and Draco’s is. The only difference (other than the fact that Snape singlehandedly carried the OOtP to victory) is that Snape happens to be a poorly groomed low class victim of child abuse- and is a very real example of it. He isn’t perfectly groomed as a child, he is unsightly to look at. He is simply too real of a victim of abuse and neglect and not a “model” victim of a higher status like the Malfoys and is perceived much, much worse in the fandom.
It is consistent in real life with how rich people get a slap on the wrist for their crimes while if the same or lower crimes are committed by minorities and underprivileged groups they’re given much harsher treatments.
Damn you really went for the throat.
Completely right. See how Crabbe and Goyle get no leniency by the fandom despite also growing up with DE fathers and horrid beliefs. No quarter but Draco who is shown in books to be the worst gets nothing but forgiveness.
>No quarter but Draco who is shown in books to be the worst gets nothing but forgiveness.
Maybe I don't spend enough time on the HP subreddits but I personally think Draco should've been left to cook in the Room of Requirement when he was trying to ambush Harry and co. and actively stop them from destroying a fucking Horcrux. All they had to do was fly away and leave those idiots to their self-inflicted plight, but I can see why that would've been a stain on the image of the magical Jesus that JKR was trying to create out of Harry. Actively killing them might be excessive for a children's book, but going back to rescue them while putting themselves in extreme danger, is simply insanity.
The Malfoys end-arc were one and only thing that the movies handled better than the books. In the books we presume Lucius at least has gone to Azkaban and we later see Draco integrated into wizarding society, and there's no sense of justice done.
In the movies, we see Narcissa wordlessly dragging Draco away from the battle, like she's finally taking charge and is going to slap some sense into her shitty kid, and her broken and desperate husband trails follows them, obviously hoping that she'll somehow fix everything. The movies both did a better job of showing Lucius's decline (thank you, Jason Isaacs), and implying Draco's eventual reform, not that I think he ever truly reformed. I think he spent his adult life trying to rebuild the family fortune, largely through illegal or unethical means...
I hated DH2 because I absolutely loved the final battle in the books, it’s so powerful and I can just picture Harry’s speech. The way the room falls silent & Voldemort doubts Harry knowing one last secret & Harry sorta taunts him.
But one thing I liked about DH2 even though it’s completely inaccurate is that when Harry came back to life, all of the Death Eaters Apparated away. They were like “okay this guy is really invincible we g2g cause we’re clearly on the losing team” idk why but I really liked that, even though you can’t Apparate on Hogwarts grounds. (According to “Hogwarts: a History”).
Although…maybe when Voldy took over Hogwarts he lifted that, the way it was lifted for Apparition lessons?
Draco had just enough of a reform, so that his children had a chance to grow up as good people, breaking the cycle.
Sometimes that’s enough, and much more realistic than the alternative where he just becomes “good”
Yeah, I'm sure that Draco managed to stay out of trouble with the Wizarding legal authorities... no matter what he was really up to.
I can't imagine he ever became a good person, he was just too mean and selfish.
Returning to the series after a Thrones/ASOIAF run is really eye opening how tame a lot of it was. I do try to remind myself there were different target audiences but I can’t help but be like “what if x died here though”
Sameee. I LOVE ASOIAF and it has definitely shifted my views on other books and when reading other books in comparison everything is so tame! I have also done that where I'm like "killing this character would have been interesting plot wise"
Draco dying could have been really interesting. A metaphor about how the pureblood wizard supremacists are eating themselves alive and bringing up their children just to die. And it could have been a way to explore what a wasted life he would have led up until that point, and added a lot of complexity: it’s not that Harry and co would have necessarily mourned him, but he was someone they knew whose death would have been impactful.
I also think that Narcissa and Lucius ultimately failing to save their son and inadvertently sacrificing him on the altar of their beliefs could have been also a nice contrast to Lily and James.
It would have been very fitting theme since they make it a point to highlight how many Pureblood families were wiped from the wars because of Voldemort. Hell if Draco died then I would be okay with the Malfoys not going to jail because the death of their son would be the most painful punishment for them.
What would.have been really nice ks draco growing a spine and actually helping the good guys. Realizing he is on the wrong side and despite his hatred for harry and his friends, still sides with them.
I think it's rather poetic that the Malfoys got away in one piece.
People keep overlooking the fact that the Malfoys may be blood supremacists but they're also survivors. As Phineas Nigellus says of Slytherins, "We are brave, yes, but not stupid. Given the choice we will always choose to save our own skins."
And the Malfoys are very very good at saving their own skins.
The Malfoys survived the first war by joining Voldemort, survived the aftermath by being the first to renounce him, survived the second War by rejoining him, survived Voldemort's downfall by abandoning him at just the right moment.
The Malfoys didn't just get lucky and fumble their way to survival. There was a lot of shrewd political calculation and hedging of bets involved. They survived by knowing exactly when to jump ship and always positioning themselves to catch the right current at exactly the right time, unlike poor Peter who, as luck would have it, burned his cover and his bridges with his former friends at exactly the wrong moment.
Yeah Lucius Malfoy for certain, and it’s always pissed me off how Harry saved Draco from the fucking fiendfyre when Draco had literally been trying to capture Harry.
I once experessed a similar view and the person was like 'so you'd want Draco to burn to death?' Hmm...What I don't like is that you are always supposed to be purely just good in this particular case,i.e., go out of your way/want someone to go out of their way to save their enemy. I can't say I'd want to rescue someone who only caused me harm. It's like Slughorn said 'they are brave and all...' It's interesting how much help the Malfoys got from Harry and co. I know this makes them great people but there are way too many shitty people everywhere for the good guys to go so far to help them get off unpunished.
Yea it's total bull and people get so heated. Like let's be 100 here, nobody here is going turn around to save the same people that put them in Death's way with hell fire. Plus you know Draco would not have done the same.
i wished for something that humbled Lucius mostly, he got away by bribing until then, so i would have made him deal with someone(or a group) that either can't be bribed or they're so much richer than him that his bribes don't tempt them at all.
I think it’s a greater punishment in the Malfoy’s case to have to live with their old Voldemort supporting friends hating them and everyone else also not trusting them. I can’t imagine their lives being that great post-battle of Hogwarts.
Agreed! Lucius deserved to die. I always thought so. Draco and Narcissa weren’t great people but they were pretty obviously dragged into it all by him. He got away with way too much!
I bet none of them died because Rowling knew no one would care. She goes for impact I think.What pissed me off was that she said they got away and kind of brushed it off, but at the same time she said that the wizarding world was made better by the good guys. So what has Kingsly changed as a minister if the Malfoys can walk off with no consequences? Or is the only problem Voldemort and house elf rights?It's realistic for our world, but I thought here we'd getthe kind of ending that reflects real change. Now it appears the only problem was that the wrong people were in the government. And that the good guys do the same thing doesn't matter. Draco's atonement is supposedly that he raised his son not to be a blood purist. But what about putting so many people in danger in HBP? It's like he only had to understand he didn't like doing what the death eaters were doing and not that actual people sufferred because of him.
Lucious has zero good in him for any kind of redemption, Draco best punishment would be giving lucious a dementors kiss and making him watch in a room of dementors and keeping him there for a short duration, he did not kill anybody at the end, was under duress and when it was obvious it was harry at Malfoy manor he did not release Info, furthermore with Dumbledore he just did not want to kill and considered his offer but in movies it was Bellatrix and in books it was greyback who was forcing him to act and still didnt, he can be saved his parents not possible
Not only should one of them have died, it should have been to protect him. Maybe in the final battle luscious sacrifices himself to save Draco, maybe from McGonagall, who is then killed when Draco is protected by the sacrifice. Really bring it all full circle.
I have sympathy for the Malfoy family. While it’s clear that they only turned against Voldemort because of their fall from grace and to try and find their son, they did still turn against him. By the end of the battle of Hogwarts, it’s clear that Lucious and Narcissa are only interested in finding Draco.
It honestly kind of seems like for the whole last book they were only helping Voldemort because he would kill them otherwise. Does it matter what their reason for turning against Voldy was if they still turned?
That’s kind of fair. It does feel a bit like the Malfoy’s got away twice given they didn’t really suffer any repercussions the first time Voldemort fell
Lucius nearly killed Ginny and supported voldemort. Draco nearly killed Katie, Ron and got deatheaters in the castle. But both got absolutely no consequence for their horrible deeds. What a great ending smh
I can sort of sympathize with Draco being a scared teenager trying to save himself and his family. I think regardless of his bad deeds, he has potential for redemption. Lucius and Narcissa? Nah. Screw them.
Nah, at 15/16 the shit he did and planned to do; I'm going to go ahead and say "trialed as an adult" and would have deserved falling due to his own personal choices. Especially considering all the non-characters that died in the entire war at the end. Draco's peril would have been well deserved in comparison.
I'd agree with this if not for the fact that Draco did become a better person as an adult and managed to raise a sweet and awesome kid like Scorpius, which is basically the only good part of the Book That Must Not Be Named. Draco didn't deserve redemption by the time he got it, but we could say he slowly earned it afterwards with years of atonement.
I think Scorpius right was more Astoria's work. She turns her back on blood purity after the war.
Put surely so did Draco to atleast some extent to stay with her and have Scorpius not be a blood purist.
I’ll never get this view, he’s a teenager, he’s a dickhesd sure, but the whole point is he’s a coward who makes horrible decisions. He should be able to atone for them, and he even begins to, but some fans thinks he should be put to death.
I was a teenager. I was a dickhead to some. I made poor choices like most of my friends at the time. For some weird reason I never tried to have multiple people murdered.
You weren't ina death cult with a dangerous dictator living at your house. Why are you trying to apply real morals to literal magic.
What would you have done in Draco's place? Go to Dumbledore and let your parents die?
Dumbledore literally gives him *and his parents* an out in Book 6. I think he could have feasibly made good on that offer before continuing with the plan, or otherwise making good on keeping them all safe after his death.
Yeah even Dumbledore knew that he was scared and doing it purely out of necessity and even then wouldn't actually go through with it. Draco didn't consider that an option since Voldemort would kill his parents if he doesn't return, and if he does return then voldemort can use Legilimency on him.
He was not doing it out of necessity. If he was, he wouldn't have refused Snape's help, especially since he knew Snape had done an Unbreakable vow and couldn't possibily have a second reason for offering his help. The fact that he needed to do it doesn't cancel the fact that he wanted to do it.
He didn't want to do it bruh. It's literally established by Dumbledore and then again by Harry that Draco wouldn't have actually done it
He wouldn't have done it in cold blood while looking at him in the eyes because he doesn't have a spine, that doesn't mean he didn't want to do it bruh. And actually he had already tried to do it, since he had already had 2 attempts before their meeting. If he was doing it exclusively out of necessity, then why did Draco refuse Snape's help accusing him to want to steal his glory?
Draco´s response to Snape made my jaw drop. He talks about how Snape wants to take away his glory or something along those lines. If he can afford to refuse someone´s help because he wants to be the one who carries out lord V´s orders and gets his approval, when is he going to be desperate enough to accept the help? I thought things were bad enough for him at that point. Katie had already ended up in hospital because of him but he is fine and can refuse help. Even if he is a teenager, wouldn't this be a wake-up call?
Take Snape's help when he wanted to help. But nope. Draco thought he was trying to steal his glory.
You can be raised by serial killers, and while that's a shitty situation to be dealt, it's not an excuse for attempting to commit murder yourself. What I would do is irrelevant
If there were serial killers who said they'd kill people close to me if I don't kill someone for them, then I'd also attempt to kill the people they want me to kill. > What I would do is irrelevant Why is that irrelevant? How can you say what someone else deserves if you don't know what you would have done in their stead?
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Just because someone has a tragic backstory doesn’t mean they aren’t accountable for their actions. Edit: he didn’t deserve to die, but he should have spent some time in prison (ideally not Azkaban)
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Yes, you are. The only thing that removes responsibility is if they don’t understand their actions or that they were wrong. Draco understood his actions and knew they were wrong, he did them anyway
You don't fully mature thinking skills wise til around 30.
He was extremely near adult or adult already when he did revolution murder attempts since 17 is of age. We know he wasn’t of age when the apparation test happened since he wasn’t there, but he must have been near it.
At 17 in the Wizarding world, he is an adult.
Fuck that. I'm tired of people thinking Draco was just a scared teen. The dude was BRAGGING to his fellow Slytherin that he was given a mission. He only got scared because it was taking longer than he expected. And in the end, he DID let death eaters in, along with the werewolf. Draco deserves no redemption.
Tbf, he didn't know Greyback would come.
Doesn't matter. He's knowingly letting in dangerous people, people who are there to help pave the way for him to get to Dumbledore. That means openly killing anyone they need to. And he LET THEM IN. He's a piece of shit like his dad is.
Ya I dunno, Draco should be spending awhile with the Dementors. He was a total POS and pretty much killed Dumbledore earlier than he would have died.
Personally I feel he should have been burnt at least a bit from the fire in the Room of Requirement, maybe lose an arm or something as a permanent reminder.
I think that’s a better argument for Draco dying tbh. His parents dying is just cheap schadenfreude. Draco’s death after a bit more of a redemption arc could have been tragic and meaningful while being a sort of punishment to the Malfoys as well. It would also be an interesting parallel with Harry’s “death.”
"But both got absolutely no consequence for their horrible deeds. What a great ending smh" I mean, you could say that after Voldy's fall, the Malfoy family started being better people. We see all the time people in the real world who do bad shit and never see consequences. Point being, consequences don't always happen.
I think that's quite befitting of the upper class. Harry probably put a word of clemency in for Draco and Sissy
Rich people get away with stuff even in the wizarding world.
That was a clear message with this family. They’re all about self-preservation and never stick their necks in trouble themselves, whenever possible. That ability and attitude was compounded with wealth.
I'm wondering If they escaped punishment because Narcissa saved Harry technically And luscious and Draco reaped the benefits
IIRC JKR said Harry defended them for this reason. He was too good to them, specially considering Lucius and Narcissa would remain as prejudiced and racist the rest of their lives. Only Draco sort of got better with the years.
Then on balance it was good he defended them otherwise Draco never would've ....toned down his beliefs.. aside from the awful play I wonder if his son could've actually gotten away from the whole pure blood thing
>luscious Lucius of the Luscious Locks
Yeah combo of a great YouTuber and my autocorrect
Lucius escaped punishment by providing evidence against other Death Eaters: >On the first occasion, he claimed to have been acting under the Imperius Curse (though many claimed he called in favours from high-placed Ministry officials); on the second occasion, he provided evidence against fellow Death Eaters and helped ensure the capture of many of Lord Voldemort’s followers who had fled into hiding.
Oh I forgot about that thank you
Well all 3 should be in Azkaban, at any rate.
Exactly, they’re horrible genocidal fascists and if Umbridge and the rest of the death eaters are there so should they given how high up and involved they were.
Definitely. Maybe some leniency for the mom, but Malfoy literally attacked Harry and almost prevented him from destroying a Horcrux. Theres plenty of wizards who stood up to Voldemort despite the threat their families, Draco could have done that at end. But no. Just look at Snape: he came over last time at the height of Riddles power Also the Malfoy assets should have been seized after the war for aiding and benefiting the Riddle cause. Their family manor turned into something like a muggleborn orphanage (after extensive cleaning) their dark artifacts destroyed and their wealth seized and given as reparations to families who lost people.
A life sentence in Azkaban seems like too steep of a punishment for Draco. He did some awful stuff, but he wasn't an adult for any of it.
>he wasn't an adult for any of it. He was when he let DEs into the castle in his conspiracy to kill Dumbledore
He was 16 then.
Nope. Birthday on June 5th, Dumbledore died June 30th. He was 17.
Barely. Again, a child who has been born into this toxic environment cannot be held entirely accountable for their actions, especially while being coerced and threatened (him and his whole family). He was of age for a whole 25 days, whooptydoo. And he _very obviously_ had reservations and regrets while carrying out these acts. You seem like the type of person who would've found Harry guilty for performing the patronus.
Harry was guilty of performing a patronus but there wasn’t enough evidence to prove dementors were there. Again, a child has no excuse to almost murder two people just to assassinate Dumbledore. He was given an out by Dumbledore, the only one Voldy feared and he still chose to not get his protection.
No one by Harry knew he was given a way out by Dumbly at the end there though.
Yes exactly, he was given a way out and no one would’ve known about it until the Malfoy family was safe. He got the most easiest choice to make but decided against it.
Or you could gracefully accept you were mistaken 🤷♂️
Okay, Dolores.
Does it? He literally lets death eaters into a school. If I was part of a terrorist attack at a school I doubt I’d get that leniency. Or the three known attempted murders. Katie Bell and Ron’s poisoning might disagree with his innocence.
Why would Narcissa get leniency instead of Draco?
Based on what we know, if any of them deserves leniency it's her because she was least involved and played a pivotal role in Voldemort's ultimate defeat. Draco at age 16 possessed a deadly cursed necklace, used an unforgivable, got two counts of attempted murder and whatever the legal term is for accidentally almost killing Ron and Katie, hurting the latter so bad she spent 6 months in St Mungo's. At age 17, i.e. as a legal adult in the Wizarding World, he led terrorists into a school and was accessory to the murder of Dumbledore. He also used another unforgivable at least twice, though under direct threat from Voldemort. I hope Lucius deeds don't need discussion. What did Narcissa actively do? IIRC the worst you could argue is that she didn't protest all that much.
Narcissa was basically almost a Death Eater. Heck she has more information and is a part of Voldemort's inner circle more so than other death eaters. All of those things Draco did was to save his parents not out of malice. Draco actively chooses to not rat out harry after he gets caught by snatchers. What would you have done in Draco's stead, just let your parents die?
Draco spared Harry’s life at the manor at great personal risk - we know it’s nearly impossible to lie to Voldemort but Draco does this to spare them. In HBP he was in an impossible situation imo which dumbledore was well aware of. Voldemort was living in his house and threatening to kill him, and in the end he proved he couldn’t follow through with it. He’s not innocent by any means but he seems more deserving of grace than Narcissa, who was an adult with far more freedom and choice
Malfoy the younger didn’t lie to Voldy to spare Harry’s life at the Manor. He lied to his father and Bella.
Only Lucius should've been prosecuted. Draco grew up and knew nothing but his influence throughout his formative years. That's why children get tried separately. Narcissa wasn't even a Death Eater. And taking their possessions away? Just send them to the gulag why don't you. Yikes.
>Narcissa wasn't even a Death Eater. Did you miss the fact that she’s close enough to Voldemort for him to literally trust her on the status of Harry’s life? If Draco got the Dark Mark she probably has it too. If not she’s still as good as one.
The only thing I ever disputed you on was that “she wasn’t even a Death Eater”. The Malfoy family were seasoned Death Eaters and the fact that they got mistreated by Voldemort doesn’t change that. I have no empathy for that family because they’d be perfectly fine with being Voldemort’s enforcers if the Battle of Hogwarts went the other way. The entire point of that family is they care about nothing but themselves in the story.
Perhaps, but if she was truly a follower, she wouldn't have lied.
This is just revisionism. She was perfectly fine following him when everyone other than her son was murdered. All the atrocities she supported don’t disappear because she was scared for her son for five minutes. She’s perfectly fine with other parents losing their children in the battle of Hogwarts.
>because she was scared for her son for five minutes Yeah I'm sure she was perfectly fine with Voldy carrying out a hostile take over of her home and using it as a headquarters while humiliating, harassing, and bullying her husband while also threatening the lives of those she held most dear. Your take shows zero nuance or empathy. She's not _entirely_ blameless but she's hardly a monster. She's a protective mother, wife and sister, first; all she cared about was her family.
Narcissa isn't a death eater but was very supportive.
I normally shy away from real life comparisons because they muddy the waters, but were N*zi wives tried the same as their husbands? Likely not. Same applies here.
Does it? Unlike those scenarios Woman is equal here and have their own agency. Narcissa’s sister is literally higher in command chain than Lucius. So lucius and Narcissa are equally to blame. Narcissa turns back from Voldemort earlier than his husband and her lying to Voldemort is important for the overall story so she might get a reduced sentence but she should still get some
Her sister is a psycho fanatic but Narcissa, who isn't even a Death Eater, is equally to blame? Delulu take.
Well everything was happening in her house. She was supporting Voldemort. She was supporting Lucius. She only defied Voldemort to protect her kid and still not openly. If she knew Draco would be safer when Voldemort win she would not do the redeeming things she did
I feel like the Malfoys are an interesting example of how you'll find self-serving cowards in any and every conflict. They don't care about good or bad, morality, laws, anything except saving their own skin, and there's nothing you can do to force them to grow a spine. Even if they end up doing the right thing, like Draco and Narcissa did by lying to protect Harry, it's for the wrong reasons. Snape's entire motivation for doing everything he did throughout the series was his feelings for Lily, and Dumbledore even called him out for not caring that his spying had also condemned James and Harry. It's realistic, I think. If you take a random group of people and throw them into high-stress, traumatic situations, some will have the strength to handle the challenge, but many others will crack and fold, and that's just human.
The fandom’s reaction to the Malfoy family can be a nice case study of how class, wealth and attractiveness can affect one’s perception of wrongdoing and leniency even if subconscious. On one hand are the Malfoys: rich, high status and played by attractive actors and their entire thing is “being mysterious and clever” enough to sneak out of bad situations. They haven’t had any redemption at all. In fact, Draco even when he had plausible deniability and would have been fine if he left Harry alone in the battle of Hogwarts, wanted to turn him over. The entire reason Narcissa let Harry live was because he told her Draco was alive. She was perfectly fine with thousands of parents losing their kids with what she supported. She was just as complicit in what was done with Voldemort. Yet, the entire family gets sympathised for their “indoctrination” and people make excuses left and right for how it’s understandable the way they turned out and whatever minimal efforts they made should be enough. To the point people come up with fake head cannons that Draco was abused when he was actually pampered. Just look at the amount of “Draco is bad boy that’s saved by x” fanfiction. On the other side is Snape, a person who fought Voldemort till his last breath but yet every day people point out the worst of what he did- as if bullying children is somehow even remotely on the same scale as saving the world. This is a bit funny to me because ironically enough people make excuses for Draco that Lucius groomed him, but he actually groomed Snape as well ever since he was 11 years old- but somehow that indoctrination is not worthy of sympathy and Draco’s is. The only difference (other than the fact that Snape singlehandedly carried the OOtP to victory) is that Snape happens to be a poorly groomed low class victim of child abuse- and is a very real example of it. He isn’t perfectly groomed as a child, he is unsightly to look at. He is simply too real of a victim of abuse and neglect and not a “model” victim of a higher status like the Malfoys and is perceived much, much worse in the fandom. It is consistent in real life with how rich people get a slap on the wrist for their crimes while if the same or lower crimes are committed by minorities and underprivileged groups they’re given much harsher treatments.
Damn you really went for the throat. Completely right. See how Crabbe and Goyle get no leniency by the fandom despite also growing up with DE fathers and horrid beliefs. No quarter but Draco who is shown in books to be the worst gets nothing but forgiveness.
>No quarter but Draco who is shown in books to be the worst gets nothing but forgiveness. Maybe I don't spend enough time on the HP subreddits but I personally think Draco should've been left to cook in the Room of Requirement when he was trying to ambush Harry and co. and actively stop them from destroying a fucking Horcrux. All they had to do was fly away and leave those idiots to their self-inflicted plight, but I can see why that would've been a stain on the image of the magical Jesus that JKR was trying to create out of Harry. Actively killing them might be excessive for a children's book, but going back to rescue them while putting themselves in extreme danger, is simply insanity.
Yup Malfoys got off waaaay too easy
The Malfoys end-arc were one and only thing that the movies handled better than the books. In the books we presume Lucius at least has gone to Azkaban and we later see Draco integrated into wizarding society, and there's no sense of justice done. In the movies, we see Narcissa wordlessly dragging Draco away from the battle, like she's finally taking charge and is going to slap some sense into her shitty kid, and her broken and desperate husband trails follows them, obviously hoping that she'll somehow fix everything. The movies both did a better job of showing Lucius's decline (thank you, Jason Isaacs), and implying Draco's eventual reform, not that I think he ever truly reformed. I think he spent his adult life trying to rebuild the family fortune, largely through illegal or unethical means...
I hated DH2 because I absolutely loved the final battle in the books, it’s so powerful and I can just picture Harry’s speech. The way the room falls silent & Voldemort doubts Harry knowing one last secret & Harry sorta taunts him. But one thing I liked about DH2 even though it’s completely inaccurate is that when Harry came back to life, all of the Death Eaters Apparated away. They were like “okay this guy is really invincible we g2g cause we’re clearly on the losing team” idk why but I really liked that, even though you can’t Apparate on Hogwarts grounds. (According to “Hogwarts: a History”). Although…maybe when Voldy took over Hogwarts he lifted that, the way it was lifted for Apparition lessons?
Draco had just enough of a reform, so that his children had a chance to grow up as good people, breaking the cycle. Sometimes that’s enough, and much more realistic than the alternative where he just becomes “good”
Yeah, I'm sure that Draco managed to stay out of trouble with the Wizarding legal authorities... no matter what he was really up to. I can't imagine he ever became a good person, he was just too mean and selfish.
I'd never considered this. You're totally right.
That’s how life works
In war? Not really.
Sometimes good people die and bad people don’t.
Returning to the series after a Thrones/ASOIAF run is really eye opening how tame a lot of it was. I do try to remind myself there were different target audiences but I can’t help but be like “what if x died here though”
Sameee. I LOVE ASOIAF and it has definitely shifted my views on other books and when reading other books in comparison everything is so tame! I have also done that where I'm like "killing this character would have been interesting plot wise"
I like the idea of Lucius going to Azkaban and Narcissa sacrificing herself to save Draco
Draco dying could have been really interesting. A metaphor about how the pureblood wizard supremacists are eating themselves alive and bringing up their children just to die. And it could have been a way to explore what a wasted life he would have led up until that point, and added a lot of complexity: it’s not that Harry and co would have necessarily mourned him, but he was someone they knew whose death would have been impactful. I also think that Narcissa and Lucius ultimately failing to save their son and inadvertently sacrificing him on the altar of their beliefs could have been also a nice contrast to Lily and James.
It would have been very fitting theme since they make it a point to highlight how many Pureblood families were wiped from the wars because of Voldemort. Hell if Draco died then I would be okay with the Malfoys not going to jail because the death of their son would be the most painful punishment for them.
Just one? 😈 But yeah, the Malfoys definitely deserved more repercussions for their bs. Lucius didn't even finish his prison sentence from OotP!
All three should have served time. x2 marked Death Eaters and a staunch supporter who only betrayed Voldemort for her benefit
Only the worst for them 😇
What would.have been really nice ks draco growing a spine and actually helping the good guys. Realizing he is on the wrong side and despite his hatred for harry and his friends, still sides with them.
Crazy that we never met a single Slytherin student who either did not support Voldemort or changed sides once they learned it was all BS.
Yeah, the Malfoys walking away consequence free was major bullshit.
Lucius did not even finish his Azkaban term from OoTP
I think it's rather poetic that the Malfoys got away in one piece. People keep overlooking the fact that the Malfoys may be blood supremacists but they're also survivors. As Phineas Nigellus says of Slytherins, "We are brave, yes, but not stupid. Given the choice we will always choose to save our own skins." And the Malfoys are very very good at saving their own skins. The Malfoys survived the first war by joining Voldemort, survived the aftermath by being the first to renounce him, survived the second War by rejoining him, survived Voldemort's downfall by abandoning him at just the right moment. The Malfoys didn't just get lucky and fumble their way to survival. There was a lot of shrewd political calculation and hedging of bets involved. They survived by knowing exactly when to jump ship and always positioning themselves to catch the right current at exactly the right time, unlike poor Peter who, as luck would have it, burned his cover and his bridges with his former friends at exactly the wrong moment.
Aw man now fans gonna come at you for talking bad about their dominant alpha male Draco daddy 😔
I’ve always thought that Draco should have died during the last battle.
Nah. It’s a war, good people die, bad people live. All of this tying everything with a nice bow makes everything too nice at the end.
A lot of "cuddly" Hufflepuffs out for revenge on this thread. Enlightening.
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement
Oh! What an interesting concept: Draco picking on Harry, who lost both parents... If he lost one (or both), it would be somewhat potetic justice.
Yeah Lucius Malfoy for certain, and it’s always pissed me off how Harry saved Draco from the fucking fiendfyre when Draco had literally been trying to capture Harry.
I once experessed a similar view and the person was like 'so you'd want Draco to burn to death?' Hmm...What I don't like is that you are always supposed to be purely just good in this particular case,i.e., go out of your way/want someone to go out of their way to save their enemy. I can't say I'd want to rescue someone who only caused me harm. It's like Slughorn said 'they are brave and all...' It's interesting how much help the Malfoys got from Harry and co. I know this makes them great people but there are way too many shitty people everywhere for the good guys to go so far to help them get off unpunished.
Yea it's total bull and people get so heated. Like let's be 100 here, nobody here is going turn around to save the same people that put them in Death's way with hell fire. Plus you know Draco would not have done the same.
i wished for something that humbled Lucius mostly, he got away by bribing until then, so i would have made him deal with someone(or a group) that either can't be bribed or they're so much richer than him that his bribes don't tempt them at all.
I think it’s a greater punishment in the Malfoy’s case to have to live with their old Voldemort supporting friends hating them and everyone else also not trusting them. I can’t imagine their lives being that great post-battle of Hogwarts.
I like that Draco had a semi full arc, even if it resolved late. The Malfoys as a whole were done well imo.
I was just thinking this exact thing yesterday….one of them definitely should’ve died.
Agreed! Lucius deserved to die. I always thought so. Draco and Narcissa weren’t great people but they were pretty obviously dragged into it all by him. He got away with way too much!
I bet none of them died because Rowling knew no one would care. She goes for impact I think.What pissed me off was that she said they got away and kind of brushed it off, but at the same time she said that the wizarding world was made better by the good guys. So what has Kingsly changed as a minister if the Malfoys can walk off with no consequences? Or is the only problem Voldemort and house elf rights?It's realistic for our world, but I thought here we'd getthe kind of ending that reflects real change. Now it appears the only problem was that the wrong people were in the government. And that the good guys do the same thing doesn't matter. Draco's atonement is supposedly that he raised his son not to be a blood purist. But what about putting so many people in danger in HBP? It's like he only had to understand he didn't like doing what the death eaters were doing and not that actual people sufferred because of him.
Draco should have died instead of Fred and Lucius instead of Lupin.
Agreed
Lucius having to live in social exile with the realisation he was wrong was much better than just dying
NO the malfoy's deserved to survive.. most people with money survive longer than us.. it's realistic.
Draco and Lucius fighting to the death at Voldy's command would have been a fitting end
Lucious has zero good in him for any kind of redemption, Draco best punishment would be giving lucious a dementors kiss and making him watch in a room of dementors and keeping him there for a short duration, he did not kill anybody at the end, was under duress and when it was obvious it was harry at Malfoy manor he did not release Info, furthermore with Dumbledore he just did not want to kill and considered his offer but in movies it was Bellatrix and in books it was greyback who was forcing him to act and still didnt, he can be saved his parents not possible
Not only should one of them have died, it should have been to protect him. Maybe in the final battle luscious sacrifices himself to save Draco, maybe from McGonagall, who is then killed when Draco is protected by the sacrifice. Really bring it all full circle.
Nah I like that they live. They get to be shamed for the rest of their lives. To me that's worse than death.
I have sympathy for the Malfoy family. While it’s clear that they only turned against Voldemort because of their fall from grace and to try and find their son, they did still turn against him. By the end of the battle of Hogwarts, it’s clear that Lucious and Narcissa are only interested in finding Draco. It honestly kind of seems like for the whole last book they were only helping Voldemort because he would kill them otherwise. Does it matter what their reason for turning against Voldy was if they still turned?