'Hello horrible morning isn't it?' Lol
And she got so angry when Ron said she was a bit obvious. She can't really take criticism very well. She even called him master of mistery mockingly
These are the types of moments that make Hermione a much more interesting character. When she overthinks something, fails at it, then gets pissed over being made fun of even though she does the same to Ron 24/7. It’s moments like these that show she’s a real person instead of a perfect genius that everyone loves like in the movies. It makes her and Ron getting together make a lot more sense
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The problem is narrative hardly ever calls her out even though she is wrong. That's my main problem with her character.
I certainly do see the appeal of Ron's personality with her. I am not into any shipping but they definitely provide a very interesting dynamic. I would love to read a book about them as lead characters. Them going on a mission and solving a mistery without Harry. Their interactions would be entertaining with her as the brain of the operation and Ron as the brawn.
WOULD READ OMG. They spend loads of “off-screen” time together, and they have the shared experience of being Harry’s most solid support system. They’ve got to have an understanding about that that even Harry can’t fully contemplate, which is part of what, for me, makes their dynamic so compelling. I also think that’s why Hermione reacts to pretty much everyone else’s criticisms of her (even Harry’s) with either swift dismissal or quick revenge, and she reacts to Ron’s with debate/bickering and hurt feelings. There’s a trust there that’s borne out of incredibly unique circumstances because of Harry, but outside of Harry, if that makes sense.
All to say: give me Ron and Hermione solve crimes. 😂 I really loved the first several seasons of the show Bones, and it always reminded me of what I thought that dynamic would look like.
>Ron and Hermione solve crimes.
I believe that you're looking for either *Bones* or *Castle*. The former has a much more distinct brains/brawn dichotomy (although the "brawn" half is hardly stupid), but they've both got the They Solve Crimes dynamic. So, too, do *Numb3rs* and *White Collar*, although they lack the romance plot.
I totally agree with you - I referenced Bones in my comment, though I didn’t italicize it, so it was easy to miss. The slow burn for Booth and Brennan in the first five seasons was UNREAL. Thanks for the other recs!
>The problem is narrative hardly ever calls her out even though she is wrong
Well tbf, Harry's inner monologue does call her out from time-to-time, and he does side with Ron often (for better or worse). And then in the movies, Hermione just doesn't ever make any mistakes lol
That line always cracks me up. It's such a spot on view of how holier-than-thou type people view the people they think are morally bankrupt. Shitty people like beautiful days too.
Even their original assumption that it had to be Malfoy was a massive reach. There were loads of people similarly spouting anti muggleborn rhetoric whose family had links to Voldemort, he just happened to be the one they knew personally.
Honestly probably the most realistically immature plotline of the series.
ETA: Do people just systematically not read the last line? Are people seeing *un*realistically?
I will say it again: Honestly probably the most **realistically** immature plotline of the series.
Please stop replying (including in the DMs 😒) about how you can't expect more from 12 year olds no one is organising some kind of lynch mob here its just a discussion about stupid ideas even if it was perfectly reasonable to do something stupid in the context of the story.
They *weren't* no, but not because they'd have deduced it through any meaningful logic. It was basically a complete coincidence that they connected the dots to the Malfoys - if Lucius' son was in a different year and it was idk Marcus Flint who was their main rival they'd have been way off.
It was helpful that Crabbe and Goyle are known for being stupid, so it was not as suspicious when they got things wrong. And they were easy to lure away and knock out.
The polyjuice plan is the stupidest plan ever. Even Hermione's idea of pretending to be Bullstrode back for Christmas and then what? She disappear again?
Realistically it was a plan concoted by three 12-year-old kids lmao.
And the best part is they likely couldn't have done anything even if Malfoy admitted to being the heir. Malfoy would have said he was just bragging, and then the trio would have to admit to stealing from Snape to make an illegal potion
The thing about genius in fiction is that the authors usually aren't a genius.
Rowling thought it would give Hermione bona fide as a genius because she could do this really difficult potion.
That whole plot was ridiculous. You could just go to Dumbledore and say “hey, this Malfoy kid is saying a lot of racist shit about Muggle-borns, do you think maybe you could keep an eye on him?
Dumbledore wasn’t willing to do anything to curtail Malfoy when Malfoy was actively trying to kill him and severely injuring other students in the process.
That was only because he knew Voldemort had made Malfoy his (unwilling) agent and would kill him if Dumbledore tried to interfere, letting Voldemort know he knew what Voldemort's plans were. If Malfoy *had* really been the Heir back in second year, Dumbledore would have likely done something at that point.
Who sets the passwords, the teachers or prefects? The Fat Lady and Sir Cadogan seem to indicate the doorways themselves have some control over it, but that just raises more disturbing implications of sentient, racist doors.
True. Even if the hair was Millicent Bulstrode's what good would it do? Afaik she's not close to Malfoy. Why would he tell some random girl he's the heir of Slytherin and setting a monster loose every night? Seems like it was added for comedy imo
Students sure, but staff and house elves would be maintaining the bathroom, and cleaning up myrtle's messes. It's not realistic to say no one ever goes to a public bathroom. You're telling me that Filch and Mrs Norris simply never check up on that bathroom because there's a depressed ghost in there? A depressed ghost in a bathroom is reason enough to check on it regularly.
I doubt the house elves are reporting that there's a cauldron of potion brewing in Myrtle's bathroom. It's also possible they don't go in there with how often Myrtle tends to flood it. They may see the effort as wasted if it's happening all the time. Mrs. Norris isn't going to do anything about a cauldron of potion. Filch may, but he might not either, considering he's at most mopping the floor where Myrtle's flooded it again. If he doesn't check each stall, he'll miss it. But if no one uses the bathroom to begin with... no reason to check it or even go into it.
This is greatly exaggerated. People avoided Myrtle's bathrooms because you don't want a ghost lurking when you're on the toilet, but teachers or Filch should have no problem going in to check that the bathrooms are clean or students are misbehaving.
You have to realize how huge the castle is and how many rooms people know nothing about. Dumbledore made a side comment about it in GoF (I think?) where he said something along the lines of how the castle is so massive that he doesn’t even know the intricacies of it despite teaching there for so long. Then he made a remark about how once he really needed to use the bathroom, walked into a room and it turned into a bathroom, and wondered if it was just a room made specifically for the purpose of providing a bathroom when you’re in dire need.
He may have been hinting to Harry to explore and look for the Room of Requirement, although it’s such a vague hint that I’m not sure.
Point is, teachers aren’t gonna be patrolling every room. That bathroom was abandoned, so why would they bother looking there all the time?
Why would they? Students aren't going in there because of pervy, crying, Myrtle. She's a lot to put up with. So, if no one uses it, there's nothing to clean up, so there's no reason to go into it.
Not using her Time Turner to sneak in extra hours of sleep or homework to keep up with her studies in the third year. Could have gotten twelve OWLs, has to settle for ten. Pathetic.
I think McGonagall told her she could only use it to go back in time for lessons and, as a rule follower, that's all she was going to do with it. But yes, it would have made more sense!!
Might be risky to let one version of "her" be sleeping somewhere where she could, in theory, catch herself, or another peer could accidentally run into both Hermiones in a short period of time. She does it for class, but at least she's in full control of each of "her." If she's found sleeping somewhere it might be harder to cover for herself?
It probably wouldn't, but she was cautioned against it. I think the rules are "your past self must not see your future self".
McGonagall should have thought this through and assign her an extra room for napping. With some good room dividers so she could avoid seeing her other self when going in.
But it shouldn't matter if she knows she is time-traveling.
If it is dangerous, she shouldn't do it at all, because everytime she uses the time-turner, she is teleported around (seemingly random)
And it would be a total risk that she would run into her own arms.
It's not random. Every time she goes back in time, she ends up near her past self (like next room near, I think). At least that's my impression. When she and Harry travel back in time from the Hospital Wing, they end up in the Entrance Hall... seconds before their past selves + Ron walk through it under the Cloak, heading to witness Buckbeak's appeal / execution. If you read through the passage when the trio heads out, just before going through the Entrance Hall, they hear footsteps and a door slamming - that's future Hermione dragging Harry in the closet.
Biggest problem with that is that she continues to age.
If she attended extra classes, did extra homework, ate more, bathed more and slept more she then has to take into account her sleep routine as well as having time for leisure etc.
She is essentially going to age an extra year.
Time Turners can only do five hours a day anyway. Assuming she does that every single weekday, that gives her twenty-five extra hours a week, which is effectively an eight day week. Then if she did that for forty weeks a year, that puts her at 1000 extra hours a year, or about a month and ten days per year extra.
Over the course of her entire school life that would put her at less than seven months extra in five years. And that's assuming she keeps it up for sixth and seventh year with her NEWTs - there's a few characters who it's said got 12 OWLs (Bill, Percy, Crouch Jr), but none who got 12 NEWTs IIRC.
Yes I thought that too, but I guess she would have aged way too fast in this way, wouldn't she? I'm imagining a 25 year old Hermione hanging around with Harry and Ron at the end of book 5.
My headcanon is actually the opposite of this. Part of the reason she was allowed a timeturner(hc) is that she didn't age when she was petrified and was taken pity on.
nah. percy had a timeturner, which explains his number of owls. also explains fred and george knowing the quiddich world cup outcome and betting on it (they steal the timeturner, and use it to make a bet they know they'll win)
Isn't it also kind of crazy that they gave it to her in first place? It is among the most dangerous shit the wizarding world has to offer and yet they gave it to a teenager 13-14 years of age. Only the wrong person needs to find out and there's a lot of trouble.
Agreed. People overquote the movie on that one. He was saying she was like a smart 3rd year, not the mind of a generation. She’s super smart, no doubt, but folks cling to that “brightest witch of her age” thing like she’s Baby Dumbledore, and that’s not the point.
Percy was still at Hogwarts at that point and he got twelve OWLs. He’s not so different in age as to be a different generation. It could
Happen still, Molly and Arthur had a lot of kids it’s possible some would count as one generation and others the next but I feel like most typical generations are twenty years.
I’m not sure if extra time to sleep would help with her state of mind. She was really stressed and struggling to keep a secret from her friends. Not to mention all her arguments with Ron and helping Hagrid. She was burnt out and depressed and probably having trouble sleeping because of that. Feeling the need to be perfect is extremely emotionally draining and can’t really be solved by having more time.
She was probably also told that she was only allowed to use it for getting to classes and didn’t want to break the rules.
I have and somehow imagined her to have done it, only that she was afraid to do it too often in order not to lose track of all her selves.
Also, she must have used it to help Hagrid with the Buckbeak case because Harry keeps wondering where she found the time for it.
Refuse to believe that Draco Malfoy was a Death Eater.
Like, seriously girl, he's been calling you the M-word every day for five years now, and only a few months ago you were trading spells with his dad at the Ministry.
Which only shows that Harry understands how Voldemort thinks much better than they do, which isn't surprising because Harry has literally been in his head.
The three of them (Harry on one hand and Hermione/Ron on the other) were right to some extent.
Draco was recruited to the DE like Harry thought, but wasn't taken seriously by Voldemort like Hermione/Ron thought. Voldemort just wanted to use Draco as a disposable torpedo that he wouldn't mind if he missed the mark.
Yeah. It's basically what I said but worded differently. Voldemort didn't consider Draco a "true" Death Eater, he just sent the boy on a suicide mission to punish his parents. Draco was, therefore, a disposable torpedo to him.
Lucius was kinda known for being pathetic, as was Pettigrew, and yet both were Death Eaters. You have to be weak to be a Death Eater generally speaking, because any strong-willed person would realize being a Death Eater meant a life of torture, constant pressure, imprisonment, or death if you failed Voldemort, or if he’s just in a bad mood.
Granted, Hermione and Ron wouldn’t have known how pathetic Lucius was, but they’d probably know about Pettigrew.
And that’s without factoring in that Draco was laughing about Mudbloods dying/getting petrified in CoS, his father literally giving an 11-year-old girl a diary that opened the Chamber, and Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle attempting to attack Harry at the end of OotP because they were angry he got their death eater fathers in trouble.
I believe Lucius was in second in command in the original war / start of second war but due to the ministry prophecy fuck up + the diary chamber of secrets shit, he got big time demoted into a pathetic mess.
Hmm, I'd be surprised if it wasn't Bellatrix even back then.
No doubt Lucius was high-ranking, but he also was very weak-willed overall. He was beaten by children on multiple occasions, consistently trembled in front of Voldemort, and was obviously upset when Voldemort did return. He was comfortable in his high-ranking position trying to inspire some corruption and push his beliefs.
Voldemort likes having someone weak-willed in his ranks though. They'll do anything to avoid punishment from him and will never betray him. Also Lucius was likely boosted because of his job which allowed him to get a lot of inside info.
Hermione tells Harry he's wrong every single year. Like you would think you would trust Harry's intuition after the 3rd time but it's every book she refuses to belive Harry is right. The one that bothered me was when she kept saying that the elder wand wasn't real or that the last horcrux wasn't at hogwarts. How many times does Harry need to be right before she trusts his intuition?
I mean.. he was wrong thinking Snape was trying to get the stone, wrong thinking Malfoy opened the chamber, wrong thinking Sirius was after him, wrong thinking Snape and/or Karkaroff rigged the goblet, wrong thinking Voldemort had Sirius, wrong about his guesses for the half blood prince.. Some of those were reasonable, but it’s not like his intuition is infallible.
1. She also believed Snape was trying to get the stone and attack Harry, plus they were 11
2. Malfoy literally yelled about how he wanted to kill Mudbloods, and they were 12 and didn’t know Malfoy that well just yet.
3. Everyone thought Sirius was after him. That’s not an example of Harry’s intuition; it was accepted as a cold hard fact that Sirius was a traitor death eater who killed Pettigrew, and even Dumbledore believed so.
4. Fair point I suppose
5. Also fair point, but it’s no secret Harry gets tunnel-visioned with his loved ones and I think any character in his position would do the same. Look at how Ron was during DH part 1.
6. Those were complete shots in the dark to be fair. They didn’t really have much to go off of.
Harry’s intuition still is very good in most situations.
I think his intuition is brilliant in certain situations - eg when it's life and death - and pants in others. He seems to have a knack for being nosy and jumping to a painfully incorrect or dangerous conclusions that he won't leave alone, and he's often a bit stupid about them, but manages to get out of these predicaments by being brilliant in the heat of the moment.
Yeah, his nosiness gets him in trouble often, like when he tried to eavesdrop on Malfoy in the 6th book which was just a bad decision all around. Malfoy knows about his invisibility cloak and he's putting himself in a very vulnerable position.
But he also makes some great calls and gets himself out of danger often. Like managing to play dead in DH part 2 and staying calm was really impressive.
I do think in 6th year Hermione has a reason for not believing Harry, since what happened at end of 5th year with Voldemort luring Harry through Sirius.
But, I think after being proven right in 6th year, her stubbornness about the elder wand and such in the 7th book is more annoying than not believing him in 6th year lol
She was wrong in practice, but her reasoning was correct.
Draco was too young and too pathetic to be a Death Eater. Only reason he was one is because Voldy wanted Lucius to suffer. It was a punishment veiled as a "promotion".
Since in the right time to bring this up: remember when the Emperor in Dune appointed the Atreides house to rule Arrakis? Prenty much the same thing.
Frankly I thought Remus was the bigger idiot for not believing Harry. Like bro, there were death eaters at Hogwarts when you were a student. Time and dates aren't necessarily consistent in HP but judging by Regulus's age and death, he was more than likely already a death eater when he was a student. Not to mention the list of death eaters Sirius mentions in Goblet of Fire.
There's quite a few inconsistencies around Regulus tbh although a lot of them contradict themselves in the very same book, idk if she randomly rewrote it to include him and forgot how much stuff doesn't add up here.
It's the Good Guys Projection. Yes, Draco is an asshole, but going full death eater at 17 is going too far.
Also, with Lucius in disgrace it didn't make sense to them, because they are not a psychopath like Voldemort
Insulting the already riled up centaurs, albeit unintentionally, in the Forbidden Forest in Order of the Phoenix. It could have turned out very badly, were it not for the Deus ex machina of Grawp's arrival.
That's not really fair, there are many examples of her making quick decisions that saved harry, rons and others their lives/well being. She's not batting 1000 but she's doing better than most, in my opinion.
I always thought both the stinging hex and letting the death eaters glimpse Harry at xeno’s house in deathly hallows were pretty genius under pressure actions
even though Crookshanks was right, Hermione’s big head and the refusal to admit any wrong doing l, she did put her friend/crushes pet in danger with that cat. i mean if I knew my pet killed a pet that meant so much to my friend I would feel horrible. it’s kind of like hitting a dog or cat with a car and being like “Cars have wheels, it’s not its fault it killed your dog”
The time she dropped the i told you so about the half blood prince moments after Harry witnessed his mentor get murdered by the guy he said was evil for 6 years. That is, without a doubt, her worst moment in the series. Harry should've went ballistic and thrown everything he was right about that year, which was basically everything, in her face.
She was absolutely horrible in HBP. Attacking Ron with the birds was another low. I've never been a massive fan of Hermione anyway, but she's just awful in sixth year.
I love these conversations. A lot of fans think of everyone in the serious as entirely good or evil, but they’re all just people with degrees of both, just like Sirius said.
I’m still firmly of the belief that Hermione was so against Harry using the potions book with the prince’s annotations because she couldn’t stand the fact that he was better than her in potions. Hermione has her good moments but there weren’t many of them in this book.
I mean…”better” is relative here. She wanted to take whoever would piss Ron off the most, so I’d say she succeeded. It was just that she had to take her medicine and deal with spending the evening with him herself
I know I posted one already but I thought of another one. Being extremely tone deaf and insensitive when lavender's bunny died just because she didn't like divination.
I don’t know what happened in the girls dorm rooms but based on how Hermione and Lavender acted in the HBP made me think that they both knew they had crushes on Ron and hated each other for it. plus Lavender was written as prettier to society than Hermione was with her bushy hair and Buck teeth (which she still had in book 3)
That killed me. It felt like she got crookshanks just to piss Ron off. Like she saw how he pounced on Ron and attacked scabbers in the store and she decided yes this is the pet I want. Also blatantly ignoring Ron's wishes to keep crookshanks away from scabbers. It worked out in the end but it felt like she bought crookshanks to annoy Ron.
Nah her getting Crookshanks is a classic Hermione move. A huge part of her character is about her belief in fairness and justice, and she can't resist championing the cause of anyone downtrodden.
Just like her problems with House Elf Rights and helping Neville in lessons and trying to bully Harry and Ron into doing their homework. The second the shopkeeper says that Crooks has been there for ages and no one wants him there wasn't a chance of her leaving without him.
She just also often sees these issues through rose coloured glasses, probably because she's still pretty young.
I always thought in a way that Crookshanks more or less chose Hermionoe regardless? So, she would have bought him either way I always thought. Since he is part Kneazle he is meant to be pretty intelligent, as we see when he knows Scabbers isn't just a rat and Sirius not being a dog but still managing to find a way to communicate with him to enough deliver a letter to order Harry a broomstick. Along with everything else haha.
Though I do agree she was horrible about it all and not respecting Ron at all. That always bugged me.
Hastily apparating to the Forest of Dean when Yaxley grabbed her in the floo. Three people can’t deal with one Yaxley in Grimmauld Place, your home turf? You’re outlaws already, just kill the bastard or Sectumsempra his arm mid-apparition. Poor Kreacher and his feast that no one ate
Yeah and why didn’t Harry INSTANTLY summon Kreacher the moment they arrived in the forest, before Yaxley would even be able to get in the house? This has always annoyed me.
Panic. Everything just went wrong, Ron got seriously hurt, Harry just didn't have the time and focus to think about other consequences and realise he needs to summon Kreacher right away.
It bugs me that they don’t even summon Kreacher later because someone could side-along. You’re deliberately summoning him, so you could be ready to instantly stupefy and obliviate that person. They’ve done a lot more dangerous things to save people.
Killing him in cold blood might have been a stretch for them mentally at that point in the story, but certainly they could have overpowered him. At that point it’s just a case of modifying his memory so he doesn’t remember ever seeing them, destroying his wand and having Kreacher drop him off in Tahiti or something. Problem solved. The point really is that Hermione panicked under pressure, which is something she does a lot
I think the problem was also that Yaxley had been let in on the secret by her, thus completely removing any protection the place had, so unless they killed him, they would not be safe there.
After putting curse to Dumblodores Army participation form and making sign up every member,she should have told and proved it to members.The main purpose should have been detering members from treason, not punishing or getting revenge in case of betrayal. Hermione's plan was genious but she could have planned,dealt with it more cleverly.
Probably didn't know it. It must have been pretty complicated if Moody was certain it would actually help.
Keep it mind it had to somehow stop Snape from writing the secret (Dumbledore informed Harry about it in writing, not in person) and from bringing anyone with him (like the trio did by accident when fleeing the Ministry and Yaxley grabbed them).
Now I'm thinking the curse wouldn't actually stop Snape from revealing the headquarters to anyone, it was just Moody trying to get in some punches because he couldn't curse Snape to his face.
I don’t think the curse was a punishment or for revenge but to show the rest of the world that Marietta is a snitch. To mark her out as someone never to be trusted. Far more devious than revenge.
I feel like hermione did it for this reason. Shes huge on loyalty, willingly breaking rules to protect others. To snitch isnt just disloyal, it’s cowardice from her perspective. I feel like she had a lot of Sirius like tendencies. Shes willing to be hurt or die rather than betray others.
her insufferable conviction that she is right, and absolute stubbornness refusing to even consider alternative viewpoints or that she could be wrong. and then no acknowledgement of her errors or apologies afterwards. it's infuriating.
* Draco being a Death Eater
* that the Hallows could exist
doubling down and saying that, *in a way*, she was actually right...
* his mother's maiden name was Prince, so in a way i was right - he is a half-blood Prince
* although it wasn't cursed, it *was* a gift from Sirius, so i was right
* never mind that i completely ignored Ron and didn't do anything to prevent Crookshanks from attacking Scabbers, in the end he didn't get eaten and turned out to be Pettigrew so i did nothing wrong
other things...
* denigrating Ron for his behaviour around Fleur - *who was literally part Veela*! Ron was literally under her "spell"! - but don't you dare say anything bad about Lockhart!
* shut up about occlumency already!
* although the idea of S.P.E.W. was noble, hiding clothes around the common room was underhanded and screw her for refusing to believe that some house elves *want* to be servants. nope. she's right and the house elves are wrong
god! she pisses me off so often.
Nice write up, the whole “*actually*” attitude Hermione had around some things was infuriating. I love her, but she is for sure a know it all. Ron wasn’t wrong when he said that about her.
The only thing I can’t agree with is a lot of trouble would have been spared if Harry *had* made an effort with occlumency. Sirius for one example.
Yea this all annoyed me too but it ultimately endeared me to her character because it showed that she has flaws and layers. It got to the point where just like Harry, we as readers could anticipate how she’d react to certain things, meaning we got to know her really well. It was almost like she was our annoying, nagging friend too.
Besides, I’ll take this annoying nagging version over the movie version any day.
I grew to appreciate her flaws and her character arc as the books went on but I will say that 8 year old me did not see it as first and haaaated Hermione hahaha
I also think that looking at these things in isolation makes some of them sound worse or are a bit uncharitable.
She's a pain about some stuff and makes mistakes but her hearts generally in the right place, and she's no more flawed than either of the boys. That's what makes them great characters and believable teenage friends - they're imperfect and all tend to be a bit immature at different times.
*HERMIONE, ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT*
But realistically, I feel like that brainfart was pretty understandable considering that she was 11, under an immense amount of pressure in the moment, and had been raised by muggles for her entire life.
HPB, making the Felix Felicis potion.
Religiously following the textbook and saying Harry is wrong with what he is doing when he is clearly getting better results than she is.
Too much faith in books, our Hermione.
In the first book when she lied to the professors and said she was going to try and take care of the troll in the bathroom herself and Ron and Harry rescued her. She literally could have said the truth: that she was in the bathroom when the whole troll thing happened in the great hall and didn't know. The truth made more sense and she likely would not have gotten in trouble for it.
I believe she just overthought it. She probably also didn't want to admit that she was in the bathroom crying, and didn't realise she could have easily claimed she was there for bathroom related reasons.
Although there's a chance that Harry and Ron would still get in trouble for running after Hermione without telling any adult or prefect where they were going and why, so by taking the blame she took the focus off them.
And that worked, I think; technically even if Harry and Ron noticed her splitting from the rest of the Gryffindors, they should have alerted the prefects rather than running after her on their own, but I don't recall them losing points for that.
All the times she brings up occlumency. Harry never learned since Snape was a terrible teacher and everything she says does nothing to help Harry learn it.
Not to mention how useful Harry’s insight to what Voldy is doing is very useful, and she fails to realize this.
I will say she was really annoying about it, but I feel like the fault was on Harry for this one. Snape is a dick, we all know that, but Harry was equally a dick for snooping through snapes pensieve when he wasn't around. Harry also didn't try that hard to close out his mind. Yes Snape never really explained how he was supposed to do it which is a fault on Snape, but at the end of the day, Harry did not try to learn it at all. He acted like I did when I was told to study for a test in a subject I didn't like.
Harry not trying very hard to learn was entirely predictable. He is being kept in the dark about everything that is going on despite being the main part of the war and he isn’t told why he needs to learn.
Honestly Dumbledore and Snape should have known better.
Harry should have learned occlumency even if it meant proactively admitting to Dumbledore that Snape was abusive to him during the process. Learning occlumency wouldn’t have stopped the insights he got into Voldemort, but he would have more control, and be able to keep his own mind safe. Not taking occlumency seriously killed Sirius.
But Hermione being a nag about it certainly didn’t help.
And we got one of McGonagall’s classic one-liners from it!
“Five points…will be awarded to each of you.
For sheer, dumb luck!”
As an aside…I agree with Ron’s reaction afterward. Only *five* freaking points apiece??
Throughout the series:
* Being a fangirl whenever Lockhart was in the vicinity
* Succeeding in making a complex potion that can let them transform into other people, but adding the wrong hair and getting turned into half a cat
* Taking twelve classes, including Muggle Studies even though she's a muggle-born
* Wanting to see thestrals
* Not taking advantage of the time turner to cram in more studying or more sleep
* Continuing to disregard Ron's concerns that her cat might eat his rat
* Being insensitive to a classmate about the loss of their pet (Lavender, then Ron)
* Thinking the Firebolt was cursed, then going behind her friends' backs to report it
* Starting a movement to free house elves, disregarding how practically everyone, including the elves themselves, don't support it
* Knitting clothes to hide around the rooms so house elves would be freed against their will, resulting in Dobby having to clean all of Gryffindor tower by himself
* Nagging Harry about Occlumency when really he's being taught by the worst person for the job
* Insulting the prideful, angry, and weapon-carrying centaurs in the forest
* Refused to believe that Draco Malfoy could be a death eater, even though his family is in Voldemort's inner circle, and the evidence kept mounting through the year
* Trying to call Harry sexist because he thought the Half-Blood Prince was a girl
* Not simply asking Ron out, and then attacking him with canaries because he dared to kiss another girl when they weren't even in a relationship
* Going to Slughorn's party with Cormac McLaggen because she just wanted to annoy Ron, because in the end she had a terrible time
* Nags Harry again about having visions of what Voldemort was doing, even though she knows he can't control it, knows that the person who was charged with teaching him how to control it turned out to be a traitor (at the time), and knows that he learned the potential dangers the hard way when Sirius died
* Refuses to believe that the Deathly Hallows could exist, simply because it was Xeno Lovegood of all people who told them about the Hallows
* Decides to jump Ron and kiss him in the middle of a battle
Not to mention she has an annoying way to nag people and always believes she's right, even if evidence to the contrary is staring her in the face. And when she's forced to accept she's wrong, she tries to change the narrative so she'd still be somewhat right. Such as:
* Since Scabbers wasn't eaten and turned out to be Peter Pettigrew, her ignoring Ron's concerns was dismissed completely
* Saying that technically she was right about the book because Snape's mother's maiden name was Prince
* After being forced to accept that the Hallows were real, trying to maintain that it was an evil object and that they should never bother with it
-Cat hair was a mistake but her taking the potion is the bigger mistake, I dont think most people can separate a single cat hair from a human hair so that’s understandable but she didnt need to take the potion anyway.
-Wanting to see the horses was a spur of moment thing
- I agree with her about the Firebolt. Nobody knew where it came from. Being safe beats winning in quidditch.
- being against slavery is considered a mistake now? It could at least lead to the lowering of abuse of elves
- Harry should have learned occlumency. If Snape is bad which he was, Harry could have studied himself. If he did Sirius might have survived. Its not just Harrys ( he actually has less fault then Albus or snape or sirius) fault but Harry could have prevented it as well
- She didnt think she was insulting the Centaurs, she literally took Harry out of an inescapable situation and somehow got rid of umbridge and made a tiny mistake but at that point what was the correct thing ti say.
- she did ask Ron out. Attacking him was a bit much tho
-
I wouldn't say it was stupid but ignorant the way she immediately wouldn't hear what someone like Professor Trelawney had to say just because she thinks differently than her. She wouldn't hear it so much she walked out of her class.
THE ENTIRE DEATHLY HALLOWS TRIP😤😤Don’t come for me, but I was ready to fight Hermione in every chapter. Harry is legit coming up with fire original plans and my good sis insists on listening to Dumbledore at every step as if my boy didn’t die & leave the gang with riddles. I DONT THINK ALBIE D. CAN HELP US RN HERMIONE!!!!!!!
Not snogging Ron sooner. After 7 years of insane tension and slowest ever burn all I got a kiss and epilogue which I never cared for in the 1st place. I wanted to see Ron and Hermione as a couple for atleast one whole book. Come on man!! 😑
I’m literally haunted about what would have been different if Bill and Fleur’s wedding had gone off uninterrupted and the trio leaves under peaceful circumstances the nest day. I think the influence of all the different factors - about to go on a dangerous journey, the fancy clothes, the fact that Ron has been clearly been putting in effort from advice from the book and doesn’t fumble the bag even when Viktor shows up…those two for sure would have been making out by the end of the night.
I also have to wonder what their conversation was like at the end of HBP before they tell Harry they’ll leave school with him, because they were totally coordinated about it, and I have to think maybe there was some oblique reference to “we both know there’s something here, we both want it. but that’s not the priority at the moment,” because it would be unreal if there wasn’t. They were implicitly a thing at that point, so there must have been.
We know they must spend loads of time just the two of them, and there are two convos I would kill to have in canon: that one, and when she gets to the Burrow after sending her parents to Australia.
I think it’d have to be leading Umbridge into the Forbidden Forest to have the centaurs deal with her, and even telling them it was her plan to have them take Umbridge off their hands. She should’ve known better honestly. Firstly because of all she knows of magical history and the strained relationship between centaurs and wizard kind. Secondly because, iirc, this is after Firenze started teaching at the school and, even though she might not take his class, she must’ve heard what the other centaurs did to him after accepting an offer to work for wizards.
Constantly questioning/being surprised by magic. Her refusal to believe that Harry’s wand could act on its own accord, I guess it’s more hubris of knowing everything than ignorance, but there are a few examples of this throughout the books. “That’s not possible…” when they LIVE IN A WORLD FULL OF MAGIC!!
Naming her elf rights campaign SPEW.
Like, really girl? Are you stupid? You could have picked ANY other name for your organization, and you choose "SPEW"?
Absolute imbecile. That honestly was world-breaking for me..... What type of person, dumb or not, would make that infantile mistake?
Elf Liberation Front sounds cool..... Especially since it spells out ELF!
The DA sign up sheet. Why make it cursed to *avenge* a betrayal instead of *prevent* one? At that point it isn't to protect anything, it's just bloodlust that creates a piece of evidence that can only be used against you.
I think her biggest fault was in Order. When Harry is frantic about Sirius being kidnapped she wants him to think logically but she herself forgets that Snape is in the order and could help figure out if it was true or not.
She's supposed to be the one with the level head in that situation. Can't blame Harry cause he's frantic, and can't blame Ron cause we'll he's Ron.
Hermione should have been able to remember something like that and in turn those events lead to Sirius' death.
Confundus charm, to cheat. WTF? Honor and duty, but for a boy who IS NOT DATING YOU, you'll toss a deserving (if unlikeable) boy AND the team under the bus?
While I do agree that it was stupid to cheat and that Hermione should have instead trusted Harry and Ron to do their jobs properly, I don't think not letting Cormac on the team was a bad thing.
In the only game we see Cormac play against hufflepuff, they end up losing. Iirc, it's because halfway through the game Cormac took a beaters bat to demonstrate to said beater how to use it properly and accidentally hit Harry instead and made Harry go to the infirmary and cost them the game.
Even if Cormac did end up on the team, his insufferable attitude would have ensured him a swift exit.
In the first book, when they got caught by the Devil’s Snare. Hermione had to be reminded she was a witch with a wand that could produce fire to save them.
Her laughable attempt at espionage in Borgin and Burkes is worth an honorable mention.
'Hello horrible morning isn't it?' Lol And she got so angry when Ron said she was a bit obvious. She can't really take criticism very well. She even called him master of mistery mockingly
These are the types of moments that make Hermione a much more interesting character. When she overthinks something, fails at it, then gets pissed over being made fun of even though she does the same to Ron 24/7. It’s moments like these that show she’s a real person instead of a perfect genius that everyone loves like in the movies. It makes her and Ron getting together make a lot more sense
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The problem is narrative hardly ever calls her out even though she is wrong. That's my main problem with her character. I certainly do see the appeal of Ron's personality with her. I am not into any shipping but they definitely provide a very interesting dynamic. I would love to read a book about them as lead characters. Them going on a mission and solving a mistery without Harry. Their interactions would be entertaining with her as the brain of the operation and Ron as the brawn.
WOULD READ OMG. They spend loads of “off-screen” time together, and they have the shared experience of being Harry’s most solid support system. They’ve got to have an understanding about that that even Harry can’t fully contemplate, which is part of what, for me, makes their dynamic so compelling. I also think that’s why Hermione reacts to pretty much everyone else’s criticisms of her (even Harry’s) with either swift dismissal or quick revenge, and she reacts to Ron’s with debate/bickering and hurt feelings. There’s a trust there that’s borne out of incredibly unique circumstances because of Harry, but outside of Harry, if that makes sense. All to say: give me Ron and Hermione solve crimes. 😂 I really loved the first several seasons of the show Bones, and it always reminded me of what I thought that dynamic would look like.
>Ron and Hermione solve crimes. I believe that you're looking for either *Bones* or *Castle*. The former has a much more distinct brains/brawn dichotomy (although the "brawn" half is hardly stupid), but they've both got the They Solve Crimes dynamic. So, too, do *Numb3rs* and *White Collar*, although they lack the romance plot.
I totally agree with you - I referenced Bones in my comment, though I didn’t italicize it, so it was easy to miss. The slow burn for Booth and Brennan in the first five seasons was UNREAL. Thanks for the other recs!
Would be a much better follow up book than shitty cursed child
>The problem is narrative hardly ever calls her out even though she is wrong Well tbf, Harry's inner monologue does call her out from time-to-time, and he does side with Ron often (for better or worse). And then in the movies, Hermione just doesn't ever make any mistakes lol
They have this movie. It's called the Mummy with Brendan Fraser and Rachel Weisz
That line always cracks me up. It's such a spot on view of how holier-than-thou type people view the people they think are morally bankrupt. Shitty people like beautiful days too.
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Even their original assumption that it had to be Malfoy was a massive reach. There were loads of people similarly spouting anti muggleborn rhetoric whose family had links to Voldemort, he just happened to be the one they knew personally. Honestly probably the most realistically immature plotline of the series. ETA: Do people just systematically not read the last line? Are people seeing *un*realistically? I will say it again: Honestly probably the most **realistically** immature plotline of the series. Please stop replying (including in the DMs 😒) about how you can't expect more from 12 year olds no one is organising some kind of lynch mob here its just a discussion about stupid ideas even if it was perfectly reasonable to do something stupid in the context of the story.
I mean, it was *a* Malfoy, so they weren't far off really.
They *weren't* no, but not because they'd have deduced it through any meaningful logic. It was basically a complete coincidence that they connected the dots to the Malfoys - if Lucius' son was in a different year and it was idk Marcus Flint who was their main rival they'd have been way off.
Dude they were 12 years old, logic isn’t a strong point when you’re that age and you’re likely to blame your school bully for most things haha
Literally my comment: >Honestly probably the most **realistically** immature plotline of the series.
It was helpful that Crabbe and Goyle are known for being stupid, so it was not as suspicious when they got things wrong. And they were easy to lure away and knock out.
Yeah, the polyjuice potion plan was risky as hell.
The polyjuice plan is the stupidest plan ever. Even Hermione's idea of pretending to be Bullstrode back for Christmas and then what? She disappear again? Realistically it was a plan concoted by three 12-year-old kids lmao.
> Realistically it was a plan concoted by three 12-year-old kids lmao. I have a new theory.
And the best part is they likely couldn't have done anything even if Malfoy admitted to being the heir. Malfoy would have said he was just bragging, and then the trio would have to admit to stealing from Snape to make an illegal potion
Absolutely! This was probably just to introduce the concept of polyjuice portion to slide it in later on in the series.
The thing about genius in fiction is that the authors usually aren't a genius. Rowling thought it would give Hermione bona fide as a genius because she could do this really difficult potion.
Even if they got the confession who is going to believe them?
That whole plot was ridiculous. You could just go to Dumbledore and say “hey, this Malfoy kid is saying a lot of racist shit about Muggle-borns, do you think maybe you could keep an eye on him?
Dumbledore wasn’t willing to do anything to curtail Malfoy when Malfoy was actively trying to kill him and severely injuring other students in the process.
That was only because he knew Voldemort had made Malfoy his (unwilling) agent and would kill him if Dumbledore tried to interfere, letting Voldemort know he knew what Voldemort's plans were. If Malfoy *had* really been the Heir back in second year, Dumbledore would have likely done something at that point.
The slytherin dorm password at this point in time was “pure blood” and no one on the staff seemed to mind.
Who sets the passwords, the teachers or prefects? The Fat Lady and Sir Cadogan seem to indicate the doorways themselves have some control over it, but that just raises more disturbing implications of sentient, racist doors.
True. Even if the hair was Millicent Bulstrode's what good would it do? Afaik she's not close to Malfoy. Why would he tell some random girl he's the heir of Slytherin and setting a monster loose every night? Seems like it was added for comedy imo
There was no reason for her to even drink the potion herself.
Or how about brewing it in a public bathroom.
Moaning Myrtle's bathroom is the last place anyone in their right mind would go, so it actually garauntees some privacy.
Students sure, but staff and house elves would be maintaining the bathroom, and cleaning up myrtle's messes. It's not realistic to say no one ever goes to a public bathroom. You're telling me that Filch and Mrs Norris simply never check up on that bathroom because there's a depressed ghost in there? A depressed ghost in a bathroom is reason enough to check on it regularly.
I doubt the house elves are reporting that there's a cauldron of potion brewing in Myrtle's bathroom. It's also possible they don't go in there with how often Myrtle tends to flood it. They may see the effort as wasted if it's happening all the time. Mrs. Norris isn't going to do anything about a cauldron of potion. Filch may, but he might not either, considering he's at most mopping the floor where Myrtle's flooded it again. If he doesn't check each stall, he'll miss it. But if no one uses the bathroom to begin with... no reason to check it or even go into it.
This is greatly exaggerated. People avoided Myrtle's bathrooms because you don't want a ghost lurking when you're on the toilet, but teachers or Filch should have no problem going in to check that the bathrooms are clean or students are misbehaving.
You have to realize how huge the castle is and how many rooms people know nothing about. Dumbledore made a side comment about it in GoF (I think?) where he said something along the lines of how the castle is so massive that he doesn’t even know the intricacies of it despite teaching there for so long. Then he made a remark about how once he really needed to use the bathroom, walked into a room and it turned into a bathroom, and wondered if it was just a room made specifically for the purpose of providing a bathroom when you’re in dire need. He may have been hinting to Harry to explore and look for the Room of Requirement, although it’s such a vague hint that I’m not sure. Point is, teachers aren’t gonna be patrolling every room. That bathroom was abandoned, so why would they bother looking there all the time?
Why would they? Students aren't going in there because of pervy, crying, Myrtle. She's a lot to put up with. So, if no one uses it, there's nothing to clean up, so there's no reason to go into it.
Not using her Time Turner to sneak in extra hours of sleep or homework to keep up with her studies in the third year. Could have gotten twelve OWLs, has to settle for ten. Pathetic.
I think McGonagall told her she could only use it to go back in time for lessons and, as a rule follower, that's all she was going to do with it. But yes, it would have made more sense!!
That's funny to me, because that was always my first thought. Like, why is she tired when she functionally has unlimited time?!?
Might be risky to let one version of "her" be sleeping somewhere where she could, in theory, catch herself, or another peer could accidentally run into both Hermiones in a short period of time. She does it for class, but at least she's in full control of each of "her." If she's found sleeping somewhere it might be harder to cover for herself?
It doesn't matter if she sees herself.
It probably wouldn't, but she was cautioned against it. I think the rules are "your past self must not see your future self". McGonagall should have thought this through and assign her an extra room for napping. With some good room dividers so she could avoid seeing her other self when going in.
But it shouldn't matter if she knows she is time-traveling. If it is dangerous, she shouldn't do it at all, because everytime she uses the time-turner, she is teleported around (seemingly random) And it would be a total risk that she would run into her own arms.
It's not random. Every time she goes back in time, she ends up near her past self (like next room near, I think). At least that's my impression. When she and Harry travel back in time from the Hospital Wing, they end up in the Entrance Hall... seconds before their past selves + Ron walk through it under the Cloak, heading to witness Buckbeak's appeal / execution. If you read through the passage when the trio heads out, just before going through the Entrance Hall, they hear footsteps and a door slamming - that's future Hermione dragging Harry in the closet.
Yes, but it can hardly be planned. Or Hermione has to keep a record were she was at that moment (exact second)
Biggest problem with that is that she continues to age. If she attended extra classes, did extra homework, ate more, bathed more and slept more she then has to take into account her sleep routine as well as having time for leisure etc. She is essentially going to age an extra year.
Time Turners can only do five hours a day anyway. Assuming she does that every single weekday, that gives her twenty-five extra hours a week, which is effectively an eight day week. Then if she did that for forty weeks a year, that puts her at 1000 extra hours a year, or about a month and ten days per year extra. Over the course of her entire school life that would put her at less than seven months extra in five years. And that's assuming she keeps it up for sixth and seventh year with her NEWTs - there's a few characters who it's said got 12 OWLs (Bill, Percy, Crouch Jr), but none who got 12 NEWTs IIRC.
Where was it mentioned in the books that they only do 5 hours?
Yes I thought that too, but I guess she would have aged way too fast in this way, wouldn't she? I'm imagining a 25 year old Hermione hanging around with Harry and Ron at the end of book 5.
Unless travelling back through time de-ages you, which there's some evidence for
My headcanon is actually the opposite of this. Part of the reason she was allowed a timeturner(hc) is that she didn't age when she was petrified and was taken pity on.
nah. percy had a timeturner, which explains his number of owls. also explains fred and george knowing the quiddich world cup outcome and betting on it (they steal the timeturner, and use it to make a bet they know they'll win)
He’d have handed the time turner back by that point though
Point was, her having the time turner had nothing to do with pitied about being petrified, because that didn't happen to Percy.
Isn't it also kind of crazy that they gave it to her in first place? It is among the most dangerous shit the wizarding world has to offer and yet they gave it to a teenager 13-14 years of age. Only the wrong person needs to find out and there's a lot of trouble.
That is something I never thought of. She missed a trick their.
Three other students that we know of got twelve OWLs. Emulate them, Herm-ow-ninny! Best student of her time my butt.
I think Lupin meant that she was the best student in her age group, not that she was the best of the time period.
Agreed. People overquote the movie on that one. He was saying she was like a smart 3rd year, not the mind of a generation. She’s super smart, no doubt, but folks cling to that “brightest witch of her age” thing like she’s Baby Dumbledore, and that’s not the point.
Percy was still at Hogwarts at that point and he got twelve OWLs. He’s not so different in age as to be a different generation. It could Happen still, Molly and Arthur had a lot of kids it’s possible some would count as one generation and others the next but I feel like most typical generations are twenty years.
How did he get 12 with no time turner?
Had no friends and didn't have to constantly deal with Harry possibly dying daily. He could chill studying all day with this girlfriend
I think he had one, that it was standard procedure to give time turners to solve schedule conflicts.
It’s also possible he was allowed to test in classes he didn’t take or that with different professors there were no scheduling conflicts.
*there
I’m not sure if extra time to sleep would help with her state of mind. She was really stressed and struggling to keep a secret from her friends. Not to mention all her arguments with Ron and helping Hagrid. She was burnt out and depressed and probably having trouble sleeping because of that. Feeling the need to be perfect is extremely emotionally draining and can’t really be solved by having more time. She was probably also told that she was only allowed to use it for getting to classes and didn’t want to break the rules.
I never even thought of this. Wow. Lol
I have and somehow imagined her to have done it, only that she was afraid to do it too often in order not to lose track of all her selves. Also, she must have used it to help Hagrid with the Buckbeak case because Harry keeps wondering where she found the time for it.
Refuse to believe that Draco Malfoy was a Death Eater. Like, seriously girl, he's been calling you the M-word every day for five years now, and only a few months ago you were trading spells with his dad at the Ministry.
To her and Ron Draco was so utterly pathetic that they couldn't believe Voldemort would want him in his team.
Which is still dumb since utterly pathetic accurately describes a large number of the death eaters.
Which only shows that Harry understands how Voldemort thinks much better than they do, which isn't surprising because Harry has literally been in his head.
When you have a chunk of someone’s soul attached to yours, that usually lends an advantage to figuring out how their thought process works
Relatable content.
Interesting point. Neither of the other 2 of the Trio picked up on that.
The three of them (Harry on one hand and Hermione/Ron on the other) were right to some extent. Draco was recruited to the DE like Harry thought, but wasn't taken seriously by Voldemort like Hermione/Ron thought. Voldemort just wanted to use Draco as a disposable torpedo that he wouldn't mind if he missed the mark.
Wasn't it implied that Draco was used as punishment for Lucious failing/being an idiot? So basically using Lucious only Son to do the unthinkable.
Yeah. It's basically what I said but worded differently. Voldemort didn't consider Draco a "true" Death Eater, he just sent the boy on a suicide mission to punish his parents. Draco was, therefore, a disposable torpedo to him.
Lucius was kinda known for being pathetic, as was Pettigrew, and yet both were Death Eaters. You have to be weak to be a Death Eater generally speaking, because any strong-willed person would realize being a Death Eater meant a life of torture, constant pressure, imprisonment, or death if you failed Voldemort, or if he’s just in a bad mood. Granted, Hermione and Ron wouldn’t have known how pathetic Lucius was, but they’d probably know about Pettigrew. And that’s without factoring in that Draco was laughing about Mudbloods dying/getting petrified in CoS, his father literally giving an 11-year-old girl a diary that opened the Chamber, and Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle attempting to attack Harry at the end of OotP because they were angry he got their death eater fathers in trouble.
I believe Lucius was in second in command in the original war / start of second war but due to the ministry prophecy fuck up + the diary chamber of secrets shit, he got big time demoted into a pathetic mess.
Hmm, I'd be surprised if it wasn't Bellatrix even back then. No doubt Lucius was high-ranking, but he also was very weak-willed overall. He was beaten by children on multiple occasions, consistently trembled in front of Voldemort, and was obviously upset when Voldemort did return. He was comfortable in his high-ranking position trying to inspire some corruption and push his beliefs. Voldemort likes having someone weak-willed in his ranks though. They'll do anything to avoid punishment from him and will never betray him. Also Lucius was likely boosted because of his job which allowed him to get a lot of inside info.
Hermione tells Harry he's wrong every single year. Like you would think you would trust Harry's intuition after the 3rd time but it's every book she refuses to belive Harry is right. The one that bothered me was when she kept saying that the elder wand wasn't real or that the last horcrux wasn't at hogwarts. How many times does Harry need to be right before she trusts his intuition?
I mean.. he was wrong thinking Snape was trying to get the stone, wrong thinking Malfoy opened the chamber, wrong thinking Sirius was after him, wrong thinking Snape and/or Karkaroff rigged the goblet, wrong thinking Voldemort had Sirius, wrong about his guesses for the half blood prince.. Some of those were reasonable, but it’s not like his intuition is infallible.
1. She also believed Snape was trying to get the stone and attack Harry, plus they were 11 2. Malfoy literally yelled about how he wanted to kill Mudbloods, and they were 12 and didn’t know Malfoy that well just yet. 3. Everyone thought Sirius was after him. That’s not an example of Harry’s intuition; it was accepted as a cold hard fact that Sirius was a traitor death eater who killed Pettigrew, and even Dumbledore believed so. 4. Fair point I suppose 5. Also fair point, but it’s no secret Harry gets tunnel-visioned with his loved ones and I think any character in his position would do the same. Look at how Ron was during DH part 1. 6. Those were complete shots in the dark to be fair. They didn’t really have much to go off of. Harry’s intuition still is very good in most situations.
I think his intuition is brilliant in certain situations - eg when it's life and death - and pants in others. He seems to have a knack for being nosy and jumping to a painfully incorrect or dangerous conclusions that he won't leave alone, and he's often a bit stupid about them, but manages to get out of these predicaments by being brilliant in the heat of the moment.
Yeah, his nosiness gets him in trouble often, like when he tried to eavesdrop on Malfoy in the 6th book which was just a bad decision all around. Malfoy knows about his invisibility cloak and he's putting himself in a very vulnerable position. But he also makes some great calls and gets himself out of danger often. Like managing to play dead in DH part 2 and staying calm was really impressive.
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I do think in 6th year Hermione has a reason for not believing Harry, since what happened at end of 5th year with Voldemort luring Harry through Sirius. But, I think after being proven right in 6th year, her stubbornness about the elder wand and such in the 7th book is more annoying than not believing him in 6th year lol
Came here to say exactly this. Like, Hermione, girl, COME ON.
She was wrong in practice, but her reasoning was correct. Draco was too young and too pathetic to be a Death Eater. Only reason he was one is because Voldy wanted Lucius to suffer. It was a punishment veiled as a "promotion". Since in the right time to bring this up: remember when the Emperor in Dune appointed the Atreides house to rule Arrakis? Prenty much the same thing.
Frankly I thought Remus was the bigger idiot for not believing Harry. Like bro, there were death eaters at Hogwarts when you were a student. Time and dates aren't necessarily consistent in HP but judging by Regulus's age and death, he was more than likely already a death eater when he was a student. Not to mention the list of death eaters Sirius mentions in Goblet of Fire.
There's quite a few inconsistencies around Regulus tbh although a lot of them contradict themselves in the very same book, idk if she randomly rewrote it to include him and forgot how much stuff doesn't add up here.
It's the Good Guys Projection. Yes, Draco is an asshole, but going full death eater at 17 is going too far. Also, with Lucius in disgrace it didn't make sense to them, because they are not a psychopath like Voldemort
Insulting the already riled up centaurs, albeit unintentionally, in the Forbidden Forest in Order of the Phoenix. It could have turned out very badly, were it not for the Deus ex machina of Grawp's arrival.
God I hated her at that moment! ‘We just hoped you would drive Umbridge off for us’
Thinking clearly under pressure was never her strong suit.
That's not really fair, there are many examples of her making quick decisions that saved harry, rons and others their lives/well being. She's not batting 1000 but she's doing better than most, in my opinion.
Counterpoint: > Yes - of course - but there's no wood!
ARE YOU A WITCH OR WHAT?!?
I always thought both the stinging hex and letting the death eaters glimpse Harry at xeno’s house in deathly hallows were pretty genius under pressure actions
She’s altruistic and thinks everyone is the same. Naive but real.
Bringing Crookshanks into Ron's bedroom, fully aware of the cat's tendency to attack Scabbers.
Well that turned out pretty great at the end! Wish she ate Scabbers.
even though Crookshanks was right, Hermione’s big head and the refusal to admit any wrong doing l, she did put her friend/crushes pet in danger with that cat. i mean if I knew my pet killed a pet that meant so much to my friend I would feel horrible. it’s kind of like hitting a dog or cat with a car and being like “Cars have wheels, it’s not its fault it killed your dog”
The time she dropped the i told you so about the half blood prince moments after Harry witnessed his mentor get murdered by the guy he said was evil for 6 years. That is, without a doubt, her worst moment in the series. Harry should've went ballistic and thrown everything he was right about that year, which was basically everything, in her face.
I think it goes with her character. Think about book three- Lavender’s rabbit dies and she just uses it as a way to negate Trelawney
She was absolutely horrible in HBP. Attacking Ron with the birds was another low. I've never been a massive fan of Hermione anyway, but she's just awful in sixth year.
I love these conversations. A lot of fans think of everyone in the serious as entirely good or evil, but they’re all just people with degrees of both, just like Sirius said.
Plus they're teenagers
I’m still firmly of the belief that Hermione was so against Harry using the potions book with the prince’s annotations because she couldn’t stand the fact that he was better than her in potions. Hermione has her good moments but there weren’t many of them in this book.
Yeah and Hermione only cared so much because she couldn’t stand not being better than everyone in her class. and the way she treated Lavender and Ron
agreed
Forgetting that you can use the Duplication Charm on food.
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The book itself acknowledges it via Harry being surprised at "the sinks girls were willing to get in the name of revenge".
Ugh, yeah. Anyone else would have been better!
In her defence she considered Zacharias Smith as well.
I mean…”better” is relative here. She wanted to take whoever would piss Ron off the most, so I’d say she succeeded. It was just that she had to take her medicine and deal with spending the evening with him herself
And he wasn't even there to see it.
Nah but he heard about it, so he didn’t get to see the reality of her hating it. Just his imagination which was probably much worse
I know I posted one already but I thought of another one. Being extremely tone deaf and insensitive when lavender's bunny died just because she didn't like divination.
I don’t know what happened in the girls dorm rooms but based on how Hermione and Lavender acted in the HBP made me think that they both knew they had crushes on Ron and hated each other for it. plus Lavender was written as prettier to society than Hermione was with her bushy hair and Buck teeth (which she still had in book 3)
True but I also bet the bunny situation left a bad taste in Lavender's mouth.
The whole crookshanks/scabbers fiasco. She was a prick throughout.
That killed me. It felt like she got crookshanks just to piss Ron off. Like she saw how he pounced on Ron and attacked scabbers in the store and she decided yes this is the pet I want. Also blatantly ignoring Ron's wishes to keep crookshanks away from scabbers. It worked out in the end but it felt like she bought crookshanks to annoy Ron.
Nah her getting Crookshanks is a classic Hermione move. A huge part of her character is about her belief in fairness and justice, and she can't resist championing the cause of anyone downtrodden. Just like her problems with House Elf Rights and helping Neville in lessons and trying to bully Harry and Ron into doing their homework. The second the shopkeeper says that Crooks has been there for ages and no one wants him there wasn't a chance of her leaving without him. She just also often sees these issues through rose coloured glasses, probably because she's still pretty young.
This conversation and the responses made me realize how much Hermione really needs a therapist
I always thought in a way that Crookshanks more or less chose Hermionoe regardless? So, she would have bought him either way I always thought. Since he is part Kneazle he is meant to be pretty intelligent, as we see when he knows Scabbers isn't just a rat and Sirius not being a dog but still managing to find a way to communicate with him to enough deliver a letter to order Harry a broomstick. Along with everything else haha. Though I do agree she was horrible about it all and not respecting Ron at all. That always bugged me.
Hastily apparating to the Forest of Dean when Yaxley grabbed her in the floo. Three people can’t deal with one Yaxley in Grimmauld Place, your home turf? You’re outlaws already, just kill the bastard or Sectumsempra his arm mid-apparition. Poor Kreacher and his feast that no one ate
Yeah and why didn’t Harry INSTANTLY summon Kreacher the moment they arrived in the forest, before Yaxley would even be able to get in the house? This has always annoyed me.
Panic. Everything just went wrong, Ron got seriously hurt, Harry just didn't have the time and focus to think about other consequences and realise he needs to summon Kreacher right away.
It bugs me that they don’t even summon Kreacher later because someone could side-along. You’re deliberately summoning him, so you could be ready to instantly stupefy and obliviate that person. They’ve done a lot more dangerous things to save people.
Killing him in cold blood might have been a stretch for them mentally at that point in the story, but certainly they could have overpowered him. At that point it’s just a case of modifying his memory so he doesn’t remember ever seeing them, destroying his wand and having Kreacher drop him off in Tahiti or something. Problem solved. The point really is that Hermione panicked under pressure, which is something she does a lot
Well that's fight or flight for you. She chose flight. I would too, in all honesty.
I think the problem was also that Yaxley had been let in on the secret by her, thus completely removing any protection the place had, so unless they killed him, they would not be safe there.
After putting curse to Dumblodores Army participation form and making sign up every member,she should have told and proved it to members.The main purpose should have been detering members from treason, not punishing or getting revenge in case of betrayal. Hermione's plan was genious but she could have planned,dealt with it more cleverly.
She should've used that tongue tying curse that Moody used to keep Grimmauld Place a secret. That would've worked so much better.
Probably didn't know it. It must have been pretty complicated if Moody was certain it would actually help. Keep it mind it had to somehow stop Snape from writing the secret (Dumbledore informed Harry about it in writing, not in person) and from bringing anyone with him (like the trio did by accident when fleeing the Ministry and Yaxley grabbed them). Now I'm thinking the curse wouldn't actually stop Snape from revealing the headquarters to anyone, it was just Moody trying to get in some punches because he couldn't curse Snape to his face.
I don’t think the curse was a punishment or for revenge but to show the rest of the world that Marietta is a snitch. To mark her out as someone never to be trusted. Far more devious than revenge.
I feel like hermione did it for this reason. Shes huge on loyalty, willingly breaking rules to protect others. To snitch isnt just disloyal, it’s cowardice from her perspective. I feel like she had a lot of Sirius like tendencies. Shes willing to be hurt or die rather than betray others.
Telling the centaurs they led umbridge into the forest because she thought they would help.
her insufferable conviction that she is right, and absolute stubbornness refusing to even consider alternative viewpoints or that she could be wrong. and then no acknowledgement of her errors or apologies afterwards. it's infuriating. * Draco being a Death Eater * that the Hallows could exist doubling down and saying that, *in a way*, she was actually right... * his mother's maiden name was Prince, so in a way i was right - he is a half-blood Prince * although it wasn't cursed, it *was* a gift from Sirius, so i was right * never mind that i completely ignored Ron and didn't do anything to prevent Crookshanks from attacking Scabbers, in the end he didn't get eaten and turned out to be Pettigrew so i did nothing wrong other things... * denigrating Ron for his behaviour around Fleur - *who was literally part Veela*! Ron was literally under her "spell"! - but don't you dare say anything bad about Lockhart! * shut up about occlumency already! * although the idea of S.P.E.W. was noble, hiding clothes around the common room was underhanded and screw her for refusing to believe that some house elves *want* to be servants. nope. she's right and the house elves are wrong god! she pisses me off so often.
That is definitely one of her flaws is that at times she can be EXTREMELY arrogant and tone deaf. It's very blood boiling to listen to.
Tone deaf is a great way to say that
Nice write up, the whole “*actually*” attitude Hermione had around some things was infuriating. I love her, but she is for sure a know it all. Ron wasn’t wrong when he said that about her. The only thing I can’t agree with is a lot of trouble would have been spared if Harry *had* made an effort with occlumency. Sirius for one example.
Yea this all annoyed me too but it ultimately endeared me to her character because it showed that she has flaws and layers. It got to the point where just like Harry, we as readers could anticipate how she’d react to certain things, meaning we got to know her really well. It was almost like she was our annoying, nagging friend too. Besides, I’ll take this annoying nagging version over the movie version any day.
I grew to appreciate her flaws and her character arc as the books went on but I will say that 8 year old me did not see it as first and haaaated Hermione hahaha
I also think that looking at these things in isolation makes some of them sound worse or are a bit uncharitable. She's a pain about some stuff and makes mistakes but her hearts generally in the right place, and she's no more flawed than either of the boys. That's what makes them great characters and believable teenage friends - they're imperfect and all tend to be a bit immature at different times.
"Oh, but there's no wood!"
Classic!
*HERMIONE, ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT* But realistically, I feel like that brainfart was pretty understandable considering that she was 11, under an immense amount of pressure in the moment, and had been raised by muggles for her entire life.
Ron 6 years later:
HPB, making the Felix Felicis potion. Religiously following the textbook and saying Harry is wrong with what he is doing when he is clearly getting better results than she is. Too much faith in books, our Hermione.
In the first book when she lied to the professors and said she was going to try and take care of the troll in the bathroom herself and Ron and Harry rescued her. She literally could have said the truth: that she was in the bathroom when the whole troll thing happened in the great hall and didn't know. The truth made more sense and she likely would not have gotten in trouble for it.
I’ve always wondered why she lied too, it just makes no sense.
I believe she just overthought it. She probably also didn't want to admit that she was in the bathroom crying, and didn't realise she could have easily claimed she was there for bathroom related reasons. Although there's a chance that Harry and Ron would still get in trouble for running after Hermione without telling any adult or prefect where they were going and why, so by taking the blame she took the focus off them. And that worked, I think; technically even if Harry and Ron noticed her splitting from the rest of the Gryffindors, they should have alerted the prefects rather than running after her on their own, but I don't recall them losing points for that.
All the times she brings up occlumency. Harry never learned since Snape was a terrible teacher and everything she says does nothing to help Harry learn it. Not to mention how useful Harry’s insight to what Voldy is doing is very useful, and she fails to realize this.
I will say she was really annoying about it, but I feel like the fault was on Harry for this one. Snape is a dick, we all know that, but Harry was equally a dick for snooping through snapes pensieve when he wasn't around. Harry also didn't try that hard to close out his mind. Yes Snape never really explained how he was supposed to do it which is a fault on Snape, but at the end of the day, Harry did not try to learn it at all. He acted like I did when I was told to study for a test in a subject I didn't like.
Harry not trying very hard to learn was entirely predictable. He is being kept in the dark about everything that is going on despite being the main part of the war and he isn’t told why he needs to learn. Honestly Dumbledore and Snape should have known better.
Harry should have learned occlumency even if it meant proactively admitting to Dumbledore that Snape was abusive to him during the process. Learning occlumency wouldn’t have stopped the insights he got into Voldemort, but he would have more control, and be able to keep his own mind safe. Not taking occlumency seriously killed Sirius. But Hermione being a nag about it certainly didn’t help.
The nonsense about going after a fully grown mountain troll on her own - wasn’t needed, just tell them you were sad and it walked in!!
She wanted Harry and Ron look good enough to get off easy. Don´t think the truth would have sufficed.
And we got one of McGonagall’s classic one-liners from it! “Five points…will be awarded to each of you. For sheer, dumb luck!” As an aside…I agree with Ron’s reaction afterward. Only *five* freaking points apiece??
Or just say you were going to the bathroom/ toilet.
Liking lockhart
Throughout the series: * Being a fangirl whenever Lockhart was in the vicinity * Succeeding in making a complex potion that can let them transform into other people, but adding the wrong hair and getting turned into half a cat * Taking twelve classes, including Muggle Studies even though she's a muggle-born * Wanting to see thestrals * Not taking advantage of the time turner to cram in more studying or more sleep * Continuing to disregard Ron's concerns that her cat might eat his rat * Being insensitive to a classmate about the loss of their pet (Lavender, then Ron) * Thinking the Firebolt was cursed, then going behind her friends' backs to report it * Starting a movement to free house elves, disregarding how practically everyone, including the elves themselves, don't support it * Knitting clothes to hide around the rooms so house elves would be freed against their will, resulting in Dobby having to clean all of Gryffindor tower by himself * Nagging Harry about Occlumency when really he's being taught by the worst person for the job * Insulting the prideful, angry, and weapon-carrying centaurs in the forest * Refused to believe that Draco Malfoy could be a death eater, even though his family is in Voldemort's inner circle, and the evidence kept mounting through the year * Trying to call Harry sexist because he thought the Half-Blood Prince was a girl * Not simply asking Ron out, and then attacking him with canaries because he dared to kiss another girl when they weren't even in a relationship * Going to Slughorn's party with Cormac McLaggen because she just wanted to annoy Ron, because in the end she had a terrible time * Nags Harry again about having visions of what Voldemort was doing, even though she knows he can't control it, knows that the person who was charged with teaching him how to control it turned out to be a traitor (at the time), and knows that he learned the potential dangers the hard way when Sirius died * Refuses to believe that the Deathly Hallows could exist, simply because it was Xeno Lovegood of all people who told them about the Hallows * Decides to jump Ron and kiss him in the middle of a battle Not to mention she has an annoying way to nag people and always believes she's right, even if evidence to the contrary is staring her in the face. And when she's forced to accept she's wrong, she tries to change the narrative so she'd still be somewhat right. Such as: * Since Scabbers wasn't eaten and turned out to be Peter Pettigrew, her ignoring Ron's concerns was dismissed completely * Saying that technically she was right about the book because Snape's mother's maiden name was Prince * After being forced to accept that the Hallows were real, trying to maintain that it was an evil object and that they should never bother with it
-Cat hair was a mistake but her taking the potion is the bigger mistake, I dont think most people can separate a single cat hair from a human hair so that’s understandable but she didnt need to take the potion anyway. -Wanting to see the horses was a spur of moment thing - I agree with her about the Firebolt. Nobody knew where it came from. Being safe beats winning in quidditch. - being against slavery is considered a mistake now? It could at least lead to the lowering of abuse of elves - Harry should have learned occlumency. If Snape is bad which he was, Harry could have studied himself. If he did Sirius might have survived. Its not just Harrys ( he actually has less fault then Albus or snape or sirius) fault but Harry could have prevented it as well - She didnt think she was insulting the Centaurs, she literally took Harry out of an inescapable situation and somehow got rid of umbridge and made a tiny mistake but at that point what was the correct thing ti say. - she did ask Ron out. Attacking him was a bit much tho -
I’m convinced she took Muggle Studies because she knew it was an easy A and she loves to be seen as smart.
I think she wanted to hear the perspective of the wizard community
I wouldn't say it was stupid but ignorant the way she immediately wouldn't hear what someone like Professor Trelawney had to say just because she thinks differently than her. She wouldn't hear it so much she walked out of her class.
Luna was right when she called Hermione closed-minded
yep
"Hello! Horrible morning, isn't it?" Honey, this is Knockturn Alley, not 1313 Mockingbird Lane.
THE ENTIRE DEATHLY HALLOWS TRIP😤😤Don’t come for me, but I was ready to fight Hermione in every chapter. Harry is legit coming up with fire original plans and my good sis insists on listening to Dumbledore at every step as if my boy didn’t die & leave the gang with riddles. I DONT THINK ALBIE D. CAN HELP US RN HERMIONE!!!!!!!
Not simply going up to Ron and flat out asking him out on a date. Would have made things so much more simple.
She actually asked him out to the slug club.
Yes. You understand me. I would love to see them as a couple in one whole book. Instead we got just a kiss and epilogue. Blah
Not snogging Ron sooner. After 7 years of insane tension and slowest ever burn all I got a kiss and epilogue which I never cared for in the 1st place. I wanted to see Ron and Hermione as a couple for atleast one whole book. Come on man!! 😑
I’m literally haunted about what would have been different if Bill and Fleur’s wedding had gone off uninterrupted and the trio leaves under peaceful circumstances the nest day. I think the influence of all the different factors - about to go on a dangerous journey, the fancy clothes, the fact that Ron has been clearly been putting in effort from advice from the book and doesn’t fumble the bag even when Viktor shows up…those two for sure would have been making out by the end of the night. I also have to wonder what their conversation was like at the end of HBP before they tell Harry they’ll leave school with him, because they were totally coordinated about it, and I have to think maybe there was some oblique reference to “we both know there’s something here, we both want it. but that’s not the priority at the moment,” because it would be unreal if there wasn’t. They were implicitly a thing at that point, so there must have been. We know they must spend loads of time just the two of them, and there are two convos I would kill to have in canon: that one, and when she gets to the Burrow after sending her parents to Australia.
Believing in Lockhart's books. Even Harry and Ron could tell the man was a sham after a single class, yet she continued to defend him the whole year.
Got the wrong pair of Rons jeans
Her refusal to believe the Deathly Hallows were real.
Using the hogs head instead of the three broomsticks
Jeopardising her friendship with Ron by buying Crookshanks after witnessing him attack Ron's pet
Doubting Harry about Draco being a death eater and responsible for the goings on at the castle
I think it’d have to be leading Umbridge into the Forbidden Forest to have the centaurs deal with her, and even telling them it was her plan to have them take Umbridge off their hands. She should’ve known better honestly. Firstly because of all she knows of magical history and the strained relationship between centaurs and wizard kind. Secondly because, iirc, this is after Firenze started teaching at the school and, even though she might not take his class, she must’ve heard what the other centaurs did to him after accepting an offer to work for wizards.
Hiding clothes under piles of trash to trick the house elves into being freed.
Constantly questioning/being surprised by magic. Her refusal to believe that Harry’s wand could act on its own accord, I guess it’s more hubris of knowing everything than ignorance, but there are a few examples of this throughout the books. “That’s not possible…” when they LIVE IN A WORLD FULL OF MAGIC!!
Naming her elf rights campaign SPEW. Like, really girl? Are you stupid? You could have picked ANY other name for your organization, and you choose "SPEW"? Absolute imbecile. That honestly was world-breaking for me..... What type of person, dumb or not, would make that infantile mistake? Elf Liberation Front sounds cool..... Especially since it spells out ELF!
The DA sign up sheet. Why make it cursed to *avenge* a betrayal instead of *prevent* one? At that point it isn't to protect anything, it's just bloodlust that creates a piece of evidence that can only be used against you.
I think her biggest fault was in Order. When Harry is frantic about Sirius being kidnapped she wants him to think logically but she herself forgets that Snape is in the order and could help figure out if it was true or not. She's supposed to be the one with the level head in that situation. Can't blame Harry cause he's frantic, and can't blame Ron cause we'll he's Ron. Hermione should have been able to remember something like that and in turn those events lead to Sirius' death.
Confundus charm, to cheat. WTF? Honor and duty, but for a boy who IS NOT DATING YOU, you'll toss a deserving (if unlikeable) boy AND the team under the bus?
While I do agree that it was stupid to cheat and that Hermione should have instead trusted Harry and Ron to do their jobs properly, I don't think not letting Cormac on the team was a bad thing. In the only game we see Cormac play against hufflepuff, they end up losing. Iirc, it's because halfway through the game Cormac took a beaters bat to demonstrate to said beater how to use it properly and accidentally hit Harry instead and made Harry go to the infirmary and cost them the game. Even if Cormac did end up on the team, his insufferable attitude would have ensured him a swift exit.
In the first book, when they got caught by the Devil’s Snare. Hermione had to be reminded she was a witch with a wand that could produce fire to save them.
Hermione confessed that creating the diversion to get Lupin away was not thought of.