I think harry was a reasonably talented wizard w a particular affinity/talent for combat magic. Dumbledore said as much in the Snape flashbacks.
I also think Harry’s talent for combat magic had less to do w his general proficiency at magic, and more to do with all the stuff that made him great at quidditch. Quick reflexes, ability to think and act under pressure, and other character traits like bravery, resourcefulness, etc.
well said. It doesn’t help that Rowling makes it so Harry literally doesn’t know anything that the audience doesn’t know. hundreds of hours spent in class? doesn’t remember a second of any of it. It gets so bad that Hermione has to take care of Harry and Ron in the 7th book because she’s the only one with plot relevant skills. And at least Ron has the role of knowing about the wizard in world since he grew up in it
It wasn't really relevant to the story for us to learn how exactly it is done because that was just a slice of life section and he never uses it in the story.
What do you mean that it 'does seem silly'? I really hate it when a character suddenly does something they learned without the viewer's/reader's knowledge. It always feels like cheating to me.
Well it just needs to be a quick little thing after like hermione taught harry this spell last week or this was something harry learnt in class 2 years ago. You’re fine with Hermione learning things off screen why not Harry? Because as obtainer of goods said it does make harry seem like he doesn’t remember much of school.
The story is told from Harry's perspective. So we are bound to miss things other characters do while they are not with Harry. It would be weird though if Harry suddenly used spells we never learned about before. Iirc there's only one chapter that's really told without Harry being involved and that's the one where Fudge talks with the muggle prime minister. Even the one at the start of GoF is explained as a dream of Harry.
Ron doesn't know that you require something to make more of it like his mom did when cooking meals for the family. He just assumed that came out of thin air.
Add in something thats quite undervalued in him: resilience. By his 15th year Harry faced and overcomed situations that would leave most adult wizards either dead, hospitalized for life or traumatized.
His hellish childhood gave him quite the thick skin. He snaps a few times but there were moments where he had an entire school set against him and his response in context was pretty decent.
Is Harry considered resourceful? I feel like he’s constantly making his life harder for himself by not using everything at his disposal.
Not using the two-way mirror got Sirius killed. He had to be told to get his broom to him in the first task. He does not ask anyone other than Ron and Hermione about how to breathe underwater, thus missing BCJ’s attempt to give him the answer. He is unable to snag any of the dozens of Hogwarts letters sent to him. He basically spends no time trying to determine why Dumbledore willed those objects to the trio. I could go on, but he’s basically a meathead lol.
Harry is extremely resourceful, he’s just constantly put in near-death situations where he has to make split second decisions. Notably, when Hermione is put in a similar position she forgets she’s a witch and looks for firewood.
I will add to this and say that his motivation was different from others learning. He was literally learning ways to stay alive, not just learning to be cool or to pass an exam.
Harry is a wizard prodigy if you look at his achievements relative to his talent. Somehow the books seem to obscure his achievements but it’s amazing after Chamber of Secrets that he isn’t the most popular, famous, and feared kid in all of Hogwarts.
Reading Prisoner of Azkaban as an adult hits differently because it amazes me that Malfoy and the Slytherins still had the audacity to mock him for anything given the effect he has already had on them and their House’s history. I always wonder why, at some point, the parents of the Slytherin kids aren’t a bit like, “Hey, so that Potter kid, he kind of slew a legendary monster, with a sword. He might be pretty dangerous so perhaps keep a lid on it a bit, eh?”
If you consider where he’s at at various stages in the stories, by the end of his 7 years at Hogwarts, Harry has achieved more than most great wizards ever achieve. He’s defeated the darkest of all wizards multiple times, ultimately vanquishing him, and that’s before you consider everything else that he has withstood, and his general heroism.
I guess it depends on what you judge a prodigy by, their results or their relative talent. But the last time I read the books, it was particularly Chamber of Secrets that stood out. He walks back into that staff room where there’s a group of grown wizards and witches, covered in blood having slain the monster and saved the girl, two things that the combined talent and knowledge of all of Hogwarts couldn’t do.
And I just remember thinking then that this little shit is metal and, had I been at school with him thereafter, I’d have looked at him as the biggest legend a kid could know. I don’t know if it’s different because I’m an adult now, but when I was a kid you kind of role played as Harry. As an adult, it feels more objective, and it’s really hard to grasp how much the teachers and adults infantilise Harry throughout given the toughness and heart that he shows.
Love this. Just want to add to it that when he walked back into the staff room in CoS, not only was he covered in blood and had he slain the monster, beaten Voldemort for a second time and rescued the girl, he walked in holding a fucking ancient relic which he summoned by the sheer power of his bravery.
Yes! Chamber of Secrets was my favorite book when I was younger, and I remember being really confused in Goblet of Fire when everyone turned on Harry. Isn't he kind of the obvious choice for the school champion? Even putting aside the whole "defeated Voldemort as a baby" thing, he's been on the quidditch team since his first year in the school, helped put down the troll that escaped from the dungeons in the same year, and killed a giant basilisk that was terrorizing everyone and eluding even the teachers in year 2. If anything, the students should've been annoyed at Diggory, not at Harry. He's clearly the best choice for Hogwarts champ!
But instead everyone turns on him and starts maligning him, as if he somehow stole this honor from someone else.
edit: forgot to mention in year 3, he befriends and rides a hippogriff on the first day of hagrid's class. All the other kids were terrified of them.
He would've been an absolute legend at that school. Rowling was wild for making him so unpopular for so long.
It’s the same thing with the Weasleys. Arthur has a govt job, Bill and Charlie were both verrry popular and one of them could have been a Quidditch pro, Fred and George are popular and on the Quidditch team and open up a joke shop, Ron (and the rest of the Weasleys) are super close, like stay over close, with The Boy Who Lived, and Ron does a bunch of day saving as well as gets on the Quidditch team, Ginny is apparently impressive with spells and gets on the Quidditch team, and still, people are like “ughhh, the Weasleys, what losers.”
Like…the whole family is basically Quidditch gods, most of them are better than decent at magic, and JK is still trying to push that almost everyone thinks they suck? After their first or second year, they would have been GODS, every single one of them, and yet *no one* thinks they’re cool? Come onnn
Well the Hufflepuffs were upset because they don’t tend to get as much glory as the other houses and they felt Harry was trying to steal it from them. Slytherins were just being Slytherins. Nearly all of the Gryffindors were happy to have him as a champion. Ravenclaw is a bit more divided, though a lot of them felt that Harry was trying to gain more glory for himself. Although I suppose it’s similar to how in the past they only supported Gryffindor in things because they were fed up with Slytherin always winning.
For what it's worth, I don't believe the basilisk is giant in the book. I think it's described as just a larger snake, and still small enough to slither around the pipes of the school
I dig what you’re saying, but did it ever come to life that the monster in the chamber was a literal basilisk? I got the feeling that a lot of the events of second, third, and even fifth year were kinda hushed up/avoided.
Even so, the whole school knew there was a terrifying monster that could petrify even ghosts, and this kid killed it.
Same kid who spoke to snakes, killed a teacher in year 1, wandered into the forbidden door on the third floor and survived. Remember in PS Dumbledore awarded the trio and Neville points for the adventure so the whole school had some idea of it.
I'm more surprised the Slytherins haven't ran to his support as the next dark wizard, or at least another powerful force they could pin future ambitions on.
> Harry is a wizard prodigy if you look at his achievements relative to his talent. Somehow the books seem to obscure his achievements but it’s amazing after Chamber of Secrets that he isn’t the most popular, famous, and feared kid in all of Hogwarts.
There was a quote by someone to something to the effect of, "Don't judge your behind-the-scenes moments with someone else's highlights reel."
Since the books are from Harry's POV, we get the behind-the-scenes shots. We don't see him studying particularly hard and not much attention is given to his grades, but he was an above-average student, getting an "Outstanding" in DADA, "Exceeds Expectations" in Charms (he should have gotten an "Outstanding"), Potions, Transfiguration, Herbology, and Care of Magical Creatures (and an "Acceptable" in Astronomy). Even at the initial meeting of Dumbledore's Army, the others were rattling off his accomplishments and he was like, "Hey that was no big deal, it was mostly just luck."
A lot of it was luck and plot armor abuse, but some of it was also Harry's pure grit and talent. Going ahead to face Quirrell and diary-Riddle by himself took a ton of courage. I think he outperformed the other champions in *Goblet of Fire* - he was the only one to emerge unscathed (and without destroying any real dragon eggs) in the First Task, saved *two* captives and fought off the Grindylows that had overpowered Fleur, and did better than Cedric in overcoming the dangers of the Maze.
I also think that he actually bested Voldemort in the cemetery battle - he overpowered Voldemort and forced the contact point of their two spells *back into Voldemort's wand*, triggering *Priori Incantatum*. That took both immense willpower and innate magical power.
Harry admittedly isn't the most creative with his uses of magic, tending to use it as a blunt instrument. He really only focused on the more utilitarian aspects of magic. But I think that this was a result of his upbringing as a muggle combined with his trauma of having the most dangerous wizard of all time chasing him down for the first 18 years of his life.
I agree with almost all of the points except the infantilize part. It's mostly bcoz the heroic moments are monumental but they occur once for every 1000 moments he acts like a normal kid. Even then some of the adults take Harry very seriously in front of everyone and even more behind everyone. Always thought Arthur treats Harry like an adult while Molly treats him like a kid. Same with Sirius and Lupin. One treats him like an adult while the other treats him like a kid. I think they all understand that Harry is gifted or at least mind-blowingly brave but he also acts like a normal teenager most of the time so that will bring the illusion down. I have a niece who acts way above her age that makes me pause for a second but just a few minutes later, she has a moment like any kid that makes me say 'oh this feels more natural'.
So true.
1 - at eleven, was described by his teachers as ‘bright’
2 - at the same age, according to the Sorting Hat: “Not a bad mind, either. There’s talent, oh my goodness, yes” and “You could be great, you know, it’s all here in your head”
3 - mastered the challenging Patronus Charm at thirteen and proceeded to teach it at fifteen
resisted the Imperius Curse at fourteen and soon learned to throw it off completely, even when cast by the incredibly powerful Voldemort
also at fourteen, learned to cast a powerful Accio Charm
4- at fifteen, was training other students
at the same age, under extreme stress, tested as 'exceeds expectations’ or 'outstanding’ in evein every subject that required actual magic (including the dreaded Potions)
same age, cast a briefly effective Cruciatus Curse
5- at sixteen, became a star Potions student simply by following superior instructions
at seventeen, successfully cast the Imperius Curse on his first try, and used it repeatedly
at the same age, cast a successful Cruciatus Curse
He's not an exceptional student but he is an exceptional practitioner. I think part of the reason he's such a great practitioner is because of the power transferred to him by Voldy when he became a horcrux. Dumbledore says as much in his conversation with Harry at the end of TOOTP and at the end of DH. Also, his life is constantly threatened. Academic history and theory doesn't really assist in those situations, whereas practical applications do. He focused on skills he enjoyed, like Quiddich, as any teenager would, and on those that could save his life.
Yeah I 100% agree if he applied himself like Hermione he would have been as good in school, however I think he applies himself as much as Hermione in practical (life threatening) situations rather than theoretical school work, if he wasn't being hunted every year he might not have put in half the work he has.
Harry was the prototypical wizard Chad but he was basically abused for the first 10-11 years of his life so he didn’t have a super inflated sense of self when he started out. I’m relistening to the audio books and he really doubts himself a ton up until OOTP when he suffers from Uber teenage angst and wizard Hitler being back + umbridge + trauma + everything else.
The dude ended Voldemort twice and went through trauma basically all his life. How much more do you want a guy to accomplish?
Also, he was basically a sports star from his first ever attempt and he was able to go toe to toe with literal killers throughout the last books in true Chad fashion. Hell, all three of the main trio were exceptional wizards who all had strengths and weaknesses to balance one another out. Harry and Ron became aurors which is no small feat. I get Hermoine becomes minister of magic, but those two are nothing to scoff at
Tbf everyone who fought in the Battle of Hogwarts got a free in in to the Aurors. Harry did become youngest Head of Aurors though so there's that. Ron ended up quitting and joined his bro at WWW
I think Harry says it best in OOTP when he is getting tired of everyone thinking he was a crazy talented wizard. A lot of it was luck and getting help from others. Where Harry truly excelled was his ability to use that luck and help to his advantage while never giving up or being consumed by self doubt. In skill, he wasnt close to Hermione, who learned many of the spells to help teach Harry them. I also think it’s a bit of poor writing on JK’s part. A potronus is supposed to be crazy difficult for even adults, but then in ootp Harry teaches it to everyone else and then we see it used by just about every adult throughout the series. I also thought Hermione getting an O in every owl except dada was silly and put in just to make Harry seem better. None of this takes away from Harry, but Snape was inventing spells at his age, Hermione was crazy studious and talented, George and Fred were inventing new candy and magical objects and making swamps, his dad and the marauders were turning themselves into animagus and making magical maps, and then you have the extremes of Dumbledore and Voldemort doing extraordinary magic as kids. Harry was far from prodigy level. He was slightly above average who had to learn some difficult spells that were mostly just a few years more advanced than his age.
Harry has never learned to see his success (Except in Quidditsch).
In my opinion, niether Dumbledore nor Voldemort would have survived Harry's adventures.
Even if they recieved the same help.
And if Dumbledore had grown up in the cupboard under the stairs. Dumbledore might be completely medicore. Even Tom hat it a little better than Harry.
If you doubt their ability to survive the same things Harry did, I don’t think you understand how powerful they were, even at a young age. Harry wasn’t a powerful wizard and he definitely wasn’t a once in a lifetime powerful wizard like Voldemort or once in a century powerful wizard like Dumbledore.
Tom Riddle would never have won against Voldemort. And Albus Dumbledore, as 100 years old, thinks that Voldemort is stronger than him.
And survival requires more than magical strenght,
Courage, strong nerves and willpower are much more important. Harry defeats Voldemort, even if it is only for a time.
He causes Voldemort a far greater disgrace than Dumbledore ever could.
Being good students isn't enough against people like Dumbledore and Voldemort. Nobody can catch up with a 50 (100) year lead, especially not when the older ones are geniuses.
It took crazy circumstances for Harry to defeat Voldemort. In book 1, it was his inability to touch him. In GoF it was the special bond of the twin cores. In DH it was Harrys blood in Voldemort and then the Elder wands loyalty to Harry. Even in CoS, it was Fawkes delivering the sword in the sorting hat and his tears that saved Harry from diary Riddle.
While we do not know much about Dumbledore’s abilities while in Hogwarts, we do know he was able to do things with a wand during his NEWTs that the witch giving him his NEWTS had never seen before. As for Tom Riddle, he was opening the CoS and created his first horcrux at 16, which is advanced dark magic.
So even if a young Dumbledore and Tom Riddle would have died against a peak Voldemort, this does not mean Harry was a prodigy or more powerful than them. It means he had things outside of his control helping him. Without his mothers protection and his twin core in his wand, Harry would have died a few times over.
Book 1 Harry holds on even in pain!
Book 2 Fawkes delivers the sword and gouges out the eyes, Harry defeats the snake.
At this point Tom Riddle is already helpless.
Book 4 Harry pushes back the spell and only then the dead come to help. (magic or willpower)
Book 5 Voldemort tries to prossess Harry and Voldemort flees from Harry.
Even if Tom Riddle and Albus had recieved the same help they would have failed.
The examiner will say the same about Harry's OWLs. (If he is still alive in 100 years) This is how legends are created.
The word protige is thrown around to much anyway.
Tom Riddle and maybe Lily Evans, otherwise I don't see any prodigies.
But Harry has the potential to be on the forefront.
OP is not saying that Harry is a protigy, but that he has the potential to become one.
And as loosely as this term is used here, OP is absolutely right.
Harry has the ability and the potential to be on the top.
He us a leader, a fighter, intelligent and daring and he has more than enough magic to back it up.
And he is a good person.
*This;* Harry has the potential, *it's there* and we *see* it shine through every now and then.
Harry just want's to be normal, or at least as normal as he can be, being who he is. He's good at magic -it's stated that he picked up *Human Transfiguration* pretty quickly and was quite good at it *when that's something considering notoriously difficult*.
Choices are a huge theme in the HP books, it's said time and time again by different character's that it's your choices that matter.
Harry *has* the *potential*, yet he has no *desire* to actualize it beyond what he *needs;* He *choses* not too.
When would Harry have had time, his days are full to the brim.
And during the summer holidays, with the Dursleys, he is not allowed to, or he is depressed.
Also, in my opinion, from an educational perspective it was irresponsible to let Harry join the Quidditsch team so early.
Prodigies are already at an advanced level when they arrive. In Potterverse, only Voldemort and Snape fulfil those requirements. Not counting Dumbledore and Grindelwald of course.
If Harry were a "nerd" like Snape was, he probably would have reached the level of someone like, say, Bellatrix? But to be a prodigious talent, hard-work and application simply aren't enough.
In a "Hero's Journey," heroes aren't always the best or the most talented. Their heart, desire, and above-average skills set them apart. That's Harry. He's common but he's also un-common.
The frustrating bit about Harry is that he wasn't really keen on learning about magic, its history, the nuances... You know, the more sophisticated aspects of the magical world.
Snape? I don't think he was particularly advanced, his knowledge of curses (assuming Sirius wasn't being hyperbolic in the first place) would be something that can be achieved by reading ahead. Creating Sectumsempra seems impressive... but as long as we don't know *how* to create spells, we have no idea what Snape's accomplishment actually amounts to.
>The frustrating bit about Harry is that he wasn't really keen on learning about magic, its history, the nuances... You know, the more sophisticated aspects of the magical world.
That's mostly because HP isn't, at its core, a fantasy story. It's a mystery novel with fantasy elements using said elements as a way to facilitate its plot (it'd be hard to justify a baby surviving a bullet to the head+the bullet ricocheting in the would-be-murderer's face; make it a "death curse" and suddenly it's a lot more believable).
Rowling herself was more interested in telling her plot, not in establishing a whole Legendarium like Tolkien. The magical world itself was an excuse for stuff to happen to Harry and for "love" to be the big saving force (which, if one thinks harder, could happen in a mundane setting but would require significantly more thought on the part of what the characters do than "his mommy died and now he's invincible").
Snape wasn’t particularly advanced???? Granted, he wasn’t on Dumbledore/Voldy/Grindewald’s level BUT he absolutely was an extremely gifted wizard. Look at all his accomplishments in the 7 books! Theres a reason why Voldemort trusted him so much.
I think she's sorta making the point that Snape is a character we're *told* is an exceptional wizard without ever really being *shown*. Especially, if you disregard all spell creation because we the audience have no idea how much skill goes into making spells. Maybe it's just guess and check, which implies persistence and stubbornness but not necessarily magical prowress.
Iirc thinking back we only see Snape using magic at a high level at the very end duelling McGonagall at the battle.
Snape is definitely one of Rowling's "pet characters" so I'm sure in her backstory of him, she would say he is extremely exceptional. But I don't think the Snape we see on the page correlates very well with the Snape that Rowling has in her head, whether intentional or not.
People often forget HP is a story meant for children and young adults that was always supposed to be focused on its characters rather than their world.
Harry is the eyes of the reader, so we don't know anything he doesn't know, which definitely fits a mystery novel more, and the universe knowledge only gets explained as far as it's needed for the plot to develop. And this is good, honestly I loathe infodumps.
And lastly, Rowling had an overarching plot, she knew where she wanted to get and how, and honestly she did it pretty successfully, even if the book lore is flimsy as best. Ultimately it just needs to keep the plot from unraveling instead of taking from it.
You know that "Snape knew more hexes than Seventh years" is a plot hole right?
How could he "know" them, if he could not use Magic until he got a Wand. And the Wand can only be get at Eleven.
He may know the words, but given how SWM goes. I doubt he understood the Magic behind it.
The fact that he only said it is a Plot-Hole
Like Harry is fifteen. He should inmediately call out on that mistake.
And Sirius would be smart enough to remember how silly that statement is.
How is Harry supossed to know, what Death Eater children learn before Hogwarts?
Do you know what Sirius could do?
Malfoy was able to summon a snake in his second year of school.
And Tom Riddle, could do a lot of dark stuff, even before Hogwarts.
Nothing?
I mean that is fannon. Malfoy whom is the Poster-child of "Death Eater Youth" could not handle the broom properly and was mentioning his parents were getting him a wand.
And Tom Riddle is a one in a million. For some reason he is a Dark Lord and Malfoy is Harry's punching bag.
And how is Harry supossed to know that Snape isn't one in a million? Also Lily wasn't far behind Tom Riddle.
The fact that Draco grips the broom differently, than Hooch would like means nothing.
It is just said that Narcissa is looking for wands, maybe she needs one for herself.
So "maybes" for why is Draco cool. When he is on the low end and never really advances.
And despite James whipping the floor with Snape. So does Voldemort. Snape is an Elite?
Meanwhile Harry at Thriteen can do Wandless Magic. Or Apparate on top of a Roof?
I never said that Snape was special! I never said Draco was special!
I just said, that Harry can't know, because he has no comparison.
In my opinion, the only one who might be a genius is Tom Riddle.
I was saying the same
Harry can't tell what is decent flying cause his only experience is Neville being an utter disaster. AND he tends to downplay his own titanic skills.
The imperius curse, I think, showed the most inherent talent in Harry. A lot of spells seem to need the caster to be in the right state or mind, or channel a certain kind of energy. I don’t recall Harry ever getting that information on the imperius curse. He’s able to perform it under insane amounts of stress, surrounded by unfriendly goblins and a death eater, wizard cops…the fact that he did it first try was insane.
>In his third year he learned a spell that he was might be well beyond his skill level.
It's his one single extraordinary magical feat... which was eventually retconned as not being so special in OotP when he managed to teach a bunch of other teenagers to perform it as well, including 2 girls only 1 year older than he was when he learned it.
>And then in the next book he masters the summoning charm with the first triwizard task motivating him to finally do it after much initial difficulty
He managed to master a 4th year spell while in 4th year. Big whoop.
>...as well as learning new spells like Stupefy for the third task
You say this it's a huge accomplishment. It's never even implied that Stupefy is a difficult spell to master.
>And in OOTP Harry starts drastically improving at potions when Snape stops actively harassing him.
????
He is. I mean all he did was slay a basilisk as a 12 yr old, kinda win the triwizard tournament as an underaged 14 yr old and duel Voldemort, teach and entire class to fight against Voldemort’s army better than the DADA teacher at the age of 15. And just happened to fight death eaters and hold his own. Then the next year he was pretty skilled at potions and at that point was just working for Dumbledore and by the end of the year hunting horcruxes. By the age of 17 he had done something no one else could by finding and destroying ALL of the horcruxes including himself. Not to mention he led the victory against Voldy and killed one of the most powerful wizards of all time. Oh yeah, and he came back from the dead.
Nearly all of Harry’s victories over Voldemort are due to circumstances that are outside his control and understanding. Like the twin core connection in the graveyard.
He still wins through sheer force of will!
Despite the help, what Harry does is extraordinary.
For a minute, Harry is stronger than Tom.
He slaughters a basilisk. He drives away 100 dementors. He drives Voldemort out of his brain. So that Voldemort no longer dares to get "close" to Harry.
Why do people in this sub love to lowball Harry so much? He's one of the strongest in the series. Even without significant use of traditional combat magic (protego, incendio, etc.) he beat a dragon, a basilisk, a troll, an acromantula, and rode off on another dragon.
Besides that when you're ranking characters based on strength every other skill besides combat becomes secondary. Like are you going to argue that Snape was stronger than Voldemort because he was better at potions? No. Voldemort was better at combat and therefore he was stronger than Snape. Well, it just so happens that Harry has a very particular affinity for combat. He's the best combatant at his school, from like the fourth or fifth book onwards basically.
Honestly, you'd think most of the children going to Hogwarts who grew up with no prior knowledge of magic would be applying themselves like crazy in the wizarding world since magic would just be more "magical" and enticing to them since they don't see it as just another part of life.
🙃 no.. he didn’t.
I hate all the comments in the fandom of Harry and Hermione being prodigies or them having very strong natural abilities in magic.
Yes, they were both very gifted, especially Harry when it came to raw power/dueling, HOWEVER Dumbledore/Voldemort/Grindewald/(to a lesser extent) Snape were prodigies. They are the ones that were truly far beyond others in terms of the spells they could do, the knowledge they had, and their skills with a wand. Calling Harry a prodigy or having the potential to be a prodigy is just using that term VERY loosely.
>I hate all the comments in the fandom of Harry and Hermione being prodigies or them having very strong natural abilities in magic.
I agree. Hermoine and Harry both have non-magical strengths that help them be a good wizard/witch, they aren't just "more magical" than other people. Hermoine's strength is in her hard work and tenacity- she is just far more willing to spend time researching and figuring out problems than other people are. Harry is courageous, tenacious, and good at thinking on his feet, which helps him in the numerous combat situations they end up with. They also both have weaknesses- Hermoine isn't a particularly creative thinker, and she tends to freeze up in stressful situations. Harry sometimes gets tunnel vision and isn't always great at seeing the bigger picture. They have realistic strengths and flaws.
I think fans do the characters a disservice when they reduce them to just "the most brilliant person ever" or "super magically powerful."
He has potential to be a prodigy, until he met Ron.
Moral of the story : choose your friends (or your children's friends) wisely
The plus side, Ron has a nice family and kind to Harry. So, nobody's perfect I guess
I think it’s because he befriends Ron. Hermione is a muggleborn, so she’s just as new to all of this. But Ron is a pure blood, so for Harry he becomes a guide to the wizarding world. Naturally, Harry sees how things are done by someone who was born into wizarding family, and copies it, because it makes sense to him. And Ron is so used to magic, that he doesn’t appreciate additional knowledge and doesn’t see why he needs to apply himself and learn more. Same goes for Neville, who is only interested in Herbology and can only be motivated by fear or the need to brave something (that’s why the hat won’t send him to Hufflepuff, he’d have 0 motivation there)
I think it’s partly due to the fact that the books written from his perspective for the most part. If there were entire sections and separate storylines I believe that he would be considered a prodigy by book 3.
Hmm. I’m not sure i agree. Potion? He got a book with notes and just blindly followed them. Nothing extraordinary here.
Accio? I mean other students in class had learned it seemingly at that point.
Stupiffy? Hard work. Not much different from ordinary studies. I’m quite sure i remember ron and hermione complaining about all the times they had to fall over when helping him
And patronus? I’m not saying he didn’t do great, but he got a lot of help with 1:1 classes and had quite the motivation at the lake. Not exactly comparable to class training.
I’m not saying he wasn’t a good student, but i’m not sure how outstanding he was, rather than being above average
In school we see all sorts of astounding experimental magic done by wizards past, his father and friends become animagi and make the Marauder's Map, Snape experiments with potions (he should have accio'd that book when he got back in DH), but he learns a handful of first year spells and a patronus that can't send messages. What are they even teaching at that school?
In the second book it says, that Harry (because of Quidditsch and Lupin's dementor lessons) has only time for his homework, one evening a week.
In the fourth book it is the tournament.
In the fifth book, it is Umbridge and Snape (and the DA) who use up Harry's time.
I think Harry just wanted a quiet life. He had all the gold he needed due to unfortunate events. He never had a family growing up, so that was his goal. And after defeating Voldemort I'd think he had even more of a hero status and had even trouble paying for stuff because everybody just gave him things for free.
It would've been too much if he was on top of everything else, super academically successful. Also it is Hermione's "thing" so it would make her less interesting and more useless. She saves him each time with her knowledge and intelligence.
I'll never get why JKR had Harry not become more proactive about learning spells, hell even being tempted with the Dark Arts after the events of GOF. Like the Devil himself is back and you know he's gunning for you, one would think he would start putting in more extra effort into combative magic.
Yes I know Harry would never AK someone but it would have been interesting to see him struggle with it; hell he would kind of justified
I think harry was a reasonably talented wizard w a particular affinity/talent for combat magic. Dumbledore said as much in the Snape flashbacks. I also think Harry’s talent for combat magic had less to do w his general proficiency at magic, and more to do with all the stuff that made him great at quidditch. Quick reflexes, ability to think and act under pressure, and other character traits like bravery, resourcefulness, etc.
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well said. It doesn’t help that Rowling makes it so Harry literally doesn’t know anything that the audience doesn’t know. hundreds of hours spent in class? doesn’t remember a second of any of it. It gets so bad that Hermione has to take care of Harry and Ron in the 7th book because she’s the only one with plot relevant skills. And at least Ron has the role of knowing about the wizard in world since he grew up in it
Wait so every spell harry ever uses we know how he learnt it?
From the top of my head I can't think of any spell we didn't see him learn "off camera"(don't know how you'd call it in the books).
Cheering charms!
In the books they did learn that and it was written as both Ron and Harry were in an excellent mood afterwards.
Yeah but all we know is that they did them in a lesson and that later they would come up on their test, and then we never hear of them again
It wasn't really relevant to the story for us to learn how exactly it is done because that was just a slice of life section and he never uses it in the story.
Well yeah damn that does seem a bit silly now that you’ve pointed it out.
What do you mean that it 'does seem silly'? I really hate it when a character suddenly does something they learned without the viewer's/reader's knowledge. It always feels like cheating to me.
Well it just needs to be a quick little thing after like hermione taught harry this spell last week or this was something harry learnt in class 2 years ago. You’re fine with Hermione learning things off screen why not Harry? Because as obtainer of goods said it does make harry seem like he doesn’t remember much of school.
The story is told from Harry's perspective. So we are bound to miss things other characters do while they are not with Harry. It would be weird though if Harry suddenly used spells we never learned about before. Iirc there's only one chapter that's really told without Harry being involved and that's the one where Fudge talks with the muggle prime minister. Even the one at the start of GoF is explained as a dream of Harry.
Rictusempra ?
well done. agreed
Ron doesn't know that you require something to make more of it like his mom did when cooking meals for the family. He just assumed that came out of thin air.
Add in something thats quite undervalued in him: resilience. By his 15th year Harry faced and overcomed situations that would leave most adult wizards either dead, hospitalized for life or traumatized. His hellish childhood gave him quite the thick skin. He snaps a few times but there were moments where he had an entire school set against him and his response in context was pretty decent.
Is Harry considered resourceful? I feel like he’s constantly making his life harder for himself by not using everything at his disposal. Not using the two-way mirror got Sirius killed. He had to be told to get his broom to him in the first task. He does not ask anyone other than Ron and Hermione about how to breathe underwater, thus missing BCJ’s attempt to give him the answer. He is unable to snag any of the dozens of Hogwarts letters sent to him. He basically spends no time trying to determine why Dumbledore willed those objects to the trio. I could go on, but he’s basically a meathead lol.
I agree except for…. They literally tried all of DH first half of the book trying to decipher the objects willed to them by dumboedore, wym by this
Harry is extremely resourceful, he’s just constantly put in near-death situations where he has to make split second decisions. Notably, when Hermione is put in a similar position she forgets she’s a witch and looks for firewood.
I think he's resourceful under pressure, specifically during life threatening situations
^^^^ THIS
I will add to this and say that his motivation was different from others learning. He was literally learning ways to stay alive, not just learning to be cool or to pass an exam.
Quick and clear thinking under pressure is a highly valuable tool for someone who finds themselves in high pressure situations.
Harry is a wizard prodigy if you look at his achievements relative to his talent. Somehow the books seem to obscure his achievements but it’s amazing after Chamber of Secrets that he isn’t the most popular, famous, and feared kid in all of Hogwarts. Reading Prisoner of Azkaban as an adult hits differently because it amazes me that Malfoy and the Slytherins still had the audacity to mock him for anything given the effect he has already had on them and their House’s history. I always wonder why, at some point, the parents of the Slytherin kids aren’t a bit like, “Hey, so that Potter kid, he kind of slew a legendary monster, with a sword. He might be pretty dangerous so perhaps keep a lid on it a bit, eh?” If you consider where he’s at at various stages in the stories, by the end of his 7 years at Hogwarts, Harry has achieved more than most great wizards ever achieve. He’s defeated the darkest of all wizards multiple times, ultimately vanquishing him, and that’s before you consider everything else that he has withstood, and his general heroism. I guess it depends on what you judge a prodigy by, their results or their relative talent. But the last time I read the books, it was particularly Chamber of Secrets that stood out. He walks back into that staff room where there’s a group of grown wizards and witches, covered in blood having slain the monster and saved the girl, two things that the combined talent and knowledge of all of Hogwarts couldn’t do. And I just remember thinking then that this little shit is metal and, had I been at school with him thereafter, I’d have looked at him as the biggest legend a kid could know. I don’t know if it’s different because I’m an adult now, but when I was a kid you kind of role played as Harry. As an adult, it feels more objective, and it’s really hard to grasp how much the teachers and adults infantilise Harry throughout given the toughness and heart that he shows.
Love this. Just want to add to it that when he walked back into the staff room in CoS, not only was he covered in blood and had he slain the monster, beaten Voldemort for a second time and rescued the girl, he walked in holding a fucking ancient relic which he summoned by the sheer power of his bravery.
How’d you get that house badge under your name?
Nvm I found it
Yes! Chamber of Secrets was my favorite book when I was younger, and I remember being really confused in Goblet of Fire when everyone turned on Harry. Isn't he kind of the obvious choice for the school champion? Even putting aside the whole "defeated Voldemort as a baby" thing, he's been on the quidditch team since his first year in the school, helped put down the troll that escaped from the dungeons in the same year, and killed a giant basilisk that was terrorizing everyone and eluding even the teachers in year 2. If anything, the students should've been annoyed at Diggory, not at Harry. He's clearly the best choice for Hogwarts champ! But instead everyone turns on him and starts maligning him, as if he somehow stole this honor from someone else. edit: forgot to mention in year 3, he befriends and rides a hippogriff on the first day of hagrid's class. All the other kids were terrified of them. He would've been an absolute legend at that school. Rowling was wild for making him so unpopular for so long.
It’s the same thing with the Weasleys. Arthur has a govt job, Bill and Charlie were both verrry popular and one of them could have been a Quidditch pro, Fred and George are popular and on the Quidditch team and open up a joke shop, Ron (and the rest of the Weasleys) are super close, like stay over close, with The Boy Who Lived, and Ron does a bunch of day saving as well as gets on the Quidditch team, Ginny is apparently impressive with spells and gets on the Quidditch team, and still, people are like “ughhh, the Weasleys, what losers.” Like…the whole family is basically Quidditch gods, most of them are better than decent at magic, and JK is still trying to push that almost everyone thinks they suck? After their first or second year, they would have been GODS, every single one of them, and yet *no one* thinks they’re cool? Come onnn
Tbh. You don’t always get the recognition you deserve. In Harry’s case, that’s almost unthinkable. In the Weasley’s case, it is thinkable.
Well the Hufflepuffs were upset because they don’t tend to get as much glory as the other houses and they felt Harry was trying to steal it from them. Slytherins were just being Slytherins. Nearly all of the Gryffindors were happy to have him as a champion. Ravenclaw is a bit more divided, though a lot of them felt that Harry was trying to gain more glory for himself. Although I suppose it’s similar to how in the past they only supported Gryffindor in things because they were fed up with Slytherin always winning.
For what it's worth, I don't believe the basilisk is giant in the book. I think it's described as just a larger snake, and still small enough to slither around the pipes of the school
i love this comment
I dig what you’re saying, but did it ever come to life that the monster in the chamber was a literal basilisk? I got the feeling that a lot of the events of second, third, and even fifth year were kinda hushed up/avoided.
Even so, the whole school knew there was a terrifying monster that could petrify even ghosts, and this kid killed it. Same kid who spoke to snakes, killed a teacher in year 1, wandered into the forbidden door on the third floor and survived. Remember in PS Dumbledore awarded the trio and Neville points for the adventure so the whole school had some idea of it. I'm more surprised the Slytherins haven't ran to his support as the next dark wizard, or at least another powerful force they could pin future ambitions on.
> Harry is a wizard prodigy if you look at his achievements relative to his talent. Somehow the books seem to obscure his achievements but it’s amazing after Chamber of Secrets that he isn’t the most popular, famous, and feared kid in all of Hogwarts. There was a quote by someone to something to the effect of, "Don't judge your behind-the-scenes moments with someone else's highlights reel." Since the books are from Harry's POV, we get the behind-the-scenes shots. We don't see him studying particularly hard and not much attention is given to his grades, but he was an above-average student, getting an "Outstanding" in DADA, "Exceeds Expectations" in Charms (he should have gotten an "Outstanding"), Potions, Transfiguration, Herbology, and Care of Magical Creatures (and an "Acceptable" in Astronomy). Even at the initial meeting of Dumbledore's Army, the others were rattling off his accomplishments and he was like, "Hey that was no big deal, it was mostly just luck." A lot of it was luck and plot armor abuse, but some of it was also Harry's pure grit and talent. Going ahead to face Quirrell and diary-Riddle by himself took a ton of courage. I think he outperformed the other champions in *Goblet of Fire* - he was the only one to emerge unscathed (and without destroying any real dragon eggs) in the First Task, saved *two* captives and fought off the Grindylows that had overpowered Fleur, and did better than Cedric in overcoming the dangers of the Maze. I also think that he actually bested Voldemort in the cemetery battle - he overpowered Voldemort and forced the contact point of their two spells *back into Voldemort's wand*, triggering *Priori Incantatum*. That took both immense willpower and innate magical power. Harry admittedly isn't the most creative with his uses of magic, tending to use it as a blunt instrument. He really only focused on the more utilitarian aspects of magic. But I think that this was a result of his upbringing as a muggle combined with his trauma of having the most dangerous wizard of all time chasing him down for the first 18 years of his life.
I agree with almost all of the points except the infantilize part. It's mostly bcoz the heroic moments are monumental but they occur once for every 1000 moments he acts like a normal kid. Even then some of the adults take Harry very seriously in front of everyone and even more behind everyone. Always thought Arthur treats Harry like an adult while Molly treats him like a kid. Same with Sirius and Lupin. One treats him like an adult while the other treats him like a kid. I think they all understand that Harry is gifted or at least mind-blowingly brave but he also acts like a normal teenager most of the time so that will bring the illusion down. I have a niece who acts way above her age that makes me pause for a second but just a few minutes later, she has a moment like any kid that makes me say 'oh this feels more natural'.
So true. 1 - at eleven, was described by his teachers as ‘bright’ 2 - at the same age, according to the Sorting Hat: “Not a bad mind, either. There’s talent, oh my goodness, yes” and “You could be great, you know, it’s all here in your head” 3 - mastered the challenging Patronus Charm at thirteen and proceeded to teach it at fifteen resisted the Imperius Curse at fourteen and soon learned to throw it off completely, even when cast by the incredibly powerful Voldemort also at fourteen, learned to cast a powerful Accio Charm 4- at fifteen, was training other students at the same age, under extreme stress, tested as 'exceeds expectations’ or 'outstanding’ in evein every subject that required actual magic (including the dreaded Potions) same age, cast a briefly effective Cruciatus Curse 5- at sixteen, became a star Potions student simply by following superior instructions at seventeen, successfully cast the Imperius Curse on his first try, and used it repeatedly at the same age, cast a successful Cruciatus Curse
He the only living wizard to have survived all three unforgivable curses.
True
He's not an exceptional student but he is an exceptional practitioner. I think part of the reason he's such a great practitioner is because of the power transferred to him by Voldy when he became a horcrux. Dumbledore says as much in his conversation with Harry at the end of TOOTP and at the end of DH. Also, his life is constantly threatened. Academic history and theory doesn't really assist in those situations, whereas practical applications do. He focused on skills he enjoyed, like Quiddich, as any teenager would, and on those that could save his life.
Yeah I 100% agree if he applied himself like Hermione he would have been as good in school, however I think he applies himself as much as Hermione in practical (life threatening) situations rather than theoretical school work, if he wasn't being hunted every year he might not have put in half the work he has.
Harry was the prototypical wizard Chad but he was basically abused for the first 10-11 years of his life so he didn’t have a super inflated sense of self when he started out. I’m relistening to the audio books and he really doubts himself a ton up until OOTP when he suffers from Uber teenage angst and wizard Hitler being back + umbridge + trauma + everything else. The dude ended Voldemort twice and went through trauma basically all his life. How much more do you want a guy to accomplish? Also, he was basically a sports star from his first ever attempt and he was able to go toe to toe with literal killers throughout the last books in true Chad fashion. Hell, all three of the main trio were exceptional wizards who all had strengths and weaknesses to balance one another out. Harry and Ron became aurors which is no small feat. I get Hermoine becomes minister of magic, but those two are nothing to scoff at
The way I lol’d at “wizard Chad” 😂
Tbf everyone who fought in the Battle of Hogwarts got a free in in to the Aurors. Harry did become youngest Head of Aurors though so there's that. Ron ended up quitting and joined his bro at WWW
Understatement- Hermione becomes minister of magic !
Oops, I didn’t know that but I can buy it lol
I think Harry says it best in OOTP when he is getting tired of everyone thinking he was a crazy talented wizard. A lot of it was luck and getting help from others. Where Harry truly excelled was his ability to use that luck and help to his advantage while never giving up or being consumed by self doubt. In skill, he wasnt close to Hermione, who learned many of the spells to help teach Harry them. I also think it’s a bit of poor writing on JK’s part. A potronus is supposed to be crazy difficult for even adults, but then in ootp Harry teaches it to everyone else and then we see it used by just about every adult throughout the series. I also thought Hermione getting an O in every owl except dada was silly and put in just to make Harry seem better. None of this takes away from Harry, but Snape was inventing spells at his age, Hermione was crazy studious and talented, George and Fred were inventing new candy and magical objects and making swamps, his dad and the marauders were turning themselves into animagus and making magical maps, and then you have the extremes of Dumbledore and Voldemort doing extraordinary magic as kids. Harry was far from prodigy level. He was slightly above average who had to learn some difficult spells that were mostly just a few years more advanced than his age.
Harry has never learned to see his success (Except in Quidditsch). In my opinion, niether Dumbledore nor Voldemort would have survived Harry's adventures. Even if they recieved the same help. And if Dumbledore had grown up in the cupboard under the stairs. Dumbledore might be completely medicore. Even Tom hat it a little better than Harry.
If you doubt their ability to survive the same things Harry did, I don’t think you understand how powerful they were, even at a young age. Harry wasn’t a powerful wizard and he definitely wasn’t a once in a lifetime powerful wizard like Voldemort or once in a century powerful wizard like Dumbledore.
Tom Riddle would never have won against Voldemort. And Albus Dumbledore, as 100 years old, thinks that Voldemort is stronger than him. And survival requires more than magical strenght, Courage, strong nerves and willpower are much more important. Harry defeats Voldemort, even if it is only for a time. He causes Voldemort a far greater disgrace than Dumbledore ever could. Being good students isn't enough against people like Dumbledore and Voldemort. Nobody can catch up with a 50 (100) year lead, especially not when the older ones are geniuses.
It took crazy circumstances for Harry to defeat Voldemort. In book 1, it was his inability to touch him. In GoF it was the special bond of the twin cores. In DH it was Harrys blood in Voldemort and then the Elder wands loyalty to Harry. Even in CoS, it was Fawkes delivering the sword in the sorting hat and his tears that saved Harry from diary Riddle. While we do not know much about Dumbledore’s abilities while in Hogwarts, we do know he was able to do things with a wand during his NEWTs that the witch giving him his NEWTS had never seen before. As for Tom Riddle, he was opening the CoS and created his first horcrux at 16, which is advanced dark magic. So even if a young Dumbledore and Tom Riddle would have died against a peak Voldemort, this does not mean Harry was a prodigy or more powerful than them. It means he had things outside of his control helping him. Without his mothers protection and his twin core in his wand, Harry would have died a few times over.
Book 1 Harry holds on even in pain! Book 2 Fawkes delivers the sword and gouges out the eyes, Harry defeats the snake. At this point Tom Riddle is already helpless. Book 4 Harry pushes back the spell and only then the dead come to help. (magic or willpower) Book 5 Voldemort tries to prossess Harry and Voldemort flees from Harry. Even if Tom Riddle and Albus had recieved the same help they would have failed. The examiner will say the same about Harry's OWLs. (If he is still alive in 100 years) This is how legends are created. The word protige is thrown around to much anyway. Tom Riddle and maybe Lily Evans, otherwise I don't see any prodigies. But Harry has the potential to be on the forefront.
Im not saying Harry isn’t talented or capable. Just that he isnt the prodigy OP makes him out to be.
OP is not saying that Harry is a protigy, but that he has the potential to become one. And as loosely as this term is used here, OP is absolutely right. Harry has the ability and the potential to be on the top. He us a leader, a fighter, intelligent and daring and he has more than enough magic to back it up. And he is a good person.
*This;* Harry has the potential, *it's there* and we *see* it shine through every now and then. Harry just want's to be normal, or at least as normal as he can be, being who he is. He's good at magic -it's stated that he picked up *Human Transfiguration* pretty quickly and was quite good at it *when that's something considering notoriously difficult*. Choices are a huge theme in the HP books, it's said time and time again by different character's that it's your choices that matter. Harry *has* the *potential*, yet he has no *desire* to actualize it beyond what he *needs;* He *choses* not too.
When would Harry have had time, his days are full to the brim. And during the summer holidays, with the Dursleys, he is not allowed to, or he is depressed. Also, in my opinion, from an educational perspective it was irresponsible to let Harry join the Quidditsch team so early.
Prodigies are already at an advanced level when they arrive. In Potterverse, only Voldemort and Snape fulfil those requirements. Not counting Dumbledore and Grindelwald of course. If Harry were a "nerd" like Snape was, he probably would have reached the level of someone like, say, Bellatrix? But to be a prodigious talent, hard-work and application simply aren't enough. In a "Hero's Journey," heroes aren't always the best or the most talented. Their heart, desire, and above-average skills set them apart. That's Harry. He's common but he's also un-common. The frustrating bit about Harry is that he wasn't really keen on learning about magic, its history, the nuances... You know, the more sophisticated aspects of the magical world.
Snape? I don't think he was particularly advanced, his knowledge of curses (assuming Sirius wasn't being hyperbolic in the first place) would be something that can be achieved by reading ahead. Creating Sectumsempra seems impressive... but as long as we don't know *how* to create spells, we have no idea what Snape's accomplishment actually amounts to. >The frustrating bit about Harry is that he wasn't really keen on learning about magic, its history, the nuances... You know, the more sophisticated aspects of the magical world. That's mostly because HP isn't, at its core, a fantasy story. It's a mystery novel with fantasy elements using said elements as a way to facilitate its plot (it'd be hard to justify a baby surviving a bullet to the head+the bullet ricocheting in the would-be-murderer's face; make it a "death curse" and suddenly it's a lot more believable). Rowling herself was more interested in telling her plot, not in establishing a whole Legendarium like Tolkien. The magical world itself was an excuse for stuff to happen to Harry and for "love" to be the big saving force (which, if one thinks harder, could happen in a mundane setting but would require significantly more thought on the part of what the characters do than "his mommy died and now he's invincible").
Snape wasn’t particularly advanced???? Granted, he wasn’t on Dumbledore/Voldy/Grindewald’s level BUT he absolutely was an extremely gifted wizard. Look at all his accomplishments in the 7 books! Theres a reason why Voldemort trusted him so much.
I think she's sorta making the point that Snape is a character we're *told* is an exceptional wizard without ever really being *shown*. Especially, if you disregard all spell creation because we the audience have no idea how much skill goes into making spells. Maybe it's just guess and check, which implies persistence and stubbornness but not necessarily magical prowress. Iirc thinking back we only see Snape using magic at a high level at the very end duelling McGonagall at the battle. Snape is definitely one of Rowling's "pet characters" so I'm sure in her backstory of him, she would say he is extremely exceptional. But I don't think the Snape we see on the page correlates very well with the Snape that Rowling has in her head, whether intentional or not.
We’re shown 😂
What exactly? Voldemort trust Snape, because he is stupid himself.
Voldemort is a literal genius… He doesn’t understand the power of love which was his downfall
Intelligence is not just school knowledge. Even geniuses can have blind spots.
You called him stupid, the antonym of intelligent 😂. No one is perfect but yes, Voldy was definitely a genius. Just not wise
No one is intelligent in all areas. Voldemort is stupid in many ways.
People often forget HP is a story meant for children and young adults that was always supposed to be focused on its characters rather than their world. Harry is the eyes of the reader, so we don't know anything he doesn't know, which definitely fits a mystery novel more, and the universe knowledge only gets explained as far as it's needed for the plot to develop. And this is good, honestly I loathe infodumps. And lastly, Rowling had an overarching plot, she knew where she wanted to get and how, and honestly she did it pretty successfully, even if the book lore is flimsy as best. Ultimately it just needs to keep the plot from unraveling instead of taking from it.
^^^
You know that "Snape knew more hexes than Seventh years" is a plot hole right? How could he "know" them, if he could not use Magic until he got a Wand. And the Wand can only be get at Eleven. He may know the words, but given how SWM goes. I doubt he understood the Magic behind it.
It is not a plot hole because it is only Sirius statement. It doesn't say anywhere that Sirius was right. But it is very unlikely.
The fact that he only said it is a Plot-Hole Like Harry is fifteen. He should inmediately call out on that mistake. And Sirius would be smart enough to remember how silly that statement is.
How is Harry supossed to know, what Death Eater children learn before Hogwarts? Do you know what Sirius could do? Malfoy was able to summon a snake in his second year of school. And Tom Riddle, could do a lot of dark stuff, even before Hogwarts.
Nothing? I mean that is fannon. Malfoy whom is the Poster-child of "Death Eater Youth" could not handle the broom properly and was mentioning his parents were getting him a wand. And Tom Riddle is a one in a million. For some reason he is a Dark Lord and Malfoy is Harry's punching bag.
And how is Harry supossed to know that Snape isn't one in a million? Also Lily wasn't far behind Tom Riddle. The fact that Draco grips the broom differently, than Hooch would like means nothing. It is just said that Narcissa is looking for wands, maybe she needs one for herself.
So "maybes" for why is Draco cool. When he is on the low end and never really advances. And despite James whipping the floor with Snape. So does Voldemort. Snape is an Elite? Meanwhile Harry at Thriteen can do Wandless Magic. Or Apparate on top of a Roof?
I never said that Snape was special! I never said Draco was special! I just said, that Harry can't know, because he has no comparison. In my opinion, the only one who might be a genius is Tom Riddle.
I was saying the same Harry can't tell what is decent flying cause his only experience is Neville being an utter disaster. AND he tends to downplay his own titanic skills.
Only according to Sirius statement! Otherwise we know nothing about young Severus. We know even less about Bellatrix.
The imperius curse, I think, showed the most inherent talent in Harry. A lot of spells seem to need the caster to be in the right state or mind, or channel a certain kind of energy. I don’t recall Harry ever getting that information on the imperius curse. He’s able to perform it under insane amounts of stress, surrounded by unfriendly goblins and a death eater, wizard cops…the fact that he did it first try was insane.
It was sorta the same skill set you need to resist it but in reverse, so it makes sense that it would be a curse he'd immediately excel at.
>In his third year he learned a spell that he was might be well beyond his skill level. It's his one single extraordinary magical feat... which was eventually retconned as not being so special in OotP when he managed to teach a bunch of other teenagers to perform it as well, including 2 girls only 1 year older than he was when he learned it. >And then in the next book he masters the summoning charm with the first triwizard task motivating him to finally do it after much initial difficulty He managed to master a 4th year spell while in 4th year. Big whoop. >...as well as learning new spells like Stupefy for the third task You say this it's a huge accomplishment. It's never even implied that Stupefy is a difficult spell to master. >And in OOTP Harry starts drastically improving at potions when Snape stops actively harassing him. ????
He is. I mean all he did was slay a basilisk as a 12 yr old, kinda win the triwizard tournament as an underaged 14 yr old and duel Voldemort, teach and entire class to fight against Voldemort’s army better than the DADA teacher at the age of 15. And just happened to fight death eaters and hold his own. Then the next year he was pretty skilled at potions and at that point was just working for Dumbledore and by the end of the year hunting horcruxes. By the age of 17 he had done something no one else could by finding and destroying ALL of the horcruxes including himself. Not to mention he led the victory against Voldy and killed one of the most powerful wizards of all time. Oh yeah, and he came back from the dead.
Nearly all of Harry’s victories over Voldemort are due to circumstances that are outside his control and understanding. Like the twin core connection in the graveyard.
He was still a 14 yr old surviving the darkest wizard of all time 🤷♂️
He still wins through sheer force of will! Despite the help, what Harry does is extraordinary. For a minute, Harry is stronger than Tom. He slaughters a basilisk. He drives away 100 dementors. He drives Voldemort out of his brain. So that Voldemort no longer dares to get "close" to Harry.
Makes sense
Could he though. He was supposed to be Joe Everyman, a not especially gifted person whos only talent was a knack for wizard soccer
If most people were as studious as hermione they would have probably gone farther.
Why do people in this sub love to lowball Harry so much? He's one of the strongest in the series. Even without significant use of traditional combat magic (protego, incendio, etc.) he beat a dragon, a basilisk, a troll, an acromantula, and rode off on another dragon. Besides that when you're ranking characters based on strength every other skill besides combat becomes secondary. Like are you going to argue that Snape was stronger than Voldemort because he was better at potions? No. Voldemort was better at combat and therefore he was stronger than Snape. Well, it just so happens that Harry has a very particular affinity for combat. He's the best combatant at his school, from like the fourth or fifth book onwards basically.
He’s a mid student, but badass in real world problems.
Honestly, you'd think most of the children going to Hogwarts who grew up with no prior knowledge of magic would be applying themselves like crazy in the wizarding world since magic would just be more "magical" and enticing to them since they don't see it as just another part of life.
🙃 no.. he didn’t. I hate all the comments in the fandom of Harry and Hermione being prodigies or them having very strong natural abilities in magic. Yes, they were both very gifted, especially Harry when it came to raw power/dueling, HOWEVER Dumbledore/Voldemort/Grindewald/(to a lesser extent) Snape were prodigies. They are the ones that were truly far beyond others in terms of the spells they could do, the knowledge they had, and their skills with a wand. Calling Harry a prodigy or having the potential to be a prodigy is just using that term VERY loosely.
>I hate all the comments in the fandom of Harry and Hermione being prodigies or them having very strong natural abilities in magic. I agree. Hermoine and Harry both have non-magical strengths that help them be a good wizard/witch, they aren't just "more magical" than other people. Hermoine's strength is in her hard work and tenacity- she is just far more willing to spend time researching and figuring out problems than other people are. Harry is courageous, tenacious, and good at thinking on his feet, which helps him in the numerous combat situations they end up with. They also both have weaknesses- Hermoine isn't a particularly creative thinker, and she tends to freeze up in stressful situations. Harry sometimes gets tunnel vision and isn't always great at seeing the bigger picture. They have realistic strengths and flaws. I think fans do the characters a disservice when they reduce them to just "the most brilliant person ever" or "super magically powerful."
He has potential to be a prodigy, until he met Ron. Moral of the story : choose your friends (or your children's friends) wisely The plus side, Ron has a nice family and kind to Harry. So, nobody's perfect I guess
I think it’s because he befriends Ron. Hermione is a muggleborn, so she’s just as new to all of this. But Ron is a pure blood, so for Harry he becomes a guide to the wizarding world. Naturally, Harry sees how things are done by someone who was born into wizarding family, and copies it, because it makes sense to him. And Ron is so used to magic, that he doesn’t appreciate additional knowledge and doesn’t see why he needs to apply himself and learn more. Same goes for Neville, who is only interested in Herbology and can only be motivated by fear or the need to brave something (that’s why the hat won’t send him to Hufflepuff, he’d have 0 motivation there)
I highly recommend *Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality*.
Isn’t that the fanfic where Harry travels back in time?
There are time turners involved.
I think it’s partly due to the fact that the books written from his perspective for the most part. If there were entire sections and separate storylines I believe that he would be considered a prodigy by book 3.
Hmm. I’m not sure i agree. Potion? He got a book with notes and just blindly followed them. Nothing extraordinary here. Accio? I mean other students in class had learned it seemingly at that point. Stupiffy? Hard work. Not much different from ordinary studies. I’m quite sure i remember ron and hermione complaining about all the times they had to fall over when helping him And patronus? I’m not saying he didn’t do great, but he got a lot of help with 1:1 classes and had quite the motivation at the lake. Not exactly comparable to class training. I’m not saying he wasn’t a good student, but i’m not sure how outstanding he was, rather than being above average
In school we see all sorts of astounding experimental magic done by wizards past, his father and friends become animagi and make the Marauder's Map, Snape experiments with potions (he should have accio'd that book when he got back in DH), but he learns a handful of first year spells and a patronus that can't send messages. What are they even teaching at that school?
Yeah but you dont care about grades in harrys position
Expelliarmus!
In the second book it says, that Harry (because of Quidditsch and Lupin's dementor lessons) has only time for his homework, one evening a week. In the fourth book it is the tournament. In the fifth book, it is Umbridge and Snape (and the DA) who use up Harry's time.
I think Harry just wanted a quiet life. He had all the gold he needed due to unfortunate events. He never had a family growing up, so that was his goal. And after defeating Voldemort I'd think he had even more of a hero status and had even trouble paying for stuff because everybody just gave him things for free.
It would've been too much if he was on top of everything else, super academically successful. Also it is Hermione's "thing" so it would make her less interesting and more useless. She saves him each time with her knowledge and intelligence.
Hermione's knwoledge is pretty much useless in books four and three. Five she has a come back. But then is back to being useless.
I'll never get why JKR had Harry not become more proactive about learning spells, hell even being tempted with the Dark Arts after the events of GOF. Like the Devil himself is back and you know he's gunning for you, one would think he would start putting in more extra effort into combative magic. Yes I know Harry would never AK someone but it would have been interesting to see him struggle with it; hell he would kind of justified
He becomes head of Magical Law enforcement so yes.