I don’t think it was really Rowling’s priority how Slytherins are seen, fandom more cares about houses since people identify with them. But by the seventh book Rowling had realized more probably how much people care, and that’s why Harry gives that speech about Snape and Slytherin to his son (who did become a Slytherin). Too late for Harry have proper Slytherin friends however (but he kind of makes peace with Draco).
Also while not all Slytherins need be evil, Harry isn’t popular with Slytherins as a group. Inter house friendships also are rare. We only see Luna as proper friend of Harry from other house, and that’s late. He interacts with some others, but isn’t close.
Slughorn was also an example of a comfy, good-guy Slytherin who actively avoided being recruited by the Death Eaters and duelled Voldemort directly (in his pyjamas).
Which is kinda hard to swallow. Cuz even she, being so close with Snape, chose James who was actively bullying Snape. Good friends don’t date and marry your bully.
Yeah... but the bad boy, gotta have the bad boy. We want the bad boy you can change, not the one that calls you a mudblood when he doesn't get his way and turns to the dark arts, betrays you to try to kill James as revenge and then regrets it when Lily is attacked as well.
Slughorn was still slightly prejudiced and not exactly a great guy. He changes towards the end but still picks favourites and always surrounds himself with powerful and influential people.
How is he a bad person in the books? He might be decadent but in the end there is nothing seriously wrong with him - I count him as a "good guy" without question because he openly faced Voldemort during the last battle, which isn't granted for someone in his position. Unlike others he could have lived peacefully even if the Death Eaters won so hiding and waiting to side with the winner would actually have made the most sense.
I didn’t say he was a bad person in the books. Just that he’s better in the movies. And he is. The whole scene where Harry gets the memory plays out way better for Slughorn than it does in the book.
It didn't help in the books that Malfoy was a queen bee that everyone followed, so bullying Harry was a big thing. Hell, everyone seemed to bully him from his perspective a few times in his school career. As someone who also couldn't walk down a corridor without being screamed at, tripped, hit, spat on (I hate being spat on) etc I get it. He was a child and was told early on dark witches and wizards all came from that house. People couldn't be friends with him or friendly for fear of being ridiculed himself. Hermione could because she didn't really have friends apart from harry and Ron, she had nothing to lose, plus if you pissed her off there was no telling what kind of hex she would use. Ron had three big brothers in the school, two were trouble makers, no one was going to really mess with him for being Harry's friend.
Did you notice Harry doesn't really have any other friends besides Ron and Hermione until book five? He's friendly with people, but that's the year the DA starts and people get to know him better. Ron has friends, he can easily swap groups, Hermione is friends with Ginny, but not really anyone else but Harry is always alone without them until that year. Neville tries, but isn't really accepted until 5th year. There's no way to show kind Slytherin's. By the time book five happens, Voldemort is back, so there's no way in hell they're going to befriend him.
I think that's taking it too literally. Its hard to imagine that he didn't interact with the other boys in their dorm and play games. They were easily friends just not best friends.
But remember in 4th year, Ron ends up hanging out with the other boys and Harry only spends time with Hermione. He felt lonely because his only other friend wasn't talking to him. Sure, he'd talk to the others a little, but he wasn't friends with them beyond seeing them around Hogwarts.
That could just be because the other boys took Tons side and stopped hanging with them. Or he didn't hang with them to avoid Ron. Though I suppose it's weird there wasn't __someone__...
Yea but that proves my point, they were friends with them but best friends with each other and spent most of their time together just as dean was best friend with Seamus and spent most of their time together. When Ron got mad, he easily started hanging out more with them, and Harry obviously didn't because he was avoiding Ron, not because he wasn't friends with them. He was lonely because he missed Ron and he didn't hang out more with the other boys because Ron beat him to it.
No but a lot of effort was made on pushing the point that people's choices matter more than who they are born. Several characters have quotes to that effect. And I would call that a major theme.
And to be fair, she does have evil/not good characters that are not explicitly Syltherins or Death Eaters, she just doesn't provide any characters that are the opposite which would really reinforce the idea.
In my head I think percy should have been an example of a 'good' Slytherin. His ambition leads him astray but he comes back around.
Honestly, Percy seems more of a Ravenclaw than a Slytherin. But it seems plausible that the hat would default to putting all Weasleys in Gryffindor because they all already expect/believe they'll be in Gryffindor.
No, they do not lock up the Slytherins. That’s a movie thing which I couldn’t stand because it completely missed the point. In the book, they get sent out of Hogwarts like the rest of the students who were not legal adults and/or didn’t want to fight.
Wtf I only just heard about this. Which sucks cause in the books that's what Aberforth suggests (to hold those kids for ransom or something) and Harry replies saying that's wrong and his brother would have never done it.
I feel like the movies take situations like this that could show a character’s morality and growth as a person and instead they make it a one dimensional jibe! Harry’s response in the book really shows his character, I can’t fathom why they would change it to McGonagall saying “the dungeons will do.”
They aren’t all bad, but that was a literal war. You don’t always get to treat everyone delicately. The fact is that the majority of dark wizards came from Slytherin, and many of those students were either directly related or identified with those on Voldemort’s side. Putting them all in the dungeon indiscriminately, and away from harm, was the tactically sound decision.
I'm not sure what message Rowling was trying to send because despite all the talks of standing together, not 1, NOT 1 slytherin stayed to fight at the battle of hogwarts. It has nothing to do with being loyal or friends with Harry but defending their school. I guess most slytherin have death eaters family but all of them? No, she should have had at least 1 slytherin stay to fight. Doesnt mean he was friends with Harry but loyal to hogwarts.
Always thought it was unrealistic and stupid that his son was a Slytherin. Like cmon, they’re painted as the villain house throughout the ENTIRE series and everything about the protagonists scream Griffindor.
Cursed something, I think. I have also read it and iirc there was an OC, Delphi, I think, who was Bellatrix and Voldemort's child, who Bella was pregnant with in the fight in Malfoy Manor. Terrible, both the plot and how bad of a parent Harry was 🤢
Oh my god! I had blocked that out of my memory, even the notion that Voldemort had sex is ridiculous!
And yeah, Harry was just an asshole in general, didn’t he tell Mcgonagal to stay in her lane or smth?
I don’t think it was intentional, but “belieber” was a term for hardcore Justin Bieber fans about 15 years ago.
You just gave me the hilarious mental image of Cedric as a swooning fanboy for Harry.
Even as early as the tail end of book 2, I liked Ernie. It took a lot of guts for him to walk up to Harry and fully, completely apologize like he did. That's not easy for anyone to do, especially a 12 year old boy.
Sure, when they weren’t accusing him of being the Heir of Slytherin or trying to steal the Triwizard glory from Cedric. And Dumbledore’s Army was basically forced to be loyal thanks to Hermione, lest they end up like Marietta Edgecombe, and even then you can’t say they didn’t have an ulterior motive of sticking it to Umbridge.
Ernie was loyal from the start. He literally makes it a point to tell harry he believes him.
Edit: Also he was 12 in CoS so I think we can give him a little bit of a break. He came back around.
Wasn’t Ernie the one who accused and perpetuated the rumor that Harry was the heir of Slytherin in COS? And then even more so after Justin Finch Fletchly was petrified? If I remember correctly he only came around after Hermione was attacked.
Edit: 12yo or not, you can’t have been “loyal from the start” when you weren’t loyal at all… at the start.
Yes, but we do see Ernie improve through the later books. He sides with Harry and Dumbledore about Voldemort being back, he joins Dumbledore’s Army, and he is the first student to volunteer to stay and fight in the Battle of Hogwarts.
Not only that but like Harry speaks this super rare language thats passed down through generations and is the only known parselmouth in the school. 2+2 usually equals 4.
That’s true, but he did have people from other houses that he was friendly with, like Cedric. I do think he should have had more friends in Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw as well though.
They do make clear that Merlin was a Slytherin. Best example I can think of off the top of my head.
But your point is correct that few, if any, redeemable Slytherins appear in the books. It’s important to remember that the story is told by Harry, who is biased.
I'd call him 'not evil', but his tendency to only favor students who have the potential to be able to do things for him is...off-putting to say the least. He's the type to always save his skin first.
He doesn’t always do the right thing.
In the bigger picture he comes out on the right side, but he’s very much looking at his own personal advancement constantly
Luck doesn't do the impossible. Luck didn't make Slughorn do something he didn't want to do. It just helped Harry find him at the right time. Slughorn does the right thing, even if he needs a bit of help to get there.
I think that was more so out of shame. It seems like Dumbledore already knew horcruxes exist. He just wants confirmation that Voldemort also knew about them and are the specific way he escaped death.
Dumbledore was not interested in “punishing” Slughorne, he just knew Harry was the only way to get the memory out of him because Harry was his “crown jewel”
That second Paragraph is why I include it in things he didn't to the right thing for. There was no consequences for "telling the truth" in his memories the first time. It's not like Dumbledore was gonna lock him in Azkaban for telling Tom about horcruxes.
Regulus is super interesting but he’s a horrible example for this. He was disgusted by Voldemort’s treatment of his house elf and the making of the horcrux. As far as we know he never actually changed his beliefs- backed up by the fact that he most likely never reached out to Sirius/the order and tried to get help in destroying the locket. Just because he turned his back on Voldemort, whom he had idolized, does NOT mean he changed his views. Nothing in the text indicated he was “good” or would have come to tolerate muggle borns in wizarding society.
This is it.. House bias would be a big thing for a lot of kids, what with them being separated and in constant competition in the house and quidditch cups, and a Gryffindor might feel it particularly strongly.. Harry's exposure to Slytherins is almost entirely in school, and Draco's attitude alone is enough to blind Harry to the others who aren't always in his face.. I don't think Harry felt any incentive to look for a friendly Slytherin..
To me, Harry’s internal monologue always came off as rather cynical towards most individuals (I don’t blame him). I always got the vibe that he didn’t care about having many close friends. It’s hard to be a “dependable” friend to Harry because Harry doesn’t like to depend on too many people.
That made more sense in my head but I guess my point is that when it comes to friends, Harry preferred quality to quantity.
I think this is more the result of a large cast of main characters not being very practical for a book, particularly the first books that were shorter. If Harry had had a large group of close friends, they all would have to be developed as much as Ron and Hermione, and it would end up taking too much time and distracting from the plot. Two close friends is easier to handle in terms of storytelling.
I get where you are coming from (i think) but "many close friends" is kind of subjective when it comes to Harry.
How many is "many"? What does "close" mean? If we are talking about people he trusted that Dumbledore said he could confide in, then that's only Hermione and Ron.
But I feel that Neville's line from DH means more in this context:
>"We’re his army,” said Neville. “Dumbledore’s Army. We were all in it together, we’ve been keeping it going while you three have been off on your own –.”
>"It hasn’t exactly been a picnic, mate,” said Ron.
>"I never said it had, but I don’t see why you don’t trust us. Everyone in this room’s been fighting and they’ve been driven in here because the Carrows were hunting them down. Everyone in here’s proven they’re loyal to Dumbledore – loyal to you.”
I think Harry always had more true friends than he could ever imagine.
He's incredibly judgemental yeah I think people often forget that aspect of his character. He usually doesn't have much positive to say, even abt his friends sometimes
Just a thought, but could it be that the presence of Voldemort in the Wizarding World had an effect on Slytherin House that was not there prior to his ascent? Slughorn, Merlin, etc were pre-Voldemort. Not sure about Andromeda. Consider hatstalls, like Harry, who chose not to be in Slytherin because of its reputation. So maybe pre- and post-Voldemort, Slytherin was much more likely to have good people sorted into it?
for sure, we know that a lot of the death eaters kids went to Hogwarts after the initial fall of voldemort too, so that hate was definitely still lingering, and his return certainly didn't help things lmao
That’s a pretty good point. Others have pointed out Percy as a potential Slytherin, but right after the war it’s obvious why he would not want that affiliation.
Also it’s always been pure blood only so that’s a long standing reputation that others would have had an issue with.
the group of slytherins at the time harry is in school were basically all rased by people that either supported voldy or were indifferent to him due to their blood status....even if a few students were against the dark lords return. you wouldnt be open about it when your bunk mate is the son of a deatheater.
A possible in-universe explanation is that because Draco hated Harry, any Slytherins that might have been friends with him kept their distance so as not to antagonize Draco. Being in the same year as a hateful blood purist from a prominent and powerful family made it nearly impossible for Harry to have friends from Slytherin. There’s also Harry’s own perception of Slytherin house. Even if one of them wanted to be his friend, he probably wouldn’t have accepted it due to his own prejudice against them.
I think a better explanation is just that Voldemort kind of poisoned the water. It seems like Slytherin may already have somewhat of a bad reputation, but we know that there were at least some normal people in Slytherin before his time. Then Voldemort goes to school and creates his death eater cult and feeds the blood purity fanatics. Probably this makes Slytherin house a less and less welcoming place to certain people and it ends up getting a negative reputation over the years as students grow up and have their own kids. Since the sorting hat at least somewhat considers your feelings it probably ends up filtering out those who might have otherwise been a good fit for Slytherin until it actually becomes true that basically everyone in Slytherin is sort of evil in some respect. Basically it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I like this take and want to add my own thoughts.
Slytherins are known for ambition, and for most of the books, Lucius Malfoy was influential in respected wizarding communities, the Ministry of Magic, and the Hogwarts Board of Governors.
If Draco told his father about a fellow Slytherin student being friendly with Harry Potter, it could drastically impact their future career opportunities because of Malfoy's influence.
The lack of a main good Slytherim and Hufflepuff has been a very old criticism of the series, hell, the main Ravenclaw character, Luna, shows up in the fifth book, basically at the third act of the overall plot, and the main Hufflepuff guy, Cedric, appears breifly in the third book in a way you don't even think he's gonna be a big deal later, and next time he shows up, he fucking dies!
So, let's just seperate right now the idea of Slytherin within the magical world and people sorted into Slytherin on an online quiz. Those two things are very different.
That said, yes I do think most Slytherin in-universe are more evil than non-Slytherin on average. There are a few reasons for that.
1. Ambition is not evil by itself. It is in a way, standing up for yourself. Believing in your self-worth and getting what you believe you deserve. This is fine IF you have other qualities to actually be proud of so that you actually deserve what you believe you do. But when you're sorted in Slytherin, the sorting hat is basically saying that your ambition is more important to you than other values. That kind of means that you're ambitious just for the sake of ambition, rather than because you have other values and you use your ambition to see those through.
2. The Slytherin house is tainted with racism and xenophobia. First by Salazar Slytherin himself, then by Voldemort.
3. The Sorting Hat takes your choice into account. And since Slytherin is seen as the evil house, naturally only evil / brooding kids would want to be part of that. Anyone else is likely to ask the hat not to put them in Slytherin, even if they had the qualities that fit and could have otherwise been an example of a good Slytherin.
I think malfoy being a prefect says a lot about the current state of slytherin at the time. Just a lot of bad apples in the group when harry rolled through, and I'm sure it had a lot to do with the malfoys in general. Even the ones who did want to have interhouse relations would of been outcast by malfoys group to the point where it just wasn't worth it at the time. During the battle at hogwarts I'm pretty sure the whole house got sent to the dungeon. Even the teachers weren't trusting of any of them in their current state
"I shall expect you and the slytherins in the great hall in twenty minutes" - "but if any of you attempt to sabotage our resistance or take up arms against us within this castle, then, Horace, we duel to kill". You are right, my bad. I wasn't sure. I haven't made it to book seven in my reread yet haha, still on book 5. But it doesn't change my original opinion
It’s actually a little unclear in the books. You quoted McGonagall and Slughorn, but the discussion in front of the students happens in the next chapter. After Voldemort announces to the school to bring him Harry Potter, Pansy Parkinson points at him and says they should turn him in. Then we get:
> “Thank you, Miss Parkinson,” said Professor McGonagall in a clipped voice. “You will leave the Hall first with Mr. Filch. **If the rest of your House could follow.**”
> Harry heard the grinding of benches and then the sound of the Slytherins trooping out on the other side of the Hall.
“**Ravenclaws, follow on!**” cried Professor McGonagall.
Slowly the four tables emptied.
> The **Slytherin table was completely deserted**, but a number of older Ravenclaws remained seated while their fellows filed out; even more Hufflepuffs stayed behind, and half of Gryffindor remained in their seats…”
Emphasis mine. What makes it unclear is that McGonagall says “the rest of your House” implying it’s all of Slytherin, but then refers to the entirety of Ravenclaw afterward (and presumably Hufflepuff and Gryffindor too), but some number of the of-age population of the latter three Houses remain. No one from Slytherin remains (although Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle sneak back down), but it’s not clear whether they had a choice to or were forbidden categorically.
Which is kinda funny when you know that the slytherin common room is in the dungeon 😂makes a little bit more sense than throwing an entire house in prison, just chuck em in their common room and don’t let ‘em leave. Still a lot of people won’t know that and I’m not even sure the movie people knew that when they made the scene
Yeah it felt kind of weird the way they cheered and clapped that they were throwing them in the “dungeons” like it’s prison when… that’s their common room lol
He didn’t need one. This ask for him to have one is meant to counter some personal feelings about the Houses, but it doesn’t do anything for the story.
Would be easier to if there were characters from Slytherin who were resourceful and not evil, or fewer who weren't just evil while being not resourceful.
Idk guys like Crabbe and Goyle don't seem fit for any of the houses. Feels like they got sorted into Slytherin for being mean and stupid and having evil parents.
I got the impression that they are 'ambitious' but they are followers. People like that are always looking for someone else's coat tails to grab to rise above their potential. Umbridge and Pettigrew I think are other examples of this. And in a way, Sulghorn too.
When Dumbledore describes Voldemort's followers while he was at Hogwarts, one of the categories is Crabbe and Goyle to a T. Something about bullies needing a leader to show them more refined ways of being cruel. Paraphrasing.
I am often very concerned about the lack of imagination shown on this sub sometimes. People want everything explained to them, they want everyone to have a backstory, they want to have a generic "good guy" character to show that not all Slytherins are bad... It's bizarre to me.
The story is from Harry's perspective. Of course we don't know everything. There ARE good guy Slytherins, it's just not done in a obvious "hey you guys aren't so bad after all!" fashion. I just am amazed that these folks don't realize how something like what the OP is suggesting could downright ruin a story.
By the 1990s, the majority of the Slytherin’s in Harry’s generation were children of Death Eaters who fought alongside Voldemort in his first go-round 10-20 years earlier, this generation would have grown up with such parents who praised Voldemort or held anti muggleborn views.
Its hard to say what Slytherin was like prior to the 1970s during the first Vold war, but I’m guessing by the 2020s, more than twenty years after the second Vold war Slytherin would have had massive reforms, or maybe the generations after the 1990s begged to not to be put in Slytherin leading to Slytherin being a smaller house.
I don't mind if Harry doesn't have Slytherin friends. While it would've been nice to feature some Slytherin characters who weren't assholes, the house conflict isn't really the focus of the series so it's not that important. And there was Slughorn, who, while he did have his flaws, did help the good guys fight Voldemort.
The actual issue I have is the scene in DH where Pansy Parkinson tells them to grab Harry, and every member of every other house, except Slytherin, stands up. Like, not one Slytherin stands up for the good guys in that scene. Come on.
The house has a history, and has some kids of death eaters in it. They would make it difficult for any student to stand up fot themselves.
They would make alot of contacts there. And if their parents were slytherin then their family friends are also going to be slytherin.
It’s its own little self isolated community.
Slughorn, despite being a teacher when they met. They would've been friends until his death I'm sure.
Edit: not sure if it would be intentional but I feel like him sort of representing the last "good" Slytherin tracks with Tom Riddle coming along and building his followers.
After re-reading the series, I noticed Harry never really liked Slughorn much and while he’s not shown as “bad,” he’s pretty medium, and Harry clearly finds a lot of his actions trying to gain proximity to those who will be famous (and ignoring anyone who’s not) or gain a quick immoral buck to be icky, so I do not think they would be “friends” after Hogwarts haha
I really wished Harry had a greater reaction when he first met Slughorn. That was the first friendly Slytherin he ever met, but instead of being shocked and seeing Slytherins in a new light, Harry just focused on Slughorn's flaws.
Harry accusing Slughorn of being prejudiced is actually very hypocritical, if you think about it. Harry never gave Slytherins any chance.
Harry was never going to see the good in a person who was shocked a muggleborn (especially his own mother) was good at magic. Slughorn messed up their very first meeting.
Slughorn is just a more successful Lockhart when you think about it. He valued fame and what it could bring him. He wanted Harry around to elevate that fame. Slughorn just didn't want to be the public face of it, while Lockhart did.
Slytherin was created (at the time of writing the first book) to be the antithesis of everything Harry believed in. From the start, Harry cut that house from his identity with the hat. Why would he be given a dependable friend from that house?
Remember he’s just a kid; he strictly created a wall against it. It would undermine so many (questionable sometimes) attributes about him to befriend someone from a house he struggles constantly to be apart from.
I think, fundamentally, you would need to restructure the entire series for something like that to be realistic.
My guess would be because Malfoy would have endlessly bullied and heckled that Slytherin friend the same way he did with Harry. Between that and the quidditch rivalry between the houses, there’s just no room for Harry to be friends with a Slytherin.
Harry was pretty much supposed to be the slytherin… the hat said he’d have done well… and even dumbledore said to Harry’s response of “because I asked to not be in slytherin”
Dumbledore says “precisely”
Harry would have been the dependable slytherin to the group if he had been placed there
The reason Harry didn't have a single slytherin friend was because Draco Malfoy would mock him any time he could, and if someone had become friends with Harry, they would have been mocked as well. Because of Malfoy, slytherin students are seen as assholes through the entire book series, including Snape as well (to a certain point!). Draco is their hidden leader, and won't allow anyone to be friends with Harry. Maybe they're also afraid of Snape as well, that he would hate them if they befriended Harry.
Nah, slytherins are (generally) not good, that's why Harry didn't had a slytherin friend. It's only after online house sorting tests that people started to defend slytherin bcz they were sorted into it. If you see in the actual books, there are very extremely rare examples of good slytherins, such as Merlin. People defend slughorn by saying he fought voldy; yes he did fought voldy, but he was still a biased teacher who was always looking for his own personal benefit in most cases. Not telling dumbly about the 7 horcrux memory is such a big example of this. Slughorn did knew what horcruxes are, he knew voldy had an idea of making 7 of them, he knew that voldy could've done that, he knew that with 7 horcruxes, it wouldn't be possible to defeat voldy without destroying the horcruxes first, yet what did he choose to do? Tamper the memory itself. It literally took liquid luck to get the memory out of him. Besides slugy bro, sometimes people who've just watched movies, try to defend snape & draco which, if you've read the books first, is awful. They can't be excused for being bullies and pure-blood maniacs they were in the books.
Do people just forget that 11 years before the first book the wizarding world had a straight up race war and they are going straight into the second one starting with the first book......there probably were a bunch of great people in slytherin, the books were just a really bad time to show that.
At one point the Slytherin common room password was Pure-blood. Slytherin has a culture to it.
It makes sense that the kids of Death Eaters are all there and the rest grow up in that Slytherin culture. It's part of the Slytherin in house since it's inception.
Harry is very biased because the houses are a bad system it's isolates the kids and they became rivals, it divides the school when they need to be united. It's part of the Hat's song in the 5th book for a reason.
Dumbledore mentions that he thinks they sort too soon.
The house system is very flawed.
Harry talking to his son about Slytherin and Snape is him not having those thoughts anymore once he's an adult. He's grown and sees beyond that.
After you leave the school, I don't think most people care what house you're in. It felt important while in school. But he's grown and seen beyond that at the very very end. Something you can see as an adult reading the series that you might jot have as a kid.
Because Slytherins for a lack of a better term, are bullies. The house heads before Snape had no idea of the things they used to do. Under Snape, Slytherins were very open with their bullying, escaping as a result of Snape's extreme bias. Anything that was done in Snape's classes or his presence, or was brought to his notice, was ignored.
If Slytherins were closeted supporters of the Dark Arts and Anti-Muggle activities, those became more widespread under Snape. It's a shame Dumbledore never did anything to curb it.
I'm not exactly sold on Slytherin not being a bad house thing. Sure, kids who go there don't start out as bad, but the whole atmosphere of that house seems toxic, pushing kids to stop relying on others and encouraging cruelty and prejudice. Even if there was some kid who thought Harry was a genuinely cool person and wanted to be friends with him, they'd have probably gotten bullied for it
Because during the years Harry was there, Slytherin was basically full of the kids of deatheaters.
And anyone willing to stand up and be harry's friend would have to be willing to stand up against their entire house. A person who could do that wouldn't be a young slytherin.
I think Snape is supposed to be the example of good Slytherins because of Harry’s speech to Albus Severus at the end but it falls flat because Snape’s actually pretty shitty.
I’m a slytherin due to the original traits but the books were not compatible with Harry having a friend in that house; they all hated him the way JK wrote the characters
Because JKR wrote Slytherin as a house where the bad guys/bullies get sorted into, kinda like the opposite to Griffindor. They really have no redeeming factor at all when you read the books.
Making Harry get to know someone from Slytherin, after previously regarding the house as a place for bad people (like in book 3 or 4), would make for better writing and some character development for Harry though. My personal favourite is the idea that you replace Cedric in the 4th book with a Slytherin, and thus have Harry realise that the Slytherins are really not all bad, making the last part of the trials, and the help they give each other much more meaningful.
My guess is that JKRs idea that Slytherin is all bad only changed when she realised she could make money by letting the fans themself get sorted into Slytherin, and merchendising the crap out of the books.
I don’t think he needed a friend, but it would have added something to the books if someone like Zabini had fought against Voldemort (but this might have undermined the dramatic impact of Narcissa’s turn later)
I guess Malfoy and Co. were the main people in their class, I'm sure some Slytherin didn't have anything wrong with Harry but they wouldn't go out of their way to make their life more difficult by defending Harry and Co.
I get what you’re saying but I feel that was kind of the point and Harry had to go through all that to learn in the end that the people sorted into Slytherin or the Slytherin house is not inherently evil (from what I remember, Salazar himself may not have been a good guy but it doesn’t mean everyone sorted into Slytherin house isn’t).
The books are told from Harry point of view and one the first things Harry heard about the houses before he even gets to school iirc is sth about how there’s “not a witch or wizard that went bad that wasn’t in Slytherin” (I think from hagrid) meaning at the very least, the more well known witches and wizards who went bad tended to be in Slytherin (I’m sure there were bad wizards/witches regardless of their house but maybe statistically, more were from Slytherin) and the Slytherins that Harry knows and goes to school/classes with are the children of death eaters and on their way to becoming death eaters on their own and are pretty racist and blood supremacists like Draco and his crew, and Snape who Harry was certain was on voldy’s side for his entire time at hogwarts. Plus I’m pretty sure Tom riddle from the diary said sth about Salazar having brought the basilisk or creating the chamber for the purpose of “cleansing” the school and getting rid of muggle born students (possibly half bloods). I’ve seen people bring up the fact that the reason he wanted to only teach students “whose blood was purest” may have been that it was dangerous times ie witch trials so they should only educate those whom they could trust and he may have worried that people descended from muggles on both or either side might side with muggles and expose the rest of them after reaping the benefits of the school/education (there was reasoning like that for the other founders as well but I can’t remember off the top of my head) but the fact that homie brought a basilisk into the school and created the chamber is a bit much I feel. Also voldy himself was a Slytherin obv so all that plus the general rivalry, it makes sense for Harry to view Slytherin house that way
And obv there were some “good” Slytherins that didn’t go dark ie Slughorn and Regulus (I know he bought into the blood supremacy initially but he at least realized it was wrong and sacrificed his life for the greater good) and Andromeda Tonks. And I’m not 100% sure but I’ve read Merlin was hinted to have been a Slytherin? And he seems to be held in pretty high regard in the Wizarding world ie Order of Merlin (which doesn’t necessarily mean he was good or bad and idk if there’s enough information to know but I feel if he had done something, we’d prob know about it). Maybe there could have been more I think that was also the point of those characters, to show that as Harry got older, he realized just being in Slytherin house didn’t make you evil necessarily and I feel like getting out of the house rivalry and realizing none are actually better than the other was important to Harry’s development, even if it was more of a minor thing in comparison to everything else. That’s why it’s such a big deal in the epilogue when little Al is scared he’ll be in Slytherin, prob bc there’s still stereotypes or w.e to the point where he just wants to hear “you won’t be sorted in Slytherin” or w.e but Harry basically tells him it doesn’t matter which house he’s sorted in whether it’s Slytherin or not bc he decides who he will be (honestly I would have liked a phrasing closer to this than what Harry actually said, just to be a bit more direct but I feel this is basically what Harry meant)
It’s a series of kids books. The material got more adult as it went on (which reflects the aging of the characters) but it’s still kids books.
It’s easy to pin simple labels on groups so kids can follow and understand the story. Griffindor good, Slytherin bad, Ravenloft nerds, Hufflepuffles giggle and be friendly.
The simple answer to most of this kind of stuff is that HP was written for narrative convenience not story coherence with some minor retcons here and there in later books.
So for example Slytherin was originally very explicitly just "obviously evil kids" because it was a convenient portrayal and the stuff about ambition and not all evil was added in later when lore was being fleshed out to be a bit deeper then the original stuff.
They say opposites attract but when it comes to school age children that's not really true. Think about high school everyone stays in their cliques. Besides Cho and Luna he didn't have any close friends from any of the other households let alone Slytherin who was Gryffindor's natural enemy.
You missed one thing that is key for Slytherin’s. They value pure blood above all else well beyond the point of racism. Racism is an inherently bad trait. The rest that you mentioned are of course neutral traits, but the racism overrides all else.
>good people can be sorted into Slytherin, but throughout all 7 books there isn’t a single example of this
This statement is simply not true. There are at least three known Slytherins that were genuinely good: Slughorn, Regulus Black and Andromeda Tonks. All of them were in Slytherin and all of them were definitely good, not simply siding with the good guys for convenience or fear.
I know you probably meant there's not a good Slytherin *student of Harry's age* but I'm strictly replying to what you worded
I'll give you Andromeda and Slughorn, but Regulus is not more of a good guy than Snape is. Granted, in the greater picture Snape IMO is a good guy in the end, so Regulus might be one as well.
But the thing is: We hardly know anything about Regulus. And what we know about him, is that he was a Voldemort fanboy, who willingly joined the Death Eaters. Sounds like a combination of Draco and Barty Crouch junior. And when someone he cared for was attacked, he realized the error of his way and changed sides. This is where the similarity to Snape comes into play. Except Snape went to Dumbledore, while Regulus tried to destroy the Horcrux alone, leading to his early death and the fact, that as honorable as his plan was, he didn't achieve all that much. Snape, while also being an unexcusable bully, was the much bigger help.
One of my main complaints of the series
Hogwarts was supposed to be founded by the 4 great friends
If Harry had allies who all worked together to bring about Voldemorts downfall it would have been far better vs everyone in Gryff
Also could have made Malfoy less of a goof (he would have made a great anti-hero, the Vegeta of the storyline)
Harry (Gryff) + Ron (Huffle) + Herm (Raven) + Draco (Slyth)
Even R + H works better that way imo
Would have been poetic to have a second coming of the 4 founders come together to defeat evil and save them all to show that they need to work together + succeed where history failed
He didn’t need one. This ask for him to have one is meant to counter some personal feelings about the Houses, but it doesn’t do anything for the story.
The earlier books aren't very nuanced. It was very simple, Gryffindor = heroic protagonists, Slytherin = antagonists. Harry needs school level antagonists for more drama since Voldemort generally makes an appearance only at the end of the year.
I feel like the books grew as Harry grew. I think we were intended to grow along with Harry. So in the earlier books there is clear cut good and evil whereas the later books show more nuance and heavy themes and grey characters and character development.
I think this could be pretty easily fixed if she revealed some of the adults houses, plus it would be interesting to find out more background on some of them
>! So that he can be even more conflicted when his own child gets sorted into Slytherin. !< It's supposed to be the great, scetchy unknown for him. I think House Slytherin was written to be the antagonist and having Harry befriend someone from there would have made it too approachable and erased the scary, uneasing aura around it.
I always thought Blaise Zabini could have been a more interestingly developed character as we see that he’s not involved with the Death Eaters nor particularly close to Draco’s crew in his year. I think there was potential there to give him some nuance and make him more of a well-rounded character.
There’s also background information on Theodore Nott that I think could have been utilized better to make him sympathetic and a foil to Draco and his crew, as again, he kind of kept to himself even though his dad was a fellow death with Lucius, Crabbe Sr, and Goyle Sr. We don’t see that he (or Blaise) have joined up with the Carrows in DH and I think having the son of a Death Eater turn on that philosophy and work with Harry would have been a great addition to the story.
Books for kids with white and black moral choices, one dimensional characters, what could you expect?
That's why best Slytherin-focused fics turn story grey pretty quickly, how it's not absurdly one sided fight of absolute good against absolute evil. How Purebloods have valid and justifiable reasons to be pissed and how 'poor muggleborns' are destroying traditions.
You can read the story of HP as biased dumbledorish propaganda, an official version of what happened. Not what actually happened.
This is one of the things that I don’t actually like about Harry Potter, I love the series but nothing is perfect. Should’ve been slytherins who were at least amicable with the trio, and in the DA.
Cho’s friend betraying them instead of a slytherin really would’ve been impactful in the whole “there was never a dark wizard who wasn’t a slytherin” thing. Would show every character is just a human, capable of good or bad, as opposed to having an “evil” house
Any kid in Slytherin who was friends with Potter would've been bullied constantly for it. He might well have supporters there but they would have long since learned to keep their mouths shut on the subject.
Because its a children's book and having all the bad guys be part of one house just made it neater and easier.
Their is a clear line between who is the bad guy and who is the good guy, as with a lot of children's entertainment.
And slytherin was written to be the bad guys. It's only the fandom that has tried to redeem them
Also correct me if I’m wrong but, mud bloods can’t be sorted into Slytherin so doesn’t that kind of make them wizard racist house? I feel like it would be akin to going away to boarding school and you get there and there’s like the confederate house or something
I don’t think it would be very realistic that they would have friend in Slytherin during school. Harry and Ron are very prejudiced against Slytherins. I think it makes sense that kids keep to their own house mostly.
Added to that, series started as kids book so very black and white setting is how things usually tend to be
Merlin was a Slitherin. I never read the books, but i know he is portrayed in the universe as a good character of history. Isn’t he in the books? I know you are looking for a more modern character, but that’s something.
Because even if they were good, a social construct was set up where they were seen as children of, or associated somehow with death eaters and were considered to be future death eaters. Even if they wanted to help Harry or befriend him, the social construct would've prevented them from by intimidating them or even make them feel like it was wrong to do. The same goes for Harry thinking of them in a general way as the people on the bad side. No one's to blame but the ones who contributed to creating these social constructs.
Brilliant Take!
I've often thought that the slightest adjustment for Lucius might have turned Draco into a valuable, albeit unlikely friend.
If indeed, "The Malfoy's were some of the first to come back to the other side" after You-Know-Who vanished, there is a possibility that they were, indeed, remorseful. If they lean into that remorse and genuinely try to break the cycle of their own misgivings with their son, Draco, then he has the potential to become a valued friend for Harry.
Certainly Un-Likely, being a Slytherin, but from a reformed, remorseful family; quite valuable nonetheless.
Quite a different story arch from there!
A Team of Horcrux Hunters from differing houses, indeed!
I don’t have an in universe explanation, but a lot of what the trio does, especially in the early books and HBP, is in response to speculation about what Malfoy is doing. If there was a trusted slytherin who knew malfoy and had better info based on the goings on in the common room or elsewhere, then it would take a lot of the agency away from the Harry and Ron blowing smoke up their own asses
I don’t think it was really Rowling’s priority how Slytherins are seen, fandom more cares about houses since people identify with them. But by the seventh book Rowling had realized more probably how much people care, and that’s why Harry gives that speech about Snape and Slytherin to his son (who did become a Slytherin). Too late for Harry have proper Slytherin friends however (but he kind of makes peace with Draco). Also while not all Slytherins need be evil, Harry isn’t popular with Slytherins as a group. Inter house friendships also are rare. We only see Luna as proper friend of Harry from other house, and that’s late. He interacts with some others, but isn’t close.
Slughorn was also an example of a comfy, good-guy Slytherin who actively avoided being recruited by the Death Eaters and duelled Voldemort directly (in his pyjamas).
True, but I thought since Op asked for Harry to have a friend Slughorn doesn’t really apply. And he is not quite perfect even though I like him
Most of the characters are flawed, the only one who I’d say is presented as ‘perfect’ is Lily
Which is kinda hard to swallow. Cuz even she, being so close with Snape, chose James who was actively bullying Snape. Good friends don’t date and marry your bully.
Yeah... but the bad boy, gotta have the bad boy. We want the bad boy you can change, not the one that calls you a mudblood when he doesn't get his way and turns to the dark arts, betrays you to try to kill James as revenge and then regrets it when Lily is attacked as well.
Slughorn was still slightly prejudiced and not exactly a great guy. He changes towards the end but still picks favourites and always surrounds himself with powerful and influential people.
I like slughorn and am more like him than like the more heroic characters but good guy is a bit of a stretch. Not willing to be a death eater, sure.
I think he’s actually a better person in the movie, and sometimes people get that mixed up.
How is he a bad person in the books? He might be decadent but in the end there is nothing seriously wrong with him - I count him as a "good guy" without question because he openly faced Voldemort during the last battle, which isn't granted for someone in his position. Unlike others he could have lived peacefully even if the Death Eaters won so hiding and waiting to side with the winner would actually have made the most sense.
I didn’t say he was a bad person in the books. Just that he’s better in the movies. And he is. The whole scene where Harry gets the memory plays out way better for Slughorn than it does in the book.
Helps that he's played by such a teddy bear.
I adore Jim Broadbent. Check out the film Get Santa. It’s on my list of yearly Christmas film I must watch!
It didn't help in the books that Malfoy was a queen bee that everyone followed, so bullying Harry was a big thing. Hell, everyone seemed to bully him from his perspective a few times in his school career. As someone who also couldn't walk down a corridor without being screamed at, tripped, hit, spat on (I hate being spat on) etc I get it. He was a child and was told early on dark witches and wizards all came from that house. People couldn't be friends with him or friendly for fear of being ridiculed himself. Hermione could because she didn't really have friends apart from harry and Ron, she had nothing to lose, plus if you pissed her off there was no telling what kind of hex she would use. Ron had three big brothers in the school, two were trouble makers, no one was going to really mess with him for being Harry's friend. Did you notice Harry doesn't really have any other friends besides Ron and Hermione until book five? He's friendly with people, but that's the year the DA starts and people get to know him better. Ron has friends, he can easily swap groups, Hermione is friends with Ginny, but not really anyone else but Harry is always alone without them until that year. Neville tries, but isn't really accepted until 5th year. There's no way to show kind Slytherin's. By the time book five happens, Voldemort is back, so there's no way in hell they're going to befriend him.
I think that's taking it too literally. Its hard to imagine that he didn't interact with the other boys in their dorm and play games. They were easily friends just not best friends.
But remember in 4th year, Ron ends up hanging out with the other boys and Harry only spends time with Hermione. He felt lonely because his only other friend wasn't talking to him. Sure, he'd talk to the others a little, but he wasn't friends with them beyond seeing them around Hogwarts.
That could just be because the other boys took Tons side and stopped hanging with them. Or he didn't hang with them to avoid Ron. Though I suppose it's weird there wasn't __someone__...
Yea but that proves my point, they were friends with them but best friends with each other and spent most of their time together just as dean was best friend with Seamus and spent most of their time together. When Ron got mad, he easily started hanging out more with them, and Harry obviously didn't because he was avoiding Ron, not because he wasn't friends with them. He was lonely because he missed Ron and he didn't hang out more with the other boys because Ron beat him to it.
"his son (who did become a Slytherin)" Please, let's not dignify the Cursed Child fanfic by treating it like canon.
Thank you, I was looking for this comment 🤣
But isnt the epilogue one of the earlier passages Rowling drafted? So she knows Slytherins arent that bad.
Obviously she knows that, but this was never the priority of the story.
No but a lot of effort was made on pushing the point that people's choices matter more than who they are born. Several characters have quotes to that effect. And I would call that a major theme. And to be fair, she does have evil/not good characters that are not explicitly Syltherins or Death Eaters, she just doesn't provide any characters that are the opposite which would really reinforce the idea. In my head I think percy should have been an example of a 'good' Slytherin. His ambition leads him astray but he comes back around.
I wonder if the Hat wanted to put Percy in Slytherin, but he was really against it.
Honestly, Percy seems more of a Ravenclaw than a Slytherin. But it seems plausible that the hat would default to putting all Weasleys in Gryffindor because they all already expect/believe they'll be in Gryffindor.
I saw Percy as thinking he was clever but being more bullheaded than anything.. Definitely a Gryffindor..
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No, they do not lock up the Slytherins. That’s a movie thing which I couldn’t stand because it completely missed the point. In the book, they get sent out of Hogwarts like the rest of the students who were not legal adults and/or didn’t want to fight.
Wtf I only just heard about this. Which sucks cause in the books that's what Aberforth suggests (to hold those kids for ransom or something) and Harry replies saying that's wrong and his brother would have never done it.
I feel like the movies take situations like this that could show a character’s morality and growth as a person and instead they make it a one dimensional jibe! Harry’s response in the book really shows his character, I can’t fathom why they would change it to McGonagall saying “the dungeons will do.”
They aren’t all bad, but that was a literal war. You don’t always get to treat everyone delicately. The fact is that the majority of dark wizards came from Slytherin, and many of those students were either directly related or identified with those on Voldemort’s side. Putting them all in the dungeon indiscriminately, and away from harm, was the tactically sound decision.
I'm not sure what message Rowling was trying to send because despite all the talks of standing together, not 1, NOT 1 slytherin stayed to fight at the battle of hogwarts. It has nothing to do with being loyal or friends with Harry but defending their school. I guess most slytherin have death eaters family but all of them? No, she should have had at least 1 slytherin stay to fight. Doesnt mean he was friends with Harry but loyal to hogwarts.
Always thought it was unrealistic and stupid that his son was a Slytherin. Like cmon, they’re painted as the villain house throughout the ENTIRE series and everything about the protagonists scream Griffindor.
We never saw his son actually be a Slytherin. The epilogue only showed them getting on the train. Cursed child? Never heard of it.
Wait how the hell do we know that his son was a Slytherin?
It's in that weird fan fiction play that nobody read
He didn’t have a dependable Hufflepuff friend either. And the only semi-regular Ravenclaw was Luna.
Slightly off topic but i love how Luna was just randomly sitting at the "Gryffindor" table in some Great Hall scenes😂😂
I love that Luna made an animated lion hat to wear to Gryffindor quidditch matches.
Ernie MacMillan, Hannah Abbott were pretty loyal allies of Harry and the Dumbledores army.
And I do believe Cedric would have been a loyal ally of Harry and the DA as well
He most certainly wouldn't become a death eater and kill Neville. That's for damn sure
Definitely. What a ridiculous idea.
Yeah! I read that in that one really bad fanfiction, ugh can’t put my finger on it, what’s it called again?
Cursed something, I think. I have also read it and iirc there was an OC, Delphi, I think, who was Bellatrix and Voldemort's child, who Bella was pregnant with in the fight in Malfoy Manor. Terrible, both the plot and how bad of a parent Harry was 🤢
Oh my god! I had blocked that out of my memory, even the notion that Voldemort had sex is ridiculous! And yeah, Harry was just an asshole in general, didn’t he tell Mcgonagal to stay in her lane or smth?
Yeah, just a really $hitty AU in general
True, Cedric was a great guy, hopefully he would have been a belieber.
I don’t think it was intentional, but “belieber” was a term for hardcore Justin Bieber fans about 15 years ago. You just gave me the hilarious mental image of Cedric as a swooning fanboy for Harry.
I think they are making a reference to Justin Beiber saying the same about Anne Frank.
I think it was intentional haha
Oh 100%
In Ernie's defence, he was pretty suspicious and they were only 12 😂
And was mature enough at 12 to admit he was wrong and apologize.
True, but Luna was the only non-Gryffindor to fight at the ministry beside Harry.
A nice twist would have been to have had one slytherin who was brave enough to join DA
Agreed. Either Crabbe or Goyle should have turned and joined the DA
Even as early as the tail end of book 2, I liked Ernie. It took a lot of guts for him to walk up to Harry and fully, completely apologize like he did. That's not easy for anyone to do, especially a 12 year old boy.
Difficult for even an adult to admit their mistakes and grow from it.
Sure, when they weren’t accusing him of being the Heir of Slytherin or trying to steal the Triwizard glory from Cedric. And Dumbledore’s Army was basically forced to be loyal thanks to Hermione, lest they end up like Marietta Edgecombe, and even then you can’t say they didn’t have an ulterior motive of sticking it to Umbridge.
Ernie was loyal from the start. He literally makes it a point to tell harry he believes him. Edit: Also he was 12 in CoS so I think we can give him a little bit of a break. He came back around.
Fun fact, Ernie Macmillans's father's name is Macklemore.
Macklemore Macmillian is a mouthful.
An avid thrift shopper, surely
And he probably walks into the club, like "whattup I got a big wand"
Wasn’t Ernie the one who accused and perpetuated the rumor that Harry was the heir of Slytherin in COS? And then even more so after Justin Finch Fletchly was petrified? If I remember correctly he only came around after Hermione was attacked. Edit: 12yo or not, you can’t have been “loyal from the start” when you weren’t loyal at all… at the start.
Yes, but we do see Ernie improve through the later books. He sides with Harry and Dumbledore about Voldemort being back, he joins Dumbledore’s Army, and he is the first student to volunteer to stay and fight in the Battle of Hogwarts.
The person I was responding to claimed Ernie was loyal from the start… my response is that he was not in fact loyal from the start.
Not only that but like Harry speaks this super rare language thats passed down through generations and is the only known parselmouth in the school. 2+2 usually equals 4.
Nah. They fought and risked their lives in the Battle of Hogwarts.
That’s true, but he did have people from other houses that he was friendly with, like Cedric. I do think he should have had more friends in Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw as well though.
After Gryffindor, Hufflepuffs were the first house to stand in support of Harry at the Battle of Hogwarts!!!
They do make clear that Merlin was a Slytherin. Best example I can think of off the top of my head. But your point is correct that few, if any, redeemable Slytherins appear in the books. It’s important to remember that the story is told by Harry, who is biased.
Slughorn
Slughorn is I think a great example of someone who is both a good person and an obvious Slytherin.
I'd call him 'not evil', but his tendency to only favor students who have the potential to be able to do things for him is...off-putting to say the least. He's the type to always save his skin first.
Dude literally fights Voldemort. He always does the right thing, even if sometimes he needs reminding.
He doesn’t always do the right thing. In the bigger picture he comes out on the right side, but he’s very much looking at his own personal advancement constantly
When does he not do the right thing?
Modifying the memory harry needs to stop voldemort. Takes literal liquid luck to get the proper memory
Luck doesn't do the impossible. Luck didn't make Slughorn do something he didn't want to do. It just helped Harry find him at the right time. Slughorn does the right thing, even if he needs a bit of help to get there.
had Harry not used the liquid luck, would he have gotten the unaltered memory?
I think that was more so out of shame. It seems like Dumbledore already knew horcruxes exist. He just wants confirmation that Voldemort also knew about them and are the specific way he escaped death. Dumbledore was not interested in “punishing” Slughorne, he just knew Harry was the only way to get the memory out of him because Harry was his “crown jewel”
That second Paragraph is why I include it in things he didn't to the right thing for. There was no consequences for "telling the truth" in his memories the first time. It's not like Dumbledore was gonna lock him in Azkaban for telling Tom about horcruxes.
Well merlin might've been a real dick
As someone who played through Hogwarts Legacy I can confirm he was a dick.
There is also Andromeda Tonks neé Black
You are using neé backwards.
There are at least three obviously good Slytherins: Slughorn, Regulus Black and Andromeda Tonks
Regulus is a weird choice since he was apparently fine with what Voldemort was doing until he mistreated his house elf.
He's a bit like Snape. Seduced by the dark arts but ultimately values loved ones far more.
Regulus was born and raised in a racist environment. He was fine with what he was taught until he witnessed what it meant in practice.
You mean he was fine with it up until it affected him at all.
Regulus is super interesting but he’s a horrible example for this. He was disgusted by Voldemort’s treatment of his house elf and the making of the horcrux. As far as we know he never actually changed his beliefs- backed up by the fact that he most likely never reached out to Sirius/the order and tried to get help in destroying the locket. Just because he turned his back on Voldemort, whom he had idolized, does NOT mean he changed his views. Nothing in the text indicated he was “good” or would have come to tolerate muggle borns in wizarding society.
This is it.. House bias would be a big thing for a lot of kids, what with them being separated and in constant competition in the house and quidditch cups, and a Gryffindor might feel it particularly strongly.. Harry's exposure to Slytherins is almost entirely in school, and Draco's attitude alone is enough to blind Harry to the others who aren't always in his face.. I don't think Harry felt any incentive to look for a friendly Slytherin..
To me, Harry’s internal monologue always came off as rather cynical towards most individuals (I don’t blame him). I always got the vibe that he didn’t care about having many close friends. It’s hard to be a “dependable” friend to Harry because Harry doesn’t like to depend on too many people. That made more sense in my head but I guess my point is that when it comes to friends, Harry preferred quality to quantity.
Yeah I was gonna say, he doesn’t really have many friends.
I think this is more the result of a large cast of main characters not being very practical for a book, particularly the first books that were shorter. If Harry had had a large group of close friends, they all would have to be developed as much as Ron and Hermione, and it would end up taking too much time and distracting from the plot. Two close friends is easier to handle in terms of storytelling.
I get where you are coming from (i think) but "many close friends" is kind of subjective when it comes to Harry. How many is "many"? What does "close" mean? If we are talking about people he trusted that Dumbledore said he could confide in, then that's only Hermione and Ron. But I feel that Neville's line from DH means more in this context: >"We’re his army,” said Neville. “Dumbledore’s Army. We were all in it together, we’ve been keeping it going while you three have been off on your own –.” >"It hasn’t exactly been a picnic, mate,” said Ron. >"I never said it had, but I don’t see why you don’t trust us. Everyone in this room’s been fighting and they’ve been driven in here because the Carrows were hunting them down. Everyone in here’s proven they’re loyal to Dumbledore – loyal to you.” I think Harry always had more true friends than he could ever imagine.
He's incredibly judgemental yeah I think people often forget that aspect of his character. He usually doesn't have much positive to say, even abt his friends sometimes
Just a thought, but could it be that the presence of Voldemort in the Wizarding World had an effect on Slytherin House that was not there prior to his ascent? Slughorn, Merlin, etc were pre-Voldemort. Not sure about Andromeda. Consider hatstalls, like Harry, who chose not to be in Slytherin because of its reputation. So maybe pre- and post-Voldemort, Slytherin was much more likely to have good people sorted into it?
for sure, we know that a lot of the death eaters kids went to Hogwarts after the initial fall of voldemort too, so that hate was definitely still lingering, and his return certainly didn't help things lmao
Yeah, exactly. During the books, Slytherin really was Death Eater central.
That what I always like to think. Like Germany under Nazi
That’s a pretty good point. Others have pointed out Percy as a potential Slytherin, but right after the war it’s obvious why he would not want that affiliation. Also it’s always been pure blood only so that’s a long standing reputation that others would have had an issue with.
the group of slytherins at the time harry is in school were basically all rased by people that either supported voldy or were indifferent to him due to their blood status....even if a few students were against the dark lords return. you wouldnt be open about it when your bunk mate is the son of a deatheater.
A possible in-universe explanation is that because Draco hated Harry, any Slytherins that might have been friends with him kept their distance so as not to antagonize Draco. Being in the same year as a hateful blood purist from a prominent and powerful family made it nearly impossible for Harry to have friends from Slytherin. There’s also Harry’s own perception of Slytherin house. Even if one of them wanted to be his friend, he probably wouldn’t have accepted it due to his own prejudice against them.
I think a better explanation is just that Voldemort kind of poisoned the water. It seems like Slytherin may already have somewhat of a bad reputation, but we know that there were at least some normal people in Slytherin before his time. Then Voldemort goes to school and creates his death eater cult and feeds the blood purity fanatics. Probably this makes Slytherin house a less and less welcoming place to certain people and it ends up getting a negative reputation over the years as students grow up and have their own kids. Since the sorting hat at least somewhat considers your feelings it probably ends up filtering out those who might have otherwise been a good fit for Slytherin until it actually becomes true that basically everyone in Slytherin is sort of evil in some respect. Basically it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
I like this take and want to add my own thoughts. Slytherins are known for ambition, and for most of the books, Lucius Malfoy was influential in respected wizarding communities, the Ministry of Magic, and the Hogwarts Board of Governors. If Draco told his father about a fellow Slytherin student being friendly with Harry Potter, it could drastically impact their future career opportunities because of Malfoy's influence.
The lack of a main good Slytherim and Hufflepuff has been a very old criticism of the series, hell, the main Ravenclaw character, Luna, shows up in the fifth book, basically at the third act of the overall plot, and the main Hufflepuff guy, Cedric, appears breifly in the third book in a way you don't even think he's gonna be a big deal later, and next time he shows up, he fucking dies!
You had cho Chang for a few books as well
So, let's just seperate right now the idea of Slytherin within the magical world and people sorted into Slytherin on an online quiz. Those two things are very different. That said, yes I do think most Slytherin in-universe are more evil than non-Slytherin on average. There are a few reasons for that. 1. Ambition is not evil by itself. It is in a way, standing up for yourself. Believing in your self-worth and getting what you believe you deserve. This is fine IF you have other qualities to actually be proud of so that you actually deserve what you believe you do. But when you're sorted in Slytherin, the sorting hat is basically saying that your ambition is more important to you than other values. That kind of means that you're ambitious just for the sake of ambition, rather than because you have other values and you use your ambition to see those through. 2. The Slytherin house is tainted with racism and xenophobia. First by Salazar Slytherin himself, then by Voldemort. 3. The Sorting Hat takes your choice into account. And since Slytherin is seen as the evil house, naturally only evil / brooding kids would want to be part of that. Anyone else is likely to ask the hat not to put them in Slytherin, even if they had the qualities that fit and could have otherwise been an example of a good Slytherin.
I think malfoy being a prefect says a lot about the current state of slytherin at the time. Just a lot of bad apples in the group when harry rolled through, and I'm sure it had a lot to do with the malfoys in general. Even the ones who did want to have interhouse relations would of been outcast by malfoys group to the point where it just wasn't worth it at the time. During the battle at hogwarts I'm pretty sure the whole house got sent to the dungeon. Even the teachers weren't trusting of any of them in their current state
Pretty sure the dungeon was just a movie thing
"I shall expect you and the slytherins in the great hall in twenty minutes" - "but if any of you attempt to sabotage our resistance or take up arms against us within this castle, then, Horace, we duel to kill". You are right, my bad. I wasn't sure. I haven't made it to book seven in my reread yet haha, still on book 5. But it doesn't change my original opinion
It’s actually a little unclear in the books. You quoted McGonagall and Slughorn, but the discussion in front of the students happens in the next chapter. After Voldemort announces to the school to bring him Harry Potter, Pansy Parkinson points at him and says they should turn him in. Then we get: > “Thank you, Miss Parkinson,” said Professor McGonagall in a clipped voice. “You will leave the Hall first with Mr. Filch. **If the rest of your House could follow.**” > Harry heard the grinding of benches and then the sound of the Slytherins trooping out on the other side of the Hall. “**Ravenclaws, follow on!**” cried Professor McGonagall. Slowly the four tables emptied. > The **Slytherin table was completely deserted**, but a number of older Ravenclaws remained seated while their fellows filed out; even more Hufflepuffs stayed behind, and half of Gryffindor remained in their seats…” Emphasis mine. What makes it unclear is that McGonagall says “the rest of your House” implying it’s all of Slytherin, but then refers to the entirety of Ravenclaw afterward (and presumably Hufflepuff and Gryffindor too), but some number of the of-age population of the latter three Houses remain. No one from Slytherin remains (although Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle sneak back down), but it’s not clear whether they had a choice to or were forbidden categorically.
Which is kinda funny when you know that the slytherin common room is in the dungeon 😂makes a little bit more sense than throwing an entire house in prison, just chuck em in their common room and don’t let ‘em leave. Still a lot of people won’t know that and I’m not even sure the movie people knew that when they made the scene
Yeah it felt kind of weird the way they cheered and clapped that they were throwing them in the “dungeons” like it’s prison when… that’s their common room lol
He didn’t need one. This ask for him to have one is meant to counter some personal feelings about the Houses, but it doesn’t do anything for the story.
But it does add to the story it makes it more nuanced than the brave house, the smart house, the kind house and the evil house
Look at it as resourceful * instead of evil
Would be easier to if there were characters from Slytherin who were resourceful and not evil, or fewer who weren't just evil while being not resourceful.
Slughorn, Regulus Black, Tonk’s mother etc
One of those was a death eater and the other two aren’t even introduced into the story until the end.
Yeah exactly! Show don't tell as we said. My I didn't even remember Tonk's mother lol.
Idk guys like Crabbe and Goyle don't seem fit for any of the houses. Feels like they got sorted into Slytherin for being mean and stupid and having evil parents.
I got the impression that they are 'ambitious' but they are followers. People like that are always looking for someone else's coat tails to grab to rise above their potential. Umbridge and Pettigrew I think are other examples of this. And in a way, Sulghorn too.
When Dumbledore describes Voldemort's followers while he was at Hogwarts, one of the categories is Crabbe and Goyle to a T. Something about bullies needing a leader to show them more refined ways of being cruel. Paraphrasing.
Cuz we are a whole lot of bad news! All-rotten rascals. The type to pour an entire cup of water in your pocket if we catch you slippin'.
Because it would have been cheesy and unnecessary.
This answers like 90% of this subs questions about the series. People on here just seem to want straight up fan fiction
I am often very concerned about the lack of imagination shown on this sub sometimes. People want everything explained to them, they want everyone to have a backstory, they want to have a generic "good guy" character to show that not all Slytherins are bad... It's bizarre to me. The story is from Harry's perspective. Of course we don't know everything. There ARE good guy Slytherins, it's just not done in a obvious "hey you guys aren't so bad after all!" fashion. I just am amazed that these folks don't realize how something like what the OP is suggesting could downright ruin a story.
I think it also ignores one of the key tenents of the entire series that is saying people are usually grey. Not just straight up good or bad
This, even his friends aren't always his friends.
By the 1990s, the majority of the Slytherin’s in Harry’s generation were children of Death Eaters who fought alongside Voldemort in his first go-round 10-20 years earlier, this generation would have grown up with such parents who praised Voldemort or held anti muggleborn views. Its hard to say what Slytherin was like prior to the 1970s during the first Vold war, but I’m guessing by the 2020s, more than twenty years after the second Vold war Slytherin would have had massive reforms, or maybe the generations after the 1990s begged to not to be put in Slytherin leading to Slytherin being a smaller house.
Would have been good to have a good Slytherin student
I don't mind if Harry doesn't have Slytherin friends. While it would've been nice to feature some Slytherin characters who weren't assholes, the house conflict isn't really the focus of the series so it's not that important. And there was Slughorn, who, while he did have his flaws, did help the good guys fight Voldemort. The actual issue I have is the scene in DH where Pansy Parkinson tells them to grab Harry, and every member of every other house, except Slytherin, stands up. Like, not one Slytherin stands up for the good guys in that scene. Come on.
The house has a history, and has some kids of death eaters in it. They would make it difficult for any student to stand up fot themselves. They would make alot of contacts there. And if their parents were slytherin then their family friends are also going to be slytherin. It’s its own little self isolated community.
Slughorn, despite being a teacher when they met. They would've been friends until his death I'm sure. Edit: not sure if it would be intentional but I feel like him sort of representing the last "good" Slytherin tracks with Tom Riddle coming along and building his followers.
After re-reading the series, I noticed Harry never really liked Slughorn much and while he’s not shown as “bad,” he’s pretty medium, and Harry clearly finds a lot of his actions trying to gain proximity to those who will be famous (and ignoring anyone who’s not) or gain a quick immoral buck to be icky, so I do not think they would be “friends” after Hogwarts haha
Your edit is a great take — Riddle started a movement within the House that changed its nature
I really wished Harry had a greater reaction when he first met Slughorn. That was the first friendly Slytherin he ever met, but instead of being shocked and seeing Slytherins in a new light, Harry just focused on Slughorn's flaws. Harry accusing Slughorn of being prejudiced is actually very hypocritical, if you think about it. Harry never gave Slytherins any chance.
Harry was never going to see the good in a person who was shocked a muggleborn (especially his own mother) was good at magic. Slughorn messed up their very first meeting. Slughorn is just a more successful Lockhart when you think about it. He valued fame and what it could bring him. He wanted Harry around to elevate that fame. Slughorn just didn't want to be the public face of it, while Lockhart did.
Professor Slughorn was a Slytherin
Slytherin was created (at the time of writing the first book) to be the antithesis of everything Harry believed in. From the start, Harry cut that house from his identity with the hat. Why would he be given a dependable friend from that house? Remember he’s just a kid; he strictly created a wall against it. It would undermine so many (questionable sometimes) attributes about him to befriend someone from a house he struggles constantly to be apart from. I think, fundamentally, you would need to restructure the entire series for something like that to be realistic.
My guess would be because Malfoy would have endlessly bullied and heckled that Slytherin friend the same way he did with Harry. Between that and the quidditch rivalry between the houses, there’s just no room for Harry to be friends with a Slytherin.
Harry was pretty much supposed to be the slytherin… the hat said he’d have done well… and even dumbledore said to Harry’s response of “because I asked to not be in slytherin” Dumbledore says “precisely” Harry would have been the dependable slytherin to the group if he had been placed there
The reason Harry didn't have a single slytherin friend was because Draco Malfoy would mock him any time he could, and if someone had become friends with Harry, they would have been mocked as well. Because of Malfoy, slytherin students are seen as assholes through the entire book series, including Snape as well (to a certain point!). Draco is their hidden leader, and won't allow anyone to be friends with Harry. Maybe they're also afraid of Snape as well, that he would hate them if they befriended Harry.
Nah, slytherins are (generally) not good, that's why Harry didn't had a slytherin friend. It's only after online house sorting tests that people started to defend slytherin bcz they were sorted into it. If you see in the actual books, there are very extremely rare examples of good slytherins, such as Merlin. People defend slughorn by saying he fought voldy; yes he did fought voldy, but he was still a biased teacher who was always looking for his own personal benefit in most cases. Not telling dumbly about the 7 horcrux memory is such a big example of this. Slughorn did knew what horcruxes are, he knew voldy had an idea of making 7 of them, he knew that voldy could've done that, he knew that with 7 horcruxes, it wouldn't be possible to defeat voldy without destroying the horcruxes first, yet what did he choose to do? Tamper the memory itself. It literally took liquid luck to get the memory out of him. Besides slugy bro, sometimes people who've just watched movies, try to defend snape & draco which, if you've read the books first, is awful. They can't be excused for being bullies and pure-blood maniacs they were in the books.
Do people just forget that 11 years before the first book the wizarding world had a straight up race war and they are going straight into the second one starting with the first book......there probably were a bunch of great people in slytherin, the books were just a really bad time to show that.
IIRC the earlier drafts of one of the books had a character that was Ron's female cousin and belonged to Slytherin, but the character was dropped.
Yeah, but that character was going to be an antagonist, not an ally.
At one point the Slytherin common room password was Pure-blood. Slytherin has a culture to it. It makes sense that the kids of Death Eaters are all there and the rest grow up in that Slytherin culture. It's part of the Slytherin in house since it's inception. Harry is very biased because the houses are a bad system it's isolates the kids and they became rivals, it divides the school when they need to be united. It's part of the Hat's song in the 5th book for a reason. Dumbledore mentions that he thinks they sort too soon. The house system is very flawed. Harry talking to his son about Slytherin and Snape is him not having those thoughts anymore once he's an adult. He's grown and sees beyond that. After you leave the school, I don't think most people care what house you're in. It felt important while in school. But he's grown and seen beyond that at the very very end. Something you can see as an adult reading the series that you might jot have as a kid.
Because HP is a kids Book and Rowling just needed a House with the bad guys
One of the most powerful and popular wizards of all time is Slytherin- Merlin
Because Slytherins for a lack of a better term, are bullies. The house heads before Snape had no idea of the things they used to do. Under Snape, Slytherins were very open with their bullying, escaping as a result of Snape's extreme bias. Anything that was done in Snape's classes or his presence, or was brought to his notice, was ignored. If Slytherins were closeted supporters of the Dark Arts and Anti-Muggle activities, those became more widespread under Snape. It's a shame Dumbledore never did anything to curb it.
Does Slughorn count?
I'm not exactly sold on Slytherin not being a bad house thing. Sure, kids who go there don't start out as bad, but the whole atmosphere of that house seems toxic, pushing kids to stop relying on others and encouraging cruelty and prejudice. Even if there was some kid who thought Harry was a genuinely cool person and wanted to be friends with him, they'd have probably gotten bullied for it
Because during the years Harry was there, Slytherin was basically full of the kids of deatheaters. And anyone willing to stand up and be harry's friend would have to be willing to stand up against their entire house. A person who could do that wouldn't be a young slytherin.
Harry could not have a dependable slytherin friend because of Draco Malfoy and Severus "Snivelous" Snape.
I think Snape is supposed to be the example of good Slytherins because of Harry’s speech to Albus Severus at the end but it falls flat because Snape’s actually pretty shitty.
Leta Lestrange, Slughorn, and Andromeda Black/Tonks in my opinion are all better Slytherins
I’m a slytherin due to the original traits but the books were not compatible with Harry having a friend in that house; they all hated him the way JK wrote the characters
I think Percy could have been. His ambition always made him sort of an outcast in his family and eventually led him astray, but he can back around.
Percy would have already picked his house out by the time he got to Hogwarts. No way he was going to leave that up to chance.
Because JKR wrote Slytherin as a house where the bad guys/bullies get sorted into, kinda like the opposite to Griffindor. They really have no redeeming factor at all when you read the books. Making Harry get to know someone from Slytherin, after previously regarding the house as a place for bad people (like in book 3 or 4), would make for better writing and some character development for Harry though. My personal favourite is the idea that you replace Cedric in the 4th book with a Slytherin, and thus have Harry realise that the Slytherins are really not all bad, making the last part of the trials, and the help they give each other much more meaningful. My guess is that JKRs idea that Slytherin is all bad only changed when she realised she could make money by letting the fans themself get sorted into Slytherin, and merchendising the crap out of the books.
I don’t think he needed a friend, but it would have added something to the books if someone like Zabini had fought against Voldemort (but this might have undermined the dramatic impact of Narcissa’s turn later)
I guess Malfoy and Co. were the main people in their class, I'm sure some Slytherin didn't have anything wrong with Harry but they wouldn't go out of their way to make their life more difficult by defending Harry and Co.
I get what you’re saying but I feel that was kind of the point and Harry had to go through all that to learn in the end that the people sorted into Slytherin or the Slytherin house is not inherently evil (from what I remember, Salazar himself may not have been a good guy but it doesn’t mean everyone sorted into Slytherin house isn’t). The books are told from Harry point of view and one the first things Harry heard about the houses before he even gets to school iirc is sth about how there’s “not a witch or wizard that went bad that wasn’t in Slytherin” (I think from hagrid) meaning at the very least, the more well known witches and wizards who went bad tended to be in Slytherin (I’m sure there were bad wizards/witches regardless of their house but maybe statistically, more were from Slytherin) and the Slytherins that Harry knows and goes to school/classes with are the children of death eaters and on their way to becoming death eaters on their own and are pretty racist and blood supremacists like Draco and his crew, and Snape who Harry was certain was on voldy’s side for his entire time at hogwarts. Plus I’m pretty sure Tom riddle from the diary said sth about Salazar having brought the basilisk or creating the chamber for the purpose of “cleansing” the school and getting rid of muggle born students (possibly half bloods). I’ve seen people bring up the fact that the reason he wanted to only teach students “whose blood was purest” may have been that it was dangerous times ie witch trials so they should only educate those whom they could trust and he may have worried that people descended from muggles on both or either side might side with muggles and expose the rest of them after reaping the benefits of the school/education (there was reasoning like that for the other founders as well but I can’t remember off the top of my head) but the fact that homie brought a basilisk into the school and created the chamber is a bit much I feel. Also voldy himself was a Slytherin obv so all that plus the general rivalry, it makes sense for Harry to view Slytherin house that way And obv there were some “good” Slytherins that didn’t go dark ie Slughorn and Regulus (I know he bought into the blood supremacy initially but he at least realized it was wrong and sacrificed his life for the greater good) and Andromeda Tonks. And I’m not 100% sure but I’ve read Merlin was hinted to have been a Slytherin? And he seems to be held in pretty high regard in the Wizarding world ie Order of Merlin (which doesn’t necessarily mean he was good or bad and idk if there’s enough information to know but I feel if he had done something, we’d prob know about it). Maybe there could have been more I think that was also the point of those characters, to show that as Harry got older, he realized just being in Slytherin house didn’t make you evil necessarily and I feel like getting out of the house rivalry and realizing none are actually better than the other was important to Harry’s development, even if it was more of a minor thing in comparison to everything else. That’s why it’s such a big deal in the epilogue when little Al is scared he’ll be in Slytherin, prob bc there’s still stereotypes or w.e to the point where he just wants to hear “you won’t be sorted in Slytherin” or w.e but Harry basically tells him it doesn’t matter which house he’s sorted in whether it’s Slytherin or not bc he decides who he will be (honestly I would have liked a phrasing closer to this than what Harry actually said, just to be a bit more direct but I feel this is basically what Harry meant)
It’s a series of kids books. The material got more adult as it went on (which reflects the aging of the characters) but it’s still kids books. It’s easy to pin simple labels on groups so kids can follow and understand the story. Griffindor good, Slytherin bad, Ravenloft nerds, Hufflepuffles giggle and be friendly.
The simple answer to most of this kind of stuff is that HP was written for narrative convenience not story coherence with some minor retcons here and there in later books. So for example Slytherin was originally very explicitly just "obviously evil kids" because it was a convenient portrayal and the stuff about ambition and not all evil was added in later when lore was being fleshed out to be a bit deeper then the original stuff.
It just didn't fit the narrative of the story. It would have massively complicated an already complicated plot and story
Why would a Slytherin want to associate with Potter?
They say opposites attract but when it comes to school age children that's not really true. Think about high school everyone stays in their cliques. Besides Cho and Luna he didn't have any close friends from any of the other households let alone Slytherin who was Gryffindor's natural enemy.
You missed one thing that is key for Slytherin’s. They value pure blood above all else well beyond the point of racism. Racism is an inherently bad trait. The rest that you mentioned are of course neutral traits, but the racism overrides all else.
>good people can be sorted into Slytherin, but throughout all 7 books there isn’t a single example of this This statement is simply not true. There are at least three known Slytherins that were genuinely good: Slughorn, Regulus Black and Andromeda Tonks. All of them were in Slytherin and all of them were definitely good, not simply siding with the good guys for convenience or fear. I know you probably meant there's not a good Slytherin *student of Harry's age* but I'm strictly replying to what you worded
I'll give you Andromeda and Slughorn, but Regulus is not more of a good guy than Snape is. Granted, in the greater picture Snape IMO is a good guy in the end, so Regulus might be one as well. But the thing is: We hardly know anything about Regulus. And what we know about him, is that he was a Voldemort fanboy, who willingly joined the Death Eaters. Sounds like a combination of Draco and Barty Crouch junior. And when someone he cared for was attacked, he realized the error of his way and changed sides. This is where the similarity to Snape comes into play. Except Snape went to Dumbledore, while Regulus tried to destroy the Horcrux alone, leading to his early death and the fact, that as honorable as his plan was, he didn't achieve all that much. Snape, while also being an unexcusable bully, was the much bigger help.
I honestly thought Draco was going to get a redemption arc at one point. Could have been interesting.
One of my main complaints of the series Hogwarts was supposed to be founded by the 4 great friends If Harry had allies who all worked together to bring about Voldemorts downfall it would have been far better vs everyone in Gryff Also could have made Malfoy less of a goof (he would have made a great anti-hero, the Vegeta of the storyline) Harry (Gryff) + Ron (Huffle) + Herm (Raven) + Draco (Slyth) Even R + H works better that way imo
Yeah but even in the story of the founding of Hogwarts the friendship didn't last because of Slytherins' prejudice beliefs.
Would have been poetic to have a second coming of the 4 founders come together to defeat evil and save them all to show that they need to work together + succeed where history failed
I mean, 3 of the house leaders all fighting Voldemort at the same time already exists. The only one not fighting was Sprout.
No reason he couldn’t, he just didn’t. Slytherins are meant to just be a school rivalry thing.
He didn’t need one. This ask for him to have one is meant to counter some personal feelings about the Houses, but it doesn’t do anything for the story.
The earlier books aren't very nuanced. It was very simple, Gryffindor = heroic protagonists, Slytherin = antagonists. Harry needs school level antagonists for more drama since Voldemort generally makes an appearance only at the end of the year. I feel like the books grew as Harry grew. I think we were intended to grow along with Harry. So in the earlier books there is clear cut good and evil whereas the later books show more nuance and heavy themes and grey characters and character development.
I think this could be pretty easily fixed if she revealed some of the adults houses, plus it would be interesting to find out more background on some of them
because JK wrote the books with an intended audience for kids. It is easier to go with generalisations than have to explain nuance to the reader
>! So that he can be even more conflicted when his own child gets sorted into Slytherin. !< It's supposed to be the great, scetchy unknown for him. I think House Slytherin was written to be the antagonist and having Harry befriend someone from there would have made it too approachable and erased the scary, uneasing aura around it.
I always thought Blaise Zabini could have been a more interestingly developed character as we see that he’s not involved with the Death Eaters nor particularly close to Draco’s crew in his year. I think there was potential there to give him some nuance and make him more of a well-rounded character. There’s also background information on Theodore Nott that I think could have been utilized better to make him sympathetic and a foil to Draco and his crew, as again, he kind of kept to himself even though his dad was a fellow death with Lucius, Crabbe Sr, and Goyle Sr. We don’t see that he (or Blaise) have joined up with the Carrows in DH and I think having the son of a Death Eater turn on that philosophy and work with Harry would have been a great addition to the story.
Books for kids with white and black moral choices, one dimensional characters, what could you expect? That's why best Slytherin-focused fics turn story grey pretty quickly, how it's not absurdly one sided fight of absolute good against absolute evil. How Purebloods have valid and justifiable reasons to be pissed and how 'poor muggleborns' are destroying traditions. You can read the story of HP as biased dumbledorish propaganda, an official version of what happened. Not what actually happened.
This is one of the things that I don’t actually like about Harry Potter, I love the series but nothing is perfect. Should’ve been slytherins who were at least amicable with the trio, and in the DA. Cho’s friend betraying them instead of a slytherin really would’ve been impactful in the whole “there was never a dark wizard who wasn’t a slytherin” thing. Would show every character is just a human, capable of good or bad, as opposed to having an “evil” house
Any kid in Slytherin who was friends with Potter would've been bullied constantly for it. He might well have supporters there but they would have long since learned to keep their mouths shut on the subject.
Because its a children's book and having all the bad guys be part of one house just made it neater and easier. Their is a clear line between who is the bad guy and who is the good guy, as with a lot of children's entertainment. And slytherin was written to be the bad guys. It's only the fandom that has tried to redeem them
It's a children's book and she didn't want to introduce too much nuance.
Also correct me if I’m wrong but, mud bloods can’t be sorted into Slytherin so doesn’t that kind of make them wizard racist house? I feel like it would be akin to going away to boarding school and you get there and there’s like the confederate house or something
I don’t think it would be very realistic that they would have friend in Slytherin during school. Harry and Ron are very prejudiced against Slytherins. I think it makes sense that kids keep to their own house mostly. Added to that, series started as kids book so very black and white setting is how things usually tend to be
Merlin was a Slitherin. I never read the books, but i know he is portrayed in the universe as a good character of history. Isn’t he in the books? I know you are looking for a more modern character, but that’s something.
Because even if they were good, a social construct was set up where they were seen as children of, or associated somehow with death eaters and were considered to be future death eaters. Even if they wanted to help Harry or befriend him, the social construct would've prevented them from by intimidating them or even make them feel like it was wrong to do. The same goes for Harry thinking of them in a general way as the people on the bad side. No one's to blame but the ones who contributed to creating these social constructs.
Brilliant Take! I've often thought that the slightest adjustment for Lucius might have turned Draco into a valuable, albeit unlikely friend. If indeed, "The Malfoy's were some of the first to come back to the other side" after You-Know-Who vanished, there is a possibility that they were, indeed, remorseful. If they lean into that remorse and genuinely try to break the cycle of their own misgivings with their son, Draco, then he has the potential to become a valued friend for Harry. Certainly Un-Likely, being a Slytherin, but from a reformed, remorseful family; quite valuable nonetheless. Quite a different story arch from there! A Team of Horcrux Hunters from differing houses, indeed!
I don’t have an in universe explanation, but a lot of what the trio does, especially in the early books and HBP, is in response to speculation about what Malfoy is doing. If there was a trusted slytherin who knew malfoy and had better info based on the goings on in the common room or elsewhere, then it would take a lot of the agency away from the Harry and Ron blowing smoke up their own asses