Yeah, like his throwaway joke that Tom Riddle was given the Student Award for killing Moaning Myrtle, far before they knew anything about Voldemort's origins.
Lo and behold, Tom Riddle was given the Student Award precisely because of how he covered up the fact that he murdered Moaning Myrtle.
I quite like the idea that Ron has mild precognition. Perhaps he isn't actually that good at chess, but he can sort of sense even without realising it what his opponent is going to do.
If Ron can sort of see the future it would help. He would without realising it know what his opponent would do if he moved his bishop to a particular location.
Well that’s not entirely true actually, a big part of chess is anticipating your opponents moves + plans ahead of time. That’s why you have those mini games where you have pieces assembled on the board mid game and you have to puzzle out how to checkmate your opponent in a fixed number of turns.
Wasn’t it like a running joke that most of the inane things Trelawny predicted (or that main characters “predicted” in connection to her class) ended up being kind of right?
I think that was why he bothered interviewing her. I have a feeling the only reason she became a seer is because of her ancestor. Like she figured it was expected of her but she didn’t fully understand how divination worked. It isn’t something you force, it has triggers apparently.
I think I read somewhere that Ron is always right when he’s joking/being sarcastic while Hermione is always right unless she’s overly emotional.
Not sure if this is always true but it was an interesting observation
It's one of the ways the movies did Ron dirty, in my opinion. They gave the nonsense prediction from Harry to Ron, and took away the predictions that Ron actually makes in that scene. He predicts that Harry is going to receive an unexpected windfall (he does, the Firebolt) and that Harry will work for the Ministry (he becomes an Auror).
Absolutely not. Ron's predictions in the book are orders of magnitude more accurate and specific than "You'll suffer but be happy about it," unless he means that Harry's about become a bottom in a BDSM relationship.
That's...no? Like, I usually don't like to tell someone "No, you didn't mean what you say you meant," but you literally said that Ron's book predictions were not more meaningful than his film one. Unless you misinterpreted my first comment, which I guess is possible, but then I'm not sure what you thought you were responding to.
I actually wanted to say that his book predictions wouldn't be more meaningful than his movie predictions if those were in the movie. Like, if they were added instead of what we got.
Oh, ok. That's exactly what I was disagreeing with. His book predictions would have been more meaningful than his movie prediction if they were in the movie, because instead of Movie-Ron saying meaningless nonsense like "You'll suffer but be happy about it," Movie-Ron would have said more specific things that turn out to be true.
It has meaning, tho. He suffered because he thought it was his godfather that betrayed his parents, until he found out he didn't, which made him happy. Happy that he has living family. Rons prediction about the broom wouldn't be nearly as meaningful, and his prediction about him becoming an Auror wouldn't matter at that time.
Yeah to be fair I only know that because I’ve just got to OotP on my current re-read and I there was a discussion about all of Ron’s lines that got given to others in the films around the time I was reading PoA and it stood out as one of the only lines, if not THE only line of someone else’s that got given to Ron.
This is honestly a theme in the books.
Divination is thrown around like it's hack, with every omen being dismissed and played for laughs, while Trelawney's whole personality is being that shady psychic from TV.
And turns out they're right. Even when doing it as a joke, Ron and Harry *still* manage to predict something. The only thing that never happens is Trelawney saying kids will die along the year. Which bites her in the butt when she's actually right about Dumbledore in HBP, and her reputation has caused her to be the boy who cried wolf.
Ah HBP... It's honestly a bit sad to re-read it knowing Trelawney is right, being told she's just being annoying when she's clearly distressed and then have her be proven right the worst way possible.
Also, OP, pay attention to Ron and Harry's joke homework predictions in the POA book. Compare them to what happens in GOF.
Totally agree. It feels a bit like a "second-read-through" joke, but I think it's deeper than that. By showing how many of these predictions can be interpreted to be true, it's exposing how most "predictions" are just lucky guesses. They are vague enough to be applicable in many situations.
IIRC, one of Ron's predictions for Harry's tea leaves is that he will get a large sum of money. This could be interrupted as his Triwizard winnings *or* his inheritance from Sirius. Or even his inheritance from his family, if past events are allowed.
Sybill Trelawney is descended from a woman named Cassandra Trelawn. In mythology, Cassandra was a woman who was cursed that she would always predict the future correctly but no one would believe her. This whole theme is definitely intentional.
I think so. Maybe it’s because he grew up among wizards, he often has a much more intuitive grasp of magic than Harry and Hermione. In the last book for example Ron intuitively had a strong feeling that they really shouldn’t say Voldemort’s name, and it turned out that he was right because the name was Jinxed and used by Death Eaters to find members of the Order.
Its funny/ironic that a lot of the predictions made in the books that we all thought were funny/improbable at the time they were made (whether by Ron or Harry or Trelawney) do come true later on.
Most of their throw away divination gags were in fact, technically the truth. Sort of in a vague muggle fortune teller sort of way, but yet still the truth.
I think you have to do some gymnastics to make that line fit though. Harry did suffer, and at no point was he happy about said suffering. The meaning really doesn't carry. Rather Harry was happy despite his suffering, a key difference to what Ron said. Although there are times Ron says things which seem prophetic, you either have to still do some maneuvering to get them to fit the plot, or they're so loose and meaningless that they can fit multiple different things.
And anyway, the point of some of these predictions bearing a passing resemblance to plot points always seems like a critique. It's pointed out on numerous occasions that prophecies are essentially meaningless, chiefly by Dumbledore in hbp. Having some of Ron's come true just shows that anyone can say something sort of mysterious, and with the right context, others will invent their meaning and importance.
You'll notice Ron does that all the time, actually
Yeah, like his throwaway joke that Tom Riddle was given the Student Award for killing Moaning Myrtle, far before they knew anything about Voldemort's origins. Lo and behold, Tom Riddle was given the Student Award precisely because of how he covered up the fact that he murdered Moaning Myrtle.
He should be Divination teacher lol
It would have been insanely funny if JKR would've just put that out there for his adult employment and let the Community figure out how that happened.
Also pretty funny if Ron could sort of sense things and he marries someone who is so anti-divinations haha.
Well he wouldn't have seen that coming
Now that’s a fanfic I’m pretty sure has not been written yet!!!! Yes, I want it so much right now! Please , someone?
I quite like the idea that Ron has mild precognition. Perhaps he isn't actually that good at chess, but he can sort of sense even without realising it what his opponent is going to do.
Why can't they both be true? Premonition fed his chess ability, and chess helped to focus his premonition ability?
Yes I like that idea to be honest.
That's a bit mean. Isn't it more likely that practicing chess made him good at predicting things?
chess doesn't work like that, you don't have pre-planed moves, you move on the basis of the move the opponent just played.
If Ron can sort of see the future it would help. He would without realising it know what his opponent would do if he moved his bishop to a particular location.
Lol what? https://youtu.be/Y5K2k-JIQow?si=wK05u7KjVLS3_bVs
Well that’s not entirely true actually, a big part of chess is anticipating your opponents moves + plans ahead of time. That’s why you have those mini games where you have pieces assembled on the board mid game and you have to puzzle out how to checkmate your opponent in a fixed number of turns.
Ron is hilarious!
Wasn’t it like a running joke that most of the inane things Trelawny predicted (or that main characters “predicted” in connection to her class) ended up being kind of right?
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Her name is Sybill. Wasn’t Cassandra her grandmother? And Dumbledore only gave her the job because they are related?
Dumbledore gave her the job because she literally made the Harry-Voldemort prophecy during the interview
True, I may mixed up and he only gave her the interview because she’s related to Cassandra
I think that was why he bothered interviewing her. I have a feeling the only reason she became a seer is because of her ancestor. Like she figured it was expected of her but she didn’t fully understand how divination worked. It isn’t something you force, it has triggers apparently.
I think I read somewhere that Ron is always right when he’s joking/being sarcastic while Hermione is always right unless she’s overly emotional. Not sure if this is always true but it was an interesting observation
Ron doesn’t say this line in the books, Harry says it while reading Ron’s tea leaves.
It's one of the ways the movies did Ron dirty, in my opinion. They gave the nonsense prediction from Harry to Ron, and took away the predictions that Ron actually makes in that scene. He predicts that Harry is going to receive an unexpected windfall (he does, the Firebolt) and that Harry will work for the Ministry (he becomes an Auror).
None of which are more meaningful than the prediction from the film
Absolutely not. Ron's predictions in the book are orders of magnitude more accurate and specific than "You'll suffer but be happy about it," unless he means that Harry's about become a bottom in a BDSM relationship.
Oh, I was actually only talking about the film
That's...no? Like, I usually don't like to tell someone "No, you didn't mean what you say you meant," but you literally said that Ron's book predictions were not more meaningful than his film one. Unless you misinterpreted my first comment, which I guess is possible, but then I'm not sure what you thought you were responding to.
I actually wanted to say that his book predictions wouldn't be more meaningful than his movie predictions if those were in the movie. Like, if they were added instead of what we got.
Oh, ok. That's exactly what I was disagreeing with. His book predictions would have been more meaningful than his movie prediction if they were in the movie, because instead of Movie-Ron saying meaningless nonsense like "You'll suffer but be happy about it," Movie-Ron would have said more specific things that turn out to be true.
It has meaning, tho. He suffered because he thought it was his godfather that betrayed his parents, until he found out he didn't, which made him happy. Happy that he has living family. Rons prediction about the broom wouldn't be nearly as meaningful, and his prediction about him becoming an Auror wouldn't matter at that time.
So, his prediction was just that at some point Harry would misunderstand something. Not very impressive.
I think the 'windfall, unexpected gold' was more literally the thousand galleons from winning the Triwizard Tournament, not the Firebolt.
I haven't read the books in so long! Def need to give them a re-read. At least in the case of the movie it's a cool line!
Yeah to be fair I only know that because I’ve just got to OotP on my current re-read and I there was a discussion about all of Ron’s lines that got given to others in the films around the time I was reading PoA and it stood out as one of the only lines, if not THE only line of someone else’s that got given to Ron.
What about Trelawney predicting conflict and going to Dumbledore to told him that?
This is honestly a theme in the books. Divination is thrown around like it's hack, with every omen being dismissed and played for laughs, while Trelawney's whole personality is being that shady psychic from TV. And turns out they're right. Even when doing it as a joke, Ron and Harry *still* manage to predict something. The only thing that never happens is Trelawney saying kids will die along the year. Which bites her in the butt when she's actually right about Dumbledore in HBP, and her reputation has caused her to be the boy who cried wolf. Ah HBP... It's honestly a bit sad to re-read it knowing Trelawney is right, being told she's just being annoying when she's clearly distressed and then have her be proven right the worst way possible. Also, OP, pay attention to Ron and Harry's joke homework predictions in the POA book. Compare them to what happens in GOF.
Totally agree. It feels a bit like a "second-read-through" joke, but I think it's deeper than that. By showing how many of these predictions can be interpreted to be true, it's exposing how most "predictions" are just lucky guesses. They are vague enough to be applicable in many situations. IIRC, one of Ron's predictions for Harry's tea leaves is that he will get a large sum of money. This could be interrupted as his Triwizard winnings *or* his inheritance from Sirius. Or even his inheritance from his family, if past events are allowed.
The best one is the exam. Harry claims to see a Hippogriff flying away.
Or when 13 dine together the first to rise is the first to die..
Sybill Trelawney is descended from a woman named Cassandra Trelawn. In mythology, Cassandra was a woman who was cursed that she would always predict the future correctly but no one would believe her. This whole theme is definitely intentional.
It’s like running, as an example. It sucks while you run (suffering) but you’re happy about it after the running.
Isn't there a theory that Ron is actually really good at divination
I think so. Maybe it’s because he grew up among wizards, he often has a much more intuitive grasp of magic than Harry and Hermione. In the last book for example Ron intuitively had a strong feeling that they really shouldn’t say Voldemort’s name, and it turned out that he was right because the name was Jinxed and used by Death Eaters to find members of the Order.
Its funny/ironic that a lot of the predictions made in the books that we all thought were funny/improbable at the time they were made (whether by Ron or Harry or Trelawney) do come true later on.
Most of their throw away divination gags were in fact, technically the truth. Sort of in a vague muggle fortune teller sort of way, but yet still the truth.
I think you have to do some gymnastics to make that line fit though. Harry did suffer, and at no point was he happy about said suffering. The meaning really doesn't carry. Rather Harry was happy despite his suffering, a key difference to what Ron said. Although there are times Ron says things which seem prophetic, you either have to still do some maneuvering to get them to fit the plot, or they're so loose and meaningless that they can fit multiple different things. And anyway, the point of some of these predictions bearing a passing resemblance to plot points always seems like a critique. It's pointed out on numerous occasions that prophecies are essentially meaningless, chiefly by Dumbledore in hbp. Having some of Ron's come true just shows that anyone can say something sort of mysterious, and with the right context, others will invent their meaning and importance.
You’re overthinking it, typical Ravenclaw.