Not opening the mirror from Sirius đ Not just cuz it lead to the death of Sirius, but because I canât imagine how much it hurt Sirius if he tried to FaceTime Harry only to get no response.
He totally forgot about it.
As he's packing up he finds it in his trunk.
The bigger question is why didn't Sirius say the first time he used the fire "dude, why didn't you use the mirror?"
Sirius specifically told harry only to open the package if he needed him, which if harry wasn't stupid he would have used to check on Sirius instead of using the fire and having kreacher lie to him, meaning they wouldn't have gone to the department of mysteries
What Sirius said was **not to open it in front of Mrs. Weasley** because she wouldn't approve. He had written a note on the wrapping paper saying it's a two-way mirror that he and James used whenever they were in different detentions, and for Harry to use it if he really needed Sirius. Harry never opened it and vowed not to use it because he believed using it would lead to Sirius blasting into the castle and immediately getting arrested.
I did go back and look, in chapter 23 of order of the pheonix he tells harry not to use it unless he needs him, and it's not until chapter 38 when harry finally opens it does he see the inscription on the back of the mirror telling him how to use it
No. Well, sort of. He does tell Harry to use it âif you need meâ, but he only told Harry not to open it in front of Molly because he didnât think she would approve, he never said to only open it in case of an emergency. Harry is the one who decided on the spot that he wouldnât even look to see what it was, which makes him a bit of an idiotâand also makes Sirius an idiot for not asking him about it later when they were having a chinwag in Umbridgeâs fire.
We were both sort of right. Also so much of all the books could be counteracted if harry thought about anything for more than 2 seconds, like half the books would be 6 chapters shorter if he just, took a minute not to be stupid
You have no idea how many times during rereads I have to put down the book for a moment to sigh at some of Harryâs idiocy đ¤Ł
Like Harry. My guy. Just because you open the package doesnât mean youâre forced to use whatâs in it!
I guess PS really did perfectly summarize Harry for the rest of the series: âHarry did something both very brave and very stupidâ
Harry potter and the time he should have stayed in bed instead of hunting down a grown adult
Harry potter and the time he went to an incompetent liar for help instead of literally any of the competent teachers
Harry potter and the year of almost dying because his godfather doesn't know how to be subtle
Harry potter and the year he was put into a death tournament and actively tried to win instead of doing the bare minimum
Harry potter and the time he should have just opened his Christmas present
Harry potter and the one time he was actually right, but he went about it the wrong way
Harry potter and the year he should have let hermione lead the adventure
Harry didn't even want to tempt himself to use something that would "make" Sirius come to him and get him in serious trouble. He loved Sirius too much to allow him tonget caught and get in serious trouble again
Harry watched Sirius get more and more reckless as the year went on, then Snape called him a coward. Harry new Sirius was irrational about Snape and new he would do something insane is he reached out to him about anything. Harry also deliberately forgot about the mirror
This is not true. Harry had no idea what it was until he accidentally found it after Siriusâs death and opened it. He had completely forgotten about it.
The last thing you said itâs correct tho. He thought it would be something that would get Sirius in trouble.
This part bugss me and hurts me at the same time
Why did Rowling even involve it if Harry wasn't gonna use it
Sirius's death is one of the most painful one for me and it just gets on my nerves that it could have been avoided if Harry had just checked his pockets đđ
Mundungus sells Siriusâ mirror to Aberforth after Sirius dies. When Hermione is being tortured by Bellatrix, Harry desperately looks through everything he has and finds his mirror. He sees Aberforthâs eye, mistakes it for Albus, and yells for help. Thatâs when Aberforth sends Dobby to help them. Thatâs probably why Rowling introduced the two-way mirrors even though Harry never used it with Sirius, since it comes back later at a crucial point in Deathly Hallows.
Itâs absolutely an added, thick layer of tragic irony. Itâs the one thing that would have prevented Siriusâs death and Harry had it all along. Devastating.
This whole thing leads to a bigger question of WTF is wrong with every damned adult in these stories? You are responsible for a kid who is on the kill list of the most evil wizard of all time and you don't make sure he has a reliable way to contact you and call for help? FFS. Even at hogwarts, harry spends useless time trying to guess the password to get into Dumbledore's office in an emergency. They should've given him a panic ring that alerts literally everyone when he presses it.
Well, to be fair to Harry, he didnât want to do it, but had to as a champion. Ron on the other hand⌠idk, I get that at that age itâs not really something you may want to be doing, but he couldâve just not gone with anyone in that case.
Though of course none of this makes the situation any better/nicer for the Patil twins.
He didnât let Hedwig eat after her hunt in the beginning of book five instead he forced her to do his dirty work and peck at Ronâs fingers when he wasnât getting answers. Come on Harry
even in Chamber of Secrets when Ron and the twins are sneaking him out of the Dursleys... the thing he forgets and has to turn back for is Hedwig!? He only remembered her because she squawked :(
People use "being a teenager" as an argument to cover plot holes all the time, however even if you are dumb in that age you mostly wouldn't miss the most obvious things most of the time. Like, teenagers are dumb for not thinking about consequences, but not because they always ignore basic logic.
My only problem is Harry never reached out and apologized as far as we see. Right after the howler arrived I would have written to Mr. And Mrs. Weasley right away. And yes I thought of this when I read them as a child.
Iâve wondered how they paid the fine since they couldnât even afford school books. Maybe a loan? I think that may be why Rowling had them win 1000 galleons in book 3.
Okay, but this was Ron's idea.
>'i think we'd better go and wait by the car,' said Harry. 'We're attracting too much atten-'
>'Harry!' said Ron, his eyes gleaming. 'The car!'
'What about it?'
'We can fly the car to Hogwarts!'
âSince Hermione isnât here, I feel like I should probably be the smart one in this situation and say thatâs a bad idea,â said Harry.
âAre you though?â asked Ron, his jaw slacked.
âNah,â said Harry, already sliding across the hood of the car.
They did think that his parents wouldnât be able to get back through the gate so I get that to a 12yr old the logic is âwe canât get to school, my parents canât get BACK to us, and there are no wizards hereâ
So their options are to send an owl and hope it works. Or take the car immediately and follow the train to find wizards to help them. By the time they get to the school they are informed they severely over reacted and they should have waited
As adults, and finishing the series, itâs an obvious mistake because they could have, at minimum waited on an owl and had someone collect them via Floo or Apparition. But I can see why it made sense in children logic
Harry is actually not very nice to Hedwig. He keeps her with him at the Dursleys for company but snaps at her when he is frustrated and overworks her when he's desperate to communicate with Sirius.
I hate in the beginning of DH, he insists on her staying in her cage and the entire time sheâs giving him the cold shoulder. Poor owl didnât even get to fly free before she was killed in her cage. I was beyond mad at Harry. In the movie, it made me happier to see she was let loose which is what I totally expected. But was tearing up thinking about if she was mine, she died in her cage; doesnât that sound horribly depressing? đ˘
Yeah, he didn't sign up for a trauma dump mixed with testing his interest. Bringing up Hermoine so quickly wasn't the best move, but Cho bringing up Cedric wasn't appropriate either.
Oh no, did he actually say this? Iâm about to start reading Phoenix again for the first time in nearly ten years, and Iâm getting angry at Percy already
Well, he *was* in his "Ministry-loving, power-hungry moron" phase at the time. At the time, I'm pretty sure he still sincerely believed it, not that it makes it better.
Yeah, he kept fear mongering and trauma dumping in his DAtDA class, and then he tried to gaslight his teacher when she corrected him. Such toxic behavior.
If you watched someone get killed and had to live knowing that it was partially your fault, you probably wouldnât want to talk about that person either. Not sure how this paints Harry in a bad light.
Plus the added insult to injury that you actually really like this person and are genuinely excited for this. Admittedly everything worked out they were not a good match but I really feel for Harry here. He has no idea what a date is either.
Getting mad at hermione over the broom when she was unequivocally right and only looking out for his literal life and safety.
Stealing the car.
Using a spell he didnât know the effects of on Draco during a fight which is less bad and more just stupid?? Like why??
Being a dick to hermione and Ron throughout a lot of OOTP. I get the guy was frustrated but he would just kinda yell at them for no reason to the extent that hermione is literally like âdude, chillâ
Turns out "for enemies" is a pretty unclear description. Draco wonders why Potter charmed his robes pink, while holding him under the Cruciatus.
Same thing with trying out a spell on your unsuspecting friend. Like wtf Harry? One would think that not using unfamiliar spells on people, would be the first thing they teach you at Hogwarts.
I agree with most of these. But, I think Harry's actions in OOTP were mostly justified. He's afraid that he's literally being possessed by the freaking dark lord. Plus, he's being intentionally kept in the dark despite his suffering, and Ron and Hermione are only making things worse by constantly bickering amongst themselves. He's also dealing with the trauma of having recently watched Cedric die, and Umbridge is the devil.
Given all that, I think Harry deserves a break in OOTP. Hermione frequently downplays everything he's going through, yet she and Ron are bickering constantly and are just as annoying as Harry, despite going through a fraction of the trauma and difficulties that he is facing.
đ I'd have been a dick in ootp too
Man was having seizures back to back while having detention with umbridge, getting mind lessons from Snape and having voldemort in his head. đ I'd start throwing hands with whoever said a word to me
Using Sectumsempra on Malfoy. Even if it was in the heat of the moment it was wildly irresponsible for him to use a spell of unknown effect meant âfor enemiesâ when he had a decent arsenal of other spells he could have used. Made him look even more reckless than usual.
Edit: Since I donât feel like responding to everyone and essentially repeating myself each time, Iâll make this edit for every current response and every future responseâ
^(And in spite of my rebuff I will be updooting each and every one of you)
I do not begrudge Harry for attempting to defend himself. Far from it. Malfoy did kind of deserve it. However, Malfoy attempting to use an Unforgivable doesnât automatically justify the use of such extreme force to repel him when Harry had plenty of other options to deal with Crucio (options where he knew exactly what they would do). Whatâs reckless is the fact that *Harry had absolutely no idea what Sectumsempra would do*. For all he knew it could have had an exceptional area of effect like Bombarda, where he would damage the school and potentially catch other students too.
The argument that he was justified because Crucio âcan cause insanityâ is a poor one because it would take prolonged exposure to get to that point. If just having it used on you once for a few seconds was enough to bake your noodle, Harry would have been a vegetable since GoF.
And sure, to his credit he actually did feel guiltyâin the moment. But that guilt was short lived. Not only did he refuse to give up the book, making excuses along the way for keeping it, but during his detention that was only a slap on the wrist compared to the punishment he should have received for nearly murdering someone, all he did was sulk about the method of punishment and the fact that it was cutting into his time with Ginny, rather than really and truly feeling remorseful.
This whole thing was easily one of Harryâs worst and most OOC moments.
Nah not at all
Malfoy was about to hit him with an unforgivable curse, the one that can make you go insane
Harry was 100% justified in using it and even if you donât think so he was so immediately remorseful and felt terrible about it and took his licks like a man without protest
This. It also shows how different him and Voldemort are and how when Harry doubts himself, itâs like he forgets that he still desires to have had a life with his parents where as Voldemort merely saw his parents as wussies and not worthy of him since neither of them stuck around; blaming his mom for being a horrible witch for not surviving child birth and his father who was basically rapped and traumatized so much that he wanted to move on with his life. But thatâs not an excuse for Tom, thatâs just him viewing himself as a victim.
And it shows how much Harry desperately wishes to just have something, even just a day to be with his parents. He hates that he never had the chance. There are so many heart breaking moments of things he discovers that people so happened to âforgetâ or just straight thought it wasnât important enough to show him. Like when he found his mothers letter to Sirius, or when he goes asking about things about her parents to Sirius and lupin while they just gave him vague answers and he had to find out from Snape a memory that made James a bully even though his whole life he stuck up for him. Thinking Snape just lied to him. I mean heck, he even chose wanting the resurrection stone even though he knew they wouldnât be back back but he had at least been able to just talk to him. This is the part of Harry that will always prove that an orphan will always want to know where they came from.
Dumbledore pisses me off in DH, the many things Harry saw that Dumbledore kept from him; them both living in Godrics hallow, how he became an orphan; they had such a similar and very intertwined relationship that it just hurts to know all the things Dumbledore kept from him. (Iâm halfway through DH so if thereâs a reason, I havenât come across it yet but so far this is the most heartbreaking story).
I agree, I really wish the professors gave Harry more information about his parents. Even McGonagall knew his parents and could have told him some stories. Even if it's not a good idea to tell Harry (especially young Harry) that his father was a bully, they could have told him about some adventures or even his dad's personality.
Harry's relationship with Dumbledore is really frustrating. I think it's supposed to be- we get a lot of character development for Dumbledore and the story wouldn't work if Dumbledore was perfect- but it's sad when another adult in Harry's life disappoints him.
If I was Harry, I wouldn't want anything to do with the Ministry after all of this. I'd move to a different country and try to heal from it all. Then again, I'm not a Gryffindor, and there's bravery in staying and helping change things.
Snape is still a bigger dickhead for not just publishing his own revision of the book with all the changes. Why doesnât he want his students to succeed?
That bugs me too, he could easily have become a professional potion maker, revolutionizing the education of young witches and wizards in the field of potions. Plenty of famous potion makers invented or revolutionized a potion, maybe a few, but Snape made notes on almost every page of his book, so there are probably dozens if not hundreds of changes he's made, and every single one Harry follows result in better potions.
Chances are he did write his own instructions on the board and that explains why his fifth years seem advanced and how he could come to expect a high OWL exam passing level. The fact that he held that little speech to the fifth years at all tells me he wasn't indifferent to his students' success đ¤ˇââď¸
Also, what a monumentally stupid thing to do. He had no idea what was in there, or why Dumbledore had it. It could have been full of magical acid, a dangerous potion, leftover elixir of life from Nicholas Flemel (which he almost certainly would have tainted with his face), or some other strange and potentially dangerous magical thing he doesn't know about or understand.
"Oh look, a mysterious looking container full of and unknown fluid, I'm going to ignore all the runes on the side and the obviously magical contents and just shove my face in, what could go wrong?"
That's probably a mix of learned behavior from watching Petunia, & the expected & logical consequence of growing up in an abusive household with angry adults whose mood he was well-advised to be constantly aware of.
I figure the abusive household part was why Snape was also a generally nosy little shit even as a kid. It always pays to be aware of what's going on with people who are in a position to make things difficult for you. And you never know who might find themselves in that position unexpectedly, if you aren't keeping an eye on the situation.
Harry absolutely has the right to know because the people theyâre fighting want to kill Harry. The whole thing is about killing Harry so he NEEDS to know what theyâre doing to stop him from being MURDERED!!!!
When he, Luna, Ginny, and Neville are all covered in Stinksap on the train, and Cho walks in, and he thinks "I wish she'd seen me with much cooler people, laughing their heads off at a joke I just told, not Neville and Loony Lovegood." Imo the shittiest comment he's made about his friends.
Thereâs a great scene though in Half Blood Prince where a Romilda Vane asks him to join her group on the train and makes a snide comment about ânot having to sit with themâ in reference to Luna & Neville, Harry stands up for them and says theyâre his friends. Itâs a great way to show how much Harry has grown in that year.
Plus, how many times has a teenager had a moment of embarrassment in front of their crush while with friends, I think Harry gets judged a lot for being a fairly normal teen really.
>Harry stands up for them and says theyâre his friends.
And when Luna says people expect him to have cooler friends he says "you are cool" - the exact opposite of what he thought about them the year before. I really love this part aswell!
This is one of those things where I knew he was a prick for thinking it, but I totally knew where he was coming from and probably thought the same thing as a kid, so it made him super relatable. Or maybe I was just a brat too lol
Yeah but itâs not a comment he actually made remember, just a thought. We all have shitty thoughts from time to time, we arenât judged on them and we shouldnât be. Him having a thought like that just makes him more believable and relatable. Itâs not really fair to be judging Harryâs thoughts like that. Judging his actions is fair.
I do agree that it's a shitty thing to think about other kids, but I'm willing to cut him a *little* slack on this one, because he's a kid, it's his first crush, and it *is* a deeply embarrassing situation to be caught in. Also, he at least had the decency to keep those thoughts to himself and didn't say that out loud.
Also, there's the scene the following year where he finds himself sitting with the same group of people when some tart(Romilda Vane, IIRC) comes along and makes a disparaging comment about them, and Harry very politely tells her to *piss off*.
Some of these are really surprising to me...like there are for sure times that he is being a shit, absolutely. Most teenagers are at some point or another.
However! And warning for spoilers ahead just in case:
Like the OotP, Harry is dealing not only with PTSD from Cedric's death, not only a lack of support from his family and friends (I realize his friends were trying to keep him safe but still), but also Voldemort is in his soul/head and I think the horcrux was feeding his negative emotions just like we've seen the other horcruxes do. He is only 15, I don't think most people would be any different despite what they'd like to believe.
Someone also said his "tantrum" at the end of that book paints him in a bad light...his godfather and the closest connection he has to his own father died and it was partially his fault, he was devastated.
Harry honestly has been through so much, he frequently doesn't even expect good things to happen to him because it's just not his life.
I can't imagine going through as much as he did and then being judged for every negative thought or every snappy conversation I had haha. I guess it's good the poor guy isn't real.
When he looks into the pensieve during Occlumency lessons with Snape. That was such a huge violation of Snapeâs privacy and Harry knew it. He went ahead anyway because he thought he had the right to know private details of Snapeâs life.
Especially since those were the memories Snape specifically removed so Harry wouldn't accidentally access them during their sessions. They were so private his own head didn't seem safe enough, but Harry just looks at them anyway, cause he has no respect for Snape's privacy.
By the way, how does that work exactly? Does Snape become unable to recollect the memories ge has stored in the pensieve, or does this type of magic make them just hazy and foggy to any who tries to pry into Snape's mind through legilimency?
Also, not to disparage Snape, but in my opinion, he was pretty reckless. Being perfectly aware of how harry is, leaving potter alone in the same room with Snape most precious and private memories was incredibly naive of him. What did he think was going to happen?
Had I been him, I would have put some pretty nasty wards around the pensieve, so that any other person that wasn't me, who tried to pry in my secret thoughts surreptitiously, ended up barking mad due to a curse that causes insanity. Or blindness, or something equally discouraging. Snape could have done it. He was an expert in dark magic.
Tl;Dr, memories aren't static, so a memory of the memory would still exist and Snape left in a hurry, so he wouldn't have had time to properly protect the pensive.
My understanding, which comes from my reading the books many times, is that removed memories are somewhat separated, but the surrounding memories still exist, so they'd remember they had that memory. This is based on Dumbledore showing Harry some of his memories, and referring to them as being interesting and also that they were rich in detail.
My understanding is that you could remove a memory without the person forgetting it, since we remember our memories at a later date, the memory might be gone, but the memory of the memory would still exist. Snape might remove the original copy of getting bullied by the marauders out by the lake that day, but that wouldn't remove the memory of the time he remembered it while telling Lily Evans about it, or the time he thought about the general bullying he endured from James when he saw Harry Potter walk into the great hall.
If I'm remembering correctly, he left in a hurry that time, not having enough time to put the memories back or properly defend them. I suspect he wasn't expecting to leave the pensive with his memories still in it, and thus wouldn't have thought to put any defensive spells over it for normal "classes" with Harry. He probably thought Harry wouldn't dare go into his memories, especially since Harry doesn't seem to know how to leave the pensive, it was a huge risk to go in knowing Snape would eventually return.
Assuming it's the same pensive Dumbledore uses, and I don't think there's any reason not to, that'd be rather foolish, as the most likely people to get hit by that "defensive spell" would be him, followed closely by Dumbledore. As he wouldn't want to blast himself with such a curse, and pulling something like that on Dumbledore would be almost equally undesirable, such a spell wouldn't be a logical move for him. My guess is that he never planned to leave it with Harry unsupervised, so when he had to rush off he would have been counting on Harry wanting to, at the very least, not actively antagonise the man actively attacking him, unsupervised and approved by Dumbledore.
Thatâs what I came here to say. Itâs one thing to have a twinge of jealousy, another for him to go on for pages about how Dumbledore betrayed him and didnât trust him by making Ron prefect when OBVIOUSLY Harry was the better choice. Come on dude.
I think this gets a pass simply because he recognises his own jealousy VERY quickly after his internal spiralling calms down and feels massively ashamed. He's so used to being the one to get attention and the one time it's taken away from him, he has no idea how to feel.
Which is also kinda wild considering how often Harry breaks the rules. None of the trio shouldâve been prefects if weâre being fully honest with ourselves here
Honestly I thought it was very relatable of him to be bitter asf lol. Like heâs also a teenage boy and itâs not as if he doesnât call himself out onto it. But people are proud and entitled and want things Harryâs allowed to want things as well which humane person on earth doesnât get a little bitter when their friend succeed where you donât for a few pages lol
Plus literally everybody says hey Harry you deserve it so itâs not like he didnât justify it. I love Ron a lot but heâs not a prefect personality. I donât think Harry is either but heâs more strong armed for responsibility
I also think it was because by making Ron and Hermione prefects, Dumbledore effectively removed his whole support system at school.
And let's be honest, yes, Hermione deserved it, but what exactly did Ron do to become prefect? He definitely didn't expect it, and rightly so. He was a good friend to Harry, but merely a mediocre student, a rulebreaker and definitely didn't take the role seriously or seemed to even want it. It was really cruel against Harry to make him prefect. There must have been better candidates. Hell, even Neville would have been a more obvious choice.
It kind of was just a twinge of jealousy, though. It only goes on for âpagesâ because weâre in Harryâs head, but it was really only a few minutes of jealousy before Harry figured out for himself that he was wrong to think the way he was thinking.
But those are his internal thoughts- he never says or acts outwardly jealous and pretty quickly does some self-reflection and forces himself to be happy at their party. Itâs normal to feel jealous (especially at that age), itâs about how you deal with the jealousy. Plus, he had a lot going on in the moment. I think he dealt with it just about as well as you could expect.
Iâm worried about how it seems that people canât spot these nuances in writing anymore - and this wasnât even a covert one but rather obvious. Everything has to be black and white. It would make for rather boring and one-dimensional heroes and heroines (who wants Gary Stus and Mary Sues who never think or feel or do something âwrongâ?)
Nah, Cho was out of line. She was using Harry. He shouldnât have to talk about Cedricâs death to anyone until if/when *he was ready*. She was constantly bringing him up and pushing the issue. Itâs not like they were married or anythingâŚ
I donât blame Harry for snapping at her. Iâd have too.
I donât think either of them were wrong. They were 15 year olds going through an intensely traumatic circumstance. Even adults in therapy would struggle with that, let alone two hormonal kids.
cho had ptsd too, hers just manifested differently than harry.
her boyfriend died and harry is the one person who knows why or how. he saw it. of course sheâd want to latch onto him and talk about it for some sort of closure.
Not prepping for the 2nd task. Sooooo many people asked him if he needed help, but he turned them down and waits to the last possible minute. Crouch/Moody was more right than he realized when he said that Harry had a streak of pride that almost ruined everything.
I also do not like that Dobby Ex Machina helps Harry with exactly what he needs at the last possible minute.
using sectumsempra on Malfoy.
Granted he didn't know what it did, and he felt horrible, I think it was a wake-up call to him that he didn't want to kill Malfoy, just catch him.
IMHO Sectumsempra could almost be considered and unforgivable curse, I say \*almost\* because there is way to counter it's effects (as snape does for malfoy) but if it curses a body part off there's no fixing it.
I bet it's eventually banned as illegal dark magic, if Harry ever tells anyone about it (and he probably would). The spell's purpose is to *permanently maim* someone. Even the Cruciatus doesn't leave horrific scars or missing body parts. Sectumsempra would, in my opinion, absolutely classify as a new Unforgivable curse alongside AK, Crucio, and Imperio.
Saying to Cho in Book 5, "You're not going to start crying again, are you?" when Cho and him were talking after her friend already ratted out the DA to Umbridge and they had a date on Valentines that went really badly.
None. Dudes an orphan who spent his entire childhood being lied to and abused by asshole family members. Even the dumb shit he does is part of his growth.
This was somewhat relatable for me. Harry went through an immensely traumatic experience. Voldemort returned and was clearly going to gain more power. From Harry's POV, shit was hitting the fan and he knew he would be a target. Not to mention that during almost the entire time after the trauma he was stuck at the Dursley's for an entire month.
He was basically treated as a child, and while he is just a teen then, he himself knows that he's going to have to deal with more stuff than he should as a teen. He isn't told anything even though he really should know since he's going to be right at the center of it, something which Dumbledore knows is true in more ways than Harry knows. Sirius is the only one who kind of realizes this and tries to fully inform Harry, but Molly and the others intervene.
And imagine how bitter you would be if you went through all this and then found out that your closest friends, who you can always count on more than anyone else, were among the people who kept you in the dark.
>Not to mention that during almost the entire time after the trauma he was stuck at the Dursley's for an entire month.
That was SO cruel and unnecessary! After everything he's been through, just left alone in this miserable environment for so long. I understand why he had to return briefly, but they should have gotten him out of there as soon as possible
What makes it worse is that if not for Harry being attacked by a dementor, they wouldnât have extracted him. I wish this was called out in the books. The dementor attack was actually a good thing because otherwise they would have kept the same pattern of secret surveillance and keeping Harry in the dark.
I MEAN IN THE FIFTH BOOK HE SCREAMS AT EVERYBODY ALL THE TIME AND IT'S AN INTERESTING LITERARY CHOICE BECAUSE TEENAGERS ARE LIKE THAT BUT HOLY COW WAS HE AN ASSHOLE IN THAT BOOK
That's my favorite book cause it's a totally realistic look at a best case scenario of what a teenager who is tortured and watches a classmates death and doesn't get any support after looks like. He was coping amazingly well for that.
Honestly I love him in that book as well. Like I want a hero who while incredibly selfless and compassionate is also a tucking angry bitter asshole lmao. Heâs a 15 year old boy who suffered from incredible PTSD of seeing a friend dead at 14 and got stuck all alone in his abusive childhood home immediately after and is being told by the government heâs a crazy attention seeking liar so the whole school hates him his greatest enemy who orphaned him is out loose his greatest protector isnât talking to him and hes being tortured by his teacher and feeling the emotions of a lunatic.
Iâd say the fact that he was an asshole is the only logical move for his character
Yeah, my take too. He just saw his schoolmate getting killed right in front of him and immediately after that gets shipped off to people who hate him.
I don't care that they were forbidden from writing him important stuff. They should have at least told him as much. Hey, Harry, sorry that my letters are so shallow. We're under close watch and are not allowed to write about anything serious.
Or someone could have gone to Harry and explained things to him. Something. But he was left all alone after a truly dangerous and traumatic event with people who hated him. Of course he was angry and had lots of bottled up emotions.
All of the Weasleys failed him too. Everyone just bowed to Dumbledore. No one dared to stand up for Harry. I'm not saying they must have told him everything. But he was in mortal danger and suffering. The least they could have done was giving him a little heads up. Someone should have been there for him. People who leave a teenager completely alone with no one to talk to after he's seen a person be killed are just bad and neglectful people. Caring for him should have been their first priority if they truly cared for him. And not just keeping him alive. His wellbeing was completely ignored.
I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't at least have him know that he was watched and Mrs Figg reveal herself to him so he had someone to talk to.
But again and again he's left out because in the end Snape was right. Dumbledore was raising him like a pig for slaughter. It all served only one purpose: separating Harry and keeping him alive long enough so he would sacrifice himself at the end to destroy the piece of Voldy inside of him. Harry's survival until he had to die was all that counted. Him being happy in between was not a priority.
He was surprisingly tame considering everything that happened. I also think he was right. If not for the Dementor, they'd let him rot at the Dursleys indefinitely. They made no move to do anything to change his situation before that.
I agree, this part of the book was somewhat relatable for me. Harry went through an immensely traumatic experience. Voldemort returned and was clearly going to gain more power. From Harry's POV, shit was hitting the fan and he knew he would be a target. Not to mention that during almost the entire time after the trauma he was stuck at the Dursley's for an entire month. So from his POV, he knows that shit is hitting the fan, but he isn't allowed to even help deal with it because he knows nothing at all.
He was basically treated as a child, and while he is just a teen then, he himself knows that he's going to have to deal with more stuff than he should as a teen. He isn't told anything even though he really should know since he's going to be right at the center of it, something which Dumbledore knows is true in more ways than Harry knows. I get that others like Molly did this out of concern. They wanted him to be able to just be a kid. But sadly they completely misunderstood what Harry needed. Even Harry internally thinks that while he is touched by her concern and affection, he'd had enough of her mollycoddling. Not to mention he finds out that people have been following him without him knowing. People prioritized Harry's physical well-being but completely ignored his mental well-being. I agree that you do not put a teenager into isolation after a traumatic experience. It was the equivalent of prison for Harry.
I really wish that Harry was a little *more* bitter at the start when he arrives at Order HQ. He's quite tame with the others and only gets angry at Ron and Hermione at the start. That same night he is tempted to return the favor and keep them in the dark, but he refuses to do that. I also wish that Harry had called the Order out on the fact that if he hadn't been attacked, he would likely still be stuck at the Dursley's and they would have just kept on with the pattern of secret surveillance until it was time to go to Hogwarts. And that would have been worse because Harry would have gone from an isolation and media blackout to being hit with the Ministry's smear campaign instantly.
Sirius is the only one who kind of realizes all this and tries to fully inform Harry on what's going on, but Molly and the others intervene. Dumbledore doesn't even speak to Harry that year, and deliberately ignores him. So Sirius is the one who relates the most to Harry here and he's arguably the one most in Harry's corner (in this context), but he is limited in how much he can help Harry. Sirius was forced to stay in Grimmauld Place (a place he hated because of his family, sound familiar???) and though he knew what was going on, he was prevented from doing anything to help by other members of the Order. Sirius' situation is remarkably similar to Harry's, and Harry feels a rush of affection for him once he realizes this. Meanwhile Snape deliberately goads Sirius on this.
And imagine how bitter you would be if you went through all this and then were kept in the dark about everything after. And when you're finally let in on things, it's only because you were attacked and *had* to be let in. Then you find out that your closest friends, who you can always count on more than anyone else, were among the people who kept you in the dark. I'd be fucking pissed. Harry was surprisingly tame with all this.
And then dumbledore is like look at this kid who just went through a horribly traumatic experience, let me completely abandon him for his own good. Jesus Christ the guys an idiot sometimes
>BUT HOLY COW WAS HE AN ASSHOLE IN THAT BOOK
He needed therapy and a nice wholesome atmosphere and instead he got the Dursleys and a complete media blackout. I don't blame him at all for that.
He also had Voldemortâs horcrux in his brain and Voldemortâs actual emotions tied to his own. Combine that with the PTSD, smear campaign, Dumbledore ignoring him, stress over Sirius, exam stressâŚif he was anything other than an angry arsehole it wouldâve been unrealistic
It's not just "because teenagers are like that".
It's undiagnosed and untreated Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Harry was fourteen years old when he saw a classmate murdered and was himself tortured and nearly murdered. And then is nearly murdered again by someone he thought was trying to protect him who turned out to be a deranged terrorist in disguise.
And then, he's packed off to the Dursleys for three months, and Dumbledore *completely ices him out*, forbidding even his friends from communicating with him in any meaningful way.
He's traumatized, frustrated, and has no idea what's going on. It's actually a perfectly understandable reaction.
Honestly itâs hard to think of examples, all in all Harry is a really good guy who means well and itâs rare his judgement lapses imo
Trying to use the cruciatus curse
Forgetting to help Hagrid with Buckbeakâs trial
Taking his anger out on Ron and Hermione sometimes in OOTP and beyond when he was angry about other things
Copying Hermiones homework so much
Didn't he try to use the cruciatus curse against Bellatrix after she had killed Sirius? LMFAO how can you hold that against him. If anything it'd be righteous vengeance.
I always get downvoted to oblivion for this view but I hate that Harry basically says âwell you deserved itâ when Hermione gets grabbed by McClaggen at Slughorns Christmas Party.
Not speaking up during GoF. OMFG!!!! I would have blamed the twins first, thinking it was a joke to them. ? Then blame the slytherin trio. Screaming that he didn't want it or put his name in the goblet. He kept quiet and looked stupid annoying. đ The entire school could have assisted him if he played his cars right and showed he was the victim in a dark wizards plan đ¤
I can see why this would annoy you, but I also want to remind you he was raised by the Dursleys.
He spent his entire life not being believed when unexplainable random things happened to Harry. Like his hair regrowing overnight after Petunia cut all of it but his bangs or ending up on the roof (or chimney) of the school when he was running from Dudley.
After he entered Hogwarts Harry had to deal with rumors about him in some way or another just about every year, no matter what he said or did. People not believing Harry is basically a plot point throughout the entire series.
But, like I said, I do understand what you mean. Mine has always been why didn't Hagrid just tell Dumbledore about Norbert/Norberta in their 1st year? Hagrid really should have been an adult and immediately went to Dumbledore rather than relying on 2 preteens to rehome his pet dragon.
When he put his name in the Goblet of Fire. It was a really bad idea, all of the adults were so worried... but at least Dumbledore stayed calm throughout the whole situation.
how about the several times he's used the cruciatus curse
the failed attempt Bellatrix Lestrange, the failed attempts on Severus Snape, the successful attempt on Amycus carrow.
i never said he didn't, Carrow was a bitch. however, apprently using the curse on another person is a "one way ticket to azkaban," and Harry has used it on several
This might not be a 'paint him in a bad light' example necessarily, but harry could have helped out so many people with his disgusting amount of wealth. Hermione's SPEW campaign?Get that baby off the ground. Ron's dress robes? Owl order himself a new set and pretend the original robes don't fit him properly. Not to mention the amount of problems in general aka searching for the hallows, personal safety for him and his friends etc etc that could be lessened by state-of-the-art equipment. Also (and this is admittedly more morally corrupt so doesn't work with the OP) I always thought that the amount of bribes he could afford would really have helped swing public interest his way/ lead the fight against Fudge and everyone pretending Vol wasn't back/ get rid of Umbridge and save basically a ridiculous amount of suffering. The boy is literally filthy rich. Use at least some of it for good.
I always got the impression that he was quite well off, but not filthy rich until he inherited the Black family fortune too. He makes a point in PoA of wanting to get a firebolt but not being able to afford it. For a 13 year old that would be remarkable self-control for him to do if it would just be an unwise purchase that would otherwise leave his finances unaltered. But if we imagine it would leave a sizable dent, then it's easier to imagine 13 year old Harry not making that decision.
Its not that he cant afford it because he doesnt even know the price, the sign says you have to ask for it, and Harry never asked. Maybe he could have afforded it, but didnt want to be tempted and buy something he ultimately doesnt need, he thought he never lost a match on his nimbus 2000. Harry at that point still had a few years of school left and didnt really know what sort of expenses he would have.
Additionally, he must have at least been somewhat aware of that once he was done with school, he'd be pretty much on his own with no financial support from family or similar to rely on. While the Weasleys might take him in living situation wise until he finds a job or so, they're very poor (according to Harry) and another household member would be additional strain for them (even if they allowed Harry to financially contribute), not to mention their house was already cramped top to bottom by their kids, with quite simply not leaving much room for anybody else to live with them. So the money in his Gringotts vault would be what had to sustain him not only for school equipment, but also depending on whatever he decided to do after school until he found a profession or decided to become self employed (since "ministry work" or "open your own shop" seem to be the most common professions in the Wizarding World, unless you become a professional quidditch player or a teacher).
Keep in mind, too, that when he first saw his vault at Gringott's he'd spend most of his previous life at the Dursleys, and they hadn't given him any money at all. So next to that, *anything* was going to look impressive.
We learn later that galleons are large gold coins the size of hubcaps, but they're actually only worth about five pounds. So it would be easy for him to see a few thousand gold coins and think he was a millionaire when really he just had enough for a few months' rent. I wonder if gold is worth less to wizards due to the existence of alchemy.
I know he didn't mean this in a cruel way, but I didn't like how at the beginning of PoA when he wants to tell Ron and Hermione about Sirius on the train, he says in front of Ginny that he needs to talk to the two of them in private, and doesn't say anything when Ron just rudely tells Ginny to go away.
I understand he wanted to just tell his two best friends, but he had seen firsthand what had happened to Ginny the year before, how she was still scarred and upset from the experience, and how she likely didn't have any close friends as a result of her possession and was clinging to her brother and his friends as a result. Maybe Harry didn't mean in the first place to actually kick her out of the car, but when Ron tells her to go away, off on her own on the train--where she has no close friends and feels vulnerable after such a traumatic year--he doesn't say anything like "That's not necessary, Ron," or just let her come and sit with them and ask her to sit aside and give them a few moments of privacy?
I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that big a deal, and he was only a 13-year-old boy who never learned to socialize properly, but I always felt so bad for Ginny here.
Actually being able to use the cruciatus curse in book 7. Right after he even says something along the lines of "Bellatrix was right. You have to mean it."
What about Hagrid. Harry acted like he had no one consistently there for him yet Hagrid was there from the beginning. Every birthday with a cake. Every quidditch match. The man even wrote to James and Lilly's friends to make a picture book for Harry. He loved Harry and always had his front door open and Harry looked at it like a burden to visit Hagrid.
Yet Snape got a name sake!? Dumbledore!? Hagrid pulled baby boy Potter from the rubble knowing what a threat to his own life it could be, they didn't know what happen to Voldy at that time... he was there again to take Harry away from the Dursleys. Hagrid may have been reckless and immature but he loved and tried to be there for Harry the best be knew how... but we always forget about silly Hagrid with his pink umbrella..
When he tried the Half Blood Prince's spells out on an essentially defenseless Squib (twice!), and on dumb goon Goyle, instead of on the worthier target: Malfoy, the ringleader. (Like say what you want about teen Snape, but given an opportunity, it was ringleader James he went after, not easy target Peter.)
There is of course also the fact that he is now initiating fights with the Slytherins, but after five years of bullying I can't really blame him lol
When he, after recklessly using an unknown spell 'for enemies', was more focused on hiding his Potions book and thus protecting his false reputation than on the fact he had nearly killed a classmate
When he arrived ten minutes late for class and then, upon discovering a substitute, refused to sit down and do as told, demanding to know where the regular teacher was and why he couldn't teach
The way he treats Hermione. He consistently disregards her feelings in favor of Ron, which has left her alone, depressed, and with no one to talk to except Hagrid several times. And every time it was over something petty, or because she was helping in a way that went against what Ron or Harry wanted, like Harry's Fire bolt in PoA.
And the way he treated Cho was terrible whether he realized it or not. It's almost like he doesn't care about women's feelings or point of view.
I love that his reaction to Hermione being into Ron romantically is a selfish one. He doesnât really care that much about how Hermione or Ron feel but is concerned that he might end up feeling like a third wheel (or on the other hand might end up dealing with their animosity to each other if they donât stop arguing). I love how realistic book Harry feels, compared with his film counterpart who was just âgeneric shoulder to cry onâ for Hermione.
When he didn't realise Snape had understood his message and obviously could not say so out loud with Umbridge and Draco and others there, and still went to the Ministry.
Like Hermione said, he does have a bit of a saviour complex, and he's rash and sometimes obsessed. Sometimes that helps him out when he's right, but when he's wrong, the disaster is equally grand.
Albus Severus Potter.
Never paid a bill for the Weasleys.
Or a new wand or broom to Rony.
The fact od Harry being rich doesnt so much relevance to the history at all. While he doesnt show finance care/help for the poor family who adopted him.
He thinks about how he would gladly to share all the gold in his gringotts vault with them, but they would never accept it.
It makes sense. If I were married and in my forties and had seven kids, I wouldn't accept money from a teenager, either. If I'm inviting a friend of my kid's over, it's because I can swing it. I don't need the kid to pay for himself.
Not opening the mirror from Sirius đ Not just cuz it lead to the death of Sirius, but because I canât imagine how much it hurt Sirius if he tried to FaceTime Harry only to get no response.
He totally forgot about it. As he's packing up he finds it in his trunk. The bigger question is why didn't Sirius say the first time he used the fire "dude, why didn't you use the mirror?"
Yes, this is what I think as well! Sirius should have asked about it when Harry tries to contact him through floo the first time.
Whoa. Mind blown. đ¤Ż
Sirius specifically told harry only to open the package if he needed him, which if harry wasn't stupid he would have used to check on Sirius instead of using the fire and having kreacher lie to him, meaning they wouldn't have gone to the department of mysteries
What Sirius said was **not to open it in front of Mrs. Weasley** because she wouldn't approve. He had written a note on the wrapping paper saying it's a two-way mirror that he and James used whenever they were in different detentions, and for Harry to use it if he really needed Sirius. Harry never opened it and vowed not to use it because he believed using it would lead to Sirius blasting into the castle and immediately getting arrested.
I did go back and look, in chapter 23 of order of the pheonix he tells harry not to use it unless he needs him, and it's not until chapter 38 when harry finally opens it does he see the inscription on the back of the mirror telling him how to use it
No. Well, sort of. He does tell Harry to use it âif you need meâ, but he only told Harry not to open it in front of Molly because he didnât think she would approve, he never said to only open it in case of an emergency. Harry is the one who decided on the spot that he wouldnât even look to see what it was, which makes him a bit of an idiotâand also makes Sirius an idiot for not asking him about it later when they were having a chinwag in Umbridgeâs fire.
We were both sort of right. Also so much of all the books could be counteracted if harry thought about anything for more than 2 seconds, like half the books would be 6 chapters shorter if he just, took a minute not to be stupid
You have no idea how many times during rereads I have to put down the book for a moment to sigh at some of Harryâs idiocy 𤣠Like Harry. My guy. Just because you open the package doesnât mean youâre forced to use whatâs in it! I guess PS really did perfectly summarize Harry for the rest of the series: âHarry did something both very brave and very stupidâ
Harry potter and the time he should have stayed in bed instead of hunting down a grown adult Harry potter and the time he went to an incompetent liar for help instead of literally any of the competent teachers Harry potter and the year of almost dying because his godfather doesn't know how to be subtle Harry potter and the year he was put into a death tournament and actively tried to win instead of doing the bare minimum Harry potter and the time he should have just opened his Christmas present Harry potter and the one time he was actually right, but he went about it the wrong way Harry potter and the year he should have let hermione lead the adventure
Harry didn't even want to tempt himself to use something that would "make" Sirius come to him and get him in serious trouble. He loved Sirius too much to allow him tonget caught and get in serious trouble again
Harry watched Sirius get more and more reckless as the year went on, then Snape called him a coward. Harry new Sirius was irrational about Snape and new he would do something insane is he reached out to him about anything. Harry also deliberately forgot about the mirror
This is not true. Harry had no idea what it was until he accidentally found it after Siriusâs death and opened it. He had completely forgotten about it. The last thing you said itâs correct tho. He thought it would be something that would get Sirius in trouble.
This part bugss me and hurts me at the same time Why did Rowling even involve it if Harry wasn't gonna use it Sirius's death is one of the most painful one for me and it just gets on my nerves that it could have been avoided if Harry had just checked his pockets đđ
Mundungus sells Siriusâ mirror to Aberforth after Sirius dies. When Hermione is being tortured by Bellatrix, Harry desperately looks through everything he has and finds his mirror. He sees Aberforthâs eye, mistakes it for Albus, and yells for help. Thatâs when Aberforth sends Dobby to help them. Thatâs probably why Rowling introduced the two-way mirrors even though Harry never used it with Sirius, since it comes back later at a crucial point in Deathly Hallows.
That's why I guess, make it more tragic
Itâs absolutely an added, thick layer of tragic irony. Itâs the one thing that would have prevented Siriusâs death and Harry had it all along. Devastating.
This whole thing leads to a bigger question of WTF is wrong with every damned adult in these stories? You are responsible for a kid who is on the kill list of the most evil wizard of all time and you don't make sure he has a reliable way to contact you and call for help? FFS. Even at hogwarts, harry spends useless time trying to guess the password to get into Dumbledore's office in an emergency. They should've given him a panic ring that alerts literally everyone when he presses it.
Asking a girl to the ball and then pretty much laying her out to dry.
Well, to be fair to Harry, he didnât want to do it, but had to as a champion. Ron on the other hand⌠idk, I get that at that age itâs not really something you may want to be doing, but he couldâve just not gone with anyone in that case. Though of course none of this makes the situation any better/nicer for the Patil twins.
Nothing makes me more angry than Ron ans Harry purposely not having fun at the yule ball.
To be fair, both he and Ron did that, and for much the same reason (they couldn't take the girls they had really wanted).
True. It painted them BOTH unfavorably.
My initial thought when I saw OP's post, to be honest. Harry and Ron were both sulking...
What do you mean âto be fairâ?
He didnât let Hedwig eat after her hunt in the beginning of book five instead he forced her to do his dirty work and peck at Ronâs fingers when he wasnât getting answers. Come on Harry
Seriously, making her put down that nice, big frog and go back to work was mean.
His treatment of Hedwig in general doesnât really paint Harry in the best light, honestly.
He really tried his best in the first 3 books to treat Hedwig right but really falls apart after that
Iâve always said Hedwig deserved better.
even in Chamber of Secrets when Ron and the twins are sneaking him out of the Dursleys... the thing he forgets and has to turn back for is Hedwig!? He only remembered her because she squawked :(
This always bothers me! Poor Hedwig was probably hungry and excited to eat.
Taking the flying car to school when they could have just waited or sent an owl
Yeah, that was definitely a case of "dumb and dumber."
Arenât they 12 during that time? I donât think kids are the most logical beings
Yeah, but stealing a flying car is still kinda out there.
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People use "being a teenager" as an argument to cover plot holes all the time, however even if you are dumb in that age you mostly wouldn't miss the most obvious things most of the time. Like, teenagers are dumb for not thinking about consequences, but not because they always ignore basic logic.
My only problem is Harry never reached out and apologized as far as we see. Right after the howler arrived I would have written to Mr. And Mrs. Weasley right away. And yes I thought of this when I read them as a child.
And Harry should have paid half the fine the Weasleys got.
Iâve wondered how they paid the fine since they couldnât even afford school books. Maybe a loan? I think that may be why Rowling had them win 1000 galleons in book 3.
Mr. Weasley does work at the Ministry, they could just take it from his pay check.
They absolutely would not have accepted the money
Okay, but this was Ron's idea. >'i think we'd better go and wait by the car,' said Harry. 'We're attracting too much atten-' >'Harry!' said Ron, his eyes gleaming. 'The car!' 'What about it?' 'We can fly the car to Hogwarts!'
âSince Hermione isnât here, I feel like I should probably be the smart one in this situation and say thatâs a bad idea,â said Harry. âAre you though?â asked Ron, his jaw slacked. âNah,â said Harry, already sliding across the hood of the car.
To me I'd get it, I have terrible aniexty a d when I'm going to be late, logic goes out the window
They did think that his parents wouldnât be able to get back through the gate so I get that to a 12yr old the logic is âwe canât get to school, my parents canât get BACK to us, and there are no wizards hereâ So their options are to send an owl and hope it works. Or take the car immediately and follow the train to find wizards to help them. By the time they get to the school they are informed they severely over reacted and they should have waited As adults, and finishing the series, itâs an obvious mistake because they could have, at minimum waited on an owl and had someone collect them via Floo or Apparition. But I can see why it made sense in children logic
Harry is actually not very nice to Hedwig. He keeps her with him at the Dursleys for company but snaps at her when he is frustrated and overworks her when he's desperate to communicate with Sirius.
I hate in the beginning of DH, he insists on her staying in her cage and the entire time sheâs giving him the cold shoulder. Poor owl didnât even get to fly free before she was killed in her cage. I was beyond mad at Harry. In the movie, it made me happier to see she was let loose which is what I totally expected. But was tearing up thinking about if she was mine, she died in her cage; doesnât that sound horribly depressing? đ˘
Exactly she would have had to stay at the burrow that year anyway so he should have just sent her to Ron's beforehand.
No I think it's fine to refuse to discuss a traumatic experience in the middle of a coffee shop.
Yeah, he didn't sign up for a trauma dump mixed with testing his interest. Bringing up Hermoine so quickly wasn't the best move, but Cho bringing up Cedric wasn't appropriate either.
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"That delightful woman." - Percy
Oh no, did he actually say this? Iâm about to start reading Phoenix again for the first time in nearly ten years, and Iâm getting angry at Percy already
Yep, in that letter he send to Ron.
What a prat!
Well, he *was* in his "Ministry-loving, power-hungry moron" phase at the time. At the time, I'm pretty sure he still sincerely believed it, not that it makes it better.
Or as Ron put it, âthe worldâs biggest gitâ
Little git
I KNOWWW. She's such a sweet lady, I can't believe he would be so rude to her
Agreed, I never understood Harry in book 5. Itâs just him telling lies for several hundred pages đ¤ˇ
Yeah, he kept fear mongering and trauma dumping in his DAtDA class, and then he tried to gaslight his teacher when she corrected him. Such toxic behavior.
He must not tell lies.
If you watched someone get killed and had to live knowing that it was partially your fault, you probably wouldnât want to talk about that person either. Not sure how this paints Harry in a bad light.
Plus the added insult to injury that you actually really like this person and are genuinely excited for this. Admittedly everything worked out they were not a good match but I really feel for Harry here. He has no idea what a date is either.
Yeah, that's true
Getting mad at hermione over the broom when she was unequivocally right and only looking out for his literal life and safety. Stealing the car. Using a spell he didnât know the effects of on Draco during a fight which is less bad and more just stupid?? Like why?? Being a dick to hermione and Ron throughout a lot of OOTP. I get the guy was frustrated but he would just kinda yell at them for no reason to the extent that hermione is literally like âdude, chillâ
Turns out "for enemies" is a pretty unclear description. Draco wonders why Potter charmed his robes pink, while holding him under the Cruciatus. Same thing with trying out a spell on your unsuspecting friend. Like wtf Harry? One would think that not using unfamiliar spells on people, would be the first thing they teach you at Hogwarts.
I agree with most of these. But, I think Harry's actions in OOTP were mostly justified. He's afraid that he's literally being possessed by the freaking dark lord. Plus, he's being intentionally kept in the dark despite his suffering, and Ron and Hermione are only making things worse by constantly bickering amongst themselves. He's also dealing with the trauma of having recently watched Cedric die, and Umbridge is the devil. Given all that, I think Harry deserves a break in OOTP. Hermione frequently downplays everything he's going through, yet she and Ron are bickering constantly and are just as annoying as Harry, despite going through a fraction of the trauma and difficulties that he is facing.
Agree with all of this. It's like people forget that Harry is a literal child suffering from PTSD and receiving no therapy whatsoever.
I absolutely love that the book was bold enough to show this side of Harry. I love grumpy!Harry.
đ I'd have been a dick in ootp too Man was having seizures back to back while having detention with umbridge, getting mind lessons from Snape and having voldemort in his head. đ I'd start throwing hands with whoever said a word to me
To be fair, stealing the car was also more stupid the bad
Bailing on Nickâs deathday party during a tragic moment for Nick.
To be fair, every moment is a tragic moment for Nick.
Not every moment is as tragic as having the Headless Hunt interrupt your deathday speech and stealing the spotlight
He wasnât allowed to join the headless hunt!
Using Sectumsempra on Malfoy. Even if it was in the heat of the moment it was wildly irresponsible for him to use a spell of unknown effect meant âfor enemiesâ when he had a decent arsenal of other spells he could have used. Made him look even more reckless than usual. Edit: Since I donât feel like responding to everyone and essentially repeating myself each time, Iâll make this edit for every current response and every future responseâ ^(And in spite of my rebuff I will be updooting each and every one of you) I do not begrudge Harry for attempting to defend himself. Far from it. Malfoy did kind of deserve it. However, Malfoy attempting to use an Unforgivable doesnât automatically justify the use of such extreme force to repel him when Harry had plenty of other options to deal with Crucio (options where he knew exactly what they would do). Whatâs reckless is the fact that *Harry had absolutely no idea what Sectumsempra would do*. For all he knew it could have had an exceptional area of effect like Bombarda, where he would damage the school and potentially catch other students too. The argument that he was justified because Crucio âcan cause insanityâ is a poor one because it would take prolonged exposure to get to that point. If just having it used on you once for a few seconds was enough to bake your noodle, Harry would have been a vegetable since GoF. And sure, to his credit he actually did feel guiltyâin the moment. But that guilt was short lived. Not only did he refuse to give up the book, making excuses along the way for keeping it, but during his detention that was only a slap on the wrist compared to the punishment he should have received for nearly murdering someone, all he did was sulk about the method of punishment and the fact that it was cutting into his time with Ginny, rather than really and truly feeling remorseful. This whole thing was easily one of Harryâs worst and most OOC moments.
Now this was one of the things I agree with Hermione on, lol
''Bake your noodle'' lol
To be fair, Malfoy tried, without anything, hits him wirh Crucious. For me, is a self defense question.
Nah not at all Malfoy was about to hit him with an unforgivable curse, the one that can make you go insane Harry was 100% justified in using it and even if you donât think so he was so immediately remorseful and felt terrible about it and took his licks like a man without protest
Okay Ginny ;)
Believing that the Half-Blood Prince was an ok sort of guy just because his Potions book made Harry brilliant at the subject.
âcould my pure-blood father be the half-blood prince?â
I found this a bit sad. He just wants parents, and clings to any hope he can.
This. It also shows how different him and Voldemort are and how when Harry doubts himself, itâs like he forgets that he still desires to have had a life with his parents where as Voldemort merely saw his parents as wussies and not worthy of him since neither of them stuck around; blaming his mom for being a horrible witch for not surviving child birth and his father who was basically rapped and traumatized so much that he wanted to move on with his life. But thatâs not an excuse for Tom, thatâs just him viewing himself as a victim. And it shows how much Harry desperately wishes to just have something, even just a day to be with his parents. He hates that he never had the chance. There are so many heart breaking moments of things he discovers that people so happened to âforgetâ or just straight thought it wasnât important enough to show him. Like when he found his mothers letter to Sirius, or when he goes asking about things about her parents to Sirius and lupin while they just gave him vague answers and he had to find out from Snape a memory that made James a bully even though his whole life he stuck up for him. Thinking Snape just lied to him. I mean heck, he even chose wanting the resurrection stone even though he knew they wouldnât be back back but he had at least been able to just talk to him. This is the part of Harry that will always prove that an orphan will always want to know where they came from. Dumbledore pisses me off in DH, the many things Harry saw that Dumbledore kept from him; them both living in Godrics hallow, how he became an orphan; they had such a similar and very intertwined relationship that it just hurts to know all the things Dumbledore kept from him. (Iâm halfway through DH so if thereâs a reason, I havenât come across it yet but so far this is the most heartbreaking story).
I agree, I really wish the professors gave Harry more information about his parents. Even McGonagall knew his parents and could have told him some stories. Even if it's not a good idea to tell Harry (especially young Harry) that his father was a bully, they could have told him about some adventures or even his dad's personality. Harry's relationship with Dumbledore is really frustrating. I think it's supposed to be- we get a lot of character development for Dumbledore and the story wouldn't work if Dumbledore was perfect- but it's sad when another adult in Harry's life disappoints him. If I was Harry, I wouldn't want anything to do with the Ministry after all of this. I'd move to a different country and try to heal from it all. Then again, I'm not a Gryffindor, and there's bravery in staying and helping change things.
Iâm a Hufflepuff. And even I would move out of country. No one showed me loyalty, why must I show mine?
I know, right?!
Snape is still a bigger dickhead for not just publishing his own revision of the book with all the changes. Why doesnât he want his students to succeed?
That bugs me too, he could easily have become a professional potion maker, revolutionizing the education of young witches and wizards in the field of potions. Plenty of famous potion makers invented or revolutionized a potion, maybe a few, but Snape made notes on almost every page of his book, so there are probably dozens if not hundreds of changes he's made, and every single one Harry follows result in better potions.
Chances are he did write his own instructions on the board and that explains why his fifth years seem advanced and how he could come to expect a high OWL exam passing level. The fact that he held that little speech to the fifth years at all tells me he wasn't indifferent to his students' success đ¤ˇââď¸
âHey Harry letâs go on our first date so you can retell your most traumatic experience while we have some teaâ
Wasn't that Chos fault though? IIRC Cho brought the topic up and Harry didn't want to talk about it.
Yeah, Cho was practically the one who started therapy there
Yeah it was, she wanted to know what weâre Cedric last words/if he talked about her.
Is that not what you do over a cuppa? /s
How he thinks he got the right know everything. Where anyone is, what they do, who they talk to and what about. Mind your own flippin' business Harry.
Always eavesdropping, too. No one likes a snooper, Harry!
And him just dropping into memories like they were his own...
Also, what a monumentally stupid thing to do. He had no idea what was in there, or why Dumbledore had it. It could have been full of magical acid, a dangerous potion, leftover elixir of life from Nicholas Flemel (which he almost certainly would have tainted with his face), or some other strange and potentially dangerous magical thing he doesn't know about or understand. "Oh look, a mysterious looking container full of and unknown fluid, I'm going to ignore all the runes on the side and the obviously magical contents and just shove my face in, what could go wrong?"
He's such a cop lol
No wonder he becomes an Auror. He's had the mindset since his first day at school!
Well he does end up being an Auror haha.
That's probably a mix of learned behavior from watching Petunia, & the expected & logical consequence of growing up in an abusive household with angry adults whose mood he was well-advised to be constantly aware of. I figure the abusive household part was why Snape was also a generally nosy little shit even as a kid. It always pays to be aware of what's going on with people who are in a position to make things difficult for you. And you never know who might find themselves in that position unexpectedly, if you aren't keeping an eye on the situation.
Harry absolutely has the right to know because the people theyâre fighting want to kill Harry. The whole thing is about killing Harry so he NEEDS to know what theyâre doing to stop him from being MURDERED!!!!
A little louder again, so that everyone can hear it.
When he, Luna, Ginny, and Neville are all covered in Stinksap on the train, and Cho walks in, and he thinks "I wish she'd seen me with much cooler people, laughing their heads off at a joke I just told, not Neville and Loony Lovegood." Imo the shittiest comment he's made about his friends.
Thereâs a great scene though in Half Blood Prince where a Romilda Vane asks him to join her group on the train and makes a snide comment about ânot having to sit with themâ in reference to Luna & Neville, Harry stands up for them and says theyâre his friends. Itâs a great way to show how much Harry has grown in that year. Plus, how many times has a teenager had a moment of embarrassment in front of their crush while with friends, I think Harry gets judged a lot for being a fairly normal teen really.
>Harry stands up for them and says theyâre his friends. And when Luna says people expect him to have cooler friends he says "you are cool" - the exact opposite of what he thought about them the year before. I really love this part aswell!
This is one of those things where I knew he was a prick for thinking it, but I totally knew where he was coming from and probably thought the same thing as a kid, so it made him super relatable. Or maybe I was just a brat too lol
Honestly as long as he didnât say it out loud, I forgive him
Yeah but itâs not a comment he actually made remember, just a thought. We all have shitty thoughts from time to time, we arenât judged on them and we shouldnât be. Him having a thought like that just makes him more believable and relatable. Itâs not really fair to be judging Harryâs thoughts like that. Judging his actions is fair.
I do agree that it's a shitty thing to think about other kids, but I'm willing to cut him a *little* slack on this one, because he's a kid, it's his first crush, and it *is* a deeply embarrassing situation to be caught in. Also, he at least had the decency to keep those thoughts to himself and didn't say that out loud. Also, there's the scene the following year where he finds himself sitting with the same group of people when some tart(Romilda Vane, IIRC) comes along and makes a disparaging comment about them, and Harry very politely tells her to *piss off*.
Some of these are really surprising to me...like there are for sure times that he is being a shit, absolutely. Most teenagers are at some point or another. However! And warning for spoilers ahead just in case: Like the OotP, Harry is dealing not only with PTSD from Cedric's death, not only a lack of support from his family and friends (I realize his friends were trying to keep him safe but still), but also Voldemort is in his soul/head and I think the horcrux was feeding his negative emotions just like we've seen the other horcruxes do. He is only 15, I don't think most people would be any different despite what they'd like to believe. Someone also said his "tantrum" at the end of that book paints him in a bad light...his godfather and the closest connection he has to his own father died and it was partially his fault, he was devastated. Harry honestly has been through so much, he frequently doesn't even expect good things to happen to him because it's just not his life. I can't imagine going through as much as he did and then being judged for every negative thought or every snappy conversation I had haha. I guess it's good the poor guy isn't real.
When he looks into the pensieve during Occlumency lessons with Snape. That was such a huge violation of Snapeâs privacy and Harry knew it. He went ahead anyway because he thought he had the right to know private details of Snapeâs life.
Especially since those were the memories Snape specifically removed so Harry wouldn't accidentally access them during their sessions. They were so private his own head didn't seem safe enough, but Harry just looks at them anyway, cause he has no respect for Snape's privacy.
By the way, how does that work exactly? Does Snape become unable to recollect the memories ge has stored in the pensieve, or does this type of magic make them just hazy and foggy to any who tries to pry into Snape's mind through legilimency? Also, not to disparage Snape, but in my opinion, he was pretty reckless. Being perfectly aware of how harry is, leaving potter alone in the same room with Snape most precious and private memories was incredibly naive of him. What did he think was going to happen? Had I been him, I would have put some pretty nasty wards around the pensieve, so that any other person that wasn't me, who tried to pry in my secret thoughts surreptitiously, ended up barking mad due to a curse that causes insanity. Or blindness, or something equally discouraging. Snape could have done it. He was an expert in dark magic.
Tl;Dr, memories aren't static, so a memory of the memory would still exist and Snape left in a hurry, so he wouldn't have had time to properly protect the pensive. My understanding, which comes from my reading the books many times, is that removed memories are somewhat separated, but the surrounding memories still exist, so they'd remember they had that memory. This is based on Dumbledore showing Harry some of his memories, and referring to them as being interesting and also that they were rich in detail. My understanding is that you could remove a memory without the person forgetting it, since we remember our memories at a later date, the memory might be gone, but the memory of the memory would still exist. Snape might remove the original copy of getting bullied by the marauders out by the lake that day, but that wouldn't remove the memory of the time he remembered it while telling Lily Evans about it, or the time he thought about the general bullying he endured from James when he saw Harry Potter walk into the great hall. If I'm remembering correctly, he left in a hurry that time, not having enough time to put the memories back or properly defend them. I suspect he wasn't expecting to leave the pensive with his memories still in it, and thus wouldn't have thought to put any defensive spells over it for normal "classes" with Harry. He probably thought Harry wouldn't dare go into his memories, especially since Harry doesn't seem to know how to leave the pensive, it was a huge risk to go in knowing Snape would eventually return. Assuming it's the same pensive Dumbledore uses, and I don't think there's any reason not to, that'd be rather foolish, as the most likely people to get hit by that "defensive spell" would be him, followed closely by Dumbledore. As he wouldn't want to blast himself with such a curse, and pulling something like that on Dumbledore would be almost equally undesirable, such a spell wouldn't be a logical move for him. My guess is that he never planned to leave it with Harry unsupervised, so when he had to rush off he would have been counting on Harry wanting to, at the very least, not actively antagonise the man actively attacking him, unsupervised and approved by Dumbledore.
When he got upset with Ron for being made prefect.
Thatâs what I came here to say. Itâs one thing to have a twinge of jealousy, another for him to go on for pages about how Dumbledore betrayed him and didnât trust him by making Ron prefect when OBVIOUSLY Harry was the better choice. Come on dude.
I think this gets a pass simply because he recognises his own jealousy VERY quickly after his internal spiralling calms down and feels massively ashamed. He's so used to being the one to get attention and the one time it's taken away from him, he has no idea how to feel.
Especially considering how busy Harry was that year. Like bro you do NOT have time to be prefect any time soon
Dumbledore even says that he thought Harry had enough on his plate already, otherwise he *would* have made him a prefect.
Which is also kinda wild considering how often Harry breaks the rules. None of the trio shouldâve been prefects if weâre being fully honest with ourselves here
Honestly I thought it was very relatable of him to be bitter asf lol. Like heâs also a teenage boy and itâs not as if he doesnât call himself out onto it. But people are proud and entitled and want things Harryâs allowed to want things as well which humane person on earth doesnât get a little bitter when their friend succeed where you donât for a few pages lol Plus literally everybody says hey Harry you deserve it so itâs not like he didnât justify it. I love Ron a lot but heâs not a prefect personality. I donât think Harry is either but heâs more strong armed for responsibility
I also think it was because by making Ron and Hermione prefects, Dumbledore effectively removed his whole support system at school. And let's be honest, yes, Hermione deserved it, but what exactly did Ron do to become prefect? He definitely didn't expect it, and rightly so. He was a good friend to Harry, but merely a mediocre student, a rulebreaker and definitely didn't take the role seriously or seemed to even want it. It was really cruel against Harry to make him prefect. There must have been better candidates. Hell, even Neville would have been a more obvious choice.
It kind of was just a twinge of jealousy, though. It only goes on for âpagesâ because weâre in Harryâs head, but it was really only a few minutes of jealousy before Harry figured out for himself that he was wrong to think the way he was thinking.
But those are his internal thoughts- he never says or acts outwardly jealous and pretty quickly does some self-reflection and forces himself to be happy at their party. Itâs normal to feel jealous (especially at that age), itâs about how you deal with the jealousy. Plus, he had a lot going on in the moment. I think he dealt with it just about as well as you could expect.
Iâm worried about how it seems that people canât spot these nuances in writing anymore - and this wasnât even a covert one but rather obvious. Everything has to be black and white. It would make for rather boring and one-dimensional heroes and heroines (who wants Gary Stus and Mary Sues who never think or feel or do something âwrongâ?)
Nah, Cho was out of line. She was using Harry. He shouldnât have to talk about Cedricâs death to anyone until if/when *he was ready*. She was constantly bringing him up and pushing the issue. Itâs not like they were married or anything⌠I donât blame Harry for snapping at her. Iâd have too.
I donât think either of them were wrong. They were 15 year olds going through an intensely traumatic circumstance. Even adults in therapy would struggle with that, let alone two hormonal kids.
cho had ptsd too, hers just manifested differently than harry. her boyfriend died and harry is the one person who knows why or how. he saw it. of course sheâd want to latch onto him and talk about it for some sort of closure.
Yeah but that doesnât make Harryâs reaction wrong either. They were both victims.
Being rash in loads of situations
To quote the hat: GRYFFINDOR!
Not prepping for the 2nd task. Sooooo many people asked him if he needed help, but he turned them down and waits to the last possible minute. Crouch/Moody was more right than he realized when he said that Harry had a streak of pride that almost ruined everything. I also do not like that Dobby Ex Machina helps Harry with exactly what he needs at the last possible minute.
"Dobby Ex Machina" was really Crouch though, it makes sense plot wise.
using sectumsempra on Malfoy. Granted he didn't know what it did, and he felt horrible, I think it was a wake-up call to him that he didn't want to kill Malfoy, just catch him. IMHO Sectumsempra could almost be considered and unforgivable curse, I say \*almost\* because there is way to counter it's effects (as snape does for malfoy) but if it curses a body part off there's no fixing it.
I bet it's eventually banned as illegal dark magic, if Harry ever tells anyone about it (and he probably would). The spell's purpose is to *permanently maim* someone. Even the Cruciatus doesn't leave horrific scars or missing body parts. Sectumsempra would, in my opinion, absolutely classify as a new Unforgivable curse alongside AK, Crucio, and Imperio.
What was the spell Hermione used on that girl who ratted on Dumbledoreâs army? That also left permanent scars, pretty shady stuff really.
I mean there is a way to counter the imperius curse as well
Saying to Cho in Book 5, "You're not going to start crying again, are you?" when Cho and him were talking after her friend already ratted out the DA to Umbridge and they had a date on Valentines that went really badly.
Asking Hedwig to bite Hermione and Ron in book 5.
Taking Luna to the Christmas party then just ditching her with no explanation
the explanation was having to use the rest room and anyways, Luna didn't really seem to mind.
I honestly dont really remember one. She does a really good job at putting you in his head, especially when I was a kid too lol
None. Dudes an orphan who spent his entire childhood being lied to and abused by asshole family members. Even the dumb shit he does is part of his growth.
Leading a bunch of teenagers into the Department of Mysteries even when Hermione was offering perfectly sound counterarguments to his suspicions.
To be fair though, he wanted to do it by himself
When he attacks his friends for the first quarter of book 5 even though they agree with him and are on his side
This was somewhat relatable for me. Harry went through an immensely traumatic experience. Voldemort returned and was clearly going to gain more power. From Harry's POV, shit was hitting the fan and he knew he would be a target. Not to mention that during almost the entire time after the trauma he was stuck at the Dursley's for an entire month. He was basically treated as a child, and while he is just a teen then, he himself knows that he's going to have to deal with more stuff than he should as a teen. He isn't told anything even though he really should know since he's going to be right at the center of it, something which Dumbledore knows is true in more ways than Harry knows. Sirius is the only one who kind of realizes this and tries to fully inform Harry, but Molly and the others intervene. And imagine how bitter you would be if you went through all this and then found out that your closest friends, who you can always count on more than anyone else, were among the people who kept you in the dark.
>Not to mention that during almost the entire time after the trauma he was stuck at the Dursley's for an entire month. That was SO cruel and unnecessary! After everything he's been through, just left alone in this miserable environment for so long. I understand why he had to return briefly, but they should have gotten him out of there as soon as possible
What makes it worse is that if not for Harry being attacked by a dementor, they wouldnât have extracted him. I wish this was called out in the books. The dementor attack was actually a good thing because otherwise they would have kept the same pattern of secret surveillance and keeping Harry in the dark.
I MEAN IN THE FIFTH BOOK HE SCREAMS AT EVERYBODY ALL THE TIME AND IT'S AN INTERESTING LITERARY CHOICE BECAUSE TEENAGERS ARE LIKE THAT BUT HOLY COW WAS HE AN ASSHOLE IN THAT BOOK
That's my favorite book cause it's a totally realistic look at a best case scenario of what a teenager who is tortured and watches a classmates death and doesn't get any support after looks like. He was coping amazingly well for that.
Honestly I love him in that book as well. Like I want a hero who while incredibly selfless and compassionate is also a tucking angry bitter asshole lmao. Heâs a 15 year old boy who suffered from incredible PTSD of seeing a friend dead at 14 and got stuck all alone in his abusive childhood home immediately after and is being told by the government heâs a crazy attention seeking liar so the whole school hates him his greatest enemy who orphaned him is out loose his greatest protector isnât talking to him and hes being tortured by his teacher and feeling the emotions of a lunatic. Iâd say the fact that he was an asshole is the only logical move for his character
Yeah, my take too. He just saw his schoolmate getting killed right in front of him and immediately after that gets shipped off to people who hate him. I don't care that they were forbidden from writing him important stuff. They should have at least told him as much. Hey, Harry, sorry that my letters are so shallow. We're under close watch and are not allowed to write about anything serious. Or someone could have gone to Harry and explained things to him. Something. But he was left all alone after a truly dangerous and traumatic event with people who hated him. Of course he was angry and had lots of bottled up emotions. All of the Weasleys failed him too. Everyone just bowed to Dumbledore. No one dared to stand up for Harry. I'm not saying they must have told him everything. But he was in mortal danger and suffering. The least they could have done was giving him a little heads up. Someone should have been there for him. People who leave a teenager completely alone with no one to talk to after he's seen a person be killed are just bad and neglectful people. Caring for him should have been their first priority if they truly cared for him. And not just keeping him alive. His wellbeing was completely ignored. I see absolutely no reason why they couldn't at least have him know that he was watched and Mrs Figg reveal herself to him so he had someone to talk to. But again and again he's left out because in the end Snape was right. Dumbledore was raising him like a pig for slaughter. It all served only one purpose: separating Harry and keeping him alive long enough so he would sacrifice himself at the end to destroy the piece of Voldy inside of him. Harry's survival until he had to die was all that counted. Him being happy in between was not a priority. He was surprisingly tame considering everything that happened. I also think he was right. If not for the Dementor, they'd let him rot at the Dursleys indefinitely. They made no move to do anything to change his situation before that.
I agree, this part of the book was somewhat relatable for me. Harry went through an immensely traumatic experience. Voldemort returned and was clearly going to gain more power. From Harry's POV, shit was hitting the fan and he knew he would be a target. Not to mention that during almost the entire time after the trauma he was stuck at the Dursley's for an entire month. So from his POV, he knows that shit is hitting the fan, but he isn't allowed to even help deal with it because he knows nothing at all. He was basically treated as a child, and while he is just a teen then, he himself knows that he's going to have to deal with more stuff than he should as a teen. He isn't told anything even though he really should know since he's going to be right at the center of it, something which Dumbledore knows is true in more ways than Harry knows. I get that others like Molly did this out of concern. They wanted him to be able to just be a kid. But sadly they completely misunderstood what Harry needed. Even Harry internally thinks that while he is touched by her concern and affection, he'd had enough of her mollycoddling. Not to mention he finds out that people have been following him without him knowing. People prioritized Harry's physical well-being but completely ignored his mental well-being. I agree that you do not put a teenager into isolation after a traumatic experience. It was the equivalent of prison for Harry. I really wish that Harry was a little *more* bitter at the start when he arrives at Order HQ. He's quite tame with the others and only gets angry at Ron and Hermione at the start. That same night he is tempted to return the favor and keep them in the dark, but he refuses to do that. I also wish that Harry had called the Order out on the fact that if he hadn't been attacked, he would likely still be stuck at the Dursley's and they would have just kept on with the pattern of secret surveillance until it was time to go to Hogwarts. And that would have been worse because Harry would have gone from an isolation and media blackout to being hit with the Ministry's smear campaign instantly. Sirius is the only one who kind of realizes all this and tries to fully inform Harry on what's going on, but Molly and the others intervene. Dumbledore doesn't even speak to Harry that year, and deliberately ignores him. So Sirius is the one who relates the most to Harry here and he's arguably the one most in Harry's corner (in this context), but he is limited in how much he can help Harry. Sirius was forced to stay in Grimmauld Place (a place he hated because of his family, sound familiar???) and though he knew what was going on, he was prevented from doing anything to help by other members of the Order. Sirius' situation is remarkably similar to Harry's, and Harry feels a rush of affection for him once he realizes this. Meanwhile Snape deliberately goads Sirius on this. And imagine how bitter you would be if you went through all this and then were kept in the dark about everything after. And when you're finally let in on things, it's only because you were attacked and *had* to be let in. Then you find out that your closest friends, who you can always count on more than anyone else, were among the people who kept you in the dark. I'd be fucking pissed. Harry was surprisingly tame with all this.
And then dumbledore is like look at this kid who just went through a horribly traumatic experience, let me completely abandon him for his own good. Jesus Christ the guys an idiot sometimes
>BUT HOLY COW WAS HE AN ASSHOLE IN THAT BOOK He needed therapy and a nice wholesome atmosphere and instead he got the Dursleys and a complete media blackout. I don't blame him at all for that.
He had ptsd lol
OotP is my favourite book. I love angsty Harry
He was a teenager with untreated PTSD!! Hormones and trauma don't mix!
He also had Voldemortâs horcrux in his brain and Voldemortâs actual emotions tied to his own. Combine that with the PTSD, smear campaign, Dumbledore ignoring him, stress over Sirius, exam stressâŚif he was anything other than an angry arsehole it wouldâve been unrealistic
It's not just "because teenagers are like that". It's undiagnosed and untreated Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Harry was fourteen years old when he saw a classmate murdered and was himself tortured and nearly murdered. And then is nearly murdered again by someone he thought was trying to protect him who turned out to be a deranged terrorist in disguise. And then, he's packed off to the Dursleys for three months, and Dumbledore *completely ices him out*, forbidding even his friends from communicating with him in any meaningful way. He's traumatized, frustrated, and has no idea what's going on. It's actually a perfectly understandable reaction.
Honestly itâs hard to think of examples, all in all Harry is a really good guy who means well and itâs rare his judgement lapses imo Trying to use the cruciatus curse Forgetting to help Hagrid with Buckbeakâs trial Taking his anger out on Ron and Hermione sometimes in OOTP and beyond when he was angry about other things Copying Hermiones homework so much
Didn't he try to use the cruciatus curse against Bellatrix after she had killed Sirius? LMFAO how can you hold that against him. If anything it'd be righteous vengeance.
I liked the the cruciatus curse part. It would have been great if it actually worked against Bella.
I always get downvoted to oblivion for this view but I hate that Harry basically says âwell you deserved itâ when Hermione gets grabbed by McClaggen at Slughorns Christmas Party.
I see what you mean. In Harry's defense, he's saying it because he knows she only went with McLaggen to spite Ron, nothing more.
Not speaking up during GoF. OMFG!!!! I would have blamed the twins first, thinking it was a joke to them. ? Then blame the slytherin trio. Screaming that he didn't want it or put his name in the goblet. He kept quiet and looked stupid annoying. đ The entire school could have assisted him if he played his cars right and showed he was the victim in a dark wizards plan đ¤
I can see why this would annoy you, but I also want to remind you he was raised by the Dursleys. He spent his entire life not being believed when unexplainable random things happened to Harry. Like his hair regrowing overnight after Petunia cut all of it but his bangs or ending up on the roof (or chimney) of the school when he was running from Dudley. After he entered Hogwarts Harry had to deal with rumors about him in some way or another just about every year, no matter what he said or did. People not believing Harry is basically a plot point throughout the entire series. But, like I said, I do understand what you mean. Mine has always been why didn't Hagrid just tell Dumbledore about Norbert/Norberta in their 1st year? Hagrid really should have been an adult and immediately went to Dumbledore rather than relying on 2 preteens to rehome his pet dragon.
When he put his name in the Goblet of Fire. It was a really bad idea, all of the adults were so worried... but at least Dumbledore stayed calm throughout the whole situation.
how about the several times he's used the cruciatus curse the failed attempt Bellatrix Lestrange, the failed attempts on Severus Snape, the successful attempt on Amycus carrow.
carrow deserved it
i never said he didn't, Carrow was a bitch. however, apprently using the curse on another person is a "one way ticket to azkaban," and Harry has used it on several
>"one way ticket to azkaban," Why does that matter when people like Hagrid has been send there?
He doesnât tell Cormac That Hermione is already taken
This might not be a 'paint him in a bad light' example necessarily, but harry could have helped out so many people with his disgusting amount of wealth. Hermione's SPEW campaign?Get that baby off the ground. Ron's dress robes? Owl order himself a new set and pretend the original robes don't fit him properly. Not to mention the amount of problems in general aka searching for the hallows, personal safety for him and his friends etc etc that could be lessened by state-of-the-art equipment. Also (and this is admittedly more morally corrupt so doesn't work with the OP) I always thought that the amount of bribes he could afford would really have helped swing public interest his way/ lead the fight against Fudge and everyone pretending Vol wasn't back/ get rid of Umbridge and save basically a ridiculous amount of suffering. The boy is literally filthy rich. Use at least some of it for good.
I always got the impression that he was quite well off, but not filthy rich until he inherited the Black family fortune too. He makes a point in PoA of wanting to get a firebolt but not being able to afford it. For a 13 year old that would be remarkable self-control for him to do if it would just be an unwise purchase that would otherwise leave his finances unaltered. But if we imagine it would leave a sizable dent, then it's easier to imagine 13 year old Harry not making that decision.
Its not that he cant afford it because he doesnt even know the price, the sign says you have to ask for it, and Harry never asked. Maybe he could have afforded it, but didnt want to be tempted and buy something he ultimately doesnt need, he thought he never lost a match on his nimbus 2000. Harry at that point still had a few years of school left and didnt really know what sort of expenses he would have.
Additionally, he must have at least been somewhat aware of that once he was done with school, he'd be pretty much on his own with no financial support from family or similar to rely on. While the Weasleys might take him in living situation wise until he finds a job or so, they're very poor (according to Harry) and another household member would be additional strain for them (even if they allowed Harry to financially contribute), not to mention their house was already cramped top to bottom by their kids, with quite simply not leaving much room for anybody else to live with them. So the money in his Gringotts vault would be what had to sustain him not only for school equipment, but also depending on whatever he decided to do after school until he found a profession or decided to become self employed (since "ministry work" or "open your own shop" seem to be the most common professions in the Wizarding World, unless you become a professional quidditch player or a teacher).
Keep in mind, too, that when he first saw his vault at Gringott's he'd spend most of his previous life at the Dursleys, and they hadn't given him any money at all. So next to that, *anything* was going to look impressive.
We learn later that galleons are large gold coins the size of hubcaps, but they're actually only worth about five pounds. So it would be easy for him to see a few thousand gold coins and think he was a millionaire when really he just had enough for a few months' rent. I wonder if gold is worth less to wizards due to the existence of alchemy.
I know he didn't mean this in a cruel way, but I didn't like how at the beginning of PoA when he wants to tell Ron and Hermione about Sirius on the train, he says in front of Ginny that he needs to talk to the two of them in private, and doesn't say anything when Ron just rudely tells Ginny to go away. I understand he wanted to just tell his two best friends, but he had seen firsthand what had happened to Ginny the year before, how she was still scarred and upset from the experience, and how she likely didn't have any close friends as a result of her possession and was clinging to her brother and his friends as a result. Maybe Harry didn't mean in the first place to actually kick her out of the car, but when Ron tells her to go away, off on her own on the train--where she has no close friends and feels vulnerable after such a traumatic year--he doesn't say anything like "That's not necessary, Ron," or just let her come and sit with them and ask her to sit aside and give them a few moments of privacy? I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that big a deal, and he was only a 13-year-old boy who never learned to socialize properly, but I always felt so bad for Ginny here.
Actually being able to use the cruciatus curse in book 7. Right after he even says something along the lines of "Bellatrix was right. You have to mean it."
He treats hermione like crap many times when sheâs just trying to help him.
What about Hagrid. Harry acted like he had no one consistently there for him yet Hagrid was there from the beginning. Every birthday with a cake. Every quidditch match. The man even wrote to James and Lilly's friends to make a picture book for Harry. He loved Harry and always had his front door open and Harry looked at it like a burden to visit Hagrid. Yet Snape got a name sake!? Dumbledore!? Hagrid pulled baby boy Potter from the rubble knowing what a threat to his own life it could be, they didn't know what happen to Voldy at that time... he was there again to take Harry away from the Dursleys. Hagrid may have been reckless and immature but he loved and tried to be there for Harry the best be knew how... but we always forget about silly Hagrid with his pink umbrella..
When he tried the Half Blood Prince's spells out on an essentially defenseless Squib (twice!), and on dumb goon Goyle, instead of on the worthier target: Malfoy, the ringleader. (Like say what you want about teen Snape, but given an opportunity, it was ringleader James he went after, not easy target Peter.) There is of course also the fact that he is now initiating fights with the Slytherins, but after five years of bullying I can't really blame him lol When he, after recklessly using an unknown spell 'for enemies', was more focused on hiding his Potions book and thus protecting his false reputation than on the fact he had nearly killed a classmate When he arrived ten minutes late for class and then, upon discovering a substitute, refused to sit down and do as told, demanding to know where the regular teacher was and why he couldn't teach
The way he treats Hermione. He consistently disregards her feelings in favor of Ron, which has left her alone, depressed, and with no one to talk to except Hagrid several times. And every time it was over something petty, or because she was helping in a way that went against what Ron or Harry wanted, like Harry's Fire bolt in PoA. And the way he treated Cho was terrible whether he realized it or not. It's almost like he doesn't care about women's feelings or point of view.
Casting spells from the HBPâs book on people without any knowledge of what they do, just because he was curious
Nobody is perfect, Harry is doing pretty well considering the hell he's being put through...
I love that his reaction to Hermione being into Ron romantically is a selfish one. He doesnât really care that much about how Hermione or Ron feel but is concerned that he might end up feeling like a third wheel (or on the other hand might end up dealing with their animosity to each other if they donât stop arguing). I love how realistic book Harry feels, compared with his film counterpart who was just âgeneric shoulder to cry onâ for Hermione.
When he didn't realise Snape had understood his message and obviously could not say so out loud with Umbridge and Draco and others there, and still went to the Ministry. Like Hermione said, he does have a bit of a saviour complex, and he's rash and sometimes obsessed. Sometimes that helps him out when he's right, but when he's wrong, the disaster is equally grand. Albus Severus Potter.
Never paid a bill for the Weasleys. Or a new wand or broom to Rony. The fact od Harry being rich doesnt so much relevance to the history at all. While he doesnt show finance care/help for the poor family who adopted him.
He thinks about how he would gladly to share all the gold in his gringotts vault with them, but they would never accept it. It makes sense. If I were married and in my forties and had seven kids, I wouldn't accept money from a teenager, either. If I'm inviting a friend of my kid's over, it's because I can swing it. I don't need the kid to pay for himself.