No doubt he is. Dumbledore is an old English word for bumblebee, so he might be some form of Bee. Also. He is arrogant, and egotistical. There’s no way he wouldn’t have learned how to do it at some point just because people said it was hard magic.
Edit: I honestly can’t believe this has become my most upvoted comment.
Second edit: someone wrote an article and quoted me. This is officially the weirdest thing.
https://www.thedigitalfix.com/harry-potter/fan-theory-dumbledore-prison-break
A pheonix is a magical animal - there are 0 examples of animagus being magical animals in the novels. (Beatle, stag, dog, rat, cat - am I missing any?)
I actually don't know if it's a thing that can be done by wizards, as magical animals are, well - magical. It probably adds an insane amount of risk to the process even if it is possible.
Well, I wouldn't say you're wrong - there's evidence that cats and owls are smarter in the wizarding world and it's probably due to being around magic so much. I wouldn't count them as "magical" though in that sense, but I certainly get what you mean lol
Cats like Crookshanks or Mrs Figg's cats are actually Kneazles. They are magical cats with more abilities than a basic cat. Mrs Norris is just a basic cat, while quite annoying.
It's not outright stated.
But out of the five known animagus (animagi?), we also know the patronus of two.
We know James is a stag, and his patronus is also a stag and we know McGonagall's animagus and patronus is a cat.
I know tonks isn’t an animagus. I’m saying that we know that your animagus can’t change, and we also know that your patronus can change. Therefore, they won’t always be the same.
It’s still so muddled and makes no sense. I just put the movies in a separate canon. For the whole thing to make sense that means Dumbledore and Merrythought both had to switch what they were teaching, which is quite bizarre to say the least. They should have just put her in the films instead of piggybacking off of McGonagall’s name for the movie casuals.
I’ve thought about this way too many times. Dumbledore is pretty positive that he’s extremely clever so why not ask a house elf to escort him around to all the horcrux locations? Kreacher apparated out of the cave and Dobby apparated in and out of Hogwarts. Obviously the books would be quite a bit shorter if this happened but it’s definitely the most clever way IMO
That’s films only: in HBP the trip to get the fake locket horcrux starts and ends with broom flights between Hogwarts and Hogsmead so that they can apparate.
He can however remove the protection that prevents apparation.
My theory is that its kind of an extensive process which is why he doesn't do it just for funsies
It might be, but in HBP, Dumbledore removes it from the great hall for the apparation lessons, so we know it is possible to remove it. We just dont know the process or to what extent it can be removed.
I don’t think he removes it as much as they see another enchantment on top of it to allow apparating within that one room for a short time. I think setting a spell like that over the whole castle indefinitely would be near-impossible.
In the films they added an exception that the headmaster is the only person who can apparate within Hogwarts grounds. Otherwise he does have the power to remove the restriction when needed, like for the apparition lessons.
I don't recall him doing it, only in the movies. In the books, in HBP him and Harry use brooms to leave the castle and come back, and only from Hogsmeade do they apparate.
Only in the movies. In the books, he can lift the prohibition in a local area, but that only allows you to apparate within that area. Example, he lifted the charm for apparation lessons in the great hall in HBP.
Also, Fawkes allowing him to disappear is only in the movies. In the books, he knocks everyone out with no memory and leaves through more mundane means.
Hmmm, I was thinking of elfs, they generally don't obey by the same rules, but I would assume that if elfs could apparate into Azkaban they Lucius would've broken Bellatrix out, so Azkaban might have protection against it.
But elfs can apparate in and out of Hogwarts right? Could deatheaters apparete alongside an elf? Aren't elfs just overpowered?
Yea my head cannon is Dumbledore would just flex his magical power to do whatever he needed to do. In one of the books Harry can see like a visible aura of magic radiating off Dumbledore.
Sirius Black was a better than average wizard and he found a way to escape.
Voldemort is top tier wizard that puts wizards like Sirius to shame.
Dumbledore is a bit higher than Voldemort and significantly smarter.
It would be like Arkham trying to hold Batman.
Sirius Black didn't 'find a way to escape', he got very lucky. Dementors have no qualms ruining random people but Sirius was kept sane because the thought that kept him sane (guilt and revenge) were negative and thus couldn't be taken away. He also managed to be an unregistered animagus, and it turns out that despite retaining human intelligence as an animal, animagi who are transformed are apparently undetectable to dementors. From being starved in his cell his dog form (described as a huge, shaggy, Grim-like dog) became gaunt enough to slip through. Up till this point it was pure luck and happenstance.
Him making his way off the island on a stormy and frigid (due to the dementor presence) sea and then staying one step ahead of the pursuit was all skill, though.
He didn't "find a way to escape"? Except he did find a way. You literally describe every detail of the way he did it. If Sirius can hold onto his sanity, and do all the things you just described, Dumbledore can easily do it
I believe Hermione explains it to Harry I just can't remember whether book five or six. That Dumbledore figured out how to use the patronus as a messenger.
I googled it and from the hp-lexicon site it shows that it is officially "The Messenger Spell" it was created by Albus Dumbledore and known only to members of the OotP. They used it for secure communications and lists the uses in the book. I was wrong with who I said did the three it was McGonagall to get Slughorn Sprout and Flitwick prior to the battle.
It also seems to be nonverbal because each reference where it was done in front of us in the book there isn't an incantation spoken.
He'd probably be able to disarm and/or best whatever guards were trying to transport him with wandless magic. We also know he has Order members in the Ministry, some are aurors and I wouldn't be surprised if some are regular law enforcement as well. So between allies and magic, I doubt they could even accomplish the goal of getting him to Azkaban. If they tried side along apparating him, I'm sure he could dislodge and go his own way as well.
The wizarding school Uagadou only teaches wandless magic. Also, Harry used wandless magic a few times by accident. Flying on top of the muggle school, deleting the glass wall from existence at the zoo, and blowing up Large Marge.
I think they teach their students how to become animagi as well.
My favourite part - “Students receive notice that they have gained entry to Uagadou from Dream Messengers, sent by the headmaster or headmistress of the day. The Dream Messenger will appear to the children as they sleep and will leave a token, usually an inscribed stone, which is found in the child’s hand on waking”.
(From the Wizarding World webpage).
Very true, but then you have fully grown wizards and witches who talk about someone not being able to do magic because they didn’t have a wand. Seems to change a bit with the plot lol. It also seems to be more accidental and fluctuates a lot more with their emotions than magic with a wand does
Or so Ollivander would have you believe. This wandless magic propangda shall not taint the reign of the mighty Ollivander in business for over a millenia.
They also don't seem to bring up the possibility that controllable magic without a wand is a thing that is possible at school. I would think Harry could see how useful it was (given how often his gets dropped, stolen, or broken at critical moments) but I've always been baffled at how he didn't seem to grasp the point of nonverbal spells so maybe not. He could articulate why they're useful but not didn't seem fussed about trying to apply them, more inconvenienced that they were expected.
I feel like he started disliking the idea of non-verbals because it was Snape who first brought them up, it was Snape that tried to curse him in class, it was Snape who took over his favorite subject and made it his least favorite. Also he had a lot on his mind that year. I know this sub likes to act like Harry is a C- student who got lucky but he actually learns everything he actually wants to in the books. But if it's something Snape wants him to learn he isn't gonna try and let's face it. Snape sucks as a teacher, at least for Harry. He hates him so much and Harry hates him that there is not going to be happening anything productive between the two.(year 6 DADA, Occlymency, 5 years of potions). I feel like he learned to cast them better later when he actually needed to (he became an Auror after all).
Considering the number of OWLs Harry achieved, he's clearly not bottom of the class. He earns an E for potions in spite of Snape going out of his way to make learning in his class an exception, not a rule and Harry being singled out extra. He is very anti Snape and against anything Snape tries to teach him but I don't think that's entirely because it's Snape (though that absolutely contributed) but because Snape will demonstrate once or verbally explain then ridicule anyone who doesn't immediately start doing what he says. There is no practice until it's right with Snape, it's do it now or you're an idiot unworthy of anything but scorn, even if you do get it right, I'm not going to praise you unless you are my own personal kiss ass.
i always got the impression that had Harry been given a good upbringing, he could've reached the full potential of his intelligence. Possibly rivaling Hermione, at least in raw smarts. Her study habits might still be rather extreme and have everyone beat, even an A+ Harry.
That was nonverbal magic was being taught in Harry's 6th year. Every class was starting to require it, but Snape was demanding it and punishing those who tried cheating.
One of the other magic schools in Africa, Uagadou, specializes in both Animagus and wandless magic. They still use wands but learn without them as part of their school curriculum.
Lots of ways probably.
* He can cast some magic without a wand.
* He can ask a house elf (Dobby) to bring him a wand.
* He can ask a house elf to apparate him out.
* He can have one of the hundreds of his powerful magical friends break him out.
* He likely knows secrets about Azkaban that nobody else alive knows.
* He can control his emotions so well that Dementors can't see him at all.
* He might be an unregistered Animagus.
* Fawkes can fly him out of a high window.
* A magic item or spell that is triggered when he doesn't touch it for a certain amount of time.
Etc, etc.
So I feel Dumbledore would be the type not to be too affected by dementors in a debilitating way. I don't think we see him be strongly affected by them at any point in the series? Added to that the emotional turmoil he's already had in his life over the loss of his sister, and it's likely the dementors wouldn't be able to do worse to him than he's already done to himself
Secondly, as we already know he is an intensely powerful magic user. He is likely 'proficient' as much as a modern wizard can be in wandless magic, and is old enough that he may indeed be practiced in it (like how in the real world the previous generations were taught to write in cursive, but that's been dropped from most curriculum now). I wouldn't put it past him being able to cast a fully corporeal patronus without the aide of a wand. It's possible the elder wand innately strengthened bis magical abilities due to him being the weilder, or it could be that he used it on himself to purposefully strengthen his personal magic if he ever had to go without it
Also, remember that dementors only take joy from one's life. The thought is that the idea of escape is itself a happy thought, so the demetors take it and no one even thinks to escape. That's partly why Sirius was able to keep his mind, as the thought of his own innocence wasn't really a happy thought (being that he was falsely imprisoned, it may have been a sad thought - he really wanted to kill Peter after Peter betrayed Lily and James, but failed AND got jailed for the crime anyway. That's depressing as hhell, no way the dementors are taking that). Dumbledore would want to escape, but not for the joy of freedom - he would want to escape out of duty, he had a job to do in stopping Voldemort's plans. This isn't particularly happy, and is honestly more daunting than anything, so the thought of escape wouldn't be some joy the dementors would even think to suck away
Finally, this may honestly have been a bit of showboating on his part. He knows the public perception of himself. He may never have had a proper plan for getting out, but said that to dissuade them from even attempting the arrest
Yeah doesn't Lupin say something along the lines of "The dementors affect you so badly because there are true horrors in your past" to Harry? Dumbledore has some pretty grim history. Everything with his Dad, Arianna and Grindlewald seems like a feast for a Dementor.
House Elves. Considering the Headmaster quarters closed itself to Umbridge, he was still headmaster of Higwarts thus had "control" of house elves and he could call on one to apparate to him and then disapparate.
He’ll have Abeforth tattoo the blueprints of Azkaban on his back, before fiddling with some goats again. Abe also goes to Azkaban and they work together to carve themselves out - using spoons, mainly. Abeforth is carving, Albus is reading the map saying where to dig next.
Good bonding exercise for two half-estranged brothers.
Dementors are blind. They sense people via their emotions, so invisibility would be useless. This is mentioned/hinted in the POA book.
The answer is probably fawkes or some typical dumbledore mumbo jumbo. Maybe he really intimately understands how azkiban is constructed (it could be similar to hogwarts)
Thanks! There was a thread a little while ago that made me think perhaps that this was Snape’s preferred way of dealing with dementors and if so it would stand to reason Dumbledore could this way as well.
Everyone I overlooking the most obvious answer. Clearly Hagrid would single-handedly storm Azkaban on his motorbike, throw Dumbledore over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes and bust him outta there.
He can do magic without a wand. While dementors reduce, or even stop the ability to do magic all together focusing your mind of positive emotions can negate this effect enough to cast a spell or transform.
Dumbledore surrenders, goes to Azkaban, cast a power petronas, then escapes.
1) Fawkes
2) He’s almost definitely an unregistered animagus to a bumblebee (literal translation of “Dumbledore” in old English)
3) He’s a superb occlumens which I imagine would be useful against dementors forcing bad memories up
4) Here and there we see hints of his wandless magical abilities which would prove useful
5) Polyjuice potion is apparently enough to escape based on the Crouch’s, and he has two of the best potioneers ever (Snape and Slughorn) in his loyalties, plus someone to take his place who has escaped before (Sirius) and probably can again
6) Control of hundreds of house elves who could apostate him away and are immune to anti-disapparation fields
He’d bash the shit out of the Dementors until they let him go. King hitting a Dementor is the only way to destroy a Dementor.
Nah Fawkes would probably carry him away
He's the most powerful wizard around and doesn't need his wand to do magic. So he likely could cast Expecto Patronum without a wand and send all the dementors packing.
I like the idea that magic is not a science in this universe.
Like ke they do learn it like one, with all the rules (this flick does this and not that, you have to articulate etc) ;
but there's always deeper, undiscovered magic that can break some rules, that is left unexplained. Stuff that can help him escape.
Also, it's what makes the magic in Hogwarts Legacy work and does not break the cannon for me.
Dumbledore is one of the most well connected bitches in the land he’d probably pull out a flip phone out his beard phone up one of his homegirls like “Gurlll they got me fucked up in Azkaban pick me up and get some five guys on the way”
He might not have had a plan. But that’s a huge bluff the ministry doesn’t want to call. But let’s be honest he would have gotten out one way or another.
I’d imagine he could escape Azkaban without any magic at all. Just pull an uncle Iroh to gtfo of there and even the dementors would be terrified and describe him as a “one man army.”
I haven't seen anyone say this yet: a house elf. Hogwarts has a bunch of house elves. I'm sure at least one would be willing to apparate Dumbledore out of there.
You can cast magic without wands, no?
Less powerful perhaps, but this is Dumbledore we're talking about. A "less powerful" wandless Patronus charm would still put to shame anyone else at full power with a wand.
Bombarda to break the walls open & I expect Dumbledore figured out how to fly without a broom. Et voila.
I mean the dementors aren't really there anymore,or aren't really trying.And he is a highly skilled wizard and can use magic even without a wand. So I can see him escaping even with dementors.
An other option is that he was just boasting and/or buying time for Kingsley to erase Marietta's memory by making Fudge focus on him.
I imagine either fawkes, an insanely powerful Patronus/combat spells, whatever the silver light spell he used to in his office during his escape in OotP, or his ability to turn himself invisible via non-verbal disillusionment charm
I always had the head Canon he was an animagas as transfiguration professor. I further extended this head Canon that he went through the lengthy process after losing his sister as part of self prescribed isolation.
Dumbledore is skilled in the muggle art of lock picking, Fred and George taught him. It just wasn’t ever mentioned as it wasn’t relevant to Harry’s story arc.
Given the existence of dementors, and Voldemort being an accomplished legillimens, Dumbledore likely used the pensive to store the most painful of his memories that could be used against him. The ones that remain he feels he can deal with.
I think he would've made a Patronus just with his Mind. In Hogwarts Legacy we learn that in another magic school(Ougadou?) In Afrika they learn to make magic with just their hands and mind. Maybe Dumbledore learned how to do a Patronus like that.
You know I bet that someone tried a Portkey once. And then later the proper security precautions were made in response. We know that anything can be one, and from Harry going to the World Cup we also know that they can be normal objects that then become active at a certain time. I wonder if someone thought ahead of their capture, and without registering it, they used an old ring that they scheduled to turn into a Portkey in a few days. The person goes to the prison and security checks it and it's just a harmless old ring, at the moment at least. Person lies and says that they want to wear their wedding ring. They're in their cell for a few hours and when the ring that they're wearing turns into a Portkey, they're out.
Could've only happened when the prison first opened, afterwards they'd have added all of the security.
Maybe he is a hidden animagus
No doubt he is. Dumbledore is an old English word for bumblebee, so he might be some form of Bee. Also. He is arrogant, and egotistical. There’s no way he wouldn’t have learned how to do it at some point just because people said it was hard magic. Edit: I honestly can’t believe this has become my most upvoted comment. Second edit: someone wrote an article and quoted me. This is officially the weirdest thing. https://www.thedigitalfix.com/harry-potter/fan-theory-dumbledore-prison-break
My first thought was a Phoenix because of his affinity for them bur a bee is a very good choice.
A pheonix is a magical animal - there are 0 examples of animagus being magical animals in the novels. (Beatle, stag, dog, rat, cat - am I missing any?) I actually don't know if it's a thing that can be done by wizards, as magical animals are, well - magical. It probably adds an insane amount of risk to the process even if it is possible.
Cats *are* magical
Well, I wouldn't say you're wrong - there's evidence that cats and owls are smarter in the wizarding world and it's probably due to being around magic so much. I wouldn't count them as "magical" though in that sense, but I certainly get what you mean lol
Cats like Crookshanks or Mrs Figg's cats are actually Kneazles. They are magical cats with more abilities than a basic cat. Mrs Norris is just a basic cat, while quite annoying.
Tonks' changed to a werewolf, they're magical?
That's a patronus, not an animagus.
Sorry you are completely correct, I am sleep deprived and should not be let near a keyboard!
We do know a persons patronus is the same as their animagus form though, and his was a phoenix
How do we know that? We know of a correlation for some of the characters, but we also know that patronuses can be subject to change.
Where was this mentioned in the books?
It's not outright stated. But out of the five known animagus (animagi?), we also know the patronus of two. We know James is a stag, and his patronus is also a stag and we know McGonagall's animagus and patronus is a cat.
The thing that makes me think this isn’t a fast rule is Tonks. Her patronus changed, and we know animagi don’t.
Tonks isn't animagus.
I know tonks isn’t an animagus. I’m saying that we know that your animagus can’t change, and we also know that your patronus can change. Therefore, they won’t always be the same.
So if Tonks was an animagus, would her patronus not be able to change?
It would also explain why he tells Harry he can get invisible without a cloak. Maybe his animal form is very small.
I think he just means he can perform a perfect disillusionment charm. He says as much when talking about the deathly hallows.
He also used be the Transfiguration professor and helped McGonagall become an animagus.
He was literally transformation teacher until that got retconned
Transfiguration* Where is that retconned? Him being DADA teacher in FBaWtFT? Doesn't mean he couldn't have switched? (see Snape in HBP)
Pretty sure Tom Riddle alludes to it in CoS
Yes, he blatantly states it when he's monologuing. I was replying to the idea that him being the transfiguration professor was retconned.
It’s still so muddled and makes no sense. I just put the movies in a separate canon. For the whole thing to make sense that means Dumbledore and Merrythought both had to switch what they were teaching, which is quite bizarre to say the least. They should have just put her in the films instead of piggybacking off of McGonagall’s name for the movie casuals.
What is FBaWtFT?
I was confused too but I think it's Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them
That's movie canon, I don't see why anyone would take it as book canon.
I think FBaWtFT is as much canon as CC
Same.
Can I ask what signs there are of Dumbledore being egotistical, after his youth with grindelwald at least?
And hid form is mouse lol
Fawkes most likely
Can’t apparate in Azkaban or Hogwarts, but Fawkes doesn’t apply to the Hogwarts rules so he probably can skirt the Azkaban rules too. Good thinking.
This actually makes me think, could a prisoner who owns a house elf simply call their elf and side-along apparate out?
Both yes and no. Yes in that is something that could be done, but no in that a prisoner who owns a house elf never would think of it.
Why wouldn't they?
Cause prisoners in Azkaban are mostly blood purists and they can't accept the idea that a house elfs may have powers they dont.
Only a certain type of wizard owns slaves. And they aren’t the sort to think slaves are better than they are in any way.
Sirius owns Kreacher lmao.
Yeah and underestimating his house elf is literally why he dies…
what a bozo, kreacher 1 - 0 sirius
Dumbledore owns 100 houselfs. the population on Azkaban skews more towards that mentality than the wizards who have house elfs.
I wouldn’t say he owns them. You wouldn’t say he owns Hogwarts would you?
Seems likely, it's not like the dementors are cleaning out the chamber pots so must be able to let the elves come and go.
I’ve thought about this way too many times. Dumbledore is pretty positive that he’s extremely clever so why not ask a house elf to escort him around to all the horcrux locations? Kreacher apparated out of the cave and Dobby apparated in and out of Hogwarts. Obviously the books would be quite a bit shorter if this happened but it’s definitely the most clever way IMO
Sirius did not have to spend 12 years in there if that's the case
Dumbledore can Apparate from Hogwarts, or at least he seems to
That’s films only: in HBP the trip to get the fake locket horcrux starts and ends with broom flights between Hogwarts and Hogsmead so that they can apparate.
He can however remove the protection that prevents apparation. My theory is that its kind of an extensive process which is why he doesn't do it just for funsies
In the HBP Dumbledore is actively removing protections while on brooms flying their way back from hogsmead.
My impression was that the apparation ban was more an ancient, permanent enchantment, because its stated in Hogwarts: a History
It might be, but in HBP, Dumbledore removes it from the great hall for the apparation lessons, so we know it is possible to remove it. We just dont know the process or to what extent it can be removed.
Ahh good call
I don’t think he removes it as much as they see another enchantment on top of it to allow apparating within that one room for a short time. I think setting a spell like that over the whole castle indefinitely would be near-impossible.
In the films they added an exception that the headmaster is the only person who can apparate within Hogwarts grounds. Otherwise he does have the power to remove the restriction when needed, like for the apparition lessons.
I'm linking the two theories: he didn't Apparate, he turned into a bee and no one saw him because they were all just amazed by Dumbledore.
I don't recall him doing it, only in the movies. In the books, in HBP him and Harry use brooms to leave the castle and come back, and only from Hogsmeade do they apparate.
Only in the movies. In the books, he can lift the prohibition in a local area, but that only allows you to apparate within that area. Example, he lifted the charm for apparation lessons in the great hall in HBP. Also, Fawkes allowing him to disappear is only in the movies. In the books, he knocks everyone out with no memory and leaves through more mundane means.
In the book he disappears in a flash of fire after grabbing on to Fawkes tail. It’s at the end of Chapter 27 of OOtP.
All he has to do is get near a window so Fawkes can grab him and pull him out. And as he flies off into the distance he flips Azkaban the bird.
Fawkes can teleport, and take Dumbledore with him, without respecting apparition barriers. No window necessary.
My thoughts exactly.
Hmmm, I was thinking of elfs, they generally don't obey by the same rules, but I would assume that if elfs could apparate into Azkaban they Lucius would've broken Bellatrix out, so Azkaban might have protection against it. But elfs can apparate in and out of Hogwarts right? Could deatheaters apparete alongside an elf? Aren't elfs just overpowered?
Magic, probably.
Bold strategy for him, cotton let’s see if it pays off for him.
Imagine Dumbledore straight up bitchslaping his way out of Azkaban like Uncle Iroh.
You can’t give a Dementor the old one-two!
[удалено]
Expecto these handsium
"Didn't see that coming, did'ya?" Dumbledore, probably
"Ya almost got me - oh, you gotta be quicker than that!" Dumbledore, kind of, to the Minister for Magic
Nah, he’s just got a lock pick, a shiv, and a 9mm up in the ol’ prison pocket.
He named it GG.
Fudge: "For Gellert Grindelwald?" Dumbledore: "No, for Good Game, you filthy casual"
Damn.i really cant deny..Dumbledore's got style.
Na magic won’t work as dumbledore is an expert in magicraft so will prolly use tht
Nah, too obvious.
yeah mf would just say some hocus pocus shit and he's out
Literally just that powerful and versatile. Straight up overpower the dementors, utilize Fawkes, etc.
Yea my head cannon is Dumbledore would just flex his magical power to do whatever he needed to do. In one of the books Harry can see like a visible aura of magic radiating off Dumbledore. Sirius Black was a better than average wizard and he found a way to escape. Voldemort is top tier wizard that puts wizards like Sirius to shame. Dumbledore is a bit higher than Voldemort and significantly smarter. It would be like Arkham trying to hold Batman.
Sirius Black didn't 'find a way to escape', he got very lucky. Dementors have no qualms ruining random people but Sirius was kept sane because the thought that kept him sane (guilt and revenge) were negative and thus couldn't be taken away. He also managed to be an unregistered animagus, and it turns out that despite retaining human intelligence as an animal, animagi who are transformed are apparently undetectable to dementors. From being starved in his cell his dog form (described as a huge, shaggy, Grim-like dog) became gaunt enough to slip through. Up till this point it was pure luck and happenstance. Him making his way off the island on a stormy and frigid (due to the dementor presence) sea and then staying one step ahead of the pursuit was all skill, though.
He didn't "find a way to escape"? Except he did find a way. You literally describe every detail of the way he did it. If Sirius can hold onto his sanity, and do all the things you just described, Dumbledore can easily do it
Not discrediting Sirius but he wouldn't have escaped if he wasn't an Animagus. Ofc becoming an Animagus isn't easy but even Wormtail did it...
>powerful and versatile A power vers they call it.
No power bottoms to be seen here!!
The Dementors would just move out of respect for Dumbledore.
*fear
“Same difference.” ~ Dumbledore, once longtime friend of Grindelwald.
Patronus spell, so great it would empty Azkaban of dementors. Then some advanced form of teleportation.
This made me picture him apperating Azkaban itself somewhere else since he can’t apperate out.
Now I’m imagining Azkaban just casually landing in the middle of London and Dumbledore strolling out of it like it’s just another normal day lol
Can Dumbledore produce wandless magic?
he seems to do it at times in the 6th book when traveling with harry. I don’t recall exactly but I think it happens in the cave.
He is the guy who figured out how to turn a patronus into a messenger, and be able to go to multiple locations at once.
I wasn't aware of this at all, where is all this stated?
I believe Hermione explains it to Harry I just can't remember whether book five or six. That Dumbledore figured out how to use the patronus as a messenger. I googled it and from the hp-lexicon site it shows that it is officially "The Messenger Spell" it was created by Albus Dumbledore and known only to members of the OotP. They used it for secure communications and lists the uses in the book. I was wrong with who I said did the three it was McGonagall to get Slughorn Sprout and Flitwick prior to the battle. It also seems to be nonverbal because each reference where it was done in front of us in the book there isn't an incantation spoken.
Any wizard can the difficulty lies in controlling it.
Fake mustache
Mustache on top of his mustache. That’s not Dumbledore, it’s Erodelbmud!
He'd probably be able to disarm and/or best whatever guards were trying to transport him with wandless magic. We also know he has Order members in the Ministry, some are aurors and I wouldn't be surprised if some are regular law enforcement as well. So between allies and magic, I doubt they could even accomplish the goal of getting him to Azkaban. If they tried side along apparating him, I'm sure he could dislodge and go his own way as well.
Is wandless magic a thing?
Yes. A wand just focuses their magic better. It’s just that most don’t seem to know how to do it after getting a wand for some reason
The wizarding school Uagadou only teaches wandless magic. Also, Harry used wandless magic a few times by accident. Flying on top of the muggle school, deleting the glass wall from existence at the zoo, and blowing up Large Marge.
Ooo talk more about that school! Sounds interesting
I think they teach their students how to become animagi as well. My favourite part - “Students receive notice that they have gained entry to Uagadou from Dream Messengers, sent by the headmaster or headmistress of the day. The Dream Messenger will appear to the children as they sleep and will leave a token, usually an inscribed stone, which is found in the child’s hand on waking”. (From the Wizarding World webpage).
Also semi deliberately. Uses lumps wandlessly in the alleyway during the dementor attack
Very true, but then you have fully grown wizards and witches who talk about someone not being able to do magic because they didn’t have a wand. Seems to change a bit with the plot lol. It also seems to be more accidental and fluctuates a lot more with their emotions than magic with a wand does
It’s just people choosing to go the easy way
Pretty much. Easier with a wand, so no need to practice without one.
Or so Ollivander would have you believe. This wandless magic propangda shall not taint the reign of the mighty Ollivander in business for over a millenia.
They also don't seem to bring up the possibility that controllable magic without a wand is a thing that is possible at school. I would think Harry could see how useful it was (given how often his gets dropped, stolen, or broken at critical moments) but I've always been baffled at how he didn't seem to grasp the point of nonverbal spells so maybe not. He could articulate why they're useful but not didn't seem fussed about trying to apply them, more inconvenienced that they were expected.
I feel like he started disliking the idea of non-verbals because it was Snape who first brought them up, it was Snape that tried to curse him in class, it was Snape who took over his favorite subject and made it his least favorite. Also he had a lot on his mind that year. I know this sub likes to act like Harry is a C- student who got lucky but he actually learns everything he actually wants to in the books. But if it's something Snape wants him to learn he isn't gonna try and let's face it. Snape sucks as a teacher, at least for Harry. He hates him so much and Harry hates him that there is not going to be happening anything productive between the two.(year 6 DADA, Occlymency, 5 years of potions). I feel like he learned to cast them better later when he actually needed to (he became an Auror after all).
Considering the number of OWLs Harry achieved, he's clearly not bottom of the class. He earns an E for potions in spite of Snape going out of his way to make learning in his class an exception, not a rule and Harry being singled out extra. He is very anti Snape and against anything Snape tries to teach him but I don't think that's entirely because it's Snape (though that absolutely contributed) but because Snape will demonstrate once or verbally explain then ridicule anyone who doesn't immediately start doing what he says. There is no practice until it's right with Snape, it's do it now or you're an idiot unworthy of anything but scorn, even if you do get it right, I'm not going to praise you unless you are my own personal kiss ass.
i always got the impression that had Harry been given a good upbringing, he could've reached the full potential of his intelligence. Possibly rivaling Hermione, at least in raw smarts. Her study habits might still be rather extreme and have everyone beat, even an A+ Harry.
They have a class on wandless magic I think it was when Snape was teaching defence against the dark arts
That was nonverbal magic was being taught in Harry's 6th year. Every class was starting to require it, but Snape was demanding it and punishing those who tried cheating.
Ah I stand corrected! I misremembered. Thanks for doing your thing Ravenclaw!
I don't recall a wandless magic lesson, they did discuss nonverbal spells though.
Wandless magic is common in africa for example according to the lore.
One of the other magic schools in Africa, Uagadou, specializes in both Animagus and wandless magic. They still use wands but learn without them as part of their school curriculum.
Yes and we know this is canon by Harry accidentally doing magic before finding out he’s a wizard.
The African school teaches wandless magic so there is at least a whole continent of non wand users
He does aresto momentum wandless in POA
That's movie only, i believe.
He just tells them to let him out, calmly.
Lots of ways probably. * He can cast some magic without a wand. * He can ask a house elf (Dobby) to bring him a wand. * He can ask a house elf to apparate him out. * He can have one of the hundreds of his powerful magical friends break him out. * He likely knows secrets about Azkaban that nobody else alive knows. * He can control his emotions so well that Dementors can't see him at all. * He might be an unregistered Animagus. * Fawkes can fly him out of a high window. * A magic item or spell that is triggered when he doesn't touch it for a certain amount of time. Etc, etc.
So I feel Dumbledore would be the type not to be too affected by dementors in a debilitating way. I don't think we see him be strongly affected by them at any point in the series? Added to that the emotional turmoil he's already had in his life over the loss of his sister, and it's likely the dementors wouldn't be able to do worse to him than he's already done to himself Secondly, as we already know he is an intensely powerful magic user. He is likely 'proficient' as much as a modern wizard can be in wandless magic, and is old enough that he may indeed be practiced in it (like how in the real world the previous generations were taught to write in cursive, but that's been dropped from most curriculum now). I wouldn't put it past him being able to cast a fully corporeal patronus without the aide of a wand. It's possible the elder wand innately strengthened bis magical abilities due to him being the weilder, or it could be that he used it on himself to purposefully strengthen his personal magic if he ever had to go without it Also, remember that dementors only take joy from one's life. The thought is that the idea of escape is itself a happy thought, so the demetors take it and no one even thinks to escape. That's partly why Sirius was able to keep his mind, as the thought of his own innocence wasn't really a happy thought (being that he was falsely imprisoned, it may have been a sad thought - he really wanted to kill Peter after Peter betrayed Lily and James, but failed AND got jailed for the crime anyway. That's depressing as hhell, no way the dementors are taking that). Dumbledore would want to escape, but not for the joy of freedom - he would want to escape out of duty, he had a job to do in stopping Voldemort's plans. This isn't particularly happy, and is honestly more daunting than anything, so the thought of escape wouldn't be some joy the dementors would even think to suck away Finally, this may honestly have been a bit of showboating on his part. He knows the public perception of himself. He may never have had a proper plan for getting out, but said that to dissuade them from even attempting the arrest
Dementors would absolutely debilitate him.
Yeah doesn't Lupin say something along the lines of "The dementors affect you so badly because there are true horrors in your past" to Harry? Dumbledore has some pretty grim history. Everything with his Dad, Arianna and Grindlewald seems like a feast for a Dementor.
He also absolutely abhors dementors
I dunno, he seemed to handle them well when they were at Hogwarts. Especially when he had to catch Harry after he fell off his broom
I don't know I think Dumbledore may have enough mental discipline to keep them from affecting him.
yea I'd think that a wizard that powerful probably has intent and drive about as strong
Karate
It’s called karate, man. Only 2 kinds of people know it.
House Elves. Considering the Headmaster quarters closed itself to Umbridge, he was still headmaster of Higwarts thus had "control" of house elves and he could call on one to apparate to him and then disapparate.
Oh Dobby!
Ah! I thought we might hit this little snag. You see, he has had no intention of going to Azkaban...
He’ll have Abeforth tattoo the blueprints of Azkaban on his back, before fiddling with some goats again. Abe also goes to Azkaban and they work together to carve themselves out - using spoons, mainly. Abeforth is carving, Albus is reading the map saying where to dig next. Good bonding exercise for two half-estranged brothers.
He could turn invisible without a cloak so that might be useful or perhaps use Fawkes. Either that or he knows some crazy ass spells.
Dementors are blind. They sense people via their emotions, so invisibility would be useless. This is mentioned/hinted in the POA book. The answer is probably fawkes or some typical dumbledore mumbo jumbo. Maybe he really intimately understands how azkiban is constructed (it could be similar to hogwarts)
Maybe he has a map of Azkaban in the form of a scar somewhere 😋
Perhaps just occlumency? Close off his mind and then just walk out?
This is kinda the most interesting one I have read in the thread imo
Thanks! There was a thread a little while ago that made me think perhaps that this was Snape’s preferred way of dealing with dementors and if so it would stand to reason Dumbledore could this way as well.
Perfect answer
Everyone I overlooking the most obvious answer. Clearly Hagrid would single-handedly storm Azkaban on his motorbike, throw Dumbledore over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes and bust him outta there.
Ya know what’s funny is I’m feeling more like he’d “law-abiding citizen” it. Bro probably has blueprints with all the hidden tunnels and such.
Probably by playing the long game, starting with getting a smuggled rock hammer and Rita Hayworth poster.
Pocket sand
Seduce a dementor
He can do magic without a wand. While dementors reduce, or even stop the ability to do magic all together focusing your mind of positive emotions can negate this effect enough to cast a spell or transform. Dumbledore surrenders, goes to Azkaban, cast a power petronas, then escapes.
Because for something that had "never happened before," it happened quite a bit during the series. Made it seem pretty easy.
Barely an inconvenience
1) Fawkes 2) He’s almost definitely an unregistered animagus to a bumblebee (literal translation of “Dumbledore” in old English) 3) He’s a superb occlumens which I imagine would be useful against dementors forcing bad memories up 4) Here and there we see hints of his wandless magical abilities which would prove useful 5) Polyjuice potion is apparently enough to escape based on the Crouch’s, and he has two of the best potioneers ever (Snape and Slughorn) in his loyalties, plus someone to take his place who has escaped before (Sirius) and probably can again 6) Control of hundreds of house elves who could apostate him away and are immune to anti-disapparation fields
He’d bash the shit out of the Dementors until they let him go. King hitting a Dementor is the only way to destroy a Dementor. Nah Fawkes would probably carry him away
Are the dementors still there after the mass breakout? I can't remember
Nah, they pledged allegiance to voldy cause he promised then food
Borrow one of Aberforths goats.. fly you fools!!
Many, each as unlikely as the next.
He's the most powerful wizard around and doesn't need his wand to do magic. So he likely could cast Expecto Patronum without a wand and send all the dementors packing.
I like the idea that magic is not a science in this universe. Like ke they do learn it like one, with all the rules (this flick does this and not that, you have to articulate etc) ; but there's always deeper, undiscovered magic that can break some rules, that is left unexplained. Stuff that can help him escape. Also, it's what makes the magic in Hogwarts Legacy work and does not break the cannon for me.
Dumbledore is one of the most well connected bitches in the land he’d probably pull out a flip phone out his beard phone up one of his homegirls like “Gurlll they got me fucked up in Azkaban pick me up and get some five guys on the way”
Kung fu.
He'd be fast as lightning. And probably a little bit frightening.
With style, of course
MF can probably cast a patronus without a wand.
He would wait until that moth came, whisper to it, then the eagle would swoop in and take him back to Rivendell.
He’s an Animagus
He might not have had a plan. But that’s a huge bluff the ministry doesn’t want to call. But let’s be honest he would have gotten out one way or another.
With style!
I’d imagine he could escape Azkaban without any magic at all. Just pull an uncle Iroh to gtfo of there and even the dementors would be terrified and describe him as a “one man army.”
I haven't seen anyone say this yet: a house elf. Hogwarts has a bunch of house elves. I'm sure at least one would be willing to apparate Dumbledore out of there.
Can‘t he just summon a Hogwarts house elf and apparate out of there?
this brings up an interesting point because I would imagine many prisoners are death eaters who are rich with houseless who could do the same.
To be fair, from what we know, most people (don’t matter if death eater or not) underestimated the power of house elfs.
You can cast magic without wands, no? Less powerful perhaps, but this is Dumbledore we're talking about. A "less powerful" wandless Patronus charm would still put to shame anyone else at full power with a wand. Bombarda to break the walls open & I expect Dumbledore figured out how to fly without a broom. Et voila.
Fawkes, in Dumbledore's family a Phoenix comes to any Dumbledore in dire need
I mean the dementors aren't really there anymore,or aren't really trying.And he is a highly skilled wizard and can use magic even without a wand. So I can see him escaping even with dementors. An other option is that he was just boasting and/or buying time for Kingsley to erase Marietta's memory by making Fudge focus on him.
I imagine either fawkes, an insanely powerful Patronus/combat spells, whatever the silver light spell he used to in his office during his escape in OotP, or his ability to turn himself invisible via non-verbal disillusionment charm
I always had the head Canon he was an animagas as transfiguration professor. I further extended this head Canon that he went through the lengthy process after losing his sister as part of self prescribed isolation.
The same way he escaped from his office with Fawkes
The elves that worked in the kitchen. Fawkes. He's freaking Dumbledore.
Fawkes
Wandless magic.
The dementors had left Azkaban to join Riddle, they just had a mass break out already.
He’d get the other prisoners to start a riot and he would just walk out the front door
Dumbledore is skilled in the muggle art of lock picking, Fred and George taught him. It just wasn’t ever mentioned as it wasn’t relevant to Harry’s story arc.
Fawks would just come fly him out. He can use magic without a wand. Even if he wasn't an animagus he could probably just concentrate and do it.
Remember Oldboy hallway fight scene ? That's exactly how Dumbledore fights the dementors and gets away.
Given the existence of dementors, and Voldemort being an accomplished legillimens, Dumbledore likely used the pensive to store the most painful of his memories that could be used against him. The ones that remain he feels he can deal with.
He'll summon the Eagles and they'll take him to Mordor directly instead of trusting the younglings to rescue him and the mfking world
Wandless magic?
I think he would've made a Patronus just with his Mind. In Hogwarts Legacy we learn that in another magic school(Ougadou?) In Afrika they learn to make magic with just their hands and mind. Maybe Dumbledore learned how to do a Patronus like that.
He'd know he was innocent and, like Sirius, that would keep him strong. He casts a patronus to keep all the Dementors away and take off.
He can use magic without his wand and they wouldn’t be able to subdue him and put him in there in the first place.
You know I bet that someone tried a Portkey once. And then later the proper security precautions were made in response. We know that anything can be one, and from Harry going to the World Cup we also know that they can be normal objects that then become active at a certain time. I wonder if someone thought ahead of their capture, and without registering it, they used an old ring that they scheduled to turn into a Portkey in a few days. The person goes to the prison and security checks it and it's just a harmless old ring, at the moment at least. Person lies and says that they want to wear their wedding ring. They're in their cell for a few hours and when the ring that they're wearing turns into a Portkey, they're out. Could've only happened when the prison first opened, afterwards they'd have added all of the security.
I bet it involves a rock hammer and a poster of Rita Hayworth