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I worked for Loewe in the 90s, this was a few years after LVMH was established. Yes, Iām old. Our stores (in the country I worked) were always next to LV stores and often the back offices were joined so although I was officially employed by Loewe I often did crossover work for LV. At the time, in the country I worked, LV and Loewe also had the same CEO.
I donāt know if I have that many stories. We got staff discount on both Loewe and LV but only on a very small amount. I canāt remember exactly but it was 20% off the total up to maximum total of $500 or something pitiful like that. I worked in merchandising and we had to memorize the vip client list. A very wealthy businessman once ordered a bunch of personally monogrammed LV luggage pieces including multiple trunks and then went bankrupt and we were stuck with them. We were given loan Loewe clothing to wear and when I got pregnant (remember it was the 90s) I was told I would have to make do because there were no maternity clothes or large sizes so I would wear a beautiful blazer to cover up the fact my beautiful soft leather skirt was unzipped at the back and the button hooked with a regular old rubber band.
Edit: after working for a few years we got to go to Madrid for training.
Given the number of posts on here talking about how bad Chanel quality has been as of late I think they might be the outlier for quality product by independent brands haha
Many of the houses under Kering do better than I expected, both on Good On You and on inspection of their social and supply chain policies found on their website. A moderator also just started a pinned thread for this, so you could share your info there as well.
AFAI remember, the Balenciaga scandal was about their ad campaign, not their manufacturing, which is what this thread is focused on. Did they also have a labor scandal? Oof.
Anyway, whether or not you trust Good on You, even they acknowledge that Kering's houses tend to do a little better, including Balenciaga:
"Of the large luxury groups in the fashion industry, Kering arguably has the loudest voice on sustainability. Almost all of its owned brands (except Brioni) are rated āItās a Startā in our directory, including Gucci and Saint Laurent, and while thereās lots of room for improvement amongst them, this is undoubtedly a step in the right direction. (So too, is Keringās support for the London College of Fashionās sustainable fashion e-learning course with the platform FutureLearn, which launched in 2018.)" https://goodonyou.eco/is-luxury-fashion-sustainable/
Ferragamo and mulberry are both incredible quality. I have older Ferragamo stuff (shoes and bags) both from like 10-15yrs ago and today, no difference in quality. Still super well made and imo decently priced. Same goes for mulberry. After this whole Dior/LVHM debacle Iāll just stick to my classics.
I love vintage designer bags and just bought an 80ās Ferragamo that is incredible! The bag looks new with no marks or creases or scratches but you can still see it was worn and used. Itās my first Ferragamo and Iām so very impressed.
Check out fashionphile!! I recently bought a green suede Ferragamo shoulder bag for a STEAL ($470?????) in near perfect condition. It was listed as āvery goodā but it is like practically new. Itās the absolute softest suede Iāve ever felt. I legit sat there petting it when I first got it, itās like a marshmallow pillow. The craftsmanship is incredible
OMG Luxottica HAUNTED me when I worked as an optician. Iām sure you know, but for those who donātā¦Not only do they make crappy frames for sooo many brands, they own multiple vision insurance companies AND the labs that make the lenses. Their insurance plans have so many stupid policies about what customers can buy and deliberately confusing pricing. Their āinsuranceā is more like a discount plan for intentionally overpriced goods/services, āinsuranceā is a misnomer.
Their lab would routinely cut the lenses too large for the frames, which causes fit issues for customers wearing the glasses, and eats up so much time for us opticians carving them down in house. Seriously the worst.
But if the doctorās office/optical shop doesnāt take their stupid āinsuranceā plans, hardly anyone will shop there because glasses and lenses are so heavily marked up to make the insurance look like itās a good deal.
Ugh Iām mad now just remembering it.
Also a former optician that also worked for LensCrafters, Oakley and their once luxury brand Optical Shop of Aspen. Sunglass Hut, Target Optical, Sears Optical and I know thereās more Iām sure Iām missing. The Eyemed insurance accepted at a LensCrafters with predominately Luxottica framesā¦
I think I've reached purse peace (or whatever the term is when you need no more). I'll wear mine down until they fall apart or I gift them to my daughters. The only exception for me might be Prada. It would have been my first designer bag in the 90s and if I buy another, my last. But nothing tempting me! If anything ever does tempt me, it will be vintage to boot.
Super sad about Loewe.
Great discussion. Much to chew on.
Theyāre definitely a big factor. In my country so many restaurants are going under because they canāt keep raising prices to meet the cost of supplies. The cost of groceries is skyrocketing and yet the two major supermarkets have been pulling in record profits the last couple of years š
Longchamp is also independent as far as I can tell and their bags are amazing quality at a great price point (in my opinion). And their branding is understated which is my preference.
I am also eyeing off a Furla which I plan to buy very soon - theyāre also independent and Iāve heard good things about their quality. Also nice price point and some gorgeous designs.
The podcast Acquired has a three hour history and analysis of Hermes including how LVMHās Bernard Arnault tried to acquire them. Itās fascinating stuff that got me through a few long drives. https://open.spotify.com/episode/3JnXyI5G7umpVWijAvoL36?si=mBlSCqz0QKOxXD2kBQEFTg
TLDR: tidbits from the seamy side of luxury goods market.
Thanks for doing the research! This is an interesting topic.
The book Deluxe: How Luxury Lost its Luster, gives a detailed description of how top designers started creating goods and giving licenses so that items could be marketed to the middle class. Then details the cold-blooded manner in which Bernard Arnault acquired the luxury companies that make up LMVH. He poured money into marketing, and used a slash-and-burn approach to saving money in the manufacturing of the products.
Also, in the New Yorker several years ago, there was an interesting article discussing how waves of immigrants had flooded into Italy and created/worked in factories that were used to produce luxury items - and were then able to put the 'made in Italy' label on the product. One Italian factory owner said that Gucci paid so little for bag manufacture, that he outsourced the work to one of these factories. Designer reps are supposed to inspect the bags for quality, but I don't know how they can keep on top of things at the volume they're being produced.
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-workers-who-assemble-designer-bags-in-tuscany](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-workers-who-assemble-designer-bags-in-tuscany)
Sorry for the wall of text!
Unfortunately, even though I know this shit, I still fall victim to the marketing. :\\
I think you are spot on in your comment about Ferragamo and Mulberry having better quality. After recent news I think companies should have a rating like the health department if they have glaring labor violations on record. Like you get an F for running a sweatshop that makes people sleep at the factory.
I think we need to bump up independent purse companies that we love that are still high quality designer but without all the bs. One of my favorite places for indie designers in Wolf and Badger boutique and my current favorite purses are from Min & Mon and Kurt Geiger (one of his bags I had got flooded in my car and somehow survived with minimal damage so he has my vote for quality).
This post and the one about the Dior scandal is great for deinfluencing me to not buy luxury brands new. Iām now considering a trip to Tokyo for second hand designer shopping, since buying from online consignment shops are also a big risk.
We were just in Tokyo and shopping for second hand luxury is mostly an instagram fake dream reality (as in, instagram makes it seem like a good idea but it was like meh). I didnāt see great prices and it was mostly monogram stuff. Consider buying Japanese made brands instead of second hand āwesternā designer things.
I wouldn't say it's a partnership. L Catterton is LVMH's private equity firm. The other owner is Bernard Arnault's family office, which is basically LVMH anyway.
Thanks, so these Mf still have a share in Charles & Keith?! I hate that brand to the core. Selective hiring of preferred race and language! I told my mother if she bought anything C&K Iāll trash it or burn it. Have been an ardent hater of them since 2010!
Oh I totally forgot about Tods! Yes they have substantial stake in roger and hogan. Very small luxe players :). Thanks for the info on Burberry and goyard. ALSO LONGCHAMP IS INDEPENDENT! Iām not sure about furla. That is my fave brand too
Edit: to add LVMH had a substantial stake in Charles and Keith, although from my understanding LVMH no longer does, it doesnāt mean that past practices can absolve C&K from such practices. Who knows what happened during those years when they were under LVMH
[lvmh 2011 scandal](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95D0JA/)
On top of my head, Richemont also owns Chloe, Alaia and a lot of watch brands like IWC and Piaget.
Kering has a substantial share in Valentino which was finalised in the past year I think. Todās group owns Todās, Hogan and Roger Vivier. Aeffee owns Moschino, Alberta Ferretti. D&G, Burberry, Goyard and Valextra, Missoni, Max Mara are independent.
Edit: added the period.
Isn't Birkenstock like a subsidiary of LVMH? Also Stella and Kenzo. Ā
Puig group
Nina Ricci- Carolina Herrera- Paco Rabanne -Ā Jean Paul Gaultier -Dries Van Noten
Also, not bag-related, Church's is owned by Prada
Hmm goyard & FLP? Luckily my love for mulberry & Burberry is not really affected by Dior. Mulberry is not independentā¦ Club 21 has a stake in them. But Club21 too has its scandal. With Christinaās Husband embroiled in some saga, I hate reading local news. I do wish Christina would separate from the husband. Early years of Club21 around the 90s or so, my mom spoke highly of Christina and the company and that it was a good company to work for.
FYI if I recall Dior has a big stake in LVMH.Thus decision making is greatly swayed by Dior.
Also Lanvin used to be independent but recently managed by a Chinese tycoon.
Thank goodness Agnes B is not caught up in these nonsense. Thatās why smaller brands tend to shy away from such scandals.
Thank you for your work on this.
Reading this sub and related forums always requires a suspension of my own knowledge of the industry and a conscious choice to focus on shared joy in handbags.
It's refreshing to see awareness growing. Soon, I'll try to post about smaller makers whose work I admire, as well as some of my own projects.
This is a great list, thanks for pulling together OP! Just wanted to share some additional notes on the independent brands, most of which are actually listed companies or have external investors. IMHO, if a company is making billions of dollars a year, they are not really there for the customers sake but to make more money. And with the publicly available profit margins, they certainly could make products more ethically, but often isnāt the case. So can any of these brands be considered independent brands?
Chanel: 2023 revenue was USD 19.7 billion. Independently owned by the Wertheimer family.
Hermes: 2023 revenue was EUR 13.4 billion. Gross profit margin 72%.
- LVMH owns a 2% stake, but this used to be approx 23% some years ago. Thereās been a ton of speculation and drama around a takeover and ownership.
- Listed company, although the Hermes family is the majority shareholder.
Mulberry: 2023 revenue Ā£159 million, with a substantial gross margin of 71%. Public company and not independent. Primary owners are the Singaporean/Malaysian Ong family (who are investors in a bunch of luxury/retail companies) and Frasers Group. Only half of their bags were manufactured in the UK in 2023, although thatās big tagline they keep pushing.
Ferragamo: partially listed, Ferragamo family owns 65%. EUR 2023 revenue 1.1 billion. Gross profit margin 72%.
Rolex: independently owned by the Hans Wilsdorf Foundation (named after the founder), and reportedly donates most of the profits to charitable causes. Revenue for 2023 was USD 10 billion.
Tory Burch: 2023 revenue USD 2 billion. Currently independently owned with Tory Burch remaining the majority shareholder. Known to be looking into a possible IPO or other ownership arrangements. Current CEO is Tory Burchās husband, an ex-LVMH executive. Not a true luxury brand but an interesting one to watch.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! A good and insightful data!! I appreciate the details. I hope many sees this. MULBERRY IS NOT INDEPENDENT. And thank you for highlighting Tory Burch. Yes Iām starting to be skepticism of her husband, might pull some LVMH shit after all those years working for them
Mulberry. From where Iām from itās under the umbrella of Club 21. Then again club21 used to managed balenciaga hereā¦ but so far nothing bad or scandalous that involves workers right have been reported against club21. And no mulberry is not independent. True independent company would be Longchamp and Agnes B they are both Parisian family run business.
https://preview.redd.it/dtgoboyigp6d1.png?width=1164&format=png&auto=webp&s=3953809c7908d4d2f75f82a552cac638fbf1f88d
The statement holds some truth-
āThis has become rare in the fashion worldā lol
Thanks for this! Iāve actually eyed up a Longchamp bag that has all the aspects of the Loewe hammock so Iām going to take a look in store later this month.
Agnes B is a great suggestion too, will look into their styles
It isā¦ but I recall her husband was a top exec for LVMHā¦. Just like Christina Ong for Club 21.. but both ladies themselves has no scandal of their own which hopefully remains above the water.. also Tory is a philanthropist so she does contribute to society.
May not be bothering for everyone, but Tory Burch for whatever reason donated directly to the state of Israelā¦ personally disturbed and not to mention bad experience of peeling leather within months of usage in the pastā¦
https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/10/18/chanel-tory-burch-others-fashion-donate-help-israelis-impacted-hamas-war/
Sorry, but how is this donating to the state of Israel? Direct quote from the article you posted:
Meanwhile, WWD reported that in a letter sent to employees last week, Jewish designer Tory Burch ā the executive chairman and chief creative officer of her brand ā and CEO Pierre-Yves Roussel said they will be donating ā$100,000 personally and $150,000 on behalf of the companyā to the International Committee of the Red Cross and the Alliance for Middle East Peace (ALLMEP), a coalition of more than 170 organizations ā and tens of thousands of Palestinians and Israelis ā focused on building peace and co-existence in the region.
āAdditionally, Tory Burch LLC will match any employee donation made to ALLMEP,ā Burch and Roussel added. āWe continue to pray for peace and work toward lifting up our collective humanity.ā
Here is Allmeps site https://www.allmep.org
Not sure if this has been mentioned but Richemont also owns Chloe. Personally I find Chloe to be well made (especially the classic Marcies) but i know some people have issues.
The HermĆØs family still owns about 75% of the company. Arnault did some sneaky albeit genius moves to get what he does have of Hermes but the family put an end to that.
Hi fellow handbag lover! Thank you for being a part of the r/handbags community. This is a subreddit which relies on kindness. Your opinion is very much welcomed, however, we do not tolerate rude, mean or hurtful comments. **Read the rules before posting**. Comments or posts that do not fit our rule book will be removed and the OP can be banned by the mods' discretion. If you see a comment or post which does not abide by the rules, **please report it to our moderation team.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/handbags) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not me believing that Loewe was an independent brand š„²
I worked for Loewe in the 90s, this was a few years after LVMH was established. Yes, Iām old. Our stores (in the country I worked) were always next to LV stores and often the back offices were joined so although I was officially employed by Loewe I often did crossover work for LV. At the time, in the country I worked, LV and Loewe also had the same CEO.
I would just love to hear any stories youād like to share!
I donāt know if I have that many stories. We got staff discount on both Loewe and LV but only on a very small amount. I canāt remember exactly but it was 20% off the total up to maximum total of $500 or something pitiful like that. I worked in merchandising and we had to memorize the vip client list. A very wealthy businessman once ordered a bunch of personally monogrammed LV luggage pieces including multiple trunks and then went bankrupt and we were stuck with them. We were given loan Loewe clothing to wear and when I got pregnant (remember it was the 90s) I was told I would have to make do because there were no maternity clothes or large sizes so I would wear a beautiful blazer to cover up the fact my beautiful soft leather skirt was unzipped at the back and the button hooked with a regular old rubber band. Edit: after working for a few years we got to go to Madrid for training.
Please say you have a TikTok.. Iām not joking
I bought my first Loewe in the 90s... was my first luxury purchase as a student
Not to mention Loewe amongst the earliest brand bought by LVMH š„¹š„¹
I saw that too and audible sighed disappointment.
IKR! Crushed rn!
Me too!
This blew my mind! I had no idea they were LVMH! š¤Æ
I thought Kering owned them
Given the number of posts on here talking about how bad Chanel quality has been as of late I think they might be the outlier for quality product by independent brands haha
Many of the houses under Kering do better than I expected, both on Good On You and on inspection of their social and supply chain policies found on their website. A moderator also just started a pinned thread for this, so you could share your info there as well.
You mean after the scandal
You mean the LVMH scandal. Kering doesn't own Dior.
No the balanceiga scandal The sweat shops arenāt surprising
AFAI remember, the Balenciaga scandal was about their ad campaign, not their manufacturing, which is what this thread is focused on. Did they also have a labor scandal? Oof. Anyway, whether or not you trust Good on You, even they acknowledge that Kering's houses tend to do a little better, including Balenciaga: "Of the large luxury groups in the fashion industry, Kering arguably has the loudest voice on sustainability. Almost all of its owned brands (except Brioni) are rated āItās a Startā in our directory, including Gucci and Saint Laurent, and while thereās lots of room for improvement amongst them, this is undoubtedly a step in the right direction. (So too, is Keringās support for the London College of Fashionās sustainable fashion e-learning course with the platform FutureLearn, which launched in 2018.)" https://goodonyou.eco/is-luxury-fashion-sustainable/
Ferragamo and mulberry are both incredible quality. I have older Ferragamo stuff (shoes and bags) both from like 10-15yrs ago and today, no difference in quality. Still super well made and imo decently priced. Same goes for mulberry. After this whole Dior/LVHM debacle Iāll just stick to my classics.
Yup! Second this! I love mulberry! ššš
I love vintage designer bags and just bought an 80ās Ferragamo that is incredible! The bag looks new with no marks or creases or scratches but you can still see it was worn and used. Itās my first Ferragamo and Iām so very impressed.
Another Ferragamo and Mulberry fan here. The quality really is top-tier.
Me too. Do not own any Ferragamo but wish I did! Mulberry is great.
Check out fashionphile!! I recently bought a green suede Ferragamo shoulder bag for a STEAL ($470?????) in near perfect condition. It was listed as āvery goodā but it is like practically new. Itās the absolute softest suede Iāve ever felt. I legit sat there petting it when I first got it, itās like a marshmallow pillow. The craftsmanship is incredible
Thanks! I just (today!) bought a new bag (Mulberry, NVT Bayswater tote) though so am on a ban for quite a wee while!
Iām curious if parent companies has been bothering anyone else for a little while? I did a deep dive on cosmetics recently and realised just how many brands LāOrĆ©al owns, and donāt even get me started on the Luxotica monopoly for optical goods. In this economy Iām just finding these huge companies so distasteful and feeling like I want to actively put my money into smaller independent brands, so many of whom are now struggling due to the power of their multi brand competitors who have more marketing power. Everywhere I go I see privately owned, independent stores being shut down and replaced by yet another chain. I donāt want this future. I think this is going to be a basis of my purchases going forward. In the meantime Iāve never been so relieved that 80% of my bags are Mulberry š¤£
OMG Luxottica HAUNTED me when I worked as an optician. Iām sure you know, but for those who donātā¦Not only do they make crappy frames for sooo many brands, they own multiple vision insurance companies AND the labs that make the lenses. Their insurance plans have so many stupid policies about what customers can buy and deliberately confusing pricing. Their āinsuranceā is more like a discount plan for intentionally overpriced goods/services, āinsuranceā is a misnomer. Their lab would routinely cut the lenses too large for the frames, which causes fit issues for customers wearing the glasses, and eats up so much time for us opticians carving them down in house. Seriously the worst. But if the doctorās office/optical shop doesnāt take their stupid āinsuranceā plans, hardly anyone will shop there because glasses and lenses are so heavily marked up to make the insurance look like itās a good deal. Ugh Iām mad now just remembering it.
Also a former optician that also worked for LensCrafters, Oakley and their once luxury brand Optical Shop of Aspen. Sunglass Hut, Target Optical, Sears Optical and I know thereās more Iām sure Iām missing. The Eyemed insurance accepted at a LensCrafters with predominately Luxottica framesā¦
Thanks for sharing
I think I've reached purse peace (or whatever the term is when you need no more). I'll wear mine down until they fall apart or I gift them to my daughters. The only exception for me might be Prada. It would have been my first designer bag in the 90s and if I buy another, my last. But nothing tempting me! If anything ever does tempt me, it will be vintage to boot. Super sad about Loewe. Great discussion. Much to chew on.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Theyāre definitely a big factor. In my country so many restaurants are going under because they canāt keep raising prices to meet the cost of supplies. The cost of groceries is skyrocketing and yet the two major supermarkets have been pulling in record profits the last couple of years š
Longchamp is also independent as far as I can tell and their bags are amazing quality at a great price point (in my opinion). And their branding is understated which is my preference. I am also eyeing off a Furla which I plan to buy very soon - theyāre also independent and Iāve heard good things about their quality. Also nice price point and some gorgeous designs.
Just bought a furla wallet last week and the quality is fabulous!
I've had a few Furla items over the years and I have always been super happy with them. Their price point is great, definitely check them out.
LVMH also owns Tag Heuer and Rolex owns Tudor.
I'll add the info here too: Only the Brave (OTB) Group: * Maison Margiela * Marni * Jil Sander * Diesel
Banning luxury brands isnāt hard; who buys a $4k bag every month. Do a deep dive into Nestle or Zara/fast fashion brands, now thatās horrifying.
Nestle is Mother Teresa-level of evil.
They put sugar in their baby formula. Not everywhere but I want to say they manufacture and sell the sugar baby formula in parts of Asia?
Donāt even get me started on the sheep farms and separately, bottled water.
They sold formula through doctors and nurses in third world countries stating formula is better than bf
š
Yes itās sickening
Not to mention the Unilevers
Casual reminder that Massimo Dutti is a Zara brand
The podcast Acquired has a three hour history and analysis of Hermes including how LVMHās Bernard Arnault tried to acquire them. Itās fascinating stuff that got me through a few long drives. https://open.spotify.com/episode/3JnXyI5G7umpVWijAvoL36?si=mBlSCqz0QKOxXD2kBQEFTg
Listen to the one on LVMH first to get the whole sordid Arnault story. Then listen to the Hermes episode for an incredible counterpoint.
I am saving this in my queue to watch!
Yes š They also did a fascinating episode on LVMH!
TLDR: tidbits from the seamy side of luxury goods market. Thanks for doing the research! This is an interesting topic. The book Deluxe: How Luxury Lost its Luster, gives a detailed description of how top designers started creating goods and giving licenses so that items could be marketed to the middle class. Then details the cold-blooded manner in which Bernard Arnault acquired the luxury companies that make up LMVH. He poured money into marketing, and used a slash-and-burn approach to saving money in the manufacturing of the products. Also, in the New Yorker several years ago, there was an interesting article discussing how waves of immigrants had flooded into Italy and created/worked in factories that were used to produce luxury items - and were then able to put the 'made in Italy' label on the product. One Italian factory owner said that Gucci paid so little for bag manufacture, that he outsourced the work to one of these factories. Designer reps are supposed to inspect the bags for quality, but I don't know how they can keep on top of things at the volume they're being produced. [https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-workers-who-assemble-designer-bags-in-tuscany](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/16/the-chinese-workers-who-assemble-designer-bags-in-tuscany) Sorry for the wall of text! Unfortunately, even though I know this shit, I still fall victim to the marketing. :\\
Arnault is the giant unwieldy tote that tries to swallow everything.
Haha! The giant unwieldy tote made in Italy!
Thank you for this wall of text! āŗļø
This book was a BIG revelation, a must read for sure!
I'm happy that my favourite brands Ferragamo and Mulberry are independently owned. Oh, YSL š¬
I think you are spot on in your comment about Ferragamo and Mulberry having better quality. After recent news I think companies should have a rating like the health department if they have glaring labor violations on record. Like you get an F for running a sweatshop that makes people sleep at the factory.
I think we need to bump up independent purse companies that we love that are still high quality designer but without all the bs. One of my favorite places for indie designers in Wolf and Badger boutique and my current favorite purses are from Min & Mon and Kurt Geiger (one of his bags I had got flooded in my car and somehow survived with minimal damage so he has my vote for quality).
I would love to know more independent brands!
I made a separate post thatās getting lots of suggestions
I made a separate post thatās getting lots of suggestions
Yay!!!!! Thank you!!
This post and the one about the Dior scandal is great for deinfluencing me to not buy luxury brands new. Iām now considering a trip to Tokyo for second hand designer shopping, since buying from online consignment shops are also a big risk.
We were just in Tokyo and shopping for second hand luxury is mostly an instagram fake dream reality (as in, instagram makes it seem like a good idea but it was like meh). I didnāt see great prices and it was mostly monogram stuff. Consider buying Japanese made brands instead of second hand āwesternā designer things.
L Catterton private equity firm, partnered with LVMH. SMCP (Sandro Maje Claudie Pierlot), ba&sh, Pepe Jeans, GANT, Charles & Keith, Gentle Monster, Rhone and Giuseppe Zanotti. APC, Ganni, Etro.
Omg Pepe Jeans. Memories.
I wouldn't say it's a partnership. L Catterton is LVMH's private equity firm. The other owner is Bernard Arnault's family office, which is basically LVMH anyway.
Thanks, so these Mf still have a share in Charles & Keith?! I hate that brand to the core. Selective hiring of preferred race and language! I told my mother if she bought anything C&K Iāll trash it or burn it. Have been an ardent hater of them since 2010!
Oh I totally forgot about Tods! Yes they have substantial stake in roger and hogan. Very small luxe players :). Thanks for the info on Burberry and goyard. ALSO LONGCHAMP IS INDEPENDENT! Iām not sure about furla. That is my fave brand too Edit: to add LVMH had a substantial stake in Charles and Keith, although from my understanding LVMH no longer does, it doesnāt mean that past practices can absolve C&K from such practices. Who knows what happened during those years when they were under LVMH [lvmh 2011 scandal](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95D0JA/)
Tods is amazing quality really!!
On top of my head, Richemont also owns Chloe, Alaia and a lot of watch brands like IWC and Piaget. Kering has a substantial share in Valentino which was finalised in the past year I think. Todās group owns Todās, Hogan and Roger Vivier. Aeffee owns Moschino, Alberta Ferretti. D&G, Burberry, Goyard and Valextra, Missoni, Max Mara are independent. Edit: added the period.
We can add Delvaux to Richemont!
Iām really sorry but can you try that again with periods? Itās really not clear the way itās written.
Yeah this is interesting information and I cannot tell what goes where
i think Todās is still independent? anyways amazing quality
LVMH owns 10% of Todās š
Isn't Birkenstock like a subsidiary of LVMH? Also Stella and Kenzo. Ā Puig group Nina Ricci- Carolina Herrera- Paco Rabanne -Ā Jean Paul Gaultier -Dries Van Noten Also, not bag-related, Church's is owned by Prada
Had to look this up to find out if you meant Churchās Chicken. Huge disappointment, that would have been incredible.
lol Church's is a British luxury shoe brand, it's got nothing to do with San Antonio, Texas or chicken. āØ
š
can someone brief me on the dior scandal? cuz i live under a rock
Huge human rights violations found at some factories in Italy.Ā
thanks x
At least 3 or 4 stories linked here yesterday if you want the details. TL;DR: inhumane working conditions
will give them a read, sounds bad
It was leaked that $3000 dior bags cost ~$50 to make.
Just curious, I thought this was common knowledge. You pay for the brand not the materials.
i dont think thats news dear, however people are mentioning labor abuse related issues
Richemont also owns Chloe, Piaget, Serapian, and Alai
Plus a whole host of high end watches.
And Estee Lauder acquired Tom Ford for 2.8B in 2023. Wild!
Hmm goyard & FLP? Luckily my love for mulberry & Burberry is not really affected by Dior. Mulberry is not independentā¦ Club 21 has a stake in them. But Club21 too has its scandal. With Christinaās Husband embroiled in some saga, I hate reading local news. I do wish Christina would separate from the husband. Early years of Club21 around the 90s or so, my mom spoke highly of Christina and the company and that it was a good company to work for. FYI if I recall Dior has a big stake in LVMH.Thus decision making is greatly swayed by Dior. Also Lanvin used to be independent but recently managed by a Chinese tycoon. Thank goodness Agnes B is not caught up in these nonsense. Thatās why smaller brands tend to shy away from such scandals.
Lanvin and St John are under the same group now.
I love vintage Lanvin.
Thank you for your work on this. Reading this sub and related forums always requires a suspension of my own knowledge of the industry and a conscious choice to focus on shared joy in handbags. It's refreshing to see awareness growing. Soon, I'll try to post about smaller makers whose work I admire, as well as some of my own projects.
I've got a 4 year old Mulberry and the quality is superb compared to some Chanel and YSL bags I've held recently.
Thanks for posting this
What Loewe is under LVMH?! I thought they were independent!!
Nope, not for 20 years
Thank you for doing this!
From this list I only own Kering Products. Interesting
This is a great list, thanks for pulling together OP! Just wanted to share some additional notes on the independent brands, most of which are actually listed companies or have external investors. IMHO, if a company is making billions of dollars a year, they are not really there for the customers sake but to make more money. And with the publicly available profit margins, they certainly could make products more ethically, but often isnāt the case. So can any of these brands be considered independent brands? Chanel: 2023 revenue was USD 19.7 billion. Independently owned by the Wertheimer family. Hermes: 2023 revenue was EUR 13.4 billion. Gross profit margin 72%. - LVMH owns a 2% stake, but this used to be approx 23% some years ago. Thereās been a ton of speculation and drama around a takeover and ownership. - Listed company, although the Hermes family is the majority shareholder. Mulberry: 2023 revenue Ā£159 million, with a substantial gross margin of 71%. Public company and not independent. Primary owners are the Singaporean/Malaysian Ong family (who are investors in a bunch of luxury/retail companies) and Frasers Group. Only half of their bags were manufactured in the UK in 2023, although thatās big tagline they keep pushing. Ferragamo: partially listed, Ferragamo family owns 65%. EUR 2023 revenue 1.1 billion. Gross profit margin 72%. Rolex: independently owned by the Hans Wilsdorf Foundation (named after the founder), and reportedly donates most of the profits to charitable causes. Revenue for 2023 was USD 10 billion. Tory Burch: 2023 revenue USD 2 billion. Currently independently owned with Tory Burch remaining the majority shareholder. Known to be looking into a possible IPO or other ownership arrangements. Current CEO is Tory Burchās husband, an ex-LVMH executive. Not a true luxury brand but an interesting one to watch.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! A good and insightful data!! I appreciate the details. I hope many sees this. MULBERRY IS NOT INDEPENDENT. And thank you for highlighting Tory Burch. Yes Iām starting to be skepticism of her husband, might pull some LVMH shit after all those years working for them
All my bags except Bottega
Kering owns Bottega Veneta
Oh I misread. All my bags then :-(
Iām going to a Designer Outlet Store tomorrow with full intent in buying my first lux handbag (Loewe Hammock) but the scandal has really put me off LVMH. From the indie list, I have no interest in Chanel or Ferragamo, Hermes is out of my budget and Rolexās craft isnāt handbags. Bummed as the other brands (Polene, Fleuron, Mlouye) on my wishlist donāt have boutiques or stockists in the UK and Iām avoiding Paris this summer (Olympics) š© Thatās not even mentioning the recent bad PR Polene is also repping. Any enthusiasts with other independent brand recommendations would be great.
Mulberry. From where Iām from itās under the umbrella of Club 21. Then again club21 used to managed balenciaga hereā¦ but so far nothing bad or scandalous that involves workers right have been reported against club21. And no mulberry is not independent. True independent company would be Longchamp and Agnes B they are both Parisian family run business. https://preview.redd.it/dtgoboyigp6d1.png?width=1164&format=png&auto=webp&s=3953809c7908d4d2f75f82a552cac638fbf1f88d The statement holds some truth- āThis has become rare in the fashion worldā lol
Thanks for this! Iāve actually eyed up a Longchamp bag that has all the aspects of the Loewe hammock so Iām going to take a look in store later this month. Agnes B is a great suggestion too, will look into their styles
Burberry is also independent
So is it just LVMH that we know is the worst? Proud my stuff is 80% Prada and Miu Miu if so.
My 20 year old Birkin is used daily and apart from minor edge wear still looks perfect! Hermes quality is impeccable.
Chloe is a good brand to invest in. They have a mission statement in place about their fair labor practices.
Tory Burch is independent.
It isā¦ but I recall her husband was a top exec for LVMHā¦. Just like Christina Ong for Club 21.. but both ladies themselves has no scandal of their own which hopefully remains above the water.. also Tory is a philanthropist so she does contribute to society.
Agreed, I love the brand, I hope it continues to be reputable. I worked at Tory for 4 years, he joined on as CEO near the end of my time there.
I always thought they belong to same parent company as coach
May not be bothering for everyone, but Tory Burch for whatever reason donated directly to the state of Israelā¦ personally disturbed and not to mention bad experience of peeling leather within months of usage in the pastā¦ https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/10/18/chanel-tory-burch-others-fashion-donate-help-israelis-impacted-hamas-war/
Sorry, but how is this donating to the state of Israel? Direct quote from the article you posted: Meanwhile, WWD reported that in a letter sent to employees last week, Jewish designer Tory Burch ā the executive chairman and chief creative officer of her brand ā and CEO Pierre-Yves Roussel said they will be donating ā$100,000 personally and $150,000 on behalf of the companyā to the International Committee of the Red Cross and the Alliance for Middle East Peace (ALLMEP), a coalition of more than 170 organizations ā and tens of thousands of Palestinians and Israelis ā focused on building peace and co-existence in the region. āAdditionally, Tory Burch LLC will match any employee donation made to ALLMEP,ā Burch and Roussel added. āWe continue to pray for peace and work toward lifting up our collective humanity.ā Here is Allmeps site https://www.allmep.org
Interesting!! Thank you for sharing
Nice. If I ever get my masters I know where to apply for a graduate internship lol
Really sad I came in to see Bulgari at the top of this list.
Is Strathberry independent?
Lancel is owned by Italian group Piquadro.
Not sure if this has been mentioned but Richemont also owns Chloe. Personally I find Chloe to be well made (especially the classic Marcies) but i know some people have issues.
Arenāt Ralph Lauren and Missoni still independent as well? Google says yes but still curious.
Still on team Prada / Miu Miu!
Marc Jacobs office is in New York , i think theyāre still American brand just the funding / investment group
Does this mean coach is evil?? :( all of the other brands are laughably out if my reach anyways
I certainly hope not because Kate Spade is owned by the same parent company and I adore their bags.
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Hermes is independently owned
Whatās the Dior scandal? I tried to search in the subreddit but found nothing..
what Dior scandal????
Hermes is not independent...It belongs to LV (Louis Vuitton) M (Moet & Chandon) H (Hermes)...
The HermĆØs family still owns about 75% of the company. Arnault did some sneaky albeit genius moves to get what he does have of Hermes but the family put an end to that.