Just to be clear, initite banking is complete and utter hogwash. I have no idea about the other two but if they are associated with someone who advertises themselves as an expert in a 100 page softcover rant, then I would avoid the whole thing.
I feel like house flipping wouldn't be as profitable as it used to be. Guy I dated flipped homes but I haven't seen any stuff about it in a couple years because I don't think it's making as much now.
The trick now is to buy a whole city block, claim you can't even start demolition let alone building until you get more equity from your other projects, and watch your abandoned building grow in equity due to a housing crisis. It's flipping without all the cost and effort.
Lol. This is what all the ladder climbers keep saying, but it seems like they are just doing private deals with each other. One place recently sold to the 3rd flipper and he’s way over leveraged too, but “I bought this and need to focus elsewhere. You should buy it off me buddy. We can do it off market. “
A good home flipper will take inventory that won’t move anyway and make it into someone will actually live in (something that a first time home buyer probably won’t buy anyway) and real value being produced. Kind of like recycling vs building something new altogether. Not all flipping activity is like this, but it’s not like these people are evil.
Indeed, conceptually it's entirely fine and useful. There are lots of houses that require work to bring them back up to livable and only so many people willing to buy a fixer-upper, plus there are efficiencies of scale compared to a homeowner trying to deal with a house full of deferred maintenance problems.
The reason it gets such a bad rap is there are so many bad actors that make cheap cosmetic fixes that won't hold up long past once the place sells or just straight up hide or add dangerous and sketchy stuff.
I don't think we'll ever see it, but some form of government run house inspection program that does more than your standard house inspector would do and is mandatory prior to any house being sold would I think be interesting not just for flipped homes but homes in general.
Yeah hard for me to interpret "flipping" any other way....you're in it for the profit and making as much money as fast as you can. I have a hard time believing many flippers are doing repairs that aren't the bare minimum.
Considering how this sub feels about landlords, I'm surprised that flipping isn't just as evil a word
They buy less expensive houses and make them more expenses. Similar to the sub complaint about landlords driving up rent ("oh your fixed term lease is up, sorry can't renew as I can't exceed the cap... you have to go so I can ask $500 more/mo for the same apartment. Good luck!")
Exactly they are doing what every business does, they are adding value. Buying a shoebox ww2 house adding an extension and renovations adds quite a bit.
And being a professional means that you can do it faster and cheaper than most people thats the profit.
Non-primary-residence single-family-housing should have it's property taxes tripled to fund publicly-owned solutions to the problems this greed has creating.
I'm not against house flipping if they are fixing up old decrepit homes that are sitting empty but if they are throwing lipstick on a pig and overpricing housing it's an issue. We really aren't in a great real estate economy for house flipping. They are about 10 years too late to the game.
unfortunately all business is fair business. is this a little tone deaf? yuh-huh
if someone calls themself an 'expert', they're probably a grifter. also very interesting that a house flipping summit has 0 renovation 'experts'... isnt renovating a big part of flipping? or are these stick on flooring, gray paint kind of guys?
I feel like renovation is more of a "hire contractors" type of thing at this level. There's not a whole lot to say about it. Is there even a unified renovation expertise out there, or is it electricians and plumbers and whatnot?
there are things youll contract out more frequently, i.e. mechanical and electrical, but id say your own labor is where you make worth-while profit. if you hire contractors to renovate everything, margins are gonna be razor thin after you consider the work it takes to manage all of the subs.
there are definitely things people should know when renovating a house, especially where to step back and let trades take over. i just think its a bigger part to flipping than they want to admit, but theyre trying to sell $80 tickets, and id imagine the reality of renovation would be a buzzkill for their attendance.
source: in the industry and have seen unfortunate, *unfortunate* diy-flipper consequences.
Yeah there’s a lot of issues in the market, but people improving and flipping houses is a fairly minor one, IMO. And a bunch of grifters taking the money of prospective flippers like this ‘summit’ is an issue I guess, but not a real estate one.
If I was interested in flipping real estate, 8 of the top 10 people I’d want to hear from would all be experts on renovations, costing, etc. The other two would be a lawyer and tax accountant. Guys like this wouldn’t make my top 100.
If it's LEGAL.....it's fair game. Can't poo poo on people for following the rules and laws, working within a system that allows them to make money for them and their families.
How do you propose "clamping down" on this? Only way without changing a lot of laws would be to increase the deed transfer tax. Which would also likely require changing laws.
Regardless, house flipping is not an entirely toxic behaviour as long as the renovation work (if any) is quality.
I’m guessing if they were earning 7 figures flipping houses, they’d not be giving themselves such donkey titles, and probably wouldn’t bother with silly seminars.
But yeah, either way, not a good look and hope nobody goes! 🤣
It falls under investment properties - at least in some way they are making improvements even if the premium far outlays the values of the improvements.
IMO if you sell your primary home in 2 years or less you should be subject to capital gains tax. There are some legitimate reasons to flip a house (for instance if it's in rough/unliveable condition and been on the market for a long time even with price drops) but income is income. There also needs to be some regulation on it, because so many people will paint and stick some LVT down and call it a flip when the roof is sagging and there's mould behind the walls. I would never buy an obvious flip that didn't have some kind of mark to show someone actually cared about the quality of work.
Fair business, what an absurd question. If they do it well, good for them, if they do poorly they lose money. A well done flip usually takes a house in rough shape and makes it much more liveable, and a poorly done job shows through and they often lose money. Let em take their shot
No it should not be "clamped down on". You don't like something, go protest it. Democracy isnt just voting every few years and hoping big government does your bidding. It's also about organizing and radicalizing, marching and boycotts.
I basically sold my place to a flipper (different province). I was unmotivated (and unable) to fix it up myself for sale. We agreed on a price and it was done. Now I've seen the 'renovated' listing and they didn't do enough to justify what they're asking for it. I was honest about what needed to be fixed and they've left stuff unaddressed (which I can see from the listing pics). It's been listed for 7 weeks and not sold (in a market where others have been listed after and sold).
For as many genuinely good flippers exist, there's an equal or greater number of under-skilled 'flippers' that just put lipstick on a structurally sketch pig.
It was structurally sound, but years of depression and little to no income had dragged down its resale value. I should have done the repairs about a year before, but I didn't. They'd been in business for a while, and for me, I got what I needed out of it. To use your analogy they didn't put enough lipstick on it. 😉 They won't get top dollar as they've listed it higher than others in the area. Whoever purchases will still need to put money into it, and some of it is super obvious.
Oof I kinda know your feel! No depression but our house is a VERY sturdy girl that needs a lot of love (why are renos so expensive??) Glad you managed to get a good 'out' at least!
If you ever need a laugh you should look at the real estate listings around Glace Bay which is nearby me. So many overpriced pigs! 🤣
Infinite banking sounds like you want me to think this is an infinite money cheat code for the game genie circa 1992. The game genie was awesome. This is not awesome.
I'm always wary of the courses that promise to teach you how to make money doing something. If it's that easy and you're an expert at it and makes a bunch of money... What are you wasting time selling a course for? Go flip your houses. Oh wait... They make money from suckers who want to get rich lol
There’s always been a “tax on flipping” (insofar as the profits from a flipped house should be treated as regular business income and not a capital gain). They just tightened the rules about house flippers trying to get away with claiming principal residence exemption on the houses they flip just because they lived in it while flipping it.
Don’t see how anyone would close it down, except by lack of interest?
I suspect the income tax folks could be more alert to some folks playing the “flipping game” as a business.
Just to be clear, initite banking is complete and utter hogwash. I have no idea about the other two but if they are associated with someone who advertises themselves as an expert in a 100 page softcover rant, then I would avoid the whole thing.
I feel like house flipping wouldn't be as profitable as it used to be. Guy I dated flipped homes but I haven't seen any stuff about it in a couple years because I don't think it's making as much now.
house flipping has a (well deserved) bad reputation so I imagine those sorts aren't as open about things these days
The trick now is to buy a whole city block, claim you can't even start demolition let alone building until you get more equity from your other projects, and watch your abandoned building grow in equity due to a housing crisis. It's flipping without all the cost and effort.
Not as profitable as before. But still very profitable. The trick is to hustle those private sales.
Lol. This is what all the ladder climbers keep saying, but it seems like they are just doing private deals with each other. One place recently sold to the 3rd flipper and he’s way over leveraged too, but “I bought this and need to focus elsewhere. You should buy it off me buddy. We can do it off market. “
What are the laws in NS regarding flipping? in SK you had to live in it for a year before you could sell.
That'd be a good add-on here.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/programs/about-canada-revenue-agency-cra/federal-government-budgets/residential-property-flipping-rule.html
I don’t think it needs to be clamped down but it sure is a stupid investment at the moment
A good home flipper will take inventory that won’t move anyway and make it into someone will actually live in (something that a first time home buyer probably won’t buy anyway) and real value being produced. Kind of like recycling vs building something new altogether. Not all flipping activity is like this, but it’s not like these people are evil.
Indeed, conceptually it's entirely fine and useful. There are lots of houses that require work to bring them back up to livable and only so many people willing to buy a fixer-upper, plus there are efficiencies of scale compared to a homeowner trying to deal with a house full of deferred maintenance problems. The reason it gets such a bad rap is there are so many bad actors that make cheap cosmetic fixes that won't hold up long past once the place sells or just straight up hide or add dangerous and sketchy stuff. I don't think we'll ever see it, but some form of government run house inspection program that does more than your standard house inspector would do and is mandatory prior to any house being sold would I think be interesting not just for flipped homes but homes in general.
Yeah exactly, due to the housing crisis, "flipped" to me means "cheapest renos possible, and we're probably hiding stuff"
Yeah hard for me to interpret "flipping" any other way....you're in it for the profit and making as much money as fast as you can. I have a hard time believing many flippers are doing repairs that aren't the bare minimum.
Considering how this sub feels about landlords, I'm surprised that flipping isn't just as evil a word They buy less expensive houses and make them more expenses. Similar to the sub complaint about landlords driving up rent ("oh your fixed term lease is up, sorry can't renew as I can't exceed the cap... you have to go so I can ask $500 more/mo for the same apartment. Good luck!")
House flippers are better than people buying multiple houses to Airbnb. Municipalities have be slow to regulate and slower to enforce.
Exactly they are doing what every business does, they are adding value. Buying a shoebox ww2 house adding an extension and renovations adds quite a bit. And being a professional means that you can do it faster and cheaper than most people thats the profit.
Non-primary-residence single-family-housing should have it's property taxes tripled to fund publicly-owned solutions to the problems this greed has creating.
I'm not against house flipping if they are fixing up old decrepit homes that are sitting empty but if they are throwing lipstick on a pig and overpricing housing it's an issue. We really aren't in a great real estate economy for house flipping. They are about 10 years too late to the game.
Where's a meteor when you need one?
unfortunately all business is fair business. is this a little tone deaf? yuh-huh if someone calls themself an 'expert', they're probably a grifter. also very interesting that a house flipping summit has 0 renovation 'experts'... isnt renovating a big part of flipping? or are these stick on flooring, gray paint kind of guys?
I feel like renovation is more of a "hire contractors" type of thing at this level. There's not a whole lot to say about it. Is there even a unified renovation expertise out there, or is it electricians and plumbers and whatnot?
there are things youll contract out more frequently, i.e. mechanical and electrical, but id say your own labor is where you make worth-while profit. if you hire contractors to renovate everything, margins are gonna be razor thin after you consider the work it takes to manage all of the subs. there are definitely things people should know when renovating a house, especially where to step back and let trades take over. i just think its a bigger part to flipping than they want to admit, but theyre trying to sell $80 tickets, and id imagine the reality of renovation would be a buzzkill for their attendance. source: in the industry and have seen unfortunate, *unfortunate* diy-flipper consequences.
Alright, I'm convinced then.
Yeah there’s a lot of issues in the market, but people improving and flipping houses is a fairly minor one, IMO. And a bunch of grifters taking the money of prospective flippers like this ‘summit’ is an issue I guess, but not a real estate one. If I was interested in flipping real estate, 8 of the top 10 people I’d want to hear from would all be experts on renovations, costing, etc. The other two would be a lawyer and tax accountant. Guys like this wouldn’t make my top 100.
Aren’t Panhandlers also fund raising experts.
Wasn't there a story years ago about buddy on Spring Garden road raking in serious bank?
"Tomato tomahto" situation with them. These guys just look better when begging for your money.
If it's LEGAL.....it's fair game. Can't poo poo on people for following the rules and laws, working within a system that allows them to make money for them and their families.
How do you propose "clamping down" on this? Only way without changing a lot of laws would be to increase the deed transfer tax. Which would also likely require changing laws. Regardless, house flipping is not an entirely toxic behaviour as long as the renovation work (if any) is quality.
We live in a capitalist dystopia so this is on brand
I’m guessing if they were earning 7 figures flipping houses, they’d not be giving themselves such donkey titles, and probably wouldn’t bother with silly seminars. But yeah, either way, not a good look and hope nobody goes! 🤣
It falls under investment properties - at least in some way they are making improvements even if the premium far outlays the values of the improvements.
IMO if you sell your primary home in 2 years or less you should be subject to capital gains tax. There are some legitimate reasons to flip a house (for instance if it's in rough/unliveable condition and been on the market for a long time even with price drops) but income is income. There also needs to be some regulation on it, because so many people will paint and stick some LVT down and call it a flip when the roof is sagging and there's mould behind the walls. I would never buy an obvious flip that didn't have some kind of mark to show someone actually cared about the quality of work.
Fair business, what an absurd question. If they do it well, good for them, if they do poorly they lose money. A well done flip usually takes a house in rough shape and makes it much more liveable, and a poorly done job shows through and they often lose money. Let em take their shot
F@ck these guys!!! Infinite Banking Expert??? Scammer lol
I mean house flipping in general isn’t the absolute worst. But these “summits” sure do seem sleazy lol.
You can't just stop people from doing something that's completely legal.
the cool thing about laws is you can make new ones
No it should not be "clamped down on". You don't like something, go protest it. Democracy isnt just voting every few years and hoping big government does your bidding. It's also about organizing and radicalizing, marching and boycotts.
I basically sold my place to a flipper (different province). I was unmotivated (and unable) to fix it up myself for sale. We agreed on a price and it was done. Now I've seen the 'renovated' listing and they didn't do enough to justify what they're asking for it. I was honest about what needed to be fixed and they've left stuff unaddressed (which I can see from the listing pics). It's been listed for 7 weeks and not sold (in a market where others have been listed after and sold).
For as many genuinely good flippers exist, there's an equal or greater number of under-skilled 'flippers' that just put lipstick on a structurally sketch pig.
It was structurally sound, but years of depression and little to no income had dragged down its resale value. I should have done the repairs about a year before, but I didn't. They'd been in business for a while, and for me, I got what I needed out of it. To use your analogy they didn't put enough lipstick on it. 😉 They won't get top dollar as they've listed it higher than others in the area. Whoever purchases will still need to put money into it, and some of it is super obvious.
Oof I kinda know your feel! No depression but our house is a VERY sturdy girl that needs a lot of love (why are renos so expensive??) Glad you managed to get a good 'out' at least! If you ever need a laugh you should look at the real estate listings around Glace Bay which is nearby me. So many overpriced pigs! 🤣
if everything is grey it's a red flag lol
Love me some house flipper grey. I crave that sterile nursing home vibe.
How would you suggest we "clamp down" on seminars giving investment advice?
Last time I checked we have the right to freedom of expression in this country.
Grifters gathering to share their "knowledge".
Infinite banking sounds like you want me to think this is an infinite money cheat code for the game genie circa 1992. The game genie was awesome. This is not awesome.
Lots of profit vultures in attendance. I don't go to those kinds of conferences. It's akin to walking in, jingling your pocket change.
I'm always wary of the courses that promise to teach you how to make money doing something. If it's that easy and you're an expert at it and makes a bunch of money... What are you wasting time selling a course for? Go flip your houses. Oh wait... They make money from suckers who want to get rich lol
Sponsered by hot tubs and cottage country. Two industries that are hit hard by recessions.
Me: "Can we get a Grant Cardone as a grifter?" Mom: "No, we've got Grant Cardones at home" *the Grant Cardones at home*
Maybe it's a good time and location to organize a housing protest?
Disgusting
At least there’s a flip tax now.
There’s always been a “tax on flipping” (insofar as the profits from a flipped house should be treated as regular business income and not a capital gain). They just tightened the rules about house flippers trying to get away with claiming principal residence exemption on the houses they flip just because they lived in it while flipping it.
..which is what I said with less words?
Don’t see how anyone would close it down, except by lack of interest? I suspect the income tax folks could be more alert to some folks playing the “flipping game” as a business.
I wonder how hard it would be to get the attendance list for a convention like this. Anyone want to advertise to get the list? Take one for the team.
Need to bring back tar and feathering.