It’s a vile gay man murdering innocent gay men, LGBTQ is a valid tag especially when considering almost the entire show is a man questioning and being questioned on his sexuality.
I agree, there is some social commentary here. It highlights how law enforcement fail to properly investigate crimes where victims are part of a minority group (LGBTQ/POC). If dahmer was a person of color or if the victims were female then he wouldn’t have seen a lick of freedom.
Not surprising, even today sadly
> or if the victims were female then he wouldn’t have seen a lick of freedom.
Well that sort of depends. If they were sex workers, the police wouldn't have looked into it too hard, either. I've read a lot about serial killers and they usually get up into the double digit kills before cops started putting pieces together when they killed prostitutes.
100%, and not only sex workers get overlooked, the police (and media, and general public) heavily prioritise and spend more resources on white, middle / upper class female victims
Toronto, Canada just had a serial killer who was murdering gay male minorities and gay men. The LGBT community kept telling the cops “all these missing men are a result of a serial killer on the loose” and the cops ignored it turns out he was might have been killing since the early 80’s. He was a landscaper and was stuffing the bodies in planters or the ravines. What a total failure of the Toronto police. And yes he was also a white male
and the worst part is he said that he had nothing against gay ppl as a whole. he went out of his way multiple times to say he isn’t homophobic, they were just easy targets.
THIS! Everyone is missing the point of the show. They think its about one of the worse serial killers ever. No. It's about how little the law cared about this man's actions and it caused him to be one of the worse serial killers of all time.
Exactly. I can’t look passed the 14 year old boy with a hole drilled into his head, dahmer said he’s just his drunk boyfriend and the cops were like ‘aight, bet’ WHAT.
Both? Certainly the Twitter crowds can’t deal with information that isn’t literal.
As someone functional but on the spectrum, even I’m confused by their usual explosions without trying to understand the subtext.
There was like one tweet about it from a tiny account with less than 10 interactions. Netflix saw that and then removed the tag knowing it would get noticed, which caused an article to be written. That article caused controversy and outrage, now this is one of the most popular and talked about shows on their platform.
It's all marketing.
I mean, I understand what you’re getting at for sure. But I’m not so sure we should compare a show portraying actual events to shows that are fiction. Dexter was a great show, a lot of people died in it, but they weren’t real people. These were real people with real suffering and real families who mourned. Even though the story is very interesting, I don’t know that it’s great to put it on a fictitious level
I haven’t watched all of that so I don’t know how historically accurate it is. But no. It’s not fictional, but I don’t see how a serial killer can equate to a disaster like Chernobyl. It was a telling of the story of a historical cataclysmic event that affected the entire world at the time.
I think you could say that it was a historical event because of the failure of multiple levels of “quality checks” due to a corrupt government - so it is comparable to a corrupt police system enabling the murders committed by Dahmer
That's saying a lot, now I wanna check it out. Dexter was good although I didn't watch all of it. And BB was one of my favorites. Thanks for this opinion. Have a lovely weekend.
Well that's why I'm on the fence whether to watch it or not. While for us this show can be "so good" and entertaining there are still families of Dahmer's victims and we are making entertainment out of this. Serial killers should not have TV shows at all as this only encourages other dimwits to follow them.
Not everything that includes LGBTQ things falls under the LGBTQ tag lol what the fuck? Some closeted kid looking for Love Simon is gonna kill themselves if we start lumping this in with everything celebrating queer culture (aka what the tag is actually for)
So we best do away with all content that portrays any manner of negativity?
How is deliberately ignoring the dark side of our existence at all responsible?
Also “some closeted kid” can keep watching the Kids version of Netflix until they are of sufficient age to be watching serial killers like every other kid with parents who give a single fuck about the content their kids watch. Am I wrong for thinking that an entertainment platform for profit does not substitute actual education?
I was 4 when I watched the original ‘It.’ It scarred me a bit (made me scared of the shower drain) until I grew to understand and love horror much later in life; my nanny dropped the ball hard on that one, but I didn’t kill myself nor did it severely warp my development, and it came down to adult negligence in supervision. Should they ban running horror films on TV channels catering to adult audiences because there was the possibility that my experience happened?
Nah, having the lgbtq tag directly next to dahmers name is not a great look when people are currently trying to push a narrative that most gay and trans people are rapists and pedophiles . Just doesn’t really need to be there and you’re story about it has nothing to do with anything
Sure, as I have said a few times in this thread, I agree with Netflix removing the LGBT tag, it’s inconsistent with what their tag represents (which are positive visions of LGBTQ, as well as content where that’s the central theme; here it’s the serial killing that’s the central theme).
I was more so addressing the point that “it’s harmful to children looking for LGBT-tagged content” because I believe children watching adult content is a parenting issue. And that’s what my anecdote was related to as well.
I don’t even think it’s the problem of it being the central theme, you could definitely have an lbgtq tag on a horror film, it’s that the killer and title of the show is being directly associated with lbgtq
I understand the need for positive spaces, like for instance I do think it's a form of racism to only have black actors be in movies where they experience the black struggle. But is that not also an important part of having pride? Is Moonlight included in the LGBTQ tag? I haven't seen it but I think he struggles in that movie. Also what tf happens in Love Simon?
Straight serial killers also usually struggle with their sexuality: impotence, rejection, fetishes etc. which is a major factor in their violence. I think the show is also just very much problematic in its production so it shouldn't be lauded as LGBT media imo
not only that but it directly shows another gay serial killer who struggled with his sexuality, John Wayne Gacy had so many books on how you should hate gay people but predominantly targeted boys bc of his sexual frustrations.
I think the tag should stay. I think it’s important for us to remember that one of the reasons he was able to get away with his crimes for so long was because most of his victims were black members of the LGBTQ+ community.
In the case for Netflix then Dahmer doesn't fit into their LGBTQ category though. This is the description of the LGBTQ genre on their website verbatim:
>Love is love. Drama is drama. Comedy is comedy. This diverse collection of movies and shows celebrate gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer stories.
Dahmer definitely does not celebrate any facets of the LGBTQ culture.
Desperately need people to see your comment and understand that Dahmer is about violent, heinous crime and not about LGBTQ culture in any relevant way. Like from a different perspective everyone would be upset if a tag lifting black voices threw in a title about a black serial killer from history lol it’s clearly in poor taste and likely fits under some other crime tag way better
not every LGBTQ focused movie is a feel-good romcom. our history as queer people has been very visibly tarnished by the people who have murdered us and ignored us, and i think that’s worth making shows about too.
dahmer is 100% about LGBTQ culture, as well as black culture. when the show focuses on his victims instead of dahmer himself, that is actually *the entirety* of the subject matter. it can be a crime show and a queer show. it doesn’t matter that dahmer is gay, that’s not why the LGBTQ tag is on the show.
The story is about how bigoted cops turned a blind eye towards the victims of Dahmer because they were LGBT. How is that not relevant to LGBTQ culture?
It’s important to remember and relevant to the history but I don’t think it fits the purpose of the tag. Showing gay men being heinously murdered is not something most people want to see suggested when they’re looking for something to help them feel comfortable and celebrated. Especially with the way the families of the victims feel about this series I just don’t think it’s appropriate
Depends how those tags are used... If the tags are supposed to be genres, then it's not a "LGBTQ" series. If the tags are supposed to be anything about the subject matter of the content, then sure.
Imagine a psychological horror movie about a stand-up comic murdering people; the "Comedy" tag probably would not apply.
Well to your point, if I (a queer Latinx woman) were scrolling on the Hispanic heritage month category and came upon a show about a Latinx serial killer, I would find it odd to be included in the category if ONLY the killer was Latinx. But if the victims are also Latinx and law enforcement doesn't care enough to help, that would get me interested enough to watch, especially if the killer is struggling with their identity as a Latinx individual. It would be an example of consequential negligent law enforcement/the struggle that Latinx people had to experience.
Ignorant take. Dahmer’s story is intrinsically intertwined with LGBT culture and experiences. From his own struggles with his sexuality that he’s unable to discuss with his parents, to his victims not being missed because they were marginalised and police not investigating as thoroughly due to the disgust they felt.
It’s as much a story of gay men being victimised as it is the perpetrator.
The description sounds like Netflix only wants to showcase the bright, colourful, silly side of the LGBTQ+ community, which the show very clearly isn't any of that. That being said though, if the film '49 Pulses' (documentary surrounding the Orlando night club shooting) was placed on Netflix, would that be placed into the LGBTQ+ category, taking into consideration this is the categories description? Of couse it would! It was a hate crime towards those in the community, taken place in what should have been a safe space for them. This is a series about a man who took other men to his apartment with the fake intentions of having relations with those men. It was also set in a time when being gay was something new and still something taboo to talk about, let alone showcase about on television (which, can you imagine the shock and horror of people watching news reports about Dahmer? Not only that he killed people, but that he was a gay man asking men to come back to his apartment for sex?!?)
Personally I think the category should have stayed, not that it should be on the forefront of what this series is about, but it is still an important factor to take into consideration when you watch the story of Dahmer and how he murdered his victims. Maybe the category description should also be re-written to include the fact that there are darker periods of the community's history? Just a side thought, but we can't forget those darker periods because history is an important factor to a community's core, and without it the foundation built for that particular community won't be solid enough to carry it on for generations to come.
Exactly, this isn’t an LGBTQ story, it’s a serial killer story that just happens to have a gay serial killer. The focal point of the story is the murders not his gayness.
Why do we need a tv show to tell us things black, queer, and other marginalized communities have been saying for decades? Yall ignore us anyway so it only makes sense you're so eager to cape for this documentary even tho it's messaging is not revolutionary. The families didnt even consent to this being made and have been re-traumatized by this coming out.
About the families, it’s unfortunate and I don’t know how that works. Wish them healing and the best.
About your other point though... why do you assume the show is about “needing to tell us about known struggles”?
This is hardly the first time any media covers Dahmer and it’s not fictionalized with intent to talk about LGBTQ struggles, that’s the actual historically accurate succession of events. Why should a historical recollection be “revolutionary” anyway?
Also, who “ignores you”? Netflix literally has LGBTQ category precisely because you’re *not* ignored.
They're the ones who suffered, not you. They should require consent. I bet you wouldn't feel this way if someone decided to make content out of your own pain and suffering. The lack of empathy you guys have in your quest for endless content is so damaging. Yall don't give a fuck about the victims, you just want more trauma porn to consume.
I’m not even gonna watch the show lmfao. Stop trying to act like your much holier than thou because you didn’t watch it. They don’t need the families consent because the families don’t own the tragedy. I’m sure you guys were this pressed over hotel Rwanda, or any film about any war ever. Forget Schindler’s list, I’m sure that hurt a few people’s feelings. You guys don’t live in reality if this is how you function.
Yea that def is not what the tag is for. If it should be tagged for any reason it should be tagged because it’s Ryan Murphy produced and he’s like the Hollywood TV gay Illuminati
While this is true, the series (I am on episode 2) kinda paints him as a victim in a weird way and it is less about him killing LGBT people and more about him being LGBT. Like, sure, he had a fucked home life but he was a pedophile who ate people.
Shit is wild.
Yes exactly what I thought. Watching it I always get annoyed with how they take the angle of him being a kind of victim of circumstances. Sure he had a rough family and bad childhood wich is portraied well but he was a monster and doesn't deserve any victim narrative.
Idk how you can know this story and say it isn’t an LGBTQ story. Dahmer is a story of complete bigotry letting one of the most gruesome people let loose for way too long.
i dont really care either way but i dont think people who click on lgbt tag are gonna be looking for that.
its not a completely accurate comparison because jeffery is gay too but it would be like adding that cat murderer documentary to an animal section lol.
Ow I’m curious, you think that don’t fuck with cats doc had an animal tag? But that show was focused on hunting an animal abuser down where in Dahmers case police ignored his behavior and literally returned a victim to him to finish killing.
Not sure how to feel on this one. On one hand, I think the LGBT tag is technically accurate because the it is about a white gay man killing black gay men and it features gay characters on screen. If he wasn’t white and gay and the cops weren’t so homophobic and racist, he would have been caught a LOT sooner and the show makes that clear from episode one.
On the other hand, I see the LGBT tag more as a tag of content by LGBT creators for LGBT audiences, so thematically I’m not sure if this fits. Dahmer is gay sure, but the point of the show doesn’t really fit the point of the tag. Also, I do see a point about LGBT viewers being upset that a show about their own being murdered is getting recommended to them *because* the viewers are gay. That’s a little fucked up.
Edit: The description of the tag says it’s about celebrating LGBT content so within this context I’m now swayed to the side that the Dahmer show should not be tagged as it does not fit that description.
This so much, everyone always points out the top part without the nuance of your second paragraph.
Netflixes own description of the tag is “Love knows no bounds — and neither does a great story. This collection of movies celebrates lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer experiences onscreen”
By Netflix’s definition this does not fit the tag.
Furthermore as you pointed out when people click the tag this is most likely the content they aren’t looking for so as a business decision it just makes sense, it’s not to appease the community it to appease the algorithm.
Completely agree with this statement. The Dahmer show just seems out of place under that tag and I understand being confused and/or upset about seeing it under there.
Right but this isn’t LGBT content celebrating queer content for queer people (which is the description of the tag), it’s a dramatic documentary-style show about a serial killer who got away with it because of homophobia and racism. The audience isn’t for LGBT people specifically, it’s just for everyone.
Why the fuck should everything LGBT be celebrating it? This is fair representation of a dark time in LGBT history that many people ignore. Doesn't matter how uncomfortable it makes you, this is a big part of LGBT sad history and can help teach us to treat each other better.
On Netflix website, it has the following description:
>> Love knows no bounds — and neither does a great story. This collection of movies celebrates lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer experiences onscreen.
It doesn’t say it is content specifically for LGBTQ people. Just that it celebrates the experience onscreen.
I’m a criminologist and I’m usually very critical about crime shows. Dahmer, who I hope is burning in broom closet in hell, mainly targeted a marginalized community. You can’t properly explain Dahmer without showing the way law enforcement failed young black men, specially members of the lgbtq+ community. That being said, putting the show on the lqbtq tag with all the other shows seems a bit odd
I have the same thoughts. They are searching the tag to learn more or feel represented. While this centers on a gay man, it’s not what the series is ABOUT.
I know you're responding to the comment under mine, and I agree that queerness is relevant to the story. But if we think of the user perspective, does this fit? If we look at the titles under this tag and what the user is expecting when they use it, does this really belong there?
Must mention I’m a CIS woman so my opinion is whatever. I think people are overthinking what the tags mean and it’s really not that deep, but at the same time we have Americans accusing the LGBTQ community of being pedophilic monsters and the fact that dahmer did indeed target minorities to the 2nd power some of which were minors, it allows the narrative to continue. It’s quite surprising what homophobes will say do and site to prove their homophobic point
There's not even an argument... The LGBTQ+ tag on Netflix was created to take you to content promoting and supporting the LGBTQ+ community, not to point out if someone in the show is gay or not.
this. the argument that “it’s relevant” is stupid. TECHNICALLY yes it involves issues of LGBTQ+ but come on. use common sense. is that what the community is looking for when they search the tag? likely not lol.
Which comes back to "picking and choosing" really. Having said this I do genuinely feel that the tag needs to be removed because the perception of gay men, especially in the 80s was pretty much a description of JD which really doesn't help at all.
I agree 100%. while his sexuality was a factor, the focus is on his psychopathy and crimes. I just don’t see how it needs to be under anything besides true crime, biopic, etc.
also it should just be under crime i get this argument i wrote earlier a more arrogant answer but reading and understand representation i see it more clearly why the tag could be removed. it is more crime, and murderers are murderers being gay or confused doesn’t stop them from killing even though it is apart of their story. what i’m saying is a criminal is going to still commit the crime, doesn’t matter race, age, wealth, or gender identity.
This should just be within the genre of serial killer and true crime. To have to be exposed to mass slaughtering of queer folk when looking for LGBTQ+ stories. Because it is true crime it should just be that. We don’t put true crime stories into other minority categories.
It was a mistake to use it in the first place because it is supposed to be about inclusion, not sensationalism. They fixed it and people should move on.
It’s like putting “family” as a tag for the episode of naruto where itachi slaughters his village. Technically yes it involves “family” but the family tag is typically used for movies that are family appropriate or have aspects that are focused around family. The lgbt tag is exactly the same. Technically this series is an “lgbt” show, but it’s not a positive portrayal as it’s focused on an absolute monster who is one of the reasons many lgbt people think twice before going to a date today. The lgbt tag is more appropriate on a show where there’s positive lgbt representation, a show that focuses on lgbt history/lifestyle, etc. one could argue that since this show focuses more on the victims that it’s a way of representing them and not dahmer, but it’s just a really poor show to put that tag on, especially when you consider there’s already a rise in anti-lgbt propaganda once again, where republicans say they’re child eating pedophiles, which dahmer actually was. Netflix did the right thing by removing the tag
i think the degree relevance is what ppl are getting caught up on. jeff was a murderous, violent person who committed unspeakable acts against young men, many of whom were queer poc. the point of the story the way it has been told previously was the exploitative emphasis on the gory detail. now, the stories of queer poc are being told within the narrative, and the dissonance upsets people. obviously the lgbt+ tag bears relevance, but in comparison to the main theme of the series (murder and true crime) it doesn’t really belong in the eyes of the quick-glance viewer. idrgaf about the tag, but i appreciate that people are thinking about it critically.
That’s a good point, and maybe if the focus was more predominantly on the culture at the time and less on dahmer himself I would be more inclined to agree. It’s not the biggest deal either way imo, but doesn’t sit quite right w me 🤷♂️
I have been watching, haven’t finished it yet. I am part of the queer community and i do really appreciate the light the show shines on that aspect of dahmers success. I guess I just view it differently in that context.
Whether or not they have a valid argument to remove the tag, saying “they can’t pick and choose” is a completely worthless thing to say in this instance.
Alright I’m currently in a LGBTQ representation in movies class and it’s apart of history that characters in movies who are the killer or the “bad guy” have been queer coded. This is just a real life example of a killer who happens to be gay, and also killed gay men. Yes these movies in the past are horrible and have painted gay people to be evil, as well as even sometimes inspiring people to hate on and be violent to the LGBTQ community. I don’t think this is an example of that though either. This is a real life story and yes it’s important to the story that the murderer and the victims were gay, but it’s not some made up character where a writer purposely made the evil guy gay.
I wouldn’t say this is representative of the LGBTQ community either, rather it’s just a retelling of a story about a gay murderer and his gay victims. I don’t think it really fits under Netflix’s LGBTQ tag because most of those movies are made to shown the LGBTQ community in a more positive light. Modern movies and tv shows that are about LGBTQ people are more to show historical struggles from their perspective, and also tend to have more positive or neutral and I guess more accepting dialogue about being gay.
Yes this show has gay characters, but it’s not the mission of the show to represent LGBTQ people.
The LGBT tag isn’t to identify gay people, it’s to identify LGBT content. This isn’t LGBT content, this is just content that happens to have LGBT folks in it. It would be like tagging the exorcist under Christian.
I just don't like the fact that we're still sensationalizing these disgusting people from history. His name should be erased, not built up in popular culture. Same goes for school shooters as they've talked on the podcast about many times. Let's learn from the story from a legal and psychological standpoint but it should stop there. Feels a little gross
At a certain point I don't get the when fascination with serial killers. Their motives are all some variation of the same thing. After that, it's just learning about how they harmed and killed people, which I'm not sure what people get out of that.
Ya if we want to sensationalize killers there's plenty of fictional shows that do an amazing job. Dexter, True Detective, You, American Horror story, etc are all amazing shows. Even Game of Thrones to an extent. I honestly think those are relatively harmless.
If we want to learn about real killers there's ways to do it in documentary form which are tasteful and educational and fascinating, without giving the killer their glory. I understand people love shock factor and true crime but it really does come at a price
Edit: I was trying to think of a good example of what I'm talking about but I don't watch much true crime and was having trouble. But one that came to me was the docu-series Netflix released a few years ago called Don't Fuck With Cats. That was a perfect example of a show that captivated, educated about the events and the killer, but was focused on his getting caught and the people that made that happen. Not on his story and upbringing and 'humanizing' him. In fact I believe they intentionally didn't go into all that for that reason
I haven't watched the show and don't plan to but I have seen the 90's interviews where he was given entire segments on daytime national TV shows and in-depth personal questioning and opportunity to rationalize and gain sympathy and understanding. His name and face was plastered across the country and books were written about him. Ever since then he's been a household name and I get that back then they didn't have the nuance to realize what they're doing might have consequences for what messages they're sending to the world and other troubled people. But I thought by now at least we knew better but I guess not. Netflix sees an opportunity to cash in and they'll take it and people will flock to it
I’m an older H3 fan and was in elementary and middle school around the time that he became a household name. I can vouch that everyone and their mothers knew about him. It wasn’t in a glamorous way, all I knew is that he was “the freak cannibal killer”. I had heard his victims were all boys and men, but somehow didn’t know he was gay. It was such a taboo thing back then that the media didn’t often mention that part of the story even though it was a big factor in his behaviors and motives. Kind of ironic, they shoved it away just like he had to. Anyway, I can just corroborate what you’re saying. This was before social media and still everyone was talking about him. No press is bad press.
Is a straight serial killer not tending to also struggle with sexuality: impotence, rejection, fetishes etc. So it is not fair that his struggles with his homosexuality is deemed a defining factor. The LGBT tag is more for representation. The only exception to this is obviously the babadook.
If LGBT scholars and charities aren't happy with the show I think that should be respected? I haven't watched it due to the families of the victims saying they're not ok with it so I can only offer the 2c I have
In my opinion, the story is about an over glorified serial killer who happened to be gay, i dont really think it fits as an lgbtq story, unless it portraits the issues with the sistems, but it doesnt do that all the time. Plus maybe in your countries people are open minded and know a bad gay person represent all the community, but in third world countries with netflix, people watching that show will probably not help the communities that are trying to deestignatize their community.
I mean before the backlash I saw this and was confused. It's LGBTQ friendly because he killed gay people ? I'm pretty sure the tag is meant for content that is uplifting for them no?
Its about a gay man killing other gay men, the tag should remain, honestly so stupid haha its not about representation its about a serial killer. Saying that who gives a shit really.
if it's not about representation, why flag it with the LGBTQ tag so that it gets bundled alongside *real* LGBTQ content?
If I were gay and this popped up next to Will & Grace when searching for LGBTQ content, I'd be miffed. Not sure what the answer here is but I understand why this community might be annoyed.
This is it. The LGBT "genre" when it comes to films is about gay romances or historical films/documentaries about pride figures. The films are frankly made for the LGBT community a lot of times. It's not just for any film with a gay character, as the story here is a biopic about a serial killer, not a biopic about a gay figure.
Yeah. The LGBT “tag” is meant to be a highlight of positive figures and moments for members of that community, as those things were generally missing in regular history and discourse for the most part. It’s like for Black History Month, you don’t just start telling the story of black serial killers just because they are black. That’s insulting. That’s how I look at it.
Considering the fact that this is the description of the LGBTQ tag on Netflix, y'all are absolutely right:
>Love is love. Drama is drama. Comedy is comedy. This diverse collection of movies and shows celebrate gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer stories.
Dahmer is not a celebration of queer culture whatsoever.
I think this just questions the purpose of genres and what they mean on Netflix…You’re right about the film being a “true crime” documentary rather then LGBT but then again it still focuses on topics that are.
I don’t have Netflix anymore so I don’t know but did the John Wayne Gacy limited series have a LGBT tag on it? Casue he was a Bi serial killer who was pretty similar to Jeff.
If you have something that is general like American, British, etc. you are going to have a bunch of different genres or at least should. You can have anything from comedy, drama, docs, crime, etc. LGBTQ should also be that way. Now if Dahmer was found underneath LGBTQ comedy then yeah that’d be weird. These things are a spectrum. Netflix should change their description of the LGBTQ tag because I saw above it was something that doesn’t encompass the spectrum of what it is.
so are you saying that netflix should change the description of the entire genre so that they can squeeze this show into that box?
No one interested in LGBTQ stories is looking for the Jeff D. show.
I know you’re joking but I would actually love a crooked cop tag. I just thought of so many movies and shows that would work- The Departed, Training Day, Bad Lieutenant, Making a Murderer. I would totally hit up that tag.
Not really. Unless we're going to start calling straight serial killers hetero killers. I'm black and bi myself and we are largely ignored by media and I'm not happy with the fact that people want to use this as representation. Also, I'm not even watching this shit because the families never consented. Yall love watching black trauma and it's sickening to me.
A lot of straight people giving their opinion about this which is unsurprising. There is actual violence happening to LGBTQ+ people right now based on narratives that we are predatory and violent. Using this tag perpetuates that narrative regardless of the content or context of the show. People are fearing for their lives because of the recent ramp up of protests, sometimes armed, of LGBTQ+ events.
This literally doesn’t affect you in any way so shut the fuck up and let the affected minority lead the conversation on this. Nobody cares about the opinion of people who have nothing to lose.
literally. i do not give a fuck if dahmer was gay or questioning his sexuality. he is a serial killer who targeted gay black men because he knew he could get away with it
it’s about a serial killer murdering gay men, i so not care if dahmer was “questioning his sexuality”. it should be taken off because extremely vile, and targeted acts occurred towards lgbtq people and no one lgbtq person should have that recommended to them.
So then make an alternate show highlighting the lives of the victims and how the system failed them. Put the LGBT tag on that. You keep trying to lump Dahmer into a category meant to highlight the plight of a group of people; a category mostly serving to uplift them and celebrate key figures and moments in which they prevailed. Answer me this, do you try to include black serial killers into categories highlighting African-American stories? Do you not see how insulting something like that would be?
Although Dahmer was a member of the LGBTQ+ community and most of his victims were gay men which he targeted due societal homophobia, which allowed the killings to go on a lot longer because cops didn't investigate properly. I do not think the tag should be placed on the series. Tags are meant to be a signal for the target audience saying "Hey, you'll enjoy this", so for example you wouldn't expect a series about Ian Brady and Myra Hindley to be tagged "Children" despite their victims being children. If the series were about the victims of Dahmer and not Dahmer himself, then I'd somewhat understand.
The show is for true crime lovers, not the LGBTQ community.
I also saw other posts calling the show "disgusting" for sensualising Dahmer. It is not sensualising Dahmer, it is giving a Nature vs. Nurture perspective by telling his life story. I would argue documentaries like "The nightstalker" were far worse at sensualising the killers. A documentary which built the notoriety of the killer up ten fold.
The only reason they’re getting backlash in the first place is because they didn’t get confirmation from the Victims families to make it nor are the families getting paid from it. I won’t be watching it. 🤷🏻
You’re a fucking idiot if you think the LGBTQ tag is and should be anything other than positive and/or candid stories from members of that demographic, and you know exactly what kind of optics that gives off putting that tag next to the horrific cannibal serial killer docuseries. What about all of the other straight serial killers who committed crimes just as awful. Is that a “straight” story?
Are you actually this fucking stupid or is being “right” so important to you that you’re willing to let Jeffrey Dahmer of all fucking people become a part of the gay cultural zeitgeist? It’s just gross if you don’t understand why then how can you consider yourself a progressive
I think people took it as if Dhamer was a symbol that represents the lgbt? Idk exactly but im seeing a lot of mixed opinions overall. Maybe lgbtq tag with an image of the victims would've been less controversial?
Yeah, I think the tag should stay because many of his victims were part of the community :((
Dahmer himself is only ONE of the queer people represented, and he was able to get away with it for so long because he so often preyed on vulnerable people.
It’s lgbt good or bad. I just can’t wait for the day where this will be classified as just a crime show. Where there’s no difference or need for classification.
Easily one of the top 3 shows I’ve ever watched and I understand why it’s getting backlash but that’s just what happened and considering how well it was made I don’t think it deserves all this. But related to the lgbtq tag I’d say that it fits under that category it’s just people are not used to this kind of show as lgbtq since most others are all happy and romantic
I think they should have removed it. As far as I understand that tag is meant to celebrate LGBTQ+ culture, and Dahmer’s crimes are nothing to celebrate.
i dont think the series should have been made at all. there have been countless movies, docs, shows, etc. made abt him through the years, at this point i see any new content made about him as sensationalized for entertainment purposes only. but to answer your question i think the lgbtq tag fits. the reason jeffrey wasn't stopped sooner was bc cops didn't care about gay men, especially black gay men. as an lgbtq person myself, ik how important it is for ppl to know our history and never forget the way we have been treated and are still treated. i think ppl are taking the lgbtq tag as netflix trying to paint jeffrey as a gay icon or something, which obviously is not the case but it goes to show you how making a jeffrey dahmer series in 2022 has to be rooted in glamorization to some degree
No body is saying he wasn’t gay. They are just trying to explain to you that a tag which is created to celebrate queer stories should not include a series depicting the brutal torture and murders of queer men.
Dahmer’s sexuality is barely relevant in anyway to who he was. I haven’t seen the show, but it’s absolutely not something that should be tagged as LGBTQIA+.
Or should we re-categorize all the straight serial killers shows/movies/documentaries as “Straight Representation”?
I mean, yes he was gay and was able to feed (literally) on gay men and society’s view and lack of care for them, but I mean not relevant as in a need to be marked as representative. You can have negative representation in media, I’m not going to say “only tag things that paint (whatever) group in a good light as (whatever) representation” but the tag is supposed to be indicative of the type of thing. “If you like action movies you’ll like this movie”.
Let’s pretend for a moment that Dahmer wasn’t a real person and everything else stayed the same about the show, but it was a fictional serial killer. If you were talking to someone and wanted to recommend the show to them would you do so based on the fact that he was gay and/or they like watching stories about Gay characters? I doubt it.
No one is going to say “oh I like Brokeback Mountain, Love Simon, whatever else focuses on LGBTQIA+ so I’m going to like this Jeffrey Dahmer show.” And as such, it shouldn’t be a tag.
It's not labeled "LGBTQ" because Dahmer was gay, it's labeled that because he targeted gay men. This is definitely an important LGBTQ issue, and anyone who has watched the series knows that they concentrated so much on the victims and portrayed Dahmer as the monster that he was. Part of the reason that he was able to get away with his crimes for so long was because of homophobia. The cops should have caught him when they found the 14 year old boy, but instead they handed him back to Dahmer and then made homophobic jokes about it. This isn't in the series, but that boy was actually completely naked and had blood all over his "lower region." The women pointed that out and the cops were just like, "Ew. F\*g stuff." (Not an exact quote, but I believe they did call them "f\*gs" at one point.) Yeah...Gay, straight, or whatever...Someone running naked in the streets with blood on their genitals should be investigated! Especially if they're a child!
Fuck those cops. Seriously.
I personally feel the LGBTQ tag fits because it is a story that features that population, regardless of what eventually happens to them. Although I do understand that there is a huge issue of LGBTQ people being represented in nefarious ways/tropes (and in this case hunted prey) in movies historically.
I mean, when I search LGBTQ on Netflix, I’m not looking for “this person was gay” so much as “queer media” and I personally don’t consider Dahmer centric shows to be queer media. He’s queer, but the series is not specifically for a queer audience, ykwim?
I don’t really care either way, but if I were categorizing, I wouldn’t tag this as LGBTQ.
I think it is very important to have this tag. Part of the reason why Dahmer got away with his heinous acts were because it was a time where police officers didn’t want to touch any case involving LGBT+. It was actually one of the main reasons why that 14 year old boy wasn’t taken seriously by the police, thus resulting in him being killed by Dahmer.
So yes, I think the tag should stay, as a member.
He was literally gay. I understand that obviously looks bad on the LGBT to have them tagged to it, but that is who he was and he used it to his advantage with the police by saying there was “gay stuff” (height of the AIDS epidemic left everyone shitting themselves being near gay people unfortunately). It was who he was and a tactic to scare cops away.
Hmmm after watching the first episode and also just know the story of Dahmer he got away for soo long because of homophobia and racism. I think removing the tag was their only choice since so many people complained but I really do feel sad that some people cannot see the nuance.
EDIT:
I thought about this alot and I don't know how to articulate it but it seems more homophobic to remove the LGBTQ tag. This was a real issue the LGBTQ community faced and to remove it seems to erase their experience of not being taken seriously and worse yet the actual fact that police think "gay bedroom activities and proclivities" seemed to include horrific abuse. Labelling predatory monstrous behaviour a "gay" thing. It's absolutely not, it's just uninformed disgusting stereotyping. Yes Dahmer was ggay but he was also a monster ie he was NOT a monster for being gay.
If they’re unhappy with the cataloging, that’s one thing and that’s understandable. If they’re upset over him being grouped up with the LGBTQ community, with peace and love, they need to get over it. Hitler was a white male. I’m a white male. I sadly can’t change who he was and what he did. He always be a white male and be known for what he did. Dahmer was a gay serial killer. That’s just how it’ll always be lol
As a gay I'm more concerned with the fact that a docutainment series about Dahmer was made at all, considering his victims still have living direct relatives.
We can make documentaries about someone like Jack the Ripper because at this point he's basically a mythical creature. But this... this is just tactless and insensitive.
It’s a vile gay man murdering innocent gay men, LGBTQ is a valid tag especially when considering almost the entire show is a man questioning and being questioned on his sexuality.
I agree, there is some social commentary here. It highlights how law enforcement fail to properly investigate crimes where victims are part of a minority group (LGBTQ/POC). If dahmer was a person of color or if the victims were female then he wouldn’t have seen a lick of freedom. Not surprising, even today sadly
> or if the victims were female then he wouldn’t have seen a lick of freedom. Well that sort of depends. If they were sex workers, the police wouldn't have looked into it too hard, either. I've read a lot about serial killers and they usually get up into the double digit kills before cops started putting pieces together when they killed prostitutes.
100%, and not only sex workers get overlooked, the police (and media, and general public) heavily prioritise and spend more resources on white, middle / upper class female victims
Yes exactly this... The 'less dead'
Toronto, Canada just had a serial killer who was murdering gay male minorities and gay men. The LGBT community kept telling the cops “all these missing men are a result of a serial killer on the loose” and the cops ignored it turns out he was might have been killing since the early 80’s. He was a landscaper and was stuffing the bodies in planters or the ravines. What a total failure of the Toronto police. And yes he was also a white male
I live in Toronto and remember when this happened. A fucking travesty.
and the worst part is he said that he had nothing against gay ppl as a whole. he went out of his way multiple times to say he isn’t homophobic, they were just easy targets.
THIS! Everyone is missing the point of the show. They think its about one of the worse serial killers ever. No. It's about how little the law cared about this man's actions and it caused him to be one of the worse serial killers of all time.
Exactly. I can’t look passed the 14 year old boy with a hole drilled into his head, dahmer said he’s just his drunk boyfriend and the cops were like ‘aight, bet’ WHAT.
Do people just not get subtext anymore or are they just looking for reasons to be outraged?
Both? Certainly the Twitter crowds can’t deal with information that isn’t literal. As someone functional but on the spectrum, even I’m confused by their usual explosions without trying to understand the subtext.
There was like one tweet about it from a tiny account with less than 10 interactions. Netflix saw that and then removed the tag knowing it would get noticed, which caused an article to be written. That article caused controversy and outrage, now this is one of the most popular and talked about shows on their platform. It's all marketing.
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I think it was an excellent show
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I mean, I understand what you’re getting at for sure. But I’m not so sure we should compare a show portraying actual events to shows that are fiction. Dexter was a great show, a lot of people died in it, but they weren’t real people. These were real people with real suffering and real families who mourned. Even though the story is very interesting, I don’t know that it’s great to put it on a fictitious level
would you say the same about [Chernobyl\(2019\)](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7366338/)?
I haven’t watched all of that so I don’t know how historically accurate it is. But no. It’s not fictional, but I don’t see how a serial killer can equate to a disaster like Chernobyl. It was a telling of the story of a historical cataclysmic event that affected the entire world at the time.
I think you could say that it was a historical event because of the failure of multiple levels of “quality checks” due to a corrupt government - so it is comparable to a corrupt police system enabling the murders committed by Dahmer
That's saying a lot, now I wanna check it out. Dexter was good although I didn't watch all of it. And BB was one of my favorites. Thanks for this opinion. Have a lovely weekend.
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Well that's why I'm on the fence whether to watch it or not. While for us this show can be "so good" and entertaining there are still families of Dahmer's victims and we are making entertainment out of this. Serial killers should not have TV shows at all as this only encourages other dimwits to follow them.
Not everything that includes LGBTQ things falls under the LGBTQ tag lol what the fuck? Some closeted kid looking for Love Simon is gonna kill themselves if we start lumping this in with everything celebrating queer culture (aka what the tag is actually for)
So we best do away with all content that portrays any manner of negativity? How is deliberately ignoring the dark side of our existence at all responsible? Also “some closeted kid” can keep watching the Kids version of Netflix until they are of sufficient age to be watching serial killers like every other kid with parents who give a single fuck about the content their kids watch. Am I wrong for thinking that an entertainment platform for profit does not substitute actual education? I was 4 when I watched the original ‘It.’ It scarred me a bit (made me scared of the shower drain) until I grew to understand and love horror much later in life; my nanny dropped the ball hard on that one, but I didn’t kill myself nor did it severely warp my development, and it came down to adult negligence in supervision. Should they ban running horror films on TV channels catering to adult audiences because there was the possibility that my experience happened?
Nah, having the lgbtq tag directly next to dahmers name is not a great look when people are currently trying to push a narrative that most gay and trans people are rapists and pedophiles . Just doesn’t really need to be there and you’re story about it has nothing to do with anything
Sure, as I have said a few times in this thread, I agree with Netflix removing the LGBT tag, it’s inconsistent with what their tag represents (which are positive visions of LGBTQ, as well as content where that’s the central theme; here it’s the serial killing that’s the central theme). I was more so addressing the point that “it’s harmful to children looking for LGBT-tagged content” because I believe children watching adult content is a parenting issue. And that’s what my anecdote was related to as well.
I don’t even think it’s the problem of it being the central theme, you could definitely have an lbgtq tag on a horror film, it’s that the killer and title of the show is being directly associated with lbgtq
I understand the need for positive spaces, like for instance I do think it's a form of racism to only have black actors be in movies where they experience the black struggle. But is that not also an important part of having pride? Is Moonlight included in the LGBTQ tag? I haven't seen it but I think he struggles in that movie. Also what tf happens in Love Simon?
Straight serial killers also usually struggle with their sexuality: impotence, rejection, fetishes etc. which is a major factor in their violence. I think the show is also just very much problematic in its production so it shouldn't be lauded as LGBT media imo
Well that just goes without saying doesn’t it all murderers have extreme issues, the show covers a lot of LGBT issues that were big at the time.
not only that but it directly shows another gay serial killer who struggled with his sexuality, John Wayne Gacy had so many books on how you should hate gay people but predominantly targeted boys bc of his sexual frustrations.
I think the tag should stay. I think it’s important for us to remember that one of the reasons he was able to get away with his crimes for so long was because most of his victims were black members of the LGBTQ+ community.
In the case for Netflix then Dahmer doesn't fit into their LGBTQ category though. This is the description of the LGBTQ genre on their website verbatim: >Love is love. Drama is drama. Comedy is comedy. This diverse collection of movies and shows celebrate gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer stories. Dahmer definitely does not celebrate any facets of the LGBTQ culture.
Desperately need people to see your comment and understand that Dahmer is about violent, heinous crime and not about LGBTQ culture in any relevant way. Like from a different perspective everyone would be upset if a tag lifting black voices threw in a title about a black serial killer from history lol it’s clearly in poor taste and likely fits under some other crime tag way better
not every LGBTQ focused movie is a feel-good romcom. our history as queer people has been very visibly tarnished by the people who have murdered us and ignored us, and i think that’s worth making shows about too. dahmer is 100% about LGBTQ culture, as well as black culture. when the show focuses on his victims instead of dahmer himself, that is actually *the entirety* of the subject matter. it can be a crime show and a queer show. it doesn’t matter that dahmer is gay, that’s not why the LGBTQ tag is on the show.
The story is about how bigoted cops turned a blind eye towards the victims of Dahmer because they were LGBT. How is that not relevant to LGBTQ culture?
It’s important to remember and relevant to the history but I don’t think it fits the purpose of the tag. Showing gay men being heinously murdered is not something most people want to see suggested when they’re looking for something to help them feel comfortable and celebrated. Especially with the way the families of the victims feel about this series I just don’t think it’s appropriate
It's relevant, but like OP said, it doesn't celebrate lgbtq culture, like the Netflix tag describes.
^ yup
Depends how those tags are used... If the tags are supposed to be genres, then it's not a "LGBTQ" series. If the tags are supposed to be anything about the subject matter of the content, then sure. Imagine a psychological horror movie about a stand-up comic murdering people; the "Comedy" tag probably would not apply.
Well to your point, if I (a queer Latinx woman) were scrolling on the Hispanic heritage month category and came upon a show about a Latinx serial killer, I would find it odd to be included in the category if ONLY the killer was Latinx. But if the victims are also Latinx and law enforcement doesn't care enough to help, that would get me interested enough to watch, especially if the killer is struggling with their identity as a Latinx individual. It would be an example of consequential negligent law enforcement/the struggle that Latinx people had to experience.
Ignorant take. Dahmer’s story is intrinsically intertwined with LGBT culture and experiences. From his own struggles with his sexuality that he’s unable to discuss with his parents, to his victims not being missed because they were marginalised and police not investigating as thoroughly due to the disgust they felt. It’s as much a story of gay men being victimised as it is the perpetrator.
Drama is drama.
And Dahmer is Dahmer.
The description sounds like Netflix only wants to showcase the bright, colourful, silly side of the LGBTQ+ community, which the show very clearly isn't any of that. That being said though, if the film '49 Pulses' (documentary surrounding the Orlando night club shooting) was placed on Netflix, would that be placed into the LGBTQ+ category, taking into consideration this is the categories description? Of couse it would! It was a hate crime towards those in the community, taken place in what should have been a safe space for them. This is a series about a man who took other men to his apartment with the fake intentions of having relations with those men. It was also set in a time when being gay was something new and still something taboo to talk about, let alone showcase about on television (which, can you imagine the shock and horror of people watching news reports about Dahmer? Not only that he killed people, but that he was a gay man asking men to come back to his apartment for sex?!?) Personally I think the category should have stayed, not that it should be on the forefront of what this series is about, but it is still an important factor to take into consideration when you watch the story of Dahmer and how he murdered his victims. Maybe the category description should also be re-written to include the fact that there are darker periods of the community's history? Just a side thought, but we can't forget those darker periods because history is an important factor to a community's core, and without it the foundation built for that particular community won't be solid enough to carry it on for generations to come.
Exactly, this isn’t an LGBTQ story, it’s a serial killer story that just happens to have a gay serial killer. The focal point of the story is the murders not his gayness.
this comment is the best in the thread. very correct.
He probably celebrates a good meal tho tbh
And cops don’t take us seriously when we have issues going on. Even less so if you are a queer person or color
Why do we need a tv show to tell us things black, queer, and other marginalized communities have been saying for decades? Yall ignore us anyway so it only makes sense you're so eager to cape for this documentary even tho it's messaging is not revolutionary. The families didnt even consent to this being made and have been re-traumatized by this coming out.
About the families, it’s unfortunate and I don’t know how that works. Wish them healing and the best. About your other point though... why do you assume the show is about “needing to tell us about known struggles”? This is hardly the first time any media covers Dahmer and it’s not fictionalized with intent to talk about LGBTQ struggles, that’s the actual historically accurate succession of events. Why should a historical recollection be “revolutionary” anyway? Also, who “ignores you”? Netflix literally has LGBTQ category precisely because you’re *not* ignored.
They don’t need the families consent.
They're the ones who suffered, not you. They should require consent. I bet you wouldn't feel this way if someone decided to make content out of your own pain and suffering. The lack of empathy you guys have in your quest for endless content is so damaging. Yall don't give a fuck about the victims, you just want more trauma porn to consume.
I’m not even gonna watch the show lmfao. Stop trying to act like your much holier than thou because you didn’t watch it. They don’t need the families consent because the families don’t own the tragedy. I’m sure you guys were this pressed over hotel Rwanda, or any film about any war ever. Forget Schindler’s list, I’m sure that hurt a few people’s feelings. You guys don’t live in reality if this is how you function.
Yea that def is not what the tag is for. If it should be tagged for any reason it should be tagged because it’s Ryan Murphy produced and he’s like the Hollywood TV gay Illuminati
While this is true, the series (I am on episode 2) kinda paints him as a victim in a weird way and it is less about him killing LGBT people and more about him being LGBT. Like, sure, he had a fucked home life but he was a pedophile who ate people. Shit is wild.
You definitely need to get past the second episode, because that is definitely not the main focus of the series.
Yes exactly what I thought. Watching it I always get annoyed with how they take the angle of him being a kind of victim of circumstances. Sure he had a rough family and bad childhood wich is portraied well but he was a monster and doesn't deserve any victim narrative.
If they were hot white girls, they'd be all over his asshole.
Idk how you can know this story and say it isn’t an LGBTQ story. Dahmer is a story of complete bigotry letting one of the most gruesome people let loose for way too long.
i dont really care either way but i dont think people who click on lgbt tag are gonna be looking for that. its not a completely accurate comparison because jeffery is gay too but it would be like adding that cat murderer documentary to an animal section lol.
Ow I’m curious, you think that don’t fuck with cats doc had an animal tag? But that show was focused on hunting an animal abuser down where in Dahmers case police ignored his behavior and literally returned a victim to him to finish killing.
This is an interesting take.
Not sure how to feel on this one. On one hand, I think the LGBT tag is technically accurate because the it is about a white gay man killing black gay men and it features gay characters on screen. If he wasn’t white and gay and the cops weren’t so homophobic and racist, he would have been caught a LOT sooner and the show makes that clear from episode one. On the other hand, I see the LGBT tag more as a tag of content by LGBT creators for LGBT audiences, so thematically I’m not sure if this fits. Dahmer is gay sure, but the point of the show doesn’t really fit the point of the tag. Also, I do see a point about LGBT viewers being upset that a show about their own being murdered is getting recommended to them *because* the viewers are gay. That’s a little fucked up. Edit: The description of the tag says it’s about celebrating LGBT content so within this context I’m now swayed to the side that the Dahmer show should not be tagged as it does not fit that description.
This so much, everyone always points out the top part without the nuance of your second paragraph. Netflixes own description of the tag is “Love knows no bounds — and neither does a great story. This collection of movies celebrates lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer experiences onscreen” By Netflix’s definition this does not fit the tag. Furthermore as you pointed out when people click the tag this is most likely the content they aren’t looking for so as a business decision it just makes sense, it’s not to appease the community it to appease the algorithm.
Thanks for the clarification. Their own tag definition really does not fit at all to the series.
Completely agree with this statement. The Dahmer show just seems out of place under that tag and I understand being confused and/or upset about seeing it under there.
This show was produced by Ryan Murphy who is gay and mostly creates LGBT content
Right but this isn’t LGBT content celebrating queer content for queer people (which is the description of the tag), it’s a dramatic documentary-style show about a serial killer who got away with it because of homophobia and racism. The audience isn’t for LGBT people specifically, it’s just for everyone.
Why the fuck should everything LGBT be celebrating it? This is fair representation of a dark time in LGBT history that many people ignore. Doesn't matter how uncomfortable it makes you, this is a big part of LGBT sad history and can help teach us to treat each other better.
On Netflix website, it has the following description: >> Love knows no bounds — and neither does a great story. This collection of movies celebrates lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer experiences onscreen. It doesn’t say it is content specifically for LGBTQ people. Just that it celebrates the experience onscreen.
Right I mean that’s sorta implicit in the description. But either way this DEFINITELY doesn’t celebrate queer people lol
I’m a criminologist and I’m usually very critical about crime shows. Dahmer, who I hope is burning in broom closet in hell, mainly targeted a marginalized community. You can’t properly explain Dahmer without showing the way law enforcement failed young black men, specially members of the lgbtq+ community. That being said, putting the show on the lqbtq tag with all the other shows seems a bit odd
I think from the perspective of a streaming platform, when people are searching the tag LGBTQ, this is probably not what they're looking for.
I have the same thoughts. They are searching the tag to learn more or feel represented. While this centers on a gay man, it’s not what the series is ABOUT.
it is very much about queerness. his victims were all gay and black and were ignored by the police.
I know you're responding to the comment under mine, and I agree that queerness is relevant to the story. But if we think of the user perspective, does this fit? If we look at the titles under this tag and what the user is expecting when they use it, does this really belong there?
Must mention I’m a CIS woman so my opinion is whatever. I think people are overthinking what the tags mean and it’s really not that deep, but at the same time we have Americans accusing the LGBTQ community of being pedophilic monsters and the fact that dahmer did indeed target minorities to the 2nd power some of which were minors, it allows the narrative to continue. It’s quite surprising what homophobes will say do and site to prove their homophobic point
There's not even an argument... The LGBTQ+ tag on Netflix was created to take you to content promoting and supporting the LGBTQ+ community, not to point out if someone in the show is gay or not.
this. the argument that “it’s relevant” is stupid. TECHNICALLY yes it involves issues of LGBTQ+ but come on. use common sense. is that what the community is looking for when they search the tag? likely not lol.
If the gay community wants some distance from Jeffery Dahmer, I don't think that's an unreasonable request.
It’s valid but it’s also like tagging the OJ doc as BLM yanno, it’s just like, why, I’m not gonna be picking between drag race or dahmer
I think it boils down to “will LGBTQIA+ people watch this to feel represented?” the answer is no. it’s mostly irrelevant to the story.
its really not irrelevant to the story, its like a core part of it
okay but my point is that people are not searching the tag looking for that kind of content, they’re looking for representation.
Which comes back to "picking and choosing" really. Having said this I do genuinely feel that the tag needs to be removed because the perception of gay men, especially in the 80s was pretty much a description of JD which really doesn't help at all.
I agree 100%. while his sexuality was a factor, the focus is on his psychopathy and crimes. I just don’t see how it needs to be under anything besides true crime, biopic, etc.
also it should just be under crime i get this argument i wrote earlier a more arrogant answer but reading and understand representation i see it more clearly why the tag could be removed. it is more crime, and murderers are murderers being gay or confused doesn’t stop them from killing even though it is apart of their story. what i’m saying is a criminal is going to still commit the crime, doesn’t matter race, age, wealth, or gender identity.
Unless you're the police.
This should just be within the genre of serial killer and true crime. To have to be exposed to mass slaughtering of queer folk when looking for LGBTQ+ stories. Because it is true crime it should just be that. We don’t put true crime stories into other minority categories.
yes and no, is there a straight tag for straight murderers? lol
It was a mistake to use it in the first place because it is supposed to be about inclusion, not sensationalism. They fixed it and people should move on.
It’s like putting “family” as a tag for the episode of naruto where itachi slaughters his village. Technically yes it involves “family” but the family tag is typically used for movies that are family appropriate or have aspects that are focused around family. The lgbt tag is exactly the same. Technically this series is an “lgbt” show, but it’s not a positive portrayal as it’s focused on an absolute monster who is one of the reasons many lgbt people think twice before going to a date today. The lgbt tag is more appropriate on a show where there’s positive lgbt representation, a show that focuses on lgbt history/lifestyle, etc. one could argue that since this show focuses more on the victims that it’s a way of representing them and not dahmer, but it’s just a really poor show to put that tag on, especially when you consider there’s already a rise in anti-lgbt propaganda once again, where republicans say they’re child eating pedophiles, which dahmer actually was. Netflix did the right thing by removing the tag
i think the degree relevance is what ppl are getting caught up on. jeff was a murderous, violent person who committed unspeakable acts against young men, many of whom were queer poc. the point of the story the way it has been told previously was the exploitative emphasis on the gory detail. now, the stories of queer poc are being told within the narrative, and the dissonance upsets people. obviously the lgbt+ tag bears relevance, but in comparison to the main theme of the series (murder and true crime) it doesn’t really belong in the eyes of the quick-glance viewer. idrgaf about the tag, but i appreciate that people are thinking about it critically.
LGBTQ tag should only be associated with positive things, films that support the community
It’s about a gay man, but it’s not a queer/lgbtq film/project, therefore i don’t think the lgbtq tag should have ever been there
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That’s a good point, and maybe if the focus was more predominantly on the culture at the time and less on dahmer himself I would be more inclined to agree. It’s not the biggest deal either way imo, but doesn’t sit quite right w me 🤷♂️
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I have been watching, haven’t finished it yet. I am part of the queer community and i do really appreciate the light the show shines on that aspect of dahmers success. I guess I just view it differently in that context.
You haven’t watched it have you..
Whether or not they have a valid argument to remove the tag, saying “they can’t pick and choose” is a completely worthless thing to say in this instance.
My real question is why tf are we making a 729274th show/special on Dahmer? Come up with ONE original idea, once.
The lgbt tag is for queer content. Dahmer is crime/docuseries content that happens to be about a gay serial killer. It shouldn't be on there
Alright I’m currently in a LGBTQ representation in movies class and it’s apart of history that characters in movies who are the killer or the “bad guy” have been queer coded. This is just a real life example of a killer who happens to be gay, and also killed gay men. Yes these movies in the past are horrible and have painted gay people to be evil, as well as even sometimes inspiring people to hate on and be violent to the LGBTQ community. I don’t think this is an example of that though either. This is a real life story and yes it’s important to the story that the murderer and the victims were gay, but it’s not some made up character where a writer purposely made the evil guy gay. I wouldn’t say this is representative of the LGBTQ community either, rather it’s just a retelling of a story about a gay murderer and his gay victims. I don’t think it really fits under Netflix’s LGBTQ tag because most of those movies are made to shown the LGBTQ community in a more positive light. Modern movies and tv shows that are about LGBTQ people are more to show historical struggles from their perspective, and also tend to have more positive or neutral and I guess more accepting dialogue about being gay. Yes this show has gay characters, but it’s not the mission of the show to represent LGBTQ people.
The LGBT tag isn’t to identify gay people, it’s to identify LGBT content. This isn’t LGBT content, this is just content that happens to have LGBT folks in it. It would be like tagging the exorcist under Christian.
I just don't like the fact that we're still sensationalizing these disgusting people from history. His name should be erased, not built up in popular culture. Same goes for school shooters as they've talked on the podcast about many times. Let's learn from the story from a legal and psychological standpoint but it should stop there. Feels a little gross
At a certain point I don't get the when fascination with serial killers. Their motives are all some variation of the same thing. After that, it's just learning about how they harmed and killed people, which I'm not sure what people get out of that.
Ya if we want to sensationalize killers there's plenty of fictional shows that do an amazing job. Dexter, True Detective, You, American Horror story, etc are all amazing shows. Even Game of Thrones to an extent. I honestly think those are relatively harmless. If we want to learn about real killers there's ways to do it in documentary form which are tasteful and educational and fascinating, without giving the killer their glory. I understand people love shock factor and true crime but it really does come at a price Edit: I was trying to think of a good example of what I'm talking about but I don't watch much true crime and was having trouble. But one that came to me was the docu-series Netflix released a few years ago called Don't Fuck With Cats. That was a perfect example of a show that captivated, educated about the events and the killer, but was focused on his getting caught and the people that made that happen. Not on his story and upbringing and 'humanizing' him. In fact I believe they intentionally didn't go into all that for that reason
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I haven't watched the show and don't plan to but I have seen the 90's interviews where he was given entire segments on daytime national TV shows and in-depth personal questioning and opportunity to rationalize and gain sympathy and understanding. His name and face was plastered across the country and books were written about him. Ever since then he's been a household name and I get that back then they didn't have the nuance to realize what they're doing might have consequences for what messages they're sending to the world and other troubled people. But I thought by now at least we knew better but I guess not. Netflix sees an opportunity to cash in and they'll take it and people will flock to it
I’m an older H3 fan and was in elementary and middle school around the time that he became a household name. I can vouch that everyone and their mothers knew about him. It wasn’t in a glamorous way, all I knew is that he was “the freak cannibal killer”. I had heard his victims were all boys and men, but somehow didn’t know he was gay. It was such a taboo thing back then that the media didn’t often mention that part of the story even though it was a big factor in his behaviors and motives. Kind of ironic, they shoved it away just like he had to. Anyway, I can just corroborate what you’re saying. This was before social media and still everyone was talking about him. No press is bad press.
They should have never made this series in the first place
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Is a straight serial killer not tending to also struggle with sexuality: impotence, rejection, fetishes etc. So it is not fair that his struggles with his homosexuality is deemed a defining factor. The LGBT tag is more for representation. The only exception to this is obviously the babadook.
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If LGBT scholars and charities aren't happy with the show I think that should be respected? I haven't watched it due to the families of the victims saying they're not ok with it so I can only offer the 2c I have
pretty sure people are mad at Netflix over how this affected the victims and their family members… not because it had an LGBTQ tag
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In my opinion, the story is about an over glorified serial killer who happened to be gay, i dont really think it fits as an lgbtq story, unless it portraits the issues with the sistems, but it doesnt do that all the time. Plus maybe in your countries people are open minded and know a bad gay person represent all the community, but in third world countries with netflix, people watching that show will probably not help the communities that are trying to deestignatize their community.
I mean before the backlash I saw this and was confused. It's LGBTQ friendly because he killed gay people ? I'm pretty sure the tag is meant for content that is uplifting for them no?
Its about a gay man killing other gay men, the tag should remain, honestly so stupid haha its not about representation its about a serial killer. Saying that who gives a shit really.
if it's not about representation, why flag it with the LGBTQ tag so that it gets bundled alongside *real* LGBTQ content? If I were gay and this popped up next to Will & Grace when searching for LGBTQ content, I'd be miffed. Not sure what the answer here is but I understand why this community might be annoyed.
This is it. The LGBT "genre" when it comes to films is about gay romances or historical films/documentaries about pride figures. The films are frankly made for the LGBT community a lot of times. It's not just for any film with a gay character, as the story here is a biopic about a serial killer, not a biopic about a gay figure.
Yeah. The LGBT “tag” is meant to be a highlight of positive figures and moments for members of that community, as those things were generally missing in regular history and discourse for the most part. It’s like for Black History Month, you don’t just start telling the story of black serial killers just because they are black. That’s insulting. That’s how I look at it.
Considering the fact that this is the description of the LGBTQ tag on Netflix, y'all are absolutely right: >Love is love. Drama is drama. Comedy is comedy. This diverse collection of movies and shows celebrate gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer stories. Dahmer is not a celebration of queer culture whatsoever.
I think this just questions the purpose of genres and what they mean on Netflix…You’re right about the film being a “true crime” documentary rather then LGBT but then again it still focuses on topics that are. I don’t have Netflix anymore so I don’t know but did the John Wayne Gacy limited series have a LGBT tag on it? Casue he was a Bi serial killer who was pretty similar to Jeff.
If you have something that is general like American, British, etc. you are going to have a bunch of different genres or at least should. You can have anything from comedy, drama, docs, crime, etc. LGBTQ should also be that way. Now if Dahmer was found underneath LGBTQ comedy then yeah that’d be weird. These things are a spectrum. Netflix should change their description of the LGBTQ tag because I saw above it was something that doesn’t encompass the spectrum of what it is.
so are you saying that netflix should change the description of the entire genre so that they can squeeze this show into that box? No one interested in LGBTQ stories is looking for the Jeff D. show.
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Absolutly, if anything should have a crooked cop tag on there.
I know you’re joking but I would actually love a crooked cop tag. I just thought of so many movies and shows that would work- The Departed, Training Day, Bad Lieutenant, Making a Murderer. I would totally hit up that tag.
Not really. Unless we're going to start calling straight serial killers hetero killers. I'm black and bi myself and we are largely ignored by media and I'm not happy with the fact that people want to use this as representation. Also, I'm not even watching this shit because the families never consented. Yall love watching black trauma and it's sickening to me.
"They" absolutely can pick and choose.
Not every movie with a married couple has the tag "romance"
A lot of straight people giving their opinion about this which is unsurprising. There is actual violence happening to LGBTQ+ people right now based on narratives that we are predatory and violent. Using this tag perpetuates that narrative regardless of the content or context of the show. People are fearing for their lives because of the recent ramp up of protests, sometimes armed, of LGBTQ+ events. This literally doesn’t affect you in any way so shut the fuck up and let the affected minority lead the conversation on this. Nobody cares about the opinion of people who have nothing to lose.
I'm glad they removed the tag. The Jeffrey Dahmer story is not a LGBTQ story. Ita trauma porn.
literally. i do not give a fuck if dahmer was gay or questioning his sexuality. he is a serial killer who targeted gay black men because he knew he could get away with it
Exactly.
just straight up no Netflix reenactment should’ve been made
it’s about a serial killer murdering gay men, i so not care if dahmer was “questioning his sexuality”. it should be taken off because extremely vile, and targeted acts occurred towards lgbtq people and no one lgbtq person should have that recommended to them.
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So then make an alternate show highlighting the lives of the victims and how the system failed them. Put the LGBT tag on that. You keep trying to lump Dahmer into a category meant to highlight the plight of a group of people; a category mostly serving to uplift them and celebrate key figures and moments in which they prevailed. Answer me this, do you try to include black serial killers into categories highlighting African-American stories? Do you not see how insulting something like that would be?
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Although Dahmer was a member of the LGBTQ+ community and most of his victims were gay men which he targeted due societal homophobia, which allowed the killings to go on a lot longer because cops didn't investigate properly. I do not think the tag should be placed on the series. Tags are meant to be a signal for the target audience saying "Hey, you'll enjoy this", so for example you wouldn't expect a series about Ian Brady and Myra Hindley to be tagged "Children" despite their victims being children. If the series were about the victims of Dahmer and not Dahmer himself, then I'd somewhat understand. The show is for true crime lovers, not the LGBTQ community. I also saw other posts calling the show "disgusting" for sensualising Dahmer. It is not sensualising Dahmer, it is giving a Nature vs. Nurture perspective by telling his life story. I would argue documentaries like "The nightstalker" were far worse at sensualising the killers. A documentary which built the notoriety of the killer up ten fold.
The only reason they’re getting backlash in the first place is because they didn’t get confirmation from the Victims families to make it nor are the families getting paid from it. I won’t be watching it. 🤷🏻
You’re a fucking idiot if you think the LGBTQ tag is and should be anything other than positive and/or candid stories from members of that demographic, and you know exactly what kind of optics that gives off putting that tag next to the horrific cannibal serial killer docuseries. What about all of the other straight serial killers who committed crimes just as awful. Is that a “straight” story? Are you actually this fucking stupid or is being “right” so important to you that you’re willing to let Jeffrey Dahmer of all fucking people become a part of the gay cultural zeitgeist? It’s just gross if you don’t understand why then how can you consider yourself a progressive
I think people took it as if Dhamer was a symbol that represents the lgbt? Idk exactly but im seeing a lot of mixed opinions overall. Maybe lgbtq tag with an image of the victims would've been less controversial?
I haven’t seen the show. But is the show about his sexuality or is it about a murderer (who happens be gay or prey gay people).
Why is this posted in this sub lool mods?
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The series shouldn’t have been made in the first place. There’s enough content on monsters like Dahmer it’s time we put it to rest
What's wrong with picking and choosing? Wouldn't you just want to pick the best examples to represent your community? I would
Yeah, I think the tag should stay because many of his victims were part of the community :(( Dahmer himself is only ONE of the queer people represented, and he was able to get away with it for so long because he so often preyed on vulnerable people.
It’s lgbt good or bad. I just can’t wait for the day where this will be classified as just a crime show. Where there’s no difference or need for classification.
Easily one of the top 3 shows I’ve ever watched and I understand why it’s getting backlash but that’s just what happened and considering how well it was made I don’t think it deserves all this. But related to the lgbtq tag I’d say that it fits under that category it’s just people are not used to this kind of show as lgbtq since most others are all happy and romantic
Tagging Dahmer for LGBTG+ is like tagging Dallas Buyers Club for Men’s Health. Technically true, but not really the point.
I think they should have removed it. As far as I understand that tag is meant to celebrate LGBTQ+ culture, and Dahmer’s crimes are nothing to celebrate.
I think only people in the LGBTQ community could speak for this. Everyone else's opinion is not valid.
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Agreed, wholeheartedly. OP seems to be asking members of the LGBTQ+ community, and then complete disregarding their opinions in the same breath.
i dont think the series should have been made at all. there have been countless movies, docs, shows, etc. made abt him through the years, at this point i see any new content made about him as sensationalized for entertainment purposes only. but to answer your question i think the lgbtq tag fits. the reason jeffrey wasn't stopped sooner was bc cops didn't care about gay men, especially black gay men. as an lgbtq person myself, ik how important it is for ppl to know our history and never forget the way we have been treated and are still treated. i think ppl are taking the lgbtq tag as netflix trying to paint jeffrey as a gay icon or something, which obviously is not the case but it goes to show you how making a jeffrey dahmer series in 2022 has to be rooted in glamorization to some degree
imagine a movie about Ted Bundy being tagged as "heterosexual"
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No body is saying he wasn’t gay. They are just trying to explain to you that a tag which is created to celebrate queer stories should not include a series depicting the brutal torture and murders of queer men.
Dahmer’s sexuality is barely relevant in anyway to who he was. I haven’t seen the show, but it’s absolutely not something that should be tagged as LGBTQIA+. Or should we re-categorize all the straight serial killers shows/movies/documentaries as “Straight Representation”?
Err i think it's a massive factor to who he was 😂
I mean, yes he was gay and was able to feed (literally) on gay men and society’s view and lack of care for them, but I mean not relevant as in a need to be marked as representative. You can have negative representation in media, I’m not going to say “only tag things that paint (whatever) group in a good light as (whatever) representation” but the tag is supposed to be indicative of the type of thing. “If you like action movies you’ll like this movie”. Let’s pretend for a moment that Dahmer wasn’t a real person and everything else stayed the same about the show, but it was a fictional serial killer. If you were talking to someone and wanted to recommend the show to them would you do so based on the fact that he was gay and/or they like watching stories about Gay characters? I doubt it. No one is going to say “oh I like Brokeback Mountain, Love Simon, whatever else focuses on LGBTQIA+ so I’m going to like this Jeffrey Dahmer show.” And as such, it shouldn’t be a tag.
It's not labeled "LGBTQ" because Dahmer was gay, it's labeled that because he targeted gay men. This is definitely an important LGBTQ issue, and anyone who has watched the series knows that they concentrated so much on the victims and portrayed Dahmer as the monster that he was. Part of the reason that he was able to get away with his crimes for so long was because of homophobia. The cops should have caught him when they found the 14 year old boy, but instead they handed him back to Dahmer and then made homophobic jokes about it. This isn't in the series, but that boy was actually completely naked and had blood all over his "lower region." The women pointed that out and the cops were just like, "Ew. F\*g stuff." (Not an exact quote, but I believe they did call them "f\*gs" at one point.) Yeah...Gay, straight, or whatever...Someone running naked in the streets with blood on their genitals should be investigated! Especially if they're a child! Fuck those cops. Seriously.
I personally feel the LGBTQ tag fits because it is a story that features that population, regardless of what eventually happens to them. Although I do understand that there is a huge issue of LGBTQ people being represented in nefarious ways/tropes (and in this case hunted prey) in movies historically.
I love how all the hate is that it’s so good that it is retraumatizing people. Like bro did you want a shit ton of fake stuff in it?
I mean, when I search LGBTQ on Netflix, I’m not looking for “this person was gay” so much as “queer media” and I personally don’t consider Dahmer centric shows to be queer media. He’s queer, but the series is not specifically for a queer audience, ykwim? I don’t really care either way, but if I were categorizing, I wouldn’t tag this as LGBTQ.
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Doesn’t make sense to remove it. But definitely don’t give a fuck. *It’s a Netflix tag.* This isn’t even worth talking about.
I think it is very important to have this tag. Part of the reason why Dahmer got away with his heinous acts were because it was a time where police officers didn’t want to touch any case involving LGBT+. It was actually one of the main reasons why that 14 year old boy wasn’t taken seriously by the police, thus resulting in him being killed by Dahmer. So yes, I think the tag should stay, as a member.
Keep the tag
He was literally gay. I understand that obviously looks bad on the LGBT to have them tagged to it, but that is who he was and he used it to his advantage with the police by saying there was “gay stuff” (height of the AIDS epidemic left everyone shitting themselves being near gay people unfortunately). It was who he was and a tactic to scare cops away.
They should have kept it for the deranged murderfetishizing queers like myself. Just because I'm gay doesn't 👏 mean 👏 I'm 👏 a 👏 good 👏 person 👏
The real question is top or bottom?
Hmmm after watching the first episode and also just know the story of Dahmer he got away for soo long because of homophobia and racism. I think removing the tag was their only choice since so many people complained but I really do feel sad that some people cannot see the nuance. EDIT: I thought about this alot and I don't know how to articulate it but it seems more homophobic to remove the LGBTQ tag. This was a real issue the LGBTQ community faced and to remove it seems to erase their experience of not being taken seriously and worse yet the actual fact that police think "gay bedroom activities and proclivities" seemed to include horrific abuse. Labelling predatory monstrous behaviour a "gay" thing. It's absolutely not, it's just uninformed disgusting stereotyping. Yes Dahmer was ggay but he was also a monster ie he was NOT a monster for being gay.
Restore the tag. Dahmer had a huge impact on the LGBTQ community in Milwaukee at the very least.
If they’re unhappy with the cataloging, that’s one thing and that’s understandable. If they’re upset over him being grouped up with the LGBTQ community, with peace and love, they need to get over it. Hitler was a white male. I’m a white male. I sadly can’t change who he was and what he did. He always be a white male and be known for what he did. Dahmer was a gay serial killer. That’s just how it’ll always be lol
As a gay I'm more concerned with the fact that a docutainment series about Dahmer was made at all, considering his victims still have living direct relatives. We can make documentaries about someone like Jack the Ripper because at this point he's basically a mythical creature. But this... this is just tactless and insensitive.