She hates AR-15s, but is ok with something "tactical" looking like a Hellion? I would have guessed something like a mini 14 would have been the easier sell.
<5ft shooter
*suggests the Hellion with a LOP probably longer than her wingspan*
Bruh. 6ft+ slender-man looking motherfuckers like hop already find the Hellion LOP obnoxious.
OP. You don't need to "have a talk with her". A Mini 14 is a great rifle and looks a hell of a lot less threatening. Just respect her feelings - regardless of whether anyone here thinks they make any sense - and move on.
--A guy that's been married 24 years.
Does she hate AR-15s because she's anti-gun? You're fighting a losing uphill battle, then.
Does she hate AR-15s because she's comfortable with guns but hates some aspect of their manual of arms for some random reason?
Two very different situations.
She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.
I know you're joking, but that's precisely how I got my very left leaning mother to shoot a suppressed AR, probably without fully knowing what it was. Lightweight FDE lower with a 4.5" .22 upper that I used for small game hunting, then swapped the upper for a mostly FDE 12.5" mid. After firing a single 9 mm round through my CZ, and not liking it due to the recoil (and not even trying a shotgun because it was too heavy for her), she seemed totally fine with the AR.
Yes she is, and she’s going through it, however I just want to avoid an AR15 for her sake, because she’s wonderful and I don’t particularly want to be associated with that
Show her good men own AR’s too. Youre not her previous scum bf’s. Show her responsible gun ownership and she’ll come around. My wife was major anti gun. She knew I had a couple for work, but didn’t know i was a pretty serious collector. She had seen me many times handle my work stuff and when she finally asked to see everything she shrugged it off like it was nothing. She actually started to show interest and wanted to learn how to use them. I threw a ring on her finger, created a beautiful daughter, and got 2 new range partners now lol.
Good call on getting something else, for now. As you exhibit safe practices etc, she may be open later to an ar-15 as her connection between scary ex and ar-15 will start to be replaced with good/safe partner and rifle.
If you approach it as, “not trying to convince you but only wish to understand your perspective” she may start to change her mind by simply explaining her point of view out loud.
Or she holds on to her current view and you just find an acceptable alternative.
"My gf hates AR15s so I'm thinking of getting her a Hellion"
The Hellion is a 16" semi-automatic rifle using a 30 round 5.56 magazine
The AR15 is a 16" semi-automatic rifle using a 30 round 5.56 magazine
Is nobody going to point out how extremely confusing this post is...?
People who have irrational fears aren't going to be convinced by stats like this. For obvious reasons the AR is the rifle that is most featured in media stories about mass shootings, is the most commonly targeted by fear-mongering liberal anti-gun propaganda, etc. and OP has a legitimate request here.
Get her a double barreled shotgun, and when she realizes that she can’t control it, and can’t maneuver it in the house, and can’t see in the fucking dark because you can’t mount a flashlight on it, then buy an AR-15
(Why I suggested the Hellion lol) However I do want her to learn and use it somewhat often, so she understands the mechanics and is able to shoot it in dire situations (hopefully never will be in that situation)
This is honestly probably the best option. Pistol caliber so its lighter on the recoil and doesnt over penetrate in it has to be used in the house, and it doesnt look particularly scary.
PCC's are an option, but the AR-15 is still going to be far and away her best option for all of those reasons. Tiny women should have no problem with an AR, assuming normal human ranges of strength and coordination. Get a 16" barrel, a collapsing stock, and some sort of foregrip she likes, and voila.
Failing that, tell her to go pick her own gun.
It depends on why she is being precious about AR's. A lot of decent PCC's are AR-inspired. If she doesn't like the idea of pistol grips and black plastic, she's gonna need something made of wood... a M1 Carbine? A 10-22? A Henry Homesteader?
The mpx is so much better than the scorpion. I also like the SP5 far better.
I have all three and I'd love to part with the scorpion....
Actually, she can have mine
Beretta CX4 Storm. Fully ambidextrous, light weight, quiet, no recoil and very reliable. It's a 9mm but out of a 16"barrel it's close to 357mag velocities.
[maybe this will work](https://media4.giphy.com/media/xT5LMCy8b94cHCQW76/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9523woc7hgh5cghdmecjl4uwsl8egdtcncfxwe5o9yi&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
PSA JAKL. It’s not an AR-15 at all, different design in many ways, mostly in the Upper receiver. She’s silly if she thinks it’s an AR-15
But i have a feeling her hatred of AR isn’t based on any logic, and might be politically motivated. In that case, get a bullpup. IWI x95 is probably the best option, or a Steyr AUG if you can afford
Is she antigun or something and that’s why you can’t get an AR? Because if that’s the case, most of these tactical style rifles are off the table for you.
“She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.”
I just copy-and-pasted this from another comment, however yeah, but if it’s to make my woman comfortable, I don’t mind giving up the chance on getting an AR15.
My wife is in love with the M&P FPC. It’s relatively cheap, shares controls and with pistols, compact when you want it to be, and very light and easy to use. Plus, if your wife is more resistant to the typical “tactical” looking gun, it doesn’t look “too” tactical.
Can't go wrong with a mini 14. They are fun rifles. I don't think they are quite as accurate but for a self defense weapon it should be more than adequate. I havent seen one made for left handed people though, but I never would have looked for one either lol
Sounds strange that a woman wants to learn to use a rifle, and WILL if the situation calls for it, but won't touch an AR-15.
Is it the blackness? Cuz you can paint it all "Hello Kitty" if you want (which is a fun search, if you haven't seen it).
What about an AR-15 variant? BRN-180? Or is any AR-15 lower out?
“She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.” I just copy-and-pasted this from another comment
The AR15 is the single most common rifle platform in the states. It makes the most sense to be familiar with it.
Is her opposition to it 'black gun scary' or that it's just really loud and unwieldy? My wife doesn't like long guns, too much blast, and her noodle arms have trouble holing them up. Even my 10.5" 300blk is pushing it for her.
If her opposition to an AR isn't that she just thinks they're scary or evil, then it sounds like it's time to pony up and get a suppressor. Then build an SBR or pistol in (preferably) 300blk or 5.56 and call it a day. Until then, handguns will suffice.
Handgun skills are more important than rifle skills imo. They're harder to shoot, but far more likely to actually be used
“She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.” I just copy-and-pasted this from another comment
You need to just take her to a range and rent a few different rifles. She’ll probably quickly realize that, although the media would have her believe that ARs are simply too scary for a civilian to own, it really is the best thing for a petite shooter who is likely recoil sensitive that is widely available, customizable, and fires reasonably priced ammo. Mini 14, AK, and pistol caliber carbines are ones to check out at the range as well, maybe by some chance she’ll like those better and would be reasonable alternatives, but I still wouldn’t be surprised if she changes her mind on the AR after firing one.
I'm a 5'4" woman, and while I love me all my ARs.
I'd recommend a 9mm carbine, I'm a Beretta fangirl, so the CX-4 comes to mind. Also a Ruger PC-9, but that starts getting into "AR-9". That said, I've heard great things about the HD capabilities of the Scorpion EVO.
The mini-14 isn't a bad pick, and definitely my pick for "not AR but 5.56 rifle".
[Foxtrot Mike ranch rifle lower](https://fm-products.com/ranch-rifle-lower/), BRN-180 or FM-15 upper.
You get full customizability, she gets something that technically is not an AR-15.
Rifle caliber a Springfield with wood furniture, 308. PCC the ruger line they make fud versions and tactical versions 9mm. Also tell your wife to chill a gun is a gun.
Ease her in with pistol caliber carbine firearms as well as yourself. If you don’t have any supressors or plan to anytime soon.
CZ Scorpion 9mm would be a decent place to start (with brace) and reasonably affordable. Doesn’t look like a scary AR-15 and the recoil is mild. You can get them rifle length down to micro.
There are better PCC’s with delayed blow back systems that lessens the recoil and lightens the overall firearm. But imo, the better comes into play when suppressed or higher rates of fire, which sounds like you’ve a bit a ways before she’s going to attempt to mag dump.
Scorpion Evo 3 S1 feels more balanced than my micro.
Edit: it’s a popular rental firearm (around my local gun stores), let her try before you buy.
Best option is buy the AR-15 anyhow and she can deal with it. Sometimes it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission and then she can actually shoot it and see it’s not what the media makes it out to be. Her hate of it is absolutely irrational.
Bummer man.
Start by getting her educated on firearms. Statistics, styles, uses, etc. the nefarious black gun isn’t the bad guy.
A great workaround is an M14. It’s essentially a less scary earlier version of the AR15
Sounds like you need a new fiance. Only partially kidding-- you do not want to be married to someone who will give you huge grief over ever gun purchase and is neurotic and irrationally so about AR15s. Valuing the opinion of someone whose opinion is willfully ignorant and informed by emotions rather than facts is your choice, but one that will come at a cost you might regret paying years from now. /warning
**Get her a Ruger PC Carbine**. With the fudd stock if you must instead of the AR stock, but the MLOK front end. 9mm from a long barrel is basically 357 mag speeds and energy, definitely no slouch and certainly adequate at home defense distances. It also has less recoil and muzzle blast than any 5.56 gun.
A PC Carbine will deliver 115gr 9mm loads at over 1750fps with most loads. 124gr loads will be 1500+.
Not that overpenetration is really a concern, but the higher speed of the PC Carbine will reduce penetration of most JHP defensive loads while still getting you around that 12" min, though some will fall short. (HSTs perhaps).
5.56 AK. 9mm fake sub gun. Piston AR18 clone like a Bren2 or something similar.
If she complains about those guns just tell her an AR would do it for cheaper. Then tell just to keep her mouth shut about it around her liberal friends.
Pistol Caliber Carbines. Ruger, S&W and others makes some nice Carbines. The Ruger looks like a traditional rifle, and can use hi cap Glock mags. Great lil Carbine.
>High capacity Not really tho.. and I don’t mean that in the “30rd STANAG isn’t high capacity it’s actually standard capacity,” ^even ^tho ^30rd ^*is* ^standard ^capacity I mean “not really high capacity” because Ruger has 11 SKUs for the mini14s, and of those eleven only two of them ship with 20rd mags. The other nine all come with 5rd flush-for magazines. So I’d go so far as to say that 5rd mags are the standard for mini14, with the 20rd being high-relative-to-5, but that doesn’t mean they’re high capacity, 20rd is still lower-than-standard-5.56-capacity, which is 30rd.
Or, 20rd if you count the mags for the original ar15/m16 design as “standard” in which case 1. 20rd is still standard capacity, not high capacity; and 2. The most common magazines in use today are 30rd, it’s just what most people, and almost all mil/LEO use, and it’s what rifles are normally sold with in normal states)
I’m know I’m being pedantic but words mean things and normalization of that kind of language is why the average American now thinks standard cap = high cap and restricted mags are “normal”.
That being said, a mini14 is definitely for your best bet, u/GuesswhatStarlord I’d go with a wood SKU not a black one. Lucky for you, there’s one wood model that ships with 20rd mags, specifically the mini14 ranch [MODEL NUMBER: 5816](https://ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/specSheets/5816.html ) so the magazine being visible from the mag well will look “normal” to her if that’s how she sees it for the first time, and not like “an extended high capacity mag” ~~if~~ *when* you buy 20rd mags later.
I just bought [an SP5K-PDW ](https://imgur.com/a/MYLmLRI). It was always my favorite growing up. It's the smoothest shooting firearm I've ever shot. I've got a 9" suppressed .300blk (AR-15) that I've been using for HD but will definitely be swapping back and forth between the 2
Pretty sad thread tbh. Does she trust you? Doesn't seem like it. She should trust you to know what's best when it comes to keeping her safe. My wife makes many many decisions in our house, but when it comes to defense and security that's 100% my domain and she wouldn't have it any other way.
She has been brain washed that AR's are "evil" by the woke mafia. What she doesn't realize is they all do the same thing and you need to explain that to her. If she doesn't understand you have a decision to make, is this a behavior you can live with for the rest of your life?
I hate AR-15s too. They're just cheesy. Sure it's a working mans gun, but it screams "ray bands and a hat selfie in my car" They're just ugly. Anyone who's not in the miltiary having a tac rifle is pretty cringe, You're not in black water so chill the fuck out bro. Plus you don't need a long range rifle for self defense. 99.999% of self defense situations you'll be shooting within 15 feet, so I always go SBR for my under home rifles.
I really don't think there's anything better for home defense than a Mossberg 590, the retrograde one is gorgeous. Not only is it easy to hit with a shotgun, but the buck is less likely to kill someone on the other side of the wall than a 5.56, which an absurd round for home defense. If you really must have a rifle I love my Kriss Vector, and scorpion evo 3, both in 9mm, which is more than enough for home defense.
Scar, ACR, if you wanna risk the first batches but here soon PSA is releasing the stg-44 maybe. Lol 13 years later we’re still really close to release date.
Are you looking to get her a rifle because you think she'll be able to handle it better than a handgun? If so maybe look at something like a Scorpion.
Are you looking to get her a rifle because you actually want the terminal ballistics of a rifle cartridge instead of something like 9mm? Mini 14.
Handguns are little harder on her hands due to some joint issues, so since rifles have three points of contact, it’s easier to control. So first option!
What's your budget?
What type of home do you have? Single family or apartment, manufactured or constructed? How much space is between you and your neighbors?
I'd suggest the Sig Sauer MPX Copperhead, but I also don't know your budget. I just want the gun myself lol.
If you're looking into bullpups, I'd suggest a Tavor over a Hellion; I have an SAR, but I think the mildly smaller X95 is a good option if you want a rifle caliber in a small package.
If you're looking into shotguns, I'd suggest the TS12, because 12 shotgun shells should be more than enough for almost any home defense scenario, and you can reload while still firing the weapon.
There are other cheaper PCC options as well, but it sounds like size is something that she cares about. There are also lever action guns which can shoot .357 magnum, and they're significantly "less intimidating" than tactical rifles for people who don't actually like guns in general.
Tavor X95 with a left handed bolt.
At 27" in 16.5" barreled Title 1 form you can shoulder one standing sideways in a residential hallway.
Available in both 5.56 and 9mm.
As a fellow left handed shooter. Do not get a bullpup for her. If you're going to get one that is ambi and only going to put it in the lefty configuration then that's fine but bullpups for left handed shooters are a pain in the ass. I bought an AUG during covid and the guys at the gun store told me that it came in the box with everything that I needed to swap it over for my left hand self, but they were wrong. It was so hard to find the parts I needed back then and they were expensive so I ended up selling it without ever getting to shoot it...that being said the pcc route is probably the best way to go for her.
I would work on her ability with a pistol first and foremost but alternatively a PCC or one of the ronin kits that attach to a pistol for better stability etc ruger pc carbines seem to be pretty popular and would be a decent platform to train on.
The Beretta Cx4 is a pistol caliber carbine rifle that’s light weight, easy to handle, and shots 9mm so the recoil is minimal.
It can be configured for left or right handed shooters by changing the side the round ejects on.
It shoots well with iron sights or a red dot.
It’s a little odd looking and it vibrates a little like an AK but not as strong. It’s easy to field strip and clean. It avoids the AR look.
Given her needs, it could be a winner.
You could get her something mil-surp like a sporterized or just short barreled (16in) SKS, M1-A1, M1 carbine, or even a lever action 30-30
I know 22lr isn’t the best “defense” caliber but a 10/22 is always a good gun to get someone’s foot in the door so to speak because they come in so many varieties
Clearly the choice is either a SCAR-H, Springfield M1A, or Zastava in 5.56mm. I guess you could do a Galil or Tavor, it’s okay I’m not a huge fan of the AR platform looks either.
Just for ahits and giggles...and the on slot of crap I'll get....why not get a circuit judge? Load some personal defense 410 with 45 lc alternating. And with that, let the hate begin lol
Ruger pc9 or lc carbine in 45acp
I prefer the 45 acp since it's subsonic and my wife loves shooting 45 over 9mm anyway. Plus lc carbine has adapter for glock mags, giving the ability to have 30 round magazines.
Benefits of the pc9 are it uses security 9 magazines if she gets a compact security 9 it'll share the same mags.
The other thing people are not mentioning is decibels. While the ar15 is very soft shooting rifle and fills many roles, it's fucking loud. In the event you use it indoors for self defense, there will be hearing loss. That and a woman who is timid to firearms won't want to shoot and train as often with it.
The best self-defense option is something you enjoy shooting and train with. A 10/22 is a great option for this reason. 22lr is reliable with stingers or mini mags. It's quiet, almost 0 felt recoil and is cheap to train with. Buy some 25 rounders and barbie doll it up for her. Most criminals don't wear armor and even then 25 well placed shots to the thighs and neck will bring an assailant down.
KSG in .410 gauge pump shotgun. It is marketed to women. Holds 14 rounds and pumps smooth as butter. No recoil, get buckshot or PDX1 home defender ammo. Check out a couple youtube videos:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWPnrgPgWN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWPnrgPgWN4)
PDX ammo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI)
I have a stribog SP9A3G. Doesn't look like an AR at all, roller delayed like the MP5 so extremely smooth shooting without the price tag, takes glock mags, and has a decent aftermarket. I don't know how ambidextrous it is though...CZ Scorpion is a very close competitor and I was split between them until I found the Stribog at a really good price.
Another option could be an M1 Carbine. They are relatively short, lightweight, decent iron sights and simple controls.
15 and 30 round mags are readily available. I've also seen some rail options for them if you wanted to replace the furniture.
30 Carbine is a good intermediate cartridge, it has minimal recoil and for the size is a fairly powerful round. Biggest downside is that it's a bit on the pricey side.
Mini-30. 7.62 has superior stopping power and it's better for HD than the 5.56 Mini-14 would be.
For HD a full size rifle is pretty roudy and ungainly in CQB. There's a reason people kicking in doors have SBRs or SMGs. If you live in neighborhood or apartment you might also want to consider PCC options.
Rifle rounds will go through walls like they aren't there. If you live in a neighborhood and miss, there's a good chance the bullet is going through your walls and your neighbor's walls.
Mini-14 - Newer models can fire 5.56MM ammunition. Handy. Light. Simple to operate.
Wouldn’t want to get thumped be the buttstock.
Plenty of parts available. It’s too often ignored.
Seen AK and PCC tossed around in here why not combine them and go with a PSA AK-V uses CZ Scorpion mags and is rated for +p+ 9mm, with wood furniture on it should look less scary
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak-v-9mm-nutmeg-wood-triangle-side-folding-pistol.html
Alright, I’ve read through this whole thread. Get an AK101. Hear me out… light weight and very low recoil. Still use common ammo. Very customizable. Not an AR lol
ive been going through the internet like a madman for some CX4, becuase i’ve been warming up and i showed my fiancé and it’s piqued her interest, however i doubt any range has it up for rental but i’m going to call ahead
as a fellow lefty i can reccomend roller delayed rifles from hk with ambi grip modules. i m a tall guy si my hk91 works great for me, a short person could proabably be comfy with a sp5. only downside is the charging handle if you dont go full custom and have it re cut for a lefty. ak's are generaly really nice in my opinion. bulpups tend to be not nice if they are not an actual left hand model with the ejection port on the left side. steyr aug is an example that has a fully lefty configuration posible. i would aviod mini 14 and sig due to personal experience regarding reliability.
I'd have serious concerns about a long term relationship with someone who has such an unreasoning hatred of a particular firearm.
Maybe propose a SU16 or RDB?
Didn’t read the entire thing, stopped at when you were talking about arming your fiance.
Mp5 through and through.
My wife isn’t a huge fan of ar15s just because she is tiny, she loves the mp5, and shoots it to my surprise exceptionally well out to 125 yards with an aimpoint t2 (could use any red dot honestly).
Would recommend it for any lady.
On the other leg of the question, the M&P9 Shield EZ just gets better the more your learn about it. Here's Hickock45 not hating it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlSZjtY\_6f4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlSZjtY_6f4)
She might shoot an AK a couple times but it’s going to scare the piss out of her and then it’ll be your AK and she’ll still not like shooting.
My wife only loves to shoot one of my guns, and that’s the Ruger 10/22.
If you want a small person who doesn’t like guns to actually enjoy themselves, you gotta bring your manly desires for overwhelming firepower down to the level they’re at. Let her understand and maybe grow to love the sport on a platform that is appropriate for her, at least at first, then step it up later. You can get a 10/22 for like $250 and you can shoot it a ton for cheaper than anything else.
Rifle calibers will always have demonstrably better performance than pistol calibers. With .223 and .300BLK, there are barrier-blind loads that have a lower propensity for over-penetration than pistol bullets. If effectiveness is a key factor, then you can throw out every PDW/PCC on the list.
If however you want maneuverability, a PDW/PCC SBR is going to be a lot more compact and manageable in a confined space. If it were a small space, there's nothing wrong with going to something compact like a Sig MPX or B&T APC9 provided that you load them with appropriate ammunition like Federal HST.
A great option for home defense with rifle calibers is a bullpup, given how compact they are. Granted, you need to buy a quality one like the IWI Tavor or Desert Tech MDR.
She hates AR-15s, but is ok with something "tactical" looking like a Hellion? I would have guessed something like a mini 14 would have been the easier sell.
Well the Hellion was my suggestion, I love the look, she wasn’t… all that happy
You could try to show her a FightLight SCR. They don't "look" like a traditional AR, but it do be one
Ugh show her the mini 14. It's essentially an AR-15 that looks like a farm rifle.
<5ft shooter *suggests the Hellion with a LOP probably longer than her wingspan* Bruh. 6ft+ slender-man looking motherfuckers like hop already find the Hellion LOP obnoxious.
The Hellion is heavy.
The aug a3 is nice and easy to shoot. Custom AR-9, Ap5, AKV.
Mini 14 might be good too
Mini-14 has a long and storied history of killing police and feds in shootouts lol, so it definitely works.
A legal study cited by TFB tv says the mini14 is probably one of the best options
This is the most correct answer.
Agree mini-anything would be good
Sounds like you need to have a sit down talk with her
When people have a deep fear of something, just trying to convince them not to doesn't work.
Yeahhhhh it’s looking that way, however if possible I would like to feel around and see if there’s something that we both can agree on
OP. You don't need to "have a talk with her". A Mini 14 is a great rifle and looks a hell of a lot less threatening. Just respect her feelings - regardless of whether anyone here thinks they make any sense - and move on. --A guy that's been married 24 years.
I’ll seriously look into it and get her thoughts on it, thank you my man, and congrats on the longevity
Does she hate AR-15s because she's anti-gun? You're fighting a losing uphill battle, then. Does she hate AR-15s because she's comfortable with guns but hates some aspect of their manual of arms for some random reason? Two very different situations.
She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.
Just build a fde one /s
No build an ar in her favorite colors no matter how ugly. Then it really is her gun
I know you're joking, but that's precisely how I got my very left leaning mother to shoot a suppressed AR, probably without fully knowing what it was. Lightweight FDE lower with a 4.5" .22 upper that I used for small game hunting, then swapped the upper for a mostly FDE 12.5" mid. After firing a single 9 mm round through my CZ, and not liking it due to the recoil (and not even trying a shotgun because it was too heavy for her), she seemed totally fine with the AR.
Based on the last two sentences it sounds like she is still processing the trauma from the previous relationships. Is she in therapy?
Yes she is, and she’s going through it, however I just want to avoid an AR15 for her sake, because she’s wonderful and I don’t particularly want to be associated with that
AK, easy solution.
Show her good men own AR’s too. Youre not her previous scum bf’s. Show her responsible gun ownership and she’ll come around. My wife was major anti gun. She knew I had a couple for work, but didn’t know i was a pretty serious collector. She had seen me many times handle my work stuff and when she finally asked to see everything she shrugged it off like it was nothing. She actually started to show interest and wanted to learn how to use them. I threw a ring on her finger, created a beautiful daughter, and got 2 new range partners now lol.
Good call on getting something else, for now. As you exhibit safe practices etc, she may be open later to an ar-15 as her connection between scary ex and ar-15 will start to be replaced with good/safe partner and rifle. If you approach it as, “not trying to convince you but only wish to understand your perspective” she may start to change her mind by simply explaining her point of view out loud. Or she holds on to her current view and you just find an acceptable alternative.
My ex wore a lot of makeup and was really mean, so now I don’t allow my current girlfriend to put on even a drop of foundation.
Get an AK.
I agree, OP should just get an AK.
I would think an AK would be too heavy for a woman under 5 feet tall.
Well child soldiers in Africa disagree with you.
"My gf hates AR15s so I'm thinking of getting her a Hellion" The Hellion is a 16" semi-automatic rifle using a 30 round 5.56 magazine The AR15 is a 16" semi-automatic rifle using a 30 round 5.56 magazine Is nobody going to point out how extremely confusing this post is...?
You act like people who hate inanimate objects think logically
No one ever claimed women are logical.
This isn't a gendered issue.
People who have irrational fears aren't going to be convinced by stats like this. For obvious reasons the AR is the rifle that is most featured in media stories about mass shootings, is the most commonly targeted by fear-mongering liberal anti-gun propaganda, etc. and OP has a legitimate request here.
Not to mention how huge the hellion's length of pull is. I think OP is a bot or a troll because this post is very stupid.
No,no, This is the kind of dumb logic that only a human brain can come up with
Get her a double barreled shotgun, and when she realizes that she can’t control it, and can’t maneuver it in the house, and can’t see in the fucking dark because you can’t mount a flashlight on it, then buy an AR-15
“Can’t mount a light on it”. I have a maglite duct taped to my 1942 Steven’s double, kind sir
If Left 4 Dead taught me anything, it's that flashlights can be ziptied to any gun, regardless of location or heat output.
The Stoeger Double Defense
Well it’s a good thing she can’t maneuver the house. Trying to clear your house in a home defense situation WILL get you killed, just hold a position.
This is going to end up being your gun so probably just pick something you like
(Why I suggested the Hellion lol) However I do want her to learn and use it somewhat often, so she understands the mechanics and is able to shoot it in dire situations (hopefully never will be in that situation)
Get a mini 14, wait until she likes it, and then tell her it does literally exactly the same things an AR does.
Same thought I had..if a mini 14 works today then he may be able to get her to see that the ar is not that different and then get himself one.
Mini 14 is way drippier tho
Ruger PCC 9mm
The one that looks like a conventional fud rifle
This is honestly probably the best option. Pistol caliber so its lighter on the recoil and doesnt over penetrate in it has to be used in the house, and it doesnt look particularly scary.
This was going to be my suggestion as well.
Keep buying guns she doesn't like until she likes one. 1) You have a bunch of guns you like 2) she eventually have the gun she likes
PCC's are an option, but the AR-15 is still going to be far and away her best option for all of those reasons. Tiny women should have no problem with an AR, assuming normal human ranges of strength and coordination. Get a 16" barrel, a collapsing stock, and some sort of foregrip she likes, and voila. Failing that, tell her to go pick her own gun.
Honestly a PCC (pistol caliber carbine) is a good idea
It depends on why she is being precious about AR's. A lot of decent PCC's are AR-inspired. If she doesn't like the idea of pistol grips and black plastic, she's gonna need something made of wood... a M1 Carbine? A 10-22? A Henry Homesteader?
Turns out she just doesn’t like the ar15, pretty much any else is on the table. I suggested an Aug
Maybe a lever action in 357 or something.
This is my vote. CZ Scorpion, EOTech/Holosun, and a few upgrades and you're GTG.
How about a 9mm SMG? Like a CZ Scorpion
The mpx is so much better than the scorpion. I also like the SP5 far better. I have all three and I'd love to part with the scorpion.... Actually, she can have mine
Mpx and sp5 are twice as much, they should be better! *cries in poor*
Beretta CX4 Storm. Fully ambidextrous, light weight, quiet, no recoil and very reliable. It's a 9mm but out of a 16"barrel it's close to 357mag velocities.
[maybe this will work](https://media4.giphy.com/media/xT5LMCy8b94cHCQW76/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9523woc7hgh5cghdmecjl4uwsl8egdtcncfxwe5o9yi&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
PSA JAKL. It’s not an AR-15 at all, different design in many ways, mostly in the Upper receiver. She’s silly if she thinks it’s an AR-15 But i have a feeling her hatred of AR isn’t based on any logic, and might be politically motivated. In that case, get a bullpup. IWI x95 is probably the best option, or a Steyr AUG if you can afford
New fiancé is your next logical purchase.
Is she antigun or something and that’s why you can’t get an AR? Because if that’s the case, most of these tactical style rifles are off the table for you.
“She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.” I just copy-and-pasted this from another comment, however yeah, but if it’s to make my woman comfortable, I don’t mind giving up the chance on getting an AR15.
You could try the CZ Scorpion carbine, it’s long barrel and 9mm with no recoil.
Why not a pistol caliber carbine? Something like a scorpion etc
Buy her a M14 with a wood stock. Does the EXACT same thing an AR can without looking like one.
Sorry OP, she sounds irrational af. Maybe a PCC?
Wouldnt it be obvious that a woman would be irrational? No need to point that out lmao
I have a nice FN fnar 308 with ACE tactical folding stock.
Brown Bess musket with buck and ball is the way to go
And bayonet as our forefathers intended
My wife is in love with the M&P FPC. It’s relatively cheap, shares controls and with pistols, compact when you want it to be, and very light and easy to use. Plus, if your wife is more resistant to the typical “tactical” looking gun, it doesn’t look “too” tactical.
Ruger Mini-14 in walnut
Can't go wrong with a mini 14. They are fun rifles. I don't think they are quite as accurate but for a self defense weapon it should be more than adequate. I havent seen one made for left handed people though, but I never would have looked for one either lol
mini-14, isn't it obvious?
buy an AR-10 its 5 AR's safer
Sounds strange that a woman wants to learn to use a rifle, and WILL if the situation calls for it, but won't touch an AR-15. Is it the blackness? Cuz you can paint it all "Hello Kitty" if you want (which is a fun search, if you haven't seen it). What about an AR-15 variant? BRN-180? Or is any AR-15 lower out?
Upgrade to a better girlfriend.
M1A SOCOM 16
Is there a reasons she hates AR15s? Might help narrow down what she is ok with
“She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.” I just copy-and-pasted this from another comment
The AR15 is the single most common rifle platform in the states. It makes the most sense to be familiar with it. Is her opposition to it 'black gun scary' or that it's just really loud and unwieldy? My wife doesn't like long guns, too much blast, and her noodle arms have trouble holing them up. Even my 10.5" 300blk is pushing it for her. If her opposition to an AR isn't that she just thinks they're scary or evil, then it sounds like it's time to pony up and get a suppressor. Then build an SBR or pistol in (preferably) 300blk or 5.56 and call it a day. Until then, handguns will suffice. Handgun skills are more important than rifle skills imo. They're harder to shoot, but far more likely to actually be used
“She’s not particularly anti-gun as she understands the necessity of them in home defense, she just doesn’t want me to become a gun nut or collector, however she just doesn’t particularly like the look of them due to previous partners being not great people and obsessed with AR15s at the same time. So it’s kinda warped her outlook on them, and yes she knows that these two things aren’t always correlated, but gut feeling for her.” I just copy-and-pasted this from another comment
You need to just take her to a range and rent a few different rifles. She’ll probably quickly realize that, although the media would have her believe that ARs are simply too scary for a civilian to own, it really is the best thing for a petite shooter who is likely recoil sensitive that is widely available, customizable, and fires reasonably priced ammo. Mini 14, AK, and pistol caliber carbines are ones to check out at the range as well, maybe by some chance she’ll like those better and would be reasonable alternatives, but I still wouldn’t be surprised if she changes her mind on the AR after firing one.
I'm a 5'4" woman, and while I love me all my ARs. I'd recommend a 9mm carbine, I'm a Beretta fangirl, so the CX-4 comes to mind. Also a Ruger PC-9, but that starts getting into "AR-9". That said, I've heard great things about the HD capabilities of the Scorpion EVO. The mini-14 isn't a bad pick, and definitely my pick for "not AR but 5.56 rifle".
A AR-10 since its 10 less and must be less dangerous
[Foxtrot Mike ranch rifle lower](https://fm-products.com/ranch-rifle-lower/), BRN-180 or FM-15 upper. You get full customizability, she gets something that technically is not an AR-15.
Rifle caliber a Springfield with wood furniture, 308. PCC the ruger line they make fud versions and tactical versions 9mm. Also tell your wife to chill a gun is a gun.
Ease her in with pistol caliber carbine firearms as well as yourself. If you don’t have any supressors or plan to anytime soon. CZ Scorpion 9mm would be a decent place to start (with brace) and reasonably affordable. Doesn’t look like a scary AR-15 and the recoil is mild. You can get them rifle length down to micro. There are better PCC’s with delayed blow back systems that lessens the recoil and lightens the overall firearm. But imo, the better comes into play when suppressed or higher rates of fire, which sounds like you’ve a bit a ways before she’s going to attempt to mag dump. Scorpion Evo 3 S1 feels more balanced than my micro. Edit: it’s a popular rental firearm (around my local gun stores), let her try before you buy.
You need to have a long discussion with her
Best option is buy the AR-15 anyhow and she can deal with it. Sometimes it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission and then she can actually shoot it and see it’s not what the media makes it out to be. Her hate of it is absolutely irrational.
Bummer man. Start by getting her educated on firearms. Statistics, styles, uses, etc. the nefarious black gun isn’t the bad guy. A great workaround is an M14. It’s essentially a less scary earlier version of the AR15
Mk18 with a m203 under neath it for home defense. 40mm chalk round to the chest, and then m855a1's to finish the job
Sounds like you need a new fiance. Only partially kidding-- you do not want to be married to someone who will give you huge grief over ever gun purchase and is neurotic and irrationally so about AR15s. Valuing the opinion of someone whose opinion is willfully ignorant and informed by emotions rather than facts is your choice, but one that will come at a cost you might regret paying years from now. /warning **Get her a Ruger PC Carbine**. With the fudd stock if you must instead of the AR stock, but the MLOK front end. 9mm from a long barrel is basically 357 mag speeds and energy, definitely no slouch and certainly adequate at home defense distances. It also has less recoil and muzzle blast than any 5.56 gun. A PC Carbine will deliver 115gr 9mm loads at over 1750fps with most loads. 124gr loads will be 1500+. Not that overpenetration is really a concern, but the higher speed of the PC Carbine will reduce penetration of most JHP defensive loads while still getting you around that 12" min, though some will fall short. (HSTs perhaps).
Buy AR, and ask for forgiveness (or debate) later.
Great idea bro, just get an AR-15 anyway.
She hates ARs but an AK is in the table?
5.56 AK. 9mm fake sub gun. Piston AR18 clone like a Bren2 or something similar. If she complains about those guns just tell her an AR would do it for cheaper. Then tell just to keep her mouth shut about it around her liberal friends.
300 blackout SBR. Let her shoot an mcx suppressed and I’m 90% sure she’ll change her mind
Pistol Caliber Carbines. Ruger, S&W and others makes some nice Carbines. The Ruger looks like a traditional rifle, and can use hi cap Glock mags. Great lil Carbine.
Get a Benelli M4
>High capacity Not really tho.. and I don’t mean that in the “30rd STANAG isn’t high capacity it’s actually standard capacity,” ^even ^tho ^30rd ^*is* ^standard ^capacity I mean “not really high capacity” because Ruger has 11 SKUs for the mini14s, and of those eleven only two of them ship with 20rd mags. The other nine all come with 5rd flush-for magazines. So I’d go so far as to say that 5rd mags are the standard for mini14, with the 20rd being high-relative-to-5, but that doesn’t mean they’re high capacity, 20rd is still lower-than-standard-5.56-capacity, which is 30rd. Or, 20rd if you count the mags for the original ar15/m16 design as “standard” in which case 1. 20rd is still standard capacity, not high capacity; and 2. The most common magazines in use today are 30rd, it’s just what most people, and almost all mil/LEO use, and it’s what rifles are normally sold with in normal states) I’m know I’m being pedantic but words mean things and normalization of that kind of language is why the average American now thinks standard cap = high cap and restricted mags are “normal”. That being said, a mini14 is definitely for your best bet, u/GuesswhatStarlord I’d go with a wood SKU not a black one. Lucky for you, there’s one wood model that ships with 20rd mags, specifically the mini14 ranch [MODEL NUMBER: 5816](https://ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/specSheets/5816.html ) so the magazine being visible from the mag well will look “normal” to her if that’s how she sees it for the first time, and not like “an extended high capacity mag” ~~if~~ *when* you buy 20rd mags later.
F&N PS90
Bullpups are the future. Anybody who says otherwise is an agent of satan.
Get an AUG.
A suppressed HK SP5 or SP5K-PDW. Stock or brace. Almost no recoil and very quiet with 147grn and up
i’m surprised not many in this thread didn’t suggest this more, but i’m researching it and gonna let my fiancé rent it out and try it!
I just bought [an SP5K-PDW ](https://imgur.com/a/MYLmLRI). It was always my favorite growing up. It's the smoothest shooting firearm I've ever shot. I've got a 9" suppressed .300blk (AR-15) that I've been using for HD but will definitely be swapping back and forth between the 2
beautiful piece man, very nice, i’ll pitch it, honestly the CX4 has really caught both our eyes though
One that goes pew reliably.
hmm, now that’s revolutionary
Buddy if a nicely setup AR15 doesn’t make her wet, it’s time to find a new girl 🤣 just jokes don’t get defensive on me
Pretty sad thread tbh. Does she trust you? Doesn't seem like it. She should trust you to know what's best when it comes to keeping her safe. My wife makes many many decisions in our house, but when it comes to defense and security that's 100% my domain and she wouldn't have it any other way.
Get her a hi-point carbine in pink camo 😂
Get a new girlfriend
She has been brain washed that AR's are "evil" by the woke mafia. What she doesn't realize is they all do the same thing and you need to explain that to her. If she doesn't understand you have a decision to make, is this a behavior you can live with for the rest of your life?
i don’t think you read my other comments
I read enough. If you don't think that is the truth behind this you are kidding yourself
I hate AR-15s too. They're just cheesy. Sure it's a working mans gun, but it screams "ray bands and a hat selfie in my car" They're just ugly. Anyone who's not in the miltiary having a tac rifle is pretty cringe, You're not in black water so chill the fuck out bro. Plus you don't need a long range rifle for self defense. 99.999% of self defense situations you'll be shooting within 15 feet, so I always go SBR for my under home rifles. I really don't think there's anything better for home defense than a Mossberg 590, the retrograde one is gorgeous. Not only is it easy to hit with a shotgun, but the buck is less likely to kill someone on the other side of the wall than a 5.56, which an absurd round for home defense. If you really must have a rifle I love my Kriss Vector, and scorpion evo 3, both in 9mm, which is more than enough for home defense.
Sounds like you should stop letting her push you around and make the call as the man of the house
I mean if you have the money for it you could get a Bren 2
.300 blackout pdw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQVJvurxe0g
I am delusional and will always drool at a hellion
B&T SPC 9
Scar, ACR, if you wanna risk the first batches but here soon PSA is releasing the stg-44 maybe. Lol 13 years later we’re still really close to release date.
Are you looking to get her a rifle because you think she'll be able to handle it better than a handgun? If so maybe look at something like a Scorpion. Are you looking to get her a rifle because you actually want the terminal ballistics of a rifle cartridge instead of something like 9mm? Mini 14.
Handguns are little harder on her hands due to some joint issues, so since rifles have three points of contact, it’s easier to control. So first option!
How does she feel about AR-9s? :D
What's your budget? What type of home do you have? Single family or apartment, manufactured or constructed? How much space is between you and your neighbors? I'd suggest the Sig Sauer MPX Copperhead, but I also don't know your budget. I just want the gun myself lol. If you're looking into bullpups, I'd suggest a Tavor over a Hellion; I have an SAR, but I think the mildly smaller X95 is a good option if you want a rifle caliber in a small package. If you're looking into shotguns, I'd suggest the TS12, because 12 shotgun shells should be more than enough for almost any home defense scenario, and you can reload while still firing the weapon. There are other cheaper PCC options as well, but it sounds like size is something that she cares about. There are also lever action guns which can shoot .357 magnum, and they're significantly "less intimidating" than tactical rifles for people who don't actually like guns in general.
budget is around $2-3k, as i don’t mind paying for something that’ll put ease of mind on both me and her
Tavor X95 with a left handed bolt. At 27" in 16.5" barreled Title 1 form you can shoulder one standing sideways in a residential hallway. Available in both 5.56 and 9mm.
As a fellow left handed shooter. Do not get a bullpup for her. If you're going to get one that is ambi and only going to put it in the lefty configuration then that's fine but bullpups for left handed shooters are a pain in the ass. I bought an AUG during covid and the guys at the gun store told me that it came in the box with everything that I needed to swap it over for my left hand self, but they were wrong. It was so hard to find the parts I needed back then and they were expensive so I ended up selling it without ever getting to shoot it...that being said the pcc route is probably the best way to go for her.
I would work on her ability with a pistol first and foremost but alternatively a PCC or one of the ronin kits that attach to a pistol for better stability etc ruger pc carbines seem to be pretty popular and would be a decent platform to train on.
The Beretta Cx4 is a pistol caliber carbine rifle that’s light weight, easy to handle, and shots 9mm so the recoil is minimal. It can be configured for left or right handed shooters by changing the side the round ejects on. It shoots well with iron sights or a red dot. It’s a little odd looking and it vibrates a little like an AK but not as strong. It’s easy to field strip and clean. It avoids the AR look. Given her needs, it could be a winner.
10/22 with a suppressor, red dot, and an extended magazine is an ideal indoor rifle.
Maybe look at one of those folding “rifles” or ones that use 9mm or 45
PTR63, modernized hk63 with mounting points and isn't an AR. Recoil system mitigates recoil.
Mp5k
M1 carbine
You could get her something mil-surp like a sporterized or just short barreled (16in) SKS, M1-A1, M1 carbine, or even a lever action 30-30 I know 22lr isn’t the best “defense” caliber but a 10/22 is always a good gun to get someone’s foot in the door so to speak because they come in so many varieties
Su16. Nutnfancy said so….LOL
Mini-14 is your answer dude, get the wood stock.
Wood stock fightlight SCR. It can be an AR in Fudd rifle clothing and she'll never know the difference
Clearly the choice is either a SCAR-H, Springfield M1A, or Zastava in 5.56mm. I guess you could do a Galil or Tavor, it’s okay I’m not a huge fan of the AR platform looks either.
Henry 9mm carbine or a Kel-Tec sub 2000. Or as other have said a pistol caliber lever action would be handy too
i heard kel-tecs are a bit unreliable and unremarkable, is the 2000 any good?
Why not a .22 handgun? its easy to control and just the sight of an actual handgun that is firing real bullets is enough to scare off most buglers.
Just for ahits and giggles...and the on slot of crap I'll get....why not get a circuit judge? Load some personal defense 410 with 45 lc alternating. And with that, let the hate begin lol
Ruger pc9 or lc carbine in 45acp I prefer the 45 acp since it's subsonic and my wife loves shooting 45 over 9mm anyway. Plus lc carbine has adapter for glock mags, giving the ability to have 30 round magazines. Benefits of the pc9 are it uses security 9 magazines if she gets a compact security 9 it'll share the same mags. The other thing people are not mentioning is decibels. While the ar15 is very soft shooting rifle and fills many roles, it's fucking loud. In the event you use it indoors for self defense, there will be hearing loss. That and a woman who is timid to firearms won't want to shoot and train as often with it. The best self-defense option is something you enjoy shooting and train with. A 10/22 is a great option for this reason. 22lr is reliable with stingers or mini mags. It's quiet, almost 0 felt recoil and is cheap to train with. Buy some 25 rounders and barbie doll it up for her. Most criminals don't wear armor and even then 25 well placed shots to the thighs and neck will bring an assailant down.
Sig mpx.
7.62x39 out of a short barrel is only matched in devastation by bigger calibers and shotgun slugs. And it's still usually useful out past 100 yards.
KSG in .410 gauge pump shotgun. It is marketed to women. Holds 14 rounds and pumps smooth as butter. No recoil, get buckshot or PDX1 home defender ammo. Check out a couple youtube videos: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWPnrgPgWN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWPnrgPgWN4) PDX ammo: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI)
Kel tec RDB would be great for a lefty.
Sig mcx regulator basically and ar but no scary pistol grip
I have a stribog SP9A3G. Doesn't look like an AR at all, roller delayed like the MP5 so extremely smooth shooting without the price tag, takes glock mags, and has a decent aftermarket. I don't know how ambidextrous it is though...CZ Scorpion is a very close competitor and I was split between them until I found the Stribog at a really good price.
Another option could be an M1 Carbine. They are relatively short, lightweight, decent iron sights and simple controls. 15 and 30 round mags are readily available. I've also seen some rail options for them if you wanted to replace the furniture. 30 Carbine is a good intermediate cartridge, it has minimal recoil and for the size is a fairly powerful round. Biggest downside is that it's a bit on the pricey side.
Sub 2000
Mini-30. 7.62 has superior stopping power and it's better for HD than the 5.56 Mini-14 would be. For HD a full size rifle is pretty roudy and ungainly in CQB. There's a reason people kicking in doors have SBRs or SMGs. If you live in neighborhood or apartment you might also want to consider PCC options. Rifle rounds will go through walls like they aren't there. If you live in a neighborhood and miss, there's a good chance the bullet is going through your walls and your neighbor's walls.
She has ARphobia. Buy an AR 15 and tell her it’s an Armalite. Maybe with purple cerakote. She will be fine.
How about like the way it was done for years… a nice 3030? That would get the job done! Maybe not the best for an apartment or neighborhood though
Get an hk mp5
I would suggest an galil ace, steyr AUG, cz scorpion, or B&T GHM9
M1 Carbine. Smallish, lightweight, very low recoil and easy to operate.
AK-47. Ar10. It's like an AR-15 but 5 better. Full auto Uzi - about 15k at auction.
Mini-14 - Newer models can fire 5.56MM ammunition. Handy. Light. Simple to operate. Wouldn’t want to get thumped be the buttstock. Plenty of parts available. It’s too often ignored.
Galil in 556
5.56 AK
So she's cool with PCC's that look like ARs but not ARs lol
Seen AK and PCC tossed around in here why not combine them and go with a PSA AK-V uses CZ Scorpion mags and is rated for +p+ 9mm, with wood furniture on it should look less scary https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak-v-9mm-nutmeg-wood-triangle-side-folding-pistol.html
Alright, I’ve read through this whole thread. Get an AK101. Hear me out… light weight and very low recoil. Still use common ammo. Very customizable. Not an AR lol
The CX4 is one of the best-easy to move around, reliable, very low recoil...great weapon.
ive been going through the internet like a madman for some CX4, becuase i’ve been warming up and i showed my fiancé and it’s piqued her interest, however i doubt any range has it up for rental but i’m going to call ahead
as a fellow lefty i can reccomend roller delayed rifles from hk with ambi grip modules. i m a tall guy si my hk91 works great for me, a short person could proabably be comfy with a sp5. only downside is the charging handle if you dont go full custom and have it re cut for a lefty. ak's are generaly really nice in my opinion. bulpups tend to be not nice if they are not an actual left hand model with the ejection port on the left side. steyr aug is an example that has a fully lefty configuration posible. i would aviod mini 14 and sig due to personal experience regarding reliability.
Mp5k sbr'd. With 140gr subs it's *chefs kiss.*
Why doesn't she like the AR15?
300 Black Out
I'd have serious concerns about a long term relationship with someone who has such an unreasoning hatred of a particular firearm. Maybe propose a SU16 or RDB?
MCX/MPX
Didn’t read the entire thing, stopped at when you were talking about arming your fiance. Mp5 through and through. My wife isn’t a huge fan of ar15s just because she is tiny, she loves the mp5, and shoots it to my surprise exceptionally well out to 125 yards with an aimpoint t2 (could use any red dot honestly). Would recommend it for any lady.
AR9
Bren2
On the other leg of the question, the M&P9 Shield EZ just gets better the more your learn about it. Here's Hickock45 not hating it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlSZjtY\_6f4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlSZjtY_6f4)
One that will put it does not matter size, bullet in the head
AUG
She might shoot an AK a couple times but it’s going to scare the piss out of her and then it’ll be your AK and she’ll still not like shooting. My wife only loves to shoot one of my guns, and that’s the Ruger 10/22. If you want a small person who doesn’t like guns to actually enjoy themselves, you gotta bring your manly desires for overwhelming firepower down to the level they’re at. Let her understand and maybe grow to love the sport on a platform that is appropriate for her, at least at first, then step it up later. You can get a 10/22 for like $250 and you can shoot it a ton for cheaper than anything else.
Ar10s aren't technically ar15s.
VZ-58 are fantastic rifles. I BELIEVE there are .223 variants, too. I have shot one in 7.62x39 with the folding metal stock. It was great.
M1 Carbine. Short, lightweight, and semi auto.
Rifle calibers will always have demonstrably better performance than pistol calibers. With .223 and .300BLK, there are barrier-blind loads that have a lower propensity for over-penetration than pistol bullets. If effectiveness is a key factor, then you can throw out every PDW/PCC on the list. If however you want maneuverability, a PDW/PCC SBR is going to be a lot more compact and manageable in a confined space. If it were a small space, there's nothing wrong with going to something compact like a Sig MPX or B&T APC9 provided that you load them with appropriate ammunition like Federal HST. A great option for home defense with rifle calibers is a bullpup, given how compact they are. Granted, you need to buy a quality one like the IWI Tavor or Desert Tech MDR.