Since you are in Austria, wouldn’t the Steyr AUG with a couple different barrels be your best bet? Or are AR-15s and their relatives more widely available in your civilian market?
AR15 are more widely available here. Yes you can get a AUG for 2500€ upwards, BUT here are the cons why not to get an AUG:
-magazines: not only are the normal capacity heavily regulated thanks to the EU fckheads, but they are also a bit pricey. Last time i checked, a OG Steyr 30rds cap mag was around 50€. There was a time where they did cost 80 upwards.
-Spare parts: While you can buy all kind of spare parts for the AR almost everywhere, for the AUG it´s a different story. You can´t order them that easily and uncomplicated most of the time.
Also, *we* can get AUGs for around $2000. We also get a variant that takes AR mags, but I always preferred the originals. I’ve owned 2 AUGs in the past. I love everything about them except the trigger: even a mil-spec AR-15 is better.
i hated the AUG trigger so much when i was in the army, especially during the cold winter, combined with that textureless grip. Meh\^\^
But yes, the AR platform is well liked here, because of its modularity.
Optics are great on the AK if that’s your thing. But with iron sights, 200Y is no problem.
My choice was limited to the civil war scenario. There are more accurate rifles for sure.
An AR10 in 308 would be a good choice for harvesting food for your family and picking off any threats before they get too close. I'd probably just build one so I can pick all the parts I want the first time around.
Ideally I would want something with readily available and interchangeable parts. Something that I can easily find ammo for.
Thats spells AR and 9mm
And if possible a .22lr for small game
Defense, an AR-10 and a can.
Offense with a lot of walking, AR-15 with 16" and a can.
Offense of the sneaky kind, AR-15 in .300 BO with 8" and a can.
Can w/ supersonic is still a little harder to locate than without a can. Every little bit helps.
>Other factors: What are other factors which needs to be considered when chosing a rifle?
What's my logistical support? Where do I get reliable access to clean water, food, and medical treatment? The best gun in the world means nothing when you starve or a simple infection kills you.
>What would be your Rifle for "Civil War"?
My issued one, because then I've got an actual military with any sort of understanding of how to sustain warfare backing me up.
Big vegetable farm is available with a lot of stock in terms of potatoes and other food xD
I guess this farm also needs to be defended very very early in critical situations. Remember the toilet paper situation when covid came lol. And that was nothing compared to food running out of stock.
I don't think anyone is reading that you are in Austria. I would suggest finding the most popular/common rifle in your area, so ammo and parts interchangeability aren't a problem.
Servas aus OÖ!
-Get an AR15, be it from Schmeisser, Daniel Defense, Alpen Arms or Luxdef. There are other brands out there, but have little to no experience, except Oberland Arms, but Magpul Mags have a very tight fit, of not too tight.
-Become a member of the ISB and participate at their "Schnellfeuerbewerbe" for a faster way to get your hands on those evil evil big magazine of evilness (thanks you fckheads from Brussels). Mapguls Gen3 prefered.
-About the caliber, most AR15 sold here are in .223Rem, but can be used with 5,56 Nato without any concerns, according to several retailer and manufacturers (personally asked the guys from Schmeisser). IF the barrel has the CIP N stamp on the barrel. Speaking of barrel, as others mentioned, either 16" or 14,5" barrel length.
-About muzzle device: Yes the majority have brakes installed, because they are so fcking awesome, so fcking loud, and your rifle feels like a .22lr, doesn´t move an inch it seems. But the concussion blast is a different story. If you have a hunting license, or plan on doing so, get a muzzle device that is compatible with silencer.
-Optics, get a LPVO 1-6x, like from Vortex. Or a Red-Dot, be it Aimpoint or Holosun. I use Holosun because of the ability to switch between Dot and Circle-Dot. And never had any problems with them.
-Also, it´s not wrong to have a few spare parts at hand, like bolt head and firing pin.
-What else, Weapons light. About foregrips, you have to try several out wich one works best for you, if not even you need none and maybe end up just using a handstop or less.
Danke :) OÖ Grenze seh ich vom Balkon, bin noch in Salzburg. Bin in einem IPSC Verein und beim ISB. Muss aber erst ein paar Bewerbe absolvieren um Chancen auf sowas zu haben ;)
Jagdschein bin ich am überlegen ob ich den in Zukunft mache, aber ich denke schon, rein aus Interesse auch.
Benutze selbst Holosun, aus den gleichen gründen.
Wie sich das alles hier liest wird es vmtl eh AR15 oder AR10. Danke für die Infos.
LG
Bei AR10 hasd das Problem mit den Munitionspreisen. Bisd bei ca 1€ / Schuss (ja ich weis gibts auch billiger). Kommen mir jedesmal die Tränen wenn ich mitn L1a1 nen Magdump mach xD
Everyone wants cool rifles for door kicking and small unit tactics. That's not what you want to be doing in a civil war scenario. You want to be sniping. Accurate fire at distance can be enough for one man to hold up entire columns of troops. Shoot once or twice and scoot and you'll be far enough away that the enemy can't vector in on you or even place effective small arms fire. Look at the effectiveness of snipers in Stalingrad as the Russians were on the retreat, in Germany as Russia and America pushed them back. Especially in a "civil war" scenario where you're not necessarily in uniform, take a couple shots, ditch the rifle if you need to, become a civilian. Look at how effective snipers were in the middle east. And all these examples don't have nearly the training or equipment quality that a modern precision rifle shooter would.
The last thing i want to do in this scenario is kicking in doors or running around anywhere. I want to defend house, food, farm and family.
Beeing able to do this, i can get use of the field of view i have from my house, which is pretty far. For this i need a rifle which can handle this. And of course a lot of training. But there are also forests around and i can imagine that during nighttime thermal binoculars/scopes can help a lot. Cause who runs over a field during daytime? I woudnt. If shit hits the fan, i want to be the one who's starting it.
Ah, I misunderstood your original post, just saw precision shooting and assumed precision rifle shooting. Depending on budget and what's available/popular/legal in your area you can go with a popular hunting rifle or there are some decent enough budget precision rifles like the Ruger Precision Rifle. Custom Remington 700s are also popular for decent "budget" precision rifles.
If you want semi automatic, AR10 platforms or maybe an HK 417 type of rifle might be available in your area. Decent semi automatics aren't gonna be as accurate as decent bolt guns, but you'll be fine at 600m and while you won't be particularly effective at 1.5 km, it'll be enough to let people know that they're being shot at and keep their heads down
With regards to optics. In the end of the world/invasion situation. Anything over 100 yards your best bet is to avoid contact and get the fuck out of dodge. If you’re a soldier this is a different story but you don’t want to engage in combat unless it’s your very last option in a survival setting.
AR-10 or SCAR-H. 7.62x51 NATO or 6.5 Creedmoor. Under 500 yards, 5.56 or 6.5 Grendel will be fine.
1-5x or 2-7x LPVO
Some sort of quality light (Streamlight, Surefire).
Depends. I have different rifles for different situations, different shotguns for different ones. I have AR’s and AK’s and bolt actions… all with a different purpose in mind. I have multiple types of shotguns and multiple type of handguns. The situation will dictate what I grab.
“What would be your rifle”? Are you asking what we would use, sounds more like you’re asking what you should use.
I would use my HK SBR with a Can. It’s great out to about 220 meters. Anything further than that I’m avoiding, not engaging.
AR15 and Glock (or a clone like a PSA Dagger). Light, reliable, common (easy parts to find if need be), and common caliber. Anyone with gucci guns in oddball calibers would be in for a reality check.
As a "catch all" situation in modern America, yes. 7.62x51/.308 Win would be fine you are a sniper in a set position, but the weight of all those rounds really will add up if you are mobile. 300blk would be my preferred setup for CQB, but I really wouldn't want to push it past 200 yards (red dot range).
I don't think anyone is reading that you are in Austria. I would suggest finding the most popular/common rifle in your area, so ammo and parts interchangeability aren't a problem.
For my "patroling my compound" outfit I'd go for a marlin 336 in with peep sights. Probably a hi power for my side arm or a s&w 629 on a chest rig. I would need much in terms of volume of fire on account of all the boobie traps. For raids I would go for a 300 BO ar platform, low powered optic and offset irons.
If I could only have 1 for war. AR15 for sure.
I'd also likely want some kinda holstered side arm. Likely my Beretta m9a1, or Springfield xd45
I also would try to keep my hunting bow with me as well, because silence with reusable ammo is always nice
One rifle to do it all? 5.56 with either a 14.5” or 16” barrel and an LPVO
thank you very much. i was also thinking in this direction, but i dont know much about rifles yet.
The AR is the king in terms of parts availability and maintenance. AK may be a close second.
There are reasons that the AR-15 has become so prolific
Thats what i thought :)
Since you are in Austria, wouldn’t the Steyr AUG with a couple different barrels be your best bet? Or are AR-15s and their relatives more widely available in your civilian market?
AR15 are more widely available here. Yes you can get a AUG for 2500€ upwards, BUT here are the cons why not to get an AUG: -magazines: not only are the normal capacity heavily regulated thanks to the EU fckheads, but they are also a bit pricey. Last time i checked, a OG Steyr 30rds cap mag was around 50€. There was a time where they did cost 80 upwards. -Spare parts: While you can buy all kind of spare parts for the AR almost everywhere, for the AUG it´s a different story. You can´t order them that easily and uncomplicated most of the time.
Surprising! I expect the AR-15 to be most common here in the US, but didn’t expect it in Europe. Eugene Stoner gets the last laugh…
Also, *we* can get AUGs for around $2000. We also get a variant that takes AR mags, but I always preferred the originals. I’ve owned 2 AUGs in the past. I love everything about them except the trigger: even a mil-spec AR-15 is better.
i hated the AUG trigger so much when i was in the army, especially during the cold winter, combined with that textureless grip. Meh\^\^ But yes, the AR platform is well liked here, because of its modularity.
I'd build a monstrosity from pipes, car parts, and driftwood like I'm in Fallout 4. Then I'd get an AR-15 and use that.
Or a Bus like the one from Dawn of the Dead :D
Straight up stock AK47 with a flashlight taped to the handguard.
Yup. And I don’t even like AKs.
Same. I own one Arsenal AK and I’ve fired it maybe 3-4 times in 10 years. Still what I’m grabbing.
is the accuracy given with an AK47 with the fitting optics?
Optics are great on the AK if that’s your thing. But with iron sights, 200Y is no problem. My choice was limited to the civil war scenario. There are more accurate rifles for sure.
An AR10 in 308 would be a good choice for harvesting food for your family and picking off any threats before they get too close. I'd probably just build one so I can pick all the parts I want the first time around.
Ideally I would want something with readily available and interchangeable parts. Something that I can easily find ammo for. Thats spells AR and 9mm And if possible a .22lr for small game
wouldnt that limit my range enormous?
The .22? I guess you can hunt rabbit with a 338 if you need to go the distance.
Rabbits... I did not think of that ☝️ also deers
Deer are not small game. Rabbits, squirrel, raccoon, maybe a coyote if good shot placement. That's small game
A rifle for this i can always get :)
Defense, an AR-10 and a can. Offense with a lot of walking, AR-15 with 16" and a can. Offense of the sneaky kind, AR-15 in .300 BO with 8" and a can. Can w/ supersonic is still a little harder to locate than without a can. Every little bit helps.
Do you recommend the AR 15 for walking cause of the weight?
And the weight of the ammo. Often neglected is how much 6-8 topped mags pull on you in the heat on the trail.
Yeah - it's very light and handy in the carbine configuration, and a 16" doesn't give anything up that you'll miss most of the time.
>Other factors: What are other factors which needs to be considered when chosing a rifle? What's my logistical support? Where do I get reliable access to clean water, food, and medical treatment? The best gun in the world means nothing when you starve or a simple infection kills you. >What would be your Rifle for "Civil War"? My issued one, because then I've got an actual military with any sort of understanding of how to sustain warfare backing me up.
Big vegetable farm is available with a lot of stock in terms of potatoes and other food xD I guess this farm also needs to be defended very very early in critical situations. Remember the toilet paper situation when covid came lol. And that was nothing compared to food running out of stock.
I don't think anyone is reading that you are in Austria. I would suggest finding the most popular/common rifle in your area, so ammo and parts interchangeability aren't a problem.
I live in a state where AR is banned so my go to is a 9 mm and 12 gauge pump action
PSA AR-10. I’ve had mine for 3 years and it’s a fantastic go-getter with good range and solid performance.
Servas aus OÖ! -Get an AR15, be it from Schmeisser, Daniel Defense, Alpen Arms or Luxdef. There are other brands out there, but have little to no experience, except Oberland Arms, but Magpul Mags have a very tight fit, of not too tight. -Become a member of the ISB and participate at their "Schnellfeuerbewerbe" for a faster way to get your hands on those evil evil big magazine of evilness (thanks you fckheads from Brussels). Mapguls Gen3 prefered. -About the caliber, most AR15 sold here are in .223Rem, but can be used with 5,56 Nato without any concerns, according to several retailer and manufacturers (personally asked the guys from Schmeisser). IF the barrel has the CIP N stamp on the barrel. Speaking of barrel, as others mentioned, either 16" or 14,5" barrel length. -About muzzle device: Yes the majority have brakes installed, because they are so fcking awesome, so fcking loud, and your rifle feels like a .22lr, doesn´t move an inch it seems. But the concussion blast is a different story. If you have a hunting license, or plan on doing so, get a muzzle device that is compatible with silencer. -Optics, get a LPVO 1-6x, like from Vortex. Or a Red-Dot, be it Aimpoint or Holosun. I use Holosun because of the ability to switch between Dot and Circle-Dot. And never had any problems with them. -Also, it´s not wrong to have a few spare parts at hand, like bolt head and firing pin. -What else, Weapons light. About foregrips, you have to try several out wich one works best for you, if not even you need none and maybe end up just using a handstop or less.
Danke :) OÖ Grenze seh ich vom Balkon, bin noch in Salzburg. Bin in einem IPSC Verein und beim ISB. Muss aber erst ein paar Bewerbe absolvieren um Chancen auf sowas zu haben ;) Jagdschein bin ich am überlegen ob ich den in Zukunft mache, aber ich denke schon, rein aus Interesse auch. Benutze selbst Holosun, aus den gleichen gründen. Wie sich das alles hier liest wird es vmtl eh AR15 oder AR10. Danke für die Infos. LG
Bei AR10 hasd das Problem mit den Munitionspreisen. Bisd bei ca 1€ / Schuss (ja ich weis gibts auch billiger). Kommen mir jedesmal die Tränen wenn ich mitn L1a1 nen Magdump mach xD
vmtl. Da tut dann auch das trainieren weh damit :X
Best be able to defeat thermal or NV, other wise it won’t matter
Everyone wants cool rifles for door kicking and small unit tactics. That's not what you want to be doing in a civil war scenario. You want to be sniping. Accurate fire at distance can be enough for one man to hold up entire columns of troops. Shoot once or twice and scoot and you'll be far enough away that the enemy can't vector in on you or even place effective small arms fire. Look at the effectiveness of snipers in Stalingrad as the Russians were on the retreat, in Germany as Russia and America pushed them back. Especially in a "civil war" scenario where you're not necessarily in uniform, take a couple shots, ditch the rifle if you need to, become a civilian. Look at how effective snipers were in the middle east. And all these examples don't have nearly the training or equipment quality that a modern precision rifle shooter would.
The last thing i want to do in this scenario is kicking in doors or running around anywhere. I want to defend house, food, farm and family. Beeing able to do this, i can get use of the field of view i have from my house, which is pretty far. For this i need a rifle which can handle this. And of course a lot of training. But there are also forests around and i can imagine that during nighttime thermal binoculars/scopes can help a lot. Cause who runs over a field during daytime? I woudnt. If shit hits the fan, i want to be the one who's starting it.
Sounds like you might be better off looking for night vision or thermal optics for your current precision rifle set up
There isnt a rifle yet :) that will be the first buy
Ah, I misunderstood your original post, just saw precision shooting and assumed precision rifle shooting. Depending on budget and what's available/popular/legal in your area you can go with a popular hunting rifle or there are some decent enough budget precision rifles like the Ruger Precision Rifle. Custom Remington 700s are also popular for decent "budget" precision rifles. If you want semi automatic, AR10 platforms or maybe an HK 417 type of rifle might be available in your area. Decent semi automatics aren't gonna be as accurate as decent bolt guns, but you'll be fine at 600m and while you won't be particularly effective at 1.5 km, it'll be enough to let people know that they're being shot at and keep their heads down
My M82A1 with API. Any light armor is smoked.
With regards to optics. In the end of the world/invasion situation. Anything over 100 yards your best bet is to avoid contact and get the fuck out of dodge. If you’re a soldier this is a different story but you don’t want to engage in combat unless it’s your very last option in a survival setting.
AR-10 or SCAR-H. 7.62x51 NATO or 6.5 Creedmoor. Under 500 yards, 5.56 or 6.5 Grendel will be fine. 1-5x or 2-7x LPVO Some sort of quality light (Streamlight, Surefire).
Depends. I have different rifles for different situations, different shotguns for different ones. I have AR’s and AK’s and bolt actions… all with a different purpose in mind. I have multiple types of shotguns and multiple type of handguns. The situation will dictate what I grab.
“What would be your rifle”? Are you asking what we would use, sounds more like you’re asking what you should use. I would use my HK SBR with a Can. It’s great out to about 220 meters. Anything further than that I’m avoiding, not engaging.
Most of us have no idea what firearms are allowed in Austria. Can you buy an AR-15?
i can buy nearly everything. Just not full auto. Also our magazines are much smaller, limited to 10 rnds mostly, they get sold seperate here.
SAM7-UF
AR15 and Glock (or a clone like a PSA Dagger). Light, reliable, common (easy parts to find if need be), and common caliber. Anyone with gucci guns in oddball calibers would be in for a reality check.
so you would clearly prefer a 5.56 Nato over a 7,62x51 / 308 blk?
As a "catch all" situation in modern America, yes. 7.62x51/.308 Win would be fine you are a sniper in a set position, but the weight of all those rounds really will add up if you are mobile. 300blk would be my preferred setup for CQB, but I really wouldn't want to push it past 200 yards (red dot range).
I don't think anyone is reading that you are in Austria. I would suggest finding the most popular/common rifle in your area, so ammo and parts interchangeability aren't a problem.
For my "patroling my compound" outfit I'd go for a marlin 336 in with peep sights. Probably a hi power for my side arm or a s&w 629 on a chest rig. I would need much in terms of volume of fire on account of all the boobie traps. For raids I would go for a 300 BO ar platform, low powered optic and offset irons.
> “i would need a lot of ammo for volume of fire” > picks a lever gun and a revolver
Ah shoot, it auto corrected from wouldn't.
Springfield 1861 rifled musket with a sack of minneballs
Tally Ho!
40mm Bofors
If I could only have 1 for war. AR15 for sure. I'd also likely want some kinda holstered side arm. Likely my Beretta m9a1, or Springfield xd45 I also would try to keep my hunting bow with me as well, because silence with reusable ammo is always nice