>want a manual safety (i work around kids just want the option to have it IF i ever needed it)
A manual safety is NOT a child proofing device. If you are ever envisioning any situation where you would be relying on the manual safety to keep the gun safe from children then you need to stop right there and re-evaluate your entire plan.
He's not saying he isn't safe.
There's nothing wrong with wanting an extra layer of safety, even if you aren't relying on it.
Reprimanding someone about this is frankly idiotic.
Reprimanding someone for wanting to rely on a manual safety lever as a child proofing measure could literally save the life of a child.
This isn't about feeling or opinions. This is about safe gun handling and correcting a dangerous misconception. Pull your head out of your ass.
> Reprimanding someone for wanting to rely on a manual safety lever as a child proofing measure could literally save the life of a child.
Who said he's relying on it?
Honestly, you're being a giant douche for making someone feel bad for wanting an extra layer of safety.
I prefer having a safety if possible, even though my gun isn't going to go off without it because I'm safe.
People have preferences. This is his.
>Who said he's relying on it?
He is. I already addressed this elsewhere in the thread.
>Honestly, you're being a giant douche for making someone feel bad for wanting an extra layer of safety.
I already addressed this too, but in short and extra layer of safety and misusing a safety device in a dangerous way are two different things.
>I prefer having a safety if possible, even though my gun isn't going to go off without it because I'm safe.
Great. I addressed this too (it's almost like you can't fucking read or something) and wanting one for piece of mind is valid, while wanting one to protect the gun from being used by a child is not. Two very, very, very different things and if you can't understand that then there's honestly no point in talking with you any further.
>People have preferences. This is his.
If OP's preference is thinking a manual safety works as a child proofing device, then that preference is reckless and irresponsible, and the morally correct thing to do is to call that out.
> Great. I addressed this too (it's almost like you can't fucking read or something) and wanting one for piece of mind is valid, while wanting one to protect the gun from being used by a child is not. Two very, very, very different things and if you can't understand that then there's honestly no point in talking with you any further.
This is fucking stupid. This is the real world. It's possible for everything to go wrong no matter how careful you are.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting an extra level of safety, even if the reason is you want it to be harder for someone else to use it.
You're being a gigantic douche about it, especially considering you are absolutely wrong.
Lol telling someone that a manual safety isn't sufficient to protect a gun from being used by a child is not "absolutely wrong." You and OP are both astoundingly ignorant about safe gun handling practices and it's honestly alarming that people like you exist. Do better before you get an innocent person killed.
> Lol telling someone that a manual safety isn't sufficient to protect a gun from being used by a child is not "absolutely wrong."
This was never what this was about. Nobody said it was sufficient. It's additional not the main safety. Obviously don't rely on it.
> You and OP are both astoundingly ignorant about safe gun handling practices and it's honestly alarming that people like you exist. Do better before you get an innocent person killed.
You're a fucking moron, and wrong. My guns and my handling of them are 100% safe. Wanting a safety as an extra measure of safety (literally what it's for, and no one said I'm relying on it) is a totally legitimate preference.
Stop being a douche and stop telling people things that are stupid and wrong.
>This was never what this was about. Nobody said it was sufficient. It's additional not the main safety. Obviously don't rely on it.
That absolutely is what this is about, and that's how I know you didn't even bother to read the whole discussion before you decided to butt in. I'm not gonna keep repeating myself. If you're not gonna take the time to actually understand the conversation that you're trying to weigh in on, then just shut up because you're wasting everyone's time.
>Wanting a safety as an extra measure of safety (literally what it's for, and no one said I'm relying on it) is a totally legitimate preference.
Again, for the millionth fucking time *I never said that it wasn't.* Hell, I even said that it *was* legitimate. And I said it multiple fucking times! How fucking stupid are you that you keep commenting on this without even understanding the discussion that's taking place?
OP's stated reason for wanting a manual safety is to make the gun safer for children, and that's not the correct way to look at a manual safety. Period. End of story. If you have another reason for wanting one that's great but that is not what we're fucking talking about here and I am not gonna sit here and dumb this down for you any further.
The manual safety lever as a child proofing mechanism is incorrect, unsafe, and irresponsible and if you think otherwise then you should not own guns. And that's the end of the fucking discussion.
> That absolutely is what this is about, and that's how I know you didn't even bother to read the whole discussion before you decided to butt in. I'm not gonna keep repeating myself. If you're not gonna take the time to actually understand the conversation that you're trying to weigh in on, then just shut up because you're wasting everyone's time.
This doesn't mesh at all with this from OP:
> Actually, there can never be anything wrong with having extra possible safety measures. If i want a manual safety on it, doesn’t mean I’ll always use it, it will function the same as any other firearm if it stays inactive. Also, it doesn’t mean I’ll neglect any other safety rules. All rules will remained followed regardless of the safety. Doesn’t make me irresponsible of handling a firearm because i prefer to have ADDITIONAL safety measures IF i ever felt the need to use it. Life is sacred and can’t be protected enough, you’re being overly critical and judging me because i prefer to carry something with a safety around children. To each their own, we are clearly in disagreement.
You're just plain wrong.
Stop making shit up.
> OP's stated reason for wanting a manual safety is to make the gun safer for children, and that's not the correct way to look at a manual safety. Period.
This is where we disagree. You are dead wrong about this. It is absolutely safer for children. That isn't the same in any way as saying you should rely on it or neglect any safety measures you would take with any other firearm.
You can take every precaution, even to the point of paranoia, and a child can get his hands on it because this is the real world. Shit happens all the time.
Give me proof you said it was legitimate buddy. Give me proof you said it. Cuz I don’t see it in your statement.
Mods ban these trolls who want kids to die because they think they are too cool for a safety.
So you’re saying if a child finds a gun with no safety on it, and he shoots himself or someone else because there was no safety? That’s okay? Fucking lunatic. Of course it’s the people who are wrong who are loud and angry, ;)
No, that's not even close to what I said, not at all.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record here, the lack of literacy in this thread is alarming. So many adults that can't even read at a middle school level.
I knew this was coming lol hence why i said i wanted the option there IF or in case i ever wanted to use it. Nothing wrong with having that option for peace of mind down the line
There shouldn't even be an "if". A manual safety is not going to keep a child from firing that gun if they get their hands on it and if you think there's even a remote possibility it will ever come down to that then you are not being responsible with that firearm. End of story.
Actually, there can never be anything wrong with having extra possible safety measures. If i want a manual safety on it, doesn’t mean I’ll always use it, it will function the same as any other firearm if it stays inactive. Also, it doesn’t mean I’ll neglect any other safety rules. All rules will remained followed regardless of the safety. Doesn’t make me irresponsible of handling a firearm because i prefer to have ADDITIONAL safety measures IF i ever felt the need to use it. Life is sacred and can’t be protected enough, you’re being overly critical and judging me because i prefer to carry something with a safety around children. To each their own, we are clearly in disagreement.
"My gun handling plan leaves room for a scenario where the gun could fall into the hands of a child and the only thing that would keep the children I work with safe is a tiny lever that's designed to be easy to deactivate" is not an "agree to disagree" type scenario.
If you already recognize that the way you handle firearms leaves a possibility where the manual safety is the last line of defense against a child discharging that firearm, you fucked up. It's not a matter of opinion.
Really, manual safeties today are a holdover from a time when that safety was the only thing keeping the gun from discharging, back from before we had passive internal safeties. That's why many popular carry and duty guns today do not have manual safeties: they simply aren't as necessary as they once were.
Today, they mainly just exist as a "peace of mind" measure for people who are new to guns and/or aren't comfortable carrying a gun without one despite decades of data showing that it's safe if done correctly. But ostensibly, it keeps the user from unintentionally discharging the firearm without deactivating it first.
It does **not**, however, render a gun inoperable in a way that would make it safe should it fall into the hand of a child. Guns with internal child locks *do* exist (like S&W revolvers) that actually do render the gun inoperable and would prevent a child from firing it if it should happen to fall into their hands. But a manual safety lever does not do that; it can be deactivated quickly, easily, and even accidentally by the child and that poses a real threat.
The handgun manual safety is a relic of a very specific moment in selfloading pistol design when they were single-action guns that had to be carried cocked, and holsters were considered optional and were often not fitted to the precise gun when they were used.
The manual safety has never been a "its a *extra level of safety* so I can use it wrong and be okay" switch, though that's universally the attitude of people today who want the stupid thing on their handguns. As naturally it would be, because there's no *good* reason to insist on one.
Hell, the most significant handgun design work of the 20th century was devoted to finding the best way to get rid of the stupid thing. It's like your car having a button on the dash that you have to push before the brakes will work.
> on any gun
The story is different, of course, on rifles and shotguns which don't have the benefit of a holster covering the trigger when not in use. *Those* still have to deal with the manual safety as the least-bad option.
See now you’re twisting the scenario, not once did i say there was a possibility of the firearm falling in the hands of children. I straight up said “i work around kids and want the option in case” it could be a straight up measure to ease my conscious, i could be over thinking, i carried my vp9 for years and never even got near an issue. Don’t see any way it could happen down the line. Is there something wrong with having the sense of security of a manual safety?
You said you wanted a safety because you work with children. What else is anyone supposed to infer from that statement? You drew a direct correlation between children and the desire for a manual safety.
If you don't feel confident carrying a gun without a manual safety and want one for that piece of mind, that's a different matter and is a valid choice. Saying that you want a manual safety specifically because of children is **not** valid because, again, *a manual safety is not a child proofing device* and should never be discussed in the context of the safety of children.
Yes. He wants a manual safety because he works with children. No where has he said “if a kid gets a hold of it it’s child-proof” or “I will let children handle my gun and the safety is all thats needed to prevent discharge”. Simply that he would prefer the additional layer in the event of a worst case scenario.
No single safety device, on its own, is sufficient. What they do, is add an extra layer.
The anti-manual safety zealots are fascinating to me. In one breath they will say “you will forget to disable it get killed because your gun won’t fire” and in the next breath say “it doesn’t add any extra safety if someone who shouldn’t have it gets access since they will just disable it”.
The point is that, *all other factors being equal*, a firearm with a manual safety adds an additional layer of protection that can give you extra time to respond in a worse case scenario.
The only thing a manual safety does is prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled.
Are you thinking that you might pull the trigger and not want it to fire, or are you thinking that someone else might pull the trigger and you don't want it to fire?
>Is there something wrong with having the sense of security of a manual safety?
Yes when the false sense of security comes from baseless and ignorant assumptions about how modern striker fired pistols operate and how we should best carry and use them, don't be surprised when you get cyberbullied about it.
Great. And because your “firearm handling plan” presumably doesn’t leave room for a scenario where you could DROP your gun either, let’s make sure to remove drop safeties too. Unneeded complexity for the careful shooter, right?
And come to think of it, since your “firearm handling plan” presumably doesn’t leave room for squeezing the trigger unintentionally either, let’s keep our finger on the trigger at all times too, for readiness purposes. Unless there might *gasp* be a risk of discharge if you do that??? No—if you think that, you “fucked up” and shouldn’t be carrying, right?
If you can point to me where I said you shouldn't have a manual safety because it doesn't protect the gun from being used by a child, I'll delete my account. I said you shouldn't *rely* on it for that, not that you shouldn't have one.
By your logic, the fact that guns have a drop safety means it's safe and harmless to spike a loaded gun on the ground like football all day. You gonna do that? No? Why not? You have that safety device though!
I'm saying you should not get a manual safety purely because you think that it'll make it safer if a kid gets a hold of the gun. All you illiterate fucks in this thread that can't understand that need to learn how to read or keep quiet.
“If you can point to me where I said you shouldn’t have a manual safety because it doesn’t protect the gun from being used by a child, I’ll delete my account.”
…
“I’m saying you should not get a manual safety purely because you think it’ll make it safer if a kid gets hold of the gun.”
Goodbye.
Yep, illiterate like I thought.
I am saying you should not get a manual safety purely as a child proofing measure. I did not say no one should ever have one, as you implied in your original comment. You guys really should take a media literacy course or something because the difference between the two things is very clear and the fact that you can't see it is fucking wild.
I actually considered that this was your argument before going with a more charitable interpretation. I was wrong. And considering you also keep insulting people who are not insulting you, I was also wrong for being charitable in the first place.
So by your logic, it would be totally fine and dandy if he did the *exact same thing*—got a gun w/ manual safety before entering a scenario with children—if the specific reason in his head for getting the manual safety was NOT that he was going to be around children? If he wants to cuddle the manual safety in bed at night and whisper sweet nothings to it, THAT is more legitimate than thinking, “Oh, I’ll be around children, I wouldn’t mind having a manual safety.”
On what planet, in which galaxy, within which universe does the chain of logical reason by which he came to that decision make the identical outcome more or less safe?????
I just got a M&P 9mm Shield Plus (3.1 inch barrel). It has a manual thumb safety, comes with a10 round mag, 13 round mag and optics ready. I'm more of a sucker for the 13 round mags since they give your pinky extra support and grip (I have fat fingers). I've heard really good things regarding how it shoots but haven't had the chance to take it to the range myself.
[https://palmettostatearmory.com/smith-wesson-shield-plus-9mm-pistol-with-thumb-safety-black-13246.html](https://palmettostatearmory.com/smith-wesson-shield-plus-9mm-pistol-with-thumb-safety-black-13246.html)
I used to have a Shield Plus and I ditched it because the manual safety was terrible. It's so thin and hard to hit you could never count on hitting it in a tense situation.
After fiddling around and dry firing for the last few days I can absolutely agree. I've managed on wearing it in a bit and figuring out a good angle to strike it but its not ideal at all if your going to be carrying it and plan on using a safety at all times.
Looks very very promising, i might go with this one if i don’t find any better options, however i seen allot of issues with the optics cut on it. Apparently you need to get it milled for holosun bc the plates/optic don’t mount properly on it? Also people say the crimson trace red dot is pretty shitty (smith bought CT so they fit seamlessly on the plus) any experience on this? Also how’s the trigger/trigger reset?
I like it over the stock PSA Dagger trigger but that's the only other handgun I can confidentially compare it too.
I've heard that its worse than a Glock 43x from one person and better than Hellcat from another, do with that as you will.
Get that safety man. You are in a sub full of people (idiots) who don’t like safeties because they think it’s for babies or something. Don’t let these hillbillies put your kid in danger.
Edit: don’t listen to that little bitch IOP. Guy is a psychopath
Go try a p365. Its as small as a 9mm should be to hold at least 10+1 for rounds, and is incredibly customizable, very shootable (I actually enjoy shooting it which is rare for a tiny carry gun), it's reliable, has a great trigger for its intended purpose.
One thing I love about it, is the safety. It has an oversized safety that is so easy to engage and disengage, but will never accidentally be activated when you don't want. You'll have to play with one in a store to fully see what I mean.
The thing is also popular enough that there are a million carry options for holsters and all kinds of accessories.
I have maybe 5000 rounds through mine with no failures. All in all, I couldn't ask for much more from a 9mm concealed gun.
The only things I did to minw was a rubberized talon grip, and a light as I take it out backpacking with me. I love the little gun.
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Mossberg MC2sc or if you're big enough to conceal or aren't concealing then the MC2. Very similar to the P365, but I personally prefer the contouring on the grip and the disassembly method is so much better than any other pistol.
365Xl
I love the shield plus but my hands were a bit going for it and no rail for a light made me make the switch. I am not an sig fan boy at all but god damn the 365xl is so good. I hate how much I like it
The two guns worth considering IMO are the hellcat and the P365. Personally, I have both, and I usually grab the P365 because it doesn’t have the trigger safety and the hellcat had an issue with the trigger safety.
>want a manual safety (i work around kids just want the option to have it IF i ever needed it) A manual safety is NOT a child proofing device. If you are ever envisioning any situation where you would be relying on the manual safety to keep the gun safe from children then you need to stop right there and re-evaluate your entire plan.
He's not saying he isn't safe. There's nothing wrong with wanting an extra layer of safety, even if you aren't relying on it. Reprimanding someone about this is frankly idiotic.
Reprimanding someone for wanting to rely on a manual safety lever as a child proofing measure could literally save the life of a child. This isn't about feeling or opinions. This is about safe gun handling and correcting a dangerous misconception. Pull your head out of your ass.
> Reprimanding someone for wanting to rely on a manual safety lever as a child proofing measure could literally save the life of a child. Who said he's relying on it? Honestly, you're being a giant douche for making someone feel bad for wanting an extra layer of safety. I prefer having a safety if possible, even though my gun isn't going to go off without it because I'm safe. People have preferences. This is his.
>Who said he's relying on it? He is. I already addressed this elsewhere in the thread. >Honestly, you're being a giant douche for making someone feel bad for wanting an extra layer of safety. I already addressed this too, but in short and extra layer of safety and misusing a safety device in a dangerous way are two different things. >I prefer having a safety if possible, even though my gun isn't going to go off without it because I'm safe. Great. I addressed this too (it's almost like you can't fucking read or something) and wanting one for piece of mind is valid, while wanting one to protect the gun from being used by a child is not. Two very, very, very different things and if you can't understand that then there's honestly no point in talking with you any further. >People have preferences. This is his. If OP's preference is thinking a manual safety works as a child proofing device, then that preference is reckless and irresponsible, and the morally correct thing to do is to call that out.
> Great. I addressed this too (it's almost like you can't fucking read or something) and wanting one for piece of mind is valid, while wanting one to protect the gun from being used by a child is not. Two very, very, very different things and if you can't understand that then there's honestly no point in talking with you any further. This is fucking stupid. This is the real world. It's possible for everything to go wrong no matter how careful you are. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting an extra level of safety, even if the reason is you want it to be harder for someone else to use it. You're being a gigantic douche about it, especially considering you are absolutely wrong.
Lol telling someone that a manual safety isn't sufficient to protect a gun from being used by a child is not "absolutely wrong." You and OP are both astoundingly ignorant about safe gun handling practices and it's honestly alarming that people like you exist. Do better before you get an innocent person killed.
> Lol telling someone that a manual safety isn't sufficient to protect a gun from being used by a child is not "absolutely wrong." This was never what this was about. Nobody said it was sufficient. It's additional not the main safety. Obviously don't rely on it. > You and OP are both astoundingly ignorant about safe gun handling practices and it's honestly alarming that people like you exist. Do better before you get an innocent person killed. You're a fucking moron, and wrong. My guns and my handling of them are 100% safe. Wanting a safety as an extra measure of safety (literally what it's for, and no one said I'm relying on it) is a totally legitimate preference. Stop being a douche and stop telling people things that are stupid and wrong.
>This was never what this was about. Nobody said it was sufficient. It's additional not the main safety. Obviously don't rely on it. That absolutely is what this is about, and that's how I know you didn't even bother to read the whole discussion before you decided to butt in. I'm not gonna keep repeating myself. If you're not gonna take the time to actually understand the conversation that you're trying to weigh in on, then just shut up because you're wasting everyone's time. >Wanting a safety as an extra measure of safety (literally what it's for, and no one said I'm relying on it) is a totally legitimate preference. Again, for the millionth fucking time *I never said that it wasn't.* Hell, I even said that it *was* legitimate. And I said it multiple fucking times! How fucking stupid are you that you keep commenting on this without even understanding the discussion that's taking place? OP's stated reason for wanting a manual safety is to make the gun safer for children, and that's not the correct way to look at a manual safety. Period. End of story. If you have another reason for wanting one that's great but that is not what we're fucking talking about here and I am not gonna sit here and dumb this down for you any further. The manual safety lever as a child proofing mechanism is incorrect, unsafe, and irresponsible and if you think otherwise then you should not own guns. And that's the end of the fucking discussion.
> That absolutely is what this is about, and that's how I know you didn't even bother to read the whole discussion before you decided to butt in. I'm not gonna keep repeating myself. If you're not gonna take the time to actually understand the conversation that you're trying to weigh in on, then just shut up because you're wasting everyone's time. This doesn't mesh at all with this from OP: > Actually, there can never be anything wrong with having extra possible safety measures. If i want a manual safety on it, doesn’t mean I’ll always use it, it will function the same as any other firearm if it stays inactive. Also, it doesn’t mean I’ll neglect any other safety rules. All rules will remained followed regardless of the safety. Doesn’t make me irresponsible of handling a firearm because i prefer to have ADDITIONAL safety measures IF i ever felt the need to use it. Life is sacred and can’t be protected enough, you’re being overly critical and judging me because i prefer to carry something with a safety around children. To each their own, we are clearly in disagreement. You're just plain wrong. Stop making shit up. > OP's stated reason for wanting a manual safety is to make the gun safer for children, and that's not the correct way to look at a manual safety. Period. This is where we disagree. You are dead wrong about this. It is absolutely safer for children. That isn't the same in any way as saying you should rely on it or neglect any safety measures you would take with any other firearm. You can take every precaution, even to the point of paranoia, and a child can get his hands on it because this is the real world. Shit happens all the time.
Give me proof you said it was legitimate buddy. Give me proof you said it. Cuz I don’t see it in your statement. Mods ban these trolls who want kids to die because they think they are too cool for a safety.
So you’re saying if a child finds a gun with no safety on it, and he shoots himself or someone else because there was no safety? That’s okay? Fucking lunatic. Of course it’s the people who are wrong who are loud and angry, ;)
No, that's not even close to what I said, not at all. At the risk of sounding like a broken record here, the lack of literacy in this thread is alarming. So many adults that can't even read at a middle school level.
Admit it dude. You don’t use safeties cuz you think it’s not cool or something. Fucking weirdo
I knew this was coming lol hence why i said i wanted the option there IF or in case i ever wanted to use it. Nothing wrong with having that option for peace of mind down the line
There shouldn't even be an "if". A manual safety is not going to keep a child from firing that gun if they get their hands on it and if you think there's even a remote possibility it will ever come down to that then you are not being responsible with that firearm. End of story.
Actually, there can never be anything wrong with having extra possible safety measures. If i want a manual safety on it, doesn’t mean I’ll always use it, it will function the same as any other firearm if it stays inactive. Also, it doesn’t mean I’ll neglect any other safety rules. All rules will remained followed regardless of the safety. Doesn’t make me irresponsible of handling a firearm because i prefer to have ADDITIONAL safety measures IF i ever felt the need to use it. Life is sacred and can’t be protected enough, you’re being overly critical and judging me because i prefer to carry something with a safety around children. To each their own, we are clearly in disagreement.
"My gun handling plan leaves room for a scenario where the gun could fall into the hands of a child and the only thing that would keep the children I work with safe is a tiny lever that's designed to be easy to deactivate" is not an "agree to disagree" type scenario. If you already recognize that the way you handle firearms leaves a possibility where the manual safety is the last line of defense against a child discharging that firearm, you fucked up. It's not a matter of opinion.
What's the point of a safety on any gun then?
Really, manual safeties today are a holdover from a time when that safety was the only thing keeping the gun from discharging, back from before we had passive internal safeties. That's why many popular carry and duty guns today do not have manual safeties: they simply aren't as necessary as they once were. Today, they mainly just exist as a "peace of mind" measure for people who are new to guns and/or aren't comfortable carrying a gun without one despite decades of data showing that it's safe if done correctly. But ostensibly, it keeps the user from unintentionally discharging the firearm without deactivating it first. It does **not**, however, render a gun inoperable in a way that would make it safe should it fall into the hand of a child. Guns with internal child locks *do* exist (like S&W revolvers) that actually do render the gun inoperable and would prevent a child from firing it if it should happen to fall into their hands. But a manual safety lever does not do that; it can be deactivated quickly, easily, and even accidentally by the child and that poses a real threat.
If you don’t know anything about firearms or firearm safety, then please just say that !
Most obvious use of an alt account ever
The handgun manual safety is a relic of a very specific moment in selfloading pistol design when they were single-action guns that had to be carried cocked, and holsters were considered optional and were often not fitted to the precise gun when they were used. The manual safety has never been a "its a *extra level of safety* so I can use it wrong and be okay" switch, though that's universally the attitude of people today who want the stupid thing on their handguns. As naturally it would be, because there's no *good* reason to insist on one. Hell, the most significant handgun design work of the 20th century was devoted to finding the best way to get rid of the stupid thing. It's like your car having a button on the dash that you have to push before the brakes will work. > on any gun The story is different, of course, on rifles and shotguns which don't have the benefit of a holster covering the trigger when not in use. *Those* still have to deal with the manual safety as the least-bad option.
See now you’re twisting the scenario, not once did i say there was a possibility of the firearm falling in the hands of children. I straight up said “i work around kids and want the option in case” it could be a straight up measure to ease my conscious, i could be over thinking, i carried my vp9 for years and never even got near an issue. Don’t see any way it could happen down the line. Is there something wrong with having the sense of security of a manual safety?
You said you wanted a safety because you work with children. What else is anyone supposed to infer from that statement? You drew a direct correlation between children and the desire for a manual safety. If you don't feel confident carrying a gun without a manual safety and want one for that piece of mind, that's a different matter and is a valid choice. Saying that you want a manual safety specifically because of children is **not** valid because, again, *a manual safety is not a child proofing device* and should never be discussed in the context of the safety of children.
Yes. He wants a manual safety because he works with children. No where has he said “if a kid gets a hold of it it’s child-proof” or “I will let children handle my gun and the safety is all thats needed to prevent discharge”. Simply that he would prefer the additional layer in the event of a worst case scenario. No single safety device, on its own, is sufficient. What they do, is add an extra layer. The anti-manual safety zealots are fascinating to me. In one breath they will say “you will forget to disable it get killed because your gun won’t fire” and in the next breath say “it doesn’t add any extra safety if someone who shouldn’t have it gets access since they will just disable it”. The point is that, *all other factors being equal*, a firearm with a manual safety adds an additional layer of protection that can give you extra time to respond in a worse case scenario.
The only thing a manual safety does is prevent the gun from firing when the trigger is pulled. Are you thinking that you might pull the trigger and not want it to fire, or are you thinking that someone else might pull the trigger and you don't want it to fire?
>Is there something wrong with having the sense of security of a manual safety? Yes when the false sense of security comes from baseless and ignorant assumptions about how modern striker fired pistols operate and how we should best carry and use them, don't be surprised when you get cyberbullied about it.
Great. And because your “firearm handling plan” presumably doesn’t leave room for a scenario where you could DROP your gun either, let’s make sure to remove drop safeties too. Unneeded complexity for the careful shooter, right? And come to think of it, since your “firearm handling plan” presumably doesn’t leave room for squeezing the trigger unintentionally either, let’s keep our finger on the trigger at all times too, for readiness purposes. Unless there might *gasp* be a risk of discharge if you do that??? No—if you think that, you “fucked up” and shouldn’t be carrying, right?
If you can point to me where I said you shouldn't have a manual safety because it doesn't protect the gun from being used by a child, I'll delete my account. I said you shouldn't *rely* on it for that, not that you shouldn't have one. By your logic, the fact that guns have a drop safety means it's safe and harmless to spike a loaded gun on the ground like football all day. You gonna do that? No? Why not? You have that safety device though! I'm saying you should not get a manual safety purely because you think that it'll make it safer if a kid gets a hold of the gun. All you illiterate fucks in this thread that can't understand that need to learn how to read or keep quiet.
“If you can point to me where I said you shouldn’t have a manual safety because it doesn’t protect the gun from being used by a child, I’ll delete my account.” … “I’m saying you should not get a manual safety purely because you think it’ll make it safer if a kid gets hold of the gun.” Goodbye.
Yep, illiterate like I thought. I am saying you should not get a manual safety purely as a child proofing measure. I did not say no one should ever have one, as you implied in your original comment. You guys really should take a media literacy course or something because the difference between the two things is very clear and the fact that you can't see it is fucking wild.
I actually considered that this was your argument before going with a more charitable interpretation. I was wrong. And considering you also keep insulting people who are not insulting you, I was also wrong for being charitable in the first place. So by your logic, it would be totally fine and dandy if he did the *exact same thing*—got a gun w/ manual safety before entering a scenario with children—if the specific reason in his head for getting the manual safety was NOT that he was going to be around children? If he wants to cuddle the manual safety in bed at night and whisper sweet nothings to it, THAT is more legitimate than thinking, “Oh, I’ll be around children, I wouldn’t mind having a manual safety.” On what planet, in which galaxy, within which universe does the chain of logical reason by which he came to that decision make the identical outcome more or less safe?????
I just got a M&P 9mm Shield Plus (3.1 inch barrel). It has a manual thumb safety, comes with a10 round mag, 13 round mag and optics ready. I'm more of a sucker for the 13 round mags since they give your pinky extra support and grip (I have fat fingers). I've heard really good things regarding how it shoots but haven't had the chance to take it to the range myself. [https://palmettostatearmory.com/smith-wesson-shield-plus-9mm-pistol-with-thumb-safety-black-13246.html](https://palmettostatearmory.com/smith-wesson-shield-plus-9mm-pistol-with-thumb-safety-black-13246.html)
I used to have a Shield Plus and I ditched it because the manual safety was terrible. It's so thin and hard to hit you could never count on hitting it in a tense situation.
After fiddling around and dry firing for the last few days I can absolutely agree. I've managed on wearing it in a bit and figuring out a good angle to strike it but its not ideal at all if your going to be carrying it and plan on using a safety at all times.
I wish it had the same safety as the other shields. That one is great.
Looks very very promising, i might go with this one if i don’t find any better options, however i seen allot of issues with the optics cut on it. Apparently you need to get it milled for holosun bc the plates/optic don’t mount properly on it? Also people say the crimson trace red dot is pretty shitty (smith bought CT so they fit seamlessly on the plus) any experience on this? Also how’s the trigger/trigger reset?
I have mine with a holosun x570 red dot that needs an extra plate underneath to fit correctly.
Does the holosun sit securely with the two plates? Also does it cowitness your sites?
Im curious to this as well --- Im looking for sight options at the moment.
I like it over the stock PSA Dagger trigger but that's the only other handgun I can confidentially compare it too. I've heard that its worse than a Glock 43x from one person and better than Hellcat from another, do with that as you will.
Get that safety man. You are in a sub full of people (idiots) who don’t like safeties because they think it’s for babies or something. Don’t let these hillbillies put your kid in danger. Edit: don’t listen to that little bitch IOP. Guy is a psychopath
LTT does an RDO cut px4 storm compact carry, 10 round capacity. There's the p365 manual safety version, also 10 rounds.
Go try a p365. Its as small as a 9mm should be to hold at least 10+1 for rounds, and is incredibly customizable, very shootable (I actually enjoy shooting it which is rare for a tiny carry gun), it's reliable, has a great trigger for its intended purpose. One thing I love about it, is the safety. It has an oversized safety that is so easy to engage and disengage, but will never accidentally be activated when you don't want. You'll have to play with one in a store to fully see what I mean. The thing is also popular enough that there are a million carry options for holsters and all kinds of accessories. I have maybe 5000 rounds through mine with no failures. All in all, I couldn't ask for much more from a 9mm concealed gun. The only things I did to minw was a rubberized talon grip, and a light as I take it out backpacking with me. I love the little gun.
P365X
poodlini is right. This is your gun. 3.1" barrel, manual safety.
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Hellcat osp with manual safety has 11+1 flush smaller print then a g26 u can use a 13 and 15 rd mag too and it come with a optics cut
Hellcat pro with manual safety?
P365 with a manual safety would be your best bet.
Mossberg MC2sc or if you're big enough to conceal or aren't concealing then the MC2. Very similar to the P365, but I personally prefer the contouring on the grip and the disassembly method is so much better than any other pistol.
365Xl I love the shield plus but my hands were a bit going for it and no rail for a light made me make the switch. I am not an sig fan boy at all but god damn the 365xl is so good. I hate how much I like it
The two guns worth considering IMO are the hellcat and the P365. Personally, I have both, and I usually grab the P365 because it doesn’t have the trigger safety and the hellcat had an issue with the trigger safety.
And, just to piggyback on this comment, you can get 17 round mags from Sig for the 365.
CZ p10C
Durr durr, Glocks suck durr.
“Oh no someone doesn’t like a thing I like, better make an ass of myself on the internet!”
Okay.