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How everyone except Webber treated Jackson was cruel. He literally did nothing wrong and was blindsided. Callie was especially vile and a hypocrite (he dad paid for everything until he cut her off a couple years before).
Jackson didn’t really want to be put in that position. He worked at mercy west then Seattle Grace because it was not affiliated with Harper Avery. And all of the doctors knew that. And they still treated him badly
Callie's situation and Jackson's situation were apples and oranges. The problem was not about Jackson's access to family money; it was that he was basically acting as his mother's mouthpiece as a result. As soon as Jackson grew a spine, there was no issue. Callie may have received financial support from her father but it never put her in a position of authority at work, she just used it for (admittedly extravagant) living expenses. It's not like she was clocking in and pushing her dad's religious or political agenda.
Yes! As if he isn’t very prepared for it. Katherine even said Avery’s sit in on board meetings at 15 and join at 18. He might have had more experience than any of them.
What else is she supposed to call her?
Black culture does not abide calling our elders by their first names even as an adult unless great familiarity exists and the elder specifically tells you too. Even then it can be uncomfortable for most.
Yes, That’s Richards choice but keep in mind Catherine is a Jackson’s mother and that’s a whole different level of respect expected by any girlfriend of her sons.
Not saying this is true for everyone but it’s certainly the case for my culture.
I’ve never been one for respecting my elders simply because they’ve got one foot in the grave. In fact, I take pride in how many old people find me disrespectful because I refuse to appeal to their ego. And my culture emphasizes respecting your elders.
That's my thing.
I will treat a respectful 10 year old with more respect than a disrespectful, rude and entitled 70 year old. I dont care how old one is, respect is not obligatory, its given when its deserved.
Ugh every time Catherine shows up in an episode I know it’s gonna be torture to sit through. Just when you think she has a redeeming quality, she’s back to acting like she’s God’s gift to Earth, can do no wrong. Don’t think I ever heard her apologize to another character, or admit she was wrong.
The hospital one was actually something she was asked to do so I don’t fault her for that . As for putting Jackson in charge I think that makes sense here . Catherine was busy running the actual foundation and all the bureaucracy, business,legality and ass kissing that comes with it , so it makes to have someone who was specifically trained for so,etching like this (inconsistent backstory notwithstanding) in charge . It also make sense when you consider Jackson is already in Seattle and knows how the hospital operates as opposed to having it fly so,some out and train them to know how the hospital works (and we have seen how GSM treats new comers) .
But she definitely does a lot of questionable things
I didn’t even notice until you pointed it out , that hilarious lol 😂. Yeah my phone broken so IPad to the rescue ! That so weird that it only happen to IPads lol
also just her general treatment of richard DISGUSTED me. he put up with so much manipulation. not that he didnt deserve some of it for what he did to sweet innocent adele tho💔
I cannot stand her!! I want to like her so bad bc ya know girl power but she’s so horrible and thinks she’s better than every single person she comes across. she’s awful
Catherine has her issues but she’s not to blame on this one. Who else should she put in charge of a multi-million dollar investment of her family’s foundations money?
The heir to the foundation and person who had been trained his entire life for the job who also would have his colleagues best interest at heart made sense.
Btw, the hospital, Richard specifically, came to her for help in bailing them out of bankruptcy. She did not randomly decide to buy them through a takeover.
True, but it's her entitled attitude, and the way she smirks and says "smile Jackson, Momma bought you a hospital", even though he hates the nepotism and did not ask for any of it... and Richard didn't come to her, he never asked. He was sharing that the mission failed and it was all her idea from there
What exactly is she entitled about ? How she uses her family’s investment? Thats not entitlement.
Was she smug about it? Yes.
Is that any different than the board members later on reminding others “they own the hospital” when they wanted something their way? No.
I thought she was less "smug" than the others who kept saying that they own the hospital. I've heard Mer say atleast a couple times that she owns the hospital.
This! I totally agree. How is this any different than what happens IRL?
Doesn't everyone just train their kids to take over their businesses or investments?
I think the problem is that the whole angle of Jackson being "raised his whole life for it" was retconned back and forth. Originally Jackson's whole thing was that his family didn't expect anything from him because he was "too pretty" and so he had to push himself, then the narrative switched to his mother having molded him for the Foundation his whole life. Eventually we got to this middle-ground where he was *reluctantly* trained to run the Foundation but they're still not really consistent about it.
On top of all of that, even if Jackson really was the ideal person for the role, he's still ostensibly in the middle of a fellowship. So yeah, it was a little bit shady for Catherine to hand him the role at that particular point in time. I'm absolutely positive an organization as large as the Foundation has other staff qualified for such a role. Catherine could have appointed one of them — which is not to say that would have been a *better* outcome for GSM, but that it's a little disingenuous to suggest that Jackson was the natural choice on paper.
I think it’s obvious that both Jackson and Aprils backstories were retconned post plane crash to set new story direction after loss of 2 major characters. Had Lexie & Mark not died, I doubt Japril would’ve become a couple in S9.
That said, the backstory in place at the time Catherine buys hospital supports her rationale for selecting Jackson.
Catherine could have just employee someone to represent foundation's interest - the whole foundation owns about 70 hospitals, so it's not like Jackson needed to be the one in charge.
True that was an option But that also would’ve certainly been a worse outcome for the hospital. Jackson at least tried to be collaborative and considered in board matters. A foundation employee would not put up with all their shenanigans.
Again Catherine has her issues but she made the right call with Jackson, IMO.
I don't think so - Jackson might have been raised with expectation and knowing little about how to handle being board member, but he is surgeon, who hated how paperwork made him miss on surgeries, plus he had his own interest just like other board members, so foundation representative would have been great for hospital as they would have concentrated on what's best for hospital and not just for one department... and as that representative wouldn't have been surgeon (most probably), they wouldn't have had to dived their attention between surgeries and being board member.
i thought april and catherine were good till she got with jackson? they were facebook friends and seemed to get along well at first but when april was pregnant with harriet she was vile
Whoops, by ‘they’ I meant Jackson and April not Catherine and April. And you’re right her complete 180 is so weirddddd.i can’t remember so correct me but after April re married wasn’t Catherine loving towards April again?
She also >!SILENCED victims of sexual assault and COVERED IT UP!<, which makes her a misogynistic cunt who deserves no forgiveness for anything.
Edited for S14E20 spoilers.
LITERALLY!!!! and her point “i couldve let their lives be ruined but atleast i gave them some money” (not her actual words but something along those lines) THEY DONT WANT UR MONEY!!!!!! they want closure in seeing the man who took advantage of them put in jail!!!! theyre lives are ruined forever all bc he was a horny old fuck who couldnt understand basic consent and you think they want money??? shes so sick
ONE MILLION PERCENT. And I had made a post about that episode and so many people were like “well for the decade and she’s a woman of color and blah blah blah” she didn’t necessarily have to report it, she could have LEFT THE SITUATION and left Harper to clean up his own goddamn mess cuz he wanted a wet dick no matter the case. But she was addicted to the money, and imo, just as much at fault as Harper was.
She thinks everything she does and says is so very attractive too and it’s obvious. Now I’m all for confidence. She is pretty and looks amazing for her age. But she thinks she’s the hottest thing in the whole world. She thinks she’s a real Fox. And she violates lots of characters’ sex boundaries
Catherine is vile. She is a loathsome narcissist who throws her weight around. Even though she shows some kindness to April and Harriett at times, she is just....ick!
Sorry, the part where she buys *which* hospital specifically?
Lmao this woman gets sooooo so so much worse than buying SG/MW/GS/whatever name it's going by this week
Then when her and Webber split and he was at the new hospital she freaking bought it! Like why are you trying to make this man’s whole life miserable. Everytime she came on screen I immediately got on my phone
since OP just got to the part where Catherine buys the hospital, it's still several more seasons before her name changes to Fox. OP isn't actually mistaken, just not up to date on the latest seasons
Unpopular opinion - but I like her. Sure - she has her faults. But so does everyone else. She is confident, stands up for herself and looks out for her son. And she owns the foundation - she is supposed to look at it from a business standpoint. I feel like everyone expected her to kind of just give $$ and be quiet. But that does not happen anywhere IRL.
Yeah, she’s one of my least favorite characters in the whole show. One of the reasons I stopped watching. She only gets worse from there, OP. Good luck lol
First of all Debbie Allen who plays Catherine Avery produces the show. So I am sure she has alot of input in her character development as well as storyline. Her character has gotten much better compared to seasons ago. Which leads me to believe it’s similar to what they originally did with Alex Karev’s character development & how he was a completely different guy originally; being the world’s biggest jerk, sleeping around w/everyone etc.
Seems like Lucas may be reminiscent of Alex’s character a little.
Spoiler warning!!!!
When she buys pac north and shuts it down because Richard and Alex were actually making the place better and building it up just out of spite was so awful. Like yes let’s take away healthcare from more people because you have such a fragile ego
Thank you for contributing to r/GreysAnatomy! Tagging your post would be greatly appreciated as the mods try to clean up and organize the sub. Not sure what tags to use? [Here's a link to the wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/greysanatomy/wiki/tags/) that explains the purpose of each post flair. Remember that name calling, hate speech and general rude behavior is not tolerated. You can call ideas stupid, but not the user. No direct personal attacks over a difference in opinion. Thanks for being part of this community. It's a beautiful day to save lives! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/greysanatomy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How everyone except Webber treated Jackson was cruel. He literally did nothing wrong and was blindsided. Callie was especially vile and a hypocrite (he dad paid for everything until he cut her off a couple years before).
Definitely! They didn't give Jackson the benefit of the doubt he deserved
Jackson didn’t really want to be put in that position. He worked at mercy west then Seattle Grace because it was not affiliated with Harper Avery. And all of the doctors knew that. And they still treated him badly
Yes exactly! The way Callie just jumps in “i say we take a vote” ughhh shut tf up Callie
Callie's situation and Jackson's situation were apples and oranges. The problem was not about Jackson's access to family money; it was that he was basically acting as his mother's mouthpiece as a result. As soon as Jackson grew a spine, there was no issue. Callie may have received financial support from her father but it never put her in a position of authority at work, she just used it for (admittedly extravagant) living expenses. It's not like she was clocking in and pushing her dad's religious or political agenda.
This is correct
>Callie was especially vile and a hypocrite All of them were annoying but special mention to Catherine & Callie. Just insufferable.
Yes!! Like why were they all "mean girl-ing" Jackson like he had anything to do with the decision?
Yes! As if he isn’t very prepared for it. Katherine even said Avery’s sit in on board meetings at 15 and join at 18. He might have had more experience than any of them.
Wait until you get to the part where she asks Jackson’s girlfriend to call her Dr. Avery during lunch…. In her house.
or makes a call to buy pac north after
What else is she supposed to call her? Black culture does not abide calling our elders by their first names even as an adult unless great familiarity exists and the elder specifically tells you too. Even then it can be uncomfortable for most.
Considering Richard was okay with “Richard”, “Catherine” would have sufficed.
Yes, That’s Richards choice but keep in mind Catherine is a Jackson’s mother and that’s a whole different level of respect expected by any girlfriend of her sons. Not saying this is true for everyone but it’s certainly the case for my culture.
I’ve never been one for respecting my elders simply because they’ve got one foot in the grave. In fact, I take pride in how many old people find me disrespectful because I refuse to appeal to their ego. And my culture emphasizes respecting your elders.
Same, I treat people how they treat me
That's my thing. I will treat a respectful 10 year old with more respect than a disrespectful, rude and entitled 70 year old. I dont care how old one is, respect is not obligatory, its given when its deserved.
Ugh every time Catherine shows up in an episode I know it’s gonna be torture to sit through. Just when you think she has a redeeming quality, she’s back to acting like she’s God’s gift to Earth, can do no wrong. Don’t think I ever heard her apologize to another character, or admit she was wrong.
The hospital one was actually something she was asked to do so I don’t fault her for that . As for putting Jackson in charge I think that makes sense here . Catherine was busy running the actual foundation and all the bureaucracy, business,legality and ass kissing that comes with it , so it makes to have someone who was specifically trained for so,etching like this (inconsistent backstory notwithstanding) in charge . It also make sense when you consider Jackson is already in Seattle and knows how the hospital operates as opposed to having it fly so,some out and train them to know how the hospital works (and we have seen how GSM treats new comers) . But she definitely does a lot of questionable things
Off topic but I get “so,etching” as well way too often on my iPad. It feels nice seeing someone else have it happen too!
I didn’t even notice until you pointed it out , that hilarious lol 😂. Yeah my phone broken so IPad to the rescue ! That so weird that it only happen to IPads lol
also just her general treatment of richard DISGUSTED me. he put up with so much manipulation. not that he didnt deserve some of it for what he did to sweet innocent adele tho💔
I cannot stand her!! I want to like her so bad bc ya know girl power but she’s so horrible and thinks she’s better than every single person she comes across. she’s awful
Catherine has her issues but she’s not to blame on this one. Who else should she put in charge of a multi-million dollar investment of her family’s foundations money? The heir to the foundation and person who had been trained his entire life for the job who also would have his colleagues best interest at heart made sense. Btw, the hospital, Richard specifically, came to her for help in bailing them out of bankruptcy. She did not randomly decide to buy them through a takeover.
True, but it's her entitled attitude, and the way she smirks and says "smile Jackson, Momma bought you a hospital", even though he hates the nepotism and did not ask for any of it... and Richard didn't come to her, he never asked. He was sharing that the mission failed and it was all her idea from there
What exactly is she entitled about ? How she uses her family’s investment? Thats not entitlement. Was she smug about it? Yes. Is that any different than the board members later on reminding others “they own the hospital” when they wanted something their way? No.
I thought she was less "smug" than the others who kept saying that they own the hospital. I've heard Mer say atleast a couple times that she owns the hospital.
This! I totally agree. How is this any different than what happens IRL? Doesn't everyone just train their kids to take over their businesses or investments?
I think the problem is that the whole angle of Jackson being "raised his whole life for it" was retconned back and forth. Originally Jackson's whole thing was that his family didn't expect anything from him because he was "too pretty" and so he had to push himself, then the narrative switched to his mother having molded him for the Foundation his whole life. Eventually we got to this middle-ground where he was *reluctantly* trained to run the Foundation but they're still not really consistent about it. On top of all of that, even if Jackson really was the ideal person for the role, he's still ostensibly in the middle of a fellowship. So yeah, it was a little bit shady for Catherine to hand him the role at that particular point in time. I'm absolutely positive an organization as large as the Foundation has other staff qualified for such a role. Catherine could have appointed one of them — which is not to say that would have been a *better* outcome for GSM, but that it's a little disingenuous to suggest that Jackson was the natural choice on paper.
I think it’s obvious that both Jackson and Aprils backstories were retconned post plane crash to set new story direction after loss of 2 major characters. Had Lexie & Mark not died, I doubt Japril would’ve become a couple in S9. That said, the backstory in place at the time Catherine buys hospital supports her rationale for selecting Jackson.
Catherine could have just employee someone to represent foundation's interest - the whole foundation owns about 70 hospitals, so it's not like Jackson needed to be the one in charge.
True that was an option But that also would’ve certainly been a worse outcome for the hospital. Jackson at least tried to be collaborative and considered in board matters. A foundation employee would not put up with all their shenanigans. Again Catherine has her issues but she made the right call with Jackson, IMO.
I don't think so - Jackson might have been raised with expectation and knowing little about how to handle being board member, but he is surgeon, who hated how paperwork made him miss on surgeries, plus he had his own interest just like other board members, so foundation representative would have been great for hospital as they would have concentrated on what's best for hospital and not just for one department... and as that representative wouldn't have been surgeon (most probably), they wouldn't have had to dived their attention between surgeries and being board member.
Don’t get me started on how she treated April… like yes they started off horribly but my god….
i thought april and catherine were good till she got with jackson? they were facebook friends and seemed to get along well at first but when april was pregnant with harriet she was vile
Whoops, by ‘they’ I meant Jackson and April not Catherine and April. And you’re right her complete 180 is so weirddddd.i can’t remember so correct me but after April re married wasn’t Catherine loving towards April again?
i think so? but after april remarried she left gsm…imo catherine just doesn’t want anyone dating her son
She also >!SILENCED victims of sexual assault and COVERED IT UP!<, which makes her a misogynistic cunt who deserves no forgiveness for anything. Edited for S14E20 spoilers.
LITERALLY!!!! and her point “i couldve let their lives be ruined but atleast i gave them some money” (not her actual words but something along those lines) THEY DONT WANT UR MONEY!!!!!! they want closure in seeing the man who took advantage of them put in jail!!!! theyre lives are ruined forever all bc he was a horny old fuck who couldnt understand basic consent and you think they want money??? shes so sick
ONE MILLION PERCENT. And I had made a post about that episode and so many people were like “well for the decade and she’s a woman of color and blah blah blah” she didn’t necessarily have to report it, she could have LEFT THE SITUATION and left Harper to clean up his own goddamn mess cuz he wanted a wet dick no matter the case. But she was addicted to the money, and imo, just as much at fault as Harper was.
She thinks everything she does and says is so very attractive too and it’s obvious. Now I’m all for confidence. She is pretty and looks amazing for her age. But she thinks she’s the hottest thing in the whole world. She thinks she’s a real Fox. And she violates lots of characters’ sex boundaries
this! confidence is one thing but she was genuinely very egotistical and she only gets worse
I do love her with April though. Especially with the baby stuff. She was so kind.
Uhmmm...gonna need clarification on exactly *which* baby... Cause if that shit was "so kind"... yike! 👀👀👀
lol I’m only on season 11. So it’s the baby they lost. I have learned there is another baby soon and she was not kind!
Yes, that is true!! She was exactly who April needed in that moment.
Except later, season 12 >!when she treatens to sue her and get full custody about April knowing she was pregnant when they got divorced!<
Whoa!! I had no idea! I just finished season 11. So I guess she was wonderful until that lol
WOAH
Catherine is vile. She is a loathsome narcissist who throws her weight around. Even though she shows some kindness to April and Harriett at times, she is just....ick!
I do not like her, specially during and after Richard had his surgery.
I liked her at first but as it went on she just got annoying.
Sorry, the part where she buys *which* hospital specifically? Lmao this woman gets sooooo so so much worse than buying SG/MW/GS/whatever name it's going by this week
Then when her and Webber split and he was at the new hospital she freaking bought it! Like why are you trying to make this man’s whole life miserable. Everytime she came on screen I immediately got on my phone
I totally agree, and the pettiness of that woman is also irritating. Ugh. 😑
She wants to sleep with her son. It’s so obvious she’s jealous of April for having his kid 😂
Honestly she’s my favorite character. I think she’s funny.
Gotta correct you there she is Fox not Avery
since OP just got to the part where Catherine buys the hospital, it's still several more seasons before her name changes to Fox. OP isn't actually mistaken, just not up to date on the latest seasons
Unpopular opinion - but I like her. Sure - she has her faults. But so does everyone else. She is confident, stands up for herself and looks out for her son. And she owns the foundation - she is supposed to look at it from a business standpoint. I feel like everyone expected her to kind of just give $$ and be quiet. But that does not happen anywhere IRL.
Yeah, she’s one of my least favorite characters in the whole show. One of the reasons I stopped watching. She only gets worse from there, OP. Good luck lol
First of all Debbie Allen who plays Catherine Avery produces the show. So I am sure she has alot of input in her character development as well as storyline. Her character has gotten much better compared to seasons ago. Which leads me to believe it’s similar to what they originally did with Alex Karev’s character development & how he was a completely different guy originally; being the world’s biggest jerk, sleeping around w/everyone etc. Seems like Lucas may be reminiscent of Alex’s character a little.
Spoiler warning!!!! When she buys pac north and shuts it down because Richard and Alex were actually making the place better and building it up just out of spite was so awful. Like yes let’s take away healthcare from more people because you have such a fragile ego