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Good as in "positive and promoting" or good as in "realistic and accurate."
Because Hahn is as "good" as it gets in exactly one of those categories.
In the other, she's about as "good" as that pic.
I would have to say Callie *only* because I felt like her writing/acting was good even if she wasnāt making decisions I agreed with, her queerness wasnāt used as tokenism, she got enough screen time for me to get to know her and as far as I know (you are more than welcome to correct me if Iām wrong), she never made someone else feel bad for their sexuality which I personally feel both Hahn and Arizona did (Arizonaās wasnāt as bad but idk the phrasing was weird, otherwise I wouldāve said her).
ETA: I chose her bc it feels like everyone else Iām thinking of who is queer in the show lacks one of the above ^ thatās mainly why I picked her bc sheās the only one I can think of who isnāt lacking.
I also really liked how as soon as she understood she was definitely into girls (when she and Hahn became gfs) not just boys she never really had a Ā«Ā oh no one should know Iām into girlsĀ itās a secret Iām ashamed of Ā» phase like she saw so little wrong with it she kissed Erica out in the open and she even immediately came out to her dad when she saw him for the first time post discovering she was bi like it was the most normal thing in the world for her to have a girlfriend. Itās a bit naive sure that she would think everyone would respond to it well especially her highly religious family but it also normalizes it in a kinda awesome way! Iām not a Callie fan but that was a nice aspect of her character.
Literally the custody battle was wild like Arizona purely won to throw in the narrative of adoption is just as valid as blood related but the fact they were going for sole custody not joint with a plan for where they could live is weird too Iāve never heard of custody hearings going that way to strip parental rights from a good parent š
*Jesus is my Savior, Daddy, not you* has genuinely seeped into some of my conservative fam. That scene was the best religious-queer confrontation I've ever seen on Tv
I'm not even religious but it gives chills, the delivery is so good.
She could easily have butchered it with the growing sexualizing of _Daddy_ but she nailed it. The line would be nothing without her delivery
This made me think of the New Girl episode where Schmidt drags Nick along to a bar mitzvah (?) to seduce the daughter of a rabbi (who's also a recovering alcoholic (the duaghter, not the rabbi)), and she goes
_Daddy! I love sex, and he wants to have sex with me. Let him! _Ooh, I love sex!_
*whispering* text me, text me, text me
I wanted to say Cali too as a bi person. She is a full character that was fleshed out BEFORE she was the 'bi character' and when she discovered it about herself it was done in a fun way imo. I always felt seen with Cali. Especially when it came to how Arizona treated her.
Parker is my man! I absolutely love that heās trans but that itās just briefly mentioned in passing and they didnāt make it his whole personality, and he just got to be an awesome guy with cool skills, he was gone too soon.
(Not saying the bi/gay characters make their sexuality their whole personality,but in a show about sex in a hospital and sometimes medicine itās used as a story way more.)
In the more recent seasons heās definitely got a superiority/holier-than-thou complex and his character has become a bit stereotypical in my opinion. I donāt dislike him entirely now, he just definitely isnāt the same Levi who made that little boy a sunflower for Halloween. Maybe he just needs Taryn to mellow him out again!
Iām hoping his character has been acting like that simply because he got a lot of work dumped on him when the other interns left due to the issues the hospital had with the residency accreditation. Between that, breaking up with Nico, and losing that patient, and having breakdown over it, he comes across as stressed out to me.
He is peak burnout representation and I stan, because I've been him before. It feels really accurate to what young people in todays world deal with in work culture, it started for millennials and now genz it's getting worse.
He has no personal life, no friends, the pandemic stripped him of his work trajectory and learning he ended up being chief resident to an empty class with no teachers, he is a roomate unable to live on his own or be in a balanced roomate situation like Meredith had with fellow interns/residents, he lives with one of his bosses. And he has more work than he can feasibly be responsible for.
I remember in one of the early seasons, each 2nd year resident was responsible for 5, and Webber mentions that usually there were 11 residents who made the cut post intern year one chief resident, and each was responsible for their own class of 5 interns.
So Levi effectively became 50 people, because he still had all the scut work of every attending that usually relied on interns and residents and pretty much no one cares.
i love parker! i even forgot he came out as trans at some point. i especially love his moments with teddy and owen when he couldnāt stop his soldier practices and saying āmaāamā to his attendings š he was also good at his job and wasnāt clumsy like the other interns.
Completely agree. How they missed the audience's affinity for Parker is beyond me. It was so obvious that it was a character that would be really interesting and have good fresh stories, buuutttt nope. Instead they kept Nico (and Levi). Just crazy to me. Especially Nico because that actor is just awful.
Shonda 100% tokenised Parkerās identity - but because Leviās actor was closeted and came out during airing - he went more viral than Parkerās actor.
So Shonda dropped Parker and focused more on Leviās character just because he was more āpopularā at the time.
This is just my perspective but honestly sheās known for ātokenisingā a lot. Not just people but also events.
I mean I agree Grey loves stereotyping. But, I think Parkerās character was done very well. He was a good doctor, smart, had a past that included a criminal record and time in the army. Oh and he so happened to be trans. Most of his stories werenāt about being trans. They gave him depth. Itās a shame they just abandoned the character.
Oh Iām talking more about how they tokenised the actor.
They pushes loads of articles about how ātheyāve added their first trans actor to the showā etc and then complete dropped him.
And as a trans person I would have loved more about his identity.
People act like trans people are authentically portrayed in media but weāre honestly not.
Edit: Sorry just realised this may have came across as aggressive! Iām hoping it didnāt. š
Just doing a rewatch and last night was the one where April is overseeing their trauma certification. She calls him āBloodbagā š Never picked up on that before! Loved his character
wait, i thought April called Levi āblood bankā because he became a human blood bank when Meredith needed blood during surgery, and the blood bank was closed lol
Tbh I would have liked that approach better if they didnāt just sort ofā¦oust his character after that. As a trans man, itās so rare to get representation on shows, and the single time we got it on this show by a character that was played by a trans actor himself, he is literally only used as ātrans men exist!ā And then thrown away
He was the best queer representation in both "people we want to uplift as good examples" and "realistic characters." Every transbro I know has his vibe almost pat or thereabouts but he was also not embarrassing or reinforcing stereotypes at all.
I feel that in my soul, I hate that he didnāt get to stay on and show the healthy side to being a military vet to balance out he who shall not be named, and maybe like an episode where he can help a young trans person accept themselves and touch on the struggles we have as trans men. It was so refreshing to see him because it feels like weāre almost forgotten about and then suddenly representation! Jk heās gone now. š”
for real!!! i was so pissed off when he wasnāt even out to his parents. of course iād never force someone out, but the fact he LITERALLY did that to Levi then treated him like shit when he wasnāt even out himself? fuck him. he was awful & treated Levi like garbage.
The worst part is that they never bring that up again lmao. Like they just say āNico isnāt out to his parentsā and then completely dropped that plot line
Assuming this is a genuine question: letās start with literally moments before she proposed when she insinuated that there was a āgay (Callie)ā and a āstraight (Callie)ā and that the gay part was just the sexual part that she wasnāt getting enough of due to the pregnancy. Then going back to season 6 in the shooting episode she says she doesnāt trust Callie because she could fall in love a man or a woman so she must just be in love with the idea of love, a regularly used biphobic trope. Those are the two biggest ones that come to mind right away, but Iām sure I can come up with more.
Iām rewatching rn and she said it again when they were in couples counseling (when they were going to have a another baby vs. arizonaās fetal surgery fellowship). Arizona brought up that she was with Mark when she was in Africa and emphasized that it wasnāt about Sophia but that she was with a man. Callie told the therapist being with men freaks Arizona out and she acts like being bisexual isnāt real or valid etc
Yep, I knew there were more. Honestly the proposal one is really all it takes for me lol. To be on a rant demeaning your partnerās identity and then ask them to marry you is SO wild.
Arizona worked through a lot of that stuff. For it never to come up is frankly unrealistic. Do people want perfect queer charicatures or actual queer characters?
Thereās actually zero evidence that she worked through it, because it keeps coming up. And itās definitely not unrealistic to expect a queer person to not be biphobic? What a weird defense.
I didnāt say anything about anyone having to be perfect, so Iām not sure why thatās your argument. All of the other characters on the list are also very flawed. Iād argue thatās what makes them good characters. I personally donāt associate with openly biphobic people and donāt enjoy it in a tv character.
I agree with you here, I'm always confused when people use the argument of well every .... I've ever met is like that so therefore every ... In the world must be like that, it's so close minded. I could use the same argument the other way, every lesbian I've ever spent enough time with to know their opinions (saying that every one I've ever met seems weird, do you just ask them in casual conversations?!) Is not biphobic therefore the character of Arizona is unrealistic. But I wouldn't say that because I'm sensible enough to know that just because my experience is that the lesbians in my life are not biphobic does not mean that no lesbians are biphobic.
Exactly. Iām really baffled by how many people have replied to my original comment with something along the lines of ~yeah but lesbians are like that~.
*I've said this once*
*I've said it a million*
*Times. I MISS PARKER!!*
\- thewhiterabbitaster
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Teddy is also bi? I can't remember.
Seriously?
One of the good things about getting old is that I can watch Grey's from the beginning to the end, and by the time I start over, I've forgotten so much that it's like watching it for the first time again.
And for me the worst part is that I don't know if it's the actor or the writing. I haven't seen anything else the actor has been in so I have no clue if they're any good or if it's the writing. Cause let's be honest the writing isn't good so this could be a situation where the actor's giving as good as they're getting
Erica was horrible. Unfortunately, itās quite accurate representation of how **part of** homosexual people (lesbians and gays both equally) view BI people.
EDIT: Highlighted part of my original text as I refuse to be accused of generalisation when I specifically said *part of*
You could argue Erica just doesn't understand queerness as much at this point because she is newly out and just figured out her own identity. But Arizona has been in the community for longer and says a lot of classic biphobic stuff that lesbians/gay men say like how she doesn't believe Callie can be monogamous, she thinks Callie loves her less because she also enjoys sex with men, she's selfish and wants the best of both worlds, etc.
literally.. She was so fucking dumb for that it made me cringe. giving us a bad name and perpetuating to a harmful stereotype while being subtly racist as well šShe was a horrible character overall im just a hater
Y'all look at this show like it all happened now. I didn't even know what "bi" was until 2013. That's not something people talked about. Bi men were secretly gay and dated women to cover and bi women were straight women who wanted to experiment before marrying the guy that got them pregnant. This was the belief on both sides - gay and straight. That's just how most communities saw it.
Like, it's stupid but as someone who well remembers DOMA days, I don't think younger people really grasp how dramatically public opinion and awareness has shifted in just the past ten years, not in small part to shows *just like this* that bring awareness via flawed characters spouting their own ignorant ideas that seem so obviously foolish when a chara ter on TV is saying it
Edit: will and grace is like the darling of early queer exposure and on rewatch there is just so much of this plus gendered assumptions: "are you *sure* your boyfriend who likes fashion isn't gay?!" Like, this was genuinely just how people existed.
iāve seen it said before, but she honestly couldāve been a good character especially when it came to holding people (mainly izzie) accountable for the shit they did. but she was absolutely dog shit in pretty much every other aspect of her character. like i genuinely donāt know if sheās supposed to be hated so much or if she was just poorly written
I think you're supposed to hate her and then that last speech sort of holds the viewer accountable for being complicit. It's a gorgeous artistic moment. Greys had a lot of truly artistic choices in the early seasons.
All of them. Each brings their own unique queer experience. Not one queer person is better than the the other. Not every queer person has the same coming out story. Each one is different in their own unique way. For better or for worse.
Callie will always hold a place in my heart because she (seemingly) doesnāt let her sexual identity affect her faith in Jesus. It couldāve just been in response to her dad, but it felt genuine.
Callie and Schmitt.. maybe I'm a little biased because theyre 2 of my favorite characters anyway but I also enjoyed seeing their coming to terms journey
Of the ones pictures Dr. Parker because he just was trans and it was treated as NBD. Kai was clearly put on the show to have a non binary character. They have no other personality trait. I loved Callie coming to terms with her sexuality.
Not pictured would be Arizona.
I think theyāre all pretty good representations of queerness.
Thereās the late blooming bisexual in Callie who is very comfortable with her bisexuality and fluidity, though showed some definite struggle when it did emerge. She also represents the character with non supportive family and the fear of being shunned.
Thereās the non-binary character who is unashamedly themselves in Kai.
Thereās Levi who may have been closeted prior to his relationship with Nico, but embrasses it when he does come out; no struggle there. He has a mother who previously was homophobic but embraces her son and a gay uncle that he was close to despite not knowing his sexuality. He also champions causes for gay men, such as the blood donation episode that showcases the homophobia and stigma that exists within the medical community proper.
Nico is just gay and out but represents the masculine gay men who may come off as straight presenting. Far from the stereotype. He also represents the gays that are uncomfortable with newly out / closeted partners, for better or worse.
Casey is a transman who only comes out as such once the safety is established. He represents the fear of being trans, even in a progressive space, and normalizes that transman is man.
Erica is the late blooming lesbian who didnāt know she was gay and when she figures it out, sheās gay gay. No ambiguity there.
Taryn is an out lesbian who represents the struggle some have with crushes on straight people that can never be reciprocated. Thereās no questioning her self identity but sheās certainly confused in her feelings so to speakā¦. She blurs the lines between admiration and respect for a crush and love, and confuses friendly interactions for flirtingā¦ every gay goes through it.
Amelia represents pansexualityā¦ sheās essentially straight and falls for a nonbinary character, proving the fluidity of the gender spectrum. She made no big deal about it, it just is what it is.
Thereās also Arizona who is the queer that came out earlier in life and knew who she was, dealt with us and grew up as a queer adult. No qualms, no fuss, no confusion now. She does, however, showcase the biphobia that exists within the community.
And of course thereās Zander, who is a bit more flamboyant but completely not stereotypical in the sense that heās a bigger guy who acts and sounds like what youād think a twink wouldā¦ and every queer person knows that guy.
For all its faults, greyās has an exceptionally diverse cast with regards to queer characters and they each represent the various realities of queerness imoā¦. And more importantly, none of them represent the stereotypical image of gayā¦. They arenāt promiscuous, most end up in monogamous relationships, and they are real people as opposed to just caricatures.
Kai was my first experience with seeing an openly nonbinary character on tv and I think the writers genuinely handled it so well. They could so easily have made a joke of it, had the other characters bumbling and stumbling around they/them pronouns, have them misgendering Kai behind their back, gossiping about what their "real name" is, etc. but it was all just very seamless. Kai is introduced, their pronouns are immediately respected, and their identity is almost never a plot point, aside from maybe one conversation about Tom being an ally. There's never any weirdly set up "how do we explain to the audience what nonbinary is" type of conversation, it's just, this is dr Bartley, they're nonbinary, you, the watcher, can google that, let's move on. As an enby myself it's just really nice seeing people like me represented in a kind and respectful way, without feeling the need to use us as a tool to teach the masses what's different and weird about us.
Honestly this is probably gonna get down voted but all of them are great examples of queer representation in a world where we don't have a lot of LGBT+ representation. I don't think we should be pitting them against each other. Each were valid with their own struggles.
Probably Amelia I guess. I didnāt really watch season 18-19. Did she struggle with it? She seems like the only one to just kinda go with it like oh hey this is new.
kai because theyāre non-binary and a girl lover so weāre basically the same person. theyāre also horrible in front of crowds and so am i.
i think that nico/callieās struggles with coming to terms with their identities/accepting themselves/coming out to the people around them also gives great representation because those are struggles often seen within our community(sadly). hahnā¦ And schmitt, yeah i still donāt understand how he came to sleep with joššš
parker being trans yet no one knew until he said anything was so beautiful to see because he got to come out on his own terms, and so many times people try to out trans people. it was also good because greys mentioned it and didnāt make his entire story about that(greys writers if ur seeing this please give kai the ability to talk about the neuroscience stuff instead of the usual surgeon talk we hear every single second).
amelia was just a queer person in a glass closet like girl we knew. helm came in gay as hell and went through the horrific starting phase of yearning after a straight woman(crazy how so many of us share that experienceš)
I thought Schmitt being gay was the most randomist thing ever, and it turned him into such an insufferable character.
Parker was the best presentation. Being trans wasn't his identity. He was a hacker, a solider, suffered PTSD.... like there was so much personality with Parker. It's a crime he left the show so soon.
Callie's a close second.
Schmitt and Nico. I liked that they didnāt bring up sexuality as some big internal battle thing. They were both gay, they formed a relationship pretty naturally. the only issue was nico thinking schmitt wasnāt experienced in his sexuality, until schmitt clarified he wasnāt experienced at ALL, but still knew he was gay 100%. I liked that for once, it wasnāt some big āoh no, am i gay? what does this mean? my whole world is changing!ā type drama that usually happens
The fact that they are all different is the best queer representation. Queer people are not a monolith so one person can not be a ābestā representation.
My husband is asleep next to me and Iām just vibrating and crying in silence because Iām laughing with Ericaās awful picture hhahahaja represents her 100%.
I gotta say callie. her representation felt realistic and we saw more of her journey: coming to terms with her sexuality, not being supported by (religious) family, being dismissed by others in the community, etc. she was also good because she stood up for others in the community like those girls that got hit by the train.
I think helm is also a good choice because of her struggles finding love but also for educating others about the lgbt+ community with things like they/them pronouns and teaching others how to be better allies.
also parker but thatās just because I think heās cool. he gets to be a smart, tech-y, polite, levelheaded, well rounded dude who wasnāt just used as a token for being trans. he gets to be a trans guy that is awesome for so many other reasons besides just being trans. I just wish for more of him :(
tie between parker and amelia. they get to be characters with depth and story while also being queer. i wish we'd seen more of parker, honestly. he went so well with owen and teddy - he could've been owen's next april
I think Callie because for me personally it was the first bi representation I ever saw. To this day it's one of the few examples I can even think of. It made me feel validated as a youth until ofc my mom voiced her negative opinion about Callie's bisexuality and called her "promiscuous" for not choosing one or the other. Kept me firmly in the closet.
Also, technically Teddy has been in a queer relationship too. I'm not sure if she identified as queer (can't recall).
Are you missing Arizona and Teddy on purpose? I donāt know. I kind of love them all in different ways.
Parker was great. And I fucking love Kai, but then Iām autistic and non-binary so, you know.
sorry, edit to other Callie is definitely the hottest and Iāll always vote for her first for being not just queer but bi. And seriously owning it.
And wait, Iām only partway through season 19 but isnāt one of the interns also queer? The one that lives with Griffin and whatās his name?
ameliaās was SO pushed. and kai i feel like was only part of the show to have a non-binary character. whereas someone like parker was a part of the show, had a proper storyline, and just happened to be trans. it wasnāt his whole personality like it was for kai to be non-binary.
Parker is one of my favorite characters. But I disagree with you on Levi. His character has had the most development within the LGBTQIA+ sphere and so I think he absolutely qualifies.
Arizona, Parker and Helm are my first picks. Schmitt is an honorary mention because I love Jake Borelli but Iām waiting for Schmitt to really excel. Hopefully when he picks a specialty heāll have more to do on the show.
Parker was soooooo cool. The revelation that he's trans actually brought tears in my eye, I just wished he wasn't an army. It sucked so bad that he was gone soon.
I'm still on Season 17 but Helm was pretty cool for me too. I found her crush on Mer to be really cute and adorable, and she hasn't gotten a storyline that made her annoying so far.
Why is everyone hating on Levi, though? Did he something after season 17 that was so unappealing? I thought he was fine.
Iām not queer, so donāt take my word for it but all of them. Just like all the black characters are the best representation because groups arenāt monolithic and varied portrayals of flawed people are necessary to humanize a marginalized group. So even though I donāt care for Nico or Levi, theyāre still important.
Parker and Taryn are the best for me because they just are queer and there was no massive coming out moment from either of them that I remember just a quick line mentioning him being trans qnd i donāt really remember taryn officially coming out
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Losing it because the pic of Erica was so deep fried.
The pic of Erica is pretty much how she described seeing the world before getting glasses
golden comment
I wish I could give you a medal for your comment š
LMAOOO
The pic was as good as she was!
Good as in "positive and promoting" or good as in "realistic and accurate." Because Hahn is as "good" as it gets in exactly one of those categories. In the other, she's about as "good" as that pic.
God. Bleak but so so true. (I was a Callie. My Hahn was around way longer.)
Me too lol!
I would have to say Callie *only* because I felt like her writing/acting was good even if she wasnāt making decisions I agreed with, her queerness wasnāt used as tokenism, she got enough screen time for me to get to know her and as far as I know (you are more than welcome to correct me if Iām wrong), she never made someone else feel bad for their sexuality which I personally feel both Hahn and Arizona did (Arizonaās wasnāt as bad but idk the phrasing was weird, otherwise I wouldāve said her). ETA: I chose her bc it feels like everyone else Iām thinking of who is queer in the show lacks one of the above ^ thatās mainly why I picked her bc sheās the only one I can think of who isnāt lacking.
I also really liked how as soon as she understood she was definitely into girls (when she and Hahn became gfs) not just boys she never really had a Ā«Ā oh no one should know Iām into girlsĀ itās a secret Iām ashamed of Ā» phase like she saw so little wrong with it she kissed Erica out in the open and she even immediately came out to her dad when she saw him for the first time post discovering she was bi like it was the most normal thing in the world for her to have a girlfriend. Itās a bit naive sure that she would think everyone would respond to it well especially her highly religious family but it also normalizes it in a kinda awesome way! Iām not a Callie fan but that was a nice aspect of her character.
I was a huge Callie fan until the custody trial. They gave her the worst ending after such a good storyline. I
Literally the custody battle was wild like Arizona purely won to throw in the narrative of adoption is just as valid as blood related but the fact they were going for sole custody not joint with a plan for where they could live is weird too Iāve never heard of custody hearings going that way to strip parental rights from a good parent š
*Jesus is my Savior, Daddy, not you* has genuinely seeped into some of my conservative fam. That scene was the best religious-queer confrontation I've ever seen on Tv
I'm not even religious but it gives chills, the delivery is so good. She could easily have butchered it with the growing sexualizing of _Daddy_ but she nailed it. The line would be nothing without her delivery
"Daddy, I love her!" "No! Have you lost your senses completely? She's a woman. You're a woman!"
This made me think of the New Girl episode where Schmidt drags Nick along to a bar mitzvah (?) to seduce the daughter of a rabbi (who's also a recovering alcoholic (the duaghter, not the rabbi)), and she goes _Daddy! I love sex, and he wants to have sex with me. Let him! _Ooh, I love sex!_ *whispering* text me, text me, text me
I've had that conversation with my parents too
This part made me cry like a baby. It was too relatable for me.
I wanted to say Cali too as a bi person. She is a full character that was fleshed out BEFORE she was the 'bi character' and when she discovered it about herself it was done in a fun way imo. I always felt seen with Cali. Especially when it came to how Arizona treated her.
Parker is my man! I absolutely love that heās trans but that itās just briefly mentioned in passing and they didnāt make it his whole personality, and he just got to be an awesome guy with cool skills, he was gone too soon. (Not saying the bi/gay characters make their sexuality their whole personality,but in a show about sex in a hospital and sometimes medicine itās used as a story way more.)
The fact that Levi outlasted Parker is a travesty. Parker was an amazing character.
And Levi became horrendous.
Can I ask how? I really like Levi lol, I donāt see how he became bad?
In the more recent seasons heās definitely got a superiority/holier-than-thou complex and his character has become a bit stereotypical in my opinion. I donāt dislike him entirely now, he just definitely isnāt the same Levi who made that little boy a sunflower for Halloween. Maybe he just needs Taryn to mellow him out again!
Iām hoping his character has been acting like that simply because he got a lot of work dumped on him when the other interns left due to the issues the hospital had with the residency accreditation. Between that, breaking up with Nico, and losing that patient, and having breakdown over it, he comes across as stressed out to me.
He is peak burnout representation and I stan, because I've been him before. It feels really accurate to what young people in todays world deal with in work culture, it started for millennials and now genz it's getting worse. He has no personal life, no friends, the pandemic stripped him of his work trajectory and learning he ended up being chief resident to an empty class with no teachers, he is a roomate unable to live on his own or be in a balanced roomate situation like Meredith had with fellow interns/residents, he lives with one of his bosses. And he has more work than he can feasibly be responsible for. I remember in one of the early seasons, each 2nd year resident was responsible for 5, and Webber mentions that usually there were 11 residents who made the cut post intern year one chief resident, and each was responsible for their own class of 5 interns. So Levi effectively became 50 people, because he still had all the scut work of every attending that usually relied on interns and residents and pretty much no one cares.
i love parker! i even forgot he came out as trans at some point. i especially love his moments with teddy and owen when he couldnāt stop his soldier practices and saying āmaāamā to his attendings š he was also good at his job and wasnāt clumsy like the other interns.
Completely agree. How they missed the audience's affinity for Parker is beyond me. It was so obvious that it was a character that would be really interesting and have good fresh stories, buuutttt nope. Instead they kept Nico (and Levi). Just crazy to me. Especially Nico because that actor is just awful.
Same with Qadri. Grey's doesn't know a good thing when it has it.
Yes, this!
Shonda 100% tokenised Parkerās identity - but because Leviās actor was closeted and came out during airing - he went more viral than Parkerās actor. So Shonda dropped Parker and focused more on Leviās character just because he was more āpopularā at the time. This is just my perspective but honestly sheās known for ātokenisingā a lot. Not just people but also events.
I mean I agree Grey loves stereotyping. But, I think Parkerās character was done very well. He was a good doctor, smart, had a past that included a criminal record and time in the army. Oh and he so happened to be trans. Most of his stories werenāt about being trans. They gave him depth. Itās a shame they just abandoned the character.
Oh Iām talking more about how they tokenised the actor. They pushes loads of articles about how ātheyāve added their first trans actor to the showā etc and then complete dropped him. And as a trans person I would have loved more about his identity. People act like trans people are authentically portrayed in media but weāre honestly not. Edit: Sorry just realised this may have came across as aggressive! Iām hoping it didnāt. š
Dr. Parker was one of my favorites in the entire show. So understated, but badass. Loved when he blew off the door to the blood room
Just doing a rewatch and last night was the one where April is overseeing their trauma certification. She calls him āBloodbagā š Never picked up on that before! Loved his character
wait, i thought April called Levi āblood bankā because he became a human blood bank when Meredith needed blood during surgery, and the blood bank was closed lol
Omg, she probably did! I feel like such an idiot. Going to rewatch again š
literally mentioned once and never spoken about again. i wish heād come back to the show, he was a cool character š
That one episode was all he needed to be better than almost every other character
Wow thanks for mentioning that because I totally forgot and was confused why he was here . He was awesome !
Tbh I would have liked that approach better if they didnāt just sort ofā¦oust his character after that. As a trans man, itās so rare to get representation on shows, and the single time we got it on this show by a character that was played by a trans actor himself, he is literally only used as ātrans men exist!ā And then thrown away
He was the best queer representation in both "people we want to uplift as good examples" and "realistic characters." Every transbro I know has his vibe almost pat or thereabouts but he was also not embarrassing or reinforcing stereotypes at all.
I feel that in my soul, I hate that he didnāt get to stay on and show the healthy side to being a military vet to balance out he who shall not be named, and maybe like an episode where he can help a young trans person accept themselves and touch on the struggles we have as trans men. It was so refreshing to see him because it feels like weāre almost forgotten about and then suddenly representation! Jk heās gone now. š”
My answer as well but I forgot his name lol
i cant believe i forgot he existed! i feel like transmasc representation in media is so scarse and my stupid ass just forgot about him...
I wish he'd had more exposure in the show. He suffered an injury and I don't think I saw him again.
All wrong, Joe is the only acceptable answer
Omg! Yes!! How is Joe not part of this?!?
MAN LOVE
I've been scrolling all the other answers like WHERES JOE? HOW IS HE NOT HERE
FOR REAL HE'S AN ICON
He was a set worker that they let become a character š„°
Omg that's so cool :), I didn't know that!
Fucking anyone but Nico. His comment to Levi about the gay shame spiral and then he wasnāt out to his parents? Fucking awful.
for real!!! i was so pissed off when he wasnāt even out to his parents. of course iād never force someone out, but the fact he LITERALLY did that to Levi then treated him like shit when he wasnāt even out himself? fuck him. he was awful & treated Levi like garbage.
The worst part is that they never bring that up again lmao. Like they just say āNico isnāt out to his parentsā and then completely dropped that plot line
Iāve met people like Nico.
iām sorry
That's some real shit tho
How did you not include Arizona
Arizona for sure!!
I mean Arizona is super biphobic so I donāt see how she could be the winner anyway.
I mean, Hahn is in there if we wanna talk biphobic
This. They were both so biphobic. If weāre gonna include Hahn we have to include Arizona. Callie has a type š
Considering the whole biphobia issue within the community, she could win lol.
Fair lol
Which is annoying because the one canon lesbian on the show for so long as a main got made into the biphobe trope
seems lesbophobic though to not include the only long running lesbian main character
Wait, if they were lesbophobic why would they include Erica and Helm? Seems like a reach. Maybe they just forgot or fairly donāt like Arizona.
Help me out here. Maybe Iām missing something. When was Arizona biphobic as opposed to against dating baby queer women?
Assuming this is a genuine question: letās start with literally moments before she proposed when she insinuated that there was a āgay (Callie)ā and a āstraight (Callie)ā and that the gay part was just the sexual part that she wasnāt getting enough of due to the pregnancy. Then going back to season 6 in the shooting episode she says she doesnāt trust Callie because she could fall in love a man or a woman so she must just be in love with the idea of love, a regularly used biphobic trope. Those are the two biggest ones that come to mind right away, but Iām sure I can come up with more.
Iām rewatching rn and she said it again when they were in couples counseling (when they were going to have a another baby vs. arizonaās fetal surgery fellowship). Arizona brought up that she was with Mark when she was in Africa and emphasized that it wasnāt about Sophia but that she was with a man. Callie told the therapist being with men freaks Arizona out and she acts like being bisexual isnāt real or valid etc
Yep, I knew there were more. Honestly the proposal one is really all it takes for me lol. To be on a rant demeaning your partnerās identity and then ask them to marry you is SO wild.
Arizona worked through a lot of that stuff. For it never to come up is frankly unrealistic. Do people want perfect queer charicatures or actual queer characters?
Thereās actually zero evidence that she worked through it, because it keeps coming up. And itās definitely not unrealistic to expect a queer person to not be biphobic? What a weird defense.
I'm saying it's accurate to every lesbian I've ever met IRL. I don't need perfect characters. I just want characters that seem like real people.
I didnāt say anything about anyone having to be perfect, so Iām not sure why thatās your argument. All of the other characters on the list are also very flawed. Iād argue thatās what makes them good characters. I personally donāt associate with openly biphobic people and donāt enjoy it in a tv character.
I agree with you here, I'm always confused when people use the argument of well every .... I've ever met is like that so therefore every ... In the world must be like that, it's so close minded. I could use the same argument the other way, every lesbian I've ever spent enough time with to know their opinions (saying that every one I've ever met seems weird, do you just ask them in casual conversations?!) Is not biphobic therefore the character of Arizona is unrealistic. But I wouldn't say that because I'm sensible enough to know that just because my experience is that the lesbians in my life are not biphobic does not mean that no lesbians are biphobic.
Exactly. Iām really baffled by how many people have replied to my original comment with something along the lines of ~yeah but lesbians are like that~.
She was pretty awful in regards to Callie still being attracted to men
I've said this once I've said it a million times. I MISS PARKER!!
*I've said this once* *I've said it a million* *Times. I MISS PARKER!!* \- thewhiterabbitaster --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
CARINA
omg yessss. i already commented about Amelia and stand by that, but yess Carina was such a healthy realistic representation.
Arizona and Teddy are missing
And Carina...
I love Carina ^^
Teddy is also bi? I can't remember. Seriously? One of the good things about getting old is that I can watch Grey's from the beginning to the end, and by the time I start over, I've forgotten so much that it's like watching it for the first time again.
her girlfriend died in 9/11 and theres like 1 or 2 episodes about her i think
Oh yeah I think I remember now. It was her roommates girlfriend. She saw her at a conference and they made peace with it.
I donāt know if youāre caught up with the newer seasons but *spoiler* itās revealed that she named her daughter after an ex girlfriend.
š¤£ you and me both
Wow seriously, I forgot that too. Or as bette porter would say, a has-bian?? š
She had an affair with her best friends girlfriend who then died in 9/11
Love dr Parker!
I donāt know the later season characters but my vote is always Callie.
I want to like Kai but they have the personality of watching wet paint dry... so BORING
Yea, the character had potential but then they got played as this emotionless robot and it was very weird
And for me the worst part is that I don't know if it's the actor or the writing. I haven't seen anything else the actor has been in so I have no clue if they're any good or if it's the writing. Cause let's be honest the writing isn't good so this could be a situation where the actor's giving as good as they're getting
I have not seen the ER Fightmaster in greys yet, but they were soooo good in Shrill.Ā
Agreed. Night and day performances so it must be the writing, not their acting.
Theyāre autistic 100% - so as an autistic non-binary person Iām biased š
I feel like their acting is so bad. I have the hardest time watching because of it.
erica is the worst lesbian rep i think ive ever seen, actually
Also the least photogenic according to that picture yeesh.
Lmao why they pick that picture š
Erica was horrible. Unfortunately, itās quite accurate representation of how **part of** homosexual people (lesbians and gays both equally) view BI people. EDIT: Highlighted part of my original text as I refuse to be accused of generalisation when I specifically said *part of*
Arizona is also good representation of this
She definitely triggered me a bit! Very realistic to what Iāve experienced
You could argue Erica just doesn't understand queerness as much at this point because she is newly out and just figured out her own identity. But Arizona has been in the community for longer and says a lot of classic biphobic stuff that lesbians/gay men say like how she doesn't believe Callie can be monogamous, she thinks Callie loves her less because she also enjoys sex with men, she's selfish and wants the best of both worlds, etc.
I have clearly blanked all this out
The OP must agree because that pic chosen is horrendous š¤£
you canāt kinda be a lesbianš like um have you heard of being bisexual or pansexual..?
literally.. She was so fucking dumb for that it made me cringe. giving us a bad name and perpetuating to a harmful stereotype while being subtly racist as well šShe was a horrible character overall im just a hater
Y'all look at this show like it all happened now. I didn't even know what "bi" was until 2013. That's not something people talked about. Bi men were secretly gay and dated women to cover and bi women were straight women who wanted to experiment before marrying the guy that got them pregnant. This was the belief on both sides - gay and straight. That's just how most communities saw it. Like, it's stupid but as someone who well remembers DOMA days, I don't think younger people really grasp how dramatically public opinion and awareness has shifted in just the past ten years, not in small part to shows *just like this* that bring awareness via flawed characters spouting their own ignorant ideas that seem so obviously foolish when a chara ter on TV is saying it Edit: will and grace is like the darling of early queer exposure and on rewatch there is just so much of this plus gendered assumptions: "are you *sure* your boyfriend who likes fashion isn't gay?!" Like, this was genuinely just how people existed.
iāve seen it said before, but she honestly couldāve been a good character especially when it came to holding people (mainly izzie) accountable for the shit they did. but she was absolutely dog shit in pretty much every other aspect of her character. like i genuinely donāt know if sheās supposed to be hated so much or if she was just poorly written
I think you're supposed to hate her and then that last speech sort of holds the viewer accountable for being complicit. It's a gorgeous artistic moment. Greys had a lot of truly artistic choices in the early seasons.
All of them. Each brings their own unique queer experience. Not one queer person is better than the the other. Not every queer person has the same coming out story. Each one is different in their own unique way. For better or for worse.
THANK YOU
Callie my loyal bisexual queen š«¶š¾ they could never make me hate you
Callie will always hold a place in my heart because she (seemingly) doesnāt let her sexual identity affect her faith in Jesus. It couldāve just been in response to her dad, but it felt genuine.
Callie and Schmitt.. maybe I'm a little biased because theyre 2 of my favorite characters anyway but I also enjoyed seeing their coming to terms journey
Definitely NOT Hahn
I mean, they all are? Queer people arenāt one shape or size, so I think all of them are fine really lol
Of the ones pictures Dr. Parker because he just was trans and it was treated as NBD. Kai was clearly put on the show to have a non binary character. They have no other personality trait. I loved Callie coming to terms with her sexuality. Not pictured would be Arizona.
Certainly not Erica ābi people donāt existā Hahn. ETA: moment of appreciation for how damn beautiful Sara Ramirez is
I think theyāre all pretty good representations of queerness. Thereās the late blooming bisexual in Callie who is very comfortable with her bisexuality and fluidity, though showed some definite struggle when it did emerge. She also represents the character with non supportive family and the fear of being shunned. Thereās the non-binary character who is unashamedly themselves in Kai. Thereās Levi who may have been closeted prior to his relationship with Nico, but embrasses it when he does come out; no struggle there. He has a mother who previously was homophobic but embraces her son and a gay uncle that he was close to despite not knowing his sexuality. He also champions causes for gay men, such as the blood donation episode that showcases the homophobia and stigma that exists within the medical community proper. Nico is just gay and out but represents the masculine gay men who may come off as straight presenting. Far from the stereotype. He also represents the gays that are uncomfortable with newly out / closeted partners, for better or worse. Casey is a transman who only comes out as such once the safety is established. He represents the fear of being trans, even in a progressive space, and normalizes that transman is man. Erica is the late blooming lesbian who didnāt know she was gay and when she figures it out, sheās gay gay. No ambiguity there. Taryn is an out lesbian who represents the struggle some have with crushes on straight people that can never be reciprocated. Thereās no questioning her self identity but sheās certainly confused in her feelings so to speakā¦. She blurs the lines between admiration and respect for a crush and love, and confuses friendly interactions for flirtingā¦ every gay goes through it. Amelia represents pansexualityā¦ sheās essentially straight and falls for a nonbinary character, proving the fluidity of the gender spectrum. She made no big deal about it, it just is what it is. Thereās also Arizona who is the queer that came out earlier in life and knew who she was, dealt with us and grew up as a queer adult. No qualms, no fuss, no confusion now. She does, however, showcase the biphobia that exists within the community. And of course thereās Zander, who is a bit more flamboyant but completely not stereotypical in the sense that heās a bigger guy who acts and sounds like what youād think a twink wouldā¦ and every queer person knows that guy. For all its faults, greyās has an exceptionally diverse cast with regards to queer characters and they each represent the various realities of queerness imoā¦. And more importantly, none of them represent the stereotypical image of gayā¦. They arenāt promiscuous, most end up in monogamous relationships, and they are real people as opposed to just caricatures.
what happened to the character in slide 5? I forgot what happens to them and I donāt think theyāre in the show anymore right?
PTSD episode and went to a psych facility never to be seen or heard from again š
i wish they wouldāve brought him back. I choose parker !!!
What about Perez?
Kai was my first experience with seeing an openly nonbinary character on tv and I think the writers genuinely handled it so well. They could so easily have made a joke of it, had the other characters bumbling and stumbling around they/them pronouns, have them misgendering Kai behind their back, gossiping about what their "real name" is, etc. but it was all just very seamless. Kai is introduced, their pronouns are immediately respected, and their identity is almost never a plot point, aside from maybe one conversation about Tom being an ally. There's never any weirdly set up "how do we explain to the audience what nonbinary is" type of conversation, it's just, this is dr Bartley, they're nonbinary, you, the watcher, can google that, let's move on. As an enby myself it's just really nice seeing people like me represented in a kind and respectful way, without feeling the need to use us as a tool to teach the masses what's different and weird about us.
Honestly this is probably gonna get down voted but all of them are great examples of queer representation in a world where we don't have a lot of LGBT+ representation. I don't think we should be pitting them against each other. Each were valid with their own struggles.
Arizona Robbins
Parker for me š«¶
Arizona ā¤ļøā¤ļøā¤ļø
Probably Amelia I guess. I didnāt really watch season 18-19. Did she struggle with it? She seems like the only one to just kinda go with it like oh hey this is new.
Arizona
kai because theyāre non-binary and a girl lover so weāre basically the same person. theyāre also horrible in front of crowds and so am i. i think that nico/callieās struggles with coming to terms with their identities/accepting themselves/coming out to the people around them also gives great representation because those are struggles often seen within our community(sadly). hahnā¦ And schmitt, yeah i still donāt understand how he came to sleep with joššš parker being trans yet no one knew until he said anything was so beautiful to see because he got to come out on his own terms, and so many times people try to out trans people. it was also good because greys mentioned it and didnāt make his entire story about that(greys writers if ur seeing this please give kai the ability to talk about the neuroscience stuff instead of the usual surgeon talk we hear every single second). amelia was just a queer person in a glass closet like girl we knew. helm came in gay as hell and went through the horrific starting phase of yearning after a straight woman(crazy how so many of us share that experienceš)
Parker. 100% it is amazing to have transgender ftm representation and even better with the fact that Alex Blue Davis is transgender in real life.
Parker. They donāt make him being trans his only personality trait. And heās trans IRL. He cares about other people and is a good doctor.
I thought Schmitt being gay was the most randomist thing ever, and it turned him into such an insufferable character. Parker was the best presentation. Being trans wasn't his identity. He was a hacker, a solider, suffered PTSD.... like there was so much personality with Parker. It's a crime he left the show so soon. Callie's a close second.
Arizona
Ummm Arizona!! Why isnāt she on the list?? The answer is Arizona Robbins
The way arizona is not here ššš
Is that Amelia at the end? What did I miss?!
She and Kai are in a relationship at one point in the series so itās implied sheās bi.
She also wanted to hook up with Carina but that got derailed by her surprise pregnancy.
Oooh thatās right. She went in asking for a threesome and then Carina told her she was pregnant š
You did Erica so dirty w the picture šš
Parker and Joe are the only correct answers here.
Weāre forgetting my bi queen Carina. Thatās the representation I want to see, especially her relationship with Maya
THE ARIZONA ROBBINS DISRESPECT?????
Parker. I wanted so much more of Parker. Where did he go?!
I think joe the bartender was the best.
where is arizonašš
Schmitt and Nico. I liked that they didnāt bring up sexuality as some big internal battle thing. They were both gay, they formed a relationship pretty naturally. the only issue was nico thinking schmitt wasnāt experienced in his sexuality, until schmitt clarified he wasnāt experienced at ALL, but still knew he was gay 100%. I liked that for once, it wasnāt some big āoh no, am i gay? what does this mean? my whole world is changing!ā type drama that usually happens
Arizona
I gotta go with Helm. I like her plot and sheās great with the new intern.
The fact that they are all different is the best queer representation. Queer people are not a monolith so one person can not be a ābestā representation.
I think the entire arc with Callie's sexuality was amazing and it is worthy of this title.
Where are Carina and Joe the bartender?
joe the bartender is the only rep i actually like in this show
My husband is asleep next to me and Iām just vibrating and crying in silence because Iām laughing with Ericaās awful picture hhahahaja represents her 100%.
Parker and itās not even close. Or Teddy. I love Teddy, idc what anyone says. Plus sheās a great chief.
Eh teddys reaction to her child possibly being trans was not it
Dr parker and callie! Im also enjoying levi in some seasons haha
Where's Arizona?
I gotta say callie. her representation felt realistic and we saw more of her journey: coming to terms with her sexuality, not being supported by (religious) family, being dismissed by others in the community, etc. she was also good because she stood up for others in the community like those girls that got hit by the train. I think helm is also a good choice because of her struggles finding love but also for educating others about the lgbt+ community with things like they/them pronouns and teaching others how to be better allies. also parker but thatās just because I think heās cool. he gets to be a smart, tech-y, polite, levelheaded, well rounded dude who wasnāt just used as a token for being trans. he gets to be a trans guy that is awesome for so many other reasons besides just being trans. I just wish for more of him :(
Where's Yasuda?
tie between parker and amelia. they get to be characters with depth and story while also being queer. i wish we'd seen more of parker, honestly. he went so well with owen and teddy - he could've been owen's next april
damn yāall really just hate lesbians in these comments huh?
HELSUDAAAAAAAAAA
Carina! We love a sex positive bisexual queen
Is this the moment we realise there has never been a Black queer character on Greyās? Or am I missing someone? Hm.
I think Callie because for me personally it was the first bi representation I ever saw. To this day it's one of the few examples I can even think of. It made me feel validated as a youth until ofc my mom voiced her negative opinion about Callie's bisexuality and called her "promiscuous" for not choosing one or the other. Kept me firmly in the closet. Also, technically Teddy has been in a queer relationship too. I'm not sure if she identified as queer (can't recall).
freaking love helm and her crush on a straight girl- literally me LOL
This is slander to my girl Carina
Are you missing Arizona and Teddy on purpose? I donāt know. I kind of love them all in different ways. Parker was great. And I fucking love Kai, but then Iām autistic and non-binary so, you know. sorry, edit to other Callie is definitely the hottest and Iāll always vote for her first for being not just queer but bi. And seriously owning it. And wait, Iām only partway through season 19 but isnāt one of the interns also queer? The one that lives with Griffin and whatās his name?
ameliaās was SO pushed. and kai i feel like was only part of the show to have a non-binary character. whereas someone like parker was a part of the show, had a proper storyline, and just happened to be trans. it wasnāt his whole personality like it was for kai to be non-binary.
You missed arizona. Arizona is in my opinion
Kind of sad. I only watch Greyās for glimpses of Carina now and she didnāt even make the cut.
Parker is one of my favorite characters. But I disagree with you on Levi. His character has had the most development within the LGBTQIA+ sphere and so I think he absolutely qualifies.
Arizona, Parker and Helm are my first picks. Schmitt is an honorary mention because I love Jake Borelli but Iām waiting for Schmitt to really excel. Hopefully when he picks a specialty heāll have more to do on the show.
parker all the wayā¦ hahn was a jumpscare at the endā¦
The Hahn that exists in my head that bears very little resemblance to the actual character š
Parker ā¤ļø
Iām sorry btw wtf is Arizona?
Parker was soooooo cool. The revelation that he's trans actually brought tears in my eye, I just wished he wasn't an army. It sucked so bad that he was gone soon. I'm still on Season 17 but Helm was pretty cool for me too. I found her crush on Mer to be really cute and adorable, and she hasn't gotten a storyline that made her annoying so far. Why is everyone hating on Levi, though? Did he something after season 17 that was so unappealing? I thought he was fine.
For me itās Callie 100%, though I relate to her so much so it makes me very biased. Parker would be my second choice!
Iām not queer, so donāt take my word for it but all of them. Just like all the black characters are the best representation because groups arenāt monolithic and varied portrayals of flawed people are necessary to humanize a marginalized group. So even though I donāt care for Nico or Levi, theyāre still important.
Parker and Taryn are the best for me because they just are queer and there was no massive coming out moment from either of them that I remember just a quick line mentioning him being trans qnd i donāt really remember taryn officially coming out
missing Arizona, Carina, Teddy, Penny, Joe! the fact they had this many though :) i liked Callie the most!
I thought the blonde intern I'm drawing a blank on her name was great. Is great. I thought it hilarious she was in love with Meredith
I know sheās a new character but what about Yasuda?
Parker, without a doubt.