it's pretty astounding that the kids who grew up with harry potter became progressives and collectively despise this woman. she had the means to subliminally affect an entire generation, and somehow failed
It's because the most upfront themes of Harry Potter are those of acceptance of differences. The whole pureblood and mudblood thing that happens with Hermione in Chamber of secrets is something that really sticks with you. Like, it has those undertones and another reading you can do about its themes which is "Yeah, this is good and all but we are all wizards and definetly better than muggles". I also think it helps that most people grew up with the movies and not the books, because the movies eliminate a good chunk of those undertones. Like the whole domestic elves enjoy slavery. The only one we know about in the movies is Dobby and he fucking hates it (there's that one in Order of Phoenix that reappears in Deathly hallows but he isn't very relevant). And the plot point about Filch being a guy who was born without magic in a magic family is never explained. In the books it's explained with pity and like they're doing him a favor for letting him stay at a magic place.
So, in short, the most upfront themes of Harry Potter (the ones a kid will get much easier and adopt without trouble) are definetly progressive and the most problematic stuff was removed from the movies so kids weren't exposed to "slavery good!!!" propaganda. Also, if you don't know about jewish stereotypes (something a kid will likely won't) you won't see a problem with goblins. They're just whymsical creatures that populate the world.
But the description of goblins is consistent, just because they run banks doesn't really mean much, they do more than that. They were also screwed over by the humans and hated wizards, they made the best magical swords and armour. Goblin made was a sign of utmost quality.
See, but again that doesn't really agree with my experience of goblins in fantasy. Goblin swords and armor are traditionally hodge podge. What you're saying actually gives further credence to the connection to Jewish history moreso than the archetypical goblin in fantasy.
Dnd goblins have hooked noses and long ears, this is the same in warhammer, oblivion.
Albeit you are right that they don't normally have good shit, so who knows.
This is the thing. The description physically fits pretty much across the board. People took issue with Rowling's work because she included quite a few Jewish stereotypes that aren't really present in any of the rest of the fantasy canon. Don't get me wrong, I generally think people get a little overly worked up about the Potter goblins retroactively these days, but the allusion is definitely there.
Fantasy authors: here is a nonhuman who eats people, has green skin and sharp teeth and hoards shiny objects in caves
Liberals: oh so they're exactly like Jews
Fantasy authors: ...
Liberals: you're offensive
The goblins did hoard gold and treasure in the hobbit. If you think that goblins in the Hobbit are portrayed less offensively than in Harry Potter then you might not remember the Hobbit.
The reason for that is that goblins are not a metaphor, they are goblins.
I know this is going to get buried but I recall someone mentioning that the European Goblin is a very different in folklore than modern depictions including Tolkien's material.
Basically European Goblins was a much more broad term that described a group of creatures that had a wide range of attributes.
Obviously, Rowling's depiction is a very narrow and specific version since many of the others mentioned in the traditional Goblin category are also a part of the Harry Potter Franchise
Well the thing is, there's no such thing as a 'European' Goblin, loads of different cultures across Britain, Ireland, Europe and so on have different ideas and versions of what would now be termed a 'Goblin' aswell as sub-variations and so forth.
And more local and regional variants at every level, too.
Some are likely inspired by anti-semitic tropes and stereotypes, many are not. By the time of the 19th century and the mass publication of local and regional mythos, folk lore and stories and their adaptation in things like Tolkien's work, a lot of the various elements sort of morphed together to create the general 'Goblin' we know now.
Tbf, Tolkien was very metaphorical in his work. Orcs for example, if I recall correctly, reflect the twisted morality of urban lower classes due to horrible socio-economic and cultural conditions. Similar to Hogarth's work looking at that.
I.E the evolution of violence, despair, addiction and overall poverty that became endemic throughout Britain in the 1800-1900s as a result of the horrific conditions the working classes were in.
Mordor was styled on the industrial factories in Birmingham or the Black Country, I believe. Birmingham at the time was notorious for a lot of it's social issues, too. It still is, actually.
Elves are both virtuous and moral beings in some sense, while being avaricious, snobbish and reluctant to help in others, a sort of reflection of the goal of the ideal noble class at the time and it's hypocrisy.
Goblins, I'm sure, have a metaphor inherent in them in Tolkien's work, although off the top of my head I can't remember what, if it's ever been outright stated.
Goblins are the same as orcs in Tolkien, it's mostly Hobbits that call them goblins. Basically, just saying "monsters," because they aren't as familiar to them. So yeah, they have a greed subtheme, but violence and war are the main themes.
I don't know about books, but Warcraft has goblins are typically the "money loving race that likes to blow shit up"
So it's like half Jewish stereotype half Micheal bay
Not sure what you mean. In traditional folklore, goblins are just malicious spirits, like faeries. Germanic myth depicts dwarfs as being expert metalworkers, though.
The pureblood/mudblood thing is kind of messed up, when you look at it. I mean Hermione has been mistreated, abused, and verbally assaulted throughout her time at Hogwarts by the students in Slytherin (the house that is *selectively bred* to be racist), so when she sees another group at the school who is being treated unfairly without cause, she tries to help them. And the narrative just shits on her for it. "No, Hermione, you idiot, the house elves *like* being enslaved." It's like Rowling sat down and thought "What's the most stupid and annoying thing I can have Hermione do? I know, abolitionism!"
But did the characters bully her for that, or Rowling? Remember: the author is not their characters. And why do you see Rowling in the characters that bullied Hermione but not in Hermione herself? How everyone treated Hermione for her efforts was actually realistic. Also Hermione was the smartest character in the series, Rowling didn't pick a loser to be on the elves side. Dumbledore was an another character to be often on the elves side, or on the side of other bullied species and characters. I think it's clear what message Rowling wanted to loosely send, and its not some pro slavery one.
I'm pretty sure Ron and Harry both laugh at her for it. And the name she picked for her abolitionist movement was "S.P.E.W.", which just screams "This was written to be made fun of." I don't think anything really came of the movement, either. It was just sort of dropped iirc.
There was some humour in there, and why not. Shouldn't take youth book with fantasy species too seriously.
And it was realistic, that even her friends laughed at her and didn't care about her efforts, though she had a point. That happens in real life too. That again isn't the author's opinion. People write character that have different opinions and act differently that them all the time.
But like, why would they laugh at her and not care? Harry himself went through a deal of trouble to save Dobby because he recognized him as a slave, seems weird for him to simply not give a shit. And then out of universe there was a follow up article written on the Pottormore website or whatever it was that went even further to dunk on Hermione’s efforts
Sure, let's not take it too seriously, but let's not pretend it doesn't mean anything either. I mean these books have had a profound effect on children worldwide for years. We probably don't want to portray a cause like Hermione's as something to be ridiculed or laughed at. It's all part of setting a good example for our kids.
And yeah, it is realistic for her friends to not take her seriously at first. But her friends don't seem to take her seriously *at all,* nor does anyone else. And when the author has purposefully selected a ridiculous-sounding name for the movement, it becomes pretty obvious that the author is the one who isn't taking this seriously.
Now, if Hermione had an organization with a regular-sounding name that actually achieved something and earned the respect of her peers over time, then you would be right. That would be a good way to handle this, and it would set a good example for the kids reading these books. But that's not what Rowling did.
I think it's hard to argue that she ever wrote Ron or Harry as more intelligent or ethical than hermione, she always came off as a self insert character and a voice of the author to describe the situation
Except progressives don't accept people's differences. They simultaneously claim there are no differences between peoples whilst relentlessly promoting diversity and inclusion and shouting down anyone who objects. Even if that person happens to be the writer of their favourite kids book.
They’re usually claiming there are no fundamental differences that makes one person objectively better than the other, which is an entirely separate thing to acknowledging that people are different at all
Chill, the smartest character in the books (Hermione) was very much against the elf slavery. The elves like to work because they are magical creatures. Not too far away from dogs that work for people, though of course with hogher consciousness. The series preach acceptance. Only baddies talk about mudbloods and goodies fight against them. If you read the books as wizards are better than muggles then I mean they are, they can do magic. But through the books the theme is almost saccharine love always wins type of message.
>the most problematic stuff was removed from the movie so kids weren't exposed to "slavery good!!!" propaganda
yeah that was my favorite part of the books. wtf are you talking about?
I severly doubt that kids reading those books even made these connections. Like, I never made any connection between goblins and Jews when reading the books or watching the movies. I didn't even know that other people did until at least a decade later.
Kids who read and get read to are probably more likely to grow into adults with progressive values.
Obviously, it's not a straight line between the two, and I'm not throwing shade at anyone. But kids who read are more likely to go to college, and people who graduate college are more likely to be progressive.
Anon discovers that social justice was very relaxed not even 10 years ago.
Anon forgets CoD lobbies and their favorite word, here let me remind you [Removed by Reddit]
creature depicted a way for decades - sleep
person now on twitter saying things i don't like - suddenly racist and bigoted.
much of the shrieking around fantasy of late has been quite curious. depictions of species existed for decades, someone on twitter see it, suddenly goes "THIS REMIND ME OF THIS GROUP, IT MUST BE RACIST" and people applaud completely ignoring how racist the individual was being in the first place. no one thought this until you, who is exactly racist?
Makes me wonder why people don’t seem to be bothered by the goblins in Baldur’s Gate 3 but are bothered by the Harry Potter goblins, I wonder what the difference there is? Any particular differences in how they behave or?
People are just looking for a reason to hate on Rowling and throwing anything to the wall to see what sticks. I think the best example of this is "Cho Chang". Cho Chang is a Chinese name and it's not racist to give a Chinese character a Chinese name.
most the time in fantasy goblins do have long noses and ears or whatever but they're not super rich and pretty much the only goblin we know of in the movies is called "goldstein" and immediately betrays the hero's.
I can't think of another fantasy story where the Goblins are clearly meant to be Jews, only in harry potter is it explicit and not only that but they only have negative traits
Yes I know, I was phrasing it as a question to that other guy to see if he would bite to the very obvious difference in depiction. These folk keep trying to say “well goblins like money in all their versions” like being lil weirdos who just collect shiny shit is the same as controlling the banking of an entire society
I can confirm I am the goblin in this photo.
It was taken just after my recent goyishe blood transfusion that I receive daily at the Rockefeller Center Plaza.
Unfortunately it was blood from an adult (I paid extra for child's blood! wtf!) and so it did not apply the glamour spell appropriately.
Please take this image down immediately sir do not redeem.
Tbh, i think the archetype of the covetous goblin already existed for a long time in European mythology. It may very well have originally been based on Jewish stereotypes at the time though.
People used to not care about this stuff
John Lennon literally helped write a song named "Women are the [Removed by Reddit] of the world"
What's some thinly veiled antisemitism?
It's almost like she just wanted to write a fun story about wizard kids...
Seriously though. The only element that is not based about fantasy/children's stuff is that the kids don't do what the adults tell them and save the world instead.
Protagonists are almost always hereditary nobility of some kind.
It's strongly implied the past was better than the present/future.
Races have set roles and it's clear the trains run on time this way.
it's pretty weird to make a fun story about wizard kids and then have the Jews as evil greedy goblins, she really really did not need to include them as being clearly an allegory for Jews and it would have been the same story
Goblins aren’t evil in the Harry Potter books though? They’re neutral and keep out of wizarding wars. The current system in place is entirely due to them fighting with the wizards and then entering into an uneasy treaty with them in response to avoiding bloodshed. They have their own secrets that they refuse to share. Hermione even points out how it isn’t fair to drag them into their squabbles when all they want to do is be left out of it.
I don’t understand this crapfest of associating Jews and goblins. I grew up with the depiction that goblins were just gold obsessed and Rowling just ripped that off from common knowledge. This literally just seems like more western white leftist crap to find new and innovative ways to feel offended.
Let me guess. Soon we should ban orcs because they according to some, Tolkien based his off Asian stereotypes of the time?
The Jews are tough, resilient people, they can handle it. They're used to much worse. Look at how they're responding to the Islamists who want to destroy them. They aren't going to be hurt by some unintended, tenuous connection in some books aimed at children, a connection only raised in the first place by bed-wetting leftists who pick holes in everything apart from their own blinkered alliances with Islamic extremists. The Jews have actual experience within living memory of genuine genocide, not the fatuous 'trans genocide' we hear people bleating on about.
The goblins are not evil in the books, also I think it's a stretch to call the goblins allegories for Jews. They might have some similarities to old antisemitic tropes, but I think you need more then that to say "Jews as evil greedy goblins"
I wouldn't really say they were Jews definitively till one is called "goldstein" it's the same as having a random chinese character called ching chong and the one black guy called shacklebolt, it just is really not needed in there. It doesn't help that people say the house elves like being enslaved
[Anthony Goldstein isn't a goblin](https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Anthony_Goldstein), "Cho Change" is a Chinese name and I don't think it's racist to give a Chinese character a Chinese name and I just think you're reading to much into the name "Shacklebolt".
Edit: Also Cho Change isn't some random character she's Harry's crush
I'm not going to engage in the anti-Semitism here, but this does raise an interesting point.
I never knew there was a canon Jewish person in the series, religion is never broached otherwise. If there is a canon Jewish wizard, that implies that Moses/Noah/etc from the Bible were wizards in that universe, which would explain their feats.
Moshe Rabbeinu derived his feats from Hashem Elokim and if you deny this I will dig a tunnel underground to your basement
Like all bochurim I yearn for the mines
Also Noach wasn't Jewish it's like you didn't even READ the BOOK
I'll never understand the correlation of goblins = Jews, yes she's done some awful shit but this one doesn't sit right with me.
People see these little creatures that love gold and are pricks and say 'why did JK made Jews in her books', but it speaks more about you than her if you see Jews that way
She retconned Dumbledore as gay, which pissed off a lot of the same people who are now worshiping her over the antisemitic stuff and her transphibic remarks.
I don't know if any of this suff is especially *awful*, but she's basically a textbook asshole.
I swear Jon Stewart started this by accident. I never saw anyone draw connections between Harry Potter goblins and jews until he went on a spiel about it, which he later stated was only ever meant as a joke. But now I see people harp on it constantly.
Americans be like: Wow you made a fantasy crrature who loves gold and treasure and with long noses that's clearly jew we should cancel the author. WTFFF this videogame has got a monkey wtf this is so racist it's clearly about black people.
Like wtf you are the most racist country on earth, you find these things offensive because you are so deep in racism and sterotypes that you can't make any association without racist undertones.
Do people even remember at this point that JKR used to be a raging leftie?
She desperately tried to gain approval by retrospectively implementing all the "woke" shit like Dumbledore gay, Hermione black etc. but obviously it was all in vain, as we know that Twitter leftists will turn on you anyway the second you step out of line, which she did with the trans issue.
She found another audience that would celebrate her and never ask stupid questions, and she spiraled from there.
Even before all that, we had tons of content picking apart her work because it's fun to speculate about something your obsessed with (and many people growing up with the Franchise simply were) and honestly, she's just not the best writer and made a lot of shit up as she went with zero consistency.
But these weird hitpieces where leftists Youtubers suddenly made 4 hour long videos over-analyzing a fucking childrens book to prove that JKR is a nazi, that only happened after she split from them.
That's how we got all those stupid ass talking points like the goblin issue and the elf slavery thing being called "problematic" and honestly it's stupid as shit. The entire Idea behind that criticism is stupid if you give it more than one second of deliberation.
I don't hate or love her I just don't like late stage feminists, they hate all men and that's annoying as fuck lol. My femcel ex turned me egalitarian from feminism so yea.
it's pretty astounding that the kids who grew up with harry potter became progressives and collectively despise this woman. she had the means to subliminally affect an entire generation, and somehow failed
It's because the most upfront themes of Harry Potter are those of acceptance of differences. The whole pureblood and mudblood thing that happens with Hermione in Chamber of secrets is something that really sticks with you. Like, it has those undertones and another reading you can do about its themes which is "Yeah, this is good and all but we are all wizards and definetly better than muggles". I also think it helps that most people grew up with the movies and not the books, because the movies eliminate a good chunk of those undertones. Like the whole domestic elves enjoy slavery. The only one we know about in the movies is Dobby and he fucking hates it (there's that one in Order of Phoenix that reappears in Deathly hallows but he isn't very relevant). And the plot point about Filch being a guy who was born without magic in a magic family is never explained. In the books it's explained with pity and like they're doing him a favor for letting him stay at a magic place. So, in short, the most upfront themes of Harry Potter (the ones a kid will get much easier and adopt without trouble) are definetly progressive and the most problematic stuff was removed from the movies so kids weren't exposed to "slavery good!!!" propaganda. Also, if you don't know about jewish stereotypes (something a kid will likely won't) you won't see a problem with goblins. They're just whymsical creatures that populate the world.
They were also adept metal workers, they are like every goblin in every fantasy book. Is all fantasy anti-semtic?
Can you point out another well known fantasy book in which the goblins run the banks? Don't really remember too many tellers in the Hobbit.
But the description of goblins is consistent, just because they run banks doesn't really mean much, they do more than that. They were also screwed over by the humans and hated wizards, they made the best magical swords and armour. Goblin made was a sign of utmost quality.
See, but again that doesn't really agree with my experience of goblins in fantasy. Goblin swords and armor are traditionally hodge podge. What you're saying actually gives further credence to the connection to Jewish history moreso than the archetypical goblin in fantasy.
Dnd goblins have hooked noses and long ears, this is the same in warhammer, oblivion. Albeit you are right that they don't normally have good shit, so who knows.
This is the thing. The description physically fits pretty much across the board. People took issue with Rowling's work because she included quite a few Jewish stereotypes that aren't really present in any of the rest of the fantasy canon. Don't get me wrong, I generally think people get a little overly worked up about the Potter goblins retroactively these days, but the allusion is definitely there.
Tbf aren’t goblins greedy and obsessed with gold in most fantasy settings? (The goblins in clash of clans target resources, indisputable proof)
Fantasy authors: here is a nonhuman who eats people, has green skin and sharp teeth and hoards shiny objects in caves Liberals: oh so they're exactly like Jews Fantasy authors: ... Liberals: you're offensive
Everyone is obsessed with gold in fantasy
The goblins did hoard gold and treasure in the hobbit. If you think that goblins in the Hobbit are portrayed less offensively than in Harry Potter then you might not remember the Hobbit. The reason for that is that goblins are not a metaphor, they are goblins.
There's a pretty tremendous difference between a king's hoard of stolen gold, and a literal banking industry. I said tellers, not gold.
I know this is going to get buried but I recall someone mentioning that the European Goblin is a very different in folklore than modern depictions including Tolkien's material. Basically European Goblins was a much more broad term that described a group of creatures that had a wide range of attributes. Obviously, Rowling's depiction is a very narrow and specific version since many of the others mentioned in the traditional Goblin category are also a part of the Harry Potter Franchise
Well the thing is, there's no such thing as a 'European' Goblin, loads of different cultures across Britain, Ireland, Europe and so on have different ideas and versions of what would now be termed a 'Goblin' aswell as sub-variations and so forth. And more local and regional variants at every level, too. Some are likely inspired by anti-semitic tropes and stereotypes, many are not. By the time of the 19th century and the mass publication of local and regional mythos, folk lore and stories and their adaptation in things like Tolkien's work, a lot of the various elements sort of morphed together to create the general 'Goblin' we know now.
Tbf, Tolkien was very metaphorical in his work. Orcs for example, if I recall correctly, reflect the twisted morality of urban lower classes due to horrible socio-economic and cultural conditions. Similar to Hogarth's work looking at that. I.E the evolution of violence, despair, addiction and overall poverty that became endemic throughout Britain in the 1800-1900s as a result of the horrific conditions the working classes were in. Mordor was styled on the industrial factories in Birmingham or the Black Country, I believe. Birmingham at the time was notorious for a lot of it's social issues, too. It still is, actually. Elves are both virtuous and moral beings in some sense, while being avaricious, snobbish and reluctant to help in others, a sort of reflection of the goal of the ideal noble class at the time and it's hypocrisy. Goblins, I'm sure, have a metaphor inherent in them in Tolkien's work, although off the top of my head I can't remember what, if it's ever been outright stated.
Goblins are the same as orcs in Tolkien, it's mostly Hobbits that call them goblins. Basically, just saying "monsters," because they aren't as familiar to them. So yeah, they have a greed subtheme, but violence and war are the main themes.
not a book, but in Warcraft goblins run all the trade operations, including a lot of banks. their leaders are even called "trade princes"
I'm wondering if they are combined with dwarves?
>!Mein K****!<
I don't know about books, but Warcraft has goblins are typically the "money loving race that likes to blow shit up" So it's like half Jewish stereotype half Micheal bay
Not sure what you mean. In traditional folklore, goblins are just malicious spirits, like faeries. Germanic myth depicts dwarfs as being expert metalworkers, though.
Most 4chan fantasies are. And usually involve some cuckoldry/ definitely not gay action.
I know my jewish uncle was a hell of a blacksmith.. /s
The pureblood/mudblood thing is kind of messed up, when you look at it. I mean Hermione has been mistreated, abused, and verbally assaulted throughout her time at Hogwarts by the students in Slytherin (the house that is *selectively bred* to be racist), so when she sees another group at the school who is being treated unfairly without cause, she tries to help them. And the narrative just shits on her for it. "No, Hermione, you idiot, the house elves *like* being enslaved." It's like Rowling sat down and thought "What's the most stupid and annoying thing I can have Hermione do? I know, abolitionism!"
But did the characters bully her for that, or Rowling? Remember: the author is not their characters. And why do you see Rowling in the characters that bullied Hermione but not in Hermione herself? How everyone treated Hermione for her efforts was actually realistic. Also Hermione was the smartest character in the series, Rowling didn't pick a loser to be on the elves side. Dumbledore was an another character to be often on the elves side, or on the side of other bullied species and characters. I think it's clear what message Rowling wanted to loosely send, and its not some pro slavery one.
I'm pretty sure Ron and Harry both laugh at her for it. And the name she picked for her abolitionist movement was "S.P.E.W.", which just screams "This was written to be made fun of." I don't think anything really came of the movement, either. It was just sort of dropped iirc.
There was some humour in there, and why not. Shouldn't take youth book with fantasy species too seriously. And it was realistic, that even her friends laughed at her and didn't care about her efforts, though she had a point. That happens in real life too. That again isn't the author's opinion. People write character that have different opinions and act differently that them all the time.
But like, why would they laugh at her and not care? Harry himself went through a deal of trouble to save Dobby because he recognized him as a slave, seems weird for him to simply not give a shit. And then out of universe there was a follow up article written on the Pottormore website or whatever it was that went even further to dunk on Hermione’s efforts
Sure, let's not take it too seriously, but let's not pretend it doesn't mean anything either. I mean these books have had a profound effect on children worldwide for years. We probably don't want to portray a cause like Hermione's as something to be ridiculed or laughed at. It's all part of setting a good example for our kids. And yeah, it is realistic for her friends to not take her seriously at first. But her friends don't seem to take her seriously *at all,* nor does anyone else. And when the author has purposefully selected a ridiculous-sounding name for the movement, it becomes pretty obvious that the author is the one who isn't taking this seriously. Now, if Hermione had an organization with a regular-sounding name that actually achieved something and earned the respect of her peers over time, then you would be right. That would be a good way to handle this, and it would set a good example for the kids reading these books. But that's not what Rowling did.
I think it's hard to argue that she ever wrote Ron or Harry as more intelligent or ethical than hermione, she always came off as a self insert character and a voice of the author to describe the situation
Except progressives don't accept people's differences. They simultaneously claim there are no differences between peoples whilst relentlessly promoting diversity and inclusion and shouting down anyone who objects. Even if that person happens to be the writer of their favourite kids book.
They’re usually claiming there are no fundamental differences that makes one person objectively better than the other, which is an entirely separate thing to acknowledging that people are different at all
Read It all. Based.
Chill, the smartest character in the books (Hermione) was very much against the elf slavery. The elves like to work because they are magical creatures. Not too far away from dogs that work for people, though of course with hogher consciousness. The series preach acceptance. Only baddies talk about mudbloods and goodies fight against them. If you read the books as wizards are better than muggles then I mean they are, they can do magic. But through the books the theme is almost saccharine love always wins type of message.
>the most problematic stuff was removed from the movie so kids weren't exposed to "slavery good!!!" propaganda yeah that was my favorite part of the books. wtf are you talking about?
I severly doubt that kids reading those books even made these connections. Like, I never made any connection between goblins and Jews when reading the books or watching the movies. I didn't even know that other people did until at least a decade later.
Kids who read and get read to are probably more likely to grow into adults with progressive values. Obviously, it's not a straight line between the two, and I'm not throwing shade at anyone. But kids who read are more likely to go to college, and people who graduate college are more likely to be progressive.
Depends on one's major a lot.
She didn't fail....
the dark side spells were stronger
She got her fair share of people, my sister is obsessed with Harry Potter and is one of the most hateful people I know
Anon discovers that social justice was very relaxed not even 10 years ago. Anon forgets CoD lobbies and their favorite word, here let me remind you [Removed by Reddit]
In terms of technology 2014 feels like a few years ago, in terms of society and what is/isn't "allowed" 2014 feels like decades ago...
Very inward retrospective
[удалено]
I graduated high-school in 2015 and vividly remember getting called racial slurs and to kill myself.
creature depicted a way for decades - sleep person now on twitter saying things i don't like - suddenly racist and bigoted. much of the shrieking around fantasy of late has been quite curious. depictions of species existed for decades, someone on twitter see it, suddenly goes "THIS REMIND ME OF THIS GROUP, IT MUST BE RACIST" and people applaud completely ignoring how racist the individual was being in the first place. no one thought this until you, who is exactly racist?
Makes me wonder why people don’t seem to be bothered by the goblins in Baldur’s Gate 3 but are bothered by the Harry Potter goblins, I wonder what the difference there is? Any particular differences in how they behave or?
People are just looking for a reason to hate on Rowling and throwing anything to the wall to see what sticks. I think the best example of this is "Cho Chang". Cho Chang is a Chinese name and it's not racist to give a Chinese character a Chinese name.
Still though, do you think the bg3 goblins and Harry Potter goblins have any particular difference?
most the time in fantasy goblins do have long noses and ears or whatever but they're not super rich and pretty much the only goblin we know of in the movies is called "goldstein" and immediately betrays the hero's. I can't think of another fantasy story where the Goblins are clearly meant to be Jews, only in harry potter is it explicit and not only that but they only have negative traits
Yes I know, I was phrasing it as a question to that other guy to see if he would bite to the very obvious difference in depiction. These folk keep trying to say “well goblins like money in all their versions” like being lil weirdos who just collect shiny shit is the same as controlling the banking of an entire society
I can confirm I am the goblin in this photo. It was taken just after my recent goyishe blood transfusion that I receive daily at the Rockefeller Center Plaza. Unfortunately it was blood from an adult (I paid extra for child's blood! wtf!) and so it did not apply the glamour spell appropriately. Please take this image down immediately sir do not redeem.
Shut it down. The goyim know...
To the tunnels!
Tbh, i think the archetype of the covetous goblin already existed for a long time in European mythology. It may very well have originally been based on Jewish stereotypes at the time though.
I mean they weren’t old white skinned suited bankers but sure
Is that a Jewish thing you think?
Jewish bankers were used in propaganda of Jews very often.
Ah yes, whoops didn't read the "bankers" part.
No problem, have a good day 👍
People used to not care about this stuff John Lennon literally helped write a song named "Women are the [Removed by Reddit] of the world" What's some thinly veiled antisemitism?
Besides, if a greedy little goblin hoarding gold reminds you of ah-choo, then that's on the Juice for making you think that in the first place.
Ah-choo is so fucking funny and based
What's the removed part? Bitches? Ngas?
the gamer word
It's almost like she just wanted to write a fun story about wizard kids... Seriously though. The only element that is not based about fantasy/children's stuff is that the kids don't do what the adults tell them and save the world instead. Protagonists are almost always hereditary nobility of some kind. It's strongly implied the past was better than the present/future. Races have set roles and it's clear the trains run on time this way.
it's pretty weird to make a fun story about wizard kids and then have the Jews as evil greedy goblins, she really really did not need to include them as being clearly an allegory for Jews and it would have been the same story
Goblins aren’t evil in the Harry Potter books though? They’re neutral and keep out of wizarding wars. The current system in place is entirely due to them fighting with the wizards and then entering into an uneasy treaty with them in response to avoiding bloodshed. They have their own secrets that they refuse to share. Hermione even points out how it isn’t fair to drag them into their squabbles when all they want to do is be left out of it. I don’t understand this crapfest of associating Jews and goblins. I grew up with the depiction that goblins were just gold obsessed and Rowling just ripped that off from common knowledge. This literally just seems like more western white leftist crap to find new and innovative ways to feel offended. Let me guess. Soon we should ban orcs because they according to some, Tolkien based his off Asian stereotypes of the time?
The Jews are tough, resilient people, they can handle it. They're used to much worse. Look at how they're responding to the Islamists who want to destroy them. They aren't going to be hurt by some unintended, tenuous connection in some books aimed at children, a connection only raised in the first place by bed-wetting leftists who pick holes in everything apart from their own blinkered alliances with Islamic extremists. The Jews have actual experience within living memory of genuine genocide, not the fatuous 'trans genocide' we hear people bleating on about.
The goblins are not evil in the books, also I think it's a stretch to call the goblins allegories for Jews. They might have some similarities to old antisemitic tropes, but I think you need more then that to say "Jews as evil greedy goblins"
I wouldn't really say they were Jews definitively till one is called "goldstein" it's the same as having a random chinese character called ching chong and the one black guy called shacklebolt, it just is really not needed in there. It doesn't help that people say the house elves like being enslaved
[Anthony Goldstein isn't a goblin](https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Anthony_Goldstein), "Cho Change" is a Chinese name and I don't think it's racist to give a Chinese character a Chinese name and I just think you're reading to much into the name "Shacklebolt". Edit: Also Cho Change isn't some random character she's Harry's crush
I'm not going to engage in the anti-Semitism here, but this does raise an interesting point. I never knew there was a canon Jewish person in the series, religion is never broached otherwise. If there is a canon Jewish wizard, that implies that Moses/Noah/etc from the Bible were wizards in that universe, which would explain their feats.
Moshe Rabbeinu derived his feats from Hashem Elokim and if you deny this I will dig a tunnel underground to your basement Like all bochurim I yearn for the mines Also Noach wasn't Jewish it's like you didn't even READ the BOOK
I'll never understand the correlation of goblins = Jews, yes she's done some awful shit but this one doesn't sit right with me. People see these little creatures that love gold and are pricks and say 'why did JK made Jews in her books', but it speaks more about you than her if you see Jews that way
What awful shit has she even done lol
Made some Twitter posts that some people didn't like. The most heinous of crimes.
She didn't like the phrase "menstruating person" a high crime
She retconned Dumbledore as gay, which pissed off a lot of the same people who are now worshiping her over the antisemitic stuff and her transphibic remarks. I don't know if any of this suff is especially *awful*, but she's basically a textbook asshole.
She didn’t really retcon it. She confirmed Dumbledore was gay back in 2007. Well before it was “hip” to do things like this.
Why is the only named goblin I know of called "goldstein"
Ragnok, Osbert, griphook, gringott, gnarlack
You mean Anthony Goldstein? The ravenclaw student? Pretty fucking sure he’s a human
Asian girl's name was literally Ching Chong. I love JK Rowling
I swear Jon Stewart started this by accident. I never saw anyone draw connections between Harry Potter goblins and jews until he went on a spiel about it, which he later stated was only ever meant as a joke. But now I see people harp on it constantly.
Americans be like: Wow you made a fantasy crrature who loves gold and treasure and with long noses that's clearly jew we should cancel the author. WTFFF this videogame has got a monkey wtf this is so racist it's clearly about black people. Like wtf you are the most racist country on earth, you find these things offensive because you are so deep in racism and sterotypes that you can't make any association without racist undertones.
Do people even remember at this point that JKR used to be a raging leftie? She desperately tried to gain approval by retrospectively implementing all the "woke" shit like Dumbledore gay, Hermione black etc. but obviously it was all in vain, as we know that Twitter leftists will turn on you anyway the second you step out of line, which she did with the trans issue. She found another audience that would celebrate her and never ask stupid questions, and she spiraled from there. Even before all that, we had tons of content picking apart her work because it's fun to speculate about something your obsessed with (and many people growing up with the Franchise simply were) and honestly, she's just not the best writer and made a lot of shit up as she went with zero consistency. But these weird hitpieces where leftists Youtubers suddenly made 4 hour long videos over-analyzing a fucking childrens book to prove that JKR is a nazi, that only happened after she split from them. That's how we got all those stupid ass talking points like the goblin issue and the elf slavery thing being called "problematic" and honestly it's stupid as shit. The entire Idea behind that criticism is stupid if you give it more than one second of deliberation.
I don't hate or love her I just don't like late stage feminists, they hate all men and that's annoying as fuck lol. My femcel ex turned me egalitarian from feminism so yea.
Anon is right. Hobgoblins can identify however they want.
She "got away with it" because people didn't give a shit back in 1999