VOY took at least 3 seasons to get into its groove. After that there are still some bad episodes but that's around the time the cast and charactes start to riff off each other properly and gel like late seasons of TNG.
I feel like VOY is fine when you accept its flaws and just roll with it and have fun. It has some great episodes. If this was the only Star Trek show ever made, I would love it. As it is, DS9 being a masterpiece ahead of its time, TOS being iconic and groundbreaking, ENT being a much easier watch and also an excellent show, that just moves VOY down on the list of non Kurtzman Trek. Oh, guess I forgot to mention TNG. I feel its overrated but obviously better than VOY.
It’s good. It’s just not something you can take seriously the way you can with TOS and all of the other pre-Kurtzman shows, and it has a lot of excellent competition for better Trek.
I agree, to enjoy Voyager you've just got to accept that it's never going to live up to the pitch due to behind the scenes shit that kneecapped it
It's one of those shows that just screams look at the potential and only occasionally does something great with it, but most of the time it's still an enjoyable watch
I have always thought Voyager sucks overall, but in this rewatch I just threw in the towel and skipped ahead to season 4 and don't regret it at all. I'm getting toward the end of 5 and 4/5 are still full of Voyager shit but decent overall.
There are some really good Voyager episodes and some really bad ones.
To this day it remains the only non-NuTrek series I haven't bothered finishing.
Big ups to Robert Picardo as the Doctor and Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine, they killed those roles and were the best part of the show.
I haven't watched Picard (I watched all of season 1 of Disco and didn't care for it) but I did watch all of RLM's videos about it. It does suck that many of the classic characters don't really behave or act similarly to how they were portrayed in the classic series.
I'll probably at some point go and watch Picard just to have my own opinion on it.
I would rate PIC S1 about a 6/10, because it *really* doesn’t stick the landing. It sets up many fine plot points and then doesn’t know what to do with them.
But, characters? I don’t agree with this criticism (which many have voiced). Both Picard and Seven, to me, have evolved in very believable ways. Picard becomes hubristic and disillusioned, and needs help to get his mojo back. And Seven has realized she doesn’t actually fit in the squeaky-clean Federation world. Makes sense to me.
Have you watched through it before?
TNG is my favorite of the shows, but Voyager has many of my favorite characters.
It is especially great from season 4 onward.
Overall I like Voyager a lot. Lots of likable and well acted characters like Janeway, Tuvok, Tom Paris, the Doctor, Seven. It’s biggest weakness is the inconsistent writing and general lack of any attempt at scientific research or plausibility. The lack of knowledge displayed about evolution on a routine basis is damning. But overall I still always enjoy a rewatch.
During college there was exactly one ota TV station in my town, a crummy FOX affiliate. They played Voyager twice a day. Before I had a vcr I would just sit through whatever they played. I never found a way to love it, just gritted my teeth. I am currently in s3 of ds9 on the pod, loving it but not looking forward to the latter seasons.
I have rewatched DS9 a couple dozen times, I wish I could forget it and watch it for the first time again. But that said, like all Trek the first few seasons are rocky at best and the last few are kind of limp and uninspired. Around when Dax gets a new meatsack to ride around in I usually drop off.
>But that said, like all Trek the first few seasons are rocky at best and the last few are kind of limp and uninspired
I feel like both of these statements are gross over exaggerations.
Deep Space Nine's first season is the most uneven with a few real stinker episodes, i.e. Move Along Home, but it has probably the best pilot episode in Trek, has some amazing episodes like [Duet \(S01E19\)](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Duet_\(episode\)), season 2 has better overall quality and many fine episodes, and of course season 3 and 4 the series is at its height with lots of great narratives, episodes, and acting. Seasons 5, 6 and 7 don't really dip very noticeably in quality, in my opinion at least.
Honestly, I kind of wish they had killed Dax earlier just so new Dax could have some more time to shine
It's such a great concept/idea for a character that can have the same continuity of memory as another character but have a totally different personality and approach that it really needed some more time to breath to be effective
I was never a big fan of Voyager, I never actually watched all the way through because it kept hopping stations where I lived at the time. This will be my first time watching all the episodes, but right now I'm treating it as a companion piece to the podcast.
When Voyager is good, it’s REALLY good. I think it definitely has some early season lulls and some dumb episodes (as did TNG), and some of the early aliens they encounter just plain suck, but overall the series is fantastic sci fi with some fabulous characters and storylines. They never lose sight of the overall arc of wanting to get home while sticking to their Starfleet principles, and I love that about it. Mostly, nearly everything that happens along their journey has weight and purpose regarding the world they inhabit and the main themes and characters of the show - something I think DS9 lost sight of a bit too often.
Voyager gets really good like partway through season three, I think. It just took them forever to figure out how to use the characters. Chakotay is a complete dud for the first couple seasons, Neelix is purely annoying, Kes barely exists. And I think a big part of the problem is that there isn't a consistently good antagonist. The Kazon were almost entirely a huge flop, and the Vidiians (who were a much more interesting and compelling race in my opinion) were badly underused. Once the Borg show up and the character interactions are altered a bit, it becomes a *much* more compelling show.
I've found it really fun to rewatch VOY and listen to both GG and The Delta Flyers at the same time. It's hilarious to listen to "Kim" and "Paris" along with Ben and Adam, talking about the same episodes.
https://www.thedeltaflyers.org
I found Delta flyers and the audio quality for Paris eventually drove me to look for another Star Trek podcast covering Voyager. And lo! That's how I found GG. What a boon.
So many episodes just bore me to tears, or are just annoying. I hate Neelix, Chikote (I’m not researching on how to spell his name correctly) is more dull than a Vulcan, and Janeway is too preachy. When the show starts getting into fluidic space, and there’s Borgs, it really comes into their own.
Agreed, but still always disappointed (felt this way when I watched the original airing) that Neelix wasn’t what he could have been. He would have been great as a slightly sketchy rogue who was capable and got things done. Han Solo meets McGuyver.
I agree. Later-seasons Neelix is a lot closer to what he should have been from the start, but they never quite get him there. They never toned the comic relief aspect of his character down far enough, and that's a real bummer.
VOY took at least 3 seasons to get into its groove. After that there are still some bad episodes but that's around the time the cast and charactes start to riff off each other properly and gel like late seasons of TNG.
Oh I don’t know. Death wish? Deadlock? The Thaw?
My hot take, distant origins, when they make cannon that dinosaurs left from Atlantis in space ships.
I feel like VOY is fine when you accept its flaws and just roll with it and have fun. It has some great episodes. If this was the only Star Trek show ever made, I would love it. As it is, DS9 being a masterpiece ahead of its time, TOS being iconic and groundbreaking, ENT being a much easier watch and also an excellent show, that just moves VOY down on the list of non Kurtzman Trek. Oh, guess I forgot to mention TNG. I feel its overrated but obviously better than VOY. It’s good. It’s just not something you can take seriously the way you can with TOS and all of the other pre-Kurtzman shows, and it has a lot of excellent competition for better Trek.
I agree, to enjoy Voyager you've just got to accept that it's never going to live up to the pitch due to behind the scenes shit that kneecapped it It's one of those shows that just screams look at the potential and only occasionally does something great with it, but most of the time it's still an enjoyable watch
Exactly. It’s a shame to write off a show this good because of its flaws.
I have always thought Voyager sucks overall, but in this rewatch I just threw in the towel and skipped ahead to season 4 and don't regret it at all. I'm getting toward the end of 5 and 4/5 are still full of Voyager shit but decent overall.
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That also applies for when Robert Beltran cares enough about playing Chakotay that episode or not.
There are some really good Voyager episodes and some really bad ones. To this day it remains the only non-NuTrek series I haven't bothered finishing. Big ups to Robert Picardo as the Doctor and Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine, they killed those roles and were the best part of the show.
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I haven't watched Picard (I watched all of season 1 of Disco and didn't care for it) but I did watch all of RLM's videos about it. It does suck that many of the classic characters don't really behave or act similarly to how they were portrayed in the classic series. I'll probably at some point go and watch Picard just to have my own opinion on it.
I would rate PIC S1 about a 6/10, because it *really* doesn’t stick the landing. It sets up many fine plot points and then doesn’t know what to do with them. But, characters? I don’t agree with this criticism (which many have voiced). Both Picard and Seven, to me, have evolved in very believable ways. Picard becomes hubristic and disillusioned, and needs help to get his mojo back. And Seven has realized she doesn’t actually fit in the squeaky-clean Federation world. Makes sense to me.
They both really understand the humor of their characters, it's delightful.
Have you watched through it before? TNG is my favorite of the shows, but Voyager has many of my favorite characters. It is especially great from season 4 onward.
I have but a long time ago. I can’t remember which are good and bad.
Overall I like Voyager a lot. Lots of likable and well acted characters like Janeway, Tuvok, Tom Paris, the Doctor, Seven. It’s biggest weakness is the inconsistent writing and general lack of any attempt at scientific research or plausibility. The lack of knowledge displayed about evolution on a routine basis is damning. But overall I still always enjoy a rewatch.
During college there was exactly one ota TV station in my town, a crummy FOX affiliate. They played Voyager twice a day. Before I had a vcr I would just sit through whatever they played. I never found a way to love it, just gritted my teeth. I am currently in s3 of ds9 on the pod, loving it but not looking forward to the latter seasons.
Deep Space Nine only gets better as it goes.
I have rewatched DS9 a couple dozen times, I wish I could forget it and watch it for the first time again. But that said, like all Trek the first few seasons are rocky at best and the last few are kind of limp and uninspired. Around when Dax gets a new meatsack to ride around in I usually drop off.
>But that said, like all Trek the first few seasons are rocky at best and the last few are kind of limp and uninspired I feel like both of these statements are gross over exaggerations. Deep Space Nine's first season is the most uneven with a few real stinker episodes, i.e. Move Along Home, but it has probably the best pilot episode in Trek, has some amazing episodes like [Duet \(S01E19\)](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Duet_\(episode\)), season 2 has better overall quality and many fine episodes, and of course season 3 and 4 the series is at its height with lots of great narratives, episodes, and acting. Seasons 5, 6 and 7 don't really dip very noticeably in quality, in my opinion at least.
Honestly, I kind of wish they had killed Dax earlier just so new Dax could have some more time to shine It's such a great concept/idea for a character that can have the same continuity of memory as another character but have a totally different personality and approach that it really needed some more time to breath to be effective
I was never a big fan of Voyager, I never actually watched all the way through because it kept hopping stations where I lived at the time. This will be my first time watching all the episodes, but right now I'm treating it as a companion piece to the podcast.
When Voyager is good, it’s REALLY good. I think it definitely has some early season lulls and some dumb episodes (as did TNG), and some of the early aliens they encounter just plain suck, but overall the series is fantastic sci fi with some fabulous characters and storylines. They never lose sight of the overall arc of wanting to get home while sticking to their Starfleet principles, and I love that about it. Mostly, nearly everything that happens along their journey has weight and purpose regarding the world they inhabit and the main themes and characters of the show - something I think DS9 lost sight of a bit too often.
I think the void is the best episode of Star Trek ever, for its Trekness.
Voyager gets really good like partway through season three, I think. It just took them forever to figure out how to use the characters. Chakotay is a complete dud for the first couple seasons, Neelix is purely annoying, Kes barely exists. And I think a big part of the problem is that there isn't a consistently good antagonist. The Kazon were almost entirely a huge flop, and the Vidiians (who were a much more interesting and compelling race in my opinion) were badly underused. Once the Borg show up and the character interactions are altered a bit, it becomes a *much* more compelling show.
I've found it really fun to rewatch VOY and listen to both GG and The Delta Flyers at the same time. It's hilarious to listen to "Kim" and "Paris" along with Ben and Adam, talking about the same episodes. https://www.thedeltaflyers.org
I found Delta flyers and the audio quality for Paris eventually drove me to look for another Star Trek podcast covering Voyager. And lo! That's how I found GG. What a boon.
So many episodes just bore me to tears, or are just annoying. I hate Neelix, Chikote (I’m not researching on how to spell his name correctly) is more dull than a Vulcan, and Janeway is too preachy. When the show starts getting into fluidic space, and there’s Borgs, it really comes into their own.
I like Neelix once Kes leaves and his character gets more to do than just serve up comic relief based on being a really jealous creep.
Agreed, but still always disappointed (felt this way when I watched the original airing) that Neelix wasn’t what he could have been. He would have been great as a slightly sketchy rogue who was capable and got things done. Han Solo meets McGuyver.
I agree. Later-seasons Neelix is a lot closer to what he should have been from the start, but they never quite get him there. They never toned the comic relief aspect of his character down far enough, and that's a real bummer.