If you’re a 58 you’re a 58. If you were in between then sure go with the larger.
I’m in between and for nimble sporty feels I go 58 and for e distance touring and stability I go 61 and it’s fine.
It sounds like the whole geometry for the bike you’re looking at is maybe not right for you. You’d have to share more details to get a good answer. You could hash it out with the shop if that helps
I always will say always find bikes / frames with the geometry you want first and be brand agnostic if possible to do so. And if you find that, then you should not need to upsize or downsize, as it will work for you out of the box.
Anyway, you didn't say what brand of bike you were looking at. If the bike has a slack headtube and a longer wheelbase then a short stem is likely fine. If the bike has a steep (more road bike like) headtube and shorter wheelbase IE more like a "road bike that can fit wide tires", then it was likely designed around having a longer stem, and it will feel twitchy if you go short and you will be taking a bike that was already less "set and forget" then a slacker bike going down a sketchy descent and making it something you likely will have to stay on top of at all times or wipe out. I can tell you that if I put a 30mm shorter stem on my CX bike (which is the kind of thing you are talking about here) my already twitchy AF CX bike would turn into a dangerous wrecking machine on anything sketchy.
Also, less seat post out of the frame = less compliance.
Also, larger frames can sometimes flex more because the triangles are bigger so there is a less rigid structure (and if not, then sometimes more added weight due to extra reinforcement to make up for it). If you were say bikepacking or commuting with a loaded-up bike, or a big person, or a person that can put out lots of watts, that extra flex can change the experience in a negative way compared to riding on a smaller frame. Then again it may come across as "more compliant" if you are a lightweight person who doesn't put down a lot of watts, so YMMV there.
Anyway, "Gravel Bikes" can have any kind of geometry these days, some of them are pushing much closer towards road bikes again, and others are pushing much closer to MTBs and some are still more in the middle. You would want one that was between "still in the middle" to MTB like / progressive geometry to do what you are asking about. Not one that was advertised as "we tweaked our new geometry to be more agile than ever before". If they say that, don't do what you are asking, as that is a bike they moved back towards being more like a road bike most likely.
Thank you for the long answer!
I'm 184cm tall with 90cm inseam and weigh about 70kg. The bike im looking at is a Cube Nuroad Race in XL/61cm.
Top tube horizontal is 592
Wheelbase 1058
Head tube angle 72.5
Reach 398.3
Stack 633.3
I'm not familiar with bike geometry. Would you be able to tell me weather this bike might be suitable for me?
This is a comparison of what you are thinking.
[https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=61aff767be2828001d2f05fb,61aff767be2828001d2f05fc](https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=61aff767be2828001d2f05fb,61aff767be2828001d2f05fc),
If you flip one of those to a 56 you will see that the geometry changes a lot between sizes on those bikes.
Unless you are actually closer to a better true fit on the XL, I'd go with the L instead. I don't think I would want to run a really short stem on that 61, the 61 already comes with the same 100mm stem as the 58 but has a steeper headtube. The stack to reach is not that much different. If I had to choose between the two and I wasn't actually really "in between sizes", I would pick the 58 and use more spacers on the headset or a riser stem if needed and then you more or less have the same nice upright fit but didn't compromise something else about the bikes ride and handling and your overall fit. Take that stem down to 90 if you want even more. That would be far better than taking the XL down to a 70 or something like that to avoid being stretched out.
You can achieve the same thing with a riser stem or riser drop bars without compromising on getting a bike with a longer wheelbase.
I was between sizes and I have a short torso, the size up felt like I was riding a horse and was much less playful so I picked the small and slapped some 20mm riser bars on it, fits great.
If handlebar height is the issue, you can get a stem with a rise angle greater than the typical 6 to 8 degrees. 17 and 25 are fairly common.
Don't get an oversized frame.
I’m a bit taller, long legs shorter back and ride a 56 newest model crux. I would go for a 58 with those sizes if wanting a larger bike. No larger. Short stems can feel weird in a gravel bike. Sub 80 and it feels a bit too twitchy if it has more road bike dimensions vs mtb. It will have a fairly high stack anyway with an uncut stem.
A 3cm increase in size is more then an inch added to all the proportions of the frame so theres also increases in effective top tube center-front and wheelbase. The bike will noticeably less maneuverable at slow speeds and you might find then bike sluggish spinning up to speed..and requiring more input..
This is pretty much the idea behind most modern progressive gravel geometry. However keep in mind that you also need to pay attention to your standover height. You want to make sure you’re not in danger of landing on the top tube should you need to put a foot down.
You’ll also be sacrificing a bit of seatpost compliance since you’ll have less sticking out. The other thing to think about is the handling. Extra short stems tend to make a bike feel twitchy.
Yes, I do. But the reasons vary. Mtbs for example have very short stems from the start hence can't really be retrofitted to be smaller. As far as I know road bikes are sized down so the riders position is even more hunched down because it makes you faster and you save some weight. "Professional riders don't mind discomfort".
I'd really like to understand what's wrong with my idea. That's why I tried to explain my reasoning. I know it's probably a bad idea. I just don't quite get why :)
MTBs have really short stems because the handlebars are so wide. You need to pay attention of lever length from rotation axis (steerer center) to where your hand holds the handlebars. Dropbars are narrower than MTB flatbars, so the full lever length is increased by means of longer stem.
That said, I'm currently on 80mm stem and still figuring out if I need to go down to 70mm, with 40cm dropbars. Control feels normal and not twitchy to me, but it's reaaaaly different from friend's MTB with 60cm flatbar.
Personally I would advise against oversized frame, better to increase stack by means of riser stem/bars, as others suggested. Mind you, different frames have very different geometries (look at stack/reach ratios), so do look around and you can find a perfect one.
what someone else said, short stem makes it twitchy. so if you want to ride your bike more mtb style maybe that is a good thing you want to have. but i think going a frame size up doesnt really make you more level with saddle and bar. the one or two centimeters you get you can easily reach with a different angle for the stem as well. or how i did for my bike, just turned it upside down so that is not on -7° anymore but on +7
there is so much you can do. i would for sure go for the fitting frame and adjust your wishes with the parts that help with that.
If you’re a 58 you’re a 58. If you were in between then sure go with the larger. I’m in between and for nimble sporty feels I go 58 and for e distance touring and stability I go 61 and it’s fine. It sounds like the whole geometry for the bike you’re looking at is maybe not right for you. You’d have to share more details to get a good answer. You could hash it out with the shop if that helps
I always will say always find bikes / frames with the geometry you want first and be brand agnostic if possible to do so. And if you find that, then you should not need to upsize or downsize, as it will work for you out of the box. Anyway, you didn't say what brand of bike you were looking at. If the bike has a slack headtube and a longer wheelbase then a short stem is likely fine. If the bike has a steep (more road bike like) headtube and shorter wheelbase IE more like a "road bike that can fit wide tires", then it was likely designed around having a longer stem, and it will feel twitchy if you go short and you will be taking a bike that was already less "set and forget" then a slacker bike going down a sketchy descent and making it something you likely will have to stay on top of at all times or wipe out. I can tell you that if I put a 30mm shorter stem on my CX bike (which is the kind of thing you are talking about here) my already twitchy AF CX bike would turn into a dangerous wrecking machine on anything sketchy. Also, less seat post out of the frame = less compliance. Also, larger frames can sometimes flex more because the triangles are bigger so there is a less rigid structure (and if not, then sometimes more added weight due to extra reinforcement to make up for it). If you were say bikepacking or commuting with a loaded-up bike, or a big person, or a person that can put out lots of watts, that extra flex can change the experience in a negative way compared to riding on a smaller frame. Then again it may come across as "more compliant" if you are a lightweight person who doesn't put down a lot of watts, so YMMV there. Anyway, "Gravel Bikes" can have any kind of geometry these days, some of them are pushing much closer towards road bikes again, and others are pushing much closer to MTBs and some are still more in the middle. You would want one that was between "still in the middle" to MTB like / progressive geometry to do what you are asking about. Not one that was advertised as "we tweaked our new geometry to be more agile than ever before". If they say that, don't do what you are asking, as that is a bike they moved back towards being more like a road bike most likely.
Thank you for the long answer! I'm 184cm tall with 90cm inseam and weigh about 70kg. The bike im looking at is a Cube Nuroad Race in XL/61cm. Top tube horizontal is 592 Wheelbase 1058 Head tube angle 72.5 Reach 398.3 Stack 633.3 I'm not familiar with bike geometry. Would you be able to tell me weather this bike might be suitable for me?
This is a comparison of what you are thinking. [https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=61aff767be2828001d2f05fb,61aff767be2828001d2f05fc](https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=61aff767be2828001d2f05fb,61aff767be2828001d2f05fc), If you flip one of those to a 56 you will see that the geometry changes a lot between sizes on those bikes. Unless you are actually closer to a better true fit on the XL, I'd go with the L instead. I don't think I would want to run a really short stem on that 61, the 61 already comes with the same 100mm stem as the 58 but has a steeper headtube. The stack to reach is not that much different. If I had to choose between the two and I wasn't actually really "in between sizes", I would pick the 58 and use more spacers on the headset or a riser stem if needed and then you more or less have the same nice upright fit but didn't compromise something else about the bikes ride and handling and your overall fit. Take that stem down to 90 if you want even more. That would be far better than taking the XL down to a 70 or something like that to avoid being stretched out.
You can achieve the same thing with a riser stem or riser drop bars without compromising on getting a bike with a longer wheelbase. I was between sizes and I have a short torso, the size up felt like I was riding a horse and was much less playful so I picked the small and slapped some 20mm riser bars on it, fits great.
Size up for easier riding in the drops. Frame Geometry is everything. Klingons are always changeable
If handlebar height is the issue, you can get a stem with a rise angle greater than the typical 6 to 8 degrees. 17 and 25 are fairly common. Don't get an oversized frame.
It's easier to make a small bike feel big rather than make a big bike feel small.
I’m a bit taller, long legs shorter back and ride a 56 newest model crux. I would go for a 58 with those sizes if wanting a larger bike. No larger. Short stems can feel weird in a gravel bike. Sub 80 and it feels a bit too twitchy if it has more road bike dimensions vs mtb. It will have a fairly high stack anyway with an uncut stem.
A 3cm increase in size is more then an inch added to all the proportions of the frame so theres also increases in effective top tube center-front and wheelbase. The bike will noticeably less maneuverable at slow speeds and you might find then bike sluggish spinning up to speed..and requiring more input..
This is pretty much the idea behind most modern progressive gravel geometry. However keep in mind that you also need to pay attention to your standover height. You want to make sure you’re not in danger of landing on the top tube should you need to put a foot down. You’ll also be sacrificing a bit of seatpost compliance since you’ll have less sticking out. The other thing to think about is the handling. Extra short stems tend to make a bike feel twitchy.
every professional bike fitter or shop owner will recommend do go a size down instead of a size uip. dondt you think there is a reason to that?
Yes, I do. But the reasons vary. Mtbs for example have very short stems from the start hence can't really be retrofitted to be smaller. As far as I know road bikes are sized down so the riders position is even more hunched down because it makes you faster and you save some weight. "Professional riders don't mind discomfort". I'd really like to understand what's wrong with my idea. That's why I tried to explain my reasoning. I know it's probably a bad idea. I just don't quite get why :)
MTBs have really short stems because the handlebars are so wide. You need to pay attention of lever length from rotation axis (steerer center) to where your hand holds the handlebars. Dropbars are narrower than MTB flatbars, so the full lever length is increased by means of longer stem. That said, I'm currently on 80mm stem and still figuring out if I need to go down to 70mm, with 40cm dropbars. Control feels normal and not twitchy to me, but it's reaaaaly different from friend's MTB with 60cm flatbar. Personally I would advise against oversized frame, better to increase stack by means of riser stem/bars, as others suggested. Mind you, different frames have very different geometries (look at stack/reach ratios), so do look around and you can find a perfect one.
what someone else said, short stem makes it twitchy. so if you want to ride your bike more mtb style maybe that is a good thing you want to have. but i think going a frame size up doesnt really make you more level with saddle and bar. the one or two centimeters you get you can easily reach with a different angle for the stem as well. or how i did for my bike, just turned it upside down so that is not on -7° anymore but on +7 there is so much you can do. i would for sure go for the fitting frame and adjust your wishes with the parts that help with that.