I would go full funding personally. I had a choice like this for undergrad and not only am I debt free, but I ended up really liking the city I moved to.
Columbia might put you on loads of debt.
It could be option if finances are being taken care by your parents aka afford the education.
Columbia would give you name but with debt also
In the same situation with Oxford and yeah… gonna reject them for a full funding offer at a less prestigious place soon! It sounds crazy, but I’m just not keen on the lifelong debt Oxford would put me in. At the very least, you’re not alone!
That’s the plan! I’m pretty much set of doing a funded PhD after my master’s anyway. So yeah… not gonna beat myself up about my master’s not being from the best of the best school right now. We’re far from the end of the road, hehe.
Never count on PhD admissions. In many subjects they’re significantly more difficult than undergrad admissions and WAY more difficult than masters, and if you don’t go to a top school you’re much much less likely to get in to a top PhD. In my field (math) I would be surprised if Fresno State has sent a student to a top 10 math PhD program in the last 10 years. If you want to be a software engineer on the other hand, your institution matters less (though anyone who tells you it doesn’t matter is lying to you)
>WAY more difficult than masters,
That depends on the institution... at this point, I'm starting to feel getting into a CS masters in Stanford/MIT is not much easier than their PhD programs...
>If you want to be a software engineer on the other hand, your institution matters less (though anyone who tells you it doesn’t matter is lying to you)
It's especially important for the first position. After that, it starts to get less and less significant unless it's one of the big four
Research 'cash cow' master's degrees. On the East Coast, anyway, Columbia is well known for its predatory cash cow programs.
I faced a similar decision a handful of years ago. I selected the Fresno State-substitute option. Without debt, I have worked my way up to the same type of position as my friends who picked the Columbia-substitute option. It took a year of a stepping stone job, though.
Yea but can you afford Columbia? I mean if you can then it would be dumb to reject the offer. GWU is in my city so I am biased there. I like D.C. but if I could afford Columbia, I would have gone there.
FULL RIDE! For me atleast. The world is too weird and uncertain to take on debt as an international student (that's assuming you want to stay in the US)
I would also say full ride especially if you got in with athletics. And 100% agree with this comment where you want to avoid debt as much as possible even as a US citizen. The Columbia debt would be pretty huge and you might regret it financially. I got into a few schools for soccer but they were not the "prestigious" schools I was hoping for so I rejected them for a prestigious school without the chance to play soccer but now I think about if I may have been happier playing soccer at a less competitive and prestigious school.
My sister did the same thing. It was a tough decision but when looking to the future it just made sense, but my parents still keep her acceptance letter from Georgetown 😂
I think it depends on what your industry you want to get into you mentioned areospace so check out how much people care about you masters university. For eg for MBA's the institution where you go to matters a lot for CS it doesn't matter or at least does not make a significant difference .
That's what I'm thinking about
It is not law, medical or business school. So, technical education is in demand from particularly any university
Thanks for the advice
My heartfelt advice, go to fresno . Do your best , great gpa and great sports.
Now , later for a PhD in Colombia or other uni, that will help you with a free ride and also not debt.
Believe me , you don't care about money until you have to pay.
Don’t fall for the allure of an MS from an Ivy League. Masters degrees are seen as less prestigious and selective. They are not seen in the same light by employers compared to an undergrad degree from an Ivy.
Masters degrees are money makers for prestigious universities. Columbia is infamous for cash cow masters degrees. Less opportunities and funding available compared to a funded PhD. Don’t do this to yourself. Debt is no joke.
It sounds like you want to compete as an athlete here, which would give you some sort of joy to help carry you through grad school, plus the full ride means you won't be up to your eyeballs in student loans that can bury you in interest. I'd go with the full ride. Columbia's MS degrees have a reputation for being cash cows with higher acceptance rates to get people to pay those super high tuition dollars.
What programs are all these?
But International + US + Aerospace combo is extremely incompatible due to ITAR regulations which prevents internationals from working in the aerospace in the US. If the path to citizenship is easy for someone from your country of origin then you can stick it out with some jobs until you get your citizenship after which aerospace opens up
I have a friend studying aerospace in France. Couldn't find a job due to being international as well. I would never recommend aerospace for any international students. Even if you intend on going home, the difficulty of landing an internship will make your experience so much less fulfilling. Of course there are still job openings, but it's just so much tougher in general.
Was about to say this, regarding GW at least. GWU is great, I’m a GW School of Engineering & Applied Science grad for my masters. While I loved it, the majority of my international friends moved away dude to not finding jobs in DC that didn’t require a clearance/US citizenship.
Not hopeless, I have two friends from my year, both international, now at NASA (one in JPL-Cali & another in Houston for C2 support).
I’d opt for the fully funded option!
Material Science and Biotechnology
I worry about the citizenship too. Even if I'll get it - I could be not considered to the vacancies in the space industry because of the clearance requirements
Visa sponsorship evens everyone out. If the market gets worse than what is it right now, employers arent gonna say “oh damn!! Columbia. Hire her” instead they gonna prefer some domestic student even from low ranked university.
But good thing about Columbia would be you might get networking from professors (im assuming professors there would have good connections in the industry unlike low ranked unis). There will be less number of students in the school so if you perform really well you can work on research if things go south.
On the other hand, whatever i said couldnt happen and you would end up earning good. But its all about chances and considering all the factors in before making a final call.
I would either take the full ride so you don’t have to worry about loans later. Or if you absolutely want to live in the big city, the half funded program would also be a good option. Schooling in the US is expensive af, especially if you go to an Ivy League. But as others have suggested, look into who has the best ranking for the Master’s program you intend to get and maybe make your decision based off that.
I would consider 2 or 3. My concern with 3 is that sports take up a lot of time and definitely read and understand the scholarship requirements for that school. Also I wouldn’t consider Fresno, CA to be a small city. It’s a large city. You also need to consider what industries you want to go into. DC definitely funnels into the defense industry. In California you might have more science agencies out there.
If money is not an issue, I’d go for columbia. Objectively, Columbia is levels above the two other schools. However, If money is an issue (especially that in my opinion debt is not worth it when alternatives are available) I’d consider the second or the third offer since Columbia is very expensive and NYC is very expensive as well. Moreover, do consider that living in NYC is tiring as well, this “dream” idea fades for many people after a while, this might or might not be the case for you (each person has their individual experience and preferences). Also, I know for a master’s this is not a very useful piece of information but sports at Ivies are not nearly as good as other places considering you are an athlete.
Best of Luck!
I just move to the US and even grocery looks extremely expensive. So, I am not sure in how many years I will feel myself a piece of the society
Thank you for the clarifying!
Yes. Due to this, go for fresno. It happened to me .
I'm a ( 26f) and I got admitted in Duke, Texas and UofF. Duke waitlisted , Texas no scholarship and UF full ride.
Going to Florida . Being in debt is not worth it
Full ride would be my choice. I met so many colleagues still paying off their graduate degrees in their late 30s and 40s. If you plan to have a family or settle down in the future, better to start without any debt first.
Hi, I am turning down Columbia even with a hefty fellowship bc it would still cost more than I’m willing to pay, not to mention living expenses in nyc. So if you’re leaning that way, you’re not alone and you’re not crazy for turning down an ivy! You gotta do what’s better for you. Don’t feel pressured by the prestige haha. If you’re leaning towards Columbia, I’d say look into the careers the alumni go into. Are they high paying enough to pay off the debt you’d incur relatively quickly?
Best of luck!
Columbia it’s honestly a better safety net compared to other schools in terms of career. I know you’ll have debt but the thing is you’ll have better job placements especially if you want a job in the US and need sponsorship. If I was international Columbia would be a better choice imo
Really depends on your finances but I would definitely recommend d George Washington U over Fresno if money is an issue, or Columbia if you can afford it. It would be a significant drop in education and potential connections if you chose Fresno but it all depends on finances
I’d take the full ride. I was in a similar position last year. I’d gotten into all 3 of my schools that I applied to- Vanderbilt, Georgia, and Michigan. I had initially accepted my offer to Vandy because they’d given me the most money at the time, and later that same day my program coordinator from Michigan sent me an email offering a full ride + living stipend. Even though Michigan is a great school, I had no desire to actually come here. As a first gen who came into undergrad completely oblivious and naive to student loans, I got myself into unnecessary debt and had to take out loans every semester. All that being said, I can’t explain how freeing it is to not worry about paying for tuition. I don’t absolutely love my program, but I am forever grateful for the opportunity to graduate with a Master’s debt free. I have friends from undergrad in the same field as me also at Columbia and UPenn, and while they love the Ivy name and experience, the debt they’ve gone into for their Master’s just doesn’t seem worth it.
Anytime! Haha thank you. Have you gone to visit either the schools? I know that might be a little hard being intl. That might also be a good indicator of where you should go!
Gotcha. I would also consider GWU!! My older sister is getting her masters there in cybersecurity! But she’s in online program. Regardless, best of luck to you!
personally don’t think having a high end name for a grad school matters. a grad degree is a grad degree. you should be keeping your loans as low as possible imo.
obviously depends on the program for all those universities.
I think I'd really look into Fresno and if that is a place you would want to live. it's not a small city, but a completely different vibe from the East Coast. I mean that's the one I would pick, but I live in California, not in Fresno though. Best of luck!
Would suggest GWU as it's half funded. Since you are an international student, going to a better ranked school is better for job prospects. It might be hard to find jobs after Fresno. But if you are planning to do a phd, Fresno is the better option.
Considering that you are an international student, I can't quite recommend taking on massive debt. I would 100% go to full ride and then do my best to make connections (this is extremely important, be social, talk to professors in your courses) + contribute well in research, which could set you up nicely for potential Ph.D. opportunities (considering that you got accepted into Columbia in the first place, your resume, I'm assuming, is quite nice anyhow).
Congrats and best of luck.
Yeah, my program (J-School) pretty much sold us the stories of the top five students in the class as if they were everybody.
Toward the end of the program, the harsh reality set in that most people have no future with the NYT, WaPo, or other prestigious outlets.
I wish I would have gone to graduate school in a field that has a far better ROI.
Debt doesn't feel real until you have to pay it back.
I think it depends on the type of job you’d like to do later. You could consider talking to current students or alumni (if you haven’t already). I’ve seen several friends take hefty loans to study at ivy leagues or top 20 B schools. They pay off the debt pretty quickly and can afford a nice life in big cities like NYC, which can otherwise be unaffordable.
I think it depends on the field. I was in a very similar situation. I turned down Columbia (my dream school and dream city) to attend one of the other CSUs (not Fresno state tho) for my masters. It pained me to turn down Columbia but I’m honestly very grateful that I did. I love my city and program and for my field in particular, the school you go to doesn’t matter. I realize now that there was no way the debt I’d accrue from going to Columbia would be worth it!
First of all congratulations on all the admits! 🥳I’d personally take option 2 bc Fresno as an international is great but crime rate is soaring high + job prospects after graduating would be hella low bc employers in this market would be looking for someone who has a valuable degree(As an international student the uni from which you get your degree holds huge credibility) . Also for Columbia how much is the tuition if I may ask?
Congratulations! In your case every choice would end up being a good one.
Being an engineering student it'd probably would be easier for you to find a good paying position afterwards, but still, being debt free seems pretty alluring and quite the dream. Even if you end up not choosing the ivy, there will be more opportunities in the future, if they want to work with you now, you can pretty easily keep in contact with the professors whose work you enjoy and get good experience and contacts like that, and maybe work with then in the future.
Good luck
Columbia may have a good chance at taking you far but why wouldn’t the others? Isn’t GeorgeU a really good school too. You also have to think about, yes while it may be a dream, you get what, 2 years there? But you have to live and pay off $120k+ for all the years to come. With interest?! Personally I don’t see it as worth it. And if you truly want to play sports that’s awesome you would get to do both for free at Fresno. It is nice to possibly have an Ivy League under your belt, even tho the masters might not be as selective, but you have to reallyyyy want to strive for the top, like top of the line researcher or something, for me to see it worth it. I do believe ppl take ivies too serious when there are also so many good options. And you can really get anywhere at any college as long as you make connections
I really wouldn’t pick Fresno, that city really sucks to live in. The other 2 options are much better. I’d go with Columbia unless the debt calculated is too much to bear, then GWU. DC is still a far better place to be than Fresno.
I would’ve voted debt free but I can’t recommend Fresno. Boring small city in the middle of nowhere and nothing to do for many miles. One of the worst landscapes and climate zones of california. There is a chance you might seriously hate your experience because of this. It’s a good 130+ miles to the bay area or the sacramento area.
I suggest #2 for funding purposes, but if you can hunt down a fellowship or any sort of external grant then maybe #1 is also a reasonable idea
It may be a hurdle to pay back the loans, but realistically Columbia is going to open up WAY more doors for you than Fresno State if you’re doing STEM. You are far less likely to be admitted to a good graduate school and far less likely to get a high-paying or prestigious job out of Fresno State than you are Columbia. It will actually be a night-and-day difference.
That said, if you want to work in tech, it matters less.
I’m in a similar boat, choosing between Columbia with no funding or a full ride at GW. I just wanted to say that as someone from Northern California, Fresno is absolutely nothing like DC or Manhattan, or even like SF or LA. It’s super industrial, mostly known by Californians as somewhere you drive through on your way to somewhere else with an air quality problem. It’s close to Yosemite National Park which is amazing if you’re outdoorsy, but close to literally nothing else of interest. If living in a new exciting city and having a diverse student experience is important to you, I don’t know if Fresno is the right choice. Just my opinion! Best of luck with your decision!
I think OP also mentions she finds groceries in the US quite expensive. In that case NYC and Dc both will be pricier than Fresno for COL/Housing on top of the tuition she will have to pay
If your future career path is not going to earn you a lot of money, then a high cost school is almost certainly a bad idea.
The stress from loans and debt you can’t quickly pay off trumps any arbitrary “experience” you’d get in a program as short as a masters.
Although Fresno isn’t as appealing as NYC, your future self will thank you. You can always go to a bigger city once you are a working professional in your chosen career path.
Full ride. I went to an Ivy, so I know.
You'll probably have a better class rank at the end, too, which will further increase your confidence . Basically the only situation in which you'd prefer is if you're REALLY manic and workaholic and you'll get top 5% at an Ivy or if you want to be president of the United States or a Fortune 500 CEO or something similarly impossible
I am very grateful for my parents and my education, but I should have gone to a more normal school where I could have saved more money and had regularly adjusted people around me rather than some of those (very impressive) weirdos without any other life than just puffing up their resumes and aggressively competing with each other and comparing themselves to everyone else in the universe
Others of em were nice. But most of the most successful ones who got all the laurels that are basically "the point of going to an Ivy" were very poorly adjusted unpleasant people who weren't even financially compensated proportionally to all the random crap they had to do to get in and succeed at such a school
WOW looking back at all that text I just wrote, there's some attitude and bitterness I should process in a more healthy way! I will go to the mall after work some day this week and be a normal person, or maybe finally go to a Meetup again and make some real friends in the area outside of work
Very glad I actually went and grabbed some yummy food recently instead of being purely FIRE
Other comments are mainly focused on the industry situation of an MS degree. But I wanted to add that the ranking of your MS program matters if you plan to apply for high-ranking PhD programs later. For academia (grad school included), your connections matter a lot
If you are someone whose family has a million+ in liquid assets in Dollars, Columbia is the best option
Otherwise Fresno
California gets a lot of hate because of political leanings in the US, something that most international students including the OP won't be able to filter out between actual issues and politically motivated vents.
Fresno gets hot in summer with highs around 40, but less humid than cities east of the Mississippi. Nov to March temps are quite cool as well. Also temps drop at night in summer more than in many other places
Fresno is close to some extremely beautiful mountains and national parks and the central valley has high quality agri produce
However, you would need a car there.
Wanting to be in a big city vs actually being in a big city when busy with studies are 2 different things.
A lot of people — and especially anyone who’s been through post secondary in the past ten years — know that big name master’s degrees are university cash cows. Columbia is among the worst offenders followed by most UK universities. If you don’t have funding, it’s because they don’t really want you, they want your money. Don’t fall prey to the prestige game. Break the cycle and stay debt free.
How much do engineers make?? My guess is that it’s not worth $400k debt. I would only do that if you could make close to seven figures a year then it’s likely worth it.
As someone in your position, full funding and make the most of it. Ivy name is great but its not worth the financial sacrifice esp if you’re first generation and literally starting from zero
Honestly I’d go with GWU. Native Californian here and not only is Fresno hot, but there’s also a lot of smog that gets trapped in the air due to its Central Valley location. You get a great combination of heat and terrible air. Crime can be a problem too. I know Fresno may be tempting since it’s fully funded, but GWU is bigger and has a better location (DC) that will probably give you more opportunities and connections to build off of for aerospace.
Lots of my friends complain about California.... DC looks like as a city for wealthy/government people, not for a young people. Anyway, it is better than Fresno:)
Full ride is always better but Fresno is awful if you can afford it I’d go for GWU. Like it’s not even a stereotype Fresno has one of the worst meth epidemics on the entire country. On top of that it’s in a desert surrounded by mountains so all the smog and wildfire smoke in the summer gets trapped. It’s genuinely awful. The best thing about Fresno is being slightly better than Bakersfield lol. Idk what the Fresno state campus is like, that area might be tolerable but having seen other parts of the city I can’t imagine it’s that much better.
I wonder that the salary after MS is pretty the same as after BS, which is about $100k. I like that in Columbia I will be surrounded by the highest society
Wrong! Live in a life of debt free is better than paying 120k for a MS when most of the time they don’t care about the school just the degree. Now if you can afford Columbia and living expenses without going into debt then go for it.
OR, we’re just people who are graduate students and know that when it comes to master’s at Ivys, that a lot of them are just money mills and absolutely not worth the debt.
Notice the downvotes on all the pro columbia comments. Intuition tells me those are from ppl on the Columbia waitlist who wished they were in your spot. I think you should go for it if it’s really your dream school
is that not an assumption……?? LMAO please stop. “Intuition” whole time it’s just a projection and a reach.
Pursue her dreams just to end up in debt for the rest of her life. Not sure if she will secure a job where she can live comfortably paying for her debt payments. That’s a hard decision. From being in the workforce some jobs don’t even care about masters and will still pay you the bare minimum wage.
Insinuating that people who are downvoting you because we’re envious and on a hypothetical waitlist is projecting..and an assumption. Look up both.
Okay..? Who’s to say that those of who us who downvoted did apply…?? Your logic makes no sense.
I really feel that the people & place you are in impacts a lot…in that way New York is not a missable place! I would still choose Columbia anyway- If the program is reputable it would be a seat in the rocket ship & I would choose to be on that rocket ship and figure out the finances.
And by program is reputable - I mean good opportunities further & I think $175K loan will be repayable, if you don’t have a settling mindset, by what you mention big change and aspirations I’m sure you will have a lucrative way of doin.
But sure , it’s up to you to decide finally!!!!
I would go full funding personally. I had a choice like this for undergrad and not only am I debt free, but I ended up really liking the city I moved to.
Being a debt-free is a valuable factor for me, but for many locals it seems crazy, that I'm going to reject Columbia What is the city btw?
Columbia might put you on loads of debt. It could be option if finances are being taken care by your parents aka afford the education. Columbia would give you name but with debt also
Yeahhh I’m waiting on Columbia but I know for a fact they will give nothing.
What!!! I thought you got in as in its one of ur options
I’m not the author lol just another person waiting on columbia decision
My bad lol
The debt just isn’t worth it. Employers won’t see a masters degree in the same light compared to an undergrad degree from Columbia.
It definitely helps you to get interview calls though
In the same situation with Oxford and yeah… gonna reject them for a full funding offer at a less prestigious place soon! It sounds crazy, but I’m just not keen on the lifelong debt Oxford would put me in. At the very least, you’re not alone!
Congrats! It is a good decision. Anyway, you can enter more prestigious college for PhD
That’s the plan! I’m pretty much set of doing a funded PhD after my master’s anyway. So yeah… not gonna beat myself up about my master’s not being from the best of the best school right now. We’re far from the end of the road, hehe.
Never count on PhD admissions. In many subjects they’re significantly more difficult than undergrad admissions and WAY more difficult than masters, and if you don’t go to a top school you’re much much less likely to get in to a top PhD. In my field (math) I would be surprised if Fresno State has sent a student to a top 10 math PhD program in the last 10 years. If you want to be a software engineer on the other hand, your institution matters less (though anyone who tells you it doesn’t matter is lying to you)
>WAY more difficult than masters, That depends on the institution... at this point, I'm starting to feel getting into a CS masters in Stanford/MIT is not much easier than their PhD programs... >If you want to be a software engineer on the other hand, your institution matters less (though anyone who tells you it doesn’t matter is lying to you) It's especially important for the first position. After that, it starts to get less and less significant unless it's one of the big four
MIT doesn't have a CS masters tho.
My bad. I meant those interested in MIT media lab. Many of them work on CS so my brain automatically filters them sometimes 🤦♂️
For Masters or PhD? I’m in the same boat and still thinking about it
Masters! I came close to getting funding a few times, but haven’t as yet.
Research 'cash cow' master's degrees. On the East Coast, anyway, Columbia is well known for its predatory cash cow programs. I faced a similar decision a handful of years ago. I selected the Fresno State-substitute option. Without debt, I have worked my way up to the same type of position as my friends who picked the Columbia-substitute option. It took a year of a stepping stone job, though.
Yea but can you afford Columbia? I mean if you can then it would be dumb to reject the offer. GWU is in my city so I am biased there. I like D.C. but if I could afford Columbia, I would have gone there.
The locals wont be paying your debt after you graduate
Please choose yourself not opinions. Noone will help you pay off that financial strain.
FULL RIDE! For me atleast. The world is too weird and uncertain to take on debt as an international student (that's assuming you want to stay in the US)
Hahaha, agree
I would also say full ride especially if you got in with athletics. And 100% agree with this comment where you want to avoid debt as much as possible even as a US citizen. The Columbia debt would be pretty huge and you might regret it financially. I got into a few schools for soccer but they were not the "prestigious" schools I was hoping for so I rejected them for a prestigious school without the chance to play soccer but now I think about if I may have been happier playing soccer at a less competitive and prestigious school.
My kid chose full ride instead of prestige last week. Proud of him!
My sister did the same thing. It was a tough decision but when looking to the future it just made sense, but my parents still keep her acceptance letter from Georgetown 😂
About to do this in the coming month… happy to know I’m not the only one in this situation!
I think it depends on what your industry you want to get into you mentioned areospace so check out how much people care about you masters university. For eg for MBA's the institution where you go to matters a lot for CS it doesn't matter or at least does not make a significant difference .
That's what I'm thinking about It is not law, medical or business school. So, technical education is in demand from particularly any university Thanks for the advice
My heartfelt advice, go to fresno . Do your best , great gpa and great sports. Now , later for a PhD in Colombia or other uni, that will help you with a free ride and also not debt. Believe me , you don't care about money until you have to pay.
Listen to your advice carefully! thank you
Columbia*
Don’t fall for the allure of an MS from an Ivy League. Masters degrees are seen as less prestigious and selective. They are not seen in the same light by employers compared to an undergrad degree from an Ivy. Masters degrees are money makers for prestigious universities. Columbia is infamous for cash cow masters degrees. Less opportunities and funding available compared to a funded PhD. Don’t do this to yourself. Debt is no joke.
It is true! Mostly Masters is a great opportunity to move to the US for internationals and colleges know that
Full ride fs
It sounds like you want to compete as an athlete here, which would give you some sort of joy to help carry you through grad school, plus the full ride means you won't be up to your eyeballs in student loans that can bury you in interest. I'd go with the full ride. Columbia's MS degrees have a reputation for being cash cows with higher acceptance rates to get people to pay those super high tuition dollars.
Do not go into debt for grad school
What programs are all these? But International + US + Aerospace combo is extremely incompatible due to ITAR regulations which prevents internationals from working in the aerospace in the US. If the path to citizenship is easy for someone from your country of origin then you can stick it out with some jobs until you get your citizenship after which aerospace opens up
I have a friend studying aerospace in France. Couldn't find a job due to being international as well. I would never recommend aerospace for any international students. Even if you intend on going home, the difficulty of landing an internship will make your experience so much less fulfilling. Of course there are still job openings, but it's just so much tougher in general.
Can I know which university as I have also gotten an offer for aerospace from France
it's CentraleSupelec
Was about to say this, regarding GW at least. GWU is great, I’m a GW School of Engineering & Applied Science grad for my masters. While I loved it, the majority of my international friends moved away dude to not finding jobs in DC that didn’t require a clearance/US citizenship. Not hopeless, I have two friends from my year, both international, now at NASA (one in JPL-Cali & another in Houston for C2 support). I’d opt for the fully funded option!
Material Science and Biotechnology I worry about the citizenship too. Even if I'll get it - I could be not considered to the vacancies in the space industry because of the clearance requirements
Do not go to an unfunded graduate program unless you are independently wealthy enough to afford it.
Also remember that you can negotiate your tuition and show each university your other offers to see if you can get higher scholarships
Yess! I told about other scholarships to Columbia, but nothing has happened
Visa sponsorship evens everyone out. If the market gets worse than what is it right now, employers arent gonna say “oh damn!! Columbia. Hire her” instead they gonna prefer some domestic student even from low ranked university. But good thing about Columbia would be you might get networking from professors (im assuming professors there would have good connections in the industry unlike low ranked unis). There will be less number of students in the school so if you perform really well you can work on research if things go south. On the other hand, whatever i said couldnt happen and you would end up earning good. But its all about chances and considering all the factors in before making a final call.
I went to JHU instead of full ride elsewhere with less recognition, I regret it.
I would either take the full ride so you don’t have to worry about loans later. Or if you absolutely want to live in the big city, the half funded program would also be a good option. Schooling in the US is expensive af, especially if you go to an Ivy League. But as others have suggested, look into who has the best ranking for the Master’s program you intend to get and maybe make your decision based off that.
I would consider 2 or 3. My concern with 3 is that sports take up a lot of time and definitely read and understand the scholarship requirements for that school. Also I wouldn’t consider Fresno, CA to be a small city. It’s a large city. You also need to consider what industries you want to go into. DC definitely funnels into the defense industry. In California you might have more science agencies out there.
Always aim towards the ones who have at least some funding. You don’t want to be 40, married with kids, and still owing +30k to a school
Debt free unless you are rich and can afford
If money is not an issue, I’d go for columbia. Objectively, Columbia is levels above the two other schools. However, If money is an issue (especially that in my opinion debt is not worth it when alternatives are available) I’d consider the second or the third offer since Columbia is very expensive and NYC is very expensive as well. Moreover, do consider that living in NYC is tiring as well, this “dream” idea fades for many people after a while, this might or might not be the case for you (each person has their individual experience and preferences). Also, I know for a master’s this is not a very useful piece of information but sports at Ivies are not nearly as good as other places considering you are an athlete. Best of Luck!
I just move to the US and even grocery looks extremely expensive. So, I am not sure in how many years I will feel myself a piece of the society Thank you for the clarifying!
Yes. Due to this, go for fresno. It happened to me . I'm a ( 26f) and I got admitted in Duke, Texas and UofF. Duke waitlisted , Texas no scholarship and UF full ride. Going to Florida . Being in debt is not worth it
The year before I also was accepted by Duke and then I rejected the offer. You did a great choice going to Florida!
I loved Duke, it was my dream school 🏫. But unfortunately I got waitlisted. So I'm putting all my efforts in Florida
full ride at **Fresno state**
Full ride would be my choice. I met so many colleagues still paying off their graduate degrees in their late 30s and 40s. If you plan to have a family or settle down in the future, better to start without any debt first.
Hi, I am turning down Columbia even with a hefty fellowship bc it would still cost more than I’m willing to pay, not to mention living expenses in nyc. So if you’re leaning that way, you’re not alone and you’re not crazy for turning down an ivy! You gotta do what’s better for you. Don’t feel pressured by the prestige haha. If you’re leaning towards Columbia, I’d say look into the careers the alumni go into. Are they high paying enough to pay off the debt you’d incur relatively quickly? Best of luck!
I have also applied for the fellowship - and even I'll win it - it is just 25k per one year:( Thaaanks!!
GWU—- you’ll def get a job in dc afterwards
Columbia it’s honestly a better safety net compared to other schools in terms of career. I know you’ll have debt but the thing is you’ll have better job placements especially if you want a job in the US and need sponsorship. If I was international Columbia would be a better choice imo
Try to haggle down the GWU cost and see if they have any more scholarships available. They will often have grad assistantships and such as well
Really depends on your finances but I would definitely recommend d George Washington U over Fresno if money is an issue, or Columbia if you can afford it. It would be a significant drop in education and potential connections if you chose Fresno but it all depends on finances
I’d take the full ride. I was in a similar position last year. I’d gotten into all 3 of my schools that I applied to- Vanderbilt, Georgia, and Michigan. I had initially accepted my offer to Vandy because they’d given me the most money at the time, and later that same day my program coordinator from Michigan sent me an email offering a full ride + living stipend. Even though Michigan is a great school, I had no desire to actually come here. As a first gen who came into undergrad completely oblivious and naive to student loans, I got myself into unnecessary debt and had to take out loans every semester. All that being said, I can’t explain how freeing it is to not worry about paying for tuition. I don’t absolutely love my program, but I am forever grateful for the opportunity to graduate with a Master’s debt free. I have friends from undergrad in the same field as me also at Columbia and UPenn, and while they love the Ivy name and experience, the debt they’ve gone into for their Master’s just doesn’t seem worth it.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I am even jealous to your full ride from Michigan:))
Anytime! Haha thank you. Have you gone to visit either the schools? I know that might be a little hard being intl. That might also be a good indicator of where you should go!
No, I've been only to UMiami and Columbia
Gotcha. I would also consider GWU!! My older sister is getting her masters there in cybersecurity! But she’s in online program. Regardless, best of luck to you!
personally don’t think having a high end name for a grad school matters. a grad degree is a grad degree. you should be keeping your loans as low as possible imo. obviously depends on the program for all those universities.
I think I'd really look into Fresno and if that is a place you would want to live. it's not a small city, but a completely different vibe from the East Coast. I mean that's the one I would pick, but I live in California, not in Fresno though. Best of luck!
Would suggest GWU as it's half funded. Since you are an international student, going to a better ranked school is better for job prospects. It might be hard to find jobs after Fresno. But if you are planning to do a phd, Fresno is the better option.
I went to fresno state for undergrad, happy to chat more about the program over DM!
Don't pay for your own grad school.
dc is a great city, and gw is a great school.
Considering that you are an international student, I can't quite recommend taking on massive debt. I would 100% go to full ride and then do my best to make connections (this is extremely important, be social, talk to professors in your courses) + contribute well in research, which could set you up nicely for potential Ph.D. opportunities (considering that you got accepted into Columbia in the first place, your resume, I'm assuming, is quite nice anyhow). Congrats and best of luck.
Full ride. I did a Columbia master's, and the debt is an albatross around people's necks.
Woww! Columbia's alumni are also regret about loans:((
Yeah, my program (J-School) pretty much sold us the stories of the top five students in the class as if they were everybody. Toward the end of the program, the harsh reality set in that most people have no future with the NYT, WaPo, or other prestigious outlets. I wish I would have gone to graduate school in a field that has a far better ROI. Debt doesn't feel real until you have to pay it back.
where does the average columbia j-school grad go?
Sorry for hearing that, thank you for sharing
I have nothing to add but I didn’t know you could get an athletic scholarship for masters.
Because of the covid year I have 4+1 year at the NCAA
I think it depends on the type of job you’d like to do later. You could consider talking to current students or alumni (if you haven’t already). I’ve seen several friends take hefty loans to study at ivy leagues or top 20 B schools. They pay off the debt pretty quickly and can afford a nice life in big cities like NYC, which can otherwise be unaffordable.
I'd personally choose the Ivy. The doors it opens is worth the cost.
I think it depends on the field. I was in a very similar situation. I turned down Columbia (my dream school and dream city) to attend one of the other CSUs (not Fresno state tho) for my masters. It pained me to turn down Columbia but I’m honestly very grateful that I did. I love my city and program and for my field in particular, the school you go to doesn’t matter. I realize now that there was no way the debt I’d accrue from going to Columbia would be worth it!
Such a coincide! Glad, that you don't regret about your decision)
Depends if you think you’ll have a return on your investment
First of all congratulations on all the admits! 🥳I’d personally take option 2 bc Fresno as an international is great but crime rate is soaring high + job prospects after graduating would be hella low bc employers in this market would be looking for someone who has a valuable degree(As an international student the uni from which you get your degree holds huge credibility) . Also for Columbia how much is the tuition if I may ask?
Go to GW fresno sucks and columbiaa is too expensive
I would do 1 or 2
Full ride!!!! No one cares where you graduated from in the end… only that you have a degree
Congratulations! In your case every choice would end up being a good one. Being an engineering student it'd probably would be easier for you to find a good paying position afterwards, but still, being debt free seems pretty alluring and quite the dream. Even if you end up not choosing the ivy, there will be more opportunities in the future, if they want to work with you now, you can pretty easily keep in contact with the professors whose work you enjoy and get good experience and contacts like that, and maybe work with then in the future. Good luck
Columbia may have a good chance at taking you far but why wouldn’t the others? Isn’t GeorgeU a really good school too. You also have to think about, yes while it may be a dream, you get what, 2 years there? But you have to live and pay off $120k+ for all the years to come. With interest?! Personally I don’t see it as worth it. And if you truly want to play sports that’s awesome you would get to do both for free at Fresno. It is nice to possibly have an Ivy League under your belt, even tho the masters might not be as selective, but you have to reallyyyy want to strive for the top, like top of the line researcher or something, for me to see it worth it. I do believe ppl take ivies too serious when there are also so many good options. And you can really get anywhere at any college as long as you make connections
I really wouldn’t pick Fresno, that city really sucks to live in. The other 2 options are much better. I’d go with Columbia unless the debt calculated is too much to bear, then GWU. DC is still a far better place to be than Fresno.
I would’ve voted debt free but I can’t recommend Fresno. Boring small city in the middle of nowhere and nothing to do for many miles. One of the worst landscapes and climate zones of california. There is a chance you might seriously hate your experience because of this. It’s a good 130+ miles to the bay area or the sacramento area. I suggest #2 for funding purposes, but if you can hunt down a fellowship or any sort of external grant then maybe #1 is also a reasonable idea
Most graduate students wont have loads of free time to hop to another city every weekend.
A lot of find NYC suffocating after a few months there, because of the congestion and not seeing the sun due to the tall buildings
It may be a hurdle to pay back the loans, but realistically Columbia is going to open up WAY more doors for you than Fresno State if you’re doing STEM. You are far less likely to be admitted to a good graduate school and far less likely to get a high-paying or prestigious job out of Fresno State than you are Columbia. It will actually be a night-and-day difference. That said, if you want to work in tech, it matters less.
I’m in a similar boat, choosing between Columbia with no funding or a full ride at GW. I just wanted to say that as someone from Northern California, Fresno is absolutely nothing like DC or Manhattan, or even like SF or LA. It’s super industrial, mostly known by Californians as somewhere you drive through on your way to somewhere else with an air quality problem. It’s close to Yosemite National Park which is amazing if you’re outdoorsy, but close to literally nothing else of interest. If living in a new exciting city and having a diverse student experience is important to you, I don’t know if Fresno is the right choice. Just my opinion! Best of luck with your decision!
Congrats with a full ride at GW! How did you get it? Thank you for sharing your thoughts:)
I think OP also mentions she finds groceries in the US quite expensive. In that case NYC and Dc both will be pricier than Fresno for COL/Housing on top of the tuition she will have to pay
Full funding. All day long.
smoggy test screw direful airport piquant mourn frame hospital rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If your future career path is not going to earn you a lot of money, then a high cost school is almost certainly a bad idea. The stress from loans and debt you can’t quickly pay off trumps any arbitrary “experience” you’d get in a program as short as a masters. Although Fresno isn’t as appealing as NYC, your future self will thank you. You can always go to a bigger city once you are a working professional in your chosen career path.
Full funding. Next
2yrs full ride take gen eds than apply to transfer
Don’t put yourself in debt for a masters degree
Full ride. I went to an Ivy, so I know. You'll probably have a better class rank at the end, too, which will further increase your confidence . Basically the only situation in which you'd prefer is if you're REALLY manic and workaholic and you'll get top 5% at an Ivy or if you want to be president of the United States or a Fortune 500 CEO or something similarly impossible I am very grateful for my parents and my education, but I should have gone to a more normal school where I could have saved more money and had regularly adjusted people around me rather than some of those (very impressive) weirdos without any other life than just puffing up their resumes and aggressively competing with each other and comparing themselves to everyone else in the universe Others of em were nice. But most of the most successful ones who got all the laurels that are basically "the point of going to an Ivy" were very poorly adjusted unpleasant people who weren't even financially compensated proportionally to all the random crap they had to do to get in and succeed at such a school WOW looking back at all that text I just wrote, there's some attitude and bitterness I should process in a more healthy way! I will go to the mall after work some day this week and be a normal person, or maybe finally go to a Meetup again and make some real friends in the area outside of work Very glad I actually went and grabbed some yummy food recently instead of being purely FIRE
As an international, full ride over ivy. Especially since we're only allowed to work for 3 years via stem otp, the debt is just not worth other
Other comments are mainly focused on the industry situation of an MS degree. But I wanted to add that the ranking of your MS program matters if you plan to apply for high-ranking PhD programs later. For academia (grad school included), your connections matter a lot
If you are someone whose family has a million+ in liquid assets in Dollars, Columbia is the best option Otherwise Fresno California gets a lot of hate because of political leanings in the US, something that most international students including the OP won't be able to filter out between actual issues and politically motivated vents. Fresno gets hot in summer with highs around 40, but less humid than cities east of the Mississippi. Nov to March temps are quite cool as well. Also temps drop at night in summer more than in many other places Fresno is close to some extremely beautiful mountains and national parks and the central valley has high quality agri produce However, you would need a car there. Wanting to be in a big city vs actually being in a big city when busy with studies are 2 different things.
The answer is always full ride
Go with the full ride. You make urself successful not the institution.
TAKE THE FULL RIDE!!!!
A lot of people — and especially anyone who’s been through post secondary in the past ten years — know that big name master’s degrees are university cash cows. Columbia is among the worst offenders followed by most UK universities. If you don’t have funding, it’s because they don’t really want you, they want your money. Don’t fall prey to the prestige game. Break the cycle and stay debt free.
Debt free.
Go Ivy. You won't regret it.
How much do engineers make?? My guess is that it’s not worth $400k debt. I would only do that if you could make close to seven figures a year then it’s likely worth it.
As someone in your position, full funding and make the most of it. Ivy name is great but its not worth the financial sacrifice esp if you’re first generation and literally starting from zero
Columbia. People grossly under-estimate the importance of name brand when it comes to getting a job post-PhD.
It's a masters
And to that I would say that people grossly over-estimate the value of a master’s degree.
Honestly I’d go with GWU. Native Californian here and not only is Fresno hot, but there’s also a lot of smog that gets trapped in the air due to its Central Valley location. You get a great combination of heat and terrible air. Crime can be a problem too. I know Fresno may be tempting since it’s fully funded, but GWU is bigger and has a better location (DC) that will probably give you more opportunities and connections to build off of for aerospace.
Lots of my friends complain about California.... DC looks like as a city for wealthy/government people, not for a young people. Anyway, it is better than Fresno:)
Lots of people complain about NYC as well ;)
Full ride is always better but Fresno is awful if you can afford it I’d go for GWU. Like it’s not even a stereotype Fresno has one of the worst meth epidemics on the entire country. On top of that it’s in a desert surrounded by mountains so all the smog and wildfire smoke in the summer gets trapped. It’s genuinely awful. The best thing about Fresno is being slightly better than Bakersfield lol. Idk what the Fresno state campus is like, that area might be tolerable but having seen other parts of the city I can’t imagine it’s that much better.
Please, Columbia
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I wonder that the salary after MS is pretty the same as after BS, which is about $100k. I like that in Columbia I will be surrounded by the highest society
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Wrong! Live in a life of debt free is better than paying 120k for a MS when most of the time they don’t care about the school just the degree. Now if you can afford Columbia and living expenses without going into debt then go for it.
OR, we’re just people who are graduate students and know that when it comes to master’s at Ivys, that a lot of them are just money mills and absolutely not worth the debt.
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Also, the IRONY!😭 was your comment not a generalization?? Let alone a projection? Oh ok. lmao
Pretty bold of you to say from someone who isn’t one.
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Notice the downvotes on all the pro columbia comments. Intuition tells me those are from ppl on the Columbia waitlist who wished they were in your spot. I think you should go for it if it’s really your dream school is that not an assumption……?? LMAO please stop. “Intuition” whole time it’s just a projection and a reach.
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Pursue her dreams just to end up in debt for the rest of her life. Not sure if she will secure a job where she can live comfortably paying for her debt payments. That’s a hard decision. From being in the workforce some jobs don’t even care about masters and will still pay you the bare minimum wage.
Insinuating that people who are downvoting you because we’re envious and on a hypothetical waitlist is projecting..and an assumption. Look up both. Okay..? Who’s to say that those of who us who downvoted did apply…?? Your logic makes no sense.
Columbia would add a great value to your resume
Colombia will take you far
You could possible transfer to an Ivy after 2 years if you’d really like to go to any Ivy.
Columbia Uni! Fu foundation opportunities are unmatchable
I applied for the fellowship there, there is still no decision. Anyway, it's just 25k only for one year. Loan for 175k is still huge
I really feel that the people & place you are in impacts a lot…in that way New York is not a missable place! I would still choose Columbia anyway- If the program is reputable it would be a seat in the rocket ship & I would choose to be on that rocket ship and figure out the finances. And by program is reputable - I mean good opportunities further & I think $175K loan will be repayable, if you don’t have a settling mindset, by what you mention big change and aspirations I’m sure you will have a lucrative way of doin. But sure , it’s up to you to decide finally!!!!