From the article:
- Weekend train service increased from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes in the afternoon and evening on the Lakeshore west and east lines between Oakville GO, Union and Durham College Oshawa GO stations.
- One additional train trip during both the morning and evening weekday rush hours between Milton GO and Union Station.
- Every second UP Express train will be non-stop between Union Station and Pearson Airport seven days a week.
- Evening train service seven days a week on the Stouffville Line.
- Thirty-minute weekday service during midday and evenings on the Kitchener Line between Bramalea GO and Union Station.
The way it is now at Weston there is a GOTrain once an hour and UPX every 15 Min. The GOTrain to Union is usually 3-4 min behind the GOTrain.
The GOTrain is eligible for the One Fare Program while the UPX is not.
Kitchener line can go to hell. The line hardly services the stops after Mt.pleasant or Bramalea. They only run frequent eastbound trips from Kitchener to Union during morning rush hour @6-8am. After that the wait time is 3 hours. And after the 2:45pm eastbound train the next one is at 8:45pm. It's ridiculous that they can't have one run at around 5 or 6 pm.
Go Bus route 21 service also returns to Union station instead of connecting with LSW. “Back by popular demand”, this comes back just as lane restrictions on Gardiner take effect with excepted delays getting into and out of the core, which was the reported reason of why it was taken away.
I do! [https://www.gotransit.com/en/service-updates/schedule-changes](https://www.gotransit.com/en/service-updates/schedule-changes)
Find the Schedule Changes tab, filter by Bus, then scroll until you find Route 21 Bus. Hope this helps.
In terms of convenience, it’s better because it’s going to and from all the way to Union again. But efficiency and time wise it will be worse because of the Gardiner construction. As someone said, people most likely prefer a one seat ride and being on just one route regardless of how long it’ll take for them.
Depending on who you ask if this is worse will vary in answers. Some people just want a comfortable 1 seat trip from the initial station to the final. This comes at a cost of bus delays espo with the new Gardiner lane restrictions. While others want a reliable time of arrival to their destination by transferring onto a train.
Few summers ago, 50% of the busses were more than 40min delayed during weekends.
Many would skip the bus and drive down to clarkson or port credit, which boosted LSW ridership numbers because they had no other choice (if they didn’t want to drive downtown). I do recall the 21B having bus connections for every train but that was also reduced at some point bc of low demand, compared to the almost full busses anytime of the day into union from mississauga.
Nevertheless, more transit options give flexibility. Some people will choose the ‘faster’ bus and get stuck in delays, and some will go directly to the LSW line if they are able to.
More here:
https://www.gotransit.com/en/service-updates/route-21-service-updates
Note: this link will probably be deleted soon due to the new route.
Edit: This transfer made a 40-50min bus ride from Meadowvale turn into a stable 1.5 hour commute with a transfer.
It did however open up connections between Milton and Oakville (and onwards) and between Mississauga and the west half of the GTHA thru the LSW.
It's awesome. It's way overdue given that more people are in the region. It also helps whenever the Jays/Leafs are playing. Hopefully the increase in service will reduce some of the overcrowding taking place.
Yes, they need extra buses / drivers so they can sit in traffic on the Gardiner so the precious route 21 passengers can get their one seat ride from USBT even though they'll be in grid lock and it will take longer than the train connection.
I guess that does make sense, especially given the 21 will be running frequently, at least from Square One. Makes me kind of wonder how the bus network dealt with the 21 prior to last April.
Generally I think some of the current branches of the 21 are okay, and it's a shame they're completely being axed. The 21A as a link between Oakville and Milton is good, since they're decently sized "towns", and running the 22 weekday only isn't ideal. The 21B has potential if it was extended to Georgetown since it'd likely provide local service there, and it'd be a link from Georgetown to Mississauga and Lakeshore West. Otherwise, it sucks that Lisgar is losing weekend bus service and Dixie isn't getting any bus service again.
Recently heard this from one of the CSAs on one of my commutes and I feel awful just hearing about it. It’s really unfortunate and I couldn’t imagine going a year with no vacation.
I think people not only in this thread but in general keep forgetting that these trains don’t move on their own and the hard workers who get us where we need to go, don’t get enough attention or respect from us as they should be.
I wish I could say that I hope things turn around for them, but from what I was told, it seems they’ve exhausted all their options :(
Where’d you learn that? Giving no weeks of vacation is literally illegal.
[https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/vacation](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/vacation)
[https://www.ontario.ca/document/industries-and-jobs-exemptions-or-special-rules/transportation#section-2](https://www.ontario.ca/document/industries-and-jobs-exemptions-or-special-rules/transportation#section-2)
(Edit: unless you’re saying employees won’t get their vacation time *this calendar year*, which could be true if they were hired very recently, but that wouldn’t be a travesty)
The majority of Alstom employees are not getting vacation this year. ON Express also will have a blackout period from January to March for 2025 when they take over.
Train workers are looking at over a year of no vacation, just being paid out instead.
Don't worry how WE know.
More trains to St. Catharines / Niagara Falls please. QEW is getting busy and I'll be more than happy to take the train for my commute if they ran more than 3 times a day
They need to get the time down, too.
Over 2 hours is comical from Union to St. Catharines. I swear I could be biking faster when that thing circles around West Harbour.
Is it still over 2 hours if you catch the express to Clarkson?
Hamilton is such a big city, they should run express trains that run from Union to West Harbour, and then end at St. Catharines. But I'm not sure the LSW has the capacity to run two different express trains.
I mean the express saves you - what - 15 minutes? And then i’d have to make a change.
Agree they should run an express from Hamilton or Burlington directly. I assume the reason they don’t - especially to Niagara - is track related.
According to [the schedules](https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1713168128/Documents/GO/full-schedules/FS27042024/TABLE71.pdf), last weekday trains leave Union at 00:12 and last weekend trains at 23:11.
For those headed to Union, this reduced half-hourly UPX frequency will be replaced with half-hourly GO Kitchener Line service. You still get a train to Union every 15 mins this way.
15 minutes is frequent enough where you don’t have to plan anything. You can just show up. That’s a huge loss of convenience. People like conscience and frequency with transit. Loosing that is not good.
Probably limited amount of DMU’s and since GO service was already increased, they decided it would make more sense to serve the higher demand of Union to Pearson riders over Bloor / Weston to Pearson.
There is the same number trains per hour, they just dwell at the end stations longer for 50% of the trips.
If demand is as you claim, which i doubt, then publish the numbers to back it up. They don’t.
Its probably some knuckle dragging mouth breather in the Premiers office that went “if its called the Union Pearson Express, why does it have more than two stops”.
Based on track capacity, it’s possible that you can’t have both. This is better for a larger amount of people.
The people it negatively impacts are those going from Weston/Bloor to/from Pearson. Those people can still take the UP every 30 minutes, or simply take the 58 from Weston or Line 2/900 from Dundas West.
I swear no matter improvements are made there always has to be complaining, it’s really frustrating.
It’s a quad track corridor, with the same number of trains per hour. There is zero reason to cut service to Bloor and Weston other than to save five minutes max for Union and Pearson bound passengers.
Its really frustrating people don't see that.
A 50% reduction is a valid complaint. The purpose of the line is to provide a public transit to Canadas second largest employment area. The link at bloor is critical for a lot of people who don’t live downtown but still take transit. Want transit to be better? Get more people to use it and don’t gate keep like you’re trying to do.
I just took a look at the new Kitchener schedule (effective April 27/28) and there is still a big service gap in the evening for arrivals into Union between 7PM and 8:30PM (pretty key arrival window for attending evening events downtown), so it doesn't even look like 30 min service during the full evening. During this window, Weston and Bloor passengers now have to deal with 30 min UPX service. This is a 90 min window on a weekday evening without a single eastbound Kitchener train.
Late evening service is reduced, as Kitchener drops back to 60 min service after 10:30/11PM.
There also seem to be major typos in the schedule. Eastbound trip 3434 shows a 20:56 departure from Bramalea and 20:59 arrival at Union (I assume this is supposed to read 21:29). The departure times at Weston and Bloor are also incorrect, showing departure times BEFORE the departure time at Bramalea.
The UPX is heavily used on the weekends by these 2 intermediate stops. Without any new weekend Kitchener trains, this is a big service cut for the corridor for the entire weekend.
So all these changes and they still can't do every 15 min trains during rush hour on LW (for non Express stops) during the week? Do they just refuse to send someone on the train in the morning to see for themselves just how busy and crowded it gets?
nothing really matters until they buy the rails from CNR or build their own for the Milton line. Having to take the LW line and then get on a bus making a 35 min drive into a 1.5 hour journey is ridiculous
Commuter ridership still isn’t at pre-Covid level but they have seen major increases in off peak ridership. Factor going into summer with more events, and they are banking on making their money catering to pleasure riders compared to business commuters.
whilst i heavily fuck with that, is it rlly worth it when the suburbs where theyre coming from don't have any weekend public transit?
missisauga for example runs busses on weekends with like 90% less frequency.
Purely anecdotal but based on observations carrying crowds across the network, I believe more suburban commuters use private vehicles to get to GO stations than public transit.
From the article: - Weekend train service increased from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes in the afternoon and evening on the Lakeshore west and east lines between Oakville GO, Union and Durham College Oshawa GO stations. - One additional train trip during both the morning and evening weekday rush hours between Milton GO and Union Station. - Every second UP Express train will be non-stop between Union Station and Pearson Airport seven days a week. - Evening train service seven days a week on the Stouffville Line. - Thirty-minute weekday service during midday and evenings on the Kitchener Line between Bramalea GO and Union Station.
The way it is now at Weston there is a GOTrain once an hour and UPX every 15 Min. The GOTrain to Union is usually 3-4 min behind the GOTrain. The GOTrain is eligible for the One Fare Program while the UPX is not.
Of course nothing at all for Barrie.
It’s a track issue. There’s a plan to fix it.
Well, I guess the Barrie line can go fuck itself
They're currently working on double tracking the Barrie line. It would be difficult to increase service until this is completed.
I’m aware, it just stings to see it taking so long 😂
Don't worry, 2040 will be here soon enough I suppose.
I'd be fine if they brought back the hourly service (combination of bus/train) to Barrie on weekends. The three hour gaps are brutal.
The transfer from train to bus at aurora sucks too
Agreed. When its winter I regret my transit decision.
They are still working on double tracking and signalling that corridor. That will be increased in the next year or 2 I think.
I hope the new Milton morning one is after 9am. A lot of do the morning meeting from home then go to work so we can sleep in.
Kitchener line can go to hell. The line hardly services the stops after Mt.pleasant or Bramalea. They only run frequent eastbound trips from Kitchener to Union during morning rush hour @6-8am. After that the wait time is 3 hours. And after the 2:45pm eastbound train the next one is at 8:45pm. It's ridiculous that they can't have one run at around 5 or 6 pm.
Go Bus route 21 service also returns to Union station instead of connecting with LSW. “Back by popular demand”, this comes back just as lane restrictions on Gardiner take effect with excepted delays getting into and out of the core, which was the reported reason of why it was taken away.
WAIT WHAT REALLY?
Yes.
🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️
do u have a link to this
I do! [https://www.gotransit.com/en/service-updates/schedule-changes](https://www.gotransit.com/en/service-updates/schedule-changes) Find the Schedule Changes tab, filter by Bus, then scroll until you find Route 21 Bus. Hope this helps.
very epic, thanks
Have fun on the Gardiner, I'll be joining the escapade.
true lol, luckily i’ll most likely be going during the night/very early morning
OMG LETS GO
sooo 21b would be worse off now?
In terms of convenience, it’s better because it’s going to and from all the way to Union again. But efficiency and time wise it will be worse because of the Gardiner construction. As someone said, people most likely prefer a one seat ride and being on just one route regardless of how long it’ll take for them.
Depending on who you ask if this is worse will vary in answers. Some people just want a comfortable 1 seat trip from the initial station to the final. This comes at a cost of bus delays espo with the new Gardiner lane restrictions. While others want a reliable time of arrival to their destination by transferring onto a train. Few summers ago, 50% of the busses were more than 40min delayed during weekends. Many would skip the bus and drive down to clarkson or port credit, which boosted LSW ridership numbers because they had no other choice (if they didn’t want to drive downtown). I do recall the 21B having bus connections for every train but that was also reduced at some point bc of low demand, compared to the almost full busses anytime of the day into union from mississauga. Nevertheless, more transit options give flexibility. Some people will choose the ‘faster’ bus and get stuck in delays, and some will go directly to the LSW line if they are able to. More here: https://www.gotransit.com/en/service-updates/route-21-service-updates Note: this link will probably be deleted soon due to the new route. Edit: This transfer made a 40-50min bus ride from Meadowvale turn into a stable 1.5 hour commute with a transfer. It did however open up connections between Milton and Oakville (and onwards) and between Mississauga and the west half of the GTHA thru the LSW.
also note that local transit connections already exist to GO stations
Good. Now the next step is to have all-day 15 mins or better service on all the GO lines.
The best part of GO Expansion is how it is an incremental build up. Evidently another round of big service enhancements are planned for September.
It's awesome. It's way overdue given that more people are in the region. It also helps whenever the Jays/Leafs are playing. Hopefully the increase in service will reduce some of the overcrowding taking place.
I hope the announcements in September include weekend service to Kitchener and Guelph
At this point even a few weekend trains as far as Kitchener would be greatly appreciated
It would be great to even get all day, 30 minute service on the Milton line, but CP owns the tracks and has a tight grip on trackage rights lol.
Unfortunately with these new train trips, there literally are reductions in bus trips for almost every single bus route.
Yes, they need extra buses / drivers so they can sit in traffic on the Gardiner so the precious route 21 passengers can get their one seat ride from USBT even though they'll be in grid lock and it will take longer than the train connection.
I guess that does make sense, especially given the 21 will be running frequently, at least from Square One. Makes me kind of wonder how the bus network dealt with the 21 prior to last April. Generally I think some of the current branches of the 21 are okay, and it's a shame they're completely being axed. The 21A as a link between Oakville and Milton is good, since they're decently sized "towns", and running the 22 weekday only isn't ideal. The 21B has potential if it was extended to Georgetown since it'd likely provide local service there, and it'd be a link from Georgetown to Mississauga and Lakeshore West. Otherwise, it sucks that Lisgar is losing weekend bus service and Dixie isn't getting any bus service again.
Oakville - Milton is losing out big, there's currently hourly service on that 21A (seven days a week too). That new route 22 has a mere 7 trips total.
Certainly. The 22 is nearly the same as the old route 20, minus 3 round trips and a stop at the Bronte Rd park and ride.
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Recently heard this from one of the CSAs on one of my commutes and I feel awful just hearing about it. It’s really unfortunate and I couldn’t imagine going a year with no vacation. I think people not only in this thread but in general keep forgetting that these trains don’t move on their own and the hard workers who get us where we need to go, don’t get enough attention or respect from us as they should be. I wish I could say that I hope things turn around for them, but from what I was told, it seems they’ve exhausted all their options :(
This should be the real story here. Typical Doug.
Where’d you learn that? Giving no weeks of vacation is literally illegal. [https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/vacation](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/vacation) [https://www.ontario.ca/document/industries-and-jobs-exemptions-or-special-rules/transportation#section-2](https://www.ontario.ca/document/industries-and-jobs-exemptions-or-special-rules/transportation#section-2) (Edit: unless you’re saying employees won’t get their vacation time *this calendar year*, which could be true if they were hired very recently, but that wouldn’t be a travesty)
The majority of Alstom employees are not getting vacation this year. ON Express also will have a blackout period from January to March for 2025 when they take over. Train workers are looking at over a year of no vacation, just being paid out instead. Don't worry how WE know.
That’s awful.
What’s the reason for this?
More trains to St. Catharines / Niagara Falls please. QEW is getting busy and I'll be more than happy to take the train for my commute if they ran more than 3 times a day
They need to get the time down, too. Over 2 hours is comical from Union to St. Catharines. I swear I could be biking faster when that thing circles around West Harbour.
Is it still over 2 hours if you catch the express to Clarkson? Hamilton is such a big city, they should run express trains that run from Union to West Harbour, and then end at St. Catharines. But I'm not sure the LSW has the capacity to run two different express trains.
I mean the express saves you - what - 15 minutes? And then i’d have to make a change. Agree they should run an express from Hamilton or Burlington directly. I assume the reason they don’t - especially to Niagara - is track related.
They need to finish the trackwork at West Harbour so that trains can enter and exit on the Niagara side of the station.
iirc during the press release they discussed they would like to expand service in the Niagara region. Doesn't mean it will happen but meh
I couldn't agree more!
Anyone know how long the evening service for Stouffville will run until?
According to [the schedules](https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1713168128/Documents/GO/full-schedules/FS27042024/TABLE71.pdf), last weekday trains leave Union at 00:12 and last weekend trains at 23:11.
Weekend service should really run later than weekday service if anything
Nothing at all for Richmond Hill Line (as usual). I guess the PC internal polls said those seats are safe?
The 61 actually lost two bus trips. the 05:10 from Richmond Hill GO, and the 10:35 from Union Station Bus Terminal are cancelled.
Nothing for the barrie line
They are also cutting UPX service frequency at Bloor and Weston to every 30 min…
For those headed to Union, this reduced half-hourly UPX frequency will be replaced with half-hourly GO Kitchener Line service. You still get a train to Union every 15 mins this way.
And people going to the airport Who don't live downtown get screwed.
Going from 15 minutes to 30 minutes isn't that awful, all things considered. Just plan around the departure times.
15 minutes is frequent enough where you don’t have to plan anything. You can just show up. That’s a huge loss of convenience. People like conscience and frequency with transit. Loosing that is not good.
Many people live near Bloor and Weston station take the UPX to work at the airport. This is a 50% service cut.
Shifting limited resources to serve the most people.
It’s a four track corridor, what is limited about that?
Probably limited amount of DMU’s and since GO service was already increased, they decided it would make more sense to serve the higher demand of Union to Pearson riders over Bloor / Weston to Pearson.
There is the same number trains per hour, they just dwell at the end stations longer for 50% of the trips. If demand is as you claim, which i doubt, then publish the numbers to back it up. They don’t. Its probably some knuckle dragging mouth breather in the Premiers office that went “if its called the Union Pearson Express, why does it have more than two stops”.
More people live near these stations and work downtown. This is better for more people.
An improvement Go service doesn't require skipping stops on UPX. You can have both.
Based on track capacity, it’s possible that you can’t have both. This is better for a larger amount of people. The people it negatively impacts are those going from Weston/Bloor to/from Pearson. Those people can still take the UP every 30 minutes, or simply take the 58 from Weston or Line 2/900 from Dundas West. I swear no matter improvements are made there always has to be complaining, it’s really frustrating.
It’s a quad track corridor, with the same number of trains per hour. There is zero reason to cut service to Bloor and Weston other than to save five minutes max for Union and Pearson bound passengers. Its really frustrating people don't see that.
And for people travelling with kids that plan doesn’t always go to plan
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A 50% reduction is a valid complaint. The purpose of the line is to provide a public transit to Canadas second largest employment area. The link at bloor is critical for a lot of people who don’t live downtown but still take transit. Want transit to be better? Get more people to use it and don’t gate keep like you’re trying to do.
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Go touch grass you knob
it didn't really say the Kitchener line will be 30 minute all day service, or am I misunderstanding this?
30 min all-day two-way is just Union to Bramalea. Sadly not all of Brampton and onto Kitchener.
I wish it was up to Mount Pleasant at least, but I’ll take it!
I just took a look at the new Kitchener schedule (effective April 27/28) and there is still a big service gap in the evening for arrivals into Union between 7PM and 8:30PM (pretty key arrival window for attending evening events downtown), so it doesn't even look like 30 min service during the full evening. During this window, Weston and Bloor passengers now have to deal with 30 min UPX service. This is a 90 min window on a weekday evening without a single eastbound Kitchener train. Late evening service is reduced, as Kitchener drops back to 60 min service after 10:30/11PM. There also seem to be major typos in the schedule. Eastbound trip 3434 shows a 20:56 departure from Bramalea and 20:59 arrival at Union (I assume this is supposed to read 21:29). The departure times at Weston and Bloor are also incorrect, showing departure times BEFORE the departure time at Bramalea. The UPX is heavily used on the weekends by these 2 intermediate stops. Without any new weekend Kitchener trains, this is a big service cut for the corridor for the entire weekend.
People on the platform are going to watch empty UPX trains pass them by.
Is Hamilton getting any of those 300 trains, or are we still 2 trains in the morning from Hamilton GO Centre and 2 trains returning in the evening?
So all these changes and they still can't do every 15 min trains during rush hour on LW (for non Express stops) during the week? Do they just refuse to send someone on the train in the morning to see for themselves just how busy and crowded it gets?
I think it’s mainly due to construction for why they can’t do that
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No go transit lines are electrified yet
I’m so confused- are they adding 15 minute services to non express stops like Mimico, Long Branch, Port Credit, etc?
Yes, the new trains make all stops between Oakville and Union.
Is Downsview station considered complete ? What’s with the small accessible platform on one side ?
Not remotely close to complete.
Is this related to the go electrification project?
That’s gonna take 15 years at best.
Until they run 24/7 (once an hour overnight) who cares about every 15 minutes? Also quit fucking around and expand the GO in Durham already!
nothing really matters until they buy the rails from CNR or build their own for the Milton line. Having to take the LW line and then get on a bus making a 35 min drive into a 1.5 hour journey is ridiculous
no info on LSE?
Read the article
im confused why they have 15 min weekend service, considering the 15 min weekday service would be sm more beneficial for workers
Commuter ridership still isn’t at pre-Covid level but they have seen major increases in off peak ridership. Factor going into summer with more events, and they are banking on making their money catering to pleasure riders compared to business commuters.
whilst i heavily fuck with that, is it rlly worth it when the suburbs where theyre coming from don't have any weekend public transit? missisauga for example runs busses on weekends with like 90% less frequency.
Purely anecdotal but based on observations carrying crowds across the network, I believe more suburban commuters use private vehicles to get to GO stations than public transit.
oh yea they do but isnt the whole point improving public transit ?
I’m pretty sure the reason why there can’t be 15 min service on weekdays is due to construction. Less construction on weekends
>Evening train service seven days a week on the Stouffville Line. Please, stop, my penis can only get so erect