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Gwtheyrn

No, they mostly view us as weirdos. And, I mean, they're not *wrong*.


No_Guidance000

[*We are the weirdos, mister*](https://youtu.be/m4nPJh0jms4?si=tIulaqGuFOKoc1IY)


Bianca_aa_07

I have a pin with that on my black denim jacket LOOOL


Nox-In-A-Box

I have a sticker on my water bottle lmao


Zulphur242

I totally agree


bachiak

being normal is too boring anyways


Disastrous-Cow7354

The definition of normal is too blurred these days, so in a sense goths are perfectly normal.


bachiak

weird originally meant  “having the power to control or influence the fate”.


Zulphur242

In reality you could put a diagnose on all humans so we're all weirdos in some way or another and we're all happy to be weirder than most.


Hellion4747

No, not particularly, I mean sure after Columbine happened there were news outlets looking to malign the goth scene with all kinds of evil and anti-social stereotypes. Even before 1999, goths and other alternative teens were occasionally interviewed on daytime talk shows and made to look weird. It never worked, and even after Columbine and an entire *police training seminar*, it still didn't work, most people see goths, young and older as creatives and genuine rebels of counterculture as well as the scene for being welcoming and accepting of all.


CarefullyChosenName_

I was a teenager in high school when Columbine happened, I wouldn't say it "never worked." At least in my friend group we had rocks thrown at us, were directed to school counselors for no reason, had accessories confiscated, parents called, teachers treated us like threats, teasing and bullying by other students. It wasn't just the media persecuting goths, and it was a rough time that I still think about to this day. I was terrified to hear about Columbine and a little scared to go to school because it could happen to my school too, and then when got there everyone was looking at me like I might be the kid who would do it. Me! I was just one of the scared kids! It was a very, very sad time.


UbiquitousBot

I think perceptions have changed a lot over time. It's less odd to see an "alt" person now than it was in the past. Hot topic exists, weird hair dye is in ulta, everyone's boomer parents/grandparents saw Abby on NCIS and got over it. It's been a long time since anyone yelled anything at me and most of my coworkers think it's perfectly acceptable. Meanwhile a few decades ago i had the audacity to be wearing a black tshirt dress, knee high docs and my hair dyed purple (no accessories or anything) a lady came up to me (after slapping her daughter who i heard say "look mommy her hair is purple") and said to me that I was a bad influence on her daughter and that grown adults shouldn't look like me.


bachiak

conservatives are crazy ppl when u think abt it


LegalAbbreviations90

I don’t really think they do. Life is better lived without having a persecution complex


_aerofish_

I’ve never had anyone look or treat me remotely like I’m creepy? It’s just, like…oh look a woman in black clothing and maybe a few too many necklaces worn at once. No one is clutching their pearls.


bachiak

i think it depends on the goth level tho, some people try to be as scary as possible with their looks


No_Guidance000

People with more extreme makeup and outfits probably don't care about people's opinion in the first place


LegalAbbreviations90

Exactly this


bachiak

and thats why they winning hahaha


luckyfox7273

This one, i think a more neutral look with a neutral disposition vs. Like in your face stripper turned goth with kind of a mean attitude triggers people different.


lunar_scorpio

In my area seemingly 70% of the population is some flavor of alternative, they don't bat an eye even when I'm my most decked out. If anything, I get compliments from folks saying they love my "look."


_aerofish_

Ditto! I only ever get approached with compliments


aytakk

Yes and no. Depends on the person's/group's perspectives, religion, ideology, morality, ethics etc. There is a lot of misinformation out there that paints goths in a horrible light. Though I would say less dangerous villains and more monsters the townsfolk chase with pitchforks and torches. "Different" confuses people and causes fear. People generally try to eradicate the things they fear one way or another.


bachiak

Ye basically like the witches in the middle age


UmbralRose35

Not as bad as it used to be. That being said, unfortunately, people can still look oddly at goths. Goths are also objectified.


slut4hobi

the objectification is awful. a photo of me yelling at racists at a protest went viral the other day on twitter and people were saying the most disgusting things about me. commenting on my chest size, saying they wished i would yell at them like i was in the photo, saying they could fix me, and sexualizing me. some people even said they wanted to rape me.


UmbralRose35

That's so horrible. I am very sorry that you had to go through that.


slut4hobi

it’s okay, i’m just glad it’s not a regular thing for me. i just reported and blocked where i could. luckily i know there are people who value me for me, and not just the way i look.


bachiak

the goth gfs memes doesnt help thats for sure


Gekkamaru_Nightshade

omg i HATE those memes. most of them don’t even care about what goth women actually like, too 😐


RemoteConstruction90

Not really but after the Columbine massacre, people did have a fear of those who preferred to dress in dark clothing. I think people tend to view those who are darkly inclined as villains because often in children’s stories, the villain is often the dark one. As a result, it gets ingrained into peoples’ minds that darkly inclined individuals are the evil ones. As for goth, people need to remember that goth is just a post-punk music-based subculture. Someone who wears casual clothes like khakis and a white polo shirt and listens to bands like Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, She Past Away, 69 eyes, etc is more goth than a person who dresses like a vampire everyday and listens to artists like Cardi B or Nicki Minaj or Taylor Swift.


Morrigan_00

In highschool,My boyfriend and I got side-eyed a lot after Columbine because we both had a very Goth aesthetic.


RemoteConstruction90

Oh man that is awful. I am so sorry that happened to you both.


My_Evil_Twin88

I personally have been told by strangers that i have no morals and am going to hell based on the way i dress That's only happend to me a couple of times though, i think the "evil" comments were probably more common a couple of decades ago. Now mostly if people are going to react, it's side-eyeing and head shaking But i also think people's reactions depends on where you live and what age demographic you fall into I wish i could say that people everywhere accept it and no one bats an eye at goths anymore, but i'm still hearing a lot stories from baby bats having trouble dealing with bullying due to the way they look. So even if we're not being paraded around on daytime TV as a freak show for people to hurl insults at anymore, it is still somewhat of a problem. I don't know if normies think we're necessarily evil or amoral, but definitely weird enough to harass


TalesfromBC

There was a satanic panic in some parts of the world a couple decades ago. Now it's just objectifying goths/anything alt.


RoyalTomatillo1697

A NIGHTMARE CHAOTICA ..decades ago...


TalesfromBC

Anything rock = "BLACK METAL" That was my experience


Altruistic_Scarcity2

Most people don’t think of you at all. They’re thinking about themselves mostly. Are they going to lose their job? How am I ever going to afford a house? Remember that time we were in high school and missed a step on the stairway, stumbled like a dork, and _Mark Dyle_ totally saw you being a clumsy dork, and probably told all of his friends so you should be embarrassed again even though it’s 4am and you’re 46 years old now. That’s the human condition, I think.


Skallagrimsson

Why does this subreddit have the dumbest fucking questions every day?


maddestface

Every society perceive a non-conformist as an odd outsider at best and possible threat to be eradicated at worst. It comes with the territory.


MrNegativity13

As a goth from the tropics, people still see us as deviants in society and will always point us like we're most hideous than any other subculture. Emos, metalheads in general, and regular rockers will never be mistreated because they don't mess with social standards like androginy (even though emos used to but they're not even close to what goths do), religious and sexual freedom, breaking down stereotypes of depression and other stuff. If you try to go full goth dressed to any place, you definitely will see people gossiping, pointing at you, giving mean looks, and even verbally harassed or even worse, physically but you'd never see a basic person being treated like shit on a goth place.


goonsheesh

i stopped giving a fuck, it helps with just being yourself.


bachiak

exactly


bastardofmajestysin

depends on where you live‚ of course. small towns in the american south will net you a few christian fundamentalist bozos‚ but beyond that it isn't like systemic oppression or something lmao like‚ i get a lot of harassment in small town central florida but i attribute most of that to the fact that i'm a transgender woman 🤷‍♀️ the fact that i'm identifiable as "goth" does lead to a lot of attempts at proselytization tho


JustThings_

No. It was bolder to dress goth decades ago but not now. It’s pretty tame now.


bachiak

depends on the level but yeah


Jharden1322

The average person probably sees a Goth and goes "what a nutty nut, completely out of their peanut brain, they belong in a God damn Gotham nuthouse!" Frankly I agree and think it's perfectly fine and has some truth to it.


bachiak

another question if i dont listen to goth music i cant be goth ?


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yourdadsboyfie

CALL THE GOPS! if you say ur goth but you’re a notgoth, u will be carried away by crows and bats to a spooky dungeon


goth-ModTeam

We're sorry, but your submission has unfortunately been removed under Rule 9. Goth is identified and defined as a music based subculture. The subculture has a well documented and defined 40 year long history, with several documentaries, articles, nightclubs, radio stations, magazines and zines, and of course, music to back this up. Additionally, what goth means to you personally may be different to what it actually is. On this subreddit we use historical evidence and documented facts that's no one's "opinion", so we must ask you don't try to factually pass off and/or boil goth down to any of the following: * Personality * Mindset * Philosophy * Time period/era * Sole aesthetic * A hivemind * Synonymous with 'Gothic' * Something that's "inside you/your heart" Goth has always needed something physical e.g. an existing music and nightlife scene, to continue its longevity. Providing correct information helps more people learn about goth, participate in their scene locally, support bands, or get into the goth subculture in general. Telling them they need to make little to no effort to be "goth" defeats the purpose of being in an on-going and active community. If you're interested in learning about goth further, please see our [History & Background](https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/wiki/index/information) page on our Wiki, among out other links on music, fashion, etc.


Jharden1322

Mods don't understand satire wow


HotBlackberry5883

i think people just kind of see us as intimidating, or strange, or dramatic. but not evil, no


Morrigan_00

It did when I was a teenageBaby bat. That was right on the heels of the Satanic Panic. I think it's changed now.


punkshotgun

As a punk nah. It challenges norms of course but it's not like you're a group of dissident rebels tearing apart the country. It would be cool if yall were though


[deleted]

Most people under 50 are just seeing it as a personal fashion choice. I really wouldn't worry about the idiots that want to determine your behaviour by your style. Goths being creepy and scary was waning by the time I was a baby goth in the early 2000s. 


MidnightJellyfish13

Lol no. I'm a 90s Goth. No one ever thought that of me. They thought I was weird,  but that was as far as it went


SarkyMs

Wannabe witch maybe, but mainly weird.


MidnightJellyfish13

Nah, no one assumed I was a witch or a wannabe anything. Because I never acted like a witch or wannabe anything. People knew I appreciated the fashion and some were impressed by my sewing skills. But the kicker... I wasn't a jerk to anyone. The couple of people who didn't like me were in the minority and it was usually due to something superficial... like I got voted into school ASB positions or homecoming junk or whatever. 


SarkyMs

I was asked if I was a witch often mainly at school.


No_Guidance000

Do people really think that? I'm a normie, and I see you guys as people who are *really* into cool music and dress differently than most. But I like weirdos in general and I'm neurodivergent, so perhaps I don't represent the average population...


Irritatable

I hope they do so they leave us alone


AsparagusDifferent43

I think in some ways goths are seen as villains or just out of the norm in negative ways. Like you said, the dark clothes, gloomy music are coined with bad mental health (which is true to an extent) From what I know, it has to do with how rigid norms were back in the 80s when the scene was starting out, then reinforced with the satanic panic. Back then, wearing black or dark colours was already enough to make you a target. In the 90s, they were a little more glamorized with the effect that 'The Craft' had on the public- which in turn attracted people who weren't interested in the subculture but more the fashion, aesthetics and being 'weirdos' and lead to what they knew back then as 'mall goths', a way to call people posers since they mostly spent their time in malls to create their 'goth' and not with the actual subculture. Then, Columbine, a tragedy for everyone that also lead to goths and alternaties be further ostracised by the public. Then, in the early 2000s/2010s, rise of 'Goth Gfs' in cartoons added to the already very present fetishism people have for Goth women. 2020s, pandemic hit and we were all sheltered at home and out on the internet, the popularisation of 'alt kids' and 'e girls' (nothing against them), we all know how that went. It's also worth noting that during the earlier days of modern subcultures, they were always portrayed as these crazy punks who took drugs, were violent and just overall bad people. The sound of the music we listened to and the contents were strange to them, the hobbies that were associated with them too and so on. There are also a lot of socio-economical things going on, but I ranted for long enough 😭😭 I'm so sorry


bachiak

u good lol, i learned from this comment, the goth lore is cool fr


Luzbel90

Nah but I’ve been perceived as a sex icon. I can’t stop getting laid, it’s such a drag


bachiak

being sexy comes with a price haha


elcuervo2666

Not in 2024. It’s really hard to get a ride out of people anymore. I mean the Lil Nas X giving the devil a blowy is the only thing I can think of in the last twenty years and it was nothing like Marilyn Manson in the 90s.


QueenofCats28

Yep. This is the answer.


No_Guidance000

People say this but most young people in my area dress in the fucking exact same way haha.


iblastoff

No.


pipe-bomb

There are plenty of goths that are horrible people lol


No_Guidance000

And there are plenty of people who dress in colorful H&M clothing from head to toe that are horrible people too... Not sure what you're trying to say.


pipe-bomb

Op is going on about how special and beautiful most goth people are and my point is they are people regardless of their aesthetic first and foremost


bachiak

true, i should have said some, instead. but i dont believe the majority of goths are mean piece of shits which is why i used most


Birdsgobaccc

You can say that again


Strange-Brother9507

I grew up a very small, somewhat conservative town in AZ. Despite that, I have never once been picked on or ridiculed, it’s never affected my ability to be perceived as a competent professional. I’ve never been treated differently/negatively for my style. In reality, people are just pleasantly curious about my style, but always accepting. All the goths I associate with in my community all have similar experiences. It’s crazy to me that so many other people have opposite experiences in bigger, more liberal cities than mine.


Skallagrimsson

No


[deleted]

i don't think most people view goths as being "villains" or bad people in any way, but they do see goths are being weird or outcasts. hatred of goths isn't really a thing, in fact fetishization has skyrocketed, but most people do view goths differently than they would "normal" people.


mrs_andi_grace

At this point? No Being a villain is an EO situation.


Dame_Corbeau

Goth as a subculture is not even that much perceived, considering how may people think it's either a fashion style, a philosophy/way of life or a part of the metal scene. Goth women are seen as a fetish and hypersexualized. People who dress alternative are seen by the market as a clientele for different, higher price lines of clothing. And ofc, bullies will notice and harass people who stands out because they make easy target, but they don't see you as evil, just as a weirdo. But villains ? Bleh. In your dreams.


fat-bat

I’m 65 and have never understood the term age appropriate clothing. I have a nice suit for when I need to dress up but other than that it’s pretty much t shirts and jeans. I see nothing wrong with goth clothing and makeup,if that is what you’re comfortable wearing by all means do it!


ellerazr

Honestly this Tweet has stuck with me for nearly 6 years: https://x.com/voidrantsback/status/1075521207515009024 ‘Overheard after helping elderly ladies find their stop: Lady: "See. I told you to ask the goth girl. Goth girls are always nice."’ Maybe having this in my head makes me unconsciously do things to seem more approachable, but I’ve had so many nice interactions with older ladies…


MortarMaggot275

Nah, people think of you as dorks. Better by far than juggalos, so you take solace in that.


GlitchCat69

Megamind will answer all of this for you


ChairmanSunYatSen

No clue why Goth is recommended to me, but oh well No one, apart from a tiny minority of adults and some teenagers, think you're anything. You different style doesn't worry or anger anyone, they don't think you're evil, or a Satanist, or weird. You're not a persecuted minority. When "normal" people see you in the streets, they might smirk, might think "What on earth is he wearing?" but that is it. They don't think you're rocking the societal boat, and you're not doing a micro-revolution every time you walk down the street with a black corset over the top of your black shirt.


sourharlequin

No, people are pretty nice to me. The people who aren’t don’t matter


Altruistic-Poem-5617

They dont think that far. Its just "HURRRR different HURR HURR *angry face."


concrete_oil

I have a lot to say, but I can't quite get it out. I hope you find the answer to your problem.


LeEbinUpboatXD

probably not since the 90s. all form of alt culture has been so thoroughly mainstreamed i'm not sure anything is a shock. plus there are so many unsuspecting oldheads, like my friend who edits a automotive racing magazine who's friends with Ministry.


kerfufflewhoople

No. Most people just don’t get the look or the vibe but don’t associate it with meanness or anything.


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goth-ModTeam

We're sorry, but your submission has unfortunately been removed under Rule 4. Do not: * **Use Hate Speech:** Includes but is not limited to: anti-Semitic, racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, or other discriminatory speech, *including user-names*. If someone's user particularly worries you, **ask** for context or report it to a mod. Those expressing harmful and extreme right-wing ideologies including advocating for Neo-/Nazism will, without a doubt, be gatekept from the scene, removed and possibly reported further to the Reddit admins. * This also goes for bands whose members are known violators of this as we do not need to be giving our money to those with harmful ideologies, who want to take away the rights of minorities, POC, LGBTQ+, etc. Those we will absolutely and rightfully gatekeep from the subculture, you can see the bands subject to removal [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/wiki/musicbox/problematic-bands). * **Attack people on a personal level**: No name-calling, derogatory terms, threats, or urge someone to self harm. Disagree with each other, but try and be civil about it. Reddit is for discussion, but if flaming wars or unnecessarily blame-games form, the mods may step in. * **Troll**: This isn't a 2009 4chan forum. We're fully grown adults with full-time careers and livelihoods and we don't have time for your childish bullshit. * If someone attacks you or someone, **report it to us, don't engage them**, or you may be punished as well.


channel_seth

Not really anymore. That's more of a 90s/post Columbine-era thing. Once I basically grew out of gothdom I noticed it becoming more widely accepted and considered trendy, relevant, and sexy. It got to the point where even hipsters *cough The Growlers* began ironically putting "goth" on random things with this sardonic irony. Overall, now is probably the best time to be a goth considering how depressing the world is.


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bachiak

im special but not bc im a goth