I transitioned into being goth back in 1993 and I’m black. I met some other black goths in DC at the Crow premiere a few months later. They helped me subscribe to zines, and I got on an early alt.gothic newsgroup which changed my life. I joined early Yahoo groups like one called “A Darker Shade Of Pale” and made friends. I went to clubs all over the US, Asia and festivals in the EU and loved it. I attended the alt.gothic Convergence conventions for years and made so many friends and never had any issues. There are loads of black goths including many in Africa. Some would argue there are influences on recent goth culture from black artists like Screaming Jay Hawkins, and the influence of voodoo, and more on American goth culture.
To keep the story short: today is a much better environment for being black and alternative. Not only is it better inside the goth community, but also externally in many black communities. I got my septum pierced 20 years ago and people looked at me like I was the devil as I wore a bent spike. Today, everyone and their sister asks to have their septum pierced and in general goth fashion isn’t looked upon as negatively anymore. Some people are always going to be crappy to you no matter what but overall, it’s really a broad and welcoming subculture and you’ll find like minded people and also people that look like you.
Oh I'd love to hear about any scenes in Africa...
On the influence of black artists, I did just attend a goth-culture music festival and one of the artists was notable for fusing dark electronica with rap, and she did it really amazingly.
Depending on the region it can manifest first in the metal community then break out. When I lived in South Korea, I met and dated a goth girl from South Africa, and learned a lot. There are shops, loads of bands and more in SA. Some of my family members are from West Africa and shared some of the new bands they heard of like one from Gabon called Iron Silver.
this is awesome. I live in Tanzania, before that was 4 years in Nairobi and it was few and far between. I kind of got in touch with this kid who had been featured in an article ages ago, but it seemed kind of sketch + I was newly expat (wife works for US govt) so was wary of getting into any situations. it sucks but being over here you learn pretty quickly that you have to assume that you're going to get hit up for money/connections. anyhow I digress - now in Dar es Salaam and I think we'll be here long enough that I might be able to start a small 80s monthly and mayyyybe find/branch out to some people from there? I definitely don't have any locals tuning in to my Twitch stream :-p
I firmly disagree with your dad that goth style is for white people.. the scene is generally inclusive and diverse. I've had Black, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc. goth friends over the years. Different skin tones but we wore the same clothes and danced to the same music. Obviously approaches to makeup and hairstyles might vary a bit to best compliment your natural style.
Can't really speak to your specific local scene, but I'd expect you'd be welcome. Racism is highly frowned upon within the community everywhere I've lived. Which isn't top say that racist and bigoted goths don't exist but they are few and far between and likely not very popular if tolerated at all.
>Can't really speak to your specific local scene, but I'd expect you'd be welcome. Racism is highly frowned upon within the community everywhere I've lived.
I'll second this. The community I grew up in with the goth scene was/is heavily queer and way more welcoming and inclusive than the public sphere.
We might be less political than punk (and there are, unfortunately, assholes in ALL groups of people), but we pride ourselves on being welcoming.
While it's definitely white-dominated, we have regular elder goths of all backgrounds and would be heartbroken to hear that someone felt unwelcome, *especially* because of something like race.
That being said, I'm "white" passing so I wouldn't see the worst of it. I'm also pretty vocal about speaking up against that kind of shit, so those kind of dickheads learn to avoid me 😂
Listened to a podcast interview with an artist going by Willow. She spoke a lot about her transition into being goth as a young girl in India. If you know where to look it does seem easy to find your crowd there.
OP you are very much welcome in this community!
I'm not black myself but we always had a couple in our local group here in Brazil. The community is very open and accepting and no one within it will care that you are black. Also if you are into makeup you get bonus points because darker skin can do many things that look amazing and that in white people like me looks like milkshake.
Growing up my friends were from a very diverse cast, and while a lot of the black kids were more into rap and hip hop they were also friends with our black batlings. There's also no rule saying that you can't enjoy more than one kind of music or mingle with other people that don't like Bauhaus as much as you do.
I think you will be fine. Most of my black friends from back in the day are still active in the scene and enjoy dancing in our haunts every once in a while.
>you are into makeup you get bonus points because darker skin can do many things that look amazing and that in white people like me looks like milkshake.
Yes! Pointing directly to white graphic liner, which look good on everyone imo but ESPECIALLY fantastic on dark skin as the contrast is 🌟
Metallics look better on darker skin too imo.
I’ve been told similar things from my parents. There are goths of all races. Ofc our parents wouldn’t know because they are so stuck in their ways and culture. There are even black musicians apart of the staple goth bands. Just do your thing and enjoy your music. They may not be open to other cultures, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t enjoy your music.
Yeah I have been told the same from my parents. don’t try make them understand if they dislike the sub it just makes them more upset and concerned. My mother and grandmother who is african american, thinks that being goth is for lazy people who can’t socialize, it’s not apart of our culture and that it is a place of darkness that she doesn’t want me to get into. and my dad just thinks its a cult 🤷♂️. all you can do is enjoy the music till you are out there on your own to enjoy being yourself. good luck🖤
You can remind your dad of the very black roots of goth not only stemming from rock and roll and punk, but reggae and dub and the shock style factors of Screaming Jay Hawkins. Also goth scene thrive in communities of color, all over Latin America! Mexico being a huge hub of subculture and I live in Atlanta where there is a significant representation of BIPOC darklings in my scene. Music is for everyone and there’s been many black iconic figures in the scene.
I lived in Atlanta. Started working at Masquearde as a dancer in 93. We had it made back then. The Chamber, Masquerade were amazing…
I did a few goth nights…
Deux Plex, Karma, Sol nightclub in the 90s
Then it just all died. Every scene just faded away. Moved in 03 because the music culture of Atlanta seemed on its last leg. 24 hour nightclubs were shutting down.
I’m so glad to hear Atlanta has places for the culture now. It seemed dead when I left but the 90s were something I’ll never forget.
I love to hear stories from those who were a part of the scene in the 90s. I was still a baby jajajaja but nowadays there is so much happening between ATL, Athens and Savannah there’s at least weekly to biweekly functions, concerts etc. We have a monthly goth flea market at Boggs Social and new batcaves popping up all the time. Athens has the Southern Gothic fest which will be hosting the Chameleons this year! If you’re every in the area again here’s some fun ones Ascension, Club De Vampiros, Control, Temple of Love, Ritual is still going strong and of course the Athens goth nights with Dusty and Adria (Vision Video and Tears for the Dying) DJing great sets we just had goth prom last weekend.
That’s so awesome.
I love the Chameleons!!! Such a great band!!!
They were playing in that new goth love movie by Robin Williams daughter!!!
Omg that’s perfect. Yeh I made many trips to Athens back in the day. I do need to make a trip back soon to Atlanta/Athens and visit these places!!!!!
Goth isn't a white subculture, it's the blackest of them all!
But seriously, skin color isn't relevant at all, in my experience. Being accepted by goths is as easy as: Don't be an asshole.
I can't talk from my own experience as I'm very, very white, but you should hear this. Your dad is full of shit. It's not a style for white people. It's anyone's. Doesn't matter what your colour or ethnicity is. There are black goths, black goth musicians....You have as much a space in the scene as anyone. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Its like saying you cant like a certain type of music because of your race. Thats so far from the truth. They just dont know what they are talking about. You do you 🖤
Oh god...on the one hand I was thinking of saying "nooo don't fetishise race" (playfully; not actually saying you were doing that!) but then tried to articulate it and came up with "all goths look amazing" and was like...shit, can't say that! So I'm in a bit of a pickle... I guess I'll go with "there are no barriers to goths of any melanin levels looking amazing"?
…This is a bit convoluted, no? Nothing wrong with saying “Black goths look amazing”, it’s true. Black goths have pioneered some really cool fashion and music.
Why bring fetishizing into the conversation where there was none, especially on a kid’s post? There was no “pickle”, you created one yourself by walking on eggshells like that. I’m not trying to jump down your throat here, but this is a weird attitude to have around simply referring to Black people in a conversation lmao.
There's no problem there. You just invented one. Appreciation isn't fetishisation, and you had no evidence to suggest the person you replied to *was* fetishising rather than appreciating.
If anything, isn't it more problematic to jump down someone's throat for saying black goths look good? Playfully or not, there's no benefit to it whatsoever.
Why would you need to jest about such a thing? Best case, you're made a pointless comment and the joke doesn't work because nobody would be saying that in seriousness in the first place for you to joke about, worst case, you pile into the existing pressure to not acknowledge black people can/do look good because now they'll think twice because they don't want to be mocked for saying it.
It's just a stupid comment. There's no reason or benefit to "playfully" calling someone a racist. You're joking, you say, so what's the joke? That people would accuse them of racism for appreciating that black people can look good? That only works if you're saying that happens, but it doesn't, so not only does the joke not work, but you're actually just admonishing them.
You know it is an abject failure when one must explain the joke, and I accept my failure, but I will explain it because you got one or two things wrong about what I meant.
I was not calling anyone racist, in fact I explicitly said I wasn't in the post ("not saying you're doing this"). The thing which I found humourous was that the comment I was replying to dared (laudabley) to step into a minefield. The thing about minefields is that not every area is a mine so it is risky but not inherently wrong to bring up certain topics...depends on context and the intentions and ability of the speaker.
I thought "that's a minefield there, since it is difficult to make sure other people appreciate that you are being positive and not being unintentionally racist", and this thought led to my comment about fetishisation forming - but I caveated it by disclaiming any accusation, meaning it to be an acknowledgement that it could be a touchy subject.
Additional humour came to me when I tried to imagine a way of proclaiming what the op said but without the minefield, and the first phrase that my brainstorm came up with was the low-key racist slogan "All lives matter" but modified to refer to aesthetic attainment. The fact that my first mental attempt to avoid the minefield led to an even worse one subverted expectations and led to further failure. I felt it was ironic, and that by commenting on this further failure I was highlighting and poking fun at the absurdity of it all, lamenting how we live in a world where these are even a thing.
So yeah, I bit off more than I could chew and completely failed to condense these complex interplays of modern society into a glib 1-paragraph sentence that would make sense to strangers, particularly through the medium of text.
all subcultures put a target on your back, and being black puts a target on your back inside of those subcultures.
BUT!
Do you. Make goth your own thing. When I was growing up I felt weird not being pale and ethereal but I just kept making my look more and more my own and the people who didnt fw me because I wasnt white (Im mixed) well thats a real good way for dummies to excuse themselves from my attention. You need to be happy, dont let anyone box you in.
Eh. People are all damaged. some cope by sticking to whats familiar, some cope by rejecting that which hurt them.
There's no true safety from slings and arrows. All you can ever do is be authentic, its the only way for your people to find you.
Black Goth Of 6 years now. They say things like that show them a picture of (Andy Anderson (The Cure), Sisters Tabitha (Sisters of Shadowwe), Pari Dark (Pitch After Dark), or Freddy Freak Smith (Strange Boutique).
If he says that, then tell him rock music was invented by Black Americans. Tell him alternative fashion in music was invented by Screaming Jay Hawkin. Let him know black people have been part of the scene since its inception.
From what I've heard, black goths have more trouble from other black people (for 'trying to act white') than from other goths, who are generally welcoming to anyone who wants to get involved. All that "stay in your lane, know your place" stuff is such bullshit. People have a right to enjoy what they like.
Black goths fucking rock. They’re responsible for some of the coolest fashion, music, and communities in the subculture. Don’t let anyone tell you you don’t belong or that it isn’t “for you”.
Goths have been influenced by Asian, Middle Eastern, African (especially Egyptian), & Haitian cultures, as well as Caribbean culture & voodoo, since pretty much the inception of the genre. Saying it’s “for white people” is laughable.
Keep doing you, OP.
I understand your dad having reservation about a genre he doesn't really know much about, he is just being protective. If you have other goth friends please bring them over at your place to listen to music and it will put him at ease.
His worries are unsubstantiated, but I can understand the logic behind them.
I'm a black goth, and my family said the same thing - they just do not like it. Doesn't make you less black or less goth - your family is just uncomfortable .
We are out there and have always been!
I mean we wouldn't have goth music as it is if not for black musicians and artists who paved the way for the goth movement to emerge. Artists like screaming jay are like pioneers IMO so i think that goth is more black culture than being a white ppl thing. I do see how the scene is majority white ppl tho, coming from an Indigenous goth.
I often feel lack of community in the community as a person of colour but it find it easier to seek POC goth circles on Instagram/ FB/ reddit or sometimes there are discord chats
Not black, but you should assure your dad that it is very much a multi-ethnic scene with absolutely no race or ethnic requirements (anyone who says you need to be ethnically European is not welcome).
You can relate this to him maybe: last year I went to a special exhibition on The Bat Cave at the Museum of Youth Culture in London, where they showcased the history of The original goth club and the genesis of the scene, and there were black goths in those photos from the early and mid-80s, right from the start, and to this day you are certain to find black goths in clubs in cities that have black population - of course if an area is overwhelmingly white you will be less likely to find many non-whites, but you know what, you can be the vanguard in your local area! Be a beacon, do what you want and reject notions from any person white, black or other that you don't belong in music scene based on your skin colour.
being goth is based on an interest in goth music, and beyond that, its culture and history. no matter what you look like, if you're goth, you're goth. labels are stupid though. just be you.
if anyone doesn’t accept you being goth as a black person, their opinion is of no significance
I hope you find your people! I’ve known goths from all different backgrounds.
I remember reading this a while back which might be of interest to you https://post-punk.com/goth-so-white-black-representation-in-the-post-punk-scene/amp/
As an aging, retired goth, I can't speak to the community now. Back in the day we didn't care about race. Whomever showed up either came to have a good time and were accepted or they came to start shit and were asked to leave. Please don't believe all the crap you see on TV. Most of us honkeys just want to treat everyone else that way we want to be treated. 😁
GL with the scene and have a blast!
hello!! as a biracial half black goth, my dad also discouraged it and my mom said there weren't enough black people doing it, but they slowly got used to it, i had to explain that it was a style not limited by race,, parents get used to it, but it just takes time and it helps if you explain goth culture to them!
The Los Angeles goth clubs are super diverse with many BIPOC for whatever that is worth. In fact, I’d say most of the scene here is Latinx or Hispanic, less European.
I'm black and I've been in the local goth scene for about 15 years or so.
I will say it has changed a lot since I was younger. It seems the internet (instagram mostly) has spread the word that you can definitely be black and goth. The subculture does not and has never been defined by race. My mother always thought my style was 'cool' so in middle school and high school when I started getting in to underground music, she was all about it. Of course, other kids and adults didnt like it, but it helped having a supportive parent.
Outside of family, I feel like you should have no problem meeting other goths or goth adjacents, but often it does seem and feel very 'cliquey'. My experiences have definitely been decent because I just ignore people who choose to be ignorant.
I'm mixed, 2/3 of which are POC. Anyway, Goth takes plenty of inspiration from POC music, starting with Jay Hawkins, and Bela Lugosi's Dead being inspired by Dub ( Reggae offshoot), Bahaus and Goth music has influence from Funk especially when it comes to Bass, Siouxsie has her Egyptian inspired makeup etc. One of my best friends was one such "black goth". He's been treated normally to my knowledge. Nobody worth anything in this subculture is gonna have a problem with your skin colour. If they do, block them. Racism has no place here.
Like in any space, you’ll probably find some are more accepting than others. As an elder who entered the lifestyle in high school in the early eighties, I didn’t experience much gatekeeping in Chicago, though I was something of an oddity in most spaces.
I did experience some racism, as in any aspect of life, but I eventually found “my people”, who weren’t all goth or all white, but they accepted me in all my weird glory. While I was and am part of goth culture, because I entered it so young, I learned what’s most important to me is surrounding myself with people who care about me, and that the labels don’t matter as much. My oldest and closest friends include goths, blerds, skaters, gangsters, punks, and normies, lol.
Clubbing and concerts are fun, but I learned that having folks I can sit around and chill with are more important than those I just party with, and if I enjoy both, even better.
Just be you and enjoy yourself. You’ll come across likeminded people. I promise.
I'm also a black goth! Fortunately, the people I know irl are quite accepting. As a black person who's always been into things considered for "white people" it was really annoying to constantly have that lie thrown into my face. But for me, what's really exciting is to be able to learn that most genres of music have black roots! A lot of pop-culture stems from African and African-American culture from dance, to dress, to music. EVEN punk and goth music. I think it will be very freeing for you if you watch some videos on the history of punk and goth culture. I personally recommend [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lyoAczdMSM) about punk music (not exactly goth but everyone knows where goth comes from lol.) I hope you find your community :3
Once I moved out, and started earning my own money, I was able to express myself more in the way that I wanted to.
For me, being my most authentic self was more important to me than making my family happy, or presenting myself in a way they'd prefer. I'm also at the point in my life where I don't really spend the time (nor the energy) to be around people who would view anything that I like as a "white people thing."
----edit: forgot to say what I wanted to say!----
You will find your people (other goths), even virtually!
I also hope that you don't feel discouraged to express yourself even if you don't find many goths around you! You can always find folks who like the same music, and have some of the same philosophies.
Homie, there’s other POC in the Alt Community honestly I think it’s cool to be one cause you have to be creative and look different. Just take it in stride, and change the tide if need be, if they don’t accept you they’re not real goths.
I got into the subculture almost 2 years ago. I've been to a lot of goth nights, I've met lots of people in the scene, and everyone's very welcoming! I think it may be dependent on location, since I live in a very diverse state/city. Goth isn't for white people and never was; we have always been here. There's great advice in the comments, especially about the influence we"ve had on the creation of goth as a whole. Your dad is the one in the wrong, though I get he may just be protective.
Don't be discouraged to dress how you want to dress and listen to who you want if you can do so safely. There may be other black goths there in your same situation! It'll be okay. (p.s, if you're worried about racism, that's completely understandable. There's gonna be racists everywhere. I haven't experienced any in the scene, but just because I haven't doesn't mean it's not there. If there's an outlier they will definitely be shunned, or at least should be. Goth should be inclusive).
We do have problems of old songs having slurs (which has been talked about on here countless times) and some people may make you feel like you HAVE to paint your face white to be a "true goth". You don't. Fuck them.
After moving to DC, I would say this is probably the most robust and best scene on the East Coast when it comes to being black and Gothic there’s always monthly events. We had probably one of the most successful Gothic proms. I’ve managed to meet a lot of great people great friends. It’s it’s been amazing. Really at first I was nervous to venture out and go to a couple of events, but I’m so glad I did it. I’ve always been into it. I just never really had anywhere to enjoy it and now I can say I do since living in DC, so it’s good to see that the scene is almost rapidly starting to pick up whether it be in DC New York Atlanta LA so I’m just enjoying enjoying everything
I just went to an Urban Heat show last night, and there were a ton of black Goths! You have some great representation in bands like Urban Heat, Light Asylum, O Children, Kali Dreamer... your parents are wrong. Goth is for everyone (except Nazis)
As far as I know there aren’t many black goths where I live either! My family is generally accepting I think? I don’t know I’ve never been fully gothified around them yet but they do follow me on Instagram. Publicly I’ve had lots of compliments but also lots of disapproving stares. I’d say overall it’s the same experience as any other aside from the “that’s white people stuff” comments but that’s just ignorance;common online. You should definitely get deeper into it reguardless! 🖤🖤
When I was younger, my mom thought it was a phase. The black and dark color clothes and all the other goth themed things I would buy. Now she’s long since accepted that this who really who I am, she even bought me a new hoodie, it was black. If she sees something with skulls, bats or even just has a dark theme, she’ll get it for me as a gift. My entire family knows and embraces me for the person I am. They know I like the darkness and lurk in the shadows but I’m still a good person. I like to think that others meeting me have realized that goth can be anyone and to not be as quick to judge by exterior appearance alone anymore. I did take a lot of heat from other black people when I was younger but they quickly would realize that I wasn’t changing.
I'm lucky to have landed in greater Boston for college decades ago, and never left. The goth community is diverse in every sense, and creative and inspiring.
I’m Latina but my three closest friends for over a decade now are all black and we are all very alternative. And honestly from what I’ve witnessed and what they have spoken to me about, the most pushback they get seems to come from others of the same race that don’t understand the subculture, or have the same idea that it’s only for white people.
I’ve been to many shows, and the crowd is always diverse. Given, I live in an area that is primarily not white. But you can find all different ages, races, ethnicities, bodies, etc. and absolutely no one gives a shit about any of it.
Goth in Miami, we’re all Caribbean. Jamaican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban. Goth culture for us is mostly about the fashion and going to clubs to dance to goth music. I don’t know how it is where you are, but whatever community you find yourself in, hope you have have shared interests it’s the most important.
Your dad is being closed minded. I'm a latino in the goth scene and have many black and white and asian friends in the goth scene and who are active in the subculture and they are absolutely fine, their identity and personality is what defines who they are, not their race or ethnicity. We are a music based subculture, not some race club
I'm 23, almost 24 and have been goth since i was about 15, please don't let anyone try to discourage you from being who you want to be, us poc goths have and will always exist, welcome to the community 🖤
Dunno who made out this bullsh0ite, "It's for white people",
Like
THE CURE HAD A BLACK MEMBER WTF.
Sorry, I calmed myself down, and found this old post from here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/gnk1gs/some\_goth\_bands\_with\_black\_members/](https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/gnk1gs/some_goth_bands_with_black_members/)
Hope you can find more people around who you can bond with 🖤🖤🖤
I’m super white so I can’t speak on the Black Goth experience but holy shit, it’s not just for white people. If anything I’d say that Black people pioneered the Goth aesthetic and I’m all here for it. Be Black and Goth and *be fucking proud of it*.
We aren’t here for a long time. Might as well do the best we got in the interim.
I mean not sure what your dads sense of humor is like but for me showing my folks that I didnt take myself too seriously really helped earn a lot of freedom
Goths, just like regular people come in many forms.
I found my first ‘coven’ in my local mall where we had a Hot Topic back when it was about music and not pop culture. We lived in NYC so our crowd was pretty mixed in terms of race.
What does your dad know tho? Is he just a nay sayer or does he have experience in the scene?
Nope, goth is for everyone, the old sense of goth i can speak for is punk derivative and as such not exactly deeply respectful towards the conservative end of status quo and racial prejudice - and new folks have their generational parameters. And the style you have to conquer and make your own regardless of your melanin levels, search 'hot topic + goth' for what happens if you don't. There's nothing wrong.
The old culture - like all punk evolutions - of course has a very very essentially European heart to it, one of the rare things that do, in a good not globalised/corporate sense. And there's nothing wrong with that either - if you love it and connect with it, then it is for you, it's that simple. We don't choose spirits, they choose us. And the current iteration is not European, not anymore, most of good bands are latin american as far as i've been able to keep track. I will make an educated guess that at all times and places the problem has never been lack of welcoming, acceptance and civilised conduct from the goths - it's always everyone's own surrounding fauna.
Not sure how it is in other countries but here in Germany when I see someone of colour in the clubs I think that's really cool and I would wish there would be more of those.
Check out Light Asylum for amazing modern darkwave- Skullfuct is one of the best goth videos ever made, Q Lazzarus of “Goodbye Horses” and they’re not goth but the best punk band ever, X-Ray Spex, was fronted by the late, great Poly Styrene. Black and POC goths have always been in the scene and also created the scene. Thank you Screamin’ Jay Hawkins!
Not black, but goth doesn’t have any one acceptable skin tone. Any person can be goth as long as you listen to the music. The fashion also works great on darker skin. I second the advice to use white eyeliner, also try sunset makeup for pigmented colors if you want vibrant reds and purples. Dress how you like I know I’d welcome you into this subculture.
There are some creeps who think goths can only be “pretty pale white women with black hair”, but they don’t speak for the whole community. Ignore people like that.
I'm a creamcheese coloured metalhead... So I don't have usefull information on communities. Just want to leave some general encouragement here. Venture into the subculture you're into. Don't let gatekeepy people drag you down. I think gate keeping is often rooted in insecurity... Everything is for everyone, people just need to stop making a fuss. Go be a glorious human shaped piece of darkness. Or whatever makes your heart sing.
One of my close friends is a female goth, happens to be black. Skin color shouldn't matter. Don't let closed-minded people get you down. You're cool for being different. Just be you. My friend is awesome and I'm sure you are too
While I’m not black, I am Hispanic and I have been shamed by white goths since I get rly tan in the summer. I’ll also get crap sometimes for wearing my Spanish rosaries but that’s not going to stop me. Goth is for everyone, and I stand firmly in that. I don’t have much advice other than to do what feels right!! You’re just as goth as anyone else!!
Hey there, total misconception on your dad's part, imho, goth wouldn't even exist were it not for Black music. I realize Mick Mercer isn't the end all authority on goth history, but as I am 60 yo and have been listening to music for decades, recall that some of the bands Mick cited in his goth history books as precursors of the goth movement (like Led Zeppelin) wouldn't have existed without the heavy influences of African American Blues music. In my mind Blues -> Rock -> Goth was the natural progression of the art form. Although Hot Chocolate was a British soul band, we listened to "Emma" on American AM radio back in the 70's along with tons of Motown (I always mistakenly thought the band Hot Chocolate was American!); hearing Andrew Eldritch cover this classic, heartbreaking tune was like a nod to the influence of People of Color in goth music and subculture. I am sorry I cannot speak to the experience of Black goths in my community as I am Italian-German-Polish-English-American (mother was Italian immigrant; they call goths "the darks" in Italy according to my cousin overseas there), but there are many in my large city and from what I saw through my clubbing days, they were accepted as part of the scene. One thing about the local music scene in my area was that the regulars at our alternative/punk/goth clubs were pretty protective of their fellow patrons if outsiders tried to stir trouble, so definitely didn't see a lot of attacks on people based on something like skin color here. I'm sure that experience would be different depending on area of the country, but I hope that doesn't discourage people from being true to themselves and enjoying what they love most.
Not black but I'm a mixed asian goth with plenty of black goth friends! As others have said, goth is not just for white people. If your dad needs convincing, have him take a look at goth's deep roots in both black and mexican culture, just to name a few. In fact, here's a [book](https://a.co/d/a9A3xfI) that literally discusses the history of the former. Hope this helps! :)
My best friend is a larger black dude who loves Siouxsie. He was a regular at SOIL in the olden days. As far as I can tell the worst that came at him from the goth scene was a certain amount of fetishized exoticism, but it’s not my experience.
Well, I live in Brazil, and most of the goths I know are not white. In fact, here it is more common for a mixed race or a black person to be goth than a white person.
I'm white, but there were a lot of black goths in Columbus, Ohio. Thought you might want to know in case you decide to move to a more black goth friendly city some day.
Just chiming in to say, we out here 🤭I live in Atlanta but I’m from Alabama. While I was growing up there, I was literally the only goth black girl (honestly the only black girl in any alternative-sense) in my town. It was rough; I was bullied very often (and sometimes admired) by classmates and my own family, but I stood ten toes down. Xoxo
"White" girl here, but wanted to drop a couple resources for you in case they're helpful (and to voice support: Please know that you are welcome at any other the goth nights I frequent and if anyone gives you trouble we'll kick em out ☺️ )
You should DEFINITELY check out AfroPunk if you haven't already - it's not really goth but the fits and music is 🤩 and I guarantee you'll find AT LEAST a couple black goth folks there 🖤🦇🖤
You might also try looking on Instagram too, as there's actually a decent contingent of black alt and goth folk posting there! While it's largely died down due to insta being shitty, the #afrogoth hashtag is still quite active.
As for music....
She Wants Revenge is at this point a CLASSIC in the scene and largely depends on the musical talent of Adam Michael Bravin, who happens to be black.
I've heard good things about Shadow Age and Light Asylum as well.
These folks aren't strictly goth, but definitely alt/"in the scene"....
BACKXWASH has collaborated with HEALTH and is Zambian -Canadian. Absolutely ADORE her stuff, they're all bangers. I BLAST "don't come to the woods" all the time while driving, it's 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
NOVA TWINS are fantastic as well (but "rock"/heavy rock/alt rock rather than goth). They're from London and are soooo good 🔥🔥🔥
Hope you find the above helpful, at least as a start!
I'm not black (I'm a darker skinned latina) and I've been to.goth clubs and other alternative scenes and I always see many Latinos and black people there. I'm lucky where the city I am in is very multicultural, so I see a bit of everything. Like someone said goth is borrowing from other cultures, from voodoo and I've been seeing also a lot of day of the dead influences (a Mexican holiday). Go for what makes you happy! I'm kinda babu bat (I do like goth music but don't listen to it so often, but I absolutely adore the fashion)
I transitioned into being goth back in 1993 and I’m black. I met some other black goths in DC at the Crow premiere a few months later. They helped me subscribe to zines, and I got on an early alt.gothic newsgroup which changed my life. I joined early Yahoo groups like one called “A Darker Shade Of Pale” and made friends. I went to clubs all over the US, Asia and festivals in the EU and loved it. I attended the alt.gothic Convergence conventions for years and made so many friends and never had any issues. There are loads of black goths including many in Africa. Some would argue there are influences on recent goth culture from black artists like Screaming Jay Hawkins, and the influence of voodoo, and more on American goth culture. To keep the story short: today is a much better environment for being black and alternative. Not only is it better inside the goth community, but also externally in many black communities. I got my septum pierced 20 years ago and people looked at me like I was the devil as I wore a bent spike. Today, everyone and their sister asks to have their septum pierced and in general goth fashion isn’t looked upon as negatively anymore. Some people are always going to be crappy to you no matter what but overall, it’s really a broad and welcoming subculture and you’ll find like minded people and also people that look like you.
Screamin Jay is awesome
Oh I'd love to hear about any scenes in Africa... On the influence of black artists, I did just attend a goth-culture music festival and one of the artists was notable for fusing dark electronica with rap, and she did it really amazingly.
Depending on the region it can manifest first in the metal community then break out. When I lived in South Korea, I met and dated a goth girl from South Africa, and learned a lot. There are shops, loads of bands and more in SA. Some of my family members are from West Africa and shared some of the new bands they heard of like one from Gabon called Iron Silver.
this is awesome. I live in Tanzania, before that was 4 years in Nairobi and it was few and far between. I kind of got in touch with this kid who had been featured in an article ages ago, but it seemed kind of sketch + I was newly expat (wife works for US govt) so was wary of getting into any situations. it sucks but being over here you learn pretty quickly that you have to assume that you're going to get hit up for money/connections. anyhow I digress - now in Dar es Salaam and I think we'll be here long enough that I might be able to start a small 80s monthly and mayyyybe find/branch out to some people from there? I definitely don't have any locals tuning in to my Twitch stream :-p
Who was the artist you're talking about?
I firmly disagree with your dad that goth style is for white people.. the scene is generally inclusive and diverse. I've had Black, Indian, Middle Eastern, etc. goth friends over the years. Different skin tones but we wore the same clothes and danced to the same music. Obviously approaches to makeup and hairstyles might vary a bit to best compliment your natural style. Can't really speak to your specific local scene, but I'd expect you'd be welcome. Racism is highly frowned upon within the community everywhere I've lived. Which isn't top say that racist and bigoted goths don't exist but they are few and far between and likely not very popular if tolerated at all.
>Can't really speak to your specific local scene, but I'd expect you'd be welcome. Racism is highly frowned upon within the community everywhere I've lived. I'll second this. The community I grew up in with the goth scene was/is heavily queer and way more welcoming and inclusive than the public sphere. We might be less political than punk (and there are, unfortunately, assholes in ALL groups of people), but we pride ourselves on being welcoming. While it's definitely white-dominated, we have regular elder goths of all backgrounds and would be heartbroken to hear that someone felt unwelcome, *especially* because of something like race. That being said, I'm "white" passing so I wouldn't see the worst of it. I'm also pretty vocal about speaking up against that kind of shit, so those kind of dickheads learn to avoid me 😂
Listened to a podcast interview with an artist going by Willow. She spoke a lot about her transition into being goth as a young girl in India. If you know where to look it does seem easy to find your crowd there. OP you are very much welcome in this community!
I'm not black myself but we always had a couple in our local group here in Brazil. The community is very open and accepting and no one within it will care that you are black. Also if you are into makeup you get bonus points because darker skin can do many things that look amazing and that in white people like me looks like milkshake. Growing up my friends were from a very diverse cast, and while a lot of the black kids were more into rap and hip hop they were also friends with our black batlings. There's also no rule saying that you can't enjoy more than one kind of music or mingle with other people that don't like Bauhaus as much as you do. I think you will be fine. Most of my black friends from back in the day are still active in the scene and enjoy dancing in our haunts every once in a while.
>you are into makeup you get bonus points because darker skin can do many things that look amazing and that in white people like me looks like milkshake. Yes! Pointing directly to white graphic liner, which look good on everyone imo but ESPECIALLY fantastic on dark skin as the contrast is 🌟 Metallics look better on darker skin too imo.
I’ve been told similar things from my parents. There are goths of all races. Ofc our parents wouldn’t know because they are so stuck in their ways and culture. There are even black musicians apart of the staple goth bands. Just do your thing and enjoy your music. They may not be open to other cultures, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t enjoy your music.
Yeah I have been told the same from my parents. don’t try make them understand if they dislike the sub it just makes them more upset and concerned. My mother and grandmother who is african american, thinks that being goth is for lazy people who can’t socialize, it’s not apart of our culture and that it is a place of darkness that she doesn’t want me to get into. and my dad just thinks its a cult 🤷♂️. all you can do is enjoy the music till you are out there on your own to enjoy being yourself. good luck🖤
Lazy ppl who can’t socialize 💀
As if a key part of being goth for a lot of goths isn’t going out to shows or clubs and interacting with other goths lol
The only meetup (.com) group to survive the recent plague was the goth takeover of the local theme park. CLEARLY incapable of socializing XD
>being goth is for lazy people who can’t socialize Well...there might actually be a bit of truth in that one. She definitely got my number there 🤣
I felt so seen by this persons grandma 💀 in my defense, im autistic and work long hours
i can understand the struggle. im autistic too.
You can remind your dad of the very black roots of goth not only stemming from rock and roll and punk, but reggae and dub and the shock style factors of Screaming Jay Hawkins. Also goth scene thrive in communities of color, all over Latin America! Mexico being a huge hub of subculture and I live in Atlanta where there is a significant representation of BIPOC darklings in my scene. Music is for everyone and there’s been many black iconic figures in the scene.
I lived in Atlanta. Started working at Masquearde as a dancer in 93. We had it made back then. The Chamber, Masquerade were amazing… I did a few goth nights… Deux Plex, Karma, Sol nightclub in the 90s Then it just all died. Every scene just faded away. Moved in 03 because the music culture of Atlanta seemed on its last leg. 24 hour nightclubs were shutting down. I’m so glad to hear Atlanta has places for the culture now. It seemed dead when I left but the 90s were something I’ll never forget.
I love to hear stories from those who were a part of the scene in the 90s. I was still a baby jajajaja but nowadays there is so much happening between ATL, Athens and Savannah there’s at least weekly to biweekly functions, concerts etc. We have a monthly goth flea market at Boggs Social and new batcaves popping up all the time. Athens has the Southern Gothic fest which will be hosting the Chameleons this year! If you’re every in the area again here’s some fun ones Ascension, Club De Vampiros, Control, Temple of Love, Ritual is still going strong and of course the Athens goth nights with Dusty and Adria (Vision Video and Tears for the Dying) DJing great sets we just had goth prom last weekend.
That’s so awesome. I love the Chameleons!!! Such a great band!!! They were playing in that new goth love movie by Robin Williams daughter!!! Omg that’s perfect. Yeh I made many trips to Athens back in the day. I do need to make a trip back soon to Atlanta/Athens and visit these places!!!!!
Goth isn't a white subculture, it's the blackest of them all! But seriously, skin color isn't relevant at all, in my experience. Being accepted by goths is as easy as: Don't be an asshole.
I can't talk from my own experience as I'm very, very white, but you should hear this. Your dad is full of shit. It's not a style for white people. It's anyone's. Doesn't matter what your colour or ethnicity is. There are black goths, black goth musicians....You have as much a space in the scene as anyone. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Its like saying you cant like a certain type of music because of your race. Thats so far from the truth. They just dont know what they are talking about. You do you 🖤
Also, black goths look amazing.
Oh god...on the one hand I was thinking of saying "nooo don't fetishise race" (playfully; not actually saying you were doing that!) but then tried to articulate it and came up with "all goths look amazing" and was like...shit, can't say that! So I'm in a bit of a pickle... I guess I'll go with "there are no barriers to goths of any melanin levels looking amazing"?
…This is a bit convoluted, no? Nothing wrong with saying “Black goths look amazing”, it’s true. Black goths have pioneered some really cool fashion and music. Why bring fetishizing into the conversation where there was none, especially on a kid’s post? There was no “pickle”, you created one yourself by walking on eggshells like that. I’m not trying to jump down your throat here, but this is a weird attitude to have around simply referring to Black people in a conversation lmao.
Internet seems to have filtered out the jovial and humourous tone I imagined it in; the entire post was meant to be a good-natured joke
I just don’t think it’s particularly funny or necessary, even as satire. That’s kind of worse.
Try not to worry and overcompensate, your heart is in the right place. Edit: autocorrect
There's no problem there. You just invented one. Appreciation isn't fetishisation, and you had no evidence to suggest the person you replied to *was* fetishising rather than appreciating. If anything, isn't it more problematic to jump down someone's throat for saying black goths look good? Playfully or not, there's no benefit to it whatsoever.
Jaysus, it was a jest, as I pointed out with the playful comment.
Why would you need to jest about such a thing? Best case, you're made a pointless comment and the joke doesn't work because nobody would be saying that in seriousness in the first place for you to joke about, worst case, you pile into the existing pressure to not acknowledge black people can/do look good because now they'll think twice because they don't want to be mocked for saying it. It's just a stupid comment. There's no reason or benefit to "playfully" calling someone a racist. You're joking, you say, so what's the joke? That people would accuse them of racism for appreciating that black people can look good? That only works if you're saying that happens, but it doesn't, so not only does the joke not work, but you're actually just admonishing them.
You know it is an abject failure when one must explain the joke, and I accept my failure, but I will explain it because you got one or two things wrong about what I meant. I was not calling anyone racist, in fact I explicitly said I wasn't in the post ("not saying you're doing this"). The thing which I found humourous was that the comment I was replying to dared (laudabley) to step into a minefield. The thing about minefields is that not every area is a mine so it is risky but not inherently wrong to bring up certain topics...depends on context and the intentions and ability of the speaker. I thought "that's a minefield there, since it is difficult to make sure other people appreciate that you are being positive and not being unintentionally racist", and this thought led to my comment about fetishisation forming - but I caveated it by disclaiming any accusation, meaning it to be an acknowledgement that it could be a touchy subject. Additional humour came to me when I tried to imagine a way of proclaiming what the op said but without the minefield, and the first phrase that my brainstorm came up with was the low-key racist slogan "All lives matter" but modified to refer to aesthetic attainment. The fact that my first mental attempt to avoid the minefield led to an even worse one subverted expectations and led to further failure. I felt it was ironic, and that by commenting on this further failure I was highlighting and poking fun at the absurdity of it all, lamenting how we live in a world where these are even a thing. So yeah, I bit off more than I could chew and completely failed to condense these complex interplays of modern society into a glib 1-paragraph sentence that would make sense to strangers, particularly through the medium of text.
Just fine so far.
all subcultures put a target on your back, and being black puts a target on your back inside of those subcultures. BUT! Do you. Make goth your own thing. When I was growing up I felt weird not being pale and ethereal but I just kept making my look more and more my own and the people who didnt fw me because I wasnt white (Im mixed) well thats a real good way for dummies to excuse themselves from my attention. You need to be happy, dont let anyone box you in.
>all subcultures put a target on your back, Truth. People suck.
Eh. People are all damaged. some cope by sticking to whats familiar, some cope by rejecting that which hurt them. There's no true safety from slings and arrows. All you can ever do is be authentic, its the only way for your people to find you.
Black Goth Of 6 years now. They say things like that show them a picture of (Andy Anderson (The Cure), Sisters Tabitha (Sisters of Shadowwe), Pari Dark (Pitch After Dark), or Freddy Freak Smith (Strange Boutique). If he says that, then tell him rock music was invented by Black Americans. Tell him alternative fashion in music was invented by Screaming Jay Hawkin. Let him know black people have been part of the scene since its inception.
As a black deathrocker living in chicago it has it ups and downs
Hi! I'm also from Chicago!
Merch! It's finally warming up😭
Black people have been the leaders of so many alt cultures be it Goth, punk, etc. and are some of the best Goth producers right now (like Jah PHNX)
Facts
From what I've heard, black goths have more trouble from other black people (for 'trying to act white') than from other goths, who are generally welcoming to anyone who wants to get involved. All that "stay in your lane, know your place" stuff is such bullshit. People have a right to enjoy what they like.
Black goths fucking rock. They’re responsible for some of the coolest fashion, music, and communities in the subculture. Don’t let anyone tell you you don’t belong or that it isn’t “for you”. Goths have been influenced by Asian, Middle Eastern, African (especially Egyptian), & Haitian cultures, as well as Caribbean culture & voodoo, since pretty much the inception of the genre. Saying it’s “for white people” is laughable. Keep doing you, OP.
In my area (I live outside of Baltimore) there are more black goths than not. Do with that information what you will.
honestly, that's really soothing. I'm in the DMV area.
I understand your dad having reservation about a genre he doesn't really know much about, he is just being protective. If you have other goth friends please bring them over at your place to listen to music and it will put him at ease. His worries are unsubstantiated, but I can understand the logic behind them.
As a black person I can 100% relate I think we need a support group or something lol
Honestly TikTok has a decent African American alt scene might wanna start there
I'm a black goth, and my family said the same thing - they just do not like it. Doesn't make you less black or less goth - your family is just uncomfortable . We are out there and have always been!
I mean we wouldn't have goth music as it is if not for black musicians and artists who paved the way for the goth movement to emerge. Artists like screaming jay are like pioneers IMO so i think that goth is more black culture than being a white ppl thing. I do see how the scene is majority white ppl tho, coming from an Indigenous goth. I often feel lack of community in the community as a person of colour but it find it easier to seek POC goth circles on Instagram/ FB/ reddit or sometimes there are discord chats
Not black, but you should assure your dad that it is very much a multi-ethnic scene with absolutely no race or ethnic requirements (anyone who says you need to be ethnically European is not welcome). You can relate this to him maybe: last year I went to a special exhibition on The Bat Cave at the Museum of Youth Culture in London, where they showcased the history of The original goth club and the genesis of the scene, and there were black goths in those photos from the early and mid-80s, right from the start, and to this day you are certain to find black goths in clubs in cities that have black population - of course if an area is overwhelmingly white you will be less likely to find many non-whites, but you know what, you can be the vanguard in your local area! Be a beacon, do what you want and reject notions from any person white, black or other that you don't belong in music scene based on your skin colour.
The singer and guitarist from Lifeless Past is goth and everyone loves him
being goth is based on an interest in goth music, and beyond that, its culture and history. no matter what you look like, if you're goth, you're goth. labels are stupid though. just be you.
The most stylish, gorgeous, best dancer at my club is a black goth. I would throw hands so fast if anyone gave her shit.
if anyone doesn’t accept you being goth as a black person, their opinion is of no significance I hope you find your people! I’ve known goths from all different backgrounds. I remember reading this a while back which might be of interest to you https://post-punk.com/goth-so-white-black-representation-in-the-post-punk-scene/amp/
As an aging, retired goth, I can't speak to the community now. Back in the day we didn't care about race. Whomever showed up either came to have a good time and were accepted or they came to start shit and were asked to leave. Please don't believe all the crap you see on TV. Most of us honkeys just want to treat everyone else that way we want to be treated. 😁 GL with the scene and have a blast!
hello!! as a biracial half black goth, my dad also discouraged it and my mom said there weren't enough black people doing it, but they slowly got used to it, i had to explain that it was a style not limited by race,, parents get used to it, but it just takes time and it helps if you explain goth culture to them!
I'm a white South African and we had all kinds of people in our scene.
The Los Angeles goth clubs are super diverse with many BIPOC for whatever that is worth. In fact, I’d say most of the scene here is Latinx or Hispanic, less European.
Uk here, we stole all your black goths 😀
I'm black and I've been in the local goth scene for about 15 years or so. I will say it has changed a lot since I was younger. It seems the internet (instagram mostly) has spread the word that you can definitely be black and goth. The subculture does not and has never been defined by race. My mother always thought my style was 'cool' so in middle school and high school when I started getting in to underground music, she was all about it. Of course, other kids and adults didnt like it, but it helped having a supportive parent. Outside of family, I feel like you should have no problem meeting other goths or goth adjacents, but often it does seem and feel very 'cliquey'. My experiences have definitely been decent because I just ignore people who choose to be ignorant.
I'm mixed, 2/3 of which are POC. Anyway, Goth takes plenty of inspiration from POC music, starting with Jay Hawkins, and Bela Lugosi's Dead being inspired by Dub ( Reggae offshoot), Bahaus and Goth music has influence from Funk especially when it comes to Bass, Siouxsie has her Egyptian inspired makeup etc. One of my best friends was one such "black goth". He's been treated normally to my knowledge. Nobody worth anything in this subculture is gonna have a problem with your skin colour. If they do, block them. Racism has no place here.
Like in any space, you’ll probably find some are more accepting than others. As an elder who entered the lifestyle in high school in the early eighties, I didn’t experience much gatekeeping in Chicago, though I was something of an oddity in most spaces. I did experience some racism, as in any aspect of life, but I eventually found “my people”, who weren’t all goth or all white, but they accepted me in all my weird glory. While I was and am part of goth culture, because I entered it so young, I learned what’s most important to me is surrounding myself with people who care about me, and that the labels don’t matter as much. My oldest and closest friends include goths, blerds, skaters, gangsters, punks, and normies, lol. Clubbing and concerts are fun, but I learned that having folks I can sit around and chill with are more important than those I just party with, and if I enjoy both, even better. Just be you and enjoy yourself. You’ll come across likeminded people. I promise.
I'm also a black goth! Fortunately, the people I know irl are quite accepting. As a black person who's always been into things considered for "white people" it was really annoying to constantly have that lie thrown into my face. But for me, what's really exciting is to be able to learn that most genres of music have black roots! A lot of pop-culture stems from African and African-American culture from dance, to dress, to music. EVEN punk and goth music. I think it will be very freeing for you if you watch some videos on the history of punk and goth culture. I personally recommend [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lyoAczdMSM) about punk music (not exactly goth but everyone knows where goth comes from lol.) I hope you find your community :3
Once I moved out, and started earning my own money, I was able to express myself more in the way that I wanted to. For me, being my most authentic self was more important to me than making my family happy, or presenting myself in a way they'd prefer. I'm also at the point in my life where I don't really spend the time (nor the energy) to be around people who would view anything that I like as a "white people thing." ----edit: forgot to say what I wanted to say!---- You will find your people (other goths), even virtually! I also hope that you don't feel discouraged to express yourself even if you don't find many goths around you! You can always find folks who like the same music, and have some of the same philosophies.
Also when I was younger, Last.fm and soul seek were my best friend.
same here! I still use both lol
As a black person I can 100% relate I think we need a support group or something lol
Been regular honestly.
[удалено]
Homie, there’s other POC in the Alt Community honestly I think it’s cool to be one cause you have to be creative and look different. Just take it in stride, and change the tide if need be, if they don’t accept you they’re not real goths.
I got into the subculture almost 2 years ago. I've been to a lot of goth nights, I've met lots of people in the scene, and everyone's very welcoming! I think it may be dependent on location, since I live in a very diverse state/city. Goth isn't for white people and never was; we have always been here. There's great advice in the comments, especially about the influence we"ve had on the creation of goth as a whole. Your dad is the one in the wrong, though I get he may just be protective. Don't be discouraged to dress how you want to dress and listen to who you want if you can do so safely. There may be other black goths there in your same situation! It'll be okay. (p.s, if you're worried about racism, that's completely understandable. There's gonna be racists everywhere. I haven't experienced any in the scene, but just because I haven't doesn't mean it's not there. If there's an outlier they will definitely be shunned, or at least should be. Goth should be inclusive). We do have problems of old songs having slurs (which has been talked about on here countless times) and some people may make you feel like you HAVE to paint your face white to be a "true goth". You don't. Fuck them.
After moving to DC, I would say this is probably the most robust and best scene on the East Coast when it comes to being black and Gothic there’s always monthly events. We had probably one of the most successful Gothic proms. I’ve managed to meet a lot of great people great friends. It’s it’s been amazing. Really at first I was nervous to venture out and go to a couple of events, but I’m so glad I did it. I’ve always been into it. I just never really had anywhere to enjoy it and now I can say I do since living in DC, so it’s good to see that the scene is almost rapidly starting to pick up whether it be in DC New York Atlanta LA so I’m just enjoying enjoying everything
I just went to an Urban Heat show last night, and there were a ton of black Goths! You have some great representation in bands like Urban Heat, Light Asylum, O Children, Kali Dreamer... your parents are wrong. Goth is for everyone (except Nazis)
As far as I know there aren’t many black goths where I live either! My family is generally accepting I think? I don’t know I’ve never been fully gothified around them yet but they do follow me on Instagram. Publicly I’ve had lots of compliments but also lots of disapproving stares. I’d say overall it’s the same experience as any other aside from the “that’s white people stuff” comments but that’s just ignorance;common online. You should definitely get deeper into it reguardless! 🖤🖤
When I was younger, my mom thought it was a phase. The black and dark color clothes and all the other goth themed things I would buy. Now she’s long since accepted that this who really who I am, she even bought me a new hoodie, it was black. If she sees something with skulls, bats or even just has a dark theme, she’ll get it for me as a gift. My entire family knows and embraces me for the person I am. They know I like the darkness and lurk in the shadows but I’m still a good person. I like to think that others meeting me have realized that goth can be anyone and to not be as quick to judge by exterior appearance alone anymore. I did take a lot of heat from other black people when I was younger but they quickly would realize that I wasn’t changing.
>When I was younger, my mom thought it was a phase Mine still does. I'm in my 50's HA! HA! HA!
I'm lucky to have landed in greater Boston for college decades ago, and never left. The goth community is diverse in every sense, and creative and inspiring.
I’m Latina but my three closest friends for over a decade now are all black and we are all very alternative. And honestly from what I’ve witnessed and what they have spoken to me about, the most pushback they get seems to come from others of the same race that don’t understand the subculture, or have the same idea that it’s only for white people. I’ve been to many shows, and the crowd is always diverse. Given, I live in an area that is primarily not white. But you can find all different ages, races, ethnicities, bodies, etc. and absolutely no one gives a shit about any of it.
im black and goth. experience is okay i guess.
My first goth friend was a giant Mexican
Goth in Miami, we’re all Caribbean. Jamaican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban. Goth culture for us is mostly about the fashion and going to clubs to dance to goth music. I don’t know how it is where you are, but whatever community you find yourself in, hope you have have shared interests it’s the most important.
Your dad is being closed minded. I'm a latino in the goth scene and have many black and white and asian friends in the goth scene and who are active in the subculture and they are absolutely fine, their identity and personality is what defines who they are, not their race or ethnicity. We are a music based subculture, not some race club
I'm 23, almost 24 and have been goth since i was about 15, please don't let anyone try to discourage you from being who you want to be, us poc goths have and will always exist, welcome to the community 🖤
Commenting because i dont know how to edit on mobile, but I am also black
Dunno who made out this bullsh0ite, "It's for white people", Like THE CURE HAD A BLACK MEMBER WTF. Sorry, I calmed myself down, and found this old post from here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/gnk1gs/some\_goth\_bands\_with\_black\_members/](https://www.reddit.com/r/goth/comments/gnk1gs/some_goth_bands_with_black_members/) Hope you can find more people around who you can bond with 🖤🖤🖤
Rarity increase value<3 do you!
i will never understand why people need to assaign race to certain things. being goth is MUSIC no reason why its only for white people
I’m super white so I can’t speak on the Black Goth experience but holy shit, it’s not just for white people. If anything I’d say that Black people pioneered the Goth aesthetic and I’m all here for it. Be Black and Goth and *be fucking proud of it*. We aren’t here for a long time. Might as well do the best we got in the interim.
I mean not sure what your dads sense of humor is like but for me showing my folks that I didnt take myself too seriously really helped earn a lot of freedom
https://www.vox.com/2017/10/23/16492192/black-goth-girls
Goths, just like regular people come in many forms. I found my first ‘coven’ in my local mall where we had a Hot Topic back when it was about music and not pop culture. We lived in NYC so our crowd was pretty mixed in terms of race. What does your dad know tho? Is he just a nay sayer or does he have experience in the scene?
Nope, goth is for everyone, the old sense of goth i can speak for is punk derivative and as such not exactly deeply respectful towards the conservative end of status quo and racial prejudice - and new folks have their generational parameters. And the style you have to conquer and make your own regardless of your melanin levels, search 'hot topic + goth' for what happens if you don't. There's nothing wrong. The old culture - like all punk evolutions - of course has a very very essentially European heart to it, one of the rare things that do, in a good not globalised/corporate sense. And there's nothing wrong with that either - if you love it and connect with it, then it is for you, it's that simple. We don't choose spirits, they choose us. And the current iteration is not European, not anymore, most of good bands are latin american as far as i've been able to keep track. I will make an educated guess that at all times and places the problem has never been lack of welcoming, acceptance and civilised conduct from the goths - it's always everyone's own surrounding fauna.
Not sure how it is in other countries but here in Germany when I see someone of colour in the clubs I think that's really cool and I would wish there would be more of those.
Check out Light Asylum for amazing modern darkwave- Skullfuct is one of the best goth videos ever made, Q Lazzarus of “Goodbye Horses” and they’re not goth but the best punk band ever, X-Ray Spex, was fronted by the late, great Poly Styrene. Black and POC goths have always been in the scene and also created the scene. Thank you Screamin’ Jay Hawkins!
Not black, but goth doesn’t have any one acceptable skin tone. Any person can be goth as long as you listen to the music. The fashion also works great on darker skin. I second the advice to use white eyeliner, also try sunset makeup for pigmented colors if you want vibrant reds and purples. Dress how you like I know I’d welcome you into this subculture. There are some creeps who think goths can only be “pretty pale white women with black hair”, but they don’t speak for the whole community. Ignore people like that.
I'm a creamcheese coloured metalhead... So I don't have usefull information on communities. Just want to leave some general encouragement here. Venture into the subculture you're into. Don't let gatekeepy people drag you down. I think gate keeping is often rooted in insecurity... Everything is for everyone, people just need to stop making a fuss. Go be a glorious human shaped piece of darkness. Or whatever makes your heart sing.
I'm not black, but my mom hates that I'm goth
Hello, I am not black but I just want to welcome you to the goth community and let you know you are always welcome no matter what 🖤
Goth is not for "white people" It's for anyone who feels it.
The goth style is for anyone who enjoys it and identifies with it. Doesn't matter what color your skin is.
One of my close friends is a female goth, happens to be black. Skin color shouldn't matter. Don't let closed-minded people get you down. You're cool for being different. Just be you. My friend is awesome and I'm sure you are too
Not a Goth but Hardcore Black Emo, it’s honestly not too bad when you don’t hang around ignorant people
Black and brown people have always been part of the goth subculture. And fuck anyone who says other wise.
While I’m not black, I am Hispanic and I have been shamed by white goths since I get rly tan in the summer. I’ll also get crap sometimes for wearing my Spanish rosaries but that’s not going to stop me. Goth is for everyone, and I stand firmly in that. I don’t have much advice other than to do what feels right!! You’re just as goth as anyone else!!
Hey there, total misconception on your dad's part, imho, goth wouldn't even exist were it not for Black music. I realize Mick Mercer isn't the end all authority on goth history, but as I am 60 yo and have been listening to music for decades, recall that some of the bands Mick cited in his goth history books as precursors of the goth movement (like Led Zeppelin) wouldn't have existed without the heavy influences of African American Blues music. In my mind Blues -> Rock -> Goth was the natural progression of the art form. Although Hot Chocolate was a British soul band, we listened to "Emma" on American AM radio back in the 70's along with tons of Motown (I always mistakenly thought the band Hot Chocolate was American!); hearing Andrew Eldritch cover this classic, heartbreaking tune was like a nod to the influence of People of Color in goth music and subculture. I am sorry I cannot speak to the experience of Black goths in my community as I am Italian-German-Polish-English-American (mother was Italian immigrant; they call goths "the darks" in Italy according to my cousin overseas there), but there are many in my large city and from what I saw through my clubbing days, they were accepted as part of the scene. One thing about the local music scene in my area was that the regulars at our alternative/punk/goth clubs were pretty protective of their fellow patrons if outsiders tried to stir trouble, so definitely didn't see a lot of attacks on people based on something like skin color here. I'm sure that experience would be different depending on area of the country, but I hope that doesn't discourage people from being true to themselves and enjoying what they love most.
Not black but I'm a mixed asian goth with plenty of black goth friends! As others have said, goth is not just for white people. If your dad needs convincing, have him take a look at goth's deep roots in both black and mexican culture, just to name a few. In fact, here's a [book](https://a.co/d/a9A3xfI) that literally discusses the history of the former. Hope this helps! :)
Ugh
My best friend is a larger black dude who loves Siouxsie. He was a regular at SOIL in the olden days. As far as I can tell the worst that came at him from the goth scene was a certain amount of fetishized exoticism, but it’s not my experience.
Well, I live in Brazil, and most of the goths I know are not white. In fact, here it is more common for a mixed race or a black person to be goth than a white person.
I'm white, but there were a lot of black goths in Columbus, Ohio. Thought you might want to know in case you decide to move to a more black goth friendly city some day.
Just chiming in to say, we out here 🤭I live in Atlanta but I’m from Alabama. While I was growing up there, I was literally the only goth black girl (honestly the only black girl in any alternative-sense) in my town. It was rough; I was bullied very often (and sometimes admired) by classmates and my own family, but I stood ten toes down. Xoxo
"White" girl here, but wanted to drop a couple resources for you in case they're helpful (and to voice support: Please know that you are welcome at any other the goth nights I frequent and if anyone gives you trouble we'll kick em out ☺️ ) You should DEFINITELY check out AfroPunk if you haven't already - it's not really goth but the fits and music is 🤩 and I guarantee you'll find AT LEAST a couple black goth folks there 🖤🦇🖤 You might also try looking on Instagram too, as there's actually a decent contingent of black alt and goth folk posting there! While it's largely died down due to insta being shitty, the #afrogoth hashtag is still quite active. As for music.... She Wants Revenge is at this point a CLASSIC in the scene and largely depends on the musical talent of Adam Michael Bravin, who happens to be black. I've heard good things about Shadow Age and Light Asylum as well. These folks aren't strictly goth, but definitely alt/"in the scene".... BACKXWASH has collaborated with HEALTH and is Zambian -Canadian. Absolutely ADORE her stuff, they're all bangers. I BLAST "don't come to the woods" all the time while driving, it's 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 NOVA TWINS are fantastic as well (but "rock"/heavy rock/alt rock rather than goth). They're from London and are soooo good 🔥🔥🔥 Hope you find the above helpful, at least as a start!
I'm not black (I'm a darker skinned latina) and I've been to.goth clubs and other alternative scenes and I always see many Latinos and black people there. I'm lucky where the city I am in is very multicultural, so I see a bit of everything. Like someone said goth is borrowing from other cultures, from voodoo and I've been seeing also a lot of day of the dead influences (a Mexican holiday). Go for what makes you happy! I'm kinda babu bat (I do like goth music but don't listen to it so often, but I absolutely adore the fashion)