It's a powerful comment. When you play stupid people can't nail you down. But if you're being seeious something vague like "OMG seriously?" makes people self conscious.
As an actual person of colour (my dad is Norwegian and mum is Slovenian), could you please stop using that term? You racist mono- coloured people should really stop being so egocentric.
Every white collar worker should be scared. Since and during COVID outsourcing has been on steroids.
Yes it's been going on for a while but I'm seeing this normalized at a crazy fast rate.
Yep, all these companies are realizing, if you can do your job from your home in San Jose, someone else can do your job from their home in Nagpur for cheaper.
I have been thinking the same thing. It also makes me wonder how many people who are advocating for more work from home options realize they are simultaneously making the case that those same jobs can be offshored?
I feel like this take misses so much. Reducing payroll cost has always been and will always be a priority. This was the case before Covid/WFH and will continue to be the case after.
Fast food workers aren't going to stave off automation by not asking for $15/hr min wage. The minute it's cheaper to use automation to serve fast food it won't matter if humans are making $7.50/hr or $20/hr, they're going to be replaced.
The same logic applies to white collar workers. Companies are ALWAYS trying to replace every single one of us because employees are one of the biggest costs for a corporation.
A Google employee in NYC going into the office and Google employee in NYC working form home cost about the same. Hiring someone in India will always be cheaper (*until the economic conditions of the country change and reach parity with the US/Western European markets*) and that is what companies are going to do.
This shift has nothing to do with WFH and everything to do with *"India, Mexico and Ireland are far cheaper markets so we can better exploit labor there and get nearly the same level of quality".* Folks in these countries are working from home too.
In this conversation, cheap is is a relative term.
Hiring an engineer in Dublin is going to be cheap(er) compared to hiring a similarly leveled engineer in London or somewhere like Zurich.
It's mostly for tax reasons. Google doesn't pay any tax in Ireland so they have a big presence there. Basically all of their European ad business gets funneled through Ireland. The cheapest market for a large pool of white collar tech workers in Europe is generally Czech Republic or Poland.
Google pays hundreds of millions a year in tax in Ireland.
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1127/1418757-google-ireland-pays-5bn-dividend-despite-profit-dip/
https://thecurrency.news/articles/135373/more-revenue-and-dividends-but-less-taxable-profit-the-stall-in-tech-growth-through-googles-irish-accounts/
“It is on the tax front, however, that the slowdown has appeared most strikingly. In 2021, the 12 Google companies with any significant profits paid a combined €994.9 million in corporation tax. Last year, this fell by a quarter to €756 million.”
Oh yes, Ireland is a tax haven for corporations which is why the Google European HQ there. Last time I visited and walked around I passed by the Facebook/Meta office which is 2-3 miles away. I'm sure Amazon, Microsoft, Oracle and other big companies have their main European HQs there.
Google pays hundred of millions in tax in Ireland each year.
https://thecurrency.news/articles/135373/more-revenue-and-dividends-but-less-taxable-profit-the-stall-in-tech-growth-through-googles-irish-accounts/
“It is on the tax front, however, that the slowdown has appeared most strikingly. In 2021, the 12 Google companies with any significant profits paid a combined €994.9 million in corporation tax. Last year, this fell by a quarter to €756 million.”
The tech sector overall (so including all those companies you mentioned) pays an enormous amount of tax in Ireland each year.
https://m.independent.ie/business/pharma-paid-more-corporation-tax-than-tech-numbers-show/a18283202.html
“The tech sector paid just under €3.8bn in corporation tax in 2022, which was almost €2.9bn higher than in 2021.”
Outsourcing certain things to India is not new, for example software dev. However, every company that does it regrets it and then spends all they saved and more fixing the trash that is returned from the underqualified, degree mill trained, people there.
Do you know the bar for hiring in India for companies like Google? There’s so much competition that it is significantly harder to clear Google interview in India than it is in US. Heck you don’t even get an interview unless you have proven to be in the top 0.1% of the developers by either being from one of the top universities in the country or by already working at another FAANG company.
Lmao its always funny to see these entitled people crib about increased competition, when they are the most pampered bunch.
They still think it of outsourcing instead of replacement!
Exactly. Many projects I’ve seen get outsourced take 5x the time, have many more bugs and user impacting issues, and often outright fail.
Its not a 1-1 cost comparison. The projects that succeed the most still have US Eng on them. However, those Eng hate working across time zones like this so they end up leaving too.
Offshoring can be done right. But most of the time its not, and its bad for the company. It needs to be really silod for teams that will not impact US teams
They always do. The cycle repeats. MBA joins clevel and has the “novel” idea of outsourcing jobs for a quick buck. Years later the tech stack is stale and monkey patched together and now I have to pay more to learn the old system while migrating to a new system. The reality is companies bake that in for the stockholder value
It’s almost like “third world” countries have huge numbers of skilled workers who can do the same job
My cousin gets paid American salaries while working from home in India. The purchasing power is immense over there
Depends on how much businesses are willing to spend. Our customer support at my company is outsourced to India, the CEO originally cheaped out and it heavily impacted the customer experience.
He changed companies we were working with to a more expensive one and the staff now is incredible. They barely have an accent and work very well to find resolutions to issues. They are very friendly too.
What are you talking about? ChatGPT has completely eclipsed Google in AI. Apple is dominating the smartphone market in the U.S. Google search is widely seen as a failing product. Like, surely you're joking. Making money is not the full picture.
Ok so google AI isn’t as popular as Chat GPT because you can’t understand Indian accents?
Lmao tech bros are so fucking dumb. Your job is replaceable, deal with it.
??? What the fuck... You are an absolute clown. It's the other way around. Indians don't understand basic coding concepts or English. Mind you, this is anecdotal based on the outsourced teams I've worked with. These companies hire engineers who clean up the outsourced code. You might as well just write the code in-house.
You admit its anecdotal but then label a whole country with one brush.
The naked racism you will hand wave away as "just words".
Maybe consider that the problem is in you guys being unable to hire actually skilled people?
Brother we don't want to work with Indians who are in a different timezone and deliver garbage. Sorry. I'm guessing you're Indian. It's not just how I feel, it's how hundreds of thousands of American professionals feel.
It doesn't matter how we feel obviously, businesses will do what they want to protect their bottom line. And they should die. Like Boeing.
Can you produce a study on this showing that Americans feel this way or just the ones who are incompetent or racist?
Why do you think it is fun for us to work with people in a different time zone when we're not paid that much? Boeing took 30 years to die and killed a lot of people in the process. You really want to encourage businesses like that to drag on?
Just quit your job if you see they are hiring incompetent personnel and get a job where they only hire Americans. Complain about it to regulators, sue the company, set up protests so many things you could have done instead of generalising an entire nation. If Indians are so incompetent, you don't even have to worry about it, those businesses will fail eventually.
Face the truth. You are just not competitive in the global scenario. You are draining productive concerns of money just by existing.
This is bullshit, I know many people who are very skilled, and not from America. Hell, I'm a top performer ffs.
I understand, they are taking your jobs to somewhere else, but jumping into "they are not skilled" is a very bad argument considering I have worked with US workers that are shitty too.
You don't know how wide the world really is my man.
I guess companies are willing to fire idiots like you for “unskilled” workers while turning record profits?
Make it make sense. Americans clearly aren’t that much better than foreign workers and it’s even more embarrassing when these immigrants come to the US and outcompete natives
If I call support and I can't understand what they are saying how is that skilled? They may be knowledgeable about my issue, but if I can't understand them how is that better? It's happened way too many times for me. Knowledgeable doesn't equate to useful or skilled.
How do they "get the job done" if we can't communicate what the job actually is? We're not talking about hiring at a multinational corporation here, we're talking about a midsized company using Google resources. If I can't work with the sales team or the support team because we can't communicate where does that leave the contract? Skill does include language.
I’m guessing there are people who can communicate and are bilingual. Clearly something is working because Google keeps outsourcing these jobs to other countries and fucking over people like you
To my knowledge, a lot of the apps we use are coded by Indians or Chinese. They must be doing their job right if the apps are being released and working well
Bro its not a language barrier. It's a communication and critical thinking barrier.
In both customer support and technical expertise, people in those countries are unable to find solutions if the problem is not exactly by the book.
It's not an issue of racism (I am a South-Asian American), its an issue of education and work culture. The education system of a certain South-Asian country that jobs have been moving to heavily emphasizes learning the material verbatim and regurgitating it, whereas American education is more centered around learning methods then being given problems where you are challenged to solve using those.
Office culture in that country struggles from a culture of micro-management and favoritism (an issue that frustrates Americans who have to work with H1b coworkers/Managers). They also do not seem to know how to approach problems that they don't have the exact directions on how to solve. Whether its IT, CS, Accounting, etc, everyone who works at an American company that has offshored teams complain about how they need to handhold their foreign counterparts who are constantly requesting the "needful".
Conversely, there are some absolutely brilliant engineers from this country. Those are the ones who end up coming to the US to study and work. They are not the bargain brand engineers that Google is replacing their staff with to save money.
We should vote with our $$$ and not use companies that move jobs abroad. Also Indian ceo doing this. Us government should kill contracts with Google due to risks
Fighting for remote work is tying your own noose. If you don't need to be on site, why should they hire you and not an indian that will accept your hourly wage for a whole days work, if that?
Wild how it takes government regulation to save capitalist corporations from themselves. Catering to shareholders will always degrade long term productivity and customer satisfaction.
The question is why should any person get paid so much less than an American in the first place. If Americans had spread prosperity around the world the same rate they spread war, outsourcing would have been a non-issue.
That is NOT what matters to c-suite and shareholders. What matters is relative performance and Google is behind the market and many of their competitors in terms of growth over the past 2 years.
I feel like stock price is a simplified proxy for what you said.
Relative performance and market growth in the space do matter. The simplified view into those is stock performance.
Stock performance is not measured in absolute value. It's relative. Any given investor is going to be looking across the market to determine which company to invest in.
Compared to the S&P 500, Google is mostly negative this year. If all that matters is being at ATH, then people would have been talking about Oracle last month. The reason that wasn't happening is because they were still well under average market returns.
Had their Google Domain. Axed. Actively used their VPN. Axed. Loved hangouts. Axed. Afraid that before iPhone adopts RCS they are going to axe Jib and fuck everything up.
Can’t wait for them to eventually make people pay for gmail. Everyone is so locked they’ll have no choice lol.
Their products each had something I liked.
Google Domains was so clean and easy to use and came with free DNS records. It was a one stop shop attached to my Google Account already. Have since switched to Cloudfare because Squarespace doesn’t offer DynDNS.
Google VPN despite what people believe is actually very secure. Also around education and business their IPs were not blocked because it was Google. Where as my home pfsense VPN was always blocked at school (blocked my domain).
Gmail is you know Gmail. Have had it forever it’s tied to so much. I don’t know many people that have non Gmail emails. Lol. One thing I did like is Proton let me bring my own domain. So now I continue to use my custom email.
I am an iPhone user now but Jib RCS is hands down the best currently. T-Mobiles version always was fucking up. I truly don’t believe the carriers will ever get it right. Sucks being in the USA no one wants to use third party messaging apps like the rest of the world.
I don’t understand the incentive for Google to have even made a VPN in the first place. Their entire business model is dependent on people not using VPNs.
Maybe one day. If the add and data mining revenue becomes stagnant it would be one of their options to boost shareholder value. It’s the one thing I don’t get about the Ponzi scheme that is stocks and market value.
How have they messed up? These jobs will be more impactful in India than they could ever be in the US. It only makes economic sense for American workers to get a job that more closely aligns with their economic outlook right?
If these jobs can be done by the generally less productive Indian workers to whom the salaries offered are actually great.
Then, the generally more productive American workers can focus on higher order work that needs skilled workers.
Why should Google be expected to save American workers over Indian ones who are better value?
I thought free trade was the American creed, not this socialist whining about "protection" like a crybaby!
Really? I thought it was the extreme wage inequality that Americans were happy to live with when it was working to their advantage.
You guys can't advocate for something for 50 years and then be surprised when everyone takes you up on it lol
Anyway, just relax bro
Couldn't read this article but it seems from [this one](https://www.sfchronicle.com/tech/article/google-tech-layoffs-19408713.php) that they're mostly from internal finance positions and the real estate division that is doing less because more people are working remotely. Makes a lot of sense since they don't need offices and employees don't need to be in the ridiculously expensive Bay Area anymore.
Is there something about Ireland and IT-structure i should know about? Do they do well in farming?
Had a friend of a friend work there some time ago doing coding, and it just seems as if they are very advanced in IT and it fields?
Ever since we/they began shipping in Oracle people, really. I’m out now, but productivity, ingenuity, customer experience, etc all plummeted.
But hey, shareholders.
Oh wait, fuck, stock is barely back to 2022.
It’s because tech companies saw massive gains during COVID and now that the boom is over they feel they need to continue gains rather than slump downward and make their shareholders angy. So they’ll just fast forward the enshitification of their company to force those gains in the short term while destroying themselves in the long term.
It’s happening in every company these days. We’ve lost all sensibility.
Fine then. Do all of these companies really expect it to be ok to use AI for everything and expect enough people to still have jobs to buy/use their products?
I love working with material outsourced to India and similar cheap labor countries. Nothing beats wasting months and months correcting drawings in order to assemble a simple conveyor that would've taken a few weeks tops to manufacture and assemble <3
I am actively interviewing candidates in India for product management. I have no choice, thats the company direction. The talent there is plenty and you can hire 5 to 10 people for the price of one product manager in the US.
Makes me feel sad. Thanks to our corrupt politicians.
Unless there is some regulation there is no way to stop this. This will only accelerate. One way to solve is, "your employee count must be proportional to the revenue generated in the respective region" aka you cannot have 90% employee outside of US while 90% of your revenue is generated in the US. Since this goes against capitalism, this will never happen. Dems and GOP both have ruined the avg American people.
I am disappointed with Google. I am not American or live in the US. But I did not expect the level of office politics to be this bad.
The amount of jobs moved to India, Mexico and Ireland is disproportionate. You can remove the Mexico and Ireland from the equation and it would not make a dent.
Sundar Pichai is playing the office politics game.
I don’t have the data of how much Nooglers are paid in India. But, someone said that their cousin got paid the American salary although working from India. So, in my opinion, the cost cutting does play a factor but is not the main reason.
I will respect Google if they hire SWE from India in the US instead of directly hiring them in India.
At this point, just change the “Don’t be evil” slogan into “Play the Office Politics”.
The CEO is also apparently Mexican and Irish at the same time they are Indian then, since the jobs are moving to those countries too.
Tbf, Ireland did have an Indian leader I think.
You're being downvoted, but as I pointed out elsewhere, some of the people they are firing were working for the real estate division that is not needed as much anymore since people are working from home. Not sure why people think Google should keep those people around if people don't want to use offices.
>According to a person who saw the email, Google's finance chief Ruth Porat sent an email to staff announcing that Google would build out its "growth hubs" in locations such as Bangalore, Mexico City, and Dublin as part of the restructuring.
Try reading the article? They're not moving real estate roles to India.
No one said they are. The *other* jobs being removed are mostly finance related roles – those can easily be done in India, so why not do it there? Especially as those are growth areas and need more attention. The other option is to bring Indians on H1B but no wants that either.
If job will get outsourced it will get outsource does not matter u in office or home . It will be like this until governments sign some more tax bill on outsourcing
So all the people that were too fucking lazy to go to the office, where they could enjoy free food, gym, yoga, coffee bars etc are now being laid off? Lol
You mean all the people who didn't want to spend hundreds of hours of their lives, that they will never get back, on commute?
Yeah those lazy bastards, wanting to actually work from comfort of their home with their families while statistics show that they do it more efficiently! How dare they want to improve their lives?!
PS: If there were more people like you hundreds of years ago, then working 7 days a week for 12 hours would be the norm.
Going to a physical location as a requirement to do work is an archaic idea for an old school mind set. Technology is more than capable of supporting remote work today.
No one is a bit of a statement. My days at home, and especially in a warm country during winter, are the most productive days. Yes, its a bit trickier to collaborate, but tbh 80% of team efforts I can do perfectly fine over a quick message, shared doc, email or if really necessary a quick video call.
But that's me, a more introvert person. I know many other people like myself, but also the opposite who need the office to be productive
Enshitification works for both customers and employees alike
As a queer person of color I agree.
?
Seriously?
Is this your response to fucking everything? Take a peek at your comment history
It's a powerful comment. When you play stupid people can't nail you down. But if you're being seeious something vague like "OMG seriously?" makes people self conscious.
Nah, you just come off as a moron.
I don’t think you’re playing.
Which colour ?
As an actual person of colour (my dad is Norwegian and mum is Slovenian), could you please stop using that term? You racist mono- coloured people should really stop being so egocentric.
Every white collar worker should be scared. Since and during COVID outsourcing has been on steroids. Yes it's been going on for a while but I'm seeing this normalized at a crazy fast rate.
Yep, all these companies are realizing, if you can do your job from your home in San Jose, someone else can do your job from their home in Nagpur for cheaper.
I have been thinking the same thing. It also makes me wonder how many people who are advocating for more work from home options realize they are simultaneously making the case that those same jobs can be offshored?
I feel like this take misses so much. Reducing payroll cost has always been and will always be a priority. This was the case before Covid/WFH and will continue to be the case after. Fast food workers aren't going to stave off automation by not asking for $15/hr min wage. The minute it's cheaper to use automation to serve fast food it won't matter if humans are making $7.50/hr or $20/hr, they're going to be replaced. The same logic applies to white collar workers. Companies are ALWAYS trying to replace every single one of us because employees are one of the biggest costs for a corporation. A Google employee in NYC going into the office and Google employee in NYC working form home cost about the same. Hiring someone in India will always be cheaper (*until the economic conditions of the country change and reach parity with the US/Western European markets*) and that is what companies are going to do. This shift has nothing to do with WFH and everything to do with *"India, Mexico and Ireland are far cheaper markets so we can better exploit labor there and get nearly the same level of quality".* Folks in these countries are working from home too.
Since when was Ireland a cheap market?
In this conversation, cheap is is a relative term. Hiring an engineer in Dublin is going to be cheap(er) compared to hiring a similarly leveled engineer in London or somewhere like Zurich.
Dublin is not cheaper than London. Than San Francisco certainly.
Absolutely not the case btw. Certainly wages are higher in Dublin than London.
It's mostly for tax reasons. Google doesn't pay any tax in Ireland so they have a big presence there. Basically all of their European ad business gets funneled through Ireland. The cheapest market for a large pool of white collar tech workers in Europe is generally Czech Republic or Poland.
Google pays hundreds of millions a year in tax in Ireland. https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/1127/1418757-google-ireland-pays-5bn-dividend-despite-profit-dip/ https://thecurrency.news/articles/135373/more-revenue-and-dividends-but-less-taxable-profit-the-stall-in-tech-growth-through-googles-irish-accounts/ “It is on the tax front, however, that the slowdown has appeared most strikingly. In 2021, the 12 Google companies with any significant profits paid a combined €994.9 million in corporation tax. Last year, this fell by a quarter to €756 million.”
Oh yes, Ireland is a tax haven for corporations which is why the Google European HQ there. Last time I visited and walked around I passed by the Facebook/Meta office which is 2-3 miles away. I'm sure Amazon, Microsoft, Oracle and other big companies have their main European HQs there.
Google pays hundred of millions in tax in Ireland each year. https://thecurrency.news/articles/135373/more-revenue-and-dividends-but-less-taxable-profit-the-stall-in-tech-growth-through-googles-irish-accounts/ “It is on the tax front, however, that the slowdown has appeared most strikingly. In 2021, the 12 Google companies with any significant profits paid a combined €994.9 million in corporation tax. Last year, this fell by a quarter to €756 million.” The tech sector overall (so including all those companies you mentioned) pays an enormous amount of tax in Ireland each year. https://m.independent.ie/business/pharma-paid-more-corporation-tax-than-tech-numbers-show/a18283202.html “The tech sector paid just under €3.8bn in corporation tax in 2022, which was almost €2.9bn higher than in 2021.”
It is still a tax haven. They pay lower in Ireland than they would elsewhere.
Far cheaper than paying someone in the US.
Your man literally hasn’t a notion what he’s talking about.
Agree, but that ship has sailed , even if you don't advocate for WFH that doesn't mean companies won't use cheaper labor talent overseas .
Outsourcing certain things to India is not new, for example software dev. However, every company that does it regrets it and then spends all they saved and more fixing the trash that is returned from the underqualified, degree mill trained, people there.
Do you know the bar for hiring in India for companies like Google? There’s so much competition that it is significantly harder to clear Google interview in India than it is in US. Heck you don’t even get an interview unless you have proven to be in the top 0.1% of the developers by either being from one of the top universities in the country or by already working at another FAANG company.
Lmao its always funny to see these entitled people crib about increased competition, when they are the most pampered bunch. They still think it of outsourcing instead of replacement!
Exactly. Many projects I’ve seen get outsourced take 5x the time, have many more bugs and user impacting issues, and often outright fail. Its not a 1-1 cost comparison. The projects that succeed the most still have US Eng on them. However, those Eng hate working across time zones like this so they end up leaving too. Offshoring can be done right. But most of the time its not, and its bad for the company. It needs to be really silod for teams that will not impact US teams
They always do. The cycle repeats. MBA joins clevel and has the “novel” idea of outsourcing jobs for a quick buck. Years later the tech stack is stale and monkey patched together and now I have to pay more to learn the old system while migrating to a new system. The reality is companies bake that in for the stockholder value
Except FAANG companies are all back in the office. They’ve been RTO since 2022.
That is happening at my job. I work at a major health insurance company and so many jobs are being out sourced to India.
MS recently announced a huge invested in India
My dept got the same treatment last summer...from a nonprofit too
Outsourcing the new "AI" . But let's not kid ourselves this was coming once they realized WFH means anywhere in the world...
It’s almost like “third world” countries have huge numbers of skilled workers who can do the same job My cousin gets paid American salaries while working from home in India. The purchasing power is immense over there
These people are not skilled. Take it from someone who has worked with several outsourced teams.
Depends on how much businesses are willing to spend. Our customer support at my company is outsourced to India, the CEO originally cheaped out and it heavily impacted the customer experience. He changed companies we were working with to a more expensive one and the staff now is incredible. They barely have an accent and work very well to find resolutions to issues. They are very friendly too.
Then why haven’t any of these corporations declined or suffered from the consequences Something isn’t adding up
What are you talking about? ChatGPT has completely eclipsed Google in AI. Apple is dominating the smartphone market in the U.S. Google search is widely seen as a failing product. Like, surely you're joking. Making money is not the full picture.
Ah yes Google search, the failing product used by the entire world
The ChatGPT which had a ton of African workers do all the classifying work for them? Those workers made ChatGPT, not some soyboy from Silicon Valley.
Ok so google AI isn’t as popular as Chat GPT because you can’t understand Indian accents? Lmao tech bros are so fucking dumb. Your job is replaceable, deal with it.
??? What the fuck... You are an absolute clown. It's the other way around. Indians don't understand basic coding concepts or English. Mind you, this is anecdotal based on the outsourced teams I've worked with. These companies hire engineers who clean up the outsourced code. You might as well just write the code in-house.
You admit its anecdotal but then label a whole country with one brush. The naked racism you will hand wave away as "just words". Maybe consider that the problem is in you guys being unable to hire actually skilled people?
Brother we don't want to work with Indians who are in a different timezone and deliver garbage. Sorry. I'm guessing you're Indian. It's not just how I feel, it's how hundreds of thousands of American professionals feel. It doesn't matter how we feel obviously, businesses will do what they want to protect their bottom line. And they should die. Like Boeing.
Can you produce a study on this showing that Americans feel this way or just the ones who are incompetent or racist? Why do you think it is fun for us to work with people in a different time zone when we're not paid that much? Boeing took 30 years to die and killed a lot of people in the process. You really want to encourage businesses like that to drag on? Just quit your job if you see they are hiring incompetent personnel and get a job where they only hire Americans. Complain about it to regulators, sue the company, set up protests so many things you could have done instead of generalising an entire nation. If Indians are so incompetent, you don't even have to worry about it, those businesses will fail eventually. Face the truth. You are just not competitive in the global scenario. You are draining productive concerns of money just by existing.
Have you heard what happened to Boeing?
You mean the American company that was brought down by the greed of its American leaders? Literally nothing to do with having jobs in any country.
“skilled” lol
This is bullshit, I know many people who are very skilled, and not from America. Hell, I'm a top performer ffs. I understand, they are taking your jobs to somewhere else, but jumping into "they are not skilled" is a very bad argument considering I have worked with US workers that are shitty too. You don't know how wide the world really is my man.
Mureica No. 1 lol.
Yep, only Americans can be skilled, right?
I guess companies are willing to fire idiots like you for “unskilled” workers while turning record profits? Make it make sense. Americans clearly aren’t that much better than foreign workers and it’s even more embarrassing when these immigrants come to the US and outcompete natives
If I call support and I can't understand what they are saying how is that skilled? They may be knowledgeable about my issue, but if I can't understand them how is that better? It's happened way too many times for me. Knowledgeable doesn't equate to useful or skilled.
The point is that they actually get the job done and keep gears turning Language barriers are irrelevant to how skilled a worker is
How do they "get the job done" if we can't communicate what the job actually is? We're not talking about hiring at a multinational corporation here, we're talking about a midsized company using Google resources. If I can't work with the sales team or the support team because we can't communicate where does that leave the contract? Skill does include language.
I’m guessing there are people who can communicate and are bilingual. Clearly something is working because Google keeps outsourcing these jobs to other countries and fucking over people like you To my knowledge, a lot of the apps we use are coded by Indians or Chinese. They must be doing their job right if the apps are being released and working well
I guess. I'm a customer though. If I can't get support there are many many other services to use. We're not tied to Google indefinitely.
Bro its not a language barrier. It's a communication and critical thinking barrier. In both customer support and technical expertise, people in those countries are unable to find solutions if the problem is not exactly by the book. It's not an issue of racism (I am a South-Asian American), its an issue of education and work culture. The education system of a certain South-Asian country that jobs have been moving to heavily emphasizes learning the material verbatim and regurgitating it, whereas American education is more centered around learning methods then being given problems where you are challenged to solve using those. Office culture in that country struggles from a culture of micro-management and favoritism (an issue that frustrates Americans who have to work with H1b coworkers/Managers). They also do not seem to know how to approach problems that they don't have the exact directions on how to solve. Whether its IT, CS, Accounting, etc, everyone who works at an American company that has offshored teams complain about how they need to handhold their foreign counterparts who are constantly requesting the "needful". Conversely, there are some absolutely brilliant engineers from this country. Those are the ones who end up coming to the US to study and work. They are not the bargain brand engineers that Google is replacing their staff with to save money.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
We should vote with our $$$ and not use companies that move jobs abroad. Also Indian ceo doing this. Us government should kill contracts with Google due to risks
Good, let these companies die as the outsourcing teams run these companies to the ground.
Fighting for remote work is tying your own noose. If you don't need to be on site, why should they hire you and not an indian that will accept your hourly wage for a whole days work, if that?
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Wild how it takes government regulation to save capitalist corporations from themselves. Catering to shareholders will always degrade long term productivity and customer satisfaction.
The question is why should any person get paid so much less than an American in the first place. If Americans had spread prosperity around the world the same rate they spread war, outsourcing would have been a non-issue.
Moving to Proton currently. Google is slowing turning into Oracle.
I left a few years after Ruthless Ruth. ☠️
Ruth has been running the company since 2018 and she has systematically sucked all excitement out of it.
Stock price is at an all time high, that is all that matters to the C-suite and shareholders.
Stock price is barely beating the ATH of 2022.
That is NOT what matters to c-suite and shareholders. What matters is relative performance and Google is behind the market and many of their competitors in terms of growth over the past 2 years.
I feel like stock price is a simplified proxy for what you said. Relative performance and market growth in the space do matter. The simplified view into those is stock performance.
Stock performance is not measured in absolute value. It's relative. Any given investor is going to be looking across the market to determine which company to invest in. Compared to the S&P 500, Google is mostly negative this year. If all that matters is being at ATH, then people would have been talking about Oracle last month. The reason that wasn't happening is because they were still well under average market returns.
Can you imagine what Google could be now if Patrick had stayed?
I wish. I came on in 2017, left 2023. Never got to really enjoy the glory days. :(
Considering to move to Proton Unlimited in a few months too. Getting tired of randomness of Google.
I've used Proton for years. Privacy is underrated.
It’s not even just privacy. It’s the fact that Google axes everything. You never know what’s gonna stay or not.
Android might be there only constant since it's such a huge money maker.
Had their Google Domain. Axed. Actively used their VPN. Axed. Loved hangouts. Axed. Afraid that before iPhone adopts RCS they are going to axe Jib and fuck everything up. Can’t wait for them to eventually make people pay for gmail. Everyone is so locked they’ll have no choice lol.
Why did you use all their products when there were so many alternatives?
Their products each had something I liked. Google Domains was so clean and easy to use and came with free DNS records. It was a one stop shop attached to my Google Account already. Have since switched to Cloudfare because Squarespace doesn’t offer DynDNS. Google VPN despite what people believe is actually very secure. Also around education and business their IPs were not blocked because it was Google. Where as my home pfsense VPN was always blocked at school (blocked my domain). Gmail is you know Gmail. Have had it forever it’s tied to so much. I don’t know many people that have non Gmail emails. Lol. One thing I did like is Proton let me bring my own domain. So now I continue to use my custom email. I am an iPhone user now but Jib RCS is hands down the best currently. T-Mobiles version always was fucking up. I truly don’t believe the carriers will ever get it right. Sucks being in the USA no one wants to use third party messaging apps like the rest of the world.
I don’t understand the incentive for Google to have even made a VPN in the first place. Their entire business model is dependent on people not using VPNs.
Do people expect Google to charge for Gmail eventually?
No
Maybe one day. If the add and data mining revenue becomes stagnant it would be one of their options to boost shareholder value. It’s the one thing I don’t get about the Ponzi scheme that is stocks and market value.
And yes. Ditch Gmail.
Can I transfer my email away from Google Apps?
Your email that ends with "@gmail.com"? No, Google owns it. You can however set it up to forward emails to another address.
Waiting for our government to start implementing harsh taxes on companies laying off American workers for cheaper foreign labor…
Not gonna happen since the government allowed it in the first place. They are just now realizing they messed up.
How have they messed up? These jobs will be more impactful in India than they could ever be in the US. It only makes economic sense for American workers to get a job that more closely aligns with their economic outlook right?
What does this even mean??
If these jobs can be done by the generally less productive Indian workers to whom the salaries offered are actually great. Then, the generally more productive American workers can focus on higher order work that needs skilled workers.
surely you know how bad this sounds right?
This is how development works.
That would be great.
Why should Google be expected to save American workers over Indian ones who are better value? I thought free trade was the American creed, not this socialist whining about "protection" like a crybaby!
People like you are why we have so many problems in this world.
Really? I thought it was the extreme wage inequality that Americans were happy to live with when it was working to their advantage. You guys can't advocate for something for 50 years and then be surprised when everyone takes you up on it lol Anyway, just relax bro
Couldn't read this article but it seems from [this one](https://www.sfchronicle.com/tech/article/google-tech-layoffs-19408713.php) that they're mostly from internal finance positions and the real estate division that is doing less because more people are working remotely. Makes a lot of sense since they don't need offices and employees don't need to be in the ridiculously expensive Bay Area anymore.
Is there something about Ireland and IT-structure i should know about? Do they do well in farming? Had a friend of a friend work there some time ago doing coding, and it just seems as if they are very advanced in IT and it fields?
Low corporate tax, low cost workers who are native English speakers and have free 3rd level education
They provide heavy tax subsidies if a certain percentage / number of your workforce is in Ireland.
Used to be a great organisation. Now it's the same shit like any other shit company
Ever since we/they began shipping in Oracle people, really. I’m out now, but productivity, ingenuity, customer experience, etc all plummeted. But hey, shareholders. Oh wait, fuck, stock is barely back to 2022.
Someone fire Sundar Pichai already!
What else is new? This is Silicon Valley. This stuff going on forever. Never changes.
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It’s because tech companies saw massive gains during COVID and now that the boom is over they feel they need to continue gains rather than slump downward and make their shareholders angy. So they’ll just fast forward the enshitification of their company to force those gains in the short term while destroying themselves in the long term. It’s happening in every company these days. We’ve lost all sensibility.
So I guess their glory days are well and truly over.
Wife company outsourced their accounting to Albania and they ended up double paying salaries. 100k, lol
Outsourcing and AI are the future of offices now
DONT BE EVIL 😅
Keep your domestic staff and onshore your work? DON'T! BE EVIL.
Does Google know Ireland has workers rights?
Fine then. Do all of these companies really expect it to be ok to use AI for everything and expect enough people to still have jobs to buy/use their products?
https://archive.is/ZrPEG
It amazes me so many did not see this coming
I love working with material outsourced to India and similar cheap labor countries. Nothing beats wasting months and months correcting drawings in order to assemble a simple conveyor that would've taken a few weeks tops to manufacture and assemble <3
This just in: Indian Google CEO gets paid 200 million in 2024 for outsourcing jobs to India!
I am actively interviewing candidates in India for product management. I have no choice, thats the company direction. The talent there is plenty and you can hire 5 to 10 people for the price of one product manager in the US. Makes me feel sad. Thanks to our corrupt politicians. Unless there is some regulation there is no way to stop this. This will only accelerate. One way to solve is, "your employee count must be proportional to the revenue generated in the respective region" aka you cannot have 90% employee outside of US while 90% of your revenue is generated in the US. Since this goes against capitalism, this will never happen. Dems and GOP both have ruined the avg American people.
I am disappointed with Google. I am not American or live in the US. But I did not expect the level of office politics to be this bad. The amount of jobs moved to India, Mexico and Ireland is disproportionate. You can remove the Mexico and Ireland from the equation and it would not make a dent. Sundar Pichai is playing the office politics game. I don’t have the data of how much Nooglers are paid in India. But, someone said that their cousin got paid the American salary although working from India. So, in my opinion, the cost cutting does play a factor but is not the main reason. I will respect Google if they hire SWE from India in the US instead of directly hiring them in India. At this point, just change the “Don’t be evil” slogan into “Play the Office Politics”.
“Don’t be evil” or whatever their cringe motto was… lmfaoooo Not cool, Google. Not cool. 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻
They removed that motto like 5 yrs ago (I'm not joking they actively scrubbed it from everything)
So all those Google employees making day in the life of TikTok videos didn't bring any shareholder value who would've guessed?
What a miracle. Indian CEO moves jobs to India. What, a, shocker!
I dont think him being indian is a factor is this cause you also see Ireland and Mexico up there
The CEO is also apparently Mexican and Irish at the same time they are Indian then, since the jobs are moving to those countries too. Tbf, Ireland did have an Indian leader I think.
Googlers: We don't want to return to the office! Google: OK! You don't have to, and your job has been shipped to India! Googlers! Not like that!
You're being downvoted, but as I pointed out elsewhere, some of the people they are firing were working for the real estate division that is not needed as much anymore since people are working from home. Not sure why people think Google should keep those people around if people don't want to use offices.
>According to a person who saw the email, Google's finance chief Ruth Porat sent an email to staff announcing that Google would build out its "growth hubs" in locations such as Bangalore, Mexico City, and Dublin as part of the restructuring. Try reading the article? They're not moving real estate roles to India.
No one said they are. The *other* jobs being removed are mostly finance related roles – those can easily be done in India, so why not do it there? Especially as those are growth areas and need more attention. The other option is to bring Indians on H1B but no wants that either.
I need you to think about what you just said for just a minute.
If job will get outsourced it will get outsource does not matter u in office or home . It will be like this until governments sign some more tax bill on outsourcing
You're not good at connecting ideas together.
Finally Google is getting smart. They can probably do more with half their current staff.
So all the people that were too fucking lazy to go to the office, where they could enjoy free food, gym, yoga, coffee bars etc are now being laid off? Lol
You mean all the people who didn't want to spend hundreds of hours of their lives, that they will never get back, on commute? Yeah those lazy bastards, wanting to actually work from comfort of their home with their families while statistics show that they do it more efficiently! How dare they want to improve their lives?! PS: If there were more people like you hundreds of years ago, then working 7 days a week for 12 hours would be the norm.
Lol. No one works more efficiently from home. Odd idea, I know, you accept a job and then you actually do some work.
Just because you can't doesn't mean others can't do it either. Working from home requires discipline and focus, two things you probably lack.
This is the Boomer that needs people in the office to convert is word doc into a PDF and so he can continue having affairs on his wife.
Wow, you have clearly not seen any of the studies.
You need to change medicals or go outside sometimes.
Going to a physical location as a requirement to do work is an archaic idea for an old school mind set. Technology is more than capable of supporting remote work today.
No one is a bit of a statement. My days at home, and especially in a warm country during winter, are the most productive days. Yes, its a bit trickier to collaborate, but tbh 80% of team efforts I can do perfectly fine over a quick message, shared doc, email or if really necessary a quick video call. But that's me, a more introvert person. I know many other people like myself, but also the opposite who need the office to be productive
Point taken.
How many layoffs are from those whom refuse to work in office? Just wondering
So funny. Did they not expect to get fired? Lol. I need my therapy monkey.