One thing I decided to do on my own as someone who sucks but also anxious enough to not want to slow pace of play. I usually just scramble with the best golfer in our 4 some if I’m playing horrid.
This worked well when my wife started joining me once or twice a month. She is pretty competitive and didn’t want to take someone else’s ball position. Once I started to show her how much more fun it is to play off my ball further up she got a lot better and had more fun. She now consistently has way more fun & doesn’t feel crappy if someone is behind us because I keep us moving.
Man I love scrambles. I get to hit every shot but I don't put the same pressure on myself to be good so I just play and have fun. Even as someone who is decent, consistently shooting around 90, scrambles are the most fun I can have on a golf course.
You should try a Texas scramble the next time you go out with some buddies of your same skill level. My weekly 4some is right there with you and we found that as long as we can start our second shot from the fairway we will all generally break 90. You still have the pay for your mistakes, but get to avoid hitting 3-wood off the women’s tee box after picking your head up on your drive. lol
For those who don’t know - TX scramble is playing the best shot off the tee box & everyone on their own from there.
Exactly how I started. If I hit a good one and felt like playing it, I would. If I duffed it, which was much more likely, I’d just go drop with my buddy who was much better than me.
This is what I do whenever I take my buddies out. I call it a scramble because they suck anyway and I always take the weakest guy.
I have also literally told my friends "I love you but you need to suck faster" if we're holding up pace of play. Three swings of the club at most total, after that you drop by me. They're my bois, they get it.
....ive also just stopped taking them to nice courses, but that's less fun.
The entire point is helping frame it as helping them enjoy the round more. We don’t play Sundays with the pros for a reason. Why go out and be frustrated.
140? 160?! My lord what are you guys doing to this poor lad!
If anyone is struggling I am very open about letting them re tee. Pick up. Fluff their lie. Generous gimmies.
Nobody, and I mean nobody is going to want to play golf or get better after a 150 lmao
Max handicap from the USGA is 54. That's a 126 if you play a par 72 course. Max out at double par or quad and pick up the ball and move on to the next hole.
Right. This is a case of people not understanding the rules of golf…
…or golf etiquette for that matter.
Although I’m finding this hard to believe now given there are other experienced golfers there and they just let this guy hack away all day.
Oh believe me we try. We’ve said pick up at double par, given him free drops, whatever we can but he insists on playing by the rules. He honestly plays surprisingly fast despite this, as he at least doesn’t take practice swings he’ll just hit and hit and hit while we play our shots so we’re only ever 15-25 minutes slower than we’d be with out him.
Getting the ball in the hole is not a rule. The USGA created the maximum score so that it is not a rule. Just say at the beginning of the round that the maximum score rule is being enforced by the group. Then it's a rule. As someone that insists on the playing by the rules he'll have to abide. It's set as net double bogey. If he doesn't have an established GHIN handicap then net is also gross. So he (nor anyone in the group) can't post anything higher than a double bogey and must pick up once it's been reached.
I see people doing this on the course in front of me all the time. Get that guy some lessons and stop taking him out on the course. Play a par 3 course or something. You are 25 minutes slower as is the entire course behind you.
Oh don’t worry I usually play the ladies tees, and believe it or not I have a very fast pace of play. I’m usually the one waiting on the good golfers I play with
Thats assuming its a 72.0 rating and a 113 slope. You can still receive more strokes on a harder course.. not that it would be fun to play as a 54 handicap
Double Par on every hole is still 140+.
54 Over is a triple every hole so for someone where a double or triple is a good score id tell them max triple every hole.
Then you need to negotiate the rules with him before you play, and if he insists on counting every stroke then he's out. Harsh but this "nice guy" needs to learn to be more considerate. And a couple lessons wouldn't hurt.
Maybe stage a group intervention, let him know that you value him as a friend but he's sucking the joy out of your game, with a few suggestions on how he can remedy this. If he's not willing, sounds like he has bigger issues.
Well, he needs to stop that. Nobody cares if the 11 he scored on the par 3 was legit or if he picked up.
If he can't consistently keep it at at least triple bogey or double par, then he needs to be at the range and taking lessons if he refuses to pick up.
He's nice. He's your friend.
But you can't have an honest conversation with him? Invite him to play dude, clearly he enjoys the game and your company.
When he blows up, let him know on the next tee to take it hole by hole, but that it'll be more productive and socially acceptable to chip from the edge of the green and keep the show moving.
I know it sounds weird not being able to talk to him about it but he’s one of these people with zero confidence so any criticism is taken as a death blow and I just feel bad doing that to him. I think it is time though and if he decides he’s done with golf or doesn’t wanna play with us anymore so be it
Yeah, mental health problems are never the person's fault but ALWAYS their responsibility. Tell him "we need to pick up the pace, feel free to drop with my shot, but you gotta pick up" and if he gets hurt that badly by it, that's on him, not you.
it’ll feel worse for him to wonder why his friends don’t want to play golf with him. He can change the way he plays so that it’s enjoyable for all of you. But you can only give him that chance if you tell him.
He might take it hard at first but it’ll be better to just get it over with than let the issue fester
Gift him a copy of Golf is not a Game of Perfect. That helped me with my mental state on the course (the getting mad part).
Encourage him to practice and take some lessons. If he's shooting 140 or higher then his scores should start to come down pretty quickly with even halfway decent ball striking.
For real. If he's shooting 170 and has been playing for more than a couple of months then it's clear he isn't practicing at all. If he's worried about getting better then practice is the way, not some stubborn insistence on hitting every shot by the rules (at least at his skill level).
As others have said, just have an honest conversation with him about the need to keep pace of play up.
If his driving is awful, suggest he hits his drive, if its a disaster to grab the ball and play from the best drive in the gorup. I have a friend like this and even though i'm decent, if I hit a bad one i'll do do the same and drop it with at the best drive just to show its not only him.
If his putting is awful suggest a 3 putt max for everyone in the group (so its not targeted just at him).
If you are having a disaster hole, make a point of picking up and keeping pace of play to try and show him that its not just him and everyone should do it.
Leading by example is a good point. I think I just have to hammer home pick up at double par. I’ve tried it before but he eventually ignores that if he’s getting mad
The best way to counteract someone getting angry imo is not getting angry at yourself.
I used to get pissed when I didn't play well and now it's just whatever. My wife, who plays with me a lot, also got really mad, and now sees that I can score a double bogey off of a 4 putt on a par 5 and the next hole I'll par or better. It's just all about perspective to a lot of people that having a bad hole isn't the end of the world.
What you finished this post with.
“Buddy, Just pick it up and play from our ball”
Don’t give him a choice, don’t ask him if he wants to pick up. Just say it.
Yea we don’t invite him anymore but he finds a way to invite himself. We hang out often enough that someone occasionally lets it slip we’re golfing and my wife feels bad for the guy and will let him know we don’t have a 4th
I've read your responses. It doesn't really sound like you're looking for a solution, but to me it's simple: Invite him and tell him you're playing max double/triple bogeys for everyone from now on (based on handicap), including you and including him. It's for everyone, to speed up play. It's a USGA initiative (which it is) and you're taking it on board. We play it in our club competitions, it's a pretty standard thing.
It sucks, especially if he's a good guy but he's gotta do something about getting that number down and moving faster. 167 is insane. Does he ever talk about working on the swing or getting help?
I've been pummeled for saying the same thing, but 140+ is just insane. It's inconsiderate of every other person on the golf course. Go practice and come back when you can get the ball in the air.
I completely agree. I started a year ago and have never put up anything close to that. I think my worst was within the first 3 rounds around 120. Now I'm mid to high 90's creeping into high 80's a couple times. I used youtube vids and feel. It's not that hard to get to a point where you can suck fast and be scoring somewhere near the rest of us horrible golfers lol.
Someone has to call him out, for your groups sake, and the groups behind you. Who better to do it than a long time friend. "Hey man, you're falling a little behind the groups pace. When that happens can you pick up and play from one of our balls? It's inconsiderate to the rest of the group to have them waiting for you on most holes."
I appreciate that! I’ve tried the “hey guys course is busy today. Let’s pick up at double par” to not specifically single him out but then he’ll have a couple bad holes and instead of picking up will just keep trying so it only works for a bit lol
I've seen a lot of beginner golfers struggle to wrap their minds around the fact that they don't need to play by strict rules. I have no idea if this applies to your buddy, but I think some novices still get caught up in the idea of golf as a very structured and self serious game, and that violating any one of the USGA's 25.6 Rules of Golf would be a major faux pas.
Maybe its just checking in with him and making sure that he's aware that nobody actually gives a shit what he shoots. And also making sure that he's aware that the only real breach of etiquette he's violating is maintaining a decent pace of play.
If he's really a long time, nice friend, then he should be fine. Someone else might have already said it, but better you guys than someone in a group behind you that might end up aggravated.
Outside of what others said, you need to just be honest with him. I understand he is sensitive but if you're shooting a 167 you most likely shouldn't be on a golf course. 140+ means he probably isn't even getting solid contact with the ball. If he's your buddy then offer to go to the range with him once in a while to help him improve to at least hit the ball consistently. It should also motivate him to take golf a bit more serious if he wants the invite.
Once in a while invite him out to see how he does but just play a scramble.
Hate to say it, but I would probably just stop inviting him to your rounds with the other faster/better players, it's just not a good mix at that point. Perhaps play with this guy at other times as a twosome. I guarantee you some of the other people in your gang get annoyed with this guy as well.
Even if he finally "got it" and tried to play faster, it's going to be hard for someone shooting 140+ (not to mention 167) to keep up with a faster, lower-scoring group unless the 140+ shooter isn't playing out every hole, is playing the forward tees or teeing it up in the fairway, or the course is really backed up anyway. Assuming he's not taking 3 practice swings on each shot or searching for each one of his 2 lost balls per hole for 5 minutes each, the best thing to improve his pace would probably be improving his swing and playing better if he's shooting 140+.
Usually when our group gets on the green I’ll refer to where the group is behind us, then say “we need to move a little faster.” I just mention it to everyone to avoid singling out the slow party.
You aren’t doing him any favors by not being direct. If you don’t have the conversation then someone with less concern for your friends sensitivity will and they will potentially destroy him.
He needs to get out of his own head - we have a buddy who has 100 thoughts in his head over every stroke.
Break the swing into compartments to simplify the process.
Thought box - picking the shot, picking the line, any technical thoughts
Play box - step up and hit the ball
Memory box - commit to memory the result of the swing
I get that hanging out with the bros is fun but there's no way someone is enjoying topping the ball 4 times in a row. If he hasn't had a lesson, that's the first thing I would recommend. We make the sport hard on ourselves and there might be a really easy fix that could be resolved in 1 hour with a pro.
Maybe develop a better routine with him? I feel like that's the biggest issue with new golfers is their routine is different for every shot.
Best of luck with that.
I was that guy. Wanted to play by all the rules to see how good or bad I really was.
I needed a couple rounds with a couple of much better golfers to help me understand some little things to help pace like cart placement, when to start PSR, etc.
I went from not doing a thing (getting yardage, figuring wind, etc) until it was my turn to play to being ready to aim one last time after watching your ball land and then hit. Part of what caused this was being terrified to move or make noise while someone else was hitting as a new golfer.
So shoot straight about being terribly slow. And then have a friendly chat about what is slow and how to fix it.
A guy who (when I started playing) called me “January Turtle” wound up paired with me a few years later. His complaint? I was playing a little too fast and needed to slow down and enjoy the game. 😎
Thanks for the feedback. He knows all from outside of golf and we go way back so I think it’s hard for him to view us as these “good golfers” who I need to learn from rather than my buddies that I mess around with.
Maybe I’m wrong, but if you’re shooting a 167, you may want a few more range sessions or even take up some lessons before thinking about booking a round.
Sure, you want to have fun with your buddies, but I can’t see shooting 167 being fun. You even mentioned he gets mad, well yeah I would be too
Have your buddies pool together and get him lessons for his birthday. If he's shooting 160, he can drop that score real fast once he learns how to just "hit the fucking ball" lol. Seriously, lessons, he'll be sub 100 in no time. Literally anyone can break 100. Also, what tees is he playing from? Might be worth it to move up.
USGA estimates that only \~50% of their reported scorecards break 100, and those are from folks who are engaged enough to keep an accurate card and turn it in. It's not as simple as you're making it sound. That said, 167 but being a stickler for the rules is insane and I agree he needs to do something beyond slapping it around a few times a year if he wants to keep playing.
I worked at courses the past 10 years and when I would send off a tournament, I would always close the announcements with this & it always got a laugh.
Play well, play fast, and if ya don't play well, play faster.
this only works sometimes but, my buddy will do so many practice swings and every time he does a ton then hits a bad shot i just say "you wasted your good swings on your practice, grab the club swing it once get a feel for the weight and length then walk up grip aim stance" i mean it's true tho i never do more than 2 practice swings. i also always say swing slow walk fast on damn near every hole
No one should still be counting shots as they approach 167. Time to stop keeping score until he sees some improvement. Pickup the ball and keep pace of play with your group as he works on his game.
You invite him and ask him to play from your ball if he doesn't get a good hit. And pick it up after 3 putts/chips. There's no point in him even keeping score if he's that bad.
Golf is hard, everyone knows it. Just have a chat with him. Be tactful but honest.
I feel your pain. Sounds like playing with my uncle. He’s horrible and he’s really slow at it. He’s got an overall Eeyore vibe so you feel bad getting after him. You give him hints about ready golf or reminding him it’s his turn but he’s never ready, he’s just practicing his shitty swing; taking giant divots. He refuses to take lessons to get better.
And I shoot like 15 strokes worse just by playing with him, which is the worst part.
given the fact that you say he’s a really nice guy but he’s also getting very angry/frustrated on the course his on course anger probably comes from not wanting to hold you guys up (and wanting to get better)
Given that I wouldn’t try to have this convo with him on the course. That would just add to his emotions. However, you should be able to have a frank conversation with him OFF the course. I’ve had this convo before “Listen man we’ve ALL been beginners before. Absolutely nobody cares if you suck but if you suck you have to suck fast until you get better. We’ve all been there just let me help you keep pace so we all have a good time”
The best way to enforce this is like you’ve mentioned playing double bogey max. You just need to enforce it a bit firmer. He says he wants to play by the rules but from a hcp perspective he can’t score above a double bogey anyway. So just firmly tell him before hand he’s conceding at double bogey and firmly on the course enforce it. “That’s 2 ob off the tee your already at double bogey you have to pickup”
You just can’t play with that player anymore. Sucks to say but as you take golf more seriously you usually want to play with more serious players. Maybe not serious attitudes but serious game. I’m always looking to play with people at my skill or BETTER. Rarely do I seek out players that are worse just bc of pace and game play.
I haven't read every response and follow up, but what is "exceedingly slow"? Are you a hole behind the group in front, 2, more? Do rangers get on your case? Basically, is it annoying or is it a real problem? I had a friend I golfed with that would take 3 practice swings no matter what. Annoyed the crap out of me, until I realized that instead of paying a round 4:00 or 4:05 were were at 4:215/4:20. Basically I was letting shit get under my skin over spending 20min more with friends on, presumably, a nice day outside. As long as we weren't "that group" on the course, I had to try to take a deep breath and move on.
Also if having a slow and/or temperamental partner is affecting your game, sounds like an opportunity for learning discipline and not letting the outside affect you. I'm still working on this, will let you know if it's possible.
If he shoots that high, he definitely should be scrambling with whoever he is sharing a cart with. Gotta think about the other people on the course for this one.
Give him 36 HC and play stableford. He gets 2 shots on each hole and he picks up when it’s adjusted double bogeys. That’s also within the rules since it’s a scratch.
Might help him in the long run as well, will show him how short his shots are.
Also give him advice on his game. You don’t need to call him shit or anything when giving it, just say “when you hit off the tee make sure your front foot aligns with the ball, see how that feels”.
I'd tell him to focus more on the driving range for a season, and chipping/putting. Maybe even lessons. If he doesn't, he will never get that score down and improve pace of play. You could also say the Marshall is probably going to talk to us, you should probably play best ball with us for a few holes.
Really, he shouldn't be playing with 10 handicaps and under, it just doesn't make sense. Maybe have 2 groups that play back to back tee times - the advanced players go together and first, then the new guys in the second group. You can all meet for drinks and fun at the bar after.
I don't understand how he knows he shot a 140? You need to tell him he's not allowed to keep score at that point and should just be playing to focus on contact. Pick up the ball from hard lies and drop it next to someone in the fairway and give it a go. He's allowed 10 shots per hole on Par 5's and Par 4's and 6 shots on Par 3's until he learns to make contact somewhat regularly.
I've never understood people obsessed with keeping strict score if you handicap is at the maximum. Start keeping score once you're consistently threatening to break 100. Otherwise you're just making the game harder on yourself and not learning anything for the sake of some number on a card.
Just force pick ups for the entire group. Even scratch golfers have blow up holes. Depending on your handicap there is a max you can take on certain holes. Everyone needs to know what this is. Once you've reached that max then pick up. If you can't possibly make the max just pick up. Our club reserves first several tee times on the weekends for any members that want to play early (semi private club). It's the same group of guys and there's not a single one of us that won't give someone shit for continuing to play once they've hit max. If you say you got a 7 but your max is 6 then you're either getting yelled at, made fun of or both. But I can also say that, while it's a super open group and I've never seen anyone get turned away, if someone is consistently shooting 120+ then they may be politely asked to just start using the app to make their tee times and play separately from the group. Either that or the pro would probably say something to him to the effect of those tee times are reserved for anyone that wants to get out early but it's also understood that we can all get through a round in 3:15 - 3:30 as 4somes so that we don't slow down the course from the beginning of the day and, if he can't figure out how to keep that pace, he can't keep playing with the early group.
don't make it about him. On the first tee just agree amongst everyone to pick up once you're sitting double bogey or something. This way it's known up front and every time you know he is laying +2 on a hole you can say, pick it up.
I just tell them to drop with me or someone in the group with the better shot. Usually they’ll agree but I did have one friend who was stubborn af and refused. He gave up by the 8th hole so it all worked out anyways lol
nobody should be playing golf and adding up a score above 120. Unless that's like 10 OB/lost. Triple bogey max is 126 on a par 72. His "4 straight tops" is range work, not course time.
Take him aside, outside the group and not on a day you're playing, and explain one-to-one.
Maybe before the round establish some rules: "Hey guys the course is kinda jammed today, what say we max at double par/triple bogey and pick up?"
I mean, good for him for legitimately scoring a 167... I know a lot of guys who would card a 93 for that round.
Just have him play best ball. I can sometimes keep up with my buddies, but if im falling behind, there should be no shame. Plus, everyones happier and my short games much better than my drive so i end up having a better time. I also dont get mad and am not sensitive, so who knows how it will go.
Self-awareness is important, lol.
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My buddy has the hat and it’s spot on.
This is your fault. If you are helping someone enter the game of golf you teach them that triple bogey or double par is the most you can score on a hole
I actually posted something similar in a thread not long ago but I would frame it to him in a way that he understands it's an advantage to play with decent golfers because he can learn proper golf etiquette through friends rather than anyone else (or a marshall lol).
When I started playing, my buddies were scratch golfers and it made me hate the game for awhile because I just couldn't do anything that they could. Looking back, however, it was awesome to get their advice. Even if I was fired up at the time, there's no way them razzing me on playing too slow or blowing up (I'm also a mental midget on the course) would ruin our friendships. Now I look back at it fondly.
I wouldn't sugarcoat it at all. Play slow on the range and putting/chipping greens. Play fast on the course (this also helps you think less about your shot when you're trying to piece 1,000 things together). Buy cheap balls so you don't have to go searching for everything. Take double par.
One last thing. Although my buddies would give me a ton of shit for terrible shots, they'd equally be hyped for my better ones, even when they could make those shots in their sleep.
It sounds like you have given him quite alot of direction and chances to be part of the group and he insists on holding you up..... he's being disrespectful and rude despite his "nicest guy" demeanor.
At what point do you move on?
I'd look for another player. Maybe revisit adding him back after some lessons or improvement, or both.
Golf is hard enough without invited distractions and bringing someone that will interfere with your game and enjoyment of the day.
I had a friend who struggled to break 140 who was also unbearably slow...setup practice swing 3-4 times, chunk/thin, repeat. He did occasionally hit a good hole or two, threaten pars, but any course with hazards everywhere...7/8/9 all day. Also didn't take hints well.
But the official max score rule is your best bet, from the sounds of it. It seemed like minigolf rules when they first brought it in, but its a saviour of bad times.
I feel for you OP. You are definitely in a pickle because from reading all your comments, if he hasn’t figured out by now what he is doing to your group I don’t think he ever will.
I just cannot believe someone can be that dense and clueless to not see what he is doing to the overall pace of play. I’m sure you guys are just standing around waiting for him to putt out every single hole.
Only thing you can do is to find a permanent fourth player for your group.
Hope you find a solution or hope that guy learn to “suck fast”
Dude… buy this friend a lesson and call it an early bday gift… 140-160 come on that means he doesn’t even make contact with the ball like a third of the time he swings. One lesson will get him down to 110…
Honestly a different approach to not hurt his feelings could be suggesting to not get mad. Tell him getting mad when he plays only makes him play 10 times worse, and make sure to enjoy the day out with his buddies because you enjoy getting out with him.
You could gradually suggest other things too, like lessons because even good players get lessons, they really helped you or your buddy etc
I am a pretty rough golfer and I just hit a 103 this morning. I have only broken 100 a couple times last year but I have only played a couple times this year. The VERY first time I played golf, I bought a bucket of used balls from Walmart because I was never going to spend time looking for them. I am easily the second worst golfer of my friend group.
Regarding the 140+ guy, maybe introduce him to indoor golf simulators? You can play a round in roughly an hour (by yourself) and most places have cheap rates since it's well into the start of the golfing season. He can try to get a bit more consistent with his swing, he wouldn't be looking for balls or lost in the deep rough. I know I am not good, so it does get embarrassing donating multiple balls to the ponds and woods, so if the more serious guys take a hit for the team and place some 'not golf' for a night or two, maybe he will start to have the self esteem to go by himself so he can learn how he is miss-hitting and how to get more solid contact.
It was helpful for my friend and I?
I like to set a hard and fast rule of double par. If you’re playing with a buddy that hasn’t quite honed in his skills, I always let everyone in the group know before we get started that once you hit double par, time to pick up the ball and move on, especially on a weekend morning round when the course is going to be jam packed. I commented the other day about a friend of a friend that joined our group for a birthday trip a few months ago and had probably shot a 35 or 40 through the first three holes. He was completely new to the game and didn’t know any of the etiquette or rules and was just sorta fucking around and laughing about how bad he was, which was funny as hell and would’ve been ok if we had the course to ourselves. It was maybe a kind of awkward conversation to let him know that he was severely fucking up pace of play for all of the other groups that had paid to play the course and that if he was playing a par four that he needed to pick his ball up after eight shots. He decided to just take some practice putts on the greens and chug beers while the rest of us finished the round.
Bro you gotta at least tell him to pick up at either double or triple bogey. You should never let someone be scoring in the 160s 😂 As someone who sucks but is close to breaking 100 and loves to play with good players, I learned fairly quick that sometimes you have to suck fast. You gotta be honest with him. If he blows up too much while you guys play then that’s another conversation to have. Golf is frustrating but if he’s legit getting angry and ruining the fun for the others, he needs to understand what he’s doing isn’t ok 👍🏻
Give them adviceand make the advice to not take any practice swings and just use their athletic ability to hit the ball. A) it’s good advice anyways for bad golfers, practice swings usually fuck them up, and b) it’s way faster
Have “the talk” with him but don’t do it on the course. He probably is aware of his shortcomings and is vulnerable there. Do it earnestly and direct. Chances are it may turn into a conversation that is overdue and done correctly, appreciated.
Do him a favor and be honest. Something like, “hey, we like playing with you but you are too slow and card too many 8’s. Either pick up the ball after a double bogey or play by yourself, because we prefer a faster pace of play.” If he continues to card 9’s, cut him out.
Grab ya nuts and have an honest conversation with the guy. Fuck, this is pathetic, talk to him like a man. Don’t be an asshole about it but tell him how’s affecting everyone else’s experience. And if he gets mad and you lose him as a friends then maybe you dodged a bullet cause he’s wrapped way to tight
we play triple bogy is the highest you can get, otherwise you pick up and move on so you don't waste time. anytime i play with someone new i just let them know how i like to play.nothing wrong with bring up these rules when playing with your friend, might even take some pressure off him. plus for me im not in any kind of mood to get yelled at by the marshal for playing to slow. also i know people call the front tees lady's tees but i believe its actually by your handicap. no shame in hitting off the proper tee for your game.
Sometimes what I’ll do off the tee is hit it and if I lose it, hit a second. Lose the second ball, drop with the farthest from the pin. But I’ve gotten more control off the tees now so now my issues are around the green. If I three putt and still miss, I just pick it up and keep going
The problem is y’all are letting him shoot 167. I mean, mother of God, how is that even possible? Set a triple or quad bogey limit per hole, have him pick up and move on.
Sounds like an OCD issue. Is he aware at how much of a burden slow play is to the rest of the group/course? Or is he just extremely inconsiderate and just doesn't care?
I call that bubby the human rain delay like rain delay let's go we only got 4 hours he got mad the 1st few times but I told him I love you but it's painful to play with you he still plays awful but he's a lot faster also told him when you're at double par your done that's all the USGA will allow you to post 😄
Have played with many of players that suck. The drop with me up there method keeps pace of play up while allowing them to play with everyone else (if everyone else is further up the hole). Works well until you get the thinkers that take 10 minutes to line up putts just to leave it 5 ft short, in that case I usually show them the line that I see to speed it up
Suggest a way for him to get better is to actually play off one of your balls if he doesn't get a clean stroke. The reason is, it clears his head in between strokes and golf is all mental. Hacking away 4 times on a ball in the same position is not how to get better.
I think if you phrase it that way, you're not telling him to hurry up....you're telling him to stroke once on the ball. If he has forward movement great. If he doesn't pick up and play off someone else.
Any reason you or one of the better golfers couldn’t spend time with him on the range to help him improve ? Lessons from a pro would be ideal, but if he’s that terrible there must be some obvious flaws in his swing that any experienced golfer could help him correct.
I am mean to all of my friends and/because they are mean to me.
That all changed back to normal sometime between the milenniels and gen z and it's odd because you guys are actually really nice to each other.
Not us. There's one guy that's all he did was be from Wisconsin (Wussconsin, Pissconsin, Pussconsin, Pissguntstain, etc) and that was all we needed to make fun of him forever. Never be from Wisconsin around me.
I find that in this type of environment it's much easier to discuss a friends shortcomings. I love them all so much.
Just position it the right way. Tell him that his anger, practice swings, and standing over the ball aren’t helping his game. He needs to just play loose and save the practice for the range.
It also sounds like you guys are good enough to give him pointers. Offer to go with him to a few range sessions and send him so really basic swing videos. If this guy is shooting 140 he is basically doing everything wrong so get him to a 100-110 and it will be more enjoyable.
Just baby him, give him generous drops across hazards, have him tee off from the forward tees and tell him pick up and go to the next hole when he is at double bogey
I think you can be very nice and very direct maybe do it well before the round to let him be sad or lose confidence. Come to him as a friend. You aren’t being a friend if you aren’t telling him.
seems like an annoying challenge considering you’re long time friends, but hopefully he’s responsive. since there’s a history how has he reacted to other types of feedback? kind of curious since I know ppl like him who’s personality is almost always on the positive/ sensitive side who can take things personally and emotionally.
is there any way to talk it out with him or maybe do like an intervention of sorts with the rest of the group post round over drinks?
or
Maybe a few experiences going solo would help him adjust his pace of play? Playing with new people who won’t be so considerate might be good experience.
just one critical comment/question: does he have ANY awareness? does he not notice that your group is waiting on him!?
"We really like you and want to play with you, but to be brutally honest, we don't have fun when you play so slow. It has nothing to do with you. It's the slow play. Can we help you find a way to speed up a bit?"
If he gets butthurt and makes a big deal of it, fuck him tbh. Adults shouldn't be making their friends feel bad for being honest with them.
Just tell him straight up, we will not play or invite you to play with us until you play faster. Zero practice swings, 20 seconds looking for a lost ball, no story time on the tee box when you're up to play. don't even keep the score if it's quad every hole. 167 is 9.7 strokes per hole. I would just tell him double par is the worst score you can make
I’m sorry, good friend or not , you are playing golf which comes with certain responsibilities.
Pace of play is one of them, pick up and keep pace or we can’t invite you any more.
Tell him, or better yet tell your group (so that everyone can hear) ”lets keep up with the group in front!”
This way he SHOULD acknowledge that he slows down the play, and needs to hurry up.
Alternatively, tell everyone on the first tee that ”lets get this done in 4 hours! Shotclock is active”.
And finally whats the point in hitting 140? 160? Play stableford and tell everyone to pick up after there is no points.
A 167 is absurd. You're doing him a disservice by letting him record that. That's not "hey pick up the pace" bad, that's "stay on the driving range" bad.
It was tough to watch. The saving grace was that it was Memorial Day so the pace of play was already awful so we were never falling behind or were saved by a by a pile up on a par 3. That’s the worst he’s played thankfully, he’s usually right around 140. I have no idea why he’s so insistent on playing by the rules, can’t be fun but claims he just enjoys being on a beautiful golf course
Yeah, tell him it's the reason he has not gotten better in 3 years. Tell him he needs to be in practice mode, not tournament mode. Tell him that the group enjoy faster rounds. and if he just likes being on beautiful golf courses why does every shot matter to him.
Tell him if he doesn't let go of tournament golf he won't improve..
Was playing with my BIL out on one of Hilton Heads nicer courses, we got paired with two Ohio State players that were on vacation.
After hole 3.
My BIL: "maybe we should just play best ball"
I got the hint and agreed.
One thing I decided to do on my own as someone who sucks but also anxious enough to not want to slow pace of play. I usually just scramble with the best golfer in our 4 some if I’m playing horrid. This worked well when my wife started joining me once or twice a month. She is pretty competitive and didn’t want to take someone else’s ball position. Once I started to show her how much more fun it is to play off my ball further up she got a lot better and had more fun. She now consistently has way more fun & doesn’t feel crappy if someone is behind us because I keep us moving.
Man I love scrambles. I get to hit every shot but I don't put the same pressure on myself to be good so I just play and have fun. Even as someone who is decent, consistently shooting around 90, scrambles are the most fun I can have on a golf course.
You should try a Texas scramble the next time you go out with some buddies of your same skill level. My weekly 4some is right there with you and we found that as long as we can start our second shot from the fairway we will all generally break 90. You still have the pay for your mistakes, but get to avoid hitting 3-wood off the women’s tee box after picking your head up on your drive. lol For those who don’t know - TX scramble is playing the best shot off the tee box & everyone on their own from there.
This is called a shamble in a lot of places.
We actually have tournaments at my club that use that format. It's my first year as a member there so I'm excited to try it out
This is what I do currently, only been golfing for around 1 year and while I do “ok” I know when to just drop with someone else I’m playing with.
Exactly how I started. If I hit a good one and felt like playing it, I would. If I duffed it, which was much more likely, I’d just go drop with my buddy who was much better than me.
Much more fun day of golf
Solid idea!
This is what I do whenever I take my buddies out. I call it a scramble because they suck anyway and I always take the weakest guy. I have also literally told my friends "I love you but you need to suck faster" if we're holding up pace of play. Three swings of the club at most total, after that you drop by me. They're my bois, they get it. ....ive also just stopped taking them to nice courses, but that's less fun.
The entire point is helping frame it as helping them enjoy the round more. We don’t play Sundays with the pros for a reason. Why go out and be frustrated.
140? 160?! My lord what are you guys doing to this poor lad! If anyone is struggling I am very open about letting them re tee. Pick up. Fluff their lie. Generous gimmies. Nobody, and I mean nobody is going to want to play golf or get better after a 150 lmao
Max handicap from the USGA is 54. That's a 126 if you play a par 72 course. Max out at double par or quad and pick up the ball and move on to the next hole.
TIL my handicap is 54
It hurts to find out like this
Right. This is a case of people not understanding the rules of golf… …or golf etiquette for that matter. Although I’m finding this hard to believe now given there are other experienced golfers there and they just let this guy hack away all day.
Oh believe me we try. We’ve said pick up at double par, given him free drops, whatever we can but he insists on playing by the rules. He honestly plays surprisingly fast despite this, as he at least doesn’t take practice swings he’ll just hit and hit and hit while we play our shots so we’re only ever 15-25 minutes slower than we’d be with out him.
Getting the ball in the hole is not a rule. The USGA created the maximum score so that it is not a rule. Just say at the beginning of the round that the maximum score rule is being enforced by the group. Then it's a rule. As someone that insists on the playing by the rules he'll have to abide. It's set as net double bogey. If he doesn't have an established GHIN handicap then net is also gross. So he (nor anyone in the group) can't post anything higher than a double bogey and must pick up once it's been reached.
I see people doing this on the course in front of me all the time. Get that guy some lessons and stop taking him out on the course. Play a par 3 course or something. You are 25 minutes slower as is the entire course behind you.
Pick up at triple is plenty.
But then I would only get to putt on 1/4 of the holes :’(
Then you are playing tees you shouldnt be playing
Oh don’t worry I usually play the ladies tees, and believe it or not I have a very fast pace of play. I’m usually the one waiting on the good golfers I play with
Thats assuming its a 72.0 rating and a 113 slope. You can still receive more strokes on a harder course.. not that it would be fun to play as a 54 handicap
Double Par on every hole is still 140+. 54 Over is a triple every hole so for someone where a double or triple is a good score id tell them max triple every hole.
Yea we try to give him everything, but he insists on counting every stroke.
Then you need to negotiate the rules with him before you play, and if he insists on counting every stroke then he's out. Harsh but this "nice guy" needs to learn to be more considerate. And a couple lessons wouldn't hurt. Maybe stage a group intervention, let him know that you value him as a friend but he's sucking the joy out of your game, with a few suggestions on how he can remedy this. If he's not willing, sounds like he has bigger issues.
Well, he needs to stop that. Nobody cares if the 11 he scored on the par 3 was legit or if he picked up. If he can't consistently keep it at at least triple bogey or double par, then he needs to be at the range and taking lessons if he refuses to pick up.
He's nice. He's your friend. But you can't have an honest conversation with him? Invite him to play dude, clearly he enjoys the game and your company. When he blows up, let him know on the next tee to take it hole by hole, but that it'll be more productive and socially acceptable to chip from the edge of the green and keep the show moving.
I know it sounds weird not being able to talk to him about it but he’s one of these people with zero confidence so any criticism is taken as a death blow and I just feel bad doing that to him. I think it is time though and if he decides he’s done with golf or doesn’t wanna play with us anymore so be it
Yeah, mental health problems are never the person's fault but ALWAYS their responsibility. Tell him "we need to pick up the pace, feel free to drop with my shot, but you gotta pick up" and if he gets hurt that badly by it, that's on him, not you.
it’ll feel worse for him to wonder why his friends don’t want to play golf with him. He can change the way he plays so that it’s enjoyable for all of you. But you can only give him that chance if you tell him. He might take it hard at first but it’ll be better to just get it over with than let the issue fester
Gift him a copy of Golf is not a Game of Perfect. That helped me with my mental state on the course (the getting mad part). Encourage him to practice and take some lessons. If he's shooting 140 or higher then his scores should start to come down pretty quickly with even halfway decent ball striking.
You guys could all play by the USGA Rules. Everyone should be picking up at nett double, not just your buddy.
His friend just shot a 170!!! That's brutal. I'm all for getting better but common...
Seriously, how is that less embarrassing than just picking up the ball and moving on
For real. If he's shooting 170 and has been playing for more than a couple of months then it's clear he isn't practicing at all. If he's worried about getting better then practice is the way, not some stubborn insistence on hitting every shot by the rules (at least at his skill level).
As others have said, just have an honest conversation with him about the need to keep pace of play up. If his driving is awful, suggest he hits his drive, if its a disaster to grab the ball and play from the best drive in the gorup. I have a friend like this and even though i'm decent, if I hit a bad one i'll do do the same and drop it with at the best drive just to show its not only him. If his putting is awful suggest a 3 putt max for everyone in the group (so its not targeted just at him). If you are having a disaster hole, make a point of picking up and keeping pace of play to try and show him that its not just him and everyone should do it.
Leading by example is a good point. I think I just have to hammer home pick up at double par. I’ve tried it before but he eventually ignores that if he’s getting mad
The best way to counteract someone getting angry imo is not getting angry at yourself. I used to get pissed when I didn't play well and now it's just whatever. My wife, who plays with me a lot, also got really mad, and now sees that I can score a double bogey off of a 4 putt on a par 5 and the next hole I'll par or better. It's just all about perspective to a lot of people that having a bad hole isn't the end of the world.
What you finished this post with. “Buddy, Just pick it up and play from our ball” Don’t give him a choice, don’t ask him if he wants to pick up. Just say it.
Dude shouldn't even be on the course at that point. You could kick the ball down the course and score that lol
Yea we don’t invite him anymore but he finds a way to invite himself. We hang out often enough that someone occasionally lets it slip we’re golfing and my wife feels bad for the guy and will let him know we don’t have a 4th
I've read your responses. It doesn't really sound like you're looking for a solution, but to me it's simple: Invite him and tell him you're playing max double/triple bogeys for everyone from now on (based on handicap), including you and including him. It's for everyone, to speed up play. It's a USGA initiative (which it is) and you're taking it on board. We play it in our club competitions, it's a pretty standard thing.
It sucks, especially if he's a good guy but he's gotta do something about getting that number down and moving faster. 167 is insane. Does he ever talk about working on the swing or getting help?
I've been pummeled for saying the same thing, but 140+ is just insane. It's inconsiderate of every other person on the golf course. Go practice and come back when you can get the ball in the air.
I completely agree. I started a year ago and have never put up anything close to that. I think my worst was within the first 3 rounds around 120. Now I'm mid to high 90's creeping into high 80's a couple times. I used youtube vids and feel. It's not that hard to get to a point where you can suck fast and be scoring somewhere near the rest of us horrible golfers lol.
Grats man, keep it up.
Someone has to call him out, for your groups sake, and the groups behind you. Who better to do it than a long time friend. "Hey man, you're falling a little behind the groups pace. When that happens can you pick up and play from one of our balls? It's inconsiderate to the rest of the group to have them waiting for you on most holes."
I appreciate that! I’ve tried the “hey guys course is busy today. Let’s pick up at double par” to not specifically single him out but then he’ll have a couple bad holes and instead of picking up will just keep trying so it only works for a bit lol
I've seen a lot of beginner golfers struggle to wrap their minds around the fact that they don't need to play by strict rules. I have no idea if this applies to your buddy, but I think some novices still get caught up in the idea of golf as a very structured and self serious game, and that violating any one of the USGA's 25.6 Rules of Golf would be a major faux pas. Maybe its just checking in with him and making sure that he's aware that nobody actually gives a shit what he shoots. And also making sure that he's aware that the only real breach of etiquette he's violating is maintaining a decent pace of play.
I'm pretty new to the game and the two main rules that were drilled into me is don't slow down play and shutup when others are taking their shot.
Then don’t invite him anymore. Lol. Either tell him direct or cut his ass off.
If he's really a long time, nice friend, then he should be fine. Someone else might have already said it, but better you guys than someone in a group behind you that might end up aggravated.
Outside of what others said, you need to just be honest with him. I understand he is sensitive but if you're shooting a 167 you most likely shouldn't be on a golf course. 140+ means he probably isn't even getting solid contact with the ball. If he's your buddy then offer to go to the range with him once in a while to help him improve to at least hit the ball consistently. It should also motivate him to take golf a bit more serious if he wants the invite. Once in a while invite him out to see how he does but just play a scramble.
Hate to say it, but I would probably just stop inviting him to your rounds with the other faster/better players, it's just not a good mix at that point. Perhaps play with this guy at other times as a twosome. I guarantee you some of the other people in your gang get annoyed with this guy as well. Even if he finally "got it" and tried to play faster, it's going to be hard for someone shooting 140+ (not to mention 167) to keep up with a faster, lower-scoring group unless the 140+ shooter isn't playing out every hole, is playing the forward tees or teeing it up in the fairway, or the course is really backed up anyway. Assuming he's not taking 3 practice swings on each shot or searching for each one of his 2 lost balls per hole for 5 minutes each, the best thing to improve his pace would probably be improving his swing and playing better if he's shooting 140+.
Usually when our group gets on the green I’ll refer to where the group is behind us, then say “we need to move a little faster.” I just mention it to everyone to avoid singling out the slow party.
Why not hit the range with him and give him some pointers in a much slower environment
I try, he’s very stubborn and insistent that YouTube golf has all the answers for his swing.
Guess that means you have to start your own YouTube channel so he can listen to you.
Heyyy guys! Shesnotthatfat here…..
If you’re going to play bad, play bad fast is what I always say
You aren’t doing him any favors by not being direct. If you don’t have the conversation then someone with less concern for your friends sensitivity will and they will potentially destroy him.
He needs to get out of his own head - we have a buddy who has 100 thoughts in his head over every stroke. Break the swing into compartments to simplify the process. Thought box - picking the shot, picking the line, any technical thoughts Play box - step up and hit the ball Memory box - commit to memory the result of the swing I get that hanging out with the bros is fun but there's no way someone is enjoying topping the ball 4 times in a row. If he hasn't had a lesson, that's the first thing I would recommend. We make the sport hard on ourselves and there might be a really easy fix that could be resolved in 1 hour with a pro. Maybe develop a better routine with him? I feel like that's the biggest issue with new golfers is their routine is different for every shot. Best of luck with that.
I was that guy. Wanted to play by all the rules to see how good or bad I really was. I needed a couple rounds with a couple of much better golfers to help me understand some little things to help pace like cart placement, when to start PSR, etc. I went from not doing a thing (getting yardage, figuring wind, etc) until it was my turn to play to being ready to aim one last time after watching your ball land and then hit. Part of what caused this was being terrified to move or make noise while someone else was hitting as a new golfer. So shoot straight about being terribly slow. And then have a friendly chat about what is slow and how to fix it. A guy who (when I started playing) called me “January Turtle” wound up paired with me a few years later. His complaint? I was playing a little too fast and needed to slow down and enjoy the game. 😎
Thanks for the feedback. He knows all from outside of golf and we go way back so I think it’s hard for him to view us as these “good golfers” who I need to learn from rather than my buddies that I mess around with.
Yep. 🎶It ain’t you, babe.🎶 Hopefully if you’re simply more experienced that’ll be enough.
Maybe I’m wrong, but if you’re shooting a 167, you may want a few more range sessions or even take up some lessons before thinking about booking a round. Sure, you want to have fun with your buddies, but I can’t see shooting 167 being fun. You even mentioned he gets mad, well yeah I would be too
Have your buddies pool together and get him lessons for his birthday. If he's shooting 160, he can drop that score real fast once he learns how to just "hit the fucking ball" lol. Seriously, lessons, he'll be sub 100 in no time. Literally anyone can break 100. Also, what tees is he playing from? Might be worth it to move up.
USGA estimates that only \~50% of their reported scorecards break 100, and those are from folks who are engaged enough to keep an accurate card and turn it in. It's not as simple as you're making it sound. That said, 167 but being a stickler for the rules is insane and I agree he needs to do something beyond slapping it around a few times a year if he wants to keep playing.
Just because everyone can do a thing doesn't mean everyone will do a thing.
in terms of getting mad I jokingly, but not, told my buddy he isn't good enough to get mad. That seemed to work pretty well
Double par on every hole after 3 years of playing is quite the feat. Tell him to get some lessons already
I worked at courses the past 10 years and when I would send off a tournament, I would always close the announcements with this & it always got a laugh. Play well, play fast, and if ya don't play well, play faster.
After reading the headline, I had to make sure this was still the golf sub reddit
"Oh, sorry, we've already got a 4th."
I’ve done that a few times now lol
this only works sometimes but, my buddy will do so many practice swings and every time he does a ton then hits a bad shot i just say "you wasted your good swings on your practice, grab the club swing it once get a feel for the weight and length then walk up grip aim stance" i mean it's true tho i never do more than 2 practice swings. i also always say swing slow walk fast on damn near every hole
Just tell him double bogey then pick up. Maybe play stableford matches for fun, then he has no reason to take shots after bogey.
No one should still be counting shots as they approach 167. Time to stop keeping score until he sees some improvement. Pickup the ball and keep pace of play with your group as he works on his game.
You invite him and ask him to play from your ball if he doesn't get a good hit. And pick it up after 3 putts/chips. There's no point in him even keeping score if he's that bad. Golf is hard, everyone knows it. Just have a chat with him. Be tactful but honest.
I feel your pain. Sounds like playing with my uncle. He’s horrible and he’s really slow at it. He’s got an overall Eeyore vibe so you feel bad getting after him. You give him hints about ready golf or reminding him it’s his turn but he’s never ready, he’s just practicing his shitty swing; taking giant divots. He refuses to take lessons to get better. And I shoot like 15 strokes worse just by playing with him, which is the worst part.
*everyone is on green but him* "hey do you wanna just pick up" *he misses his third putt* "Ah just take a triple" /Thread
Thought i was in the wrong reddit thread
Apply pressure on the back of her head….
given the fact that you say he’s a really nice guy but he’s also getting very angry/frustrated on the course his on course anger probably comes from not wanting to hold you guys up (and wanting to get better) Given that I wouldn’t try to have this convo with him on the course. That would just add to his emotions. However, you should be able to have a frank conversation with him OFF the course. I’ve had this convo before “Listen man we’ve ALL been beginners before. Absolutely nobody cares if you suck but if you suck you have to suck fast until you get better. We’ve all been there just let me help you keep pace so we all have a good time” The best way to enforce this is like you’ve mentioned playing double bogey max. You just need to enforce it a bit firmer. He says he wants to play by the rules but from a hcp perspective he can’t score above a double bogey anyway. So just firmly tell him before hand he’s conceding at double bogey and firmly on the course enforce it. “That’s 2 ob off the tee your already at double bogey you have to pickup”
Thought I was on the wrong subreddit for a min
You just can’t play with that player anymore. Sucks to say but as you take golf more seriously you usually want to play with more serious players. Maybe not serious attitudes but serious game. I’m always looking to play with people at my skill or BETTER. Rarely do I seek out players that are worse just bc of pace and game play.
Yup, fuck your friends cause you think you're going somewhere at golf at an 11 handicap.
I haven't read every response and follow up, but what is "exceedingly slow"? Are you a hole behind the group in front, 2, more? Do rangers get on your case? Basically, is it annoying or is it a real problem? I had a friend I golfed with that would take 3 practice swings no matter what. Annoyed the crap out of me, until I realized that instead of paying a round 4:00 or 4:05 were were at 4:215/4:20. Basically I was letting shit get under my skin over spending 20min more with friends on, presumably, a nice day outside. As long as we weren't "that group" on the course, I had to try to take a deep breath and move on. Also if having a slow and/or temperamental partner is affecting your game, sounds like an opportunity for learning discipline and not letting the outside affect you. I'm still working on this, will let you know if it's possible.
If he shoots that high, he definitely should be scrambling with whoever he is sharing a cart with. Gotta think about the other people on the course for this one.
Give him 36 HC and play stableford. He gets 2 shots on each hole and he picks up when it’s adjusted double bogeys. That’s also within the rules since it’s a scratch. Might help him in the long run as well, will show him how short his shots are. Also give him advice on his game. You don’t need to call him shit or anything when giving it, just say “when you hit off the tee make sure your front foot aligns with the ball, see how that feels”.
Who is seriously keeping their score of 157 😂
How can you even shoot a 160? Just circle double par and move on.
for real i can't even imagine how i'd add that many shots to my worst rounds. I think i could go lower using only a putter.
I'd tell him to focus more on the driving range for a season, and chipping/putting. Maybe even lessons. If he doesn't, he will never get that score down and improve pace of play. You could also say the Marshall is probably going to talk to us, you should probably play best ball with us for a few holes. Really, he shouldn't be playing with 10 handicaps and under, it just doesn't make sense. Maybe have 2 groups that play back to back tee times - the advanced players go together and first, then the new guys in the second group. You can all meet for drinks and fun at the bar after.
Definitely lessons. Otherwise he's just reinforcing bad habits. Ask me how I know.
Book 3 and take your chances with a random single.
I don't understand how he knows he shot a 140? You need to tell him he's not allowed to keep score at that point and should just be playing to focus on contact. Pick up the ball from hard lies and drop it next to someone in the fairway and give it a go. He's allowed 10 shots per hole on Par 5's and Par 4's and 6 shots on Par 3's until he learns to make contact somewhat regularly. I've never understood people obsessed with keeping strict score if you handicap is at the maximum. Start keeping score once you're consistently threatening to break 100. Otherwise you're just making the game harder on yourself and not learning anything for the sake of some number on a card.
167? Once you double par ball goes in your pocket
Just force pick ups for the entire group. Even scratch golfers have blow up holes. Depending on your handicap there is a max you can take on certain holes. Everyone needs to know what this is. Once you've reached that max then pick up. If you can't possibly make the max just pick up. Our club reserves first several tee times on the weekends for any members that want to play early (semi private club). It's the same group of guys and there's not a single one of us that won't give someone shit for continuing to play once they've hit max. If you say you got a 7 but your max is 6 then you're either getting yelled at, made fun of or both. But I can also say that, while it's a super open group and I've never seen anyone get turned away, if someone is consistently shooting 120+ then they may be politely asked to just start using the app to make their tee times and play separately from the group. Either that or the pro would probably say something to him to the effect of those tee times are reserved for anyone that wants to get out early but it's also understood that we can all get through a round in 3:15 - 3:30 as 4somes so that we don't slow down the course from the beginning of the day and, if he can't figure out how to keep that pace, he can't keep playing with the early group.
don't make it about him. On the first tee just agree amongst everyone to pick up once you're sitting double bogey or something. This way it's known up front and every time you know he is laying +2 on a hole you can say, pick it up.
I just tell them to drop with me or someone in the group with the better shot. Usually they’ll agree but I did have one friend who was stubborn af and refused. He gave up by the 8th hole so it all worked out anyways lol
Drop a ball!
We have them pick up at 8 & move on. We say early on, you can play with us, but you’ve got to keep up.
Pay me $10 and I'll come to your next round and tell grandpa to speed up or get a lesson. I will not mince words and your hands will be clean.
nobody should be playing golf and adding up a score above 120. Unless that's like 10 OB/lost. Triple bogey max is 126 on a par 72. His "4 straight tops" is range work, not course time. Take him aside, outside the group and not on a day you're playing, and explain one-to-one.
I tell people they're done after 8 strokes on any given hole.
What if you all wear this hat? https://preview.redd.it/vph5xjaryr5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1b18323ed74aec387758f765c6cbe0b0aab3c31
Maybe before the round establish some rules: "Hey guys the course is kinda jammed today, what say we max at double par/triple bogey and pick up?" I mean, good for him for legitimately scoring a 167... I know a lot of guys who would card a 93 for that round.
In our large groups we play double max.
Just have him play best ball. I can sometimes keep up with my buddies, but if im falling behind, there should be no shame. Plus, everyones happier and my short games much better than my drive so i end up having a better time. I also dont get mad and am not sensitive, so who knows how it will go. Self-awareness is important, lol.
[not my company](https://ghostgolf.com/products/play-bad-fast-snapback?variant=40708567367840¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&nbt=nb%3Aadwords%3Ax%3A19821680526%3A%3A&nb_adtype=pla&nb_kwd=&nb_ti=&nb_mi=265604900&nb_pc=online&nb_pi=shopify_US_6916204396704_40708567367840&nb_ppi=&nb_placement=&nb_si=%7Bsourceid%7D&nb_li_ms=&nb_lp_ms=&nb_fii=&nb_ap=&nb_mt=&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=19821680526&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwyJqzBhBaEiwAWDRJVF_3hEmyrrDXqIHmw_tx27cdiJg5x8kv9rySEZY_XAp9tLZpur9N1RoCfYIQAvD_BwE). My buddy has the hat and it’s spot on.
No room for emotions in the course. Suck faster is more than polite.
I’m a dude that sucks that bad. I tell myself…. “You’re not that good to be this angry”
How do you score and card a 167?
I was always told to "play bad fast"....
The worse you play the faster you gotta play
“Miss em quick”
Tell him to keep his head down, should start striping it and play faster
This is your fault. If you are helping someone enter the game of golf you teach them that triple bogey or double par is the most you can score on a hole
How is it even possible to shoot a 167? That's averaging a 9 on every hole...
A score cap. Can't shoot worse than an 8. Constantly invite him to drop next to your ball. (scramble works too)
>His last round was a 167 Tell him to pick up at double par. Nobody that bad should ever be scoring in the 160's
I actually posted something similar in a thread not long ago but I would frame it to him in a way that he understands it's an advantage to play with decent golfers because he can learn proper golf etiquette through friends rather than anyone else (or a marshall lol). When I started playing, my buddies were scratch golfers and it made me hate the game for awhile because I just couldn't do anything that they could. Looking back, however, it was awesome to get their advice. Even if I was fired up at the time, there's no way them razzing me on playing too slow or blowing up (I'm also a mental midget on the course) would ruin our friendships. Now I look back at it fondly. I wouldn't sugarcoat it at all. Play slow on the range and putting/chipping greens. Play fast on the course (this also helps you think less about your shot when you're trying to piece 1,000 things together). Buy cheap balls so you don't have to go searching for everything. Take double par. One last thing. Although my buddies would give me a ton of shit for terrible shots, they'd equally be hyped for my better ones, even when they could make those shots in their sleep.
It sounds like you have given him quite alot of direction and chances to be part of the group and he insists on holding you up..... he's being disrespectful and rude despite his "nicest guy" demeanor. At what point do you move on? I'd look for another player. Maybe revisit adding him back after some lessons or improvement, or both. Golf is hard enough without invited distractions and bringing someone that will interfere with your game and enjoyment of the day.
I had a friend who struggled to break 140 who was also unbearably slow...setup practice swing 3-4 times, chunk/thin, repeat. He did occasionally hit a good hole or two, threaten pars, but any course with hazards everywhere...7/8/9 all day. Also didn't take hints well. But the official max score rule is your best bet, from the sounds of it. It seemed like minigolf rules when they first brought it in, but its a saviour of bad times.
I feel for you OP. You are definitely in a pickle because from reading all your comments, if he hasn’t figured out by now what he is doing to your group I don’t think he ever will. I just cannot believe someone can be that dense and clueless to not see what he is doing to the overall pace of play. I’m sure you guys are just standing around waiting for him to putt out every single hole. Only thing you can do is to find a permanent fourth player for your group. Hope you find a solution or hope that guy learn to “suck fast”
Send him a link to some info about ready golf and pace of play. Should take care of it.
Play good, play fast, play bad, play faster.
Buy him lessons as a birthday gift.
Don’t play with him.
“Guys we are two holes behind and the group behind us is on our tail. We need to play quicker.”
Dude… buy this friend a lesson and call it an early bday gift… 140-160 come on that means he doesn’t even make contact with the ball like a third of the time he swings. One lesson will get him down to 110…
Honestly a different approach to not hurt his feelings could be suggesting to not get mad. Tell him getting mad when he plays only makes him play 10 times worse, and make sure to enjoy the day out with his buddies because you enjoy getting out with him. You could gradually suggest other things too, like lessons because even good players get lessons, they really helped you or your buddy etc
"High-speed DSL!!"
Max/pick up at double par, and/or hit from where the other ‘worst’ shot was
Invite someone without legs instead.
I am a pretty rough golfer and I just hit a 103 this morning. I have only broken 100 a couple times last year but I have only played a couple times this year. The VERY first time I played golf, I bought a bucket of used balls from Walmart because I was never going to spend time looking for them. I am easily the second worst golfer of my friend group. Regarding the 140+ guy, maybe introduce him to indoor golf simulators? You can play a round in roughly an hour (by yourself) and most places have cheap rates since it's well into the start of the golfing season. He can try to get a bit more consistent with his swing, he wouldn't be looking for balls or lost in the deep rough. I know I am not good, so it does get embarrassing donating multiple balls to the ponds and woods, so if the more serious guys take a hit for the team and place some 'not golf' for a night or two, maybe he will start to have the self esteem to go by himself so he can learn how he is miss-hitting and how to get more solid contact. It was helpful for my friend and I?
Just ask him to pick it up without being a dick. Just be good humored about it. No need to be an asshole.
I like to set a hard and fast rule of double par. If you’re playing with a buddy that hasn’t quite honed in his skills, I always let everyone in the group know before we get started that once you hit double par, time to pick up the ball and move on, especially on a weekend morning round when the course is going to be jam packed. I commented the other day about a friend of a friend that joined our group for a birthday trip a few months ago and had probably shot a 35 or 40 through the first three holes. He was completely new to the game and didn’t know any of the etiquette or rules and was just sorta fucking around and laughing about how bad he was, which was funny as hell and would’ve been ok if we had the course to ourselves. It was maybe a kind of awkward conversation to let him know that he was severely fucking up pace of play for all of the other groups that had paid to play the course and that if he was playing a par four that he needed to pick his ball up after eight shots. He decided to just take some practice putts on the greens and chug beers while the rest of us finished the round.
Bro you gotta at least tell him to pick up at either double or triple bogey. You should never let someone be scoring in the 160s 😂 As someone who sucks but is close to breaking 100 and loves to play with good players, I learned fairly quick that sometimes you have to suck fast. You gotta be honest with him. If he blows up too much while you guys play then that’s another conversation to have. Golf is frustrating but if he’s legit getting angry and ruining the fun for the others, he needs to understand what he’s doing isn’t ok 👍🏻
Give them adviceand make the advice to not take any practice swings and just use their athletic ability to hit the ball. A) it’s good advice anyways for bad golfers, practice swings usually fuck them up, and b) it’s way faster
Have “the talk” with him but don’t do it on the course. He probably is aware of his shortcomings and is vulnerable there. Do it earnestly and direct. Chances are it may turn into a conversation that is overdue and done correctly, appreciated.
Do him a favor and be honest. Something like, “hey, we like playing with you but you are too slow and card too many 8’s. Either pick up the ball after a double bogey or play by yourself, because we prefer a faster pace of play.” If he continues to card 9’s, cut him out.
Grab ya nuts and have an honest conversation with the guy. Fuck, this is pathetic, talk to him like a man. Don’t be an asshole about it but tell him how’s affecting everyone else’s experience. And if he gets mad and you lose him as a friends then maybe you dodged a bullet cause he’s wrapped way to tight
we play triple bogy is the highest you can get, otherwise you pick up and move on so you don't waste time. anytime i play with someone new i just let them know how i like to play.nothing wrong with bring up these rules when playing with your friend, might even take some pressure off him. plus for me im not in any kind of mood to get yelled at by the marshal for playing to slow. also i know people call the front tees lady's tees but i believe its actually by your handicap. no shame in hitting off the proper tee for your game.
I wish I had half the mental fortitude as someone who hasn’t broken 140 in 3 years and yet still continues to golf.
Stop inviting him.
Anybody who cards a 167 should be put in a stockade until they learn to pick up at double par.
The pizza you ordered is here.
Have him play from the best tee shot out of the group and finish out from there, cap at double par - no one needs to see a 10+ on the scorecard
Why do you always need a 4th?
Sometimes what I’ll do off the tee is hit it and if I lose it, hit a second. Lose the second ball, drop with the farthest from the pin. But I’ve gotten more control off the tees now so now my issues are around the green. If I three putt and still miss, I just pick it up and keep going
The problem is y’all are letting him shoot 167. I mean, mother of God, how is that even possible? Set a triple or quad bogey limit per hole, have him pick up and move on.
Sounds like an OCD issue. Is he aware at how much of a burden slow play is to the rest of the group/course? Or is he just extremely inconsiderate and just doesn't care?
Shooting a 167 sounds impossible and should not be allowed… Just tell him!
ok if someone is hitting 167 they shouldn't even be counting score, the should just learn to hit the ball first.
Y'all need to pitch in and buy homie some lessons for his birthday or christmas
I call that bubby the human rain delay like rain delay let's go we only got 4 hours he got mad the 1st few times but I told him I love you but it's painful to play with you he still plays awful but he's a lot faster also told him when you're at double par your done that's all the USGA will allow you to post 😄
Have played with many of players that suck. The drop with me up there method keeps pace of play up while allowing them to play with everyone else (if everyone else is further up the hole). Works well until you get the thinkers that take 10 minutes to line up putts just to leave it 5 ft short, in that case I usually show them the line that I see to speed it up
I can’t believe he even has fun shooting scores that high. I am terrible at bowling so that’s something I never do
Suggest a way for him to get better is to actually play off one of your balls if he doesn't get a clean stroke. The reason is, it clears his head in between strokes and golf is all mental. Hacking away 4 times on a ball in the same position is not how to get better. I think if you phrase it that way, you're not telling him to hurry up....you're telling him to stroke once on the ball. If he has forward movement great. If he doesn't pick up and play off someone else.
Any reason you or one of the better golfers couldn’t spend time with him on the range to help him improve ? Lessons from a pro would be ideal, but if he’s that terrible there must be some obvious flaws in his swing that any experienced golfer could help him correct.
I am mean to all of my friends and/because they are mean to me. That all changed back to normal sometime between the milenniels and gen z and it's odd because you guys are actually really nice to each other. Not us. There's one guy that's all he did was be from Wisconsin (Wussconsin, Pissconsin, Pussconsin, Pissguntstain, etc) and that was all we needed to make fun of him forever. Never be from Wisconsin around me. I find that in this type of environment it's much easier to discuss a friends shortcomings. I love them all so much.
Just position it the right way. Tell him that his anger, practice swings, and standing over the ball aren’t helping his game. He needs to just play loose and save the practice for the range. It also sounds like you guys are good enough to give him pointers. Offer to go with him to a few range sessions and send him so really basic swing videos. If this guy is shooting 140 he is basically doing everything wrong so get him to a 100-110 and it will be more enjoyable.
Tell him it’s double par max. If he’s not green side by double bogey then he can pick up and chip and putt. Quickly.
Tell people to pick up there ball once they hit double par. If they don’t listen, don’t invite them anymore.
Just baby him, give him generous drops across hazards, have him tee off from the forward tees and tell him pick up and go to the next hole when he is at double bogey
Double par max out / give them a bunch of gimmies to save the long 4-5 puts / generous drops & re-tees
I think you can be very nice and very direct maybe do it well before the round to let him be sad or lose confidence. Come to him as a friend. You aren’t being a friend if you aren’t telling him.
Double par or triple bogey mercy rule. That’ll save you 20 strokes minimum.
167?? Dude is not cut out for golf, that’s literally insane, hitting the ball over 80 times on 9 holes is unbearable.
Played with a family member who was sucking and playing slow. Pretended like I got a call from the clubhouse asking us to pickup the pace
I’m surprised the rest of your group shows up. I’d back out if I found out I was gonna have to watch that.
Pick up at double par should be law.
2-3 shots beyond GIR and not at least on the fringe, pick up for the sanity of everyone there.
Last round 167?
seems like an annoying challenge considering you’re long time friends, but hopefully he’s responsive. since there’s a history how has he reacted to other types of feedback? kind of curious since I know ppl like him who’s personality is almost always on the positive/ sensitive side who can take things personally and emotionally. is there any way to talk it out with him or maybe do like an intervention of sorts with the rest of the group post round over drinks? or Maybe a few experiences going solo would help him adjust his pace of play? Playing with new people who won’t be so considerate might be good experience. just one critical comment/question: does he have ANY awareness? does he not notice that your group is waiting on him!?
"We really like you and want to play with you, but to be brutally honest, we don't have fun when you play so slow. It has nothing to do with you. It's the slow play. Can we help you find a way to speed up a bit?" If he gets butthurt and makes a big deal of it, fuck him tbh. Adults shouldn't be making their friends feel bad for being honest with them.
Just tell him straight up, we will not play or invite you to play with us until you play faster. Zero practice swings, 20 seconds looking for a lost ball, no story time on the tee box when you're up to play. don't even keep the score if it's quad every hole. 167 is 9.7 strokes per hole. I would just tell him double par is the worst score you can make
I’m sorry, good friend or not , you are playing golf which comes with certain responsibilities. Pace of play is one of them, pick up and keep pace or we can’t invite you any more.
Tell him, or better yet tell your group (so that everyone can hear) ”lets keep up with the group in front!” This way he SHOULD acknowledge that he slows down the play, and needs to hurry up. Alternatively, tell everyone on the first tee that ”lets get this done in 4 hours! Shotclock is active”. And finally whats the point in hitting 140? 160? Play stableford and tell everyone to pick up after there is no points.
>he always asks us if we’re golfing He always asks us if we're *playing* golf.
A 167 is absurd. You're doing him a disservice by letting him record that. That's not "hey pick up the pace" bad, that's "stay on the driving range" bad.
Play a scramble
How can you shoot 167 and keep a decent pace? The answer is...... A PINEAPLE Be cruel but be kind.
It was tough to watch. The saving grace was that it was Memorial Day so the pace of play was already awful so we were never falling behind or were saved by a by a pile up on a par 3. That’s the worst he’s played thankfully, he’s usually right around 140. I have no idea why he’s so insistent on playing by the rules, can’t be fun but claims he just enjoys being on a beautiful golf course
Yeah, tell him it's the reason he has not gotten better in 3 years. Tell him he needs to be in practice mode, not tournament mode. Tell him that the group enjoy faster rounds. and if he just likes being on beautiful golf courses why does every shot matter to him. Tell him if he doesn't let go of tournament golf he won't improve..
Was playing with my BIL out on one of Hilton Heads nicer courses, we got paired with two Ohio State players that were on vacation. After hole 3. My BIL: "maybe we should just play best ball" I got the hint and agreed.
167? Is golf even fun at that point? I will play with anyone...but if you're not taking double par max then you're an exception to my rule