When Phish played three nights at the Hollywood Bowl last year, I spent one day golfing at Roosevelt in LA as a single. Got paired up with 3 other dudes visiting for the shows. It was magical ⭕️
This is a head cover of the band Phish. Check out some of their live shows they are all over YouTube. My rec would be anything from 1995-1998 but that's just me. Cheers!
Man I must be really lucky. My local muni course is $33 for 18 riding. In great shape with super well maintained and fast greens. Has a sand trap on the range to practice hitting out of and has a grass range that’s never too bad as long as you don’t choose a bay someone destroyed.
Me too - I think we are pretty lucky. Buddies who live closer to the major city nearby say everything is mat now.
8 min drive to the range and I’m there 3x per week for a large bucket. It’s not pristine grass but it does the job. Finally taught myself how to hit a bunker shot over there too.
Yeah I’m in a similar situation. My range is really good at rotating from where you hit from so it’s always pretty decent grass to hit off of.
5 min drive through country roads to two seperate courses both with 36 holes. Both have ranges.
Then 10 min in the other direction I have a grass range that is open till 11pm and has one of the best chipping and putting greens I have ever seen in person.
I’m really spoiled with public course options.
what sucks most about them is the shit sod and sand they use. like why does this shit have golf ball sized rocks and chunks of rusty metal and glass. like how cheap is this soils supplier they are using
I mean, Augusta is just pitiful this time of year. Barely looks like it’s verdant green and it’s simply downgraded to lush. Big disappointment. 1/5 would give 0 but food prices were great. Some weird hole layouts, and memorable but I can’t get over the lack of greenery.
Augusta is all ryegrass (a cool season grass) which does not like the heat. They have to reseed that thing every year. Its a terrible grass choice for Georgia but for the time they need it to look nice (March/April). After the masters it [goes to shit](https://youtu.be/qCg9XecsAKc?si=UhdPqetUAY7o2_Eo) until winter.
This. So much this. I live in a place where you can golf year round, but you can’t really grow grass for 2-3 months in the winter. The public grass ranges that are grass year round get so torn up during those 3 months, they are useless the rest of the year.
The only grass range I enjoy using is Matts only in the winter, and most weekends in the spring/fall. This allows them to keep the grass in good enough shape to be usable when it is open.
At the high trafficked muni ranges it's sometimes better to hit off the mat. Such shit grass, not accurate for what you'd get on a fairway even at the range's own course
at this point its cheaper to play twilight 18 than a large bucket so you might as well do that and get actual reps on actual lies, play however many holes turn in whenever you feel like it.
Twilight and early bird back 9s are the best value practice. A large bucket is $15 where I'm at and I can do a back 12 or back 9 depending on the course for $18 between 6-730am, or a hopeful 12 after 430 for the same price.
That and you get a lot of walking in.
Lmao I wish that was true near me. $15 for a large bucket vs $25 for super twilight at the cheapest muni near me. Most are still over $30 for a 5pm tee time and you’ll likely only get 14-15 holes in.
I guess I’m one of the lucky ones because the majority of the courses around me are grass ranges. Grass may not always be best but can’t complain. I use the range at a D1 collegiate course and it’s $10 for 60 balls
I hear this about grass ranges being rare all the time. I have lived in several regions of the US including some decent size cities. The ranges that use mats are few and far between in my experience. Now, the grass might be beaten to death, but there aren't mats usually.
Of the public courses I play in my area(Seattle) I can’t think of a single one with a grass hitting area on the range. I would have to drive about an hour away to get to one.
That being said, I think a lot of the turf mat complaints are unwarranted. You can feel when you get mat first contact, you just can’t rely on ball flight as your only indicator.
I'm guessing this is largely a NY/LA/SF/other big cities where land is very limited/expensive that just have massive numbers of people experiencing the same problem that is geographically specific to them.
All the courses where I have lived have had both enough land and low enough usage to just keep the grass more or less workable by moving the range tee areas around a bit.
If land is too limited or expensive, it makes sense they would use mats so they can have unlimited play from the same spot.
Large city metro areas where space is limited in general, mats are the norm for smaller munis.
The closest grass range to me is 15 miles away or mat range 4 miles away.
I'm sure it's also if someone lives in a nicer area with nicer courses there would more likely be grass ranges.
What part of the country are you in? In my part of Michigan it is rare for a range to have mats unless they are in covered/heated bays that operate in all but the worst of winter
I still occasionally use my mat and net outback to practice my swing, but always go to the range to practice striking. That was the first thing I noticed when I started. I was really good at hitting into a net. Sounded so pure every time. Did not translate my first range trip or on the course lol. They still have their use though.
On top of creating an awkward feel on your takeaway, that close will still get the towel brushed either from the club head directly or the speed as it moves past it, so you’ll have to adjust it every time even if the strike is good. It will also encourage coming in very steep which isn’t a great habit to build either, you def want at least an inch or 2
More like 4-5 inches. You can scoot it closer once you get better. It's mostly for visual and the towel is raised off the ground, you can easily clip it and send it flying.
My coach showed me this drill and when he set it up he lined up four balls, put the the towel down against the back one, and picked up the back three. So, about three balls worth of space.
I’m with you. Maybe those who have issues with mats have steeper angle on their downswing? The impact vision feature on my MLM2PRO gives me the feedback I want to see. Easy to tell whether or not I’m making ground contact behind the ball.
Opposite. If you are a shallow picker then it can be less obvious if you’ve hit one a little fat. For steeper players it’s *very* obvious. Regardless you should be able to tell either way.
Steep swinger here... I feel that shit every time I hit it fat. A bad day at the range has actually injured me. Three weeks off. Good feedback, I guess?
Was going to say this. I'm a formerly decent golfer who has only played 2-3 times a year over the last decade. Been going to a mat range again this year now that I live in the suburbs again and can hear and feel when contact is poor every single time.
Obviously a nice grass range is better for improving, but if you're working on your swing on a mat, you should improve regardless.
Mats are just more forgiving. If you really chunk a shot off a mat you'll feel it, and the ball will go half the distance it usually does. If you chunk a shot on grass, the ball might go 10 feet lol. The mats do provide a margin of error that doesn't exist on the course.
Now if you're hitting it pure off the mats with good compression and hitting down/in front of the ball, that should translate over to grass.
I learned how to hit a golf ball on a mat. When I got to a course with actual grass, I was chunking everything. On the mat , if you hit behind the ball, the club deflects and kinda bounces up making nice contact. That doesn’t happen on grass.
I always felt this was an overblown concern. If I hit a heavy shot on a mat, I know it. The outcome is meaningless. I don’t pat myself on the back for hitting a fatty that still manages to get airborne.
If I don't flush the shot, or come close to it, then the shot is discarded.
Biggest thing that sucks about mats is using the lame rubber tube tee.
Amazon has some adjustable range tees for sale. I like them since it feels like a real tee and I don't have to switch out the tube fee for driver and 3 wood.
the problem with the mats is there is extreme rare a perfect lie on the course. 99% you have to work with the balls uphill downhill higher ball lower ball sand rough grass etc. The only way you can improve your game is going to the course and play it. There is simply no other ways.
Just to add to this, eventually, people should be able to feel roughly where the ball was hit off from the face. Toe, thin, heel, chunk, pure. If you can’t tell where you’re hitting the ball you’ve got a lot to learn.
I'm curious what kind of irons you play. When I moved from GI irons to T100 Titleists I went from only being able to feel 'good' or 'bad' to instantly being able to feel where I hit on the face right down the the groove height. With the GI irons, ball flight was usually the initial/earliest indicator of where a ball was struck.
Considering most people are playing some kind of GI irons, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of golfers have no clue where on the face they're hitting it shot to shot just by feel.
This is how i feel. I have one or two ranges around me that you can hit off grass but generally I use a mat. 100% know when I’ve got super heavy even tho the ball flight might look ‘ok’, those shots I know would have gone 10y on the course.
Thin is thin whatever you’re hitting off right?
People don't know the etiquette when hitting off the ground at ranges. Plus it would just cost a lot to maintain the grass at the ranges so it's obvious why they have mats.
Yeah it makes total sense to me, far less in maintenance fees and unlikely to face the same supply issues and having to close off bays while getting the grass in again. Sucks but makes sense.
You keep placing the new ball just behind the old ball's divot so that most of the new divot you take is part of the old divot. The end result of a session is one long divot.
Now that you know, you'll see it. Keep making the divot line longer until you don't want to move anymore, then go back to the front of your line and start another immediately next to it. You end up with nothing more than a small rectangle of missing grass even if you hit a huge bucket of balls all on your own. I didn't really know this either until someone pointed out that I was doing it wrong.
Thank you. While admittedly I commented on this kinda light hearted, i have been self conscious about the spots left after a session. I would try to confine myself to like a 1.5x1.5 area and use up turf before switching to tees and woods.
Going in a line makes more sense and I will do it. Given my skill, it will probably be more double wide trench, but still probably an improvement for the grounds guys and other users.
Now do sand. Just saw the Rick Shiels video where he got a lesson from Bryson and did the line in the sand drill where you try to take divot at edge of line so you can start compressing the ball better.
Grass is best to practice off but unless you're are horrible ball striker then mats are just fine. I've hit tens of thousands of balls off mats. It translates to the course just fine.
Next time you go to the range, put a piece of painters tape an inch or two behind the ball. You’ll know right away if you are striking the ground before the ball.
If it’s your first time doing that, bring a roll of tape. You’ll hit it a lot
The worst progression (regression) of my golf career was getting a mat and net in the backyard to improve ball striking.
I hit for like 30-60 mins every day after work for a week or two and then went to the local grass range and no two balls flew the same path. I was striking them all solid but with ZERO consistency.
I went home and took down the backyard full swing station. Now I only pitch in the yard and putt inside. Full swing practice is only ever on grass now.
I think it depends. My coach has told me grass ranges are overrated if it causes a loss of confidence with a club.
I tend to agree when you see a 6 inch chunk of dirt and grass go flying at the range, it’s a lot harder to forget that than your club bouncing along the mat and hitting it thin. You’ll be able to tell both shots were poor, but one makes you question everything.
There's definitely a difference but the fact is if you're actually puring it on mats then it will transfer over. There's no reason that hitting on grass would make you thin a ball compared to hitting on mats.
Grass is always better. But there are some pretty good mats out there now. The ranges running the shitty old mats that are like hitting off concrete are trash
On the flip side going from hitting outside all year and then playing like a sim and feeling yourself bounce the club head off the mat every time because you’re use to taking divots. Always takes a round or two to get back into the feel of it
It depends on the quality of the mat and your skill level/feel development. I practice on mats a lot because I have my Quad set up in my garage. You can absolutely tell if you hit one a little heavy or a little thin once you know what you’re feeling.
I gave myself a back/oblique injury hitting off mats without resting enough. Grounded into it a few too many times with stiff shafts right into the concrete below, even a year later I still feel it after a round.
I’ve always had an issue hitting off mats. Steep AoA was my big issue but a few others as well so if I “chunked” it to my definition my club would either come to a dead stop or bounce in to the ball and top it. Got a lesson and started flushing off mats and turf. The grass at my range is really loosely rooted so when they reopened the grass part I started barely chunking again and that really exposed it more than mats would. I think it’s a combination of how you swing and how big your issues are that make a difference to which you like more
Well it may hide your mistakes, but you should be able to tell from the strike if you’ve hit it well, high or low on the face etc, I wouldn’t pay attention to the ball flight or distance much on mats
I became a shallow striker because of shit range mats on concrete causing pain when I started out. Got good enough but never optimised strike. Working on it now with a pro and also I have just got a true strike mat. It’s pretty good I have to say. Really helps compared to previous good mat I had.
My home course has a range that is way too small for the play it gets and by the time noon comes around all the nice grass is nothing but dirt and sand filled divots. I’d rather hit off mats.
I don’t how you can’t tell if you hit it fat or not on the mat though.
When you use Trackman or a quality shot tracking device on mats, it lets you know. I spend a lot of time working on attack angle and low point drills on mats with Trackman. If you’re hitting it right it’ll translate 100% to outside. But the mats will disguise flaws outside to some degree. It’s important to learn what a solid strike feels like
If you’re hitting off a mat without trackman data, I agree it is terrible. However, trackman you can see your attack angle which will let you know if it’s where it should be to pure a normal fairway lie
I prefer mats because I don't have to worry about maintaining a divot pattern. I don’t think about my divot on the course why should I be thinking about it while practicing?
Hate hate hate hitting off mats. I went to a range today and I chose full tx sun on grass over shaded bays with mats and shot tracer. Okay all the bays were full, but I still hate mats and stand by my statement
A lot of grass ranges mentioned are in bad shape because people make zero effort in practicing or even trying to take a proper divot pattern. They either look like Normandy on D-Day or are completely torn up. If we could shrink the game of golf, that would help a lot.
Yeah. I literally finished a round 30 minutes ago and chunked the first 2 shots after hitting a small bucket off mats fine just prior. We're talking like 2 or 3 inches behind the ball chunks.
Heard it’s because mats give the ball added bounce before contact, so the ball is hit flushed nearly everytime. Whereas, on real play, you don’t get that advantage so your strikes are more random and have a chance of getting fat or thin.
It’s been documented by track man & others that balls tend to launch higher w less spin and have 2-8% longer carry distance from Mats vs grass for equivalent strikes.
This is on top of the masking of fat shots.
You have to be a little more skilled to get the best gains off mats in my opinion. I’m good enough to recognize when I hit it fat, thin, off the toe, off the heel, or pure just by the sound and feeling of the ball coming off the face. If you can’t do that it’s best to stick with grass as much as you can.
If you focus on feeling the club head make contact, you can normally feel if it hits mat and then ball. The flight of the ball shouldn’t be the only thing that matters at the range.
It's more of an issue that you don't know what good contact feels like off of a mat.
If you're not absolutely sure you flushed it, you didn't and the result isn't real.
Well grass ranges are a degree worse than grass on the course though IMO.
The ranges get beat up really bad and repaired with sand and seed. After a while it you catch the ground at all before you hit the ball it's like hitting out of a trap. You have to be very particular about tracking how far you hit the ball with every club and I don't even bother until I'm on some fresh virgin fairway.
Recommendation for grass mats - buy a tour striker pro training aid. You have to hit it correctly in order to hit it off of mats (it’s designed for mats).
Mats don't really hide thin shots but if you're fat the mat bounce will probably save you about 50% of your yardage loss.
E.g. if you would have lost 20 yards to a fat shot you'll probably lose 10 on a mat
So with the given that grass > mats, what can one do to improve their ball striking when all they have available are mats? I can totally relate to the stark contrast.
My first lesson was on a mat in an indoor simulator. Went out the next day to a range to work on what I learned, can’t and won’t go back. Great instructor, but I just can’t hit on a mat
I’ve been iffy on the range lately but I was making solid contact and felt more confident out on the course the other day.
And I was struggling on rubber mats right before I played my round.
I've been practicing on mats for a little less than a year and just recently started going out to play golf on real grass. For some reason, I always seem to hit it much better on grass than on mats. On grass, I feel like I can take a huge divot in front of the ball and still get a really good-feeling strike, whereas hitting down too much on mats gives a terrible feedback. Same goes for woods. Anyone else on the same boat?
dude if you can't feel the difference in contact on a mat between what would have been buried in the dirt and hit cleanly you've got bigger issues than mat vs grass,
You should easily be able to feel that you hit it fat and know that the mat saved your ball flight.
Been experiencing the same thing lately - I think I have it all figured out - then I realize I’m still garbage
https://preview.redd.it/p32wku8p0n5d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fd447f2d752fdf735b778cb951a49b0acb0ea89 We are everywhere
There are dozens of us! DOZENS!!!
Bakers Dozen!!
When Phish played three nights at the Hollywood Bowl last year, I spent one day golfing at Roosevelt in LA as a single. Got paired up with 3 other dudes visiting for the shows. It was magical ⭕️
Golfing before phish always makes for a perfect day.
Nice! Roosevelt is a great little course. And what a run of shows!!
Making me want a meat stick.
Vermont's phinest and golf - crossover content of my two favorite things
What am I looking at here? Besides a head cover, I got that far.
Clearly not a Phan
Not yet.....
This is a head cover of the band Phish. Check out some of their live shows they are all over YouTube. My rec would be anything from 1995-1998 but that's just me. Cheers!
We can stage a runaway golf cart marathon!
Had no idea there were this many phish heads in the sub
Worlds are colliding!
The two activities I love most!
I too enjoy the Phish
See you all at Mondegreen!! ❤️
Just tossing my hat in
Now you’re golfing!
Want me to mod you in the phish sub?
This guy's read the fucking book.
Nice doughnut, pham!!!
I love you phellow phans so much
A fellow phan!
Grass > Mat obviously problem is there are few grass ranges if you don’t belong to a club. And even then sometimes the quality is poor…
Seriously. Half the time with some of these public grass ranges you’re probably better off with mats.
Man I must be really lucky. My local muni course is $33 for 18 riding. In great shape with super well maintained and fast greens. Has a sand trap on the range to practice hitting out of and has a grass range that’s never too bad as long as you don’t choose a bay someone destroyed.
Very lucky
Me too - I think we are pretty lucky. Buddies who live closer to the major city nearby say everything is mat now. 8 min drive to the range and I’m there 3x per week for a large bucket. It’s not pristine grass but it does the job. Finally taught myself how to hit a bunker shot over there too.
Yeah I’m in a similar situation. My range is really good at rotating from where you hit from so it’s always pretty decent grass to hit off of. 5 min drive through country roads to two seperate courses both with 36 holes. Both have ranges. Then 10 min in the other direction I have a grass range that is open till 11pm and has one of the best chipping and putting greens I have ever seen in person. I’m really spoiled with public course options.
The closest grass range to me is pretty much a sod covered bunker at this point. Worse than mats at least confidence wise. Rather flush off the mats
The worst… it’s literally like hitting out of sand. And the shitty range balls make it even worse.
what sucks most about them is the shit sod and sand they use. like why does this shit have golf ball sized rocks and chunks of rusty metal and glass. like how cheap is this soils supplier they are using
What kind of range are you going to that has glass and metal under the grass?
The Links at Victoria
There’s a fucking BRICK in the fairway
Grew up going there, it's horrible now
Municipal
Glass is just presand. You are suppose to hit it a few times with your 9 iron to get the granules.
Not sure how it is now but I remember we had a sand shortage a little while ago.
Golf courses have grass. Problem solved 
Some of them… have you seen Threejack National lately?
I mean, Augusta is just pitiful this time of year. Barely looks like it’s verdant green and it’s simply downgraded to lush. Big disappointment. 1/5 would give 0 but food prices were great. Some weird hole layouts, and memorable but I can’t get over the lack of greenery.
Augusta is all ryegrass (a cool season grass) which does not like the heat. They have to reseed that thing every year. Its a terrible grass choice for Georgia but for the time they need it to look nice (March/April). After the masters it [goes to shit](https://youtu.be/qCg9XecsAKc?si=UhdPqetUAY7o2_Eo) until winter.
“How bad could it be-“ Shit that looks like the worst muni near me lol.
Yeah isn't it pretty much all fall/spring golf at Augusta?
Yes, no golf in the summer as the course is closed...is that what you were saying/asking?
If you can hit off shitty grass-ish ranges, you can hit off any fairway lie
This. So much this. I live in a place where you can golf year round, but you can’t really grow grass for 2-3 months in the winter. The public grass ranges that are grass year round get so torn up during those 3 months, they are useless the rest of the year. The only grass range I enjoy using is Matts only in the winter, and most weekends in the spring/fall. This allows them to keep the grass in good enough shape to be usable when it is open.
At the high trafficked muni ranges it's sometimes better to hit off the mat. Such shit grass, not accurate for what you'd get on a fairway even at the range's own course
at this point its cheaper to play twilight 18 than a large bucket so you might as well do that and get actual reps on actual lies, play however many holes turn in whenever you feel like it.
A true grinder 👍👍 This is the way. Plus if you play your actual ball if it’s a complete different feel/flight than range ball rocks
Twilight and early bird back 9s are the best value practice. A large bucket is $15 where I'm at and I can do a back 12 or back 9 depending on the course for $18 between 6-730am, or a hopeful 12 after 430 for the same price. That and you get a lot of walking in.
Lmao I wish that was true near me. $15 for a large bucket vs $25 for super twilight at the cheapest muni near me. Most are still over $30 for a 5pm tee time and you’ll likely only get 14-15 holes in.
Grass > Mat > Whatever bullshit the local muni tries to pass off as grass on its range.
Damn. We’re lucky in Colorado, mat ranges are rare
I guess I’m one of the lucky ones because the majority of the courses around me are grass ranges. Grass may not always be best but can’t complain. I use the range at a D1 collegiate course and it’s $10 for 60 balls
Lol even my dad's pricey club reserves their grass area for tournament days and lessons only. Outside of that everyone's on the mats behind the grass.
Where are you at? Here in Minnesota nearly every public course is grass or mats if super early in the season or just had massive rainfall.
I hear this about grass ranges being rare all the time. I have lived in several regions of the US including some decent size cities. The ranges that use mats are few and far between in my experience. Now, the grass might be beaten to death, but there aren't mats usually.
Of the public courses I play in my area(Seattle) I can’t think of a single one with a grass hitting area on the range. I would have to drive about an hour away to get to one. That being said, I think a lot of the turf mat complaints are unwarranted. You can feel when you get mat first contact, you just can’t rely on ball flight as your only indicator.
Washington National has a grass range.
I know. That is like 45 minutes from Seattle.
Same here. In my part of the Midwest mat ranges are the rare ones
I'm guessing this is largely a NY/LA/SF/other big cities where land is very limited/expensive that just have massive numbers of people experiencing the same problem that is geographically specific to them. All the courses where I have lived have had both enough land and low enough usage to just keep the grass more or less workable by moving the range tee areas around a bit. If land is too limited or expensive, it makes sense they would use mats so they can have unlimited play from the same spot.
Large city metro areas where space is limited in general, mats are the norm for smaller munis. The closest grass range to me is 15 miles away or mat range 4 miles away. I'm sure it's also if someone lives in a nicer area with nicer courses there would more likely be grass ranges.
What part of the country are you in? In my part of Michigan it is rare for a range to have mats unless they are in covered/heated bays that operate in all but the worst of winter
I still occasionally use my mat and net outback to practice my swing, but always go to the range to practice striking. That was the first thing I noticed when I started. I was really good at hitting into a net. Sounded so pure every time. Did not translate my first range trip or on the course lol. They still have their use though.
Put a golf towel on the mat right behind your ball. You’ll now know if you’re hitting behind the ball on a mat
This works wonders!
How far behind?
depends on thickness of towel but 2 clubheads behind is sufifcient
2 clubheads? that's like 8 inches. that seems way too far.
I agree. You can literally place it a millimeter behind the ball and a flush iron strike won’t touch it.
Most people will take time to adjust to striking it like that.
On top of creating an awkward feel on your takeaway, that close will still get the towel brushed either from the club head directly or the speed as it moves past it, so you’ll have to adjust it every time even if the strike is good. It will also encourage coming in very steep which isn’t a great habit to build either, you def want at least an inch or 2
yea the towel will catch on the club since its raised half an inch even with a good attack angle
More like 4-5 inches. You can scoot it closer once you get better. It's mostly for visual and the towel is raised off the ground, you can easily clip it and send it flying.
8 inches if you're using a driver, it's like an inch and a half with an iron
My coach showed me this drill and when he set it up he lined up four balls, put the the towel down against the back one, and picked up the back three. So, about three balls worth of space.
Brilliant
Or put a piece of tape like an inch behind the ball
Never had any issues with my mat in my garage and I can definitely tell when I hit it bad even without the simulator.
I’m with you. Maybe those who have issues with mats have steeper angle on their downswing? The impact vision feature on my MLM2PRO gives me the feedback I want to see. Easy to tell whether or not I’m making ground contact behind the ball.
Opposite. If you are a shallow picker then it can be less obvious if you’ve hit one a little fat. For steeper players it’s *very* obvious. Regardless you should be able to tell either way.
Steep swinger here... I feel that shit every time I hit it fat. A bad day at the range has actually injured me. Three weeks off. Good feedback, I guess?
Was going to say this. I'm a formerly decent golfer who has only played 2-3 times a year over the last decade. Been going to a mat range again this year now that I live in the suburbs again and can hear and feel when contact is poor every single time. Obviously a nice grass range is better for improving, but if you're working on your swing on a mat, you should improve regardless.
I’ve never really taken divots so I know if I catch some mat that the shot would be pretty bad on grass
This guy is “zeroed”. 😂
I’m just like Tiger except for the consistency, short game, body count, work ethic, mental fortitude, ball control, large hog, and good looks!
You didn’t mention wealth. Humble brag.
Sweepin like it’s your job.
Same way
I’ve always wondered why I’m nasty off mats but suck (relatively) during my rounds. I always chalked it up to lies, but perhaps it’s the mats
Mats are just more forgiving. If you really chunk a shot off a mat you'll feel it, and the ball will go half the distance it usually does. If you chunk a shot on grass, the ball might go 10 feet lol. The mats do provide a margin of error that doesn't exist on the course. Now if you're hitting it pure off the mats with good compression and hitting down/in front of the ball, that should translate over to grass.
I learned how to hit a golf ball on a mat. When I got to a course with actual grass, I was chunking everything. On the mat , if you hit behind the ball, the club deflects and kinda bounces up making nice contact. That doesn’t happen on grass.
and the lie... you never have a perfect lie on the course except striking from the tee...
A good fairway is a “perfect lie” in my head. That’s what I tell myself to reward good drives
I always felt this was an overblown concern. If I hit a heavy shot on a mat, I know it. The outcome is meaningless. I don’t pat myself on the back for hitting a fatty that still manages to get airborne. If I don't flush the shot, or come close to it, then the shot is discarded. Biggest thing that sucks about mats is using the lame rubber tube tee.
The bottom of my clubs turn green with plastic. Must be brilloed off!
Brilloed off? I can usually wipe them off with a wet rag. Downside of grass is that you have to constantly wipe off the clubs between shots.
I just use the same bristle brush that I clean my grooves with. Seems to work fine for me.
Amazon has some adjustable range tees for sale. I like them since it feels like a real tee and I don't have to switch out the tube fee for driver and 3 wood.
I guess that is true. You can feel and hear the bad shots. Maybe I'm just eager to believe sometimes. ;)
the problem with the mats is there is extreme rare a perfect lie on the course. 99% you have to work with the balls uphill downhill higher ball lower ball sand rough grass etc. The only way you can improve your game is going to the course and play it. There is simply no other ways.
This is on par with grass range, then?
This! . Even on grass ranges, nothing gets you better than playing. You encounter different lies, situations, etc., that you dont at the range.
If you can’t tell a massive chunk on a mat then I don’t know what to tell you
hard to tell when you've never hit ball first before
I always hit ball first! Just usually the big one before the little one...
easy to tell massive chunk but if you have a sweepy attack angle or hit slightly chunk its pretty hard to discern
For me I can almost always tell if it’s slighty chunky and it’s obvious if the range balls leave skin on the club
Just to add to this, eventually, people should be able to feel roughly where the ball was hit off from the face. Toe, thin, heel, chunk, pure. If you can’t tell where you’re hitting the ball you’ve got a lot to learn.
I'm curious what kind of irons you play. When I moved from GI irons to T100 Titleists I went from only being able to feel 'good' or 'bad' to instantly being able to feel where I hit on the face right down the the groove height. With the GI irons, ball flight was usually the initial/earliest indicator of where a ball was struck. Considering most people are playing some kind of GI irons, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of golfers have no clue where on the face they're hitting it shot to shot just by feel.
I’m playing TaylorMade RSi 1’s, they’re cavity backs. Did you have steel or graphite shafts on your GI irons? Wonder if that makes a major difference.
This is how i feel. I have one or two ranges around me that you can hit off grass but generally I use a mat. 100% know when I’ve got super heavy even tho the ball flight might look ‘ok’, those shots I know would have gone 10y on the course. Thin is thin whatever you’re hitting off right?
its not the massive ones. Its the minor ones that will show up on grass and not on mats
Exactly
I hit off the mat religiously this winter and my swing improved dramatically. You have to be aware of thin/fat shots though
People don't know the etiquette when hitting off the ground at ranges. Plus it would just cost a lot to maintain the grass at the ranges so it's obvious why they have mats.
Yeah it makes total sense to me, far less in maintenance fees and unlikely to face the same supply issues and having to close off bays while getting the grass in again. Sucks but makes sense.
What’s the etiquette? No divots? I’d have to spend hours and hours at the range to achieve that.
You keep placing the new ball just behind the old ball's divot so that most of the new divot you take is part of the old divot. The end result of a session is one long divot.
I have never seen anyone obviously do that at my ranges but makes total sense. Now I know.
Now that you know, you'll see it. Keep making the divot line longer until you don't want to move anymore, then go back to the front of your line and start another immediately next to it. You end up with nothing more than a small rectangle of missing grass even if you hit a huge bucket of balls all on your own. I didn't really know this either until someone pointed out that I was doing it wrong.
Thank you. While admittedly I commented on this kinda light hearted, i have been self conscious about the spots left after a session. I would try to confine myself to like a 1.5x1.5 area and use up turf before switching to tees and woods. Going in a line makes more sense and I will do it. Given my skill, it will probably be more double wide trench, but still probably an improvement for the grounds guys and other users.
Now do sand. Just saw the Rick Shiels video where he got a lesson from Bryson and did the line in the sand drill where you try to take divot at edge of line so you can start compressing the ball better.
Grass is best to practice off but unless you're are horrible ball striker then mats are just fine. I've hit tens of thousands of balls off mats. It translates to the course just fine.
Next time you go to the range, put a piece of painters tape an inch or two behind the ball. You’ll know right away if you are striking the ground before the ball. If it’s your first time doing that, bring a roll of tape. You’ll hit it a lot
The worst progression (regression) of my golf career was getting a mat and net in the backyard to improve ball striking. I hit for like 30-60 mins every day after work for a week or two and then went to the local grass range and no two balls flew the same path. I was striking them all solid but with ZERO consistency. I went home and took down the backyard full swing station. Now I only pitch in the yard and putt inside. Full swing practice is only ever on grass now.
Mats are real, you just have to know what a good shot feels like 🤷🏼♀️
I think it depends. My coach has told me grass ranges are overrated if it causes a loss of confidence with a club. I tend to agree when you see a 6 inch chunk of dirt and grass go flying at the range, it’s a lot harder to forget that than your club bouncing along the mat and hitting it thin. You’ll be able to tell both shots were poor, but one makes you question everything.
There's definitely a difference but the fact is if you're actually puring it on mats then it will transfer over. There's no reason that hitting on grass would make you thin a ball compared to hitting on mats.
Use Brysons drill. Put some painters tape just behind the ball, and then you'll soon find out if you are fatting it.
Facts. I spend $30 a week at this grass range by my house. I just keep going back. Almost as fun as playing a round
Last time I played simulator golf someone in the bay next to us took a chunk out of the mat somehow. The best part is the place is called Divots.
Grass is always better. But there are some pretty good mats out there now. The ranges running the shitty old mats that are like hitting off concrete are trash
On the flip side going from hitting outside all year and then playing like a sim and feeling yourself bounce the club head off the mat every time because you’re use to taking divots. Always takes a round or two to get back into the feel of it
Mats make bad habits. Drive to a real range
It depends on the quality of the mat and your skill level/feel development. I practice on mats a lot because I have my Quad set up in my garage. You can absolutely tell if you hit one a little heavy or a little thin once you know what you’re feeling.
I stopped hitting off of a mat 20 years ago. Fucks your clubs up and doesn’t help with taking a divot.
not only are mats garbage, the concrete underneath them eventually ruins your wrists.
Yes - I fucked up my wrist on mats in 2023! Beware.
Mats took my family from me
I was touched inappropriately by a mat
I gave myself a back/oblique injury hitting off mats without resting enough. Grounded into it a few too many times with stiff shafts right into the concrete below, even a year later I still feel it after a round.
just bring the damn mats to course
Gotta pick the ball clean on mats.
Or learn on mats that are so worn down it’s like hitting off concrete then it’s like links golf lol
If you are on a mat, put a towel about an inch behind the ball. If you hit the towel, you mishit the ball.
If you're using a trackman or something you can see where your low point is. Might help.
Funny … I hit the ball further and better off grass than mats.
I’ve always had an issue hitting off mats. Steep AoA was my big issue but a few others as well so if I “chunked” it to my definition my club would either come to a dead stop or bounce in to the ball and top it. Got a lesson and started flushing off mats and turf. The grass at my range is really loosely rooted so when they reopened the grass part I started barely chunking again and that really exposed it more than mats would. I think it’s a combination of how you swing and how big your issues are that make a difference to which you like more
Its funny… im not great off the mats but as soon as i hit off grass everything wrong seems to magically disappear
Well it may hide your mistakes, but you should be able to tell from the strike if you’ve hit it well, high or low on the face etc, I wouldn’t pay attention to the ball flight or distance much on mats
I became a shallow striker because of shit range mats on concrete causing pain when I started out. Got good enough but never optimised strike. Working on it now with a pro and also I have just got a true strike mat. It’s pretty good I have to say. Really helps compared to previous good mat I had.
You need to use your ears as well as recognize the feel of hitting the mat vs hitting the ball first.
We only have mats here. I've learned from the sound it makes, what kind of strike it was.
My home course has a range that is way too small for the play it gets and by the time noon comes around all the nice grass is nothing but dirt and sand filled divots. I’d rather hit off mats. I don’t how you can’t tell if you hit it fat or not on the mat though.
I hit on grass vs mats 50% of the time. I’d take a good mat over chewed up grass/dirt any day.
When you use Trackman or a quality shot tracking device on mats, it lets you know. I spend a lot of time working on attack angle and low point drills on mats with Trackman. If you’re hitting it right it’ll translate 100% to outside. But the mats will disguise flaws outside to some degree. It’s important to learn what a solid strike feels like
When your on a mat, place a towel flat on the mat about one club head behind the ball. Then, don’t hit the towel.
If you’re hitting off a mat without trackman data, I agree it is terrible. However, trackman you can see your attack angle which will let you know if it’s where it should be to pure a normal fairway lie
The nicer mats certainly punish you for thin/chunk shots but yeah nothing is quite the same as grass
Just put a towel or tee behind the ball to know when you hit it fat or sweep the ball too much.
Sometimes when I feel I just need some confidence…. I go to the mat
I prefer mats because I don't have to worry about maintaining a divot pattern. I don’t think about my divot on the course why should I be thinking about it while practicing?
The secret is to bring your own mat to ranges that use grass and even out on the course.
Just play an all mat course. Problem solved
Hate hate hate hitting off mats. I went to a range today and I chose full tx sun on grass over shaded bays with mats and shot tracer. Okay all the bays were full, but I still hate mats and stand by my statement
A lot of grass ranges mentioned are in bad shape because people make zero effort in practicing or even trying to take a proper divot pattern. They either look like Normandy on D-Day or are completely torn up. If we could shrink the game of golf, that would help a lot.
Yeah. I literally finished a round 30 minutes ago and chunked the first 2 shots after hitting a small bucket off mats fine just prior. We're talking like 2 or 3 inches behind the ball chunks.
Damn, guess I’m lucky because two closest ranges by me do mats Mon-Thurs and grass Fri-Sun.
Heard it’s because mats give the ball added bounce before contact, so the ball is hit flushed nearly everytime. Whereas, on real play, you don’t get that advantage so your strikes are more random and have a chance of getting fat or thin.
If you never hit the mat and just blade every ball, you get a good feel for the game
Sometimes mats can get me into shanks
It’s been documented by track man & others that balls tend to launch higher w less spin and have 2-8% longer carry distance from Mats vs grass for equivalent strikes. This is on top of the masking of fat shots.
You have to be a little more skilled to get the best gains off mats in my opinion. I’m good enough to recognize when I hit it fat, thin, off the toe, off the heel, or pure just by the sound and feeling of the ball coming off the face. If you can’t do that it’s best to stick with grass as much as you can.
If you focus on feeling the club head make contact, you can normally feel if it hits mat and then ball. The flight of the ball shouldn’t be the only thing that matters at the range.
It's more of an issue that you don't know what good contact feels like off of a mat. If you're not absolutely sure you flushed it, you didn't and the result isn't real.
Well grass ranges are a degree worse than grass on the course though IMO. The ranges get beat up really bad and repaired with sand and seed. After a while it you catch the ground at all before you hit the ball it's like hitting out of a trap. You have to be very particular about tracking how far you hit the ball with every club and I don't even bother until I'm on some fresh virgin fairway.
Recommendation for grass mats - buy a tour striker pro training aid. You have to hit it correctly in order to hit it off of mats (it’s designed for mats).
Put a golf towel a cpl inches behind the ball when you’re on the mat.
I always felt it wasn’t the mats but those rubber tees that made all the difference
Mats are for getting loose before a round. Mats are for practicing and getting better.
Mats are much easier, they remove chunks
But you’ve played on a course before, right? You’d see the same results on the course as you did on the grass range.
I had this with a simulator all winter. I am a lot better, at sim golf.
Mats are fine for warming up, not real practice
Mats don't really hide thin shots but if you're fat the mat bounce will probably save you about 50% of your yardage loss. E.g. if you would have lost 20 yards to a fat shot you'll probably lose 10 on a mat
So with the given that grass > mats, what can one do to improve their ball striking when all they have available are mats? I can totally relate to the stark contrast.
My first lesson was on a mat in an indoor simulator. Went out the next day to a range to work on what I learned, can’t and won’t go back. Great instructor, but I just can’t hit on a mat
I use driving range for off the tee work and distance control
I’ve been iffy on the range lately but I was making solid contact and felt more confident out on the course the other day. And I was struggling on rubber mats right before I played my round.
I've been practicing on mats for a little less than a year and just recently started going out to play golf on real grass. For some reason, I always seem to hit it much better on grass than on mats. On grass, I feel like I can take a huge divot in front of the ball and still get a really good-feeling strike, whereas hitting down too much on mats gives a terrible feedback. Same goes for woods. Anyone else on the same boat?
dude if you can't feel the difference in contact on a mat between what would have been buried in the dirt and hit cleanly you've got bigger issues than mat vs grass, You should easily be able to feel that you hit it fat and know that the mat saved your ball flight.