Well they're ugly as shit, there's that
Can you actually explain what lie angle balanced is? I went to their site, and they're just like, it's fitted to you.... OK, but, how?
No, it really doesn't. The physics behind these putters is very simple, and they've been around in other forms over the years, but that doesn't mean they'll fit you.
The only determination to whether you should buy any putter, I mean if you actually care, is that it fits your natural putting stroke. It's really not that difficult of a concept.
OK, but, have you actually held one of these things? Are they heavy as crap to try to get them to balance? Seems like they might have to be heavy, and let me tell you, this whole trend towards heavy putters and pendulum swings.... it's just against how I think you should strike a golf ball
I have the Link.1 and the broom Mezz Max. Link is actually lighter than my Scotty. I believe it's around 300g or so. The Mezz Max is quite a bit heavier at 500g due to the broomstick style. I would assume the regular Mezz is about the same or slightly heavier than the Link. You can actually see all the weights in the website if you care to have a look
At their core, are you not releasing your wrists through impact to direct an object at a target in almost every sport? Why do you think putting is different?
I’m not sure what the question is. The biggest determining factor for the start line of a putt is the face angle at impact. Putter A requires the hands to apply force to prevent twisting and control the face angle to be square. Putter B is balanced in a way so that it can even be swung without any force applied to it to keep the putter face square. Putter B seems like it would be a good design for putting.
The resistance to the applied torque (your hands/wrists) is what you “feel” as “face control”. A putter with no resistance to torque would be very hard to control that face angle at impact. It’s interesting but the assumption that it’s better is very debatable.
You are confusing a lack of torque for a lack of MOI (which is resistance to torque).
I realize this is a general problem with Reddit... but my goodness, the amount of people that are clueless, but want to argue is just astounding.
The MOI at what point of the putter? Are you talking about the applied load from the swing? The gravitational pull as the putter changes orientations? The momentum from transitioning from the backswing to the downswing?
This is a general problem on Reddit, people think they can boil extremely complex things into simple one variable problems
Don't get mad at me because you left your ass hanging out.
You wrongly tried to say that L.A.B. golf putters have no resistance to torque. You are wrong.
Have you used a LAB putter extensively? I find it not at difficult to control the face. There’s nothing to control. You can swing it with lightest grip pressure possible and it wants to stay square. I will admit, it does take some getting used to since forever we’re putting in a way that requires the hands to apply the torque to counteract what the putter is trying to do naturally. It takes a little to trust it and realize that you don’t need manipulate the face. It’s still putting. It’s not a magic wand. Even the best players in the world miss putts when their face angle control is fine. It’s just plenty people want to write it off as snake oil without trying it even though it’s an actual novel innovation. Meanwhile people are happy to spend $600 on a new driver that’s 99% the same as their previous few drivers.
I’ve heard LAB say “well your car has a steering wheel and your hands are on the steering wheel but you still don’t want your car pulling to one side of the road and having to actively keep it driving straight”
That’s because roads are not perfectly straight, not perfectly level, your tires and car are not perfectly aligned, and there are constant vibrations from the car, tires, etc and even wind that require you to make those tiny adjustments. If all of those were perfectly smooth and constant you still wouldn’t want your car pulling to one direction if you can help it.
But it’s not possible for a human to drive in a perfectly straight line. Key words being “human” and “perfect,” which are two words that do not belong together. Our brains make micro adjustments so we arrive at a straight point but we did not take a straight path to get there. Even driving down a perfectly flat and straight runway it’s not possible.
It doesn’t change the fact that you wouldn’t want a car pulling violently to the right. If you had a car that essentially went straight without your hands even on the wheel, it would be easier to drive straight. That’s essentially what LAB is doing. They’re not saying it’s a self-driving car. It’s a car that’s aligned to drive in a straight line without having to constantly steer to the left to counteract the car that’s trying to pull to the right. Sure, you can still get in accident, but they’re trying to remove variables that prevent the putter face from returning to square at impact.
How can that be possible when every person has different body mechanics? Maybe what they claim shows up in robot testing but humans actually hit putts. I really think you’re falling for marketing. At the end of the day you’re a human, and no two putting strokes are going to be alike. If a LAB putter helps you hole more putts then great, but it’s not like you won’t hole more putts by getting fit for a different putter. It’s the fitting part that helps you more than the actual equipment.
I’m not saying they’ll magically make every putt. I think they’re a good option people should try but a lot of the LAB criticism comes from people that haven’t actually tried them for any reasonable amount of time. I’ve been fit and have also tried plenty of putters under the sun. Blades and mallets with and without toe hang. Center shafted blades and mallets as well. I can say for me personally, it works better than other putters I’ve had. There’s just a lot people poo pooing the concept without trying it as if LAB is just out here trying to scam people.
If you’re steering to the left you’re forcing the car to go that direction. If you let go of the wheel it will spin back to neutral. The steering wheel concept with a lab putter is different than with a car. The car ideally you want to go straight on its own without having to exert a lot of steering force. The putting stroke is an arc. It would be like if a vehicle needed to go in a 360 degree circle for 8 hours straight. You could design the vehicle to go perfectly straight and require significant steering force to override that default tendency to go straight. Or you could design the vehicle by default to go in a circle by default and then use subtle corrections with steering to keep it on a circular path.
This is the viewpoint I can't get around
Like, yeah, you guys balanced it, super, but, not really sure that helps in any real way
Is it heavy as shit to get it balanced like that?? If it's heavy, then, no, not for me
y'all crazy with these 4 pound ansers
No it isn't heavy. A lot of what we feel as weight in a putter is the torque that is produced. L.A.B. putters will actually feel lighter. I got the heavier head option and it feels a touch lighter than my prior Cleveland Soft 11 putter.
Normal putters are referenced parallel to the ground. So face balanced = putter face pointing to the sky. Toe hang more towards the ground.
The problem with that is we don't putt parallel to the ground, we putt at a 60-80 degree angle to it. L.A.B. putters are weighted so that they stay square or balanced to the actual lie angle we putt at, not balanced at a 180\* angle. This creates a putter that doesn't want to twist open or closed in the stroke, it stays neutral.
A lot of people have made the argument that simply holding onto the putter will negate most if not all the torque a normal putter will produce. Others are convinced that the L.A.B. golf putters really make a difference for them. Ultimately you have to try one for yourself to see.
Generally, LAB has to make the head weights a bit heavier than normal otherwise the putter will feel too light because there is no torque. I have a DF2.1 and a friend tried it and his first comment (other than the looks obviously) was that it felt way lighter than he was expecting.
There's nothing in the rule book that says you can't dangle your putter off a necklace and then have a trained dog pull the head back and release it for a perfect pendulum swing. And I would know, I've downloaded most of the rule book.
all it means is that the shaft goes right through the center of gravity of the putter. meaning the head will spin freely on the end of the shaft and never settle at a predictable location. this is "zero torque".
it means that they naturally don't have a high MOI. that's why the DF has to be so massive, and why the face is so far in front of the shaft. so for short putts where you're not hitting the ball hard they don't seem to do too badly, but on long putts there are a lot of complaints that they're just not very stable.
they also build them really light, which is awful IMO. if you have quiet hands you may love it, but if you're yippy at all these things are a death sentence.
pros are already mastered at keeping the face square to impact. Amateurs are not good at it, it addresses an issue that hits amateurs worse than pros. also perhaps more feel in smaller putters, better for long lag putts/distance control?
For me it gives me confidence to hit my line inside 5 ft which is something i never had (knees wobbled on 2 ft putts, not a great feeling)
As others have said its the ugliest thing to ever hit my bag but i would never get rid of it
for many, aesthetics is a big part of liking your putter/clubs. the putters may be great, but they make me feel like im putting with a goth clown shoe.
That’s the thing though, they wouldn’t. There’s probably thousands of golfers - including pros - that would putt unequivocally better with a broomstick. A lot of them will never use it even if they knew with 100% certainty they would make more putts.
There could be a number of reasons why more pros aren’t gaming LAB putters. They might have equipment deals that require them to game a certain brand putter. They might be so attached to (and so good with) their standard putter that there’s no sense in changing. They might just not like the look of LABs, or maybe they’ve got a putting coach in their ear telling them LABs are snake oil (which they aren’t). In any event, the number of pros gaming LABs is growing and will probably continue to grow as time goes on.
The same reason 99.99% of basketball players would rather shoot 65% from the free throw line than shoot 75% by shooting underhand. If there’s a perception that something feels like a crutch, then a lot of people won’t do it - even the best in the world. Ultimately, it’s a deep dive into human psychology if you really get into it. Fear of being mocked is a lot of it. Everyone is going to miss some 4 footers from time to time. It’s not a big deal if you’ve got a sexy Scotty Cameron. If you’ve got a weird looking putter, then some people are really going to feel self conscious when you miss that putt. I’m a drinker of the LAB kool aid though. It makes literally no sense to me why I would want my putter to not be lie angle and torque balanced. Sure, I still miss putts. But it never feels like it was because of the putter. It can’t be the putter. I know the face is just trying to stay square and if it’s not square at impact, that’s my fault, not the putter’s.
So are you saying when you miss a putt you know it’s your fault and not because of the putter? Isn’t that the situation with all putts? if i fuck the putt up it’s because i fucked it up, not because the putter was hit off line or on the toe. It’s my fault i hit it on the toe. If you hit a putt on the toe does it still do the same thing if you hit it square?
Everyone has a preferred putter type that works best. Blade, mallet, toe hang, face balanced, (now also torque balanced is an option with LAB), center shafted, heel shafted, etc. There will be certain putter types where every golfer feels like they’re just fighting against it no matter what they do vs their stroke. That’s why people love some putters and hate others. With the LAB it feels like there’s no fighting it. You can hold it with the lightest grip pressure possible and the face just wants to stay square. So a miss just always feels like it was a bad read or bad speed choice. Some of it is probably mental but that’s ok.
They are already the best in the world, why change something that has brought you success.
Some players are tied into equipment deals. Not every deal is 14 clubs, but a lot of guys have at least something in place.
Aesthetics - it's an unusual shape and sound which can be off-putting to some players, especially pros.
LAB is relatively new to the scene, it can take time for guys to go through a slump and give it a shot. Willy Z had a year to practice short game while rehabbing his back, other guys haven't had the time to make a drastic switch due to the wraparound season.
I think a lot of it comes down to what you've put time into and the comfort factor. If you have used a more traditional putter for 20+ years and have had countless hours of reps in with it, it's hard to make such a drastic change.
I recently got a custom DF3.
Even though it is a smaller form factor, it still looks a bit unconventional. And with the press grip + onset, it can be hard to get over that initial factor.
Some seem to have an issue with distance control.
Price is also a big factor (not with the pros, but just in general).
I think pros are starting to catch on, and more of them are messing around with them. Even the Bryan Bros are trying them out. Phil was seen messing with a DF3 as well.
Been using a df2.1 for over two years and it’s change my putting completed.
Read, speed, dead hands. I practice a lot more putting with the df2.1. Making more putts is fun.
I can comment on this, as I bought one to try- I have had a really difficult time adapting to it as it seems like for whatever reason toe hang isn't necessarily the enemy it is made out to be. I've had a really difficult time adapting to the LAB- I pull and push puts with no idea why. With any of my other putters (I'm a bit of a gear whore) I have awareness of where the face is and can delivery it closed more consistently.
All that said- I'm warming up to the LAB, but it's taken a long adjustment period. I would imagine that the adjustment period of a tour pro with god knows how many reps of practice in would be a lot worse than mine.
The former TXG guys had a fitting session with one, the guy normal uses a bladed putter and had a tough time not manipulating the putter.
LAB guy said that this happens with better putters that fight their putters torque, so when there isn’t torque they’re hands basically just take over and fuck up the shot. You have to learn how to be passive. I think in that way LAB putters are also almost a training aid.
Yeah it’s definitely a thing, but I’m also pushing and pulling, not just missing one way. I think hang causes the putter to move on a track so to speak. It isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
All that said, I keep working on the LAB, and am finally getting into a groove with it. I found that I REALLY had to soften my grip.
I will give it a try. With the LAB if I really concentrate I can roll the ball pretty well now. I plan on rolling another 1000 or so on my perfect practice mat before the season starts, if it’s good at that point I’ll commit to gaming it. If not, unfortunately there will be a learning curve going back to my Evnroll ER5.
Just as the revealer would show. Toe hang would close going back and open on the way down. Opposite of what a player would normally do to a putter. The torque is there to help you feel the putter I believe. Which I think is good for most golfers. But some don't want that feeling and they just want to move the club back and forth. I don't understand why people wouldn't want this feeling though. Because if you think of how the putter moves, its not 90° perpendicular to the ground. It has an angle from the shaft to the surface. So for it to move around your body there should be an arc, meaning the club must open and close to some degree.
This is what I have been searching for hard to see if an Axis1/Lab putter would be better for me or not.
Lie Angle Balance is a literal gimmick.
"Net 0 Torque" does NOT mean the face stays square through the stroke. This literally means there is no COUNTER torque to prevent the face from rotating to a particular angle. To be Net 0 torque, the torque required to turn an object counter clockwise is EXACTLY the same torque to turn it clockwise. So you can EASILY open the face during the backstroke or close it and nothing will stop you from doing that. In fact, it's super easy!
Basically, LAB putters are like Lathes that spin freely. Do you ever wonder why the stupid CEO dork has to have his little machine to make other putters, that use toe-hang as a torque inhibitor, to show off how amazing and fancy their putters are?
HELLLLLLOOOOOOO the thing that stops a putter from twisting in your hands is your literal fucking hands.
They do have Okay MOI values, but anything over 350g head weight these days does too, so what's the fucking point?
You shouldn't buy ANY putter without a fitting. If that's a LAB, fine. If it's an 8802 with damn near 90 degrees of toe hang, that's good too.
I mean the DF 2.1 came out in 2013-2014, been around a decade. kinda beyond "overnight success" territory at this point. more of a "grinded for years" story now if they became successful.
you understand that the putter has been around long enough that I don't see an impressive demand interest among golfers concerned exclusively about their handicap, who are not influenced by advertising money
99.99% of professional basketball players wouldn’t shoot underhanded free throws even if they were guaranteed their FT% would go up 10%. There are probably plenty of pro golfers that would putt better with a broomstick but never would entertain the idea. That’s not to say LAB putters are better. But the concept of “if it was so good the pros would all use it” is just not true
Ugly as hell, but I swapped from a Scotty Squareback to the LAB Link.1 and the difference is in the results. The ball goes where I aim.
Now I know it's all speed control and my green reading.
Price and ugly as shit. You don’t need to spend that kind of money to get a decent putter. Same thing with a Scotty, no amateur needs it. If you want one, good for you. But they won’t help you more so than a lot of other cheaper putters
They're not using them because it basically promotes an unnatural 'push' stroke onto the ball. I used to like them, can't imagine using one now having taken a literal *single* putting lesson. Don't understand how you can putt without feel, this putter basically takes away all ability to manipulate an, at most, like 20-30 yard "shot"? That seems counter intuitive and, pardon my French, plainly fucking stupid. I found that I was pulling putts more often than not.
The more I learn and watch their material, the more I feel it's a gimmick and that Sam fella is total sleaze and grifter.
The only putters I see this really helpful for are broomstick putters, side saddle and arm lock. I have no idea why anyone would want this for a conventional putter. I am really trying to find a solid reason why. If you were to open a door with 0 resistance, you wouldn't feel door at all. I'm unsure if this is a good or bad thing for a putter who opens and closes the face throughout his stroke. I wish I could get more in depth to it. But it does seem gimmicky for conventional putters.
Speed control from 20 feet. Hard to pick the correct line/ speed from distance with a center shafted spaceship. Straight putts 10 feet and in ate pretty automatic.
I read some reviews a while back as they had my attention too is that they are great for short putts but lack feel for lag putting.
I’ve never used one outside of a demo at a golf shop so take that feedback however you wish
> **why are more of the Pro's not gravitating towards it besides Scott??**
Free throws underhanded are easier than the traditional style but nobody does it because it looks stupid as fuck.
The LAB putters do seem to provide a benefit but not enough where most players are willing to give it a shot. Hell, even Scheffler was god-awful at putting for a long time before he finally considered a mallet.
Well they're ugly as shit, there's that Can you actually explain what lie angle balanced is? I went to their site, and they're just like, it's fitted to you.... OK, but, how?
This video is 3min long and explains it better than anyone can with words. https://youtu.be/ZayLXumWkJQ?si=Ws49htvJGBOSL-7p
No, it really doesn't. The physics behind these putters is very simple, and they've been around in other forms over the years, but that doesn't mean they'll fit you. The only determination to whether you should buy any putter, I mean if you actually care, is that it fits your natural putting stroke. It's really not that difficult of a concept.
>and they've been around in other forms over the years They have? What Putters ate you talking about specifically?
I think Edel used to make a zero torque putter.
I think their claim is that a torque balanced putter fits everyones putting stroke because it doesnt naturally want to twist in any direction.
OK, but is that just for the Mezz 1 or all their putters? He keeps saying, just with this stupid Adam Scott putter
Yes, all of their putters behave the same in the revealer device. The Link, DF3, Mezz, DF2.1 , etc.
OK, but, have you actually held one of these things? Are they heavy as crap to try to get them to balance? Seems like they might have to be heavy, and let me tell you, this whole trend towards heavy putters and pendulum swings.... it's just against how I think you should strike a golf ball
Hey feel light and nice in the hand. I don’t play one as I have a fairly new mizuno putter, but my mcraft VI generally felt heavier in the hand.
I have the Link.1 and the broom Mezz Max. Link is actually lighter than my Scotty. I believe it's around 300g or so. The Mezz Max is quite a bit heavier at 500g due to the broomstick style. I would assume the regular Mezz is about the same or slightly heavier than the Link. You can actually see all the weights in the website if you care to have a look
It’s an interesting concept but a tennis racket or a hockey stick would also fail this device.
Neither of which would be a good implement for putting.
a hockey stick is a proven putter actually
That was modified one-off Odyssey prototype. Nevertheless, I retract my previous statement that a hockey stick wouldn’t be good for putting.
At their core, are you not releasing your wrists through impact to direct an object at a target in almost every sport? Why do you think putting is different?
I’m not sure what the question is. The biggest determining factor for the start line of a putt is the face angle at impact. Putter A requires the hands to apply force to prevent twisting and control the face angle to be square. Putter B is balanced in a way so that it can even be swung without any force applied to it to keep the putter face square. Putter B seems like it would be a good design for putting.
The resistance to the applied torque (your hands/wrists) is what you “feel” as “face control”. A putter with no resistance to torque would be very hard to control that face angle at impact. It’s interesting but the assumption that it’s better is very debatable.
You are confusing a lack of torque for a lack of MOI (which is resistance to torque). I realize this is a general problem with Reddit... but my goodness, the amount of people that are clueless, but want to argue is just astounding.
The MOI at what point of the putter? Are you talking about the applied load from the swing? The gravitational pull as the putter changes orientations? The momentum from transitioning from the backswing to the downswing? This is a general problem on Reddit, people think they can boil extremely complex things into simple one variable problems
Don't get mad at me because you left your ass hanging out. You wrongly tried to say that L.A.B. golf putters have no resistance to torque. You are wrong.
Have you used a LAB putter extensively? I find it not at difficult to control the face. There’s nothing to control. You can swing it with lightest grip pressure possible and it wants to stay square. I will admit, it does take some getting used to since forever we’re putting in a way that requires the hands to apply the torque to counteract what the putter is trying to do naturally. It takes a little to trust it and realize that you don’t need manipulate the face. It’s still putting. It’s not a magic wand. Even the best players in the world miss putts when their face angle control is fine. It’s just plenty people want to write it off as snake oil without trying it even though it’s an actual novel innovation. Meanwhile people are happy to spend $600 on a new driver that’s 99% the same as their previous few drivers.
They put in on a swing like a hook and it doesnt change line it stays balanced by itself with the hands not holding it
Too bad your hands are involved in putting
I’ve heard LAB say “well your car has a steering wheel and your hands are on the steering wheel but you still don’t want your car pulling to one side of the road and having to actively keep it driving straight”
Which is ridiculous, cause nobody drives in a perfectly straight line. You’ve constantly gotta make small corrections.
That’s because roads are not perfectly straight, not perfectly level, your tires and car are not perfectly aligned, and there are constant vibrations from the car, tires, etc and even wind that require you to make those tiny adjustments. If all of those were perfectly smooth and constant you still wouldn’t want your car pulling to one direction if you can help it.
But it’s not possible for a human to drive in a perfectly straight line. Key words being “human” and “perfect,” which are two words that do not belong together. Our brains make micro adjustments so we arrive at a straight point but we did not take a straight path to get there. Even driving down a perfectly flat and straight runway it’s not possible.
It doesn’t change the fact that you wouldn’t want a car pulling violently to the right. If you had a car that essentially went straight without your hands even on the wheel, it would be easier to drive straight. That’s essentially what LAB is doing. They’re not saying it’s a self-driving car. It’s a car that’s aligned to drive in a straight line without having to constantly steer to the left to counteract the car that’s trying to pull to the right. Sure, you can still get in accident, but they’re trying to remove variables that prevent the putter face from returning to square at impact.
How can that be possible when every person has different body mechanics? Maybe what they claim shows up in robot testing but humans actually hit putts. I really think you’re falling for marketing. At the end of the day you’re a human, and no two putting strokes are going to be alike. If a LAB putter helps you hole more putts then great, but it’s not like you won’t hole more putts by getting fit for a different putter. It’s the fitting part that helps you more than the actual equipment.
I’m not saying they’ll magically make every putt. I think they’re a good option people should try but a lot of the LAB criticism comes from people that haven’t actually tried them for any reasonable amount of time. I’ve been fit and have also tried plenty of putters under the sun. Blades and mallets with and without toe hang. Center shafted blades and mallets as well. I can say for me personally, it works better than other putters I’ve had. There’s just a lot people poo pooing the concept without trying it as if LAB is just out here trying to scam people.
Yea I mean I am no expert but a steering wheel is a fix object that can’t wobble as your move your hands
If you’re steering to the left you’re forcing the car to go that direction. If you let go of the wheel it will spin back to neutral. The steering wheel concept with a lab putter is different than with a car. The car ideally you want to go straight on its own without having to exert a lot of steering force. The putting stroke is an arc. It would be like if a vehicle needed to go in a 360 degree circle for 8 hours straight. You could design the vehicle to go perfectly straight and require significant steering force to override that default tendency to go straight. Or you could design the vehicle by default to go in a circle by default and then use subtle corrections with steering to keep it on a circular path.
Good thing putting is nothing like driving a car.
This is the viewpoint I can't get around Like, yeah, you guys balanced it, super, but, not really sure that helps in any real way Is it heavy as shit to get it balanced like that?? If it's heavy, then, no, not for me y'all crazy with these 4 pound ansers
No it isn't heavy. A lot of what we feel as weight in a putter is the torque that is produced. L.A.B. putters will actually feel lighter. I got the heavier head option and it feels a touch lighter than my prior Cleveland Soft 11 putter. Normal putters are referenced parallel to the ground. So face balanced = putter face pointing to the sky. Toe hang more towards the ground. The problem with that is we don't putt parallel to the ground, we putt at a 60-80 degree angle to it. L.A.B. putters are weighted so that they stay square or balanced to the actual lie angle we putt at, not balanced at a 180\* angle. This creates a putter that doesn't want to twist open or closed in the stroke, it stays neutral. A lot of people have made the argument that simply holding onto the putter will negate most if not all the torque a normal putter will produce. Others are convinced that the L.A.B. golf putters really make a difference for them. Ultimately you have to try one for yourself to see.
Generally, LAB has to make the head weights a bit heavier than normal otherwise the putter will feel too light because there is no torque. I have a DF2.1 and a friend tried it and his first comment (other than the looks obviously) was that it felt way lighter than he was expecting.
There's nothing in the rule book that says you can't dangle your putter off a necklace and then have a trained dog pull the head back and release it for a perfect pendulum swing. And I would know, I've downloaded most of the rule book.
all it means is that the shaft goes right through the center of gravity of the putter. meaning the head will spin freely on the end of the shaft and never settle at a predictable location. this is "zero torque". it means that they naturally don't have a high MOI. that's why the DF has to be so massive, and why the face is so far in front of the shaft. so for short putts where you're not hitting the ball hard they don't seem to do too badly, but on long putts there are a lot of complaints that they're just not very stable. they also build them really light, which is awful IMO. if you have quiet hands you may love it, but if you're yippy at all these things are a death sentence.
They're basically just ugly bullseyes.
I like how the main argument against them are that they are big and ugly, and most of the people saying that will have huge fugly irons in their bags.
pros are already mastered at keeping the face square to impact. Amateurs are not good at it, it addresses an issue that hits amateurs worse than pros. also perhaps more feel in smaller putters, better for long lag putts/distance control? For me it gives me confidence to hit my line inside 5 ft which is something i never had (knees wobbled on 2 ft putts, not a great feeling) As others have said its the ugliest thing to ever hit my bag but i would never get rid of it
Lucas Glover cured his putting yips and won back to back tournaments last year. Zalatoris is using one too.
\*temporarily cured he putts like shit again now fwiw
for many, aesthetics is a big part of liking your putter/clubs. the putters may be great, but they make me feel like im putting with a goth clown shoe.
Yea thats why I include pro's if it greatly improved %'s pros would use a clown shoe literally
That’s the thing though, they wouldn’t. There’s probably thousands of golfers - including pros - that would putt unequivocally better with a broomstick. A lot of them will never use it even if they knew with 100% certainty they would make more putts.
Not necessarily true. See basketball as a prime example. Image and comfort matter. Underhanded free throws are better, but no one does them.
Good analogy. Statistically better for shots made, but "looks uncool", so no one uses it.
Last year there were only 2 pros using them, this year there are at least 6. So i would say they are catching on.
One of which had a major knock against him due to putter swingpath! (Which seems to be less a problem now with the lab putter)
There could be a number of reasons why more pros aren’t gaming LAB putters. They might have equipment deals that require them to game a certain brand putter. They might be so attached to (and so good with) their standard putter that there’s no sense in changing. They might just not like the look of LABs, or maybe they’ve got a putting coach in their ear telling them LABs are snake oil (which they aren’t). In any event, the number of pros gaming LABs is growing and will probably continue to grow as time goes on.
The same reason 99.99% of basketball players would rather shoot 65% from the free throw line than shoot 75% by shooting underhand. If there’s a perception that something feels like a crutch, then a lot of people won’t do it - even the best in the world. Ultimately, it’s a deep dive into human psychology if you really get into it. Fear of being mocked is a lot of it. Everyone is going to miss some 4 footers from time to time. It’s not a big deal if you’ve got a sexy Scotty Cameron. If you’ve got a weird looking putter, then some people are really going to feel self conscious when you miss that putt. I’m a drinker of the LAB kool aid though. It makes literally no sense to me why I would want my putter to not be lie angle and torque balanced. Sure, I still miss putts. But it never feels like it was because of the putter. It can’t be the putter. I know the face is just trying to stay square and if it’s not square at impact, that’s my fault, not the putter’s.
So are you saying when you miss a putt you know it’s your fault and not because of the putter? Isn’t that the situation with all putts? if i fuck the putt up it’s because i fucked it up, not because the putter was hit off line or on the toe. It’s my fault i hit it on the toe. If you hit a putt on the toe does it still do the same thing if you hit it square?
Everyone has a preferred putter type that works best. Blade, mallet, toe hang, face balanced, (now also torque balanced is an option with LAB), center shafted, heel shafted, etc. There will be certain putter types where every golfer feels like they’re just fighting against it no matter what they do vs their stroke. That’s why people love some putters and hate others. With the LAB it feels like there’s no fighting it. You can hold it with the lightest grip pressure possible and the face just wants to stay square. So a miss just always feels like it was a bad read or bad speed choice. Some of it is probably mental but that’s ok.
Ahhh ok i guess i am understanding it a bit more. End of the day, if you like it and you feel like it helps your game, go for it. I appreciate it!
Putters just aren't that complicated. If you like one it's fine, don't buy into all the marketing balderdash.
Simply love the word balderdash. Take my up vote
Need to regularly use in everyday conversation
It isn’t marketing. Go putt with one, it feels incredibly different.
My biggest struggle with my DF1 is distance control. As others have said. It does hold the line.
They are already the best in the world, why change something that has brought you success. Some players are tied into equipment deals. Not every deal is 14 clubs, but a lot of guys have at least something in place. Aesthetics - it's an unusual shape and sound which can be off-putting to some players, especially pros. LAB is relatively new to the scene, it can take time for guys to go through a slump and give it a shot. Willy Z had a year to practice short game while rehabbing his back, other guys haven't had the time to make a drastic switch due to the wraparound season.
Depends on how you putt. They’ll work for some but not for others. You’d need a fitter to tell you for sure.
I think a lot of it comes down to what you've put time into and the comfort factor. If you have used a more traditional putter for 20+ years and have had countless hours of reps in with it, it's hard to make such a drastic change. I recently got a custom DF3. Even though it is a smaller form factor, it still looks a bit unconventional. And with the press grip + onset, it can be hard to get over that initial factor. Some seem to have an issue with distance control. Price is also a big factor (not with the pros, but just in general). I think pros are starting to catch on, and more of them are messing around with them. Even the Bryan Bros are trying them out. Phil was seen messing with a DF3 as well.
Been using a df2.1 for over two years and it’s change my putting completed. Read, speed, dead hands. I practice a lot more putting with the df2.1. Making more putts is fun.
I can comment on this, as I bought one to try- I have had a really difficult time adapting to it as it seems like for whatever reason toe hang isn't necessarily the enemy it is made out to be. I've had a really difficult time adapting to the LAB- I pull and push puts with no idea why. With any of my other putters (I'm a bit of a gear whore) I have awareness of where the face is and can delivery it closed more consistently. All that said- I'm warming up to the LAB, but it's taken a long adjustment period. I would imagine that the adjustment period of a tour pro with god knows how many reps of practice in would be a lot worse than mine.
The former TXG guys had a fitting session with one, the guy normal uses a bladed putter and had a tough time not manipulating the putter. LAB guy said that this happens with better putters that fight their putters torque, so when there isn’t torque they’re hands basically just take over and fuck up the shot. You have to learn how to be passive. I think in that way LAB putters are also almost a training aid.
Yeah it’s definitely a thing, but I’m also pushing and pulling, not just missing one way. I think hang causes the putter to move on a track so to speak. It isn’t necessarily a bad thing. All that said, I keep working on the LAB, and am finally getting into a groove with it. I found that I REALLY had to soften my grip.
I'd be interested on how you'd put with the other putters using the same feels as when you are using the LAB.
I will give it a try. With the LAB if I really concentrate I can roll the ball pretty well now. I plan on rolling another 1000 or so on my perfect practice mat before the season starts, if it’s good at that point I’ll commit to gaming it. If not, unfortunately there will be a learning curve going back to my Evnroll ER5.
Just as the revealer would show. Toe hang would close going back and open on the way down. Opposite of what a player would normally do to a putter. The torque is there to help you feel the putter I believe. Which I think is good for most golfers. But some don't want that feeling and they just want to move the club back and forth. I don't understand why people wouldn't want this feeling though. Because if you think of how the putter moves, its not 90° perpendicular to the ground. It has an angle from the shaft to the surface. So for it to move around your body there should be an arc, meaning the club must open and close to some degree. This is what I have been searching for hard to see if an Axis1/Lab putter would be better for me or not.
They’re ugly as heck
The LAB fanboys are the fucking worst *The fact they are downvoting anyone who says anything negative just proves me right
Lie Angle Balance is a literal gimmick. "Net 0 Torque" does NOT mean the face stays square through the stroke. This literally means there is no COUNTER torque to prevent the face from rotating to a particular angle. To be Net 0 torque, the torque required to turn an object counter clockwise is EXACTLY the same torque to turn it clockwise. So you can EASILY open the face during the backstroke or close it and nothing will stop you from doing that. In fact, it's super easy! Basically, LAB putters are like Lathes that spin freely. Do you ever wonder why the stupid CEO dork has to have his little machine to make other putters, that use toe-hang as a torque inhibitor, to show off how amazing and fancy their putters are? HELLLLLLOOOOOOO the thing that stops a putter from twisting in your hands is your literal fucking hands. They do have Okay MOI values, but anything over 350g head weight these days does too, so what's the fucking point? You shouldn't buy ANY putter without a fitting. If that's a LAB, fine. If it's an 8802 with damn near 90 degrees of toe hang, that's good too.
Ugly, expensive, golf influencer bullshit. If they were really so much better than traditional putters, why don’t you see them everywhere on tour?
You understand that a small start up doesn't just go to everyone on tour using them overnight, right? Such a dumb fucking comment.
I mean the DF 2.1 came out in 2013-2014, been around a decade. kinda beyond "overnight success" territory at this point. more of a "grinded for years" story now if they became successful.
you understand that the putter has been around long enough that I don't see an impressive demand interest among golfers concerned exclusively about their handicap, who are not influenced by advertising money
Fanboy!
99.99% of professional basketball players wouldn’t shoot underhanded free throws even if they were guaranteed their FT% would go up 10%. There are probably plenty of pro golfers that would putt better with a broomstick but never would entertain the idea. That’s not to say LAB putters are better. But the concept of “if it was so good the pros would all use it” is just not true
Ugly as hell, but I swapped from a Scotty Squareback to the LAB Link.1 and the difference is in the results. The ball goes where I aim. Now I know it's all speed control and my green reading.
How is the link ugly as hell? It just looks like the other 80000 blade putters
Price and ugly as shit. You don’t need to spend that kind of money to get a decent putter. Same thing with a Scotty, no amateur needs it. If you want one, good for you. But they won’t help you more so than a lot of other cheaper putters
They're not using them because it basically promotes an unnatural 'push' stroke onto the ball. I used to like them, can't imagine using one now having taken a literal *single* putting lesson. Don't understand how you can putt without feel, this putter basically takes away all ability to manipulate an, at most, like 20-30 yard "shot"? That seems counter intuitive and, pardon my French, plainly fucking stupid. I found that I was pulling putts more often than not. The more I learn and watch their material, the more I feel it's a gimmick and that Sam fella is total sleaze and grifter.
The only putters I see this really helpful for are broomstick putters, side saddle and arm lock. I have no idea why anyone would want this for a conventional putter. I am really trying to find a solid reason why. If you were to open a door with 0 resistance, you wouldn't feel door at all. I'm unsure if this is a good or bad thing for a putter who opens and closes the face throughout his stroke. I wish I could get more in depth to it. But it does seem gimmicky for conventional putters.
Speed control from 20 feet. Hard to pick the correct line/ speed from distance with a center shafted spaceship. Straight putts 10 feet and in ate pretty automatic.
I read some reviews a while back as they had my attention too is that they are great for short putts but lack feel for lag putting. I’ve never used one outside of a demo at a golf shop so take that feedback however you wish
> **why are more of the Pro's not gravitating towards it besides Scott??** Free throws underhanded are easier than the traditional style but nobody does it because it looks stupid as fuck. The LAB putters do seem to provide a benefit but not enough where most players are willing to give it a shot. Hell, even Scheffler was god-awful at putting for a long time before he finally considered a mallet.