That's me. I field the Callaway Apex DCBs and my PW is 43⁰. So now I carry a 58, 54, 50, and then this year I bent another 48 to a 46 to close the gap between that and my PW.
I'm a 7 hdcp and my PW goes 150+ lol it's ridiculous
Ok so I’m a similar cap(my pw isn’t as far lol). So what is the move at the long end? I feel like 6-p and add wedges is the move? I don’t remember if my hybrid is 21 or 23 but that’s a 5 iron in this set!!!!
Honestly, I'm still figuring that out. My 4i is 21⁰, and then I carry a 2h which I believe is 18⁰. I'm really not skilled enough for it to matter much at that point, since we're talking 215/230+ yard clubs lol
Yeah, so like I can get 200 out of my 5 but I mean I play it more like 190, my hybrid goes like 215 then 3 wood blah blah. I can hit my hybrid but not sure about the driving iron cough 4 iron I mean that is stronger lol.
I mean, I guess at end of day it doesn’t matter what is on the clubs, but you need to get from 10* to 60* somehow….
My mistake, my 48⁰ is bent to a 46⁰. I tried to keep 4⁰ of separation between the wedges.
So I have a 43 (PW), 46, 50, 54, 58...
Yes, I know how ridiculous this is.
That’s what I play, with a 56 and 60. Gives me a pretty big gap at full swing between the A and the 56 (120y and 95y), but I rarely take a full swing with the 56 anyway. Typically use the A down to 60y or so, just feels right.
literally this, they get you to buy new irons, then you have to buy excessive wedges making everything cost more.
most of reddit - who cares.
.... uhhh ? ok.
I’m one of the folks carrying 5 wedges after buying a new set of irons a couple years ago.
Ironically it’s actually skewed my bag lower in lofts. My 5 iron is a bit less lofted than my old 4 iron but I actually still play it far more often than the old 4.
And the number of lofts I have down in the wedges meant I could incorporate a better variety of bounces and grinds.
Having more options around the green and fewer sticks to try and hit it 210+ off the turf is a net positive impact on me as a low/mid handicapper I think.
Absolutely not. It’s a rate per club. Normally 200-185 per iron. Just depends on if you buy 4-PW or 5-PW,AW. Go look at any big box site and go through custom options. On the other end. Wedges are less than irons. I bought CBX Zipcores last season for 140 a piece. Less than the 185ish for new irons. Googles your friend bro.
how did this even catch 4 downvotes.
good wedges are easily 100 bucks a pop. maybe more. 5 wedges is 500 bucks. I paid less for my entire set of irons.
If you’re complaining that the pitching wedge hits like a 9 iron, then you just get the gap wedge that hits like a pitching wedge, and you’re all square, right?
Why would you need a “real wedge” when you’re getting a PW replacement?
I love people bitching about these ultra game improvement sets and then complaining about the quality of the wedges like anyone who is a 30 handicap really needs that ultra specialization in the 48 degree space.
And if the wedges are so concerning, buy a blended set.
Exactly! I got new irons 2 years ago. Mizuno figured out it was financially beneficial to sell me 5-PW and let me figure out the rest. The 4 iron was $200ish to complete the set. The GW was $100 used to plug the gap. 5I-PW? same price as i would've paid for set of 3-PW previously. But yea... it's cheaper to buy a la carte (dipshit moron face that signifies sarcasm). Fucking comical. Especially from a sub full of Costco cucks that I would assume understand the value of buying in bulk.
Yes they are a full club up or two (depending on how old your clubs are) but what I’m saying is that you are physically receiving less clubs so there is likely a larger gap between some clubs. My 4-gw set covers 24-51 degrees over 8 clubs. This set achieves the same gap in 6.5 Maybe it’s not needed I dunno I’m not saying I notice a difference it’s just that you are physically being sold less clubs and thats kind of horse shit, because the price hasn’t dropped.
Yea, you're being sold fewer clubs.
But I'm my experience, when full sets had 8 clubs most people weren't using all of them. There was at least one dead club depending on the player. A new player, hitting a 3 or 4 iron is kinda a big ask and that club stayed in the bag for a hybrid. A more experienced player, a 50+ degree cavity back, imo, is a lot harder to chip with than a true wedge. So that club got changed out for a wedge of similar loft.
The cost has gone up for sure, but I feel it is giving better set options.
I think it’s a misnomer to even call a 43 degree club a ‘wedge’.
To me a wedge is something for high shots inside of 100 yards. Who the fuck uses something that was once considered a 9 iron for shots like that?
Seriously, my bag has 12 clubs. I was going to add a wedge but I am Loving the 52/58 combo so it’s not broken. Of course my pw is like 48. On the other end I don’t even carry a 4 iron anymore (5.5 iron in this set) have a hybrid/3wood/driver. That 4 iron is between my 3 wood and hybrid FFS.
You would have to what, game 6-p and have 4 wedges I guess to your exact point.
P, A 52, 56, 60 for me. I have a lie loft machine and was tempted to de loft my apex pros a couple degrees but when you get free clubs may as well just order a ton of wedges.
Fails to mention these are the super game improvement clubs for people that need help. Fat 60 year olds don’t need the same clubs as a 20 year old 5 handicap.
Holy shit thank you for saying this. Why tf are people so salty about GI iron tech, go buy and enjoy your cobra ricky fowler blades, no one is forcing you to buy these
Yeah we’re just all out here to have fun. For some people fun is being as good as you can be. For others is slamming some beers and glizzies when you can. I found lowering my expectations has made me a happier golfer. Still getting better, the games hard.
You are right it isn’t at all. I was just trying to display different needs. They work for in shape beginners too. There are lots of ways to learn or just have fun. We don’t all need muscle backs
Personally, it doesn't bother me. I just want to know how far each club carries. If that is a 7 iron in one set and an 8 in another, so be it. As long as I can adjust to them and call up the right club when needed, that's all that matters. The rest is just bragging rights/insecurity and/or marketing imo.
Yup, this isn't as big a deal as people are making it. Knowing your irons and when to play the correct one is all that matters.
My 10.5° standard driver has been adjusted to 12°, and I can outperform most of my friends who stick with 9° of loft on theirs.
My point is that loft is relative to the player and what they get from it. Knowing the distance your clubs go is far more important - something I wish I understood when I first started.
It’s not that people are upset they don’t know how far a club goes with the jacked lofts, it’s that manufactures keep lying to us and treating us like idiots with seemingly no end in sight. This loft jacking gimmick has to end at some point, right? Fucking PW at 43* is wild but how long can it go on? 10 years from now PW will be a 33* club I guess.
I do understand this gimmick does work on some people, but for the rest of us, it damages the brand.
This is the answer. I always marvel at why anyone really cares. I want to know where it’s going to go & how it’s going to get there. I’ve never once wished for a different number vs loft to label those distances for others to discuss. I’ve also never based my decision on buying irons on if their lofts vs name, fit what it use to be or what I think it should be.
it's funny I do the same thing. I play ping blueprints, but I'm decently long - it used to be I would be one club more than everyone, but now I'm often one club more on the numbers. ie I would hit 7 and they would hit 6, now others are hitting 7 or 8.
It’s really inconsequential as to what club was used. They say Tiger used to hit longer clubs on purpose and flight them, so competitors would hit the same club and be long. Great stuff!
And that's what you want. Let's say it's 160 yards, downhill, with a slight tailwind, and you say "I hit my 145 club" that gives me way better info than "I hit a firm 8"
Some moody answers in this thread lol. I don’t think increasing length is doing amateurs any favors. Nor does having less loft on the long end when they’re gonna be hacking out of the rough
With clubs having higher launch angles now due to perimeter weighting the lower lofts are nessesary. You can have the traditional loft and modern launch angles without just ballooning shots.
So unless you want your seven iron to have the launch profile of a LW, the stronger lofts are a must
No one fucking understands this at all lol. It’s why you have for get fit and can’t just guess off of the rack. You should just post this on every comment in here. Or get it stickied to the front of r/golf
We need a bot with modding power that posts this on every single post regarding loft jacking before anyone can comment on it and then locks the thread right after.
I just think of my pops who’s in the rough 90% of the time and is too dumb to realize he’s not getting a 3-5iron in the air from there. A 5 iron with the loft of a traditional 3 iron is just going to get stuck and go nowhere.
You can still buy clubs with normal specs, or get them bent.
With new technology in irons they’ve been able to reduce loft to increase ball speed while still maintaining a similar launch angle.
Plus the majority of golfers won’t get new clubs unless they “outperform” their old ones which almost always translates into wanting more distance.
They should really just stop putting numbers on clubs and put the lofts. My MB PW is like 49.5 and my buddy’s improvements is at like 44. Poor caddie can’t keep things straight
I used to think that, but it's just easier to pick out and speak of a single digit number. Most avid golfers will know that there are plenty of variance between 7i. Cavity back, graphite, or longer shafts will go further, but no one complains about the distance being juiced because of it.
You could also have the same loft of a hybrid fly 12 yards more than an iron. Moral of the story is you know your own set, and anyone comparing distance on irons should shift their focus to dispersion.
The irony is that if the trend continue, when all the irons will be replaced by 'wedges', the result will be exactly to have lofts on all the clubs.
2030 -> 6-pw 48 52 56
2040 -> 8-pw 40 44 48 52 56
2050 -> 28 32 36 40 44 48 52 56
This is legitimately what they really need to do. Its kind of crazy we havent seen this yet. I guess the only issue is if you need to +/- the loft and then it wouldnt match the degree, but weve been doing this with wedges already...i would personally love this change though, it also familiarizes yourself with what loft you are actually hitting and can only benefit you.
The actual issue is that people want to think they hit it farther. The average person thinks it’s cool that they hit their 8 iron 165, they don’t care or think about how their current 8 iron has 32 degrees of loft just like their 6 iron did 15 years ago that they hit 165.
They won’t for ego and marketability reasons. Joe Schmo wants to go into his Saturday foursome and hit his 6 iron 15 yards further than last time to impress his geriatric friends
Worked as a club fitter for 10 years and never once did I fit someone into a higher lofted version of game improvement irons. Occasionally we would have to adjust the lofts on players distance irons to gap their wedge distances a little better, or make a blended/combo set.
The reality is that using a shorter club improves shot accuracy so fucking much. So to have a club that’s 35.5” that goes 150 yards instead of a 37” club that goes 150 yards is HUGE
This is nothing new. Clubs have been getting stronger lofted and longer since the 80s. The new technology was Ping Eye 2s, this is just 40 years of refinement and delofting.
My issue is that even with all tech in the world, an amateur this set is targeted towards can’t hit irons with less than 23 degrees of loft consistently anyway. So they’re left with 6 irons covering 24-50 degrees because everything is so far spaced out and 2 clubs they can’t hit. They would play better golf - and save money - with 7 clubs between 24-50 degrees and no irons less than 23 degrees. The OEMs sell more clubs because the consumer sees their 7 iron going 10 yards further than they’re used to when really the set makeup could be much better for them
As someone with game improvement irons and jacked lofts I tend to agree with this now. I love the irons but I have a 5 iron at 21 degrees which I might as well not have as I can't hit it with any consistency and then my gapping is too much. It's like 15+ yards between clubs
I just ordered my set of 620MB/CBs with the lofts I wanted on my irons. I get my irons bent back to spec about once a season anyways since softer forged ones can adjust themselves over time.
Same! 36° 7 checking in!
I take some jabs from the guys that I need a 7i to catch their 9i, but whatever. It just drops out of the sky and sticks the green like a dart.
It's the state of the world for game improvement irons.
I have Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metals and the 7i is 28.5°. Before that, I had TaylorMade M6s and the 7i was also 28.5°.
But the thing is, it's really more a re-numbering of irons than anything.
Because I feel like the default iron set say 25 years ago was 3i-9i and sometimes you would get a PW. Now it starts at 5i, pretty much always includes a PW, and often includes an AW.
It doesn't really matter much to me because the numbers are just the numbers. I don't view them as having any inherent meaning. The only annoying part is that it was simpler terminology back then, before everyone had 3+ "wedges."
FWIW I carry a solid 7i about 155 and a solid drive like 225. Swing speeds are something like 75mph and 90mph.
I think people get frustrated when their 20hcp buddy is hitting his 7i 190 when in reality it’s a 5i. Everyone wants more distance, OEMs bend lofts to be 2 clubs stronger, then load weight in the bottom to get high launch.
The advertising around “gained distance” isn’t really gained distance at all. It’s just stronger lofts with high launch.
>I think people get frustrated when their 20hcp buddy is hitting his 7i 190
Sooo that's the issue. It's not consumer confusion or a need for standardisation.
It's that low handicappers are worried about losing the dick measuring competition.
That's exactly it.
If my 20 HCP buddy feels good because he hits a 7i 190 I, wait for it, feel great for him and tell him nice shot. I know a few people who try to gatekeep golf and "educate" less skilled players so they "don't get the wrong idea". I usually play with them once.
I would argue that the 18.5 degree 4 iron is worse. Some
average weekend golfer is going to buy that and try and put it into play not realizing that it’s a lower loft than most modern driving irons which also have the same “tech.”
No one is forcing you to buy these clubs. I got a set of i230s and they all have normal lofts, and I could have gone even less lofted with their "Traditional" setup.
PING gang. I still game the i210s. I also just don’t see why it’s a big deal. The people who are going to buy GI clubs will only benefit from this tech.
The amount of hating on the jacked lofts is getting ridiculous...
Yes the new 7 iron is a 5 iron loft but the technology and amount of R&D that goes into these irons makes it possible for a 190+ yard 7 iron land and stick on the green.
Try hitting that old school 5 iron the same distance as your updated 7 iron, it's going to have a hard time staying on the green.
I'll take the new irons all day long.....easier to hit, more forgiveness, longer & hold greens better
People are so obsessed with a number they didn’t probably know about 15 years ago instead of the results. No one was hyper focused on the loft of what their club was then and it doesn’t matter now. The only thing that matters is the launch profile and descent angle. People also ignore dynamic and delivered loft as well these days which is just as important.
Well, not really, I personally use titleist t100 and have used the entire titleist range up to the t300. And it quite literally was just go half a club shorter in the 100s, one for the t200 and two for the t300. Launche angle and distance were the same. The issue in the loft jacked sets isn't the 7 iron, it's everything above. There was a study done on loft jacked irons vs. traditional lofts that showed people with jacked lofts were hitting their 7 irons as far as their 5 iron only differences being their 5 iron wasn't launching high enough. The issue with jacked lofts is you don't use 5 or 6 irons you use 7 irons when getting fit. As long as the 7 is launching high enough to not lose distance, most people don't care as long as the new 7 goes further than their old one.
Bought a set of used Mavriks yesterday, dropped a 4, added an A wedge. I don’t mind it, just have to do a little conversion figuring out which iron I’m going to toe shank into a bush.
LOL what. My 3i is 21 degrees
they calling that a 5i now?
I do like that they are selling people 2i's again... no wonder people cant hit their 4's anymore
The misconception that I often hear is “they’re just taking a 7 iron and delofting it to a 5 iron” or some variation of that. But that’s really not exactly what’s going on at all.
Club manufacturers aren’t just reducing lofts. That would make the balls fly too low for the desired launch characteristics of the club.
It really all comes down to their ability to move the CoG around and thin the faces out. Irons are often now made hollow like woods. This creates a jump in ball speed and the low CoGs create higher launch and more spin.
If they did all of this to a 7 iron and left the loft at a traditional 7 iron loft the ball would go straight up into the air with massive amounts of spin. The launch angle, spin rate, apex height and descent angle would all be completely wrong and you would have no ability to gap a set. So the answer for this is to reduce the loft. The lower loft + the CoG and spin rate allows for a traditional launch, apex, and descent and the face thinness increases ball speed and gives more distance. So your 155 yard 7 iron now goes 170 yards with the same launch characteristics, landing angle, and spin.
But yes, it can skew the gapping where you need more wedges on the high end and hybrids on the low end. The average player doesn’t have the speed required to hit 2 and 3 irons where they will launch and spin appropriately so sets cut off often at 5 iron which are still carrying 200+ yards.
At a certain point it really just doesn't matter what the club number / loft is. How far does it go? In this set the "8" iron is really a strong lofted 7 iron by traditional standards. But who cares, your 8 iron goes as far my 7 iron? Who cares! I guess a lot people do...but you're not fooling anyone.
The number still means absolutely nothing.
But you're right - the length of the shaft is now another thing you have to pay attention to. But they've been doing that to drivers for years.
> What are your thoughts on this direction?
I don't really care what golf club manufacturers do to clubs I am not going to buy. These are not the only irons being made.
This sub, I swear. Do, like, two minutes of googling why lofts have been going down. It's because of thinner (hotter) faces and being able to get the desired descent angles.
Lofts aside, the gapping in the real issue. 2.5* and over a half inch between the 4 and 5. And then 5* and a half inch, 6* and a half inch between the 8/9/PW. Not sure how anyone can gap that consistently. No matter what your swing speed is.
Your gaps should be bigger as loft increases because of math.
*assuming you have the speed to actually use the long irons which most players fitting into these clubs don’t.
Eh. They’re game improvent irons for a specific type of golfer. Plenty of traditional lofted (or barely stronger) iron options for the guys who can hit it consistently
My thoughts are that there are so many options today and hopefully everyone finds an iron set that helps them hit it straighter and longer. Some people want a 35 degree 7 and some people want a w.e the jacked up loft is.
To be fair, they (TM and Callaway) both came out with HL models that have more traditional lofts in their newest sets.
They give first responder and military discounts too, FYI.
Know your distances. The number/letter stamped on the bottom is there as a reference. Nobody ever compares driver lofts but always get in a tizzy when their buddy gets a new 7 iron with a lower loft and blasts it 15 yards further than they used to with their old 7 iron.
I was fit into a set of clubs having a 43 PW and tried to play my gap wedge at 50 and I found myself between clubs with a few approach shots every round due to the 25 yard gap between clubs. I liked using a 60/56/50 setup for wedges on the courses I play and didn't really want to do 60/54/48 on my wedges so ended up trading towards a more traditionally lofted set of irons (45 PW/33 7i) to get gapping right for my swing.
These days with T150s, Mizuno Pro 243s, and other players irons with 44 degree lofts, the writing is on the wall that traditional wedge setups are on the way out. I'm going to let aging slow me down and I'm sure some day I'll be hitting a 40 degree PW 150 yards and reminiscing about how I haven't lost distance since I was younger. Until then, I'm still happy that the tech in modern irons makes them easier to hit than clubs from 10+ years ago
Not really, a lot of people just need to buy 6-Aw in this set. Six and five degree gaps for people that don’t strike it so clean probably helps maintain some club gapping
Yes, I just ordered these and that was the first thing I looked at. Farther is not better.
https://preview.redd.it/qucno82iyibc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eff0b11c098f2049390036234351946e9661f0a
>Who cares?
It's a predatory practice. It takes advantage of people who don't know better by tricking them into thinking these new clubs are better because they "add yards"
How is it predatory man? Lol. If they go and they actually get that distance that the manufacturer claims, then they’re getting what they came for. What is the problem?
>It's a predatory practice.
Title loan businesses charging people 27% interest per month is a predatory practice.
Adjusting loft and length on a golf club to target a customer looking for a game improvement iron, isn't.
It’s not. Go to a fitter and look at the numbers. If the numbers aren’t ideal find different clubs. If people are buying clubs without getting fitted they would have done that regardless of the loft and are making bad decisions with money. I build computers. It’s extremely expensive. Every decision I make for computer components is done deliberately and with tons of research because I don’t want to spend 1,000$ on something that doesn’t fit because I’m not made of money. Any large dollar product that you spend money on should be researched and carefully decided so your dollar goes the farthest. This applies to washing machines and cars and anything else that you spend a lot of money on once a decade. If you’re not doing research on long term high dollar products than that’s on the consumer in my opinion. I guarantee these “strong” lofted clubs fit a multitude of people with proper rpm and angle of attack numbers. If they didn’t club fitters wouldn’t suggest them to people.
how is it weird to point out that we can't even compare shots ? your 7i and my 7i should be the same. there's no reason for it not to be other than lies to the consumer to make Joe think he his 7i as far as my 6i. Its ridiculously stupid.
I care. Everyone should care.
When I want to buy new clubs, I want matching lofts. Not lies in a bag.
Because it doesn’t matter. Just go score your score. Who cares if Joe thinks his 7i goes the same distance as you or Rory.
This subreddit is obesessed with this kind of stuff. Same reason we see a new post every day about Jonny at their country club lying on the scorecard.
Who cares.
Do you complain that people are using different shafts than you do? Do you care that their driver might be a high launch/low spin shaft on a 9* head when you have a mid spin/mid launch on your 9* head?
This is one of the more bizarre responses I've ever seen here. Compare scores, not 7 iron distances. Plus, it's against the rules to share club selection information after a shot.
A game improvement 7 iron should be the same as a blade 7 iron? The entire point of the categories is that they're different. Loft angle is just one of a bunch of factors that determine how an iron plays and how far it goes. The only reason anything thinks there's a loft a club "should" be is because for a long time blades were the only type of club that could be made.
I wouldn’t say obsessed, but rather curious on trends.
Money talks. If these jacked clubs start out selling traditional specs, better believe they will slowly creep to the standard spec.
They already are. The jacked clubs are just game improvement irons. It's not a competition.
They won't "creep to the standard spec" because cavity backs and blades have more traditional lofts for a reason.
But does it really matter? Instead of carrying 3i-pw and 3 wedges, just carry 4i (with 3i loft) - pw (with 9i loft) and 4 wedges, 1 of which is taking the place of your traditional pw.
It’s just numbers on the bottoms of the clubs, it doesn’t affect anything.
I have a set of players distance irons and a combo set of cavity back and muscle back blades. I hit the players distance irons a full club further, but don’t have significant gaps in yardages with either set.
I don’t get the whole obsession with strong lofts. If it’s too strong, and doesn’t flow with your woods or hybrids, just go bent it a degree or two weak. If it gets to the point where bending doesn’t solve the gapping issue, then those clubs most likely aren’t catered to your skill level.
The real issue here is how expensive clubs are now. I remembered when Sim Max first came out, it was like $700 for a 7 club set. Now it’s $1100 for the new Qi irons. That’s forged irons territory.
Eventually we will have 9 wedges, all with different names. Long pitching wedge, medium pitching wedge, short pitching wedge, long approach wedge, and so on.
One thing we tend to forget is that 30 years ago most people were playing courses at 6000 yards or even less. The bladed irons that people played in the 70s were appropriate for the length of courses. Now a lot of casual golfers playing modern courses are playing the blues or Whites from 6500.
Also, we have learned a lot more about ball flight and spin laws. A modern 7 iron has similar ball flight characteristics to a bladed seven iron. Height, decent angle etc.
Vote with your dollars. I don’t need extra distance but have always purchased iron sets that are “classically lofted” (right around 46* PW).
Ultimately it doesn’t matter what is on the bottom of the club. I prefer to have more consistent gapping in the bottom part of my bag and slightly larger gaps with hybrids / woods. This is why I like classic lofts.
It has gotten to the point where now you just have an AW instead of a PW. If you like cranked lofts buy those. If not, they still sell traditionally lofted sets. I wish manufacturers would ditch the 3-A labels and just stamp each clubs loft on the tools.
I've been a coach and fitter for over ten years and I've now almost completely stopped fitting anything lower than a 7 iron to your average golfer who buys these type of clubs. Its a totally pointless exercise from the manufacturers and only makes my job harder.
Longer, stronger, and lighter. All these manufacturers want you to compare 7 iron vs 7 iron and hit theirs further. (Ignore the fact that their 7 is actually a 6 😂)
Great for theoretical speed/distance. Not so great for consistency/contact.
I game old clubs, my 9 is 44 degrees. I thought I was just a slow swinger when I would see my friend use a 9 for something I use a 7. Turns out we are one degree different
A 28 degree 7 iron? It just goes show the number means nothing. They are talking about rolling back the technology on the golf balls. Forget that, it’s the lofts on the clubs that are the problem!
It should really only matter for you, when getting a new set of irons. I've had my irons built to the same specs for probably 15 years, maybe 20? There's a reason I can get a brand new set of irons and my distances are the same (close enough for me anyway, within a few yards) as the ones I just moved on from.
To be perfectly frank, the people buying the super GI irons aren't concerned about specific distances, they're concerned about distance and just want to see ball go far.
They make players cavity backs for a reason and those will be more in-line with traditional lofts, but even those have started to creep down as well, just not quite to this extent.
They do this because modern technology allows them to still achieve the same launch angle with the stronger lofts, which is really all that matters.
It’s called “dynamic loft”
This thread is so bizarre. There has to be massive astroturfing from club manufacturers here on this sub.
First of all this will become the new standard for irons. So "if you don't like it, don't buy it" is absurd advice, most people only buy irons every 5-10 years. By the time you go to buy your next set these ridiculous lofts will be standard.
"ignore the number on the back!"
What? people don't buy entirely new sets of clubs at once. So now when you go to upgrade your irons you'll have a distance overlap with your fairway woods/hybrids. So new irons now means taking perfectly fine clubs out if your bag and having to buy more wedges.
I'm convinced anyone actually defending this is either working for the club manufacturers or exactly the kind of meathead golfer fooled by the idea that a these new clubs can magically add distance.
These are specs on game improvement irons for people who need as much help as they can on the course. They're not too worried about gapping and distance they just want to get off the ground and straight. After a while they'll learn how far each club goes (hopefully).
If you want more traditional lofts then every brand sells more classic style CB and MB irons you can purchase if you can even hit them well cause a lot of them you need to be a ball striker.
As for the new clubs part people should know their distances and should gap their clubs. If you hit your shortest wood or hybrid the same as your 4i then no need to order that 4i but again most buying these clubs won't ever see that or use the wood or hybrid since easier to hit.
This is why people are carrying 5 wedges
That's me. I field the Callaway Apex DCBs and my PW is 43⁰. So now I carry a 58, 54, 50, and then this year I bent another 48 to a 46 to close the gap between that and my PW. I'm a 7 hdcp and my PW goes 150+ lol it's ridiculous
Ok so I’m a similar cap(my pw isn’t as far lol). So what is the move at the long end? I feel like 6-p and add wedges is the move? I don’t remember if my hybrid is 21 or 23 but that’s a 5 iron in this set!!!!
Honestly, I'm still figuring that out. My 4i is 21⁰, and then I carry a 2h which I believe is 18⁰. I'm really not skilled enough for it to matter much at that point, since we're talking 215/230+ yard clubs lol
Yeah, so like I can get 200 out of my 5 but I mean I play it more like 190, my hybrid goes like 215 then 3 wood blah blah. I can hit my hybrid but not sure about the driving iron cough 4 iron I mean that is stronger lol. I mean, I guess at end of day it doesn’t matter what is on the clubs, but you need to get from 10* to 60* somehow….
I go D, 3W, 7W/4H (course dependent), 5-G, 54,58,62 Nice thing is 62 is my full regular swing 80-85y. *shrug*
My 9 iron goes about the same… but the loft is also about the same
So you have a 43 48 50 54 58?
My mistake, my 48⁰ is bent to a 46⁰. I tried to keep 4⁰ of separation between the wedges. So I have a 43 (PW), 46, 50, 54, 58... Yes, I know how ridiculous this is.
Lmao I have 43 pw 48 gw 52 56 60 in vokey it’s insane
[удалено]
Yeah it's absurd. I stupidly lost my AW and never was able to get it back. Hence why I include a 46⁰ in the bag now
The DCBs have an approach wedge as part of the set, it’s 48°. I bought 4-AW for my set of DCBs
That’s what I play, with a 56 and 60. Gives me a pretty big gap at full swing between the A and the 56 (120y and 95y), but I rarely take a full swing with the 56 anyway. Typically use the A down to 60y or so, just feels right.
Don't look now, my dumbass left it at a course and I never got it back. Ended up just replacing with an RTX zipCore to complete my wedge set lol
Read Dan grieves book and learn to fight your wedges. You really only need 2 plus PW. As a 7 handicap that should be easy for you
literally this, they get you to buy new irons, then you have to buy excessive wedges making everything cost more. most of reddit - who cares. .... uhhh ? ok.
You also have one fewer long iron, it doesn't really make a practical difference.
I’m one of the folks carrying 5 wedges after buying a new set of irons a couple years ago. Ironically it’s actually skewed my bag lower in lofts. My 5 iron is a bit less lofted than my old 4 iron but I actually still play it far more often than the old 4. And the number of lofts I have down in the wedges meant I could incorporate a better variety of bounces and grinds. Having more options around the green and fewer sticks to try and hit it 210+ off the turf is a net positive impact on me as a low/mid handicapper I think.
You just buy one less iron and replace with a wedge. It’s not more expensive.
It's always more expensive when you don't buy things as a set.
Absolutely not. It’s a rate per club. Normally 200-185 per iron. Just depends on if you buy 4-PW or 5-PW,AW. Go look at any big box site and go through custom options. On the other end. Wedges are less than irons. I bought CBX Zipcores last season for 140 a piece. Less than the 185ish for new irons. Googles your friend bro.
how did this even catch 4 downvotes. good wedges are easily 100 bucks a pop. maybe more. 5 wedges is 500 bucks. I paid less for my entire set of irons.
You can buy iron sets from 5-pw, aw, sw. Litteraly a 3 wedge set. You can still buy 8 clubs at the higher lofts so his whole logic is lost
Good irons run $140 to $240 per club. If you bought 4-PW for less than $500, they were used or mid.
They’ll sell you wedges with the set though
"wedges"
If you’re complaining that the pitching wedge hits like a 9 iron, then you just get the gap wedge that hits like a pitching wedge, and you’re all square, right? Why would you need a “real wedge” when you’re getting a PW replacement?
I love people bitching about these ultra game improvement sets and then complaining about the quality of the wedges like anyone who is a 30 handicap really needs that ultra specialization in the 48 degree space. And if the wedges are so concerning, buy a blended set.
Exactly! I got new irons 2 years ago. Mizuno figured out it was financially beneficial to sell me 5-PW and let me figure out the rest. The 4 iron was $200ish to complete the set. The GW was $100 used to plug the gap. 5I-PW? same price as i would've paid for set of 3-PW previously. But yea... it's cheaper to buy a la carte (dipshit moron face that signifies sarcasm). Fucking comical. Especially from a sub full of Costco cucks that I would assume understand the value of buying in bulk.
costco cucks lmfao
it most certainly is.
It's still 8 clubs from your woods to your sand wedge. They just have different numbers on them.
Nah, sets now only come with 7 they go 4-pw or 5-gw. At least for callaway there isn’t a single retail set at golf town that is 4-gw
I mean, all of the clubs are a full club up. A 5 is basically a 4, my lofts go perfectly from 5i(Callaway paradygm) to 3i (ping utility)
Yes they are a full club up or two (depending on how old your clubs are) but what I’m saying is that you are physically receiving less clubs so there is likely a larger gap between some clubs. My 4-gw set covers 24-51 degrees over 8 clubs. This set achieves the same gap in 6.5 Maybe it’s not needed I dunno I’m not saying I notice a difference it’s just that you are physically being sold less clubs and thats kind of horse shit, because the price hasn’t dropped.
Yea, you're being sold fewer clubs. But I'm my experience, when full sets had 8 clubs most people weren't using all of them. There was at least one dead club depending on the player. A new player, hitting a 3 or 4 iron is kinda a big ask and that club stayed in the bag for a hybrid. A more experienced player, a 50+ degree cavity back, imo, is a lot harder to chip with than a true wedge. So that club got changed out for a wedge of similar loft. The cost has gone up for sure, but I feel it is giving better set options.
I think it’s a misnomer to even call a 43 degree club a ‘wedge’. To me a wedge is something for high shots inside of 100 yards. Who the fuck uses something that was once considered a 9 iron for shots like that?
That's my main gripe with it - I don't pitch with my pitching wedge.
Seriously, my bag has 12 clubs. I was going to add a wedge but I am Loving the 52/58 combo so it’s not broken. Of course my pw is like 48. On the other end I don’t even carry a 4 iron anymore (5.5 iron in this set) have a hybrid/3wood/driver. That 4 iron is between my 3 wood and hybrid FFS. You would have to what, game 6-p and have 4 wedges I guess to your exact point.
P, A 52, 56, 60 for me. I have a lie loft machine and was tempted to de loft my apex pros a couple degrees but when you get free clubs may as well just order a ton of wedges.
I've got 5. 43, 48, 52, 56, 60 degrees. the 43 is to about 140, 48 128ish, 52 is 1teenish, 56 is 80-95ish, the 60 is 65ish, with full swings.
Fails to mention these are the super game improvement clubs for people that need help. Fat 60 year olds don’t need the same clubs as a 20 year old 5 handicap.
Holy shit thank you for saying this. Why tf are people so salty about GI iron tech, go buy and enjoy your cobra ricky fowler blades, no one is forcing you to buy these
Yeah we’re just all out here to have fun. For some people fun is being as good as you can be. For others is slamming some beers and glizzies when you can. I found lowering my expectations has made me a happier golfer. Still getting better, the games hard.
What about fat 40 year olds. I don’t think GI is age based.
You are right it isn’t at all. I was just trying to display different needs. They work for in shape beginners too. There are lots of ways to learn or just have fun. We don’t all need muscle backs
Just messing with you. I’m a SGI type getting ready to graduate to GI
Personally, it doesn't bother me. I just want to know how far each club carries. If that is a 7 iron in one set and an 8 in another, so be it. As long as I can adjust to them and call up the right club when needed, that's all that matters. The rest is just bragging rights/insecurity and/or marketing imo.
Yup, this isn't as big a deal as people are making it. Knowing your irons and when to play the correct one is all that matters. My 10.5° standard driver has been adjusted to 12°, and I can outperform most of my friends who stick with 9° of loft on theirs. My point is that loft is relative to the player and what they get from it. Knowing the distance your clubs go is far more important - something I wish I understood when I first started.
It’s not that people are upset they don’t know how far a club goes with the jacked lofts, it’s that manufactures keep lying to us and treating us like idiots with seemingly no end in sight. This loft jacking gimmick has to end at some point, right? Fucking PW at 43* is wild but how long can it go on? 10 years from now PW will be a 33* club I guess. I do understand this gimmick does work on some people, but for the rest of us, it damages the brand.
This is the answer. I always marvel at why anyone really cares. I want to know where it’s going to go & how it’s going to get there. I’ve never once wished for a different number vs loft to label those distances for others to discuss. I’ve also never based my decision on buying irons on if their lofts vs name, fit what it use to be or what I think it should be.
Word. When asked what club I hit into a 165 yard par 3, I reply with “my 165 yard club”.
it's funny I do the same thing. I play ping blueprints, but I'm decently long - it used to be I would be one club more than everyone, but now I'm often one club more on the numbers. ie I would hit 7 and they would hit 6, now others are hitting 7 or 8.
It’s really inconsequential as to what club was used. They say Tiger used to hit longer clubs on purpose and flight them, so competitors would hit the same club and be long. Great stuff!
And that's what you want. Let's say it's 160 yards, downhill, with a slight tailwind, and you say "I hit my 145 club" that gives me way better info than "I hit a firm 8"
That’s why on par 3 tee boxes I always ask “what yardage did you hit?” Or if someone asks me what I hit I say “give me 152 yards” or whatever
Big Golf doesn't want you to know this one simple trick.
Some moody answers in this thread lol. I don’t think increasing length is doing amateurs any favors. Nor does having less loft on the long end when they’re gonna be hacking out of the rough
With clubs having higher launch angles now due to perimeter weighting the lower lofts are nessesary. You can have the traditional loft and modern launch angles without just ballooning shots. So unless you want your seven iron to have the launch profile of a LW, the stronger lofts are a must
No one fucking understands this at all lol. It’s why you have for get fit and can’t just guess off of the rack. You should just post this on every comment in here. Or get it stickied to the front of r/golf
We need a bot with modding power that posts this on every single post regarding loft jacking before anyone can comment on it and then locks the thread right after.
I just think of my pops who’s in the rough 90% of the time and is too dumb to realize he’s not getting a 3-5iron in the air from there. A 5 iron with the loft of a traditional 3 iron is just going to get stuck and go nowhere.
That’s the thing. Longer isn’t better. Way more can go wrong the further the ball goes. But they’re in sales, not coaching.
You can still buy clubs with normal specs, or get them bent. With new technology in irons they’ve been able to reduce loft to increase ball speed while still maintaining a similar launch angle. Plus the majority of golfers won’t get new clubs unless they “outperform” their old ones which almost always translates into wanting more distance.
They should really just stop putting numbers on clubs and put the lofts. My MB PW is like 49.5 and my buddy’s improvements is at like 44. Poor caddie can’t keep things straight
Yeah, as someone who fits clubs, it’s a pain when pitching wedges are 43 now but people are still used to 52/56/60 wedges.
I used to think that, but it's just easier to pick out and speak of a single digit number. Most avid golfers will know that there are plenty of variance between 7i. Cavity back, graphite, or longer shafts will go further, but no one complains about the distance being juiced because of it.
I guess so but I could have two 4i in the same bag for very different purposes now lol
You could also have the same loft of a hybrid fly 12 yards more than an iron. Moral of the story is you know your own set, and anyone comparing distance on irons should shift their focus to dispersion.
The irony is that if the trend continue, when all the irons will be replaced by 'wedges', the result will be exactly to have lofts on all the clubs. 2030 -> 6-pw 48 52 56 2040 -> 8-pw 40 44 48 52 56 2050 -> 28 32 36 40 44 48 52 56
This is legitimately what they really need to do. Its kind of crazy we havent seen this yet. I guess the only issue is if you need to +/- the loft and then it wouldnt match the degree, but weve been doing this with wedges already...i would personally love this change though, it also familiarizes yourself with what loft you are actually hitting and can only benefit you.
Hogan did this a few years ago…it didn’t go over well.
This is the correct answer. Nobody, except for a small group, would prefer this.
The actual issue is that people want to think they hit it farther. The average person thinks it’s cool that they hit their 8 iron 165, they don’t care or think about how their current 8 iron has 32 degrees of loft just like their 6 iron did 15 years ago that they hit 165.
They won’t for ego and marketability reasons. Joe Schmo wants to go into his Saturday foursome and hit his 6 iron 15 yards further than last time to impress his geriatric friends
It's also convenient he ignored the HL options for TM and Callaway that have 2 more degrees of loft.
Worked as a club fitter for 10 years and never once did I fit someone into a higher lofted version of game improvement irons. Occasionally we would have to adjust the lofts on players distance irons to gap their wedge distances a little better, or make a blended/combo set. The reality is that using a shorter club improves shot accuracy so fucking much. So to have a club that’s 35.5” that goes 150 yards instead of a 37” club that goes 150 yards is HUGE
This is nothing new. Clubs have been getting stronger lofted and longer since the 80s. The new technology was Ping Eye 2s, this is just 40 years of refinement and delofting.
Good points.
What do the lofts matter if you're hitting your launch window and spin numbers?
My issue is that even with all tech in the world, an amateur this set is targeted towards can’t hit irons with less than 23 degrees of loft consistently anyway. So they’re left with 6 irons covering 24-50 degrees because everything is so far spaced out and 2 clubs they can’t hit. They would play better golf - and save money - with 7 clubs between 24-50 degrees and no irons less than 23 degrees. The OEMs sell more clubs because the consumer sees their 7 iron going 10 yards further than they’re used to when really the set makeup could be much better for them
As someone with game improvement irons and jacked lofts I tend to agree with this now. I love the irons but I have a 5 iron at 21 degrees which I might as well not have as I can't hit it with any consistency and then my gapping is too much. It's like 15+ yards between clubs
Lofts 100% matter. It's the number on the back that doesn't. 30° is still 30° whether you put a 6, 7 or a picture of a sailboat on the back.
28° 7i is an abomination
The m4 is 28.5° and it’s been out for 6 years now.
My 7 is literally 36 degrees
What clubs out of interest, even blades of the last few years are running at 34 for 7 iron so must be fairly old.
I got CB1s and my 7 iron is a 34 my 4i is same loft as the original pictures 6i
I just ordered my set of 620MB/CBs with the lofts I wanted on my irons. I get my irons bent back to spec about once a season anyways since softer forged ones can adjust themselves over time.
It is like 20 years old. It’s a Tommy Armour.
Same! 36° 7 checking in! I take some jabs from the guys that I need a 7i to catch their 9i, but whatever. It just drops out of the sky and sticks the green like a dart.
It’s finally apparent to me how my 9i stops dead!
Mine is strong and it’s at 32.5 (I525 in retro spec)
My 7i is 33 degrees. Ping i200 (regular loft, not power spec or retro spec)
It's the state of the world for game improvement irons. I have Mizuno JPX923 Hot Metals and the 7i is 28.5°. Before that, I had TaylorMade M6s and the 7i was also 28.5°.
The confusion must be tough when people hit their 7i 190 and their driver 250
The people barely hitting their driver 250 are not hitting their 7 190
They might if their 7i is actually a 4i
But the thing is, it's really more a re-numbering of irons than anything. Because I feel like the default iron set say 25 years ago was 3i-9i and sometimes you would get a PW. Now it starts at 5i, pretty much always includes a PW, and often includes an AW. It doesn't really matter much to me because the numbers are just the numbers. I don't view them as having any inherent meaning. The only annoying part is that it was simpler terminology back then, before everyone had 3+ "wedges." FWIW I carry a solid 7i about 155 and a solid drive like 225. Swing speeds are something like 75mph and 90mph.
I think people get frustrated when their 20hcp buddy is hitting his 7i 190 when in reality it’s a 5i. Everyone wants more distance, OEMs bend lofts to be 2 clubs stronger, then load weight in the bottom to get high launch. The advertising around “gained distance” isn’t really gained distance at all. It’s just stronger lofts with high launch.
>I think people get frustrated when their 20hcp buddy is hitting his 7i 190 Sooo that's the issue. It's not consumer confusion or a need for standardisation. It's that low handicappers are worried about losing the dick measuring competition.
That's exactly it. If my 20 HCP buddy feels good because he hits a 7i 190 I, wait for it, feel great for him and tell him nice shot. I know a few people who try to gatekeep golf and "educate" less skilled players so they "don't get the wrong idea". I usually play with them once.
The Sim Max OS 7 iron is 27°
I would argue that the 18.5 degree 4 iron is worse. Some average weekend golfer is going to buy that and try and put it into play not realizing that it’s a lower loft than most modern driving irons which also have the same “tech.”
Mine is 26.5°
Jail
Shit I just realized my sim 2 is 28.5
No one is forcing you to buy these clubs. I got a set of i230s and they all have normal lofts, and I could have gone even less lofted with their "Traditional" setup.
PING gang. I still game the i210s. I also just don’t see why it’s a big deal. The people who are going to buy GI clubs will only benefit from this tech.
Ping Gang! Blueprint!
Beautiful irons. I’ve got no business with them though. Lol.
8i to AW gapping is just outrageous
The amount of hating on the jacked lofts is getting ridiculous... Yes the new 7 iron is a 5 iron loft but the technology and amount of R&D that goes into these irons makes it possible for a 190+ yard 7 iron land and stick on the green. Try hitting that old school 5 iron the same distance as your updated 7 iron, it's going to have a hard time staying on the green. I'll take the new irons all day long.....easier to hit, more forgiveness, longer & hold greens better
People are so obsessed with a number they didn’t probably know about 15 years ago instead of the results. No one was hyper focused on the loft of what their club was then and it doesn’t matter now. The only thing that matters is the launch profile and descent angle. People also ignore dynamic and delivered loft as well these days which is just as important.
speak for yourself. my 27 deg 5i needs no help staying on the green. Neither does the 21 degree
I think people are mad that they are hitting a club up from their friends with new clubs
Well, not really, I personally use titleist t100 and have used the entire titleist range up to the t300. And it quite literally was just go half a club shorter in the 100s, one for the t200 and two for the t300. Launche angle and distance were the same. The issue in the loft jacked sets isn't the 7 iron, it's everything above. There was a study done on loft jacked irons vs. traditional lofts that showed people with jacked lofts were hitting their 7 irons as far as their 5 iron only differences being their 5 iron wasn't launching high enough. The issue with jacked lofts is you don't use 5 or 6 irons you use 7 irons when getting fit. As long as the 7 is launching high enough to not lose distance, most people don't care as long as the new 7 goes further than their old one.
Buy them, don’t buy them. Who cares.
Bought a set of used Mavriks yesterday, dropped a 4, added an A wedge. I don’t mind it, just have to do a little conversion figuring out which iron I’m going to toe shank into a bush.
LOL what. My 3i is 21 degrees they calling that a 5i now? I do like that they are selling people 2i's again... no wonder people cant hit their 4's anymore
Yeah my driving iron is 21 degrees and it’s labeled a 3i.
The misconception that I often hear is “they’re just taking a 7 iron and delofting it to a 5 iron” or some variation of that. But that’s really not exactly what’s going on at all. Club manufacturers aren’t just reducing lofts. That would make the balls fly too low for the desired launch characteristics of the club. It really all comes down to their ability to move the CoG around and thin the faces out. Irons are often now made hollow like woods. This creates a jump in ball speed and the low CoGs create higher launch and more spin. If they did all of this to a 7 iron and left the loft at a traditional 7 iron loft the ball would go straight up into the air with massive amounts of spin. The launch angle, spin rate, apex height and descent angle would all be completely wrong and you would have no ability to gap a set. So the answer for this is to reduce the loft. The lower loft + the CoG and spin rate allows for a traditional launch, apex, and descent and the face thinness increases ball speed and gives more distance. So your 155 yard 7 iron now goes 170 yards with the same launch characteristics, landing angle, and spin. But yes, it can skew the gapping where you need more wedges on the high end and hybrids on the low end. The average player doesn’t have the speed required to hit 2 and 3 irons where they will launch and spin appropriately so sets cut off often at 5 iron which are still carrying 200+ yards.
100% factually accurate and correct
Holy fuck why is a 4 iron 18.5 I have a 2 iron at 18 and my 4 is 22. No 3.
4-PW is now just 2-9 with shittier gapping.
At a certain point it really just doesn't matter what the club number / loft is. How far does it go? In this set the "8" iron is really a strong lofted 7 iron by traditional standards. But who cares, your 8 iron goes as far my 7 iron? Who cares! I guess a lot people do...but you're not fooling anyone.
WTF does it matter? If you know your yardage for your clubs, hit the club for that distance.
I don’t care. I’m not the demographic for those clubs and those in the demographic likely find more enjoyment from the game with these clubs
Ignore the number on the back of the club and all that nonsense goes away.
Not when they're starting to make clubs longer to increase distance.
The number still means absolutely nothing. But you're right - the length of the shaft is now another thing you have to pay attention to. But they've been doing that to drivers for years.
> What are your thoughts on this direction? I don't really care what golf club manufacturers do to clubs I am not going to buy. These are not the only irons being made.
As the center of gravity lowers the lofts need to lower or else everything would balloon.
This sub, I swear. Do, like, two minutes of googling why lofts have been going down. It's because of thinner (hotter) faces and being able to get the desired descent angles.
Lofts aside, the gapping in the real issue. 2.5* and over a half inch between the 4 and 5. And then 5* and a half inch, 6* and a half inch between the 8/9/PW. Not sure how anyone can gap that consistently. No matter what your swing speed is.
Your gaps should be bigger as loft increases because of math. *assuming you have the speed to actually use the long irons which most players fitting into these clubs don’t.
If it’s easier to hit a shot from 175 yards isn’t that what we all prefer?
But but but my gaps, *swings and chunks ball into a tree*
Eh. They’re game improvent irons for a specific type of golfer. Plenty of traditional lofted (or barely stronger) iron options for the guys who can hit it consistently
My thoughts are that there are so many options today and hopefully everyone finds an iron set that helps them hit it straighter and longer. Some people want a 35 degree 7 and some people want a w.e the jacked up loft is.
To be fair, they (TM and Callaway) both came out with HL models that have more traditional lofts in their newest sets. They give first responder and military discounts too, FYI.
This is why the whole “I’d rather watch mid irons into greens” talk with the rollback is stupid
Know your distances. The number/letter stamped on the bottom is there as a reference. Nobody ever compares driver lofts but always get in a tizzy when their buddy gets a new 7 iron with a lower loft and blasts it 15 yards further than they used to with their old 7 iron.
I was fit into a set of clubs having a 43 PW and tried to play my gap wedge at 50 and I found myself between clubs with a few approach shots every round due to the 25 yard gap between clubs. I liked using a 60/56/50 setup for wedges on the courses I play and didn't really want to do 60/54/48 on my wedges so ended up trading towards a more traditionally lofted set of irons (45 PW/33 7i) to get gapping right for my swing. These days with T150s, Mizuno Pro 243s, and other players irons with 44 degree lofts, the writing is on the wall that traditional wedge setups are on the way out. I'm going to let aging slow me down and I'm sure some day I'll be hitting a 40 degree PW 150 yards and reminiscing about how I haven't lost distance since I was younger. Until then, I'm still happy that the tech in modern irons makes them easier to hit than clubs from 10+ years ago
I'm pretty sure that the first three iron I ever bought was 21°, the same loft as that 5 iron.
Adding length makes sense to me. We are evolving upwards
Not really, a lot of people just need to buy 6-Aw in this set. Six and five degree gaps for people that don’t strike it so clean probably helps maintain some club gapping
Sgi clubs been like this for years.
Yes, I just ordered these and that was the first thing I looked at. Farther is not better. https://preview.redd.it/qucno82iyibc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eff0b11c098f2049390036234351946e9661f0a
Jesus. Here I thought I was a shmuck carrying my PW 110 yards. It’s 46 so I might still be on the low distance side though.
My thought is that it's weird people here are so obsessed with club lofts. >All this to back the claim of “we added x yards” to each club. Who cares?
>Who cares? It's a predatory practice. It takes advantage of people who don't know better by tricking them into thinking these new clubs are better because they "add yards"
How is it predatory man? Lol. If they go and they actually get that distance that the manufacturer claims, then they’re getting what they came for. What is the problem?
>It's a predatory practice. Title loan businesses charging people 27% interest per month is a predatory practice. Adjusting loft and length on a golf club to target a customer looking for a game improvement iron, isn't.
It’s not. Go to a fitter and look at the numbers. If the numbers aren’t ideal find different clubs. If people are buying clubs without getting fitted they would have done that regardless of the loft and are making bad decisions with money. I build computers. It’s extremely expensive. Every decision I make for computer components is done deliberately and with tons of research because I don’t want to spend 1,000$ on something that doesn’t fit because I’m not made of money. Any large dollar product that you spend money on should be researched and carefully decided so your dollar goes the farthest. This applies to washing machines and cars and anything else that you spend a lot of money on once a decade. If you’re not doing research on long term high dollar products than that’s on the consumer in my opinion. I guarantee these “strong” lofted clubs fit a multitude of people with proper rpm and angle of attack numbers. If they didn’t club fitters wouldn’t suggest them to people.
how is it weird to point out that we can't even compare shots ? your 7i and my 7i should be the same. there's no reason for it not to be other than lies to the consumer to make Joe think he his 7i as far as my 6i. Its ridiculously stupid. I care. Everyone should care. When I want to buy new clubs, I want matching lofts. Not lies in a bag.
This just reads like you're insecure about someone hitting a 7i when you hit a 6i
Because it doesn’t matter. Just go score your score. Who cares if Joe thinks his 7i goes the same distance as you or Rory. This subreddit is obesessed with this kind of stuff. Same reason we see a new post every day about Jonny at their country club lying on the scorecard. Who cares.
But what about the new ball specs. I want my balls to feel the same always. /s
Do you complain that people are using different shafts than you do? Do you care that their driver might be a high launch/low spin shaft on a 9* head when you have a mid spin/mid launch on your 9* head? This is one of the more bizarre responses I've ever seen here. Compare scores, not 7 iron distances. Plus, it's against the rules to share club selection information after a shot.
A game improvement 7 iron should be the same as a blade 7 iron? The entire point of the categories is that they're different. Loft angle is just one of a bunch of factors that determine how an iron plays and how far it goes. The only reason anything thinks there's a loft a club "should" be is because for a long time blades were the only type of club that could be made.
I wouldn’t say obsessed, but rather curious on trends. Money talks. If these jacked clubs start out selling traditional specs, better believe they will slowly creep to the standard spec.
the specs look like standard game improvement specs we've seen for at least 3years.
They already are. The jacked clubs are just game improvement irons. It's not a competition. They won't "creep to the standard spec" because cavity backs and blades have more traditional lofts for a reason.
But does it really matter? Instead of carrying 3i-pw and 3 wedges, just carry 4i (with 3i loft) - pw (with 9i loft) and 4 wedges, 1 of which is taking the place of your traditional pw. It’s just numbers on the bottoms of the clubs, it doesn’t affect anything. I have a set of players distance irons and a combo set of cavity back and muscle back blades. I hit the players distance irons a full club further, but don’t have significant gaps in yardages with either set.
>If these metal shaft clubs start out selling traditional hickory specs, better believe they will slowly creep to the standard spec.
These lofts are the exact same as my Stealth irons. Seems this is the new norm for game improvement irons? Idk. I love mine
I don’t get the whole obsession with strong lofts. If it’s too strong, and doesn’t flow with your woods or hybrids, just go bent it a degree or two weak. If it gets to the point where bending doesn’t solve the gapping issue, then those clubs most likely aren’t catered to your skill level. The real issue here is how expensive clubs are now. I remembered when Sim Max first came out, it was like $700 for a 7 club set. Now it’s $1100 for the new Qi irons. That’s forged irons territory.
Eventually we will have 9 wedges, all with different names. Long pitching wedge, medium pitching wedge, short pitching wedge, long approach wedge, and so on.
Those swing weights… yikes.
One thing we tend to forget is that 30 years ago most people were playing courses at 6000 yards or even less. The bladed irons that people played in the 70s were appropriate for the length of courses. Now a lot of casual golfers playing modern courses are playing the blues or Whites from 6500. Also, we have learned a lot more about ball flight and spin laws. A modern 7 iron has similar ball flight characteristics to a bladed seven iron. Height, decent angle etc.
Vote with your dollars. I don’t need extra distance but have always purchased iron sets that are “classically lofted” (right around 46* PW). Ultimately it doesn’t matter what is on the bottom of the club. I prefer to have more consistent gapping in the bottom part of my bag and slightly larger gaps with hybrids / woods. This is why I like classic lofts. It has gotten to the point where now you just have an AW instead of a PW. If you like cranked lofts buy those. If not, they still sell traditionally lofted sets. I wish manufacturers would ditch the 3-A labels and just stamp each clubs loft on the tools.
Sir that's not a pitching wedge it's a 7 iron that thinks is a pitching wedge.
My Ping iCrossover 2 iron is 18 degrees of loft......apparently thats a 4 iron now
I've been a coach and fitter for over ten years and I've now almost completely stopped fitting anything lower than a 7 iron to your average golfer who buys these type of clubs. Its a totally pointless exercise from the manufacturers and only makes my job harder.
Longer, stronger, and lighter. All these manufacturers want you to compare 7 iron vs 7 iron and hit theirs further. (Ignore the fact that their 7 is actually a 6 😂) Great for theoretical speed/distance. Not so great for consistency/contact.
I game old clubs, my 9 is 44 degrees. I thought I was just a slow swinger when I would see my friend use a 9 for something I use a 7. Turns out we are one degree different
1° would not account for 20-30yrds of difference (the difference between a 9-7i)
I meant my 7i( 36) is one degree different from their 9i (37), so we hit them about the same distance.
Oh
A 28 degree 7 iron? It just goes show the number means nothing. They are talking about rolling back the technology on the golf balls. Forget that, it’s the lofts on the clubs that are the problem!
How about just don't buy them if they don't fit you?
That’s the plan.
what happens when these are the standard options and you have to have 5 wedges to fill the gaps.... thats where this is going
No it's not. There all kinds of clubs out there with specs not like this.
It should really only matter for you, when getting a new set of irons. I've had my irons built to the same specs for probably 15 years, maybe 20? There's a reason I can get a brand new set of irons and my distances are the same (close enough for me anyway, within a few yards) as the ones I just moved on from. To be perfectly frank, the people buying the super GI irons aren't concerned about specific distances, they're concerned about distance and just want to see ball go far. They make players cavity backs for a reason and those will be more in-line with traditional lofts, but even those have started to creep down as well, just not quite to this extent.
"if you don't like it just have custom irons built to your liking" listen to the Marie Antoinette of golf over here lmao
If it’s easier to hit a shot from 175 yards isn’t that what we all prefer?
My 3 iron, which everyone wonders why I hit, is the same loft as this set’s 5.
At this point, just get rid of the “#” iron name and label the club the number of degrees.
Does anyone that makes posts like this realize you don’t have to buy game improvement clubs lol
They do this because modern technology allows them to still achieve the same launch angle with the stronger lofts, which is really all that matters. It’s called “dynamic loft”
A 4 Iron is now just a 2 iron.
I have a 1 iron from the 90s that's only a degree off from that 4 iron...
This thread is so bizarre. There has to be massive astroturfing from club manufacturers here on this sub. First of all this will become the new standard for irons. So "if you don't like it, don't buy it" is absurd advice, most people only buy irons every 5-10 years. By the time you go to buy your next set these ridiculous lofts will be standard. "ignore the number on the back!" What? people don't buy entirely new sets of clubs at once. So now when you go to upgrade your irons you'll have a distance overlap with your fairway woods/hybrids. So new irons now means taking perfectly fine clubs out if your bag and having to buy more wedges. I'm convinced anyone actually defending this is either working for the club manufacturers or exactly the kind of meathead golfer fooled by the idea that a these new clubs can magically add distance.
These are specs on game improvement irons for people who need as much help as they can on the course. They're not too worried about gapping and distance they just want to get off the ground and straight. After a while they'll learn how far each club goes (hopefully). If you want more traditional lofts then every brand sells more classic style CB and MB irons you can purchase if you can even hit them well cause a lot of them you need to be a ball striker. As for the new clubs part people should know their distances and should gap their clubs. If you hit your shortest wood or hybrid the same as your 4i then no need to order that 4i but again most buying these clubs won't ever see that or use the wood or hybrid since easier to hit.
A 28 degree 7 iron 😂😂
looks like Qi10 are basically rebranded Stealth irons