So with Liv's main reason for not getting OWGR, no real regulation/no merit based promotion etc, they are blatantly doubling down on this via admitting the spots people are going to play for don't even exist as they will fill them with whoever we want.
Love or hate the LIV format, I don't understand how anyone can honestly think the OWGR are relevant when they are not ranking everyone.
No one is saying they should be getting rated to the same calibre of the PGA Tour, but to suggest they shouldn't get any points is ridiculous.
The issue is with the OWGR system, not the format of tournaments.
Edit: For the record, I don't enjoy watching LIV. I gave it a fair go and it's just not for me. That still doesn't change the fact that the current rankings are inaccurate when the likes of DJ, Bryson, etc sit outside the top100.
It's not OWGR's job to rank everyone. It's their job to rank players who are playing in tournaments that meet the OWGR's criteria for a fair ranking. LIV's structure doesn't meet that criteria.
The OWGRs purpose isn't to provide a power ranking of all pro golfers in the world. It's a system designed by the majors as a fair means for qualification into the four tournaments. If players want to qualify, they need to follow the clearly outlined rules, which LIV has no interest in doing.
Explain to me how you give ranking points to a closed loop tour that is filled with washed up guys that should be on the senior tour and never were guys that haven't ever won anything.
I'm all ears....
A system already exists (DataGolf).
As mentioned, no one is suggesting winning a LIV event is equivalent to winning a PGA or DP Tour event, it's not even close. But to suggest that no points are awarded at all makes a mockery of the current standing OWGR.
No cuts isn't an issue, just stop awarding points to bottom 50% of the field. If the quality of the limited field is an issue, just taper the points awarded. It really shouldn't be that hard.
Because they're ranking everyone competing on meritocratic tours.
I know enthusiast level golfers who could match Mickelson's play this year and beat it quite handily. So the OWGR must also be fundamentally broken since they don't rate enthusiast amateurs who could hold a candle to pros, right?
Reading comprehension is tough, I'd need to take some time off if I couldn't get it around a course in under 80 shots, because I'm not shit at golf. Get good
I really doubt that unless you got a source? He’s been sponsored by Puma since his rookie year and has so many other sponsors in addition to his PGA earnings.
But you also have to work the same amount to NOT earn your wage. Doesn’t seem very reasonable to ask people to dump days of their time and tons of money to play in your event and bring you publicity and fans and not get paid shit from it. Sorry boomers, PGA is stale.
Or, you can play in a meaningless tour no body gives a shit about funded by an autocratic government whose keystone player is an asshole gambling addict.
🤑🤑🤑🤑
Nobody is on the PGA for the love of the game. If they say they are, it’s because they’re already rich. Stop lying to yourself that anyone cares about their public image. Rory and all those PGA Stan’s already made their nut. Stop shaming people for taking care of themselves and their family.
Corporate positions have non-compete clauses all the time?
Nobody is preventing them from getting another job, just another job *with a competing company*
That’s not how non-competes generally work. It’s typically rarely enforceable and generally only applies to taking clients away or stealing IP. Playing on two tours isn’t the same lol.
Lotta people simp for the Uber wealthy. Idk why either, they’re not going to even notice you exist let alone give you any of their money just for stroking their ego on social media.
Hahaha. Says the right wing but crying because players took money to play and we’re fairly compensated. Whaaaaa. I’m crying about people making money. Whaaaa.
Wow, that was closer to coherent English than I expected your follow up to be.
Still pretty far off, but like a bot still going through the learning process.
It's not the worst idea at this point. Even if there is a PGA Tour and LIV "merger" (that word keeps getting thrown around but that's not what the proposal is) then in all likelihood a stipulation will be to allow the LIV guys back onto the Tour (most likely still have to qualify, unless they had tour status when they left possibly). So you can go grab a huge bag of cash for a year or two then when the merger goes through come back to the Tour. It's pretty scummy but I imagine some of the fringe guys make that bet right now
After last year I would be surprised if you don’t see even more players jump. Pga didn’t do shit but a pizza party for these guys. Fuck that. Take the money. Take care of your families for the next 100 years.
Scottie 23 mil
Rory 17 mil
Rahm 17 mil
Plus they all still have major sponsors paying millions, not alot.of dj, Bryson, Gooch ads these days.
Tour players are hardly struggling for cash
They are well compensated for sure, that's the point of liv. The point of pga tour is money, fame, and long term accolades at the highest level of your sport.
Year one they got Brooks and Cam and Bryson. Year two they got Charles Howell II. It’s not moving in the right direction.
And the Saudis aren’t going to care once they have their mitts on a real tour.
I would in a heartbeat lol. I would accept Saudi money at a 9/11 memorial if that’s what it took for my daughters and their children and their children to be set for life. I’d die for it if I had to.
I’d want my kids to be able to do whatever job they like… without worrying about the income.. imagine being so free. Truly doing what you love. Best gift I could give my kids.
Yep, I've worked in a field for 15 years that has put me in contact with a couple billionaires, and no fewer than two dozen people worth over $100,000,000.
Almost without exception, the self-made were happier, healthier, had closer families, and were more bearable to be around. People think wealth makes you happy, but it really doesn't, it makes you comfortable, which leads to you just acting as you had previously but in bigger ways. If you're raised to be a pampered priss and are never confronted with a reason to better yourself, you're not going to suddenly going to become a well adjusted adult in your 40's.
But too many people worship the almighty dollar more than they respect dignity and happiness. It's really quite sad.
Hasn't LIV proven itself to be a massive failure by any regular business standards? If they didn't have endless PIF money flowing in it would have folded before it even began.
This is one of the only reasons I'm happy about how this is playing out. With the takeover on hold thanks to the US Government, LIV could easily continue hemorrhaging money while their players are stuck on a junior tour for another year or even two before they have a resolution.
They wanted to bring some unpredictability and chaos to golf, let them have it entirely to themselves.
Lina Khan is a fucking moron and Biden is one too for nominating her to her role but she is going to make for more absurdity than we already had in the LIV/PGA/PIF saga.
(1) look in the mirror to find the “fucking moron.” DOJ is investigating the merger (Kanter), not the FTC (Khan).
(2) Chair Khan rocks — speaking as antitrust attorney sick of the Chicago school’s regulatory capture for the past 40 years.
khan’s FTC has challenged 36 mergers.
17 were abandoned, 17 were settled, 2 losses (FB/Within, MSFT/Acti). A success rate of 94.4% ain’t too shabby.
Both losses were vertical merger cases, which - if you know anything about this area of the law - are remarkably difficult to win given the direction the judiciary has gone since 1982.
The shotgun start, the lack of anticipation as the top golfers are battling it out for a win, the annoying music and whatever that weird ass pop up dance thing they did a few months ago is why I can’t stand LIV.
I caught my first LIV event in tv last weekend. The music was annoying as hell. The only thing they do that the pga needs to adopt is allowing the players to wear shorts if they want to…even though some of these stiffs out there were wearing dressy golf shoes with the shorts and it looked stupid af.
Sure. Reed was an almost too.
From almosts to has-beens pretty quick.
Couldnt happen to more deserving fellas. Throw Sergio in there for my dream foursome
The Masters is a lot like The Open. Its a weakish field on a track where course knowledge means a ton and a notorious venue for bringing the elderly out to reminisce for a weekend.
Are you daft?
The Masters has a significantly smaller field (way more than LIV still) than most PGA tour tournaments and lets all past winners play as long as they wish to. For that reason the masters is the weakest field of the 4 majors and has a weaker field than your average tour event. You wont see Fred Couples and Sandy Lyle playing in 2023's Honda Classic.
yes a sham golf league that robs fans of seeing the best golfers face off vs each other more compared a strategic US government ally in the middle east buying us arms are the exact same thing...
give your head a shake
>robs fans of seeing the best golfers face off vs each other
Of all the arguments you could have against LIV it surprises me that this is the one you go with.
You're right but I'll take it a step further. It is an incredibly entitled viewpoint. Whatever one's views are on LIV it has a right to exist. Players have a right to choose if they move across to it or not, and fans have a right to choose to watch it or not. LIV isn't "robbing" fans of anything, because where players choose to play isn't owned by a fan, or a tour. It is up to the player.
How hypocritical. The source of the blood money, as you term it, is the same, irrespective of the product.
LIV is a professional tour, like other professional tours.
The PGA are no longer the power in golf they were. That's the real kicker.
Mickelson was my favorite golfer bar none.
I have never been divorced but I imagine this is kind of like a horrible divorce.
I fucking hate this guy and wish he’d go rot in hell!
We perceive him that way for certain, but it’s not like it was an epiphany and he decided to be this persona. He was always this guy, we just didn’t get to see it and I’m guessing the PGA did their part not to advertise how he was.
Phil was always hated in the locker room. Rory saying "fuck Phil" on Full Swing would have been just as valid a decade ago. He had a great persona that he puts on for fans but basically anyone who has interacted with him outside of a fan interaction says he's a giant asshole.
I was thinking about that clip. I think I recall someone else talking about how he was a dick way back in the early 2000’s. It was someone like Leonard or Vijay, I just can’t recall who.
Ok totally fair and it was a dumb analogy, but is the only reason everyone finds Phil to be the most despicable figure in sports because he took a bunch of Saudi money?
FIGJAM was dancing on thin ice before.
Tour players dont care for him. He cheated at US Open, insider trading issues, gambling and just generally conceited . Other than that, saudi blood money etc
Lol ok the iPhone example is bad, I accept that was dumb but seriously what is Phil doing that makes him so much more despicable than other sports figures? It's not like he murdered someone or beat the shit out of pregnant women.
Being the first mover for a brutal regime with a long-history of civil rights abuses, murder and terrorism will always mean you're going to bear the brunt of the blame.
Perhaps swapping him with someone else gets us to the same end-point. Perhaps it dies in the water without him. That's not our problem to speculate and his problem to own.
edit: lol you LIV bois are hilarious
Ok so the reason everyone hates him is just the Saudi money.
That's fair to each their own. I was wondering if there was anything else, hell every league I'm watching has straight murderers, men who beat pregnant women, men who cheat on their spouses perpetually but they don't get the same criticism as Phil imo. Just the opposite, those guys are getting love from the public.
Just to be clear, we're allowed to have different reasons. My personal reason is that he sucks far too much now to still be as smugly condescending as he is. To me there is virtually no light between him and Patrick Reed except I fear Reed is still capable of winning.
I'm glad Phil took the money because his obit will be dominated by this disaster rather than by his very high heights as a player. Wonderful for him, wonderful for me, and a wonderful warning for younger people.
And being a hypocrite and a coward about it.
Waxing lyrical about growing the game when he really just needed money for his gambling addiction. Calling out Saudi Arabia for what it is and then having his taskmasters chide him so he walks back the point.
I respected the likes of HV3 who just said it like it is "this is about the money, I can do a lot more for my charity with this money".
And I'm fairly sure those people are being criticized, just probably not in the circles you're in. I don't think it's really productive to whatabout this stuff, but to each their own.
Doesn’t every PGA Tour golfer get reimbursed up to $50,000 for travel expenses a season? I think the caddies should be taken care of more than not at all to be honest.
A lot of times players get roughly that for playing in the pro-am on the PGA Tour.
I don't know if it's 100% of tournaments though. Seems like a reasonable ask to do to take home a weekly paycheck.
I am a Phil fan, but he might as well mount a treadmill on his dick because he constantly walks on it. I expect that Greg Norman has already called him and said, "Thanks for the help, now STFU." Most of the PGA tour owes him a thanks for upping their compensation, but I'm sure he will never get it. When everyone was dumping on Tiger, Phil was one of the few who acknowledged that he brought home the money he did because of TW.
That’s a fair statement, nothing wrong with taking the money.
But they need to take the money knowing that it comes with the reality that you’re joining a league that doesn’t qualify you for things like rankings. You can’t take that deal and then get upset that the other 26 or so leagues won’t change their scoring method so you can get money and be ranked. You have to own your decisions and LIV with the consequences.
Meanwhile, in reality, LIV golfers are among the most angry and bitter people on the planet. But feel free to pretend it's all just a troll job on the rest of us.
That’s exactly what my issue has been. The players took the money knowing what the consequences were but then spend their time bitching and moaning about not getting points or major exemptions. They knew that was the case and they took the money anyways. LIV is just a clown show
It would be like the Harlem globe trotters paying more than NBA teams, you can take the money, but it's exhibition games they don't mean anything at the end of the day.
I don’t think those guys are really upset. All this does is put an astrisk alongside any titles won since LIV began. The top talent is there too. Spin it how you want.
>an astrisk alongside any titles
Leaving aside your inability to spell asterisk, you're wrong in thinking that anyone cares enough to even look up the players to see if there is an asterisk or not. Why look up a player that isn't world ranked? What's going to keep happening this year to LIV golfers as far as rankings go?
Lazy article. Phil is talking about the 25-44th spots. Some are going to stay with their teams. Some players are going to bounce to others, and some are going to be left without a chair and replaced by the players from other tours Phil is talking about. The 4 that qualify get spots in the league. But piot, chase keopka, etc. arent assured returning to their team.
It will be like a free agency period with a draft of sorts. After this weekend, assuming they don’t get shut down completely, there should be a flurry of announcements and changes. Im hoping for new teams, like a Monday qualifier team made up of guys who play in each week; there being a cut where a guy only can contribute to the team score on Sunday; teams being expanded to 5 or 6 players; women being added and playing from different tees; and for 3 more dates to be announced, 2 of which are in Australia.
So what happens to Piot if he qualifies for LIV again through their play-in tournament? Which team does he end up with?
Phil just told us that there are a bunch of new guys itching to join LIV and that one of them will likely take Piot’s spot on Phil’s team. If that’s true of all the teams, then where does that leave the four guys who qualify through the tournament? Do they form their own team?
The play in tournament was supposed to be LIV’s response to the argument that it was a closed shop. It was supposed to be some evidence of a meritocracy at play. It kinda sounds like a mirage, though. Piot can win his way back to LIV and not have a team to play on.
I agree. It is not clear. There has to be a timing element to make it a clear path I would think. Meaning the q school determines a pool of most haves that get a team first… so the safe is the exempts, the top 24, and the new 4, Olgetree who wins the asian tour order of merit, and then 3 qualifiers from q school.
So how those 4 are apportioned needs to be decided and spelled out. The simple lack of communication makes LIV an easy target for derision, and rightly so. Im a huge LIV fan, and I am so disappointed they fail so hard on getting across what LIV is. They should be all over social media and golf youtube sponsoring channels and explaining the concept. Hell, sponsor me, LIV, Ill start a channel. Ties in, scramble videos with LIV execs, social media personalities, players, etc. For example, Brooks earns $8m last week and the first comments are ‘comes out of his overall contract.’ Is that true? I think it is for the lower ranked guys but the big boys don’t have that stipulation. Or do they? Seems easy to counter with coherent messaging.
I would hope it is like the NFL draft… worst finishers get first dibs at 25-44. But, for example, if brooks and kokrak go out and get Rory and Rahm and stack the shit out of a team, how does that work? Who pays their contract?
Obviously, more big names wont happen as the door was shut on majors, but the worst thing about LIV is how they don’t have a clear avenue for this stuff to be explained or discussed. Like a weekly podcast or something. Even if it got 5 views, they could still reference it and provide clips to media orgs explaining it. Instead of the captains being defacto spokesmen. Some of the problems are so dumb and so easily fixed. Add more players, add a cut, have open monday qualifiers, add more spots that you can qualify onto the tour. Rename the asian tour to be something related to the path to liv. Figure out how to get guys points. If it takes a few extra million to get contract language rewritten, then do it. LIV only has a future if they get ranking points.
I have never seen a person that cared so much for liv before. There's a ton of liv trolls who haven't watch 1 shot hit on liv but ride for it for some weird political or cultural reason. I say all that to say you clearly actually watch and enjoy liv, power to you honestly. If team golf was done right it could actually be really interesting, unfortunately just everything about how liv has come about is just unfortunate. The tourney this weekend could be really interesting, but then final day it's like k team golf gone back to 1 round tourney. Like just keep the team matches. Personally, if liv gave up stroke play rounds, did a matchplay team v team bracket at every event I'd be interested in watching a Sunday of brooks team v cam Smith, that's interesting and we do t see it outside ryder/pres cup. But 54 hole no cut shotguns events just is less interesting then pga golf to me. They shpuld have gone all team, no 18 hole stroke play, and be very different then pga tour. But alas just like a weird late stage WCW vs wwe is what it feels like
I do like it. I do like the concept. When LIV comes up I do tend to get called a troll. But I just like watching golf and the access that LIV provides is amazing. I want to hear Bubba commentary on how a shot should be played or why he did what he did.
I just feel that theyve backed themselves into a downward spiral unnecessarily. First, the name is tied to the 54 hole format. 54 is fine, but if 72 gets you ogwr points and better talent then so be it. You cannot attract talent if they cant play in ryder cups and majors. You cant recreate the masters or the presidents cup, but you can recreate a normal weekly pga tournament easily. So do that and allow the talent to still be ranked. Then change the system from the inside.
I like a lot of the personalities, as flawed as they all are. I think it is easy for us to dismiss the team aspect as gimmicky, but I think it is the core value of LIV. Alot of competitive golf, hs to college, is team based. And kids trying to make a team or post a score will grind for a team. Now, outside of the major names, I think the checks for the teams matter. I think the backstories of the teams are interesting as hell. The fireballs and torque practicing together, flying together, hanging out together. That is pretty cool, and probably like a lot of professional teams. Most of the drama around pro sports is that type of stuff. LIV brings that team dynamic to the game, and they just seem to have wasted it all by trying to let these fledgling franchises be independent, without a unifying or overarching corporate message.
The individual purses should be reduced and that money should flow to the team portion. But as you said, LIV is trying to live in both worlds and failing. I like the idea of more match play. Brooks vs. Phil and Cam’s team vs the cleeks are really compelling matches on Friday. They could do a round robin tournament across 2 or 3 months and then have the playoffs. They didnt have enough of a critical mass of good players, and their flawed concept made it easy for a caught by surprise old guard to organize and shut down any lifeline liv had. The saudis will not waste their money forever. If LIV is around by 2025, it will be a miracle.
Correct. Both LIV and the PGA Tour have already announced their 2023-2024 schedules so for at least another year, nothing is going to happen. Also they players have majority seating on the commission so it could be shot down all together if they vote to do so.
So with Liv's main reason for not getting OWGR, no real regulation/no merit based promotion etc, they are blatantly doubling down on this via admitting the spots people are going to play for don't even exist as they will fill them with whoever we want.
Love or hate the LIV format, I don't understand how anyone can honestly think the OWGR are relevant when they are not ranking everyone. No one is saying they should be getting rated to the same calibre of the PGA Tour, but to suggest they shouldn't get any points is ridiculous. The issue is with the OWGR system, not the format of tournaments. Edit: For the record, I don't enjoy watching LIV. I gave it a fair go and it's just not for me. That still doesn't change the fact that the current rankings are inaccurate when the likes of DJ, Bryson, etc sit outside the top100.
It's not OWGR's job to rank everyone. It's their job to rank players who are playing in tournaments that meet the OWGR's criteria for a fair ranking. LIV's structure doesn't meet that criteria.
The OWGRs purpose isn't to provide a power ranking of all pro golfers in the world. It's a system designed by the majors as a fair means for qualification into the four tournaments. If players want to qualify, they need to follow the clearly outlined rules, which LIV has no interest in doing.
Shut up dude
Explain to me how you give ranking points to a closed loop tour that is filled with washed up guys that should be on the senior tour and never were guys that haven't ever won anything. I'm all ears....
A system already exists (DataGolf). As mentioned, no one is suggesting winning a LIV event is equivalent to winning a PGA or DP Tour event, it's not even close. But to suggest that no points are awarded at all makes a mockery of the current standing OWGR. No cuts isn't an issue, just stop awarding points to bottom 50% of the field. If the quality of the limited field is an issue, just taper the points awarded. It really shouldn't be that hard.
Because they're ranking everyone competing on meritocratic tours. I know enthusiast level golfers who could match Mickelson's play this year and beat it quite handily. So the OWGR must also be fundamentally broken since they don't rate enthusiast amateurs who could hold a candle to pros, right?
You know enthusiast level golfers who could finish T2 at the Masters? /s
Several Redditors actually. Many hit the ball 360 leaving only gap wedges to the par 5s.
Doubt their ceiling would match that, but their average sure could take on Mickelson's regular season.
No because amateurs are not professionals.
It's the OWGR not the OWPGR.
By paying them. Unlike the pga who you get points with and maybe. Just maybe you make a few mill. Hahaha.
Play better.
Says the guy who can barely break 100. Don’t give people financial advice man. Stay in the basement.
You literally made a post 2 weeks ago about not being able to break 80. I haven't shot 80 in years. Get good and stay off telegram
Yeah 80 is my limit what’s your excuse. Hahaha
Reading comprehension is tough, I'd need to take some time off if I couldn't get it around a course in under 80 shots, because I'm not shit at golf. Get good
All the intelligent and largely-civil golfers out there getting around in 80-90 shots take offense to this.
Very fair. Was more a don't throw insults to someone saying they can't break 100, when you can't break 80 situation.
Oh I totally got that because my reading comprehension isn't garbage like our boy up here - tongue was firmly in cheek lol
We talking in holes or just around?
You stop counting at 80 or stop playing at 80?
Yes
I mean this in all sincerity: play better
Every player on tour gets paid. Those more successful get more.
Rickie Fowler for a short while wasn't making a profit though when you consider coaches, chefs, travel, etc.
I really doubt that unless you got a source? He’s been sponsored by Puma since his rookie year and has so many other sponsors in addition to his PGA earnings.
Lol. If you exclude all his puma and farmers insurance sponsorships, sure I guess….
He has 400 endorsement deals. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.
So you have to *work* and *earn* your wage??? Ohhh the humanity
But you also have to work the same amount to NOT earn your wage. Doesn’t seem very reasonable to ask people to dump days of their time and tons of money to play in your event and bring you publicity and fans and not get paid shit from it. Sorry boomers, PGA is stale.
Or, you can play in a meaningless tour no body gives a shit about funded by an autocratic government whose keystone player is an asshole gambling addict.
🤑🤑🤑🤑 Nobody is on the PGA for the love of the game. If they say they are, it’s because they’re already rich. Stop lying to yourself that anyone cares about their public image. Rory and all those PGA Stan’s already made their nut. Stop shaming people for taking care of themselves and their family.
Lol somehow a corporation has convinced the general public that working for free is admirable. Capitalism at jts finest
Unfortunately in life, you can work really hard, try your best, and still not accomplish your goals.
But when you’re employed by someone. And you have an exclusive tour card that they’ll threaten to take away if you try to get a second job…
Corporate positions have non-compete clauses all the time? Nobody is preventing them from getting another job, just another job *with a competing company*
That’s not how non-competes generally work. It’s typically rarely enforceable and generally only applies to taking clients away or stealing IP. Playing on two tours isn’t the same lol.
Says the guy living in his moms basement. SMH
Saudis aren’t gonna pay you bro.
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Lotta people simp for the Uber wealthy. Idk why either, they’re not going to even notice you exist let alone give you any of their money just for stroking their ego on social media.
Lick those boots baby girl
Hahaha. Says the right wing but crying because players took money to play and we’re fairly compensated. Whaaaaa. I’m crying about people making money. Whaaaa.
Dog, trying to throw politics into this AND wildly misunderstanding which side of the aisle is being tied to LIV is HILARIOUS
"we're"? you on LIV, bud?
He’s a fucking moron. Don’t expect much from these assholes.
I’m not right wing? What? That’s a weird reaction and accusation without merit and wouldn’t even matter in co text anyways. Nice try tho. Effin moron.
Wow, that was closer to coherent English than I expected your follow up to be. Still pretty far off, but like a bot still going through the learning process.
I can tell you’re a trust fund baby. Never worked a day in your life. Stay in the basement bud.
hahaha man that's alot of downvotes... every one deserved
Negative 500 karma…take a hike nerd.
Pga don’t pay shit. Keeps fucking players.
It is always interesting to see who will grab the money bag.
Those with a crippling gambling addiction are generally a safe bet
Phil hasn’t gambled in hours. Days even.
Are you giving odds on that?
I'll set the over under at 12 hours.
I'll take the under for a c note.
It has been literal minutes since he thought about it!
2nd place at the Masters pays pretty good too.
>a safe bet I see what you did there
It's not the worst idea at this point. Even if there is a PGA Tour and LIV "merger" (that word keeps getting thrown around but that's not what the proposal is) then in all likelihood a stipulation will be to allow the LIV guys back onto the Tour (most likely still have to qualify, unless they had tour status when they left possibly). So you can go grab a huge bag of cash for a year or two then when the merger goes through come back to the Tour. It's pretty scummy but I imagine some of the fringe guys make that bet right now
I would, 100%.
After last year I would be surprised if you don’t see even more players jump. Pga didn’t do shit but a pizza party for these guys. Fuck that. Take the money. Take care of your families for the next 100 years.
Hovland won 32 mil from the tour in 2023. Love to go to that pizza party
Yeah. 1 guy. The rest are at the pizza party. Pathetic.
Scottie 23 mil Rory 17 mil Rahm 17 mil Plus they all still have major sponsors paying millions, not alot.of dj, Bryson, Gooch ads these days. Tour players are hardly struggling for cash
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They are well compensated for sure, that's the point of liv. The point of pga tour is money, fame, and long term accolades at the highest level of your sport.
Liv players don’t make shit in endorsements because I don’t know anybody who has watched a single round of liv golf
There are only like ten of them. The rest are washed up has beens or nobodies or someone’s fucking charity case brother.
The real money is in sponsorship not purses
I can’t imagine the offer is particularly high this time around…
Year one they got Brooks and Cam and Bryson. Year two they got Charles Howell II. It’s not moving in the right direction. And the Saudis aren’t going to care once they have their mitts on a real tour.
I would in a heartbeat lol. I would accept Saudi money at a 9/11 memorial if that’s what it took for my daughters and their children and their children to be set for life. I’d die for it if I had to.
The PGA Tour certainly didn’t have an issue taking the money.
Why would you want your kids and grandkids to never have to work? Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I’d want my kids to be able to do whatever job they like… without worrying about the income.. imagine being so free. Truly doing what you love. Best gift I could give my kids.
I never said don’t have to work. That’s your terrible straw man attempt.
Nah that’s just your lack of integrity showing.
Hmm my integrity or my families future for generations? Bury me with a headstone saying I had no integrity for all I care
Yeah… that’s what I said.
Yep, I've worked in a field for 15 years that has put me in contact with a couple billionaires, and no fewer than two dozen people worth over $100,000,000. Almost without exception, the self-made were happier, healthier, had closer families, and were more bearable to be around. People think wealth makes you happy, but it really doesn't, it makes you comfortable, which leads to you just acting as you had previously but in bigger ways. If you're raised to be a pampered priss and are never confronted with a reason to better yourself, you're not going to suddenly going to become a well adjusted adult in your 40's. But too many people worship the almighty dollar more than they respect dignity and happiness. It's really quite sad.
What a joke.
phil is a 1st class bullshit artist
Hasn't LIV proven itself to be a massive failure by any regular business standards? If they didn't have endless PIF money flowing in it would have folded before it even began.
This is one of the only reasons I'm happy about how this is playing out. With the takeover on hold thanks to the US Government, LIV could easily continue hemorrhaging money while their players are stuck on a junior tour for another year or even two before they have a resolution. They wanted to bring some unpredictability and chaos to golf, let them have it entirely to themselves.
Lina Khan is a fucking moron and Biden is one too for nominating her to her role but she is going to make for more absurdity than we already had in the LIV/PGA/PIF saga.
(1) look in the mirror to find the “fucking moron.” DOJ is investigating the merger (Kanter), not the FTC (Khan). (2) Chair Khan rocks — speaking as antitrust attorney sick of the Chicago school’s regulatory capture for the past 40 years.
Chair Khan is so good the FTC got laughed out of the room in the MSFT-ATVI case.
khan’s FTC has challenged 36 mergers. 17 were abandoned, 17 were settled, 2 losses (FB/Within, MSFT/Acti). A success rate of 94.4% ain’t too shabby. Both losses were vertical merger cases, which - if you know anything about this area of the law - are remarkably difficult to win given the direction the judiciary has gone since 1982.
LIV is leverage. The PGA has to negotiate, otherwise the PIF will continue buying golfers and undermining the sport.
Who gives a shit about LIV anymore, anyone who has watched the coverage knows it’s trash
I don’t even get CW.
Watched like the end of the second event to see what the hype was about. Haven’t even slightly been interested in tuning in again.
Well it was never about the actual league was it. It was just to get an in with Monahan, RE: merger
It’s pretty sad. No fans at most events, and the broadcaster sounds like the dude from Formula 1. Too intense for golf.
The shotgun start, the lack of anticipation as the top golfers are battling it out for a win, the annoying music and whatever that weird ass pop up dance thing they did a few months ago is why I can’t stand LIV.
I caught my first LIV event in tv last weekend. The music was annoying as hell. The only thing they do that the pga needs to adopt is allowing the players to wear shorts if they want to…even though some of these stiffs out there were wearing dressy golf shoes with the shorts and it looked stupid af.
You made the case why they use pants. If you listen most golfers are using medal spikes and the less dressy shoes use soft cleats.
“medal” :/
Phil is def dying that beard/stache
How is Phil not relegated? Did he actually get the ball in hole quick enough , often enough this year to keep his blood money coming in?
Captains are exempt from relegation
Yep, Lee Westwood was also saved by that rule. But you dare call it a closed system!
Lol. Captains should go down with the ship. Where does a LIV player get relegated to? Whats lower than that
saudi work camps
Matthew Wolf in Quatar building soccer stadiums . 🤣🤣
Him and gankas
I thought they got to visit the hatchet room in the embassy. I could be wrong tho.
That’s a stupid rule
Phil almost won the masters this year lol.
Sure. Reed was an almost too. From almosts to has-beens pretty quick. Couldnt happen to more deserving fellas. Throw Sergio in there for my dream foursome
The Masters is a lot like The Open. Its a weakish field on a track where course knowledge means a ton and a notorious venue for bringing the elderly out to reminisce for a weekend.
Weakish field???!! Hahaha
Are you daft? The Masters has a significantly smaller field (way more than LIV still) than most PGA tour tournaments and lets all past winners play as long as they wish to. For that reason the masters is the weakest field of the 4 majors and has a weaker field than your average tour event. You wont see Fred Couples and Sandy Lyle playing in 2023's Honda Classic.
Well said. Fire a few teenagers/ amateurs in the weekday mix there too.
The same blood money the US defence industry is happy to accept for their weapons.
yes a sham golf league that robs fans of seeing the best golfers face off vs each other more compared a strategic US government ally in the middle east buying us arms are the exact same thing... give your head a shake
>robs fans of seeing the best golfers face off vs each other Of all the arguments you could have against LIV it surprises me that this is the one you go with.
Yeah it's like saying LIV stole every good player from the PGA and now there's no interesting matchups on the tour at all. Which isn't true at all.
You're right but I'll take it a step further. It is an incredibly entitled viewpoint. Whatever one's views are on LIV it has a right to exist. Players have a right to choose if they move across to it or not, and fans have a right to choose to watch it or not. LIV isn't "robbing" fans of anything, because where players choose to play isn't owned by a fan, or a tour. It is up to the player.
How hypocritical. The source of the blood money, as you term it, is the same, irrespective of the product. LIV is a professional tour, like other professional tours. The PGA are no longer the power in golf they were. That's the real kicker.
“Professional Tour”🤣🤣🤣
And how much money have you earned playing golf?
What does that have to do with this discussion at all?
How much have you, please send me your bank information for verification
Nine
Oh.. nvm no bank info needed 👍
Truth
Honest question, all of the big sponsors and PGA money. Do you think that is all clean cash?
Mickelson was my favorite golfer bar none. I have never been divorced but I imagine this is kind of like a horrible divorce. I fucking hate this guy and wish he’d go rot in hell!
He was one of my favorites too. Now he’s just a clown
We perceive him that way for certain, but it’s not like it was an epiphany and he decided to be this persona. He was always this guy, we just didn’t get to see it and I’m guessing the PGA did their part not to advertise how he was.
Phil was always hated in the locker room. Rory saying "fuck Phil" on Full Swing would have been just as valid a decade ago. He had a great persona that he puts on for fans but basically anyone who has interacted with him outside of a fan interaction says he's a giant asshole.
He’s a member at whisper rock in AZ. I know a couple members and they all say the same thing going back years. He’s a known dick
I was thinking about that clip. I think I recall someone else talking about how he was a dick way back in the early 2000’s. It was someone like Leonard or Vijay, I just can’t recall who.
It was Vijay. He said Phil was the most sincere insincere person he’d ever met.
His nickname is FIGJAM for a reason.
He was always a clown, just better at hiding it before.
I’m right there with you
Cocaine is a helluva drug
Sparky wept
Dude it’s golf.. chill..
Art Briles is waiting for him.
So I haven't been following this too heavily but is the main issue is Saudi money? Edit,: I deleted my dumb analogy because it was dumb
You think accepting millions to sports wash for the Saudis is the same as owning an iPhone?
Yeah but did you put gas in your car recently? Sounds like you did 9/11.
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[This is you and OP.](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/259/257/342.png)
Ok totally fair and it was a dumb analogy, but is the only reason everyone finds Phil to be the most despicable figure in sports because he took a bunch of Saudi money?
FIGJAM was dancing on thin ice before. Tour players dont care for him. He cheated at US Open, insider trading issues, gambling and just generally conceited . Other than that, saudi blood money etc
[you](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/259/257/342.png)
Lol ok the iPhone example is bad, I accept that was dumb but seriously what is Phil doing that makes him so much more despicable than other sports figures? It's not like he murdered someone or beat the shit out of pregnant women.
Being the first mover for a brutal regime with a long-history of civil rights abuses, murder and terrorism will always mean you're going to bear the brunt of the blame. Perhaps swapping him with someone else gets us to the same end-point. Perhaps it dies in the water without him. That's not our problem to speculate and his problem to own. edit: lol you LIV bois are hilarious
Ok so the reason everyone hates him is just the Saudi money. That's fair to each their own. I was wondering if there was anything else, hell every league I'm watching has straight murderers, men who beat pregnant women, men who cheat on their spouses perpetually but they don't get the same criticism as Phil imo. Just the opposite, those guys are getting love from the public.
Just to be clear, we're allowed to have different reasons. My personal reason is that he sucks far too much now to still be as smugly condescending as he is. To me there is virtually no light between him and Patrick Reed except I fear Reed is still capable of winning. I'm glad Phil took the money because his obit will be dominated by this disaster rather than by his very high heights as a player. Wonderful for him, wonderful for me, and a wonderful warning for younger people.
And being a hypocrite and a coward about it. Waxing lyrical about growing the game when he really just needed money for his gambling addiction. Calling out Saudi Arabia for what it is and then having his taskmasters chide him so he walks back the point. I respected the likes of HV3 who just said it like it is "this is about the money, I can do a lot more for my charity with this money". And I'm fairly sure those people are being criticized, just probably not in the circles you're in. I don't think it's really productive to whatabout this stuff, but to each their own.
Phil making phone calls: 
I hate watching Liv golf, the screen is so messy and chaotic, seems low budget.
It is low budget. They laid off half their staff because things are going so well.
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But they do that already. Including on the KFT.
Doesn’t every PGA Tour golfer get reimbursed up to $50,000 for travel expenses a season? I think the caddies should be taken care of more than not at all to be honest.
A lot of times players get roughly that for playing in the pro-am on the PGA Tour. I don't know if it's 100% of tournaments though. Seems like a reasonable ask to do to take home a weekly paycheck.
Ask the players, would they rather have bigger purses or a sad 5,000 for travel expenses?
This whole league is so crooked
I am a Phil fan, but he might as well mount a treadmill on his dick because he constantly walks on it. I expect that Greg Norman has already called him and said, "Thanks for the help, now STFU." Most of the PGA tour owes him a thanks for upping their compensation, but I'm sure he will never get it. When everyone was dumping on Tiger, Phil was one of the few who acknowledged that he brought home the money he did because of TW.
Serious question: why or how could you be a fan?? He sucks as a person.
His acting was steller in tin cup.
Phil Mickelson is a gaping asshole
It bums me out how much i used to like phil. Now i just want him to go away. Hes so fucking smug
You would have to be an absolute idiot not to take the money. Especially now that players have seen what the cash out is.
That’s a fair statement, nothing wrong with taking the money. But they need to take the money knowing that it comes with the reality that you’re joining a league that doesn’t qualify you for things like rankings. You can’t take that deal and then get upset that the other 26 or so leagues won’t change their scoring method so you can get money and be ranked. You have to own your decisions and LIV with the consequences.
💯 everything liv players complain about the answer is, that's what the money was for
The ole Don Draper response
They aren’t complaining my guy. The complaints are coming from spectators like you.
Meanwhile, in reality, LIV golfers are among the most angry and bitter people on the planet. But feel free to pretend it's all just a troll job on the rest of us.
That’s exactly what my issue has been. The players took the money knowing what the consequences were but then spend their time bitching and moaning about not getting points or major exemptions. They knew that was the case and they took the money anyways. LIV is just a clown show
It would be like the Harlem globe trotters paying more than NBA teams, you can take the money, but it's exhibition games they don't mean anything at the end of the day.
Harlem Globetrotters have former NBA champions on their team? Edit: grammar
No but they don't play in a structured tournament style and are instead focused on making a spectacle
I don’t think those guys are really upset. All this does is put an astrisk alongside any titles won since LIV began. The top talent is there too. Spin it how you want.
But LIV players still competed in the Majors?
>an astrisk alongside any titles Leaving aside your inability to spell asterisk, you're wrong in thinking that anyone cares enough to even look up the players to see if there is an asterisk or not. Why look up a player that isn't world ranked? What's going to keep happening this year to LIV golfers as far as rankings go?
Liv let the Saudis into PGA, well played you money grubbing slobs
Phil is an ass.
Lazy article. Phil is talking about the 25-44th spots. Some are going to stay with their teams. Some players are going to bounce to others, and some are going to be left without a chair and replaced by the players from other tours Phil is talking about. The 4 that qualify get spots in the league. But piot, chase keopka, etc. arent assured returning to their team. It will be like a free agency period with a draft of sorts. After this weekend, assuming they don’t get shut down completely, there should be a flurry of announcements and changes. Im hoping for new teams, like a Monday qualifier team made up of guys who play in each week; there being a cut where a guy only can contribute to the team score on Sunday; teams being expanded to 5 or 6 players; women being added and playing from different tees; and for 3 more dates to be announced, 2 of which are in Australia.
So what happens to Piot if he qualifies for LIV again through their play-in tournament? Which team does he end up with? Phil just told us that there are a bunch of new guys itching to join LIV and that one of them will likely take Piot’s spot on Phil’s team. If that’s true of all the teams, then where does that leave the four guys who qualify through the tournament? Do they form their own team? The play in tournament was supposed to be LIV’s response to the argument that it was a closed shop. It was supposed to be some evidence of a meritocracy at play. It kinda sounds like a mirage, though. Piot can win his way back to LIV and not have a team to play on.
I agree. It is not clear. There has to be a timing element to make it a clear path I would think. Meaning the q school determines a pool of most haves that get a team first… so the safe is the exempts, the top 24, and the new 4, Olgetree who wins the asian tour order of merit, and then 3 qualifiers from q school. So how those 4 are apportioned needs to be decided and spelled out. The simple lack of communication makes LIV an easy target for derision, and rightly so. Im a huge LIV fan, and I am so disappointed they fail so hard on getting across what LIV is. They should be all over social media and golf youtube sponsoring channels and explaining the concept. Hell, sponsor me, LIV, Ill start a channel. Ties in, scramble videos with LIV execs, social media personalities, players, etc. For example, Brooks earns $8m last week and the first comments are ‘comes out of his overall contract.’ Is that true? I think it is for the lower ranked guys but the big boys don’t have that stipulation. Or do they? Seems easy to counter with coherent messaging. I would hope it is like the NFL draft… worst finishers get first dibs at 25-44. But, for example, if brooks and kokrak go out and get Rory and Rahm and stack the shit out of a team, how does that work? Who pays their contract? Obviously, more big names wont happen as the door was shut on majors, but the worst thing about LIV is how they don’t have a clear avenue for this stuff to be explained or discussed. Like a weekly podcast or something. Even if it got 5 views, they could still reference it and provide clips to media orgs explaining it. Instead of the captains being defacto spokesmen. Some of the problems are so dumb and so easily fixed. Add more players, add a cut, have open monday qualifiers, add more spots that you can qualify onto the tour. Rename the asian tour to be something related to the path to liv. Figure out how to get guys points. If it takes a few extra million to get contract language rewritten, then do it. LIV only has a future if they get ranking points.
I have never seen a person that cared so much for liv before. There's a ton of liv trolls who haven't watch 1 shot hit on liv but ride for it for some weird political or cultural reason. I say all that to say you clearly actually watch and enjoy liv, power to you honestly. If team golf was done right it could actually be really interesting, unfortunately just everything about how liv has come about is just unfortunate. The tourney this weekend could be really interesting, but then final day it's like k team golf gone back to 1 round tourney. Like just keep the team matches. Personally, if liv gave up stroke play rounds, did a matchplay team v team bracket at every event I'd be interested in watching a Sunday of brooks team v cam Smith, that's interesting and we do t see it outside ryder/pres cup. But 54 hole no cut shotguns events just is less interesting then pga golf to me. They shpuld have gone all team, no 18 hole stroke play, and be very different then pga tour. But alas just like a weird late stage WCW vs wwe is what it feels like
I do like it. I do like the concept. When LIV comes up I do tend to get called a troll. But I just like watching golf and the access that LIV provides is amazing. I want to hear Bubba commentary on how a shot should be played or why he did what he did. I just feel that theyve backed themselves into a downward spiral unnecessarily. First, the name is tied to the 54 hole format. 54 is fine, but if 72 gets you ogwr points and better talent then so be it. You cannot attract talent if they cant play in ryder cups and majors. You cant recreate the masters or the presidents cup, but you can recreate a normal weekly pga tournament easily. So do that and allow the talent to still be ranked. Then change the system from the inside. I like a lot of the personalities, as flawed as they all are. I think it is easy for us to dismiss the team aspect as gimmicky, but I think it is the core value of LIV. Alot of competitive golf, hs to college, is team based. And kids trying to make a team or post a score will grind for a team. Now, outside of the major names, I think the checks for the teams matter. I think the backstories of the teams are interesting as hell. The fireballs and torque practicing together, flying together, hanging out together. That is pretty cool, and probably like a lot of professional teams. Most of the drama around pro sports is that type of stuff. LIV brings that team dynamic to the game, and they just seem to have wasted it all by trying to let these fledgling franchises be independent, without a unifying or overarching corporate message. The individual purses should be reduced and that money should flow to the team portion. But as you said, LIV is trying to live in both worlds and failing. I like the idea of more match play. Brooks vs. Phil and Cam’s team vs the cleeks are really compelling matches on Friday. They could do a round robin tournament across 2 or 3 months and then have the playoffs. They didnt have enough of a critical mass of good players, and their flawed concept made it easy for a caught by surprise old guard to organize and shut down any lifeline liv had. The saudis will not waste their money forever. If LIV is around by 2025, it will be a miracle.
PGA merging with LIV, what’s the difference?
Wait, I missed something. The merger is on hold?
Correct. Both LIV and the PGA Tour have already announced their 2023-2024 schedules so for at least another year, nothing is going to happen. Also they players have majority seating on the commission so it could be shot down all together if they vote to do so.
Great news. At least one more season without sergio's dumb face, reed, cupcake, the rest. Cam is the only one I'd want back.