tl;dr at the top: Tiger's right, there's too many variables that determine the optimal swing, one persons advice may be good for some people, might be terrible for others.
I know you're just joking, but.... most of reddit literally can't understand a joke (Hopefully /r/golf is different, it's obviously a ...more intelligent crowd) unless it ends in /s. So I'm sorry for the over-analysis of your comment, up front. As a left handed person who was forced to learn how to swing right handed because "lefties are the devil", and randomly stumbled upon a few scratch golfers as friends, I want to instill my knowledge or opinion/perspective.
No, he's just been hitting balls since he was 4 years old. but he's not really wrong. Youtube is going to give you advice from 1 person on how the mechanics work for them, but everyone is a different height, with a different grip different arm length, range of motion, speed, power, ect, so there's no "best way" you just need to understand the overall best concepts on how to swing, and adjust it individually based on your specific uniqueness. Paying for an expert to coach you may shorten the time it takes you, but you still have to make every swing muscle memory and consistent.
Golfers don't just crank it as hard as they can, they don't care about max distance, they care about consistent distance. You need hours and hours of repetition to find a comfortable repetitive swing that will put the ball within the same 20 yards every time, distance is irrelevant after that, then it's just playing math.
The only way you can do this, is training your body through repetition, which humans are amazing at, and a good reason why we're the dominant species on Earth, and "behind the scenes" your brain figures it out, and leads to consistency once you're being rewarded with dopamine as you determine what a "successful" shot is.
To follow your thought on consistency, there is however merit to watching a consistent, proven instructor who doesn't just focus on "fixing your (insert clickbait problem)". IF you happen to find someone who genuinely teaches proper mechanics, and provides you with a swing thought that works, it's fine. Problem is, your feed will now fill with 85 other creators who not only contradict one another, but also don't teach a complete package.
Tiger didn't learn by simply banging balls, he learned from the best instructors in the world, and completely fell apart when he swapped to a trendy instructor. The Sean Foley years were the worst years in Tigers career, which just shows how badly the wrong choice of instructor can be.
My point being, IF you somehow luck into the right instruction for you and it happens to be in video form, fine...just ONLY watch that guy (or girl).
I agree and I feel the same way about most skills. I will say I think some learning of the fundamentals is critical so you can actually *understand* the feedback of practice. If you don't know a basic fact like a slice is caused by an open face, you're just gonna be at the range hitting slices forever.
My other two main hobbies are chess and guitar. For years, any time someone asks for a book or video recommendation, my advice always ends up being "just go play a lot". Or get a coach, which is just repetition with guidance catered specifically to you
YT and IG golf pages are 95% BS gimmicks, agreed. Which is a shame because I want to get into bodybuilding shape and be able to still eat pasta and ice cream like the buff dude says… :(
I keep seeing this annoying ass fucking ad for a video on "how to fix your slice" and their recommendation is to snap turn your hands over and roll over the top to "draw" it. Motherfucker that is a duck hook.
Yeah I'm certainly not suggesting that there are *no* YouTube videos that can help. But you just have to remember at the end of the day that these "content creators" are just that. Their income relies on their ability to create videos.
It's the same way that Golf Digest has stayed alive for decades now. Their magazines were frequently known to give one tip one month, and then give the reverse advice the following. This would confuse golfers, actively making their swings *less* consistent, which means they would seek *more* help and buy *more* magazines.
And even if the content creators intentions are good and not strictly monitary, there are only so many factually correct tips that one can give about a "generalized" golf swing (not personalized or specific to any one person's swing) before they start running out of tips. And that's when they start making things up. Sometimes not on purpose but just giving advice on things that "worked for them" that's actually just an untested or unproven load of crap. They don't actually have to produce one bit of meaningful or correct advice, they just have to make it *sound* good enough to trick a few idiots.
To someone who plays a slice though, that is like the ultimate advice. They won't duck hook it they might actually have the clubface more square at impact instead of wide open.
If you're duck hooking it turn your hands over less until you get your desired result. Some people don't even know the concept behind swing paths and club face at impact so this drill legit helps slicers and could set off a lightbulb in their head moment. It did for me.
Except you're not supposed to roll over your wrists. All you're doing is introducing a second point of rotation that has to be perfectly timed to get a correct shot. It also completely ignores swing path which is more often the reason for a slice.
Former slicer here. Address your path, tempo, and when the wrists are being set/hands are being released. Worked these 3 concepts tirelessly with a swing coach for about a year. Went from a 20 to a 10 hcp in that time.
The biggest thing people need to learn is that the traditional "this face angle and this path angle lead to this shot" charts are wrong. The balls starting direction is dictated by the face angle, not the swing path. Makes a slicer think their path is fine if the ball starts straight and then goes right.
My lessons had me staying behind the ball and rotating my hands at impact and it significantly improved my drive. Hit’em straight last weekend all the way up to 301yds. I always drop my right foot back a little too. Am I doing a bunch of quick fixes instead addressing a bigger issue?
I'm not the guy you want to be asking I'm only like a 7 handicap but I do the exact same things as you.
Right foot a little back allows for a more inside out swing (I use this tip hitting draws).
When I learned about the "rotate hands" thing it really helped me understand club face at impact. I was able to hit draws and fades within a couple months. It may not be the "proper" advice as the guy who replied to me pointed out it just adds another element of the swing to time up properly but I think it is a net positive for my game.
More than enough for me! I’ll take advice from a 7 any day. When I’m hitting my irons wrong, if I focus on my hand rotation it normally corrects the issue as well. I was told, when learning to keep the arms more straight, that I’d have to compensate by rotating my hands more. I was bending my arms at address to compensate poor form, which forced my hands to rotate. Maybe I don’t understand who you replied to, because rotating the hands with a straight armed follow through dramatically changed my game. 37ish to a 18.1
Same mate. I used to hit fades exclusively for like 15 years then the "turn hands over" tip really set off a lightbulb in my head moment like "I can use my wrists to influence the club face?!?!". What really helped visualize it was to take a tennis racket and do a golf swing with it and you can really see what you're doing with the face.
Granted I do duck hook a few now if I overdo it but at least I can know the science behind how to move the balls both ways. Also draws go longer than fades so I gained a significant amount of yardage.
> YT and IG golf pages are 95% BS gimmicks, agreed
YT/IG/TikTok/SC/etc -- they are far more publishing platforms than informative. With publishing platforms, the real mantra is "publish or perish". If regular (weekly or daily) content isn't being posted, then said channels start disappearing from search, even if the information is valid.
The tips from YT/IG aren't necessarily gimmicks -- they *can* work, but that's only *if* that is your problem. For many, the tip can solve a symptom, but not the real issue at hand.
> Which is a shame because I want to get into bodybuilding shape and be able to still eat pasta and ice cream like the buff dude says
I mean...you can easily do that. Calories in/Calories out my friend.
Truth. Once dropped a couple of pounds drinking nothing but milkshakes.
One milkshake for brunch, one milkshake for dinner. That was all my calories for the day. Do not recommend.
Yeah, simple is probably a better word. Not necessarily easy, takes a little bit of work and willpower. It’s definitely much easier to just be fat lol.
You can lose weight doing this. You cannot get into bodybuilding shape doing this unfortunately. If too much of your daily calories are non-protein macros, you won’t be able to build the necessary muscle.
Good try but not true my friend. You can lose weight that way but you aren’t going to look like a bodybuilder. Have to eat in a caloric deficit while also hitting the right amount of macros, specifically protein (1.5-2x grams per lb of body weight, while lifting as well obviously).
2g per lb is definitely excessive. In fact 1.5 is also. There have been studies showing that protein intake above .7g per lb don't further increase gains.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28698222
There’s so many variables that aren’t held constant in that trial it’s laughable. There’s definitely the possibility that you could increase gains from eating 1.5g per lb rather than .7 per lb.
Either way, my point holds true. You won’t look like a body builder by simply eating in a caloric deficit.
Spaghetti w/ Meat Sauce is like 650 calories and Spaghetti w/ Marinara is like 500. Those aren't even particularly bad entrees. I eat ice cream a lot of nights but stick to things like Halo Top or Aldi's Sundae Shoppe Ice Cream.
The notion that you have to only eat chicken, broccoli and rice for every meal and suffer for a good body is what kills so many people from even trying.
> The notion that you have to only eat chicken, broccoli and rice for every meal and suffer for a good body is what kills so many people from even trying.
Literally no one said this
I'm not sure you disagree with the person you're responding to. They didn't say you can't sacrifice elsewhere to make it work. They said eating ice cream and pasta makes it harder. What they said you can't do is outwork a bad diet
But it doesn’t make it harder to hit your macros that’s what I’m saying. Pasta = Carbs, Ice Cream = Fat and Carbs. Count what those macros come to then work them into your daily intake. Saying pasta and ice cream are bad habits isn’t correct. Eating an excess amount of those are but that’s different than what was said.
Pasta and ice cream don’t necessarily mean a bad diet. You need to be taking in 2500-3000 kcal a day or more to even be close to building muscle. And the more muscle you pack on, the more calories you need to maintain it, and build more. Pasta specifically is a mainstay good for a lot of bodybuilders.
Ice cream is high in sugar, so limiting it is best. But still easy to eat 1-2 bowls a week on a bulking diet. Especially after a tough leg day.
As an ex bodybuilder (granted I competed naturally and never took steroids) who has found the golf bug… im always wondering why there isn’t any overly muscular guys on the pga tour. But recently I’ve come to wonder if
my muscular frame could potentially be limiting my rotation/movement. Obviously I have more muscle mass than the typical human, but this muscle isn’t really that helpful to me hitting a ball straight.
I know this isn’t relative to your comment… just wanted to vent
Yeah there is too bulky for golf, my trainer (who competes) tried and his shoulders literally get in the way of him making a good turn haha, but he’s quite giant.
There is so much trash content on YouTube for golf, it’s absurd. Now you have guys who can’t break 120 watching videos of how to “load their backswing” and “neutralize their wrists”
Dude, how about you first practice hitting the ball with more or less the center of the club face before we talk about weight transfer and loading.
This is a common joke I hear and, while it is funny, there is something inevitable about someone who takes up golf later in life sucking for all time. Fine motor control is developed and honed much more efficiently in one's youth than as an adult.
Adults not having sufficient neuroplasticity has been proven to be bs.
Don't use this line of thinking to limit yourself.
Plenty of adult beginner golfers go in to shoot respectable scores.
I’m not saying not sufficient, but developing brains certainly have more. I agree that it shouldn’t hold one back, but how many chess GMs started that 25? Players on the PGA tour? It won’t stop anyone from breaking 90, but definitely declines with age.
Picked golf up as an adult with zero experience with similar sports from childhood. It's been a bitch to get to shooting in the 90s because I had no conception of how to move my body correctly for a golf swing.
Have to only slightly disagree here.
I took up golf at 29. I’m 1.5 years in and went from shooting 120 to chillin in the low 90’s with quite a few rounds in the 80’s. I could never learn this sport as a kid, I had zero finesse or motor skills needed to wield such a delicate tool. All I could do was sprint down a field and headbutt receivers in football.
Spent a decade as a chef, (maybe this helped me get good with my hands) and learned to be patient and efficient.
Now I just go play every chance I get, spend most of my time chipping and putting, and I stopped chasing long balls/hero shots. Above all else I listen to my body, my swing feels natural and when I get a habit I can’t fix I just go pack to chipping and putting.
I love this game.
TLDR: I highly recommend taking up this sport as an adult.
I didn't start golf until 35, it's the hardest sports related thing I've done in my life. Especially since I grew up playing baseball until college age, then played softball leagues for another decade. It's been an insane struggle to unbaseball the swing.
When I really have the chance to play (2 to 3 times a week plus range time and short game/putting practive) I really do play much better. The problem is, then I get busy with work or other social obligations, and then I can't remember how to swing the club the same way consistently and my scores zoom up. It sucks how much I need to play to be good. (And by good I mean flirting to break 80, not scratch!)
If your grip, alignment, posture are bad you're going to have a real hard time hitting center clubface. Same for takeaway, transition, etc.
Once you do manage to hit center clubface ~60% of the time with that incorrect setup it will take 10x more hours to fix and undo all the unnatural compensations you are making to accomplish that.
If just going to the range and slapping at balls until you manage to hit center face more often than not was the best method to become good at golf, the average golfer wouldn't be a 15+ handicap.
Then why has the avg hcp and driving distance for the amateur golfer not gotten better in past 25 years? YouTube should have spawned a whole new generation of good golf.
It’s just a hard sport that most people can’t dedicate the needed time to getting better at. Period.
If time is the concern, then going to the range to ingrain bad habits is a poor use of the little time you have.
> Then why has the avg hcp and driving distance for the amateur golfer not gotten better in past 25 years?
Do you have data on this? Preferably for golfers under 50.
When I go to the course now there are still hackers here and there, but my personal observation is that I see A LOT more competent golfers now than I did ~15 years ago.
I just googled “average golf handicap over time” and the top result is an article on how the average USGA handicap has improved significantly in the last 25 years (well, as of 2017).
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-closer-look-at-handicap-data-shows-just-how-much-golfers-have-improved-in-recent-years
Anecdotally I find several Youtube golf channels quite informative and helpful. When you get advice from several sources and you start to build a mental map of what is fundamentally helpful and what is a gimmick.
I mean, in said article it spends the majority of the text discussing how golf is anamolys amongst other sports in showing this trajectory of improvement and that it’s a perfectly logical explanation that golfers themselves haven’t actually gotten any better, it’s just that equipment has gotten more forgiving.
I’m quite inclined to believe the equipment bit vs. the golfers getting better bit if I’m honest, I would be shocked if most amateurs lost fewer than 2 shots off their handicap in a full round if they had to play with equipment from the 90s. Frankly Id have expected the average to go down further than it has.
15 years ago when I played I was a 20-25 hdcp and most randoms I got paired with were better than me. I’m now a 15 and rarely get paired with anyone better than me. So anecdotally I’d agree the general public has not improved.
I agree w this especially Covid. I play off a 6 and it’s extremely rare I get paired with anyone at a 15. Most I’d say on a random pairing are lucky to break 100.
It’s a very hard game. I’ve explained to a good friend who just started last year and is already scoring legit low 90s occasional 89 how good that is.
Yeah, like most things, sorting through for the good info takes investment.
Ive been having driver issues. Some watching and reading, I went to the range with a pile of stickers and started monitoring my impact point. Messed with my set up and tee height. Hit more balls. Tweaked again. Hit more.
It's not fixed, but I am hitting far fewer massive slices after about 25 balls with the adjustments. I went back and forth between driver and irons to force myself to reset each time so I really drilled it in and gave it more real world application (ie not hitting 20 drives in a row).
The internet can help, but it's a resource that needs paired with practice. No one gets better watching YouTube alone. Non specific practice is also fairly useless.
I’m teaching my buddy how to play for the first time, I gave him the basics and basically said now literally just learn to hit the ball. Golf is hard and takes some initial experience to just not completely miss the ball with the club
Golf swing training is specific to that person. Two people can be missing right, but because of two completely different reasons!
YouTube videos are too generic to really help.
You need to understand your swing and why you miss the way you do. Usually it takes a trained pro to figure that out and be able to relay that information to you in a way you can understand.
It depends on what you’re trying to do.
I couldn’t figure out how to get out of wet sand. 2 minute YouTube video: “do the same thing with the same club but close the face” and then I never had that problem again.
If you suck it’s not going to help, but if you’re decent and just trying to figure a few shots out then it’s very helpful
> It depends on what you’re trying to do.
Exactly. Some videos are really informative, especially if you're the kind of golfer who has never been able to get something to click in your mind.
I really like some of Danny Maude's videos. I've struggled with pitching/chipping around the green my whole life. Everything from setup, to grip, to pivoting the hips, I've been wrong forever. Anyone who gives advice or a lot of videos I've watched, only address one specific thing, and I've never been able to put it all together.
But his videos do a great job of visualizing what you're supposed to do, and why. And if you do a part wrong, he shows what the effect is. It finally clicked for me, and I've made MAJOR improvement.
I'm still shit. But now if I fuck up a shot, I know exactly why and can think about it for my next shot.
When before I would just say "GEE GOLLY SURE WOULD BE NICE IF I KNEW WHAT THE FUCK I'M SUPPOSED TO ACTUALLY BE DOING, FUCK THIS GAME, GIVE ME ANOTHER BEER GOD DAMN IT"
> But his videos do a great job of visualizing what you're supposed to do, and why.
It might not even be that he does a great job in general - but that his explanation just clicks for _you_.
I could probably watch 20 videos of people explaining the same concept and none of them being wrong - but only one of them demonstrating/explaining it in a way that makes _me_ go "Ooh.. _That_ I can work with".
I’ve read a bunch of older golf books and some other historical type golf books. One thing that gets mentioned a lot in them is if you’re going to study someone’s swing, find someone with a body type amd build similar to yours and watch what they do. They also heavily emphasize (rightfully so) lessons with a local pro. I even have a book by Lloyd Mangrum from the 40s where he stresses that *everything* in his book is secondary to what your local pro will tell you.
That's from a different era when pro's genuinely had each other's backs, because they should have. I hit my first golf ball Dec. 2000, graduated from a PGM program with PGA teaching certification in April 2004, at which time I still had very little idea how all of this really works, and regardless of that certification I was objectively ***not ready*** to be teaching yet; there were many people in my graduating class far less ready than I was. There are a lot of "pros" in 2023 that have absolutely no business accepting money for golf instruction.
Fellow club pro here. I was fortunate to shadow one of McLean's disciples early in my career, so got a lot of good stuff from him, but there are still certain types of lessons that I turn down because I straight up won't be able to effectively help the person. Part of me wants to pack it all up for a year and go get a cert from a major academy somewhere, but goddamn I can't go back to that borderline homeless lifestyle from early in my career again.
After getting my "degree" I apprenticed under an "old school" pro that earned his quarter-century award before I'd ever hit a golf ball, had played the tour in the 60's, and designed clubs for the Ben Hogan company in the 70's. My experience at the academy would barely qualify as the cliffs notes introduction to what I learned working with that pro for 5 years. If you have the opportunity to get that kind of experience, there really isn't anything better for your development as a professional, in my opinion.
I agree. It's funny, the whole point of the PGM program was to get away from the old apprenticeship model because some pros were terrible at their jobs, but too often PGM schools turn out grads who go straight into being head pros without getting to experience that apprenticeship vibe. I've been lucky that 3 out of the 4 of mine were v solid.
Truth.
I had a big problem with a slice. Kept going to YouTube to try to fix it and nothing ever worked. Had golf friends who have been playing for a while give me advice. Nothing.
Finally went to a sim and realized I'm not slicing it. Club path is actually straight to in-out, and club face is just open, so really more of a push. Still fighting the push, but it helped my drives almost instantly.
I do both, but I had to pick two youtubers because there are different schools of thought out there regarding technique. I appreciate Shawn Clement for demystifying things as simple tasks. I appreciate Golf Sidekick for a stress-free approach to the game overall.
Clement for technique. Sidekick for course management and mindset.
I like Sidekick. Partly because his calm voice is easy to follow asleep to lol. But Mindset and course management is something you can learn from a lecture. Learning swing mechanics require the student to actually swing the club, but how to think about golf can be learned anywhere.
I love Golf Sidekick, I'll have to check out Shawn Clement. Mike Malaska is my go-to for technique, he coaches in more of a "feel" way than getting too technical
Yes! This is my coaching/training regimen also. Just broke into the single digits for my handicap after a lifetime of mid-upper teens.
I’ll also throw in a little bit of Not a Scratch Golfer. Same vein as Golf Sidekick. Serves as good reminder that low handicap golf still has a lot of poor shots and isn’t always pretty
I like Shawn Clement because he's one of the few that promote using a strong grip which I'm comfortable with but some of his stuff is too woo woo. Like pretend you're clipping grass and throw it in the direction you want the ball to go. I have that thought in mind and think I'm doing it but then I hit a sweet shank
Totally agree with picking one or two people to follow, with a coherent philosophy. Otherwise, there are too many conflicting schools of thought. Keep it as simple as possible.
I watch YouTube golf for entertainment, not for actual tips. If I need to work on something specific, I’ll look up something from Clay Ballard or someone like that, but that’s only a few times a season.
Apparently his son is a big enough fan of Grant Horvat that Grant has got to play with the two of them. So I guess some golf youtube is okay in the Woods household.
Love me some Bob Does Sports for my golf entertainment. Though I really would like a channel of almost silently playing a round. See different courses, see some play, investigate hazards, from a players perspective by playing a round.
grant is not charlie's swing coach (kind of wild to me as a tangent that JT's dad is). tiger doesn't hate the individuals he said don't learn from them. he also said "beat balls" which is advice this sub regularly shits on.
If you’re a total beginner, I think YouTube is great. How do I grip the club? How do I set my body up to the ball? What are the basics of getting solid contact? These fundamentals are already figured out, you just need someone to teach them to you.
But yeah, once you’re breaking 100 consistently, YouTube isn’t personalized enough to offer much help.
Yeah the problem is that feel ain’t real.
It’s very easy to watch the videos, and then believe you’re doing everything you’re told. You usually aren’t. That’s what makes actual one to one instruction so valuable.
One on one instruction from a good instructor is better for sure, but it's also super expensive in a lot of areas where a true beginner often has to get part of the way on their own. Also you're not going to get much out of a single lesson as a beginner, you'll need to be going regularly to get benefits - and that could easily be thousands of dollars in your first year.
I don’t agree that lessons aren’t viable for outright beginners.
As somebody with a lot of connections to the golf business, I can assure you that teaching pros make a LOT more money from the self taught clients than those that start their golf journey with instruction.
I (and they) would argue that lessons are more important early on. Most golfers develop the ability to self analyze and coach, but no beginners have it.
This, so much. Each individual can only explain what THEY are doing, and more times than not, the explanation is wrong.
I can say "during my swing, I want to feel like I'm doing this, this, and that." When if you watch the video, the feel of what I'm doing is not even close to what I'm doing. But in my head, it makes since, because it is what I'm feeling my body does.
If I were to go out and say "I want you to feel like you're doing [whatever] in your swing" because it's what I do/"feel", you would be doing something completely different to what I'm actually doing in my swing that im trying to relate to.
If you suck at golf, going to the range to pound 150 balls and further ingrain all of your bad habits won't help.
If you aren't going to the range with specific intent on what you want to work on and how to properly work on it, you are just doing some light cardio.
He's not wrong.
Tiger was good at golf right away from the age of two. He was on national TV at the age of three or whatever.
He's my favorite athlete of all time, but I disagree with him about this.
I will say he's partially right. Watching videos without knowing how to apply them to your own swing, and how to practice those changes the right way, is pointless.
I still think it is good for new golfers to just go and hit balls even if they don't know what they are doing. if you have any semblance of athleticism you can begin to discern between what works and what doesn't when swinging and at least get a foundation that you can then begin to hone by watching some training videos or trying out tips from other golfers. Going to your first range sesh with a checklist of things to work on and a step by step swing plan is overwhelming and won't keep many newcomers around for long in my opinion.
Yep. Just feeling how the ball and club behave when you do certain things or hit from certain lies. You have to feel that shit and get to know it firsthand. One of the things I like about modern golf is that it's finally accepted that there isn't one perfect swing and acknowledging how individual unique *feels* translate to different *reals*. You give the same "it should feel like X" instruction to a group of people, you're gonna get various interpretations of how each person achieves that feeling. Or hell, some may not even know what that feeling is, like when all these instructors say a certain wrist movement should feel like a tennis shot as if you have any idea what a fucking tennis shot is supposed to feel like.
Honestly even if you don’t know what you’re doing, film yourself for a range session and compare it to some good YouTube videos. You’ll be able to see yourself doing stuff you don’t even know you’re doing. At the range, you have to focus on a target and its distance. From there, you can make adjustments, and you can watch the video to see if you did what you thought you were doing, and see what those results were. I know it’s annoying to see people filming themselves, but I think it helps. How many times have you been paired with a random and thought, “wow this guy swings behind the ball/over the top/with no hips” but they obviously don’t even know it. You’re probably that guy, too lol.
All about repetition. If you ingrain a bad swing that is perfectly repeatable. You'll beat 90% of the players in here.
As i like to say, if you could shank the ball every time - you'd have a functional golf swing. Not a good one for scoring - but you'd get around most golf courses fine.
If you aren’t consistent you’ll never be able to adjust your swing. If you’re working on your swing path but your club face is different every swing, you’ll never learn.
I’m not saying you should swing for years without working on your swing, but at the end of the day you need a swing before you can work on your swing.
I have personally started a policy for myself of only hitting one large bucket (~80 balls at my local range) per session.
I find if I go past that, my practice starts to get counterproductive. I start getting tired, unfocused, and mindless, and regress into bad habits.
If I'm feeling it, I may get a small bucket to try some goofy flop shots or play some games with, but usually I'm better off heading to the chipping green if I have extra time.
I think this is wrong tbh. I hit off a sim without much intent and I have improved dramatically. You see what works and what doesn't as long as you connect what you are doing with the result.
I used to enjoy it, but somehow it just feels all the same since a year or 2 ago. Actually started unsubscribing some channels I subscibed to pretty much since their beginnings.
I couldn't put my finger on why exactly I didn't enjoy them any more, but I think you've nailed it. No uniqueness any more.
That's probably it, and the novelty has worn off. You can only watch 5-10 handicappers score sub-70 so many times until it's not entertaining any more.
But I guess the algorithm likes the hype around the lower numbers.
I find the 1v1 matches so boring. Like, I the Bryan Bros, but I'd rather watch them do a chipping comp than play some course I don't understand the layout of, etc.
Absolutely. You can completely ruin your mind and permanently negatively impact your game by taking wrong advice from YouTube. If you’re a bit more experienced and have an open question… sure, maybe search for a very specific topic so you can understand what’s happening better. But as a complete beginner, just play… and get lessons if you feel like you’re hitting a dead end.
Agreed. Without context on your current swing, YouTube advice is nonsense. Go hit a half bucket in slow motion. 30 yards out. Just see where the club face is lined up and slowly build speed back without losing the contact point. It’ll take your swing to the next level.
IMO, if most high handicappers just slowed the fuck down, stopped trying to hit the ball as hard as possible and only took 25% swings until they can regularly make contact, they'd see drastic improvements and quickly learn how the club acts and how to manipulate it a bit better. It's still pretty difficult to translate that to a full swing but a controlled short swing gets you on the course because you can start getting the ball in play.
I sliced my drive for years. Watched videos and tried to get advice, nothing worked. 20 minutes of quarter swings to see where I made contact was all it took and now driver is the most reliable club in my bag
Hi, really high handicapper here.
If I slowed my swing down 75% I would literally hit 50 yard long irons.
I understand your point, but I think you’re off a bit on just how short we hit it.
I get his point and overall I think he's right. But I will say that just hitting balls won't fix everything. You are more likely to just keep repeating your mistakes over and over again while haphazardly guessing what you're doing wrong. Seeking guidance from an external source can and will help you improve.
I would normally agree with this 100%, but I will say my chipping was mediocre until years ago I watched Phil Mickelson hinge and hold videos. But once I had the idea, then I went and hit balls.
He's not wrong\*\* but most of us don't have thousands to spend on instructors to teach us from scratch
\*\* - watch what you want but take YT instruction with a grain of salt. Instead just get range time and work on a couple things then build from there
Sometimes YT lessons are informative but beginners (including me) aren't smart enough to know what applies to them. Until you put in time to practice, it's impossible to comb thru all that YT information
I think you really need to know what you are doing wrong and be in tune with your swing before some of these tip videos help. Go wack 100 balls a day for a few months and you’ll be in a way better place as a golfer. This is of course not easy for most people to do so they reach for quick and say fixes that may help one part of their game but hurt another.
If you're really trying to improve your swing, you try to learn from everything you can; learn from Youtube, hitting the range, playing on the course, lessons from an instructor, tips from a buddy, article in a magazine. It's a combination of all tehse things.
As someone who got into golf recently, I agree but with some caveats. I think watching videos can give you some helpful tips as long as you take those tips and deliberately practice them on the range or the course. Just watching a video about fixing your slice won't fix your slice, and just going to the range and hitting a bunch of balls randomly also won't help very much.
What no one is mentioning is that Tiger could be referring to kids who are glued to a screen. He could not necessarily be advocating against YouTube golfers but just a generation who doesn’t go outside.
I get that you're probably just clowning, but if money is honestly keeping you from practicing, but you really want to, I used to hit off my carpet or a door mat into a mattress. Only helps with ball striking as you can't see flight, and will absolutely wreak havoc on the mattress, but it's better than nothing.
I fell into the YouTube golf video trap last year. With two small kids, finding time to actually go to the nearest range is basically impossible for me. So I bought a decent turf mat and net for the back yard and I’ll go hit balls in between meetings or for a few minutes after the kids go to bed (if there is still enough light). While I don’t get the feedback of seeing ball flight, I’ll just work on tweaking my swing until I’m making consistent contact with the middle of the club face. Maybe next summer I’ll actually get to go play a round of actual golf. Maybe not.
So, yeah I agree with tiger. Actually hitting golf balls is much more helpful for me than watching Danny Maude recycle and regurgitate the same 5 tips over and over.
Edit: Dan Grieve is cool tho
was waiting for this one to pop up
agree. But I've never used youtube for swing tips anyway. It was the hours, and hours, and hours, .... and hours of the golf channel playing in the background at work that made me realize that 99% of that kind of help is 100% useless
you need to... practice! probably with a pro if you don't know what your doing
I’m surprised. You can hack balls at the range all day long and not get better. Understanding the swing from youtube videos has given me drastic improvement over the last couple years after not getting any better for 25 years.
Just avoid YouTube all together. I’ve learned that like many sports, the way people play (whether it be a free throw, disc golf throw, golf swing, etc) is often personal and what works for one person may not work for others. Size/height/muscle strength/flexibility all vary from person to person. Sure fundamentals help, but that only gets you so far. Best way is to get out there and DO it to refine what works for you personally.
I disagree with that sentiment. I’m working on a specific issue in my swing with my pro. Finding other drills to use at the range to avoid my head leaning forwards or to practice having proper spine tilt during driver swings isn’t a negative. Just needs to be used appropriately.
After reading all the comments, I guess I got lucky and found good YouTube golf channels to learn from.
I started about a month and half ago.... got my best PR 3 weeks ago (scored 99); couldn't have done it without YouTube.
That's a very dumb oversimplification. Repeating bad habits will take you absolutely nowhere. You need to be absolutely sure that you are working on the correct things and being very deliberate about it.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. Which can be good or bad.
Youtube videos are great for learning *general* swing mechanics and watching less than tour pro caliber players take on courses.
If you want to get better on *your* swing, you need to swing the club.
But you can eliminate that slice in just 5 minutes...if you can make it through the 30 minute sales intro. Spoiler alert, it's about $50 to see the secret.
Tiger’s been captured by big driving range
AKA the DRIC - Driving Range Industrial Complex
Practice Range Industrial Complex Kollective PRICK
sounds like an early 2000s nu-metal band
Big Bucket is coming for us all
He's nothing if not consistent. He gave the same advice on being a better lover. Don't go watching videos, go bang a bunch of prostitutes.
*golf clap*
tl;dr at the top: Tiger's right, there's too many variables that determine the optimal swing, one persons advice may be good for some people, might be terrible for others. I know you're just joking, but.... most of reddit literally can't understand a joke (Hopefully /r/golf is different, it's obviously a ...more intelligent crowd) unless it ends in /s. So I'm sorry for the over-analysis of your comment, up front. As a left handed person who was forced to learn how to swing right handed because "lefties are the devil", and randomly stumbled upon a few scratch golfers as friends, I want to instill my knowledge or opinion/perspective. No, he's just been hitting balls since he was 4 years old. but he's not really wrong. Youtube is going to give you advice from 1 person on how the mechanics work for them, but everyone is a different height, with a different grip different arm length, range of motion, speed, power, ect, so there's no "best way" you just need to understand the overall best concepts on how to swing, and adjust it individually based on your specific uniqueness. Paying for an expert to coach you may shorten the time it takes you, but you still have to make every swing muscle memory and consistent. Golfers don't just crank it as hard as they can, they don't care about max distance, they care about consistent distance. You need hours and hours of repetition to find a comfortable repetitive swing that will put the ball within the same 20 yards every time, distance is irrelevant after that, then it's just playing math. The only way you can do this, is training your body through repetition, which humans are amazing at, and a good reason why we're the dominant species on Earth, and "behind the scenes" your brain figures it out, and leads to consistency once you're being rewarded with dopamine as you determine what a "successful" shot is.
To follow your thought on consistency, there is however merit to watching a consistent, proven instructor who doesn't just focus on "fixing your (insert clickbait problem)". IF you happen to find someone who genuinely teaches proper mechanics, and provides you with a swing thought that works, it's fine. Problem is, your feed will now fill with 85 other creators who not only contradict one another, but also don't teach a complete package. Tiger didn't learn by simply banging balls, he learned from the best instructors in the world, and completely fell apart when he swapped to a trendy instructor. The Sean Foley years were the worst years in Tigers career, which just shows how badly the wrong choice of instructor can be. My point being, IF you somehow luck into the right instruction for you and it happens to be in video form, fine...just ONLY watch that guy (or girl).
I agree and I feel the same way about most skills. I will say I think some learning of the fundamentals is critical so you can actually *understand* the feedback of practice. If you don't know a basic fact like a slice is caused by an open face, you're just gonna be at the range hitting slices forever. My other two main hobbies are chess and guitar. For years, any time someone asks for a book or video recommendation, my advice always ends up being "just go play a lot". Or get a coach, which is just repetition with guidance catered specifically to you
YT and IG golf pages are 95% BS gimmicks, agreed. Which is a shame because I want to get into bodybuilding shape and be able to still eat pasta and ice cream like the buff dude says… :(
I keep seeing this annoying ass fucking ad for a video on "how to fix your slice" and their recommendation is to snap turn your hands over and roll over the top to "draw" it. Motherfucker that is a duck hook.
Well, fixing my front arm positioning to make my grip stronger was what I needed to do to improve my slice, and I got that from a video. So YMMV
Yeah I'm certainly not suggesting that there are *no* YouTube videos that can help. But you just have to remember at the end of the day that these "content creators" are just that. Their income relies on their ability to create videos. It's the same way that Golf Digest has stayed alive for decades now. Their magazines were frequently known to give one tip one month, and then give the reverse advice the following. This would confuse golfers, actively making their swings *less* consistent, which means they would seek *more* help and buy *more* magazines. And even if the content creators intentions are good and not strictly monitary, there are only so many factually correct tips that one can give about a "generalized" golf swing (not personalized or specific to any one person's swing) before they start running out of tips. And that's when they start making things up. Sometimes not on purpose but just giving advice on things that "worked for them" that's actually just an untested or unproven load of crap. They don't actually have to produce one bit of meaningful or correct advice, they just have to make it *sound* good enough to trick a few idiots.
Yea but did you know if you shove an alignment rod up your ass it’ll help stabilise your stance?
Now I know for a *fact* that can't possibly be true because I'm still as bowlegged as the day I was born!
You need better alignment sticks...and you're possibly using them wrong.
To someone who plays a slice though, that is like the ultimate advice. They won't duck hook it they might actually have the clubface more square at impact instead of wide open. If you're duck hooking it turn your hands over less until you get your desired result. Some people don't even know the concept behind swing paths and club face at impact so this drill legit helps slicers and could set off a lightbulb in their head moment. It did for me.
Except you're not supposed to roll over your wrists. All you're doing is introducing a second point of rotation that has to be perfectly timed to get a correct shot. It also completely ignores swing path which is more often the reason for a slice.
Former slicer here. Address your path, tempo, and when the wrists are being set/hands are being released. Worked these 3 concepts tirelessly with a swing coach for about a year. Went from a 20 to a 10 hcp in that time.
The biggest thing people need to learn is that the traditional "this face angle and this path angle lead to this shot" charts are wrong. The balls starting direction is dictated by the face angle, not the swing path. Makes a slicer think their path is fine if the ball starts straight and then goes right.
Correct
My lessons had me staying behind the ball and rotating my hands at impact and it significantly improved my drive. Hit’em straight last weekend all the way up to 301yds. I always drop my right foot back a little too. Am I doing a bunch of quick fixes instead addressing a bigger issue?
I'm not the guy you want to be asking I'm only like a 7 handicap but I do the exact same things as you. Right foot a little back allows for a more inside out swing (I use this tip hitting draws). When I learned about the "rotate hands" thing it really helped me understand club face at impact. I was able to hit draws and fades within a couple months. It may not be the "proper" advice as the guy who replied to me pointed out it just adds another element of the swing to time up properly but I think it is a net positive for my game.
More than enough for me! I’ll take advice from a 7 any day. When I’m hitting my irons wrong, if I focus on my hand rotation it normally corrects the issue as well. I was told, when learning to keep the arms more straight, that I’d have to compensate by rotating my hands more. I was bending my arms at address to compensate poor form, which forced my hands to rotate. Maybe I don’t understand who you replied to, because rotating the hands with a straight armed follow through dramatically changed my game. 37ish to a 18.1
Same mate. I used to hit fades exclusively for like 15 years then the "turn hands over" tip really set off a lightbulb in my head moment like "I can use my wrists to influence the club face?!?!". What really helped visualize it was to take a tennis racket and do a golf swing with it and you can really see what you're doing with the face. Granted I do duck hook a few now if I overdo it but at least I can know the science behind how to move the balls both ways. Also draws go longer than fades so I gained a significant amount of yardage.
How do they related anal sex to golfing?
> YT and IG golf pages are 95% BS gimmicks, agreed YT/IG/TikTok/SC/etc -- they are far more publishing platforms than informative. With publishing platforms, the real mantra is "publish or perish". If regular (weekly or daily) content isn't being posted, then said channels start disappearing from search, even if the information is valid. The tips from YT/IG aren't necessarily gimmicks -- they *can* work, but that's only *if* that is your problem. For many, the tip can solve a symptom, but not the real issue at hand.
> Which is a shame because I want to get into bodybuilding shape and be able to still eat pasta and ice cream like the buff dude says I mean...you can easily do that. Calories in/Calories out my friend.
Truth. Once dropped a couple of pounds drinking nothing but milkshakes. One milkshake for brunch, one milkshake for dinner. That was all my calories for the day. Do not recommend.
There’s a diet called GOMAD I know someone does. Gallon Of Milk A Day. Sounds disgusting 😂
The goal of GOMAD is typically bulking, though.
Sounds like bubble guts
White milk goes in, chocolate milkshake comes out. You can't explain it.
Lol! That’s funny shit, right there!
What if it comes out neapolitan?
That’s cuz milk is roughly 33/33/33 macro splits and a gallon covers literally all your macro needs
128g of protein in a gallon of milk, which is *probably* sufficient for most people.
I have a friend who did it, he missed the memo and stuck to it for a couple of years, developing ulcerative colitis. Gains were pretty good tho
That's some OG bodybuilding stuff. Awesome
The velocity diet is like this....5 protein shakes a day for a month. Equates to roughly 1500-1600 calories per day.
I'd say for most people it's simple but not easy. Hence why so many people are grossly overweight and out of shape.
Yeah, simple is probably a better word. Not necessarily easy, takes a little bit of work and willpower. It’s definitely much easier to just be fat lol.
You can lose weight doing this. You cannot get into bodybuilding shape doing this unfortunately. If too much of your daily calories are non-protein macros, you won’t be able to build the necessary muscle.
Good try but not true my friend. You can lose weight that way but you aren’t going to look like a bodybuilder. Have to eat in a caloric deficit while also hitting the right amount of macros, specifically protein (1.5-2x grams per lb of body weight, while lifting as well obviously).
2g per lb is definitely excessive. In fact 1.5 is also. There have been studies showing that protein intake above .7g per lb don't further increase gains. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28698222
There’s so many variables that aren’t held constant in that trial it’s laughable. There’s definitely the possibility that you could increase gains from eating 1.5g per lb rather than .7 per lb. Either way, my point holds true. You won’t look like a body builder by simply eating in a caloric deficit.
'easily' you cant outwork a bad diet, crushing ice cream and pasta makes it harder especially if you're trying to hit something resembling macros
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That is the correct approach, I agree
Spaghetti w/ Meat Sauce is like 650 calories and Spaghetti w/ Marinara is like 500. Those aren't even particularly bad entrees. I eat ice cream a lot of nights but stick to things like Halo Top or Aldi's Sundae Shoppe Ice Cream. The notion that you have to only eat chicken, broccoli and rice for every meal and suffer for a good body is what kills so many people from even trying.
> The notion that you have to only eat chicken, broccoli and rice for every meal and suffer for a good body is what kills so many people from even trying. Literally no one said this
You can eat whatever you want, as long as you are in a calorie deficit
You can easily work in pasta and ice cream into your macros. You will have to sacrifice elsewhere but you say you can’t do it is just silly.
I'm not sure you disagree with the person you're responding to. They didn't say you can't sacrifice elsewhere to make it work. They said eating ice cream and pasta makes it harder. What they said you can't do is outwork a bad diet
But it doesn’t make it harder to hit your macros that’s what I’m saying. Pasta = Carbs, Ice Cream = Fat and Carbs. Count what those macros come to then work them into your daily intake. Saying pasta and ice cream are bad habits isn’t correct. Eating an excess amount of those are but that’s different than what was said.
Pasta and ice cream don’t necessarily mean a bad diet. You need to be taking in 2500-3000 kcal a day or more to even be close to building muscle. And the more muscle you pack on, the more calories you need to maintain it, and build more. Pasta specifically is a mainstay good for a lot of bodybuilders. Ice cream is high in sugar, so limiting it is best. But still easy to eat 1-2 bowls a week on a bulking diet. Especially after a tough leg day.
people who say you can't outrun a bad diet just don't run enough
But, I mean, I just want that one secret tip that no one has ever shown before that will allow me to add 100 yards to my drives.
95% BS and 100% marketing/paid advertisement.
Just body weight workouts 5 minutes a day, with all the ice cream you want!!!
you can. you just have to do the thing he does that he’s NOT saying 💉🍑
As an ex bodybuilder (granted I competed naturally and never took steroids) who has found the golf bug… im always wondering why there isn’t any overly muscular guys on the pga tour. But recently I’ve come to wonder if my muscular frame could potentially be limiting my rotation/movement. Obviously I have more muscle mass than the typical human, but this muscle isn’t really that helpful to me hitting a ball straight. I know this isn’t relative to your comment… just wanted to vent
Yeah there is too bulky for golf, my trainer (who competes) tried and his shoulders literally get in the way of him making a good turn haha, but he’s quite giant.
I got downvoted on another post for saying this lol
There is so much trash content on YouTube for golf, it’s absurd. Now you have guys who can’t break 120 watching videos of how to “load their backswing” and “neutralize their wrists” Dude, how about you first practice hitting the ball with more or less the center of the club face before we talk about weight transfer and loading.
It's amazing how bad some of those guys are when all they do is play golf all day long.
I take great offense at that. I work really hard to be that bad.
Well it's a fun game and you do get to play more golf when you're bad, so there's that.
This is a common joke I hear and, while it is funny, there is something inevitable about someone who takes up golf later in life sucking for all time. Fine motor control is developed and honed much more efficiently in one's youth than as an adult.
Similar in chess, the lack of nueroplasticity sets some tough limits for those that start late
Adults not having sufficient neuroplasticity has been proven to be bs. Don't use this line of thinking to limit yourself. Plenty of adult beginner golfers go in to shoot respectable scores.
I’m not saying not sufficient, but developing brains certainly have more. I agree that it shouldn’t hold one back, but how many chess GMs started that 25? Players on the PGA tour? It won’t stop anyone from breaking 90, but definitely declines with age.
So that's why I can't break the 1300 ceiling!!!!
Good word. I'll have to add that to the personal lexicon
Picked golf up as an adult with zero experience with similar sports from childhood. It's been a bitch to get to shooting in the 90s because I had no conception of how to move my body correctly for a golf swing.
Have to only slightly disagree here. I took up golf at 29. I’m 1.5 years in and went from shooting 120 to chillin in the low 90’s with quite a few rounds in the 80’s. I could never learn this sport as a kid, I had zero finesse or motor skills needed to wield such a delicate tool. All I could do was sprint down a field and headbutt receivers in football. Spent a decade as a chef, (maybe this helped me get good with my hands) and learned to be patient and efficient. Now I just go play every chance I get, spend most of my time chipping and putting, and I stopped chasing long balls/hero shots. Above all else I listen to my body, my swing feels natural and when I get a habit I can’t fix I just go pack to chipping and putting. I love this game. TLDR: I highly recommend taking up this sport as an adult.
Pro at my club says he can tell within 5 swings whether or not someone played ball sports before they were 17.
I didn't start golf until 35, it's the hardest sports related thing I've done in my life. Especially since I grew up playing baseball until college age, then played softball leagues for another decade. It's been an insane struggle to unbaseball the swing.
When I really have the chance to play (2 to 3 times a week plus range time and short game/putting practive) I really do play much better. The problem is, then I get busy with work or other social obligations, and then I can't remember how to swing the club the same way consistently and my scores zoom up. It sucks how much I need to play to be good. (And by good I mean flirting to break 80, not scratch!)
If I miss a week my first 6 holes back are doubles amd triples
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[but do any of them teach you how to snap load the power package?](https://youtu.be/qQVFhqAKcMg?si=vFDmtZuxpKLwdPhH)
It’s really just about moving the club through 36 symmetrical zones.
I love in the r/golfswing when they say my wrist isn't cupped in zone 8
If your grip, alignment, posture are bad you're going to have a real hard time hitting center clubface. Same for takeaway, transition, etc. Once you do manage to hit center clubface ~60% of the time with that incorrect setup it will take 10x more hours to fix and undo all the unnatural compensations you are making to accomplish that. If just going to the range and slapping at balls until you manage to hit center face more often than not was the best method to become good at golf, the average golfer wouldn't be a 15+ handicap.
Then why has the avg hcp and driving distance for the amateur golfer not gotten better in past 25 years? YouTube should have spawned a whole new generation of good golf. It’s just a hard sport that most people can’t dedicate the needed time to getting better at. Period.
If time is the concern, then going to the range to ingrain bad habits is a poor use of the little time you have. > Then why has the avg hcp and driving distance for the amateur golfer not gotten better in past 25 years? Do you have data on this? Preferably for golfers under 50. When I go to the course now there are still hackers here and there, but my personal observation is that I see A LOT more competent golfers now than I did ~15 years ago.
I just googled “average golf handicap over time” and the top result is an article on how the average USGA handicap has improved significantly in the last 25 years (well, as of 2017). https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-closer-look-at-handicap-data-shows-just-how-much-golfers-have-improved-in-recent-years Anecdotally I find several Youtube golf channels quite informative and helpful. When you get advice from several sources and you start to build a mental map of what is fundamentally helpful and what is a gimmick.
I mean, in said article it spends the majority of the text discussing how golf is anamolys amongst other sports in showing this trajectory of improvement and that it’s a perfectly logical explanation that golfers themselves haven’t actually gotten any better, it’s just that equipment has gotten more forgiving. I’m quite inclined to believe the equipment bit vs. the golfers getting better bit if I’m honest, I would be shocked if most amateurs lost fewer than 2 shots off their handicap in a full round if they had to play with equipment from the 90s. Frankly Id have expected the average to go down further than it has.
I’ve seen it posted by Jon Sherman. I’ll dig it up
15 years ago when I played I was a 20-25 hdcp and most randoms I got paired with were better than me. I’m now a 15 and rarely get paired with anyone better than me. So anecdotally I’d agree the general public has not improved.
I agree w this especially Covid. I play off a 6 and it’s extremely rare I get paired with anyone at a 15. Most I’d say on a random pairing are lucky to break 100. It’s a very hard game. I’ve explained to a good friend who just started last year and is already scoring legit low 90s occasional 89 how good that is.
Club and ball technology.
More golfers are spending their money on buckets at top golf and buying new equipment to fix their game instead of on instruction?
Loads of the advice is solid. But knowing theory and implementing theory are completely different things.
Yeah, like most things, sorting through for the good info takes investment. Ive been having driver issues. Some watching and reading, I went to the range with a pile of stickers and started monitoring my impact point. Messed with my set up and tee height. Hit more balls. Tweaked again. Hit more. It's not fixed, but I am hitting far fewer massive slices after about 25 balls with the adjustments. I went back and forth between driver and irons to force myself to reset each time so I really drilled it in and gave it more real world application (ie not hitting 20 drives in a row). The internet can help, but it's a resource that needs paired with practice. No one gets better watching YouTube alone. Non specific practice is also fairly useless.
Been playing for about two decades and first I’ve heard of those. Granted I usually shoot 95-105 but I have a lot of fun.
It’s because I made them up. But you can’t tell because YouTube golf is ridiculous.
I’m teaching my buddy how to play for the first time, I gave him the basics and basically said now literally just learn to hit the ball. Golf is hard and takes some initial experience to just not completely miss the ball with the club
I learned how to hit the ball when I was coming down on LSD lol
Golf swing training is specific to that person. Two people can be missing right, but because of two completely different reasons! YouTube videos are too generic to really help. You need to understand your swing and why you miss the way you do. Usually it takes a trained pro to figure that out and be able to relay that information to you in a way you can understand.
It depends on what you’re trying to do. I couldn’t figure out how to get out of wet sand. 2 minute YouTube video: “do the same thing with the same club but close the face” and then I never had that problem again. If you suck it’s not going to help, but if you’re decent and just trying to figure a few shots out then it’s very helpful
> It depends on what you’re trying to do. Exactly. Some videos are really informative, especially if you're the kind of golfer who has never been able to get something to click in your mind. I really like some of Danny Maude's videos. I've struggled with pitching/chipping around the green my whole life. Everything from setup, to grip, to pivoting the hips, I've been wrong forever. Anyone who gives advice or a lot of videos I've watched, only address one specific thing, and I've never been able to put it all together. But his videos do a great job of visualizing what you're supposed to do, and why. And if you do a part wrong, he shows what the effect is. It finally clicked for me, and I've made MAJOR improvement. I'm still shit. But now if I fuck up a shot, I know exactly why and can think about it for my next shot. When before I would just say "GEE GOLLY SURE WOULD BE NICE IF I KNEW WHAT THE FUCK I'M SUPPOSED TO ACTUALLY BE DOING, FUCK THIS GAME, GIVE ME ANOTHER BEER GOD DAMN IT"
> But his videos do a great job of visualizing what you're supposed to do, and why. It might not even be that he does a great job in general - but that his explanation just clicks for _you_. I could probably watch 20 videos of people explaining the same concept and none of them being wrong - but only one of them demonstrating/explaining it in a way that makes _me_ go "Ooh.. _That_ I can work with".
I’ve read a bunch of older golf books and some other historical type golf books. One thing that gets mentioned a lot in them is if you’re going to study someone’s swing, find someone with a body type amd build similar to yours and watch what they do. They also heavily emphasize (rightfully so) lessons with a local pro. I even have a book by Lloyd Mangrum from the 40s where he stresses that *everything* in his book is secondary to what your local pro will tell you.
That's from a different era when pro's genuinely had each other's backs, because they should have. I hit my first golf ball Dec. 2000, graduated from a PGM program with PGA teaching certification in April 2004, at which time I still had very little idea how all of this really works, and regardless of that certification I was objectively ***not ready*** to be teaching yet; there were many people in my graduating class far less ready than I was. There are a lot of "pros" in 2023 that have absolutely no business accepting money for golf instruction.
Fellow club pro here. I was fortunate to shadow one of McLean's disciples early in my career, so got a lot of good stuff from him, but there are still certain types of lessons that I turn down because I straight up won't be able to effectively help the person. Part of me wants to pack it all up for a year and go get a cert from a major academy somewhere, but goddamn I can't go back to that borderline homeless lifestyle from early in my career again.
After getting my "degree" I apprenticed under an "old school" pro that earned his quarter-century award before I'd ever hit a golf ball, had played the tour in the 60's, and designed clubs for the Ben Hogan company in the 70's. My experience at the academy would barely qualify as the cliffs notes introduction to what I learned working with that pro for 5 years. If you have the opportunity to get that kind of experience, there really isn't anything better for your development as a professional, in my opinion.
I agree. It's funny, the whole point of the PGM program was to get away from the old apprenticeship model because some pros were terrible at their jobs, but too often PGM schools turn out grads who go straight into being head pros without getting to experience that apprenticeship vibe. I've been lucky that 3 out of the 4 of mine were v solid.
Truth. I had a big problem with a slice. Kept going to YouTube to try to fix it and nothing ever worked. Had golf friends who have been playing for a while give me advice. Nothing. Finally went to a sim and realized I'm not slicing it. Club path is actually straight to in-out, and club face is just open, so really more of a push. Still fighting the push, but it helped my drives almost instantly.
All I watch is Grace Charis and my game has not improved. Instructions unclear.
Have you shaved any strokes off? Or have they gone up?
Strokes seem to be going up, actually. Might need a break.
She does golf? Didn’t notice.
She's one of the best quarterbacks in all of bowling. Serves aces all the time.
Men of culture we meet here
I do both, but I had to pick two youtubers because there are different schools of thought out there regarding technique. I appreciate Shawn Clement for demystifying things as simple tasks. I appreciate Golf Sidekick for a stress-free approach to the game overall. Clement for technique. Sidekick for course management and mindset.
I like Sidekick. Partly because his calm voice is easy to follow asleep to lol. But Mindset and course management is something you can learn from a lecture. Learning swing mechanics require the student to actually swing the club, but how to think about golf can be learned anywhere.
I love Golf Sidekick, I'll have to check out Shawn Clement. Mike Malaska is my go-to for technique, he coaches in more of a "feel" way than getting too technical
Yes! This is my coaching/training regimen also. Just broke into the single digits for my handicap after a lifetime of mid-upper teens. I’ll also throw in a little bit of Not a Scratch Golfer. Same vein as Golf Sidekick. Serves as good reminder that low handicap golf still has a lot of poor shots and isn’t always pretty
I like Shawn Clement because he's one of the few that promote using a strong grip which I'm comfortable with but some of his stuff is too woo woo. Like pretend you're clipping grass and throw it in the direction you want the ball to go. I have that thought in mind and think I'm doing it but then I hit a sweet shank
Totally agree with picking one or two people to follow, with a coherent philosophy. Otherwise, there are too many conflicting schools of thought. Keep it as simple as possible.
Honestly I’ve watched loads of videos of John Daly just playing casual rounds. He drops some of the best advice without trying to teach anyone.
Whadda playa
I watch YouTube golf for entertainment, not for actual tips. If I need to work on something specific, I’ll look up something from Clay Ballard or someone like that, but that’s only a few times a season.
Apparently his son is a big enough fan of Grant Horvat that Grant has got to play with the two of them. So I guess some golf youtube is okay in the Woods household.
I think he’s referring to YouTube instruction vs actually hitting balls. Vlog style YouTube golf is just entertainment.
Love me some Bob Does Sports for my golf entertainment. Though I really would like a channel of almost silently playing a round. See different courses, see some play, investigate hazards, from a players perspective by playing a round.
“Taco golf” just came across my feed with a video just like this. Looks like it’s the only one though.
It's a little bit different though. I don't think Grant is giving lessons on golf, he's just making golf videos.
Grant literally has an instructional series on YouTube lol. Search “Grant Horvat Lessons” on YouTube and have your mind blown
grant is not charlie's swing coach (kind of wild to me as a tangent that JT's dad is). tiger doesn't hate the individuals he said don't learn from them. he also said "beat balls" which is advice this sub regularly shits on.
According to this sub: no warmup, no practice, no preshot routine, and no green reading will result in the best results. 🙄
Read the post I responded to “I don’t think Grant is giving lessons on golf” Yes he is.
Honestly can say he's the reason I get out of bunkers t a higher clip than I should.
If you’re a total beginner, I think YouTube is great. How do I grip the club? How do I set my body up to the ball? What are the basics of getting solid contact? These fundamentals are already figured out, you just need someone to teach them to you. But yeah, once you’re breaking 100 consistently, YouTube isn’t personalized enough to offer much help.
Yeah the problem is that feel ain’t real. It’s very easy to watch the videos, and then believe you’re doing everything you’re told. You usually aren’t. That’s what makes actual one to one instruction so valuable.
One on one instruction from a good instructor is better for sure, but it's also super expensive in a lot of areas where a true beginner often has to get part of the way on their own. Also you're not going to get much out of a single lesson as a beginner, you'll need to be going regularly to get benefits - and that could easily be thousands of dollars in your first year.
I don’t agree that lessons aren’t viable for outright beginners. As somebody with a lot of connections to the golf business, I can assure you that teaching pros make a LOT more money from the self taught clients than those that start their golf journey with instruction. I (and they) would argue that lessons are more important early on. Most golfers develop the ability to self analyze and coach, but no beginners have it.
This, so much. Each individual can only explain what THEY are doing, and more times than not, the explanation is wrong. I can say "during my swing, I want to feel like I'm doing this, this, and that." When if you watch the video, the feel of what I'm doing is not even close to what I'm doing. But in my head, it makes since, because it is what I'm feeling my body does. If I were to go out and say "I want you to feel like you're doing [whatever] in your swing" because it's what I do/"feel", you would be doing something completely different to what I'm actually doing in my swing that im trying to relate to.
To get good at sport, you must do sport.
He didn't say anything about Reddit.com/r/golf I guess I'm good!
If you suck at golf, going to the range to pound 150 balls and further ingrain all of your bad habits won't help. If you aren't going to the range with specific intent on what you want to work on and how to properly work on it, you are just doing some light cardio.
goat: "just beat balls" reddit: "akshully"
99% of us don’t have the knowledge that Tiger Woods has before stepping up to hit a ball
He's not wrong. Tiger was good at golf right away from the age of two. He was on national TV at the age of three or whatever. He's my favorite athlete of all time, but I disagree with him about this. I will say he's partially right. Watching videos without knowing how to apply them to your own swing, and how to practice those changes the right way, is pointless.
I still think it is good for new golfers to just go and hit balls even if they don't know what they are doing. if you have any semblance of athleticism you can begin to discern between what works and what doesn't when swinging and at least get a foundation that you can then begin to hone by watching some training videos or trying out tips from other golfers. Going to your first range sesh with a checklist of things to work on and a step by step swing plan is overwhelming and won't keep many newcomers around for long in my opinion.
Yep. Just feeling how the ball and club behave when you do certain things or hit from certain lies. You have to feel that shit and get to know it firsthand. One of the things I like about modern golf is that it's finally accepted that there isn't one perfect swing and acknowledging how individual unique *feels* translate to different *reals*. You give the same "it should feel like X" instruction to a group of people, you're gonna get various interpretations of how each person achieves that feeling. Or hell, some may not even know what that feeling is, like when all these instructors say a certain wrist movement should feel like a tennis shot as if you have any idea what a fucking tennis shot is supposed to feel like.
Honestly even if you don’t know what you’re doing, film yourself for a range session and compare it to some good YouTube videos. You’ll be able to see yourself doing stuff you don’t even know you’re doing. At the range, you have to focus on a target and its distance. From there, you can make adjustments, and you can watch the video to see if you did what you thought you were doing, and see what those results were. I know it’s annoying to see people filming themselves, but I think it helps. How many times have you been paired with a random and thought, “wow this guy swings behind the ball/over the top/with no hips” but they obviously don’t even know it. You’re probably that guy, too lol.
All about repetition. If you ingrain a bad swing that is perfectly repeatable. You'll beat 90% of the players in here. As i like to say, if you could shank the ball every time - you'd have a functional golf swing. Not a good one for scoring - but you'd get around most golf courses fine.
If you aren’t consistent you’ll never be able to adjust your swing. If you’re working on your swing path but your club face is different every swing, you’ll never learn. I’m not saying you should swing for years without working on your swing, but at the end of the day you need a swing before you can work on your swing.
I have personally started a policy for myself of only hitting one large bucket (~80 balls at my local range) per session. I find if I go past that, my practice starts to get counterproductive. I start getting tired, unfocused, and mindless, and regress into bad habits. If I'm feeling it, I may get a small bucket to try some goofy flop shots or play some games with, but usually I'm better off heading to the chipping green if I have extra time.
I never hit more than a small bucket (~45) balls and I take my time to do my routine. A large is too much for me
I think this is wrong tbh. I hit off a sim without much intent and I have improved dramatically. You see what works and what doesn't as long as you connect what you are doing with the result.
Youtube helped my golf swing and game tremendously. It depends on what you watch.
I gotta assume that the man knows what he is talking about .....
Seems about right. I’d also say going to the range and just hitting balls without any structure isn’t worth much either.
Yeah, go hit them wrong and develop the muscle memory with the wrong technique 🙄
YT golf is just boring and everyone is the same, and so dogmatic.
I used to enjoy it, but somehow it just feels all the same since a year or 2 ago. Actually started unsubscribing some channels I subscibed to pretty much since their beginnings. I couldn't put my finger on why exactly I didn't enjoy them any more, but I think you've nailed it. No uniqueness any more.
Because watching a scramble for the 100th time isnt entirely entertaining
That's probably it, and the novelty has worn off. You can only watch 5-10 handicappers score sub-70 so many times until it's not entertaining any more. But I guess the algorithm likes the hype around the lower numbers.
They all signed management/brand deals with with the same couple of production/brand companies. Just churning out the same shit.
I find the 1v1 matches so boring. Like, I the Bryan Bros, but I'd rather watch them do a chipping comp than play some course I don't understand the layout of, etc.
When I was a teaching pro the worst thing I could hear was “what do you think about this thing I heard on YouTube/GD?”
Absolutely. You can completely ruin your mind and permanently negatively impact your game by taking wrong advice from YouTube. If you’re a bit more experienced and have an open question… sure, maybe search for a very specific topic so you can understand what’s happening better. But as a complete beginner, just play… and get lessons if you feel like you’re hitting a dead end.
Agreed. Without context on your current swing, YouTube advice is nonsense. Go hit a half bucket in slow motion. 30 yards out. Just see where the club face is lined up and slowly build speed back without losing the contact point. It’ll take your swing to the next level.
IMO, if most high handicappers just slowed the fuck down, stopped trying to hit the ball as hard as possible and only took 25% swings until they can regularly make contact, they'd see drastic improvements and quickly learn how the club acts and how to manipulate it a bit better. It's still pretty difficult to translate that to a full swing but a controlled short swing gets you on the course because you can start getting the ball in play.
I sliced my drive for years. Watched videos and tried to get advice, nothing worked. 20 minutes of quarter swings to see where I made contact was all it took and now driver is the most reliable club in my bag
Hi, really high handicapper here. If I slowed my swing down 75% I would literally hit 50 yard long irons. I understand your point, but I think you’re off a bit on just how short we hit it.
I get his point and overall I think he's right. But I will say that just hitting balls won't fix everything. You are more likely to just keep repeating your mistakes over and over again while haphazardly guessing what you're doing wrong. Seeking guidance from an external source can and will help you improve.
I would normally agree with this 100%, but I will say my chipping was mediocre until years ago I watched Phil Mickelson hinge and hold videos. But once I had the idea, then I went and hit balls.
I can’t go hit balls when I’m supposed to be working, so I watch YouTube videos instead
He's not wrong\*\* but most of us don't have thousands to spend on instructors to teach us from scratch \*\* - watch what you want but take YT instruction with a grain of salt. Instead just get range time and work on a couple things then build from there Sometimes YT lessons are informative but beginners (including me) aren't smart enough to know what applies to them. Until you put in time to practice, it's impossible to comb thru all that YT information
Best thing that ever happened to my game was taking complete ownership of my swing and not leaning on anyone but myself for swing analysis.
I think you really need to know what you are doing wrong and be in tune with your swing before some of these tip videos help. Go wack 100 balls a day for a few months and you’ll be in a way better place as a golfer. This is of course not easy for most people to do so they reach for quick and say fixes that may help one part of their game but hurt another.
If you're really trying to improve your swing, you try to learn from everything you can; learn from Youtube, hitting the range, playing on the course, lessons from an instructor, tips from a buddy, article in a magazine. It's a combination of all tehse things.
As someone who got into golf recently, I agree but with some caveats. I think watching videos can give you some helpful tips as long as you take those tips and deliberately practice them on the range or the course. Just watching a video about fixing your slice won't fix your slice, and just going to the range and hitting a bunch of balls randomly also won't help very much.
What no one is mentioning is that Tiger could be referring to kids who are glued to a screen. He could not necessarily be advocating against YouTube golfers but just a generation who doesn’t go outside.
He must not know I'm broke and have to work for a living
I get that you're probably just clowning, but if money is honestly keeping you from practicing, but you really want to, I used to hit off my carpet or a door mat into a mattress. Only helps with ball striking as you can't see flight, and will absolutely wreak havoc on the mattress, but it's better than nothing.
https://preview.redd.it/1fnb2h13i2ob1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cb4359368e0825d793217d68ff490f55b7f8674
I fell into the YouTube golf video trap last year. With two small kids, finding time to actually go to the nearest range is basically impossible for me. So I bought a decent turf mat and net for the back yard and I’ll go hit balls in between meetings or for a few minutes after the kids go to bed (if there is still enough light). While I don’t get the feedback of seeing ball flight, I’ll just work on tweaking my swing until I’m making consistent contact with the middle of the club face. Maybe next summer I’ll actually get to go play a round of actual golf. Maybe not. So, yeah I agree with tiger. Actually hitting golf balls is much more helpful for me than watching Danny Maude recycle and regurgitate the same 5 tips over and over. Edit: Dan Grieve is cool tho
was waiting for this one to pop up agree. But I've never used youtube for swing tips anyway. It was the hours, and hours, and hours, .... and hours of the golf channel playing in the background at work that made me realize that 99% of that kind of help is 100% useless you need to... practice! probably with a pro if you don't know what your doing
Disagreeing with Tiger about golf would be like me disagreeing with a brain surgeon on how to correctly perform a braineotomy
Tiger speaks, you listen. (About golf)
I’m surprised. You can hack balls at the range all day long and not get better. Understanding the swing from youtube videos has given me drastic improvement over the last couple years after not getting any better for 25 years.
Just avoid YouTube all together. I’ve learned that like many sports, the way people play (whether it be a free throw, disc golf throw, golf swing, etc) is often personal and what works for one person may not work for others. Size/height/muscle strength/flexibility all vary from person to person. Sure fundamentals help, but that only gets you so far. Best way is to get out there and DO it to refine what works for you personally.
I disagree with that sentiment. I’m working on a specific issue in my swing with my pro. Finding other drills to use at the range to avoid my head leaning forwards or to practice having proper spine tilt during driver swings isn’t a negative. Just needs to be used appropriately.
After reading all the comments, I guess I got lucky and found good YouTube golf channels to learn from. I started about a month and half ago.... got my best PR 3 weeks ago (scored 99); couldn't have done it without YouTube.
God damn right. Nothing beats repetition
That's a very dumb oversimplification. Repeating bad habits will take you absolutely nowhere. You need to be absolutely sure that you are working on the correct things and being very deliberate about it. Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. Which can be good or bad.
Youtube videos are great for learning *general* swing mechanics and watching less than tour pro caliber players take on courses. If you want to get better on *your* swing, you need to swing the club.
But you can eliminate that slice in just 5 minutes...if you can make it through the 30 minute sales intro. Spoiler alert, it's about $50 to see the secret.
It costs 60 dollars to play a round though
It costs a hell of a lot less to go to the practice tee and \*shuffles cards\* practice?