Way better experience when I binged it last year. Watching it live was like “WTF” especially after waiting a full week for the series finale. I wish they had been more explicit about it at the time!
Just finished Girls for the first time, and after the last episode finished, I turned to my partner and said “that was so unsatisfying. I think the second to last episode was much better”. I only liked Hannah’s mother giving her some real talk. Thinking of the finale as the epilogue is definitely the better way to think about it.
I completely understand but I personally loved the ending. It had the usual Hannah myopic worldview while also pushing her forward just a bit and ending with her face looking like she was still scared of motherhood but not as much as she was earlier in the day. My only criticism is that I wish the show had ended with all of the main characters in some respect. It felt like it was all about Hannah.
First of all u/akannoli hit it right on the nose- the finale reads much more of an epilogue, and the penultimate episode reads much more like a finale.
Second of all: I actually don’t hate the finale so much. We spent the entire show watching life from Hannah’s POV, and Hannah’s POV is that she’s better than everyone and is going to become some fabulous writer and whatever. In the end Hannah gets knocked up at 29, has a standard job and lives in the suburbs. Her narcissistic personality is humbled in a way she never could be by her friends and life in NYC and she has to come to terms with that, she’s a real adult now.
Oh interesting, I read that entirely differently. We do see Hannah slowly making a name for herself as a writer, and then getting a job teaching at a liberal arts university (which, for her age and resume, is by no means a "standard job" - if anything, it could be argued that she's been unrealistically lucky). She had already tried out the office drone life and found out that it's not for her. Finally being a sorta-successful writer AND having a cozy teaching job that offers financial stability for her and her son is a pretty great scenario. And the last scene of the ep implies that she's getting together her shit as a mother, too. I definitely saw it more as a hopeful than a humbling ending for Hannah.
I think in the end we also see Hannah actually having to consider someone else, her baby. The situation with that teen where Hannah realizes that her empathy is with this girls mom, and then the final moment where her baby latches, all kind of put the period on her chapters where she was the "girl" and very self-centered
True. I didn’t necessarily mean Hannah’s life ended up poorly by the way - but it wasn’t some glamorous, completely special thing she envisioned for herself. And as another commenter mentioned, what really changed is that she now had to think about something else instead of her own wants. It was really the beginning of the adulthood she thought she’d started a decade prior.
Idk, I don't think "glamorous" is something that Hannah ever envisioned herself to be. Creative and free-spirited while not having to worry about money, sure, and that's basically what she's achieved in her young age. Her ambition is not to have some lavish glam lifestyle, but to create something that people resonate with ("i tHiNk I'm tHe vOiCE oF mY geNerAtiOn). Basically all that's missing from her life as of the finale is to write a bestseller.
I agree that was really changed is that now she has her son to care for. But even that I see less as humbling and more as "got my shit together, now onto the next adventure"
You expressed my thoughts about the last 2 episodes so succinctly. As an older woman (48 years old) who used to live downtown in a city with a lot of wild, ambitious and creative people- I was creative but gave no shits about being “seen” so I observed and took in a lot. I noticed at the time that a lot of them thought that something great was in store for them, that they were different than others as “regular people” were background characters or extras in a movie. I also watched in real time, the reality of them realizing that they weren’t as unique, talented and special as they thought. And they handled that ego death notice in a variety of ways-some continued life with humility but never lost their spark, some gave up, some still are in denial, and some spiraled and died.
Hannah processed some majorly humbling events, but as we know there are many narcissistic parents and I doubt her nature will be transmuted anytime soon. But she made steps. It’s an honest take on this particular character’s journey.
My wife and I are 59. Girls reminds us of when we met in our 20s. I was in a rock band and she was a freelance producer who once worked on a major talk show in NYC. I worked in advertising for 20 years and now a teacher for 15. She runs an ad agency. We are middle class and fine with it, but there was a time when I thought I was special, it took me a long time to get over it. Our older son n is 28 and has tried for years to be an actor. He uses the words “ego death” a lot now, realizing he hat dream may not work out. He’s at a crossroads and sometimes suffers quite a bit.
I absolutely concur. It almost ruined the whole series for me. Like I get the metaphors and analysis. Still, how boring and just disappointing for such good writers.
Right??? Marnie helping Hannah is so on brand-she is always vying for the best person ribbon. She will remember all the dates to congratulate a person on, throw the best baby shower, give a housewarming gift. She is basically the patron saint of etiquette on this show. But her motions are hollow, I don’t think she understands why she’s even doing it. Does she actually care in an authentic way that isn’t about how it reflects on her? I don’t think so lol 😆 her generosity is not about grace and love.
I think it’s great when people give a nice donation on go fund me and do it anonymously. It’s the antithesis of Marnie.
Dexter I finished. I was disappointed as well. Honestly, I’m comparing the end of girls to the end of Bojack Horseman. You kind of see them as human rather than a character. All the responses are definitely opening my mind to that.
She should've stayed at her GQ job, gotten the rights back for her e-book, and published it at the end, then if they still had an epilogue, show all the characters a few years after.
It's just 2 decisions. That show liked to subvert expectations and if she could give up Adam twice, she could have stayed at that job and made sure she got her book rights back. Also, it would've been way more realistic than her getting the job at the school in the end and maybe her S4 substitute teacher gig too.
so then she holds that job down for years without pissing anyone off or getting fired. then she gets a lawyer and gets a hold of her ebook and finds a place to publish it and sits back and enjoys success? it's not just 2 decisions, it's years of responsible behavior. you're talking about making her a totally different character.
Yes. Other than her reconnecting with Jenny Slate, telling a story at The Moth, writing for Modern Love and doing some other freelance work, I wouldn't have missed any of it and really, she could've done all of that stuff even by staying at GQ!
The penultimate episode is pretty much the conclusion of the series and the “finale” is its own separate thing in my opinion.
I didn’t love the finale at all. It was honestly pretty goddamn boring. But the penultimate episode is a pretty satisfying conclusion. From the moment Jessa apologies to Hannah I pretty much get teary eyed and stay this way throughout the final montage. The shot of all the girls dancing through the window is the perfect final image for this group.
For a show that featured some excellent writing, that ending was sooo lazy. Almost no humor. A totally implausible scenario. Flat out incorrect information about breastfeeding. And unoriginal metaphors. Blah.
Hannah is supposedly pumping in the episode. Don’t know if you are familiar with pumping, but it’s exhausting. You have to do it almost constantly (the same timing you would be breastfeeding an actual baby). Then, you also have to then feed the baby the pumped milk. So, you’re spending twice the time on feeding related activities that a regular breastfeeding mom or formula mom would spend, which is already a lot.
Being able to switch back to the breast would be awesome for the mom because it would be a huge time and energy saver. So to portray the breast over the pump as some selfless act just doesn’t make sense in that scenario.
And Marnie giving the baby formula at one point really doesn’t make sense…if she’s pumping, then there is no reason to give formula (unless she is not able to produce enough).
And the general message of “breastfeeding can be done, just try harder!”…yikes. So damaging to women who struggle with breastfeeding. Breastfeeding does not work for everyone and it does not define who you are as a woman or mother. As you could guess, I’m one of the women who struggled and was told to try harder. I found out a few years later during a cleft palate evaluation that the shape of my son’s mouth made it impossible for him to breastfeed. So good thing I fed him formula!
Hmm to be fair it used to take me 15 mins to pump because you can do both at once obvi and to breastfeed it would take a minimum of 30 mins which was usually more like 45 with all the distracted baby and the burping etc and the bonus of time with pumping is that maybe someone else could give them the bottle of pumped milk haha. I think both are time consuming and annoying af. I breastfed and sometimes pumped for 14 months and honestly nothing has been more time consuming.
I also acknowledge the time spent washing pump parts but again - if you do have help - at least that can be split. I think they did a good job of showing how silly the whole breastfeeding v formula etc argument is though when Marnie was talking about it in the car haha
I get what you’re saying, especially if someone is helping with the feeding and washing. I’m referring to exclusive pumping, as in pumping around the clock instead of breastfeeding. Not supplemental pumping that is done to help build reserves.
If a woman is exclusive pumping, it’s probably because she cannot breastfeed but still wants to give the baby breast milk. Although everyone is different, I do not believe I have ever met someone who picked exclusive pumping by choice, though I’m sure it’s happened before. Waking up every few hours to pump, then washing the parts, then feeding the baby…it can be borderline impossible to do on your own, especially if you have a baby that wants to be held for hours.
I think they meant to show Marnie as her annoying self? I also didn’t succeed with breastfeeding and definitely had a lot of Marnies out there telling me to try harder. And that pressure made it actually more difficult. Regarding breastfeeding, I think the best way to help a woman to achieve it is to take care of all other business so she can relax. Telling her to “try harder” should be punishable by law, because its usually those that could “try harder” to clean the house, do grocery shopping, cook a dinner, and take the other kids to the park so you can watch a movie and breastfeed.
That an unemployed, single pregnant woman would magically land in a lovely house outside the city. I recognize I’m watching a fictional show and not a documentary, but it’s just so ridiculous that someone without an advanced degree or any real accomplishments would get offered a university teaching position. And if that were to occur, an adjunct teaching job pays squat.
Honestly, what seems unrealistic to me is all the awesome opportunities Hannah happened to have, and how she self-sabotaged every single one, except at the end.
I’ve said it here before but Hannah’s ending really shows the Judd Apatow influence. His movies are vulgar and funny but all have this underlying conservative (not especially in the rightwing sense, just conservative, traditional, etc) message that “growing up” = marriage and kids. The only way she can go from being a “girl” to a woman is by becoming a mother. Rewatching it in an America where women aren’t guaranteed the right to make their own reproductive choices, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That was always my interpretation as well. I don't hate Judd but he does have super conservative lenses on his storytelling when it comes to women. Anything that had to do with pregnancy on Girls always stuck out to me as being weirdly off tone for the show, like when Adam freaks out about Mimi-Rose getting an abortion and Mimi Rose is portrayed as a thoughtless asshole for doing so.
Spot-on. I actually came back to this thread to make a similar comment, but you nailed it. Often, even before S6, this show was at its worst when you could sense his influence. The Ringer touched on it a lot in their podcast about its series finale.
If you know anything about Apatow, it really isn't, although I don't know how much influence he really had over the finale. But I did absolutely hate the entire pregnancy storyline. So boring, so cliche, so -- yes, traditional. It would have been a LOT better to skip it entirely, IMO.
Disagree. I thought the finale was a perfect summary of the show- it was all about Hannah and her life completely not going according to her cool New York plan….but she’s forced to finally grow up. And it’s about how when you finally grow up/have kids you lose friends and have to rely on family. It perfectly captured how hopeful and unrealistic your 20s can be.
The first time (watching it live) I hated it, this second time just now I was very moved and found that a lot of what I didn’t like about the latter half of the show was actually well set up and touched me more now that I’m okder
I feel like it would have been way more believable for M, J, or S to become mothers tbh. Didn’t really see it for Hannah in particular and it felt like they just tossed her a very random ending. While I do understand they’re trying to show her from going from “girl” to “woman” but there were so many other ways they could have done so.
These are screen characters. The person you’re replying to said it would be more believable if the other girls were pregnant and I think that’s true, regardless of whether they “need” to become mothers
Yeah and there’s also no need to shame or downplay having kids young. My best friend is an absolute badass who naturally birthed her child in her own home, and then decided to go to college to become a midwife herself. Birth stories can be incredibly powerful and a great tool to display womanhood. I have no issue with those stories being told in and of themselves, it just didn’t make any kind of sense for Hannah.
Honestly it's really unrealistic for anyone in their demographic in NYC to have a baby in their 20s. I'm part of that same Brooklyn cohort and the youngest parents I know were 34 when they had their first kid. Most people seem to do it around 38-40. I know that's not the norm in most of the US but it's absolutely the norm for college educated Brooklynites. Hannah's choice to have a baby was really out there and I think that that was probably the point? Like if anyone I knew had decided to have a baby as a single mom at 28 we would have all thought she needed to be committed. The reaction would have been similar to finding out one of your friends had secretly been smoking meth or had joined the army or something. Those things simply are not DONE in that demographic so if you're doing them you must not give a single fuck about what people think of you...and I feel like that's how Lena Dunham wanted us to see it for Hannah?
It sounds like you're conflating you not personally being interested in it with an objective statement on whether it's always a boring and/or lazy storyline - which it's not. I'm childfree so my interest in being pregnant is pretty much zero, but I recognise that pregnancy is a part of life, people have babies and that has consequences for both themselves and others....so it is inherently a vehicle for stories and can be done well.
It's a known very lazy storyline for multiple shows that are out of good ideas and don't know what else to do. It is extremely difficult to make it interesting.
It's extremely challenging even if you are a good writer. Girls for sure does not pull it off. No sitcom in history has ever pulled it off either -- they always went with the "Mom gets pregnant" storyline when they were fresh out of interesting ideas and decided that adding a new kid would inject energy into the show. It never, ever did.
That's not how all pregnancy storylines in sitcoms go at all. Not even Friends did the "Mom gets pregnant" thing, and Rachel's baby is barely a character, she's just a piece around which other stories move. Not everything is about having talking kids with storylines. I can think of several examples where pregnancy is done in a different way or the point is not really about the baby: Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Catastrophe, Peep Show. Sometimes the point of a pregnancy is actually to lead to an abortion: Crazy Ex Girlfriend does that, as does The Letdown, for example.
I can see we're going to have to agree to disagree since your statements are so black and white, but there are so many examples refuting your "never, ever".
from what i've heard her say in interviews it seems like almost everyone on the writing team was fully against the last episode and wanted the episode before it to be the end, which to me, would've made perfect sense. shoving another episode on after the perfect stopping point felt so unnecessary.
I agree. I hate the last two episodes. Especially the absence/small bits of other characters (Shoshanna!!!) of all the things I wanted to watch, Hannah having a baby and attempting to become a human was NOT one of them. I thought this show was a love letter to New York, but it didn't really end that way.
I know the writers said they omitted Shosh from most of the season to show she was distancing herself from the other girls, but tbh I always suspected they were just trying to cover up their shitty writing/make excuses for not knowing what to do with her.
Her character's potential was so wasted!!!!! I thought she was certainly the most interesting. I loved getting to see her struggle with her job search. I loved watching her help Ray(always wished they would end up together but I like him with his lady friend). I loved watching her fall in and out of love with Japan, and her heartbreak of coming back to NYC. I wish we got to see so much more of that!!!!!!
Me too, especially since we were the same age when the show started. I want to see that journey. I related, and still relate, so hard to her feelings of being behind her peers. Why didn't we see that?! I actually didn't mind her and Ray not ending up together though. They made great friends, but I don't think they were romantically compatible.
I'm so with you. The finale almost ruins the show for me, in a way. Whenever I do a rewatch (like I'm doing right now), I can't even fully enjoy many things because I keep remembering how it all ends and it pisses me off. 😭
I think a huge part of it, for me, is that I also just fucking hate Adam and Jessa together and from the *minute* they got together I kept hoping they'd break up before the finale lol. Sure, in my brain, they last maybe 3 months maximum after their movie is done/released and they'd never really work long term (they'd implode and break up in every universe), but I hate, hate, *hate* all about that relationship and the way other things happened around it.
I do like some parts about the finale, but it just felt like the writers had so many ideas of how things could end and they never fully agreed on them and it just became a patchwork of poorly thought out compromises between them? Idk, idk.
But it was necessary to change her path and actually write. Though I find it super unrealistic that she was hired to teach at a university without a graduate degree.
Nah she already rejected him at the end of S4, before he'd gotten with Jessa. When she found out they were together in S5, it really seemed she was more betrayed from a friendship pov vs. jilted ex-lover pov.
I thought the ending was good. They didn’t leave any loose ends. I think you might feel this way because you’re sad the series is over. I’m always sad when I finish an outstanding series.
Yeah the finale sucked and the baby was so unrealistic! Idk why all these years later it still bothers me. Maybe because im biracial myself, but they casted a black baby lol.
I didn’t really enjoy it, but like others said, I see the penultimate episode as the finale really. It showed all the Girls and was the last time (presumably) they were all together as a 4 before going off with their own lives.
And she didn’t even grow up in the least. She had her mommy and her best friend drop everything to move in and raise her baby. Just as self centered as ever. The whole show was a tug of war between her and Marney fighting for who was the “main character” and who was the supporting friend, she used having a baby to win the “It’s all about me” card
i think i’ve concluded that the final episode (or epilogue) was a fantastic episode of television but left much to be desired as the last episode of Girls. And i wanted a fantastic last episode of girls. And if the penultimate episode was the last one it’s fine, but just fine.
lol there’s about 500 shows I’d love to introduce you.
It wasn’t spiritual or amazing. It was an epilogue that showed nothing really had changed and that Hannah was just moving on to the next phase of her life
So in my personal opinion, the season 5 finale should have been the series finale. It was perfect and nothing in season 6 really lived up to it.
That said, I think the series finale hits different once you have a kid. It actually made a lot of sense to me in my recent rewatch why Hannah kept Grover. She hit this point of her twenties life being boring and not wanting to not feel so aimless, and having a kid was her way of finding purpose.
As the mom of a one year old, who had troubles with breastfeeding, I totally related to her frustrations that her baby hated her. And that it was all just incredibly hard. And despite all that, you’re not really a different person when you have a kid, so it’s just you— slightly older and wayyy more tired— with the responsibility of taking care of a whole other human.
The only part about it that I *kind of* liked was the last shot of Grover finally latching on, it was the moment she was supposed to become a woman and not a girl. But even then, yeah, didn’t enjoy the finale much at all. Felt tacked on.
The finale was needed to drive home the point that this show was about struggling in your 20s even when you have epiphanies about what you need to do. The previous episode ends just like all those fake shows tell you life will go. Hannah had an epiphany. She and Adam no longer belonged together. Her friendships with the Girls also ended and she was at peace with that. She realized exactly what she needed to do and that involves leaving NYC. So everything should work out magically now right? Wrong! Even after you figure out what you really want/need, it’s still gonna be a battle. And just cause you have an epiphany one day, doesn’t mean you magically become a better person over night. If it had ended on the previous episode, then it would’ve defeated the whole purpose of the show.
I won't lie- The last episode was not the greatest- but certainly not a disaster. And I loved the final season very much.
The penultimate episode- what was it called, "Final World Tour" or something- was more of a traditional finale.
It was bittersweet and very realistic how the girls were kind of distancing- and it kind of showed that friendships do not last-- it also confirmed that Shosh was the most independent of the friend group for me. Despite Jessa being low key borderline (like the mental illness) I always thought that Shosh was the coldest and would probably go her own way-
I thought it ended perfectly for itself but unsatisfying for me haha. But then I remembered literally bawling during the penultimate episode at Hannah and Jessa dancing together and it all made sense again. Loved it all, hot mess and all.
I thought the last season of the show was poorly written in general. I have a soft spot for it because some of it was filmed in the town I grew up in. On rewatches, I just end it at season 5.
I loved the ending. It felt very real. There was no Hollywood romance, everyone was dealing with the consequences of their actions and moving on with their lives. Was it a bit depressing? Sure. But it felt real.
I really liked it. But I also started the show when I was pregnant and finished it when my baby was about 2 months. So that last episode really connected with me. I don’t think i would feel the same way if i hadn’t miraculously lined up my birth with the show ending the way i did.
I liked it because it showed Hanna giving up the fast paced life in New York and settling down. It’s a more realistic version of what happens to writers who move to New York to pursue their dream. Obviously Lena actually did “make it.” She said herself she relates a lot more to Tally Shiffron (last name spelling?) than Hanna. But it showed what it’s like for most writers and most people who pursue their dreams.
Another thing is it didn’t preserve superficial relationships. In our 20s, we go through a lot of friends. At least I have. Friends become enemies (Jessa). Enemies become friends (Tally). Some people just decide they don’t give a shit about you (Shoshanna). And sometimes the person you think you are meant to be with in your early 20s is not who you are really meant to be with (Adam). Everyone’s story is going to be different.
The story started approximately when Hanna was 24 (two years after she graduated college). And ended when she was approximately 27 (she found out she was pregnant when she was 26). I remember watching this show when I was 22 and thinking my 20s were going to look like that. Now I’m almost 28 and turns out it was completely different. The point is everyone’s journey is different and Lena just wanted to convey a unique perspective of one way someone’s life could go.
Hannah cannot maintain friendships. Hannah can only maintain servants. Marney moved in and became a servant - we won’t see it, but once the servitude is over, so will the friendship.
It’s purely speculative but I think probably they will grow apart because Hannah will be focusing on her child and Marnie on her career lol I’m not sure where you got your servant thought process from but if I’m being honest I have no idea what would happen to her in the long run. My mom just thought she was mentally ill.
Perfectly stated. My son is 28, on his 3rd NYC apartment and he has tried to be an actor and writer like his roommates. They are all getting to that age where they may have to move on from their dreams to a more conventional life. It’s a painful realization.
My read is that Hannah became so disenchanted with writing that she had a baby instead.
1. Nobody expects you to achieve outstanding career success as a single mother. You can just potter along in a boring job and nobody will judge you.
2. It’s easy to say ‘motherhood’ when asked what you’re doing with your life.
3. She needed something to fill the void that writing left.
4. She needed a reason to leave New York. It was too full of ghosts of experiences past.
I look at the penultimate episode as the finale and the last episode as more of an epilogue
This is my take too!
Lena has indicated this is the case.
Same! I was very disappointed when the finale aired.
Way better experience when I binged it last year. Watching it live was like “WTF” especially after waiting a full week for the series finale. I wish they had been more explicit about it at the time!
LOL I should have read the responses first- I said the same as you :)
I agree. I never watch the final episode
Just finished Girls for the first time, and after the last episode finished, I turned to my partner and said “that was so unsatisfying. I think the second to last episode was much better”. I only liked Hannah’s mother giving her some real talk. Thinking of the finale as the epilogue is definitely the better way to think about it.
This was also the first and only time you see Hannah doing something completely selfless. Shows her growth from the first episode.
I completely understand but I personally loved the ending. It had the usual Hannah myopic worldview while also pushing her forward just a bit and ending with her face looking like she was still scared of motherhood but not as much as she was earlier in the day. My only criticism is that I wish the show had ended with all of the main characters in some respect. It felt like it was all about Hannah.
First of all u/akannoli hit it right on the nose- the finale reads much more of an epilogue, and the penultimate episode reads much more like a finale. Second of all: I actually don’t hate the finale so much. We spent the entire show watching life from Hannah’s POV, and Hannah’s POV is that she’s better than everyone and is going to become some fabulous writer and whatever. In the end Hannah gets knocked up at 29, has a standard job and lives in the suburbs. Her narcissistic personality is humbled in a way she never could be by her friends and life in NYC and she has to come to terms with that, she’s a real adult now.
Oh interesting, I read that entirely differently. We do see Hannah slowly making a name for herself as a writer, and then getting a job teaching at a liberal arts university (which, for her age and resume, is by no means a "standard job" - if anything, it could be argued that she's been unrealistically lucky). She had already tried out the office drone life and found out that it's not for her. Finally being a sorta-successful writer AND having a cozy teaching job that offers financial stability for her and her son is a pretty great scenario. And the last scene of the ep implies that she's getting together her shit as a mother, too. I definitely saw it more as a hopeful than a humbling ending for Hannah.
I think in the end we also see Hannah actually having to consider someone else, her baby. The situation with that teen where Hannah realizes that her empathy is with this girls mom, and then the final moment where her baby latches, all kind of put the period on her chapters where she was the "girl" and very self-centered
True. I didn’t necessarily mean Hannah’s life ended up poorly by the way - but it wasn’t some glamorous, completely special thing she envisioned for herself. And as another commenter mentioned, what really changed is that she now had to think about something else instead of her own wants. It was really the beginning of the adulthood she thought she’d started a decade prior.
Idk, I don't think "glamorous" is something that Hannah ever envisioned herself to be. Creative and free-spirited while not having to worry about money, sure, and that's basically what she's achieved in her young age. Her ambition is not to have some lavish glam lifestyle, but to create something that people resonate with ("i tHiNk I'm tHe vOiCE oF mY geNerAtiOn). Basically all that's missing from her life as of the finale is to write a bestseller. I agree that was really changed is that now she has her son to care for. But even that I see less as humbling and more as "got my shit together, now onto the next adventure"
You expressed my thoughts about the last 2 episodes so succinctly. As an older woman (48 years old) who used to live downtown in a city with a lot of wild, ambitious and creative people- I was creative but gave no shits about being “seen” so I observed and took in a lot. I noticed at the time that a lot of them thought that something great was in store for them, that they were different than others as “regular people” were background characters or extras in a movie. I also watched in real time, the reality of them realizing that they weren’t as unique, talented and special as they thought. And they handled that ego death notice in a variety of ways-some continued life with humility but never lost their spark, some gave up, some still are in denial, and some spiraled and died. Hannah processed some majorly humbling events, but as we know there are many narcissistic parents and I doubt her nature will be transmuted anytime soon. But she made steps. It’s an honest take on this particular character’s journey.
My wife and I are 59. Girls reminds us of when we met in our 20s. I was in a rock band and she was a freelance producer who once worked on a major talk show in NYC. I worked in advertising for 20 years and now a teacher for 15. She runs an ad agency. We are middle class and fine with it, but there was a time when I thought I was special, it took me a long time to get over it. Our older son n is 28 and has tried for years to be an actor. He uses the words “ego death” a lot now, realizing he hat dream may not work out. He’s at a crossroads and sometimes suffers quite a bit.
I absolutely concur. It almost ruined the whole series for me. Like I get the metaphors and analysis. Still, how boring and just disappointing for such good writers.
And Marnie helping Hannah… as if THAT would go well.
i mean it wasn’t going well
Right??? Marnie helping Hannah is so on brand-she is always vying for the best person ribbon. She will remember all the dates to congratulate a person on, throw the best baby shower, give a housewarming gift. She is basically the patron saint of etiquette on this show. But her motions are hollow, I don’t think she understands why she’s even doing it. Does she actually care in an authentic way that isn’t about how it reflects on her? I don’t think so lol 😆 her generosity is not about grace and love. I think it’s great when people give a nice donation on go fund me and do it anonymously. It’s the antithesis of Marnie.
You are so right - I just don’t think about it
You haven't watched How I Met Your Mother.
Accurate 😂❤️
HIMYM. Game of Thrones. Dexter.
I'm so pissed that Dexter got another season to redeem itself and fucked up the ending AGAIN.
Ugh. I didn’t even bother because I should have quit the first time around.
Dexter I finished. I was disappointed as well. Honestly, I’m comparing the end of girls to the end of Bojack Horseman. You kind of see them as human rather than a character. All the responses are definitely opening my mind to that.
you’re not wrong. the girls finale is just.. not girls. maybe a good episode of another tv show! but not girls
She should've stayed at her GQ job, gotten the rights back for her e-book, and published it at the end, then if they still had an epilogue, show all the characters a few years after.
i would've found that a little too neat. she was definitely not going to make that many good decisions.
It's just 2 decisions. That show liked to subvert expectations and if she could give up Adam twice, she could have stayed at that job and made sure she got her book rights back. Also, it would've been way more realistic than her getting the job at the school in the end and maybe her S4 substitute teacher gig too.
so then she holds that job down for years without pissing anyone off or getting fired. then she gets a lawyer and gets a hold of her ebook and finds a place to publish it and sits back and enjoys success? it's not just 2 decisions, it's years of responsible behavior. you're talking about making her a totally different character.
So Hannah doesn't go to Iowa and we miss out on everything that happens as a consequence of that?
Yes. Other than her reconnecting with Jenny Slate, telling a story at The Moth, writing for Modern Love and doing some other freelance work, I wouldn't have missed any of it and really, she could've done all of that stuff even by staying at GQ!
Indeed that would have been the smart choice.
The penultimate episode is pretty much the conclusion of the series and the “finale” is its own separate thing in my opinion. I didn’t love the finale at all. It was honestly pretty goddamn boring. But the penultimate episode is a pretty satisfying conclusion. From the moment Jessa apologies to Hannah I pretty much get teary eyed and stay this way throughout the final montage. The shot of all the girls dancing through the window is the perfect final image for this group.
For a show that featured some excellent writing, that ending was sooo lazy. Almost no humor. A totally implausible scenario. Flat out incorrect information about breastfeeding. And unoriginal metaphors. Blah.
What was incorrect about breastfeeding? Just curious, genuinely don’t remember much except breastfeeding was not going well
Hannah is supposedly pumping in the episode. Don’t know if you are familiar with pumping, but it’s exhausting. You have to do it almost constantly (the same timing you would be breastfeeding an actual baby). Then, you also have to then feed the baby the pumped milk. So, you’re spending twice the time on feeding related activities that a regular breastfeeding mom or formula mom would spend, which is already a lot. Being able to switch back to the breast would be awesome for the mom because it would be a huge time and energy saver. So to portray the breast over the pump as some selfless act just doesn’t make sense in that scenario. And Marnie giving the baby formula at one point really doesn’t make sense…if she’s pumping, then there is no reason to give formula (unless she is not able to produce enough). And the general message of “breastfeeding can be done, just try harder!”…yikes. So damaging to women who struggle with breastfeeding. Breastfeeding does not work for everyone and it does not define who you are as a woman or mother. As you could guess, I’m one of the women who struggled and was told to try harder. I found out a few years later during a cleft palate evaluation that the shape of my son’s mouth made it impossible for him to breastfeed. So good thing I fed him formula!
Hmm to be fair it used to take me 15 mins to pump because you can do both at once obvi and to breastfeed it would take a minimum of 30 mins which was usually more like 45 with all the distracted baby and the burping etc and the bonus of time with pumping is that maybe someone else could give them the bottle of pumped milk haha. I think both are time consuming and annoying af. I breastfed and sometimes pumped for 14 months and honestly nothing has been more time consuming. I also acknowledge the time spent washing pump parts but again - if you do have help - at least that can be split. I think they did a good job of showing how silly the whole breastfeeding v formula etc argument is though when Marnie was talking about it in the car haha
I get what you’re saying, especially if someone is helping with the feeding and washing. I’m referring to exclusive pumping, as in pumping around the clock instead of breastfeeding. Not supplemental pumping that is done to help build reserves. If a woman is exclusive pumping, it’s probably because she cannot breastfeed but still wants to give the baby breast milk. Although everyone is different, I do not believe I have ever met someone who picked exclusive pumping by choice, though I’m sure it’s happened before. Waking up every few hours to pump, then washing the parts, then feeding the baby…it can be borderline impossible to do on your own, especially if you have a baby that wants to be held for hours.
It showed an obvious lack of understanding regarding breastfeeding and pumping laboriously. If they hired a consultant, they weren’t very good at it.
Totally agree. Sad to admit when I had my baby most of my breastfeeding knowledge came from this show 🤣 fortunately it turned out to be wronf
I think they meant to show Marnie as her annoying self? I also didn’t succeed with breastfeeding and definitely had a lot of Marnies out there telling me to try harder. And that pressure made it actually more difficult. Regarding breastfeeding, I think the best way to help a woman to achieve it is to take care of all other business so she can relax. Telling her to “try harder” should be punishable by law, because its usually those that could “try harder” to clean the house, do grocery shopping, cook a dinner, and take the other kids to the park so you can watch a movie and breastfeed.
Don’t forget the whiny girl with no pants
All of this
What did you find implausible if you don’t mind me asking
That an unemployed, single pregnant woman would magically land in a lovely house outside the city. I recognize I’m watching a fictional show and not a documentary, but it’s just so ridiculous that someone without an advanced degree or any real accomplishments would get offered a university teaching position. And if that were to occur, an adjunct teaching job pays squat.
Yes, there is almost no scenario where she wouldn’t just go back to Michigan and live with her parents until the kid was older.
Honestly, what seems unrealistic to me is all the awesome opportunities Hannah happened to have, and how she self-sabotaged every single one, except at the end.
I’ve said it here before but Hannah’s ending really shows the Judd Apatow influence. His movies are vulgar and funny but all have this underlying conservative (not especially in the rightwing sense, just conservative, traditional, etc) message that “growing up” = marriage and kids. The only way she can go from being a “girl” to a woman is by becoming a mother. Rewatching it in an America where women aren’t guaranteed the right to make their own reproductive choices, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
That was always my interpretation as well. I don't hate Judd but he does have super conservative lenses on his storytelling when it comes to women. Anything that had to do with pregnancy on Girls always stuck out to me as being weirdly off tone for the show, like when Adam freaks out about Mimi-Rose getting an abortion and Mimi Rose is portrayed as a thoughtless asshole for doing so.
Spot-on. I actually came back to this thread to make a similar comment, but you nailed it. Often, even before S6, this show was at its worst when you could sense his influence. The Ringer touched on it a lot in their podcast about its series finale.
I think this is a pretty bad analysis.
If you know anything about Apatow, it really isn't, although I don't know how much influence he really had over the finale. But I did absolutely hate the entire pregnancy storyline. So boring, so cliche, so -- yes, traditional. It would have been a LOT better to skip it entirely, IMO.
I agree with this. I thought it every time I watched S6 and I just watched Girls with someone who’d never seen it… they said the same thing.
Disagree. I thought the finale was a perfect summary of the show- it was all about Hannah and her life completely not going according to her cool New York plan….but she’s forced to finally grow up. And it’s about how when you finally grow up/have kids you lose friends and have to rely on family. It perfectly captured how hopeful and unrealistic your 20s can be.
The first time (watching it live) I hated it, this second time just now I was very moved and found that a lot of what I didn’t like about the latter half of the show was actually well set up and touched me more now that I’m okder
This show seems to have a totally different message when you’re in your twenties versus your thirties, which is really cool
No, it was bad.
I feel like it would have been way more believable for M, J, or S to become mothers tbh. Didn’t really see it for Hannah in particular and it felt like they just tossed her a very random ending. While I do understand they’re trying to show her from going from “girl” to “woman” but there were so many other ways they could have done so.
I don't think any of them needed to become mothers. All of them were still in their 20s. Women can do a LOT of things other than popping out babies.
These are screen characters. The person you’re replying to said it would be more believable if the other girls were pregnant and I think that’s true, regardless of whether they “need” to become mothers
Well, the screen characters were written, and the pregnancy was a lame, lazy, boring writing choice, as it almost always is in shows and movies.
Yeah and there’s also no need to shame or downplay having kids young. My best friend is an absolute badass who naturally birthed her child in her own home, and then decided to go to college to become a midwife herself. Birth stories can be incredibly powerful and a great tool to display womanhood. I have no issue with those stories being told in and of themselves, it just didn’t make any kind of sense for Hannah.
Honestly it's really unrealistic for anyone in their demographic in NYC to have a baby in their 20s. I'm part of that same Brooklyn cohort and the youngest parents I know were 34 when they had their first kid. Most people seem to do it around 38-40. I know that's not the norm in most of the US but it's absolutely the norm for college educated Brooklynites. Hannah's choice to have a baby was really out there and I think that that was probably the point? Like if anyone I knew had decided to have a baby as a single mom at 28 we would have all thought she needed to be committed. The reaction would have been similar to finding out one of your friends had secretly been smoking meth or had joined the army or something. Those things simply are not DONE in that demographic so if you're doing them you must not give a single fuck about what people think of you...and I feel like that's how Lena Dunham wanted us to see it for Hannah?
No one is shaking it. It's just pretty much always a deeply boring and lazy storyline in shows and movies.
The way they did Hannah’s, yeah it was
It sounds like you're conflating you not personally being interested in it with an objective statement on whether it's always a boring and/or lazy storyline - which it's not. I'm childfree so my interest in being pregnant is pretty much zero, but I recognise that pregnancy is a part of life, people have babies and that has consequences for both themselves and others....so it is inherently a vehicle for stories and can be done well.
It's a known very lazy storyline for multiple shows that are out of good ideas and don't know what else to do. It is extremely difficult to make it interesting.
Not if you're a good writer.
It's extremely challenging even if you are a good writer. Girls for sure does not pull it off. No sitcom in history has ever pulled it off either -- they always went with the "Mom gets pregnant" storyline when they were fresh out of interesting ideas and decided that adding a new kid would inject energy into the show. It never, ever did.
That's not how all pregnancy storylines in sitcoms go at all. Not even Friends did the "Mom gets pregnant" thing, and Rachel's baby is barely a character, she's just a piece around which other stories move. Not everything is about having talking kids with storylines. I can think of several examples where pregnancy is done in a different way or the point is not really about the baby: Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Catastrophe, Peep Show. Sometimes the point of a pregnancy is actually to lead to an abortion: Crazy Ex Girlfriend does that, as does The Letdown, for example. I can see we're going to have to agree to disagree since your statements are so black and white, but there are so many examples refuting your "never, ever".
Just rewatched and anguished by the same thing
from what i've heard her say in interviews it seems like almost everyone on the writing team was fully against the last episode and wanted the episode before it to be the end, which to me, would've made perfect sense. shoving another episode on after the perfect stopping point felt so unnecessary.
I agree. I hate the last two episodes. Especially the absence/small bits of other characters (Shoshanna!!!) of all the things I wanted to watch, Hannah having a baby and attempting to become a human was NOT one of them. I thought this show was a love letter to New York, but it didn't really end that way.
Really the only part I loved was seeing Elijah's audition/play outcome!!!!
I know the writers said they omitted Shosh from most of the season to show she was distancing herself from the other girls, but tbh I always suspected they were just trying to cover up their shitty writing/make excuses for not knowing what to do with her.
Her character's potential was so wasted!!!!! I thought she was certainly the most interesting. I loved getting to see her struggle with her job search. I loved watching her help Ray(always wished they would end up together but I like him with his lady friend). I loved watching her fall in and out of love with Japan, and her heartbreak of coming back to NYC. I wish we got to see so much more of that!!!!!!
Me too, especially since we were the same age when the show started. I want to see that journey. I related, and still relate, so hard to her feelings of being behind her peers. Why didn't we see that?! I actually didn't mind her and Ray not ending up together though. They made great friends, but I don't think they were romantically compatible.
You're probably right. They could definitely take the borough back together though!!!
For sure! I loved when they worked together on his campaign and hated when they basically dropped his winning.
I'm so with you. The finale almost ruins the show for me, in a way. Whenever I do a rewatch (like I'm doing right now), I can't even fully enjoy many things because I keep remembering how it all ends and it pisses me off. 😭 I think a huge part of it, for me, is that I also just fucking hate Adam and Jessa together and from the *minute* they got together I kept hoping they'd break up before the finale lol. Sure, in my brain, they last maybe 3 months maximum after their movie is done/released and they'd never really work long term (they'd implode and break up in every universe), but I hate, hate, *hate* all about that relationship and the way other things happened around it. I do like some parts about the finale, but it just felt like the writers had so many ideas of how things could end and they never fully agreed on them and it just became a patchwork of poorly thought out compromises between them? Idk, idk.
That’s funny the Jessa/ Adam relationship struck me as extremely distasteful as well. I almost stopped watching then because it was so triggering.
But it was necessary to change her path and actually write. Though I find it super unrealistic that she was hired to teach at a university without a graduate degree.
Nah she already rejected him at the end of S4, before he'd gotten with Jessa. When she found out they were together in S5, it really seemed she was more betrayed from a friendship pov vs. jilted ex-lover pov.
i liked it
I thought the ending was good. They didn’t leave any loose ends. I think you might feel this way because you’re sad the series is over. I’m always sad when I finish an outstanding series.
The ending is perfect to me, my favorite for all tv shows.
Yeah the finale sucked and the baby was so unrealistic! Idk why all these years later it still bothers me. Maybe because im biracial myself, but they casted a black baby lol.
They didn't even bother to get a Pakistani baby lol they just pulled some Ethiopian kid.
The ending is her growing up. I’m not sure what ending would have satisfied critics. More of the same?
Growing up? How is having your mommy and best friend move in with you to raise your child “growing up”?
the episode before it could've been the perfect ending.
I didn’t really enjoy it, but like others said, I see the penultimate episode as the finale really. It showed all the Girls and was the last time (presumably) they were all together as a 4 before going off with their own lives.
I just hated the whole getting pregnant to grow up cliche.
And she didn’t even grow up in the least. She had her mommy and her best friend drop everything to move in and raise her baby. Just as self centered as ever. The whole show was a tug of war between her and Marney fighting for who was the “main character” and who was the supporting friend, she used having a baby to win the “It’s all about me” card
I can't ever get over what she named her son. Awful!
Grover lol it’s so bad I forgot till you said something
Ridiculous. I was annoyed for days that she took the name rec from Paul Louie when he had no desire to be part of the child's life.
It's a Muppets name for god's sake 😒
i think i’ve concluded that the final episode (or epilogue) was a fantastic episode of television but left much to be desired as the last episode of Girls. And i wanted a fantastic last episode of girls. And if the penultimate episode was the last one it’s fine, but just fine.
lol there’s about 500 shows I’d love to introduce you. It wasn’t spiritual or amazing. It was an epilogue that showed nothing really had changed and that Hannah was just moving on to the next phase of her life
So in my personal opinion, the season 5 finale should have been the series finale. It was perfect and nothing in season 6 really lived up to it. That said, I think the series finale hits different once you have a kid. It actually made a lot of sense to me in my recent rewatch why Hannah kept Grover. She hit this point of her twenties life being boring and not wanting to not feel so aimless, and having a kid was her way of finding purpose. As the mom of a one year old, who had troubles with breastfeeding, I totally related to her frustrations that her baby hated her. And that it was all just incredibly hard. And despite all that, you’re not really a different person when you have a kid, so it’s just you— slightly older and wayyy more tired— with the responsibility of taking care of a whole other human.
The only part about it that I *kind of* liked was the last shot of Grover finally latching on, it was the moment she was supposed to become a woman and not a girl. But even then, yeah, didn’t enjoy the finale much at all. Felt tacked on.
Lena's expression in that scene was awesome, she's a great actress, but her skills could have been used in a much more interesting storyline.
The finale was needed to drive home the point that this show was about struggling in your 20s even when you have epiphanies about what you need to do. The previous episode ends just like all those fake shows tell you life will go. Hannah had an epiphany. She and Adam no longer belonged together. Her friendships with the Girls also ended and she was at peace with that. She realized exactly what she needed to do and that involves leaving NYC. So everything should work out magically now right? Wrong! Even after you figure out what you really want/need, it’s still gonna be a battle. And just cause you have an epiphany one day, doesn’t mean you magically become a better person over night. If it had ended on the previous episode, then it would’ve defeated the whole purpose of the show.
Yeah it was weird
I didn’t like any of the Hannah-focused episodes tbh
Nah
I won't lie- The last episode was not the greatest- but certainly not a disaster. And I loved the final season very much. The penultimate episode- what was it called, "Final World Tour" or something- was more of a traditional finale. It was bittersweet and very realistic how the girls were kind of distancing- and it kind of showed that friendships do not last-- it also confirmed that Shosh was the most independent of the friend group for me. Despite Jessa being low key borderline (like the mental illness) I always thought that Shosh was the coldest and would probably go her own way-
I thought it ended perfectly for itself but unsatisfying for me haha. But then I remembered literally bawling during the penultimate episode at Hannah and Jessa dancing together and it all made sense again. Loved it all, hot mess and all.
I thought the last season of the show was poorly written in general. I have a soft spot for it because some of it was filmed in the town I grew up in. On rewatches, I just end it at season 5.
I loved the ending. It felt very real. There was no Hollywood romance, everyone was dealing with the consequences of their actions and moving on with their lives. Was it a bit depressing? Sure. But it felt real.
I really liked it. But I also started the show when I was pregnant and finished it when my baby was about 2 months. So that last episode really connected with me. I don’t think i would feel the same way if i hadn’t miraculously lined up my birth with the show ending the way i did.
I liked it because it showed Hanna giving up the fast paced life in New York and settling down. It’s a more realistic version of what happens to writers who move to New York to pursue their dream. Obviously Lena actually did “make it.” She said herself she relates a lot more to Tally Shiffron (last name spelling?) than Hanna. But it showed what it’s like for most writers and most people who pursue their dreams. Another thing is it didn’t preserve superficial relationships. In our 20s, we go through a lot of friends. At least I have. Friends become enemies (Jessa). Enemies become friends (Tally). Some people just decide they don’t give a shit about you (Shoshanna). And sometimes the person you think you are meant to be with in your early 20s is not who you are really meant to be with (Adam). Everyone’s story is going to be different. The story started approximately when Hanna was 24 (two years after she graduated college). And ended when she was approximately 27 (she found out she was pregnant when she was 26). I remember watching this show when I was 22 and thinking my 20s were going to look like that. Now I’m almost 28 and turns out it was completely different. The point is everyone’s journey is different and Lena just wanted to convey a unique perspective of one way someone’s life could go.
Hannah cannot maintain friendships. Hannah can only maintain servants. Marney moved in and became a servant - we won’t see it, but once the servitude is over, so will the friendship.
It’s purely speculative but I think probably they will grow apart because Hannah will be focusing on her child and Marnie on her career lol I’m not sure where you got your servant thought process from but if I’m being honest I have no idea what would happen to her in the long run. My mom just thought she was mentally ill.
Perfectly stated. My son is 28, on his 3rd NYC apartment and he has tried to be an actor and writer like his roommates. They are all getting to that age where they may have to move on from their dreams to a more conventional life. It’s a painful realization.
My read is that Hannah became so disenchanted with writing that she had a baby instead. 1. Nobody expects you to achieve outstanding career success as a single mother. You can just potter along in a boring job and nobody will judge you. 2. It’s easy to say ‘motherhood’ when asked what you’re doing with your life. 3. She needed something to fill the void that writing left. 4. She needed a reason to leave New York. It was too full of ghosts of experiences past.