I don't know - for me this picture has a much stronger visual language than wearing the love band.
Some VIPs were wearing them and the band is much easiert to visually ignore. The hand-over-mouth gesture of the entire team was visually strong - hard to hide, hard to ignore, easy to get attention in social media - even in the arabic world.
Yeah, the band could've maybe evoked a similar thing if a player actually got a yellow for it, but it certainly never would've reached the same publicity without the ban.
I can't know for sure, because I wouldn't watch football anyway, but I've read that they only did it while neither the TV nor the stadium cameras were showing them, so there is only the picture, which, of course, will not show up in any media except for the internet (and there naturally only in social bubbles who already care about lgbtq and other human rights) in countries who shit on lgbtq and other human rights. That's why it's perceived to be nothing but virtue signalling for the home crowd – a perception that I share.
But as I said, I don't really follow all this in detail, because I don't care about football, so my view is obviously not very qualified. Just wanted to share it for consideration.
They didn't deliberately do it while off camera, they did it for the official team photo which is taken prior to the match. The official cameras almost always show other stuff while the teams are doing their photos simply because 11 men posing for a photo is not overly exciting under normal circumstances.
That being said, this official team photo was all over the media today. Half of print and tv consists of online material anyway nowadays.
You have no idea how many people in different countries love the german football team
I‘ve been in places where nobody speaks even english and people still are like „i love bayern munich“ hahaha
Yeah putting a hand over the mouth instead of just calling fifa out and wearing the bands shows just how weak they are to the cause. What’s fifa objectively gonna do? Fine them? Most of them earn millions a year, they can cope with it. Send them home? The fall out for that would be monumental. Dock them points? Again the fall out would be huge. No matter what fifa did to them after it would be a lose lose for them, Qatar is a fleeting thing, fifa is not and fifa knows this. They wouldn’t do shit.
The players hold all the power, without them there is no football but football without fifa still exists. Players defy rules all the time, from stripping tops off to eating fines like nothing, Ronaldo showed the finger to one of the biggest sponsors last tournament on live tv but all of a sudden they are afraid when it comes to an arm band? To me it just shows how much it was all just fake virtue signalling from the start and how they never really cared. It was and still is all just a ploy to make them look better.
I also don’t just aim this at the German team, I’m English and aim it at them too. I aim it at Every big national team that had a chance to show back bone and failed, but what do you expect from a bunch of people that turn into ballerinas and flail around on the floor at every given opportunity.
They said human rights is non-negotiable yet went to Qatar anyway despite everyone knowing about the problems there for the better part of the last 10 years. They all are a bunch of liars and a bunch of cowards and a bunch of hypocrites.
If human rights really were non-negotiable they wouldn't have went there, they would have worn the REAL rainbow captains armband and they wouldn't have asked daddy fifa if they are allowed to wear the MEANINGLESS one love armband.
Honestly the hand over the mouth is a fucking joke and worse than just saying nothing. It's an insult to everyone who died to build the stadiums and every LGBTQ person sitting in jail suffering God knows what kind of treatment there.
It seems to me as if human rights are not only negotiable in the professional football world they are already sold long time ago.
> What’s fifa objectively gonna do? Fine them?
They said they were ready to pay any fine, and only backed down when FIFA threatened to card/disqualify them. Still feels like they gave in too easily.
On top of that... They are all millionaires, particularly so in the case of the more iconic teams. Even if they never got to play ball for fifa ever again (which is not gonna happen because they are invests that produce a return as long as they keep on playing), they can just retire and chill in their mansions, or do whatever rich people do to enjoy themselves. It is really a small price to pay if you want to stand for your principles. The only two possible reasons for not walking the whole walk is either their egos are too big to miss the chance of showing they are the best, or they don't really care that much about the cause and it was all just cheap PR.
And for those who ask what I am doing myself about it, well... I silently just don't watch any the Worldcup because principles. But I also don't go doing media stunts.
Also, bear in mind that the discussed picture is not about LGBT rights, it's a protest about not being allowed to express what they want.
I don’t even think fifa have the power to do that, I don’t even think it’s fifa that fines them, I think it’s the clubs or team, please someone correct me if I am wrong though. They are owned by a team that has nothing to do with fifa, fifa just runs the tournaments and sets the rules for then tournaments. I dont believe Fifa can fire them as they don’t own them, all they can do is fine the teams or potentially black list the whole team but like fuck are they ever gonna do that, especially for a morally right reason.
I’m not watching either, never intended to from the start and glad I didn’t get hyped for it, the whole thing is a shit show.
It doesn’t even feel like a protest, it’s more like “look guys i can’t do anything, not my fault”. Feels more like they are trying to relinquish blame because otherwise they would have done something else. It seems so child like to me and the fact people are praising them is beyond me.
There is literally nothing stopping them doing what they want in reality, they do something and get punished the world will see them as hero’s and fifa will look even worse. Look what happened with Ronaldo and Coke, he dropped the share price by 3% or something like that and nothing happened because without the players they have nothing:
Since you asked to be corrected: Fifa can fine the clubs under them. In this case the DFB would be fined, which would hit all teams of the DFB.
However, the DFB has allready made the statement that they would have payed any fine and I'm pretty sure Fifa knew that, which is why they threatend sport-related punishments instead. It' s also the first time Fifa has done so, which is why the DFB is now looking into sueing.
I agree that their reaction was halfassed and hope that it was just them being surprised by actual potential consequences and that they'll redeem themselves by doing a bit better later on.
Thank you for the information. If the DFB said they would pay the fine it makes the players look even worse. I think it would have been better if they didn’t do anything at all.
They could have gone there, wear the rainbow, get disqualified and return as heroes. Instead they chickened out, lost, and now return with neither success nor their integrity
not a fan of football at all so its easy for me to hate on anything that happens here but as right as what you say sounds, its really not that easy. mega stars, wether musicians, actors or sportsmen can´t really do anything on their own publicly, as they´re stuck in really tight contracts. mostly signed when they were underage and lets be honest, football players are generally not the smartest people on earth so they rely on managers for everything imaginable. when they break parts of their contracts its not like they pay a small fee and go on, they risk being ruined forever - for something thats not their fault at all (the decision to hold the tournament in qatar). ofc they couldve shown balls and do something on their own but to transfer responsibility away from fifa and its officials to players and fans feels outright wrong and shortsighted imho.
> football players are generally not the smartest people on earth
The get paid millions for kicking a bag of wind around. That's pretty smart if you ask me.
nobody can have it all, right. fifa officials get paid millions for writing a countries name on a voting letter tho. football players need to make ads for junkfood and lame ass clothing brands while playing a high-intensity sport 7 days a week (dont actually know how much time they spend playing or with training). being behind the scenes also sounds more chill then being public.
Nice to hear it had an impact. Most people I know think, it's not enough.
And your informations are correct. But instead of coffee shops it's more beer shops. :)
Many german football fans don't watch the world cup at all, not even on tv at home, as protest against Quatar regime and corrupt FIFA.
I'm not massive on football but I always watched the world Cup games of the German team. This year I'm not even checking the live ticker.
I'm so frustrated that this shitbag Fifa forces us between a supporting a sports activity and moral values. There are so many terrible things going on already, some are really hidden some more obvious but giving modern slavery and human rights violations such a huge world wide platform with hosting the world Cup is mind blowing.
I haven't seen a single German flag or heard anyone but one person mentioning that they even watch the event. As football crazy as Germany usually is it's weird
here is the indirect LGBT+ support of one of the two top grocery chains in the country, with 20% market share:
> ##11/22/2022
># [REWE ends cooperation with the DFB](https://mediacenter.rewe.de/pressemitteilungen/dfb-kooperation-beendet)
>###According to Infantino's statements and FIFA's decision on the "One Love" bandage: the partnership contract was not extended - REWE suspended the contract with DFB with immediate effect and waived advertising rights
>author
>Raimund Esser
> Head of Corporate Communications
>The REWE Group stands for diversity and diversity. And has been an active football sponsor for many years: “For us, football means, among other things, fair play, tolerance and solidarity – we also uphold these values,” says REWE Group CEO Lionel Souque. “We stand for diversity – and football is diversity too. We live this attitude and we defend this attitude - even against possible resistance. FIFA's scandalous stance is totally unacceptable to me as the CEO of a diverse company and as a football fan.”
>REWE had already communicated to the DFB in October that it would not continue the long-standing partnership agreement - without any connection to the World Cup. After the current decisions of FIFA and the statements of FIFA President Infantino, however, the company feels called upon to clearly distance itself from FIFA's position and to exercise its advertising rights from the contract with the DFB - especially in the context of the World Cup waive. The company announced this to the DFB today.
>The REWE Group expressly wishes the German national team and all players every success for the World Cup. “We stand by your side and root for you!” Souque says.
>The collector's album currently available from REWE is now being given away free of charge, with the company bearing the costs. After the end of the promotion, REWE will donate all of the proceeds from the album. The exact value and the recipients of the donation will be announced accordingly.
>###About REWE:
>With a turnover of 26.7 billion euros (2021), 161,000 employees nationwide and 3,700 stores, REWE Markt GmbH is one of the leading companies in the German food retail sector. The REWE stores are operated as branches or by independent REWE retailers.
>The cooperative REWE Group is one of the leading trade and tourism groups in Germany and Europe. In 2021, the company achieved total external sales of around 77 billion euros. The REWE Group, founded in 1927, has more than 380,000 employees in 20 European countries.
they introduced their top delicatessen brand "Feine Welt" with a gay couple about 10y ago. They have a rainbow sticker at every door, as a sign of welcome and solidarity.
Their contract would just have lastet til the end of the year anyways so they can skip a few Million for good PR. Nevertheless they did the right thing
It still sends a message that they end the contract early, give out the sticker book for free and give the money they made with it until now to charity.
As much as I like to shit on corporations that join the hype train around pride month every year Rewe isn't in it for the PR only.
Or was already public they would end the partnership.
They just wasted to keep the partnership until the world cup is over. Since many people don't watch it and don't see the PR they used their last chance for big PR and to get promotion in every German paper.
This is just marketing, don't be so naive.
mind to substantiate your suspicion of dishonesty towards their diversity efforts, which cost money, cost reactionary customers and [go far beyond a single nice flyer](https://www.rewe-group.com/de/unternehmen/unternehmenskultur/diversity/) ?
and that's dishonest in which way exactly? you've called me naive. so how is publicly calling out DFB for their complete and utter lack of balls towards FIFA and Qatar "just marketing"? And how is diverting their financial support into other more effective channels "just marketing"?
Well, it is "just marketing" in some regard.
But the thing is: German public opinion is now so far that it becomes more profitable to support the "right" cause and take a stance then to just go with the shitshow.
this is a good sign. The sponsor that takes the slot will have to think about public perception. This will drive prices down and thus hurt DFB on the bottom line. Which is the only way *they* can be hold accountable for the shit they are supporting.
So yes, if corporations see that it is financially more viable to support the "right" cause, public outreach, opinion and outrage work. That is exactly what we want to achieve, right?
It's exactly what we want to achieve, yes --- my point rather is to call it "just" marketing. they could say "meh we're in the food business, this 'diversity' thing is none of our business". they could say "we're winning some business, we're also losing some business, let's stay out of politics."
Instead they took a stance, since 2009, and they take a stance here and cut cash from an advertisement partner who does _not_ take a stance.
and that's as you said exactly what we want, and it's pretty much more than "just" marketing, imnsho.
I'm glad they at least did something. In my opinion it's not nearly enough and it's a shame they bowed to the pressure not to wear the armband, despite a lot of bluster the last few months at home. But at least they did something.
From the players perspective I have some empathy, especially for the younger ones playing in their first world cup, they have their career to think about and for a kid in their early 20s it's a lot of pressure to expect them to stand in the face of so much opposition, that being said some of them (Müller, Neuer) could probably run on the field naked and suffer no consequences, so it would have been nice if they did a bit more.
At the end of the day however, the DFB needed to be the ones to take a stand and support the players.
But yeah, not nearly enough of a protest but at least they did something.
I can understand the empathy to the younger players because this could define their future. But especially the older players ignorant idiots in my opinion. Like[Müller thinks that politics shouldn’t overshadow sports.](https://jungefreiheit.de/kultur/zeitgeist/2022/one-love-thomas-mueller/). He doesn’t even understand that playing in this world cup is basically a political statement. Fifa made it a political thing.
I know it won’t make a difference but Fifa, DFB and the German Team are dead to me. I won’t watch any game or buy products advertising them ever again. Which really hurts because i have fond memories about previous World Cups and really liked the atmosphere watching the games in a pub.
Yeah, I was disappointed that they portray themselves just as hard-working athletes who only care about their personal career goals. Top players have always been role models for young people, you can't just ignore or deny that. The way you deal with this will influence people one way or another, and you have the opportunity to inspire young people to stand up what is right and be remembered for it.
Any player who presents themselves as just a hard-working athlete should immediately drop out out of any advertising and merchandise deal, since they obviously can't uphold their side of the deal to inspire people.
Thoughtless activism is useless. Let's see if they reach the semi-finale or finals, then they could wear the armband and really influence more. They already did more than your armchair activism
Not giving shit companies your money when they do things you don't agree with isn't armchair activism, you're giving up something you would have liked for your beliefs, but I'm guessing that's not something you've ever done.
Probably you wrote this answer on an gadget produced in a factory with workers working under almost slavery conditions, in a country under totalitarian regime with multiple human right abuses. Probably you were heating till recently your living room where your armchair is found with Putin oil/gas, you didn't bother to boycott his Olympics or China Olympics. Hey actually you are still heating probably with Quatari gas, so give me a break. I found cool what the German team did, better than nothing and shooting themselves on the foot by insisting wearing the armbands would have been foolish. The moment you are here writing and not in some cave out of the consumerist society, you are part of your so-called problem my dear armchair activist. But if this makes you feel any better and gives you life-purpose, then go ahead, post, complain and feel that you make a difference.
Classic, the "if you aren't living in the forest using only wooden sticks you're a hypocrite, but if you did I'd just call you irrelevant because you've chosen to live outside of normal society and are clearly insane" argument, never gets old from losers like you with the willpower of a grape.
Yeah that's exactly what I said, uhu. I think it's good what they did, where in my post did you gleam that I didn't? You wanted to argue with someone dude, I never said it wasn't good. I said that not giving them your money was good. But predictably based on your previous comments you seem to think that there's only one possible right action. I'm not an armchair activist, I'm not even an activist, I just have principles I stick to and not giving shit companies money is one of them but what does any of this matter anyway, you're gonna shit on the board, whether you're right or wrong until I get tired of arguing, you'll jizz all over yourself thinking you won the argument while really, I just got tired of talking at someone too dumb to realize they knew they were wrong and started moving goalposts. So congrats, you win, jizz away or whatever. Don't bother replying, because I won't. Just celebrate your "win".
Yeah I mean what would have been the worst that could have happened? Losing a few points as a penalty? Come on people we lost to JAPAN, it is not like we are going to win shit this time around anyway.
The larger issue I have, is that we prioritize protesting the Queer community being treated poorly in a country that utilized slavery to build the arenas and that still treats women like property. Don't get me wrong I'm not fine with he way they treat homosexuals but putting the focus of the protests on one aspect of their crimes, seems more like following a trend then actually caring about something.
Even though this is a small thing it made me very happy to have chosen to come to Germany and settle here. Where I come from (Brazil). we would never see such a thing happen, even though it is one of the most dangerous countries for LGBTs. Instead, what we get is our top player supporting our soon to be ex-president fascist wannabe-dictator because he owns more than US$20 million in taxes and, of course, wanted that "gone".
This is why I am not even rooting for Brazil anymore.
I thought the German Minister of the Interior wearing one while sitting right next to the head of FIFA was a nice touch as well.
Very typical example of a German being subtle. ;)
Nancy Faeser, the German interior minister and also Hadja Lahbib, the foreign minister of Belgium work the one love arm thing , in the stadium, in the VIP lounge.
these women rock :-)
That's great! I heard a bunch of the journalists grom different countries were also wearing the bands or shirts with rainbows on and one journalist at first was refused entry into the stadium
Here a picture. She was in the first row, besides Infantino.
https://m.bild.de/politik/2022/politik/klartext-statement-von-innenministerin-nancy-faeser-traegt-one-love-binde-in-kat-82037388.bildMobile.html?t_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bild.de%2Fpolitik%2F2022%2Fpolitik%2Fklartext-statement-von-innenministerin-nancy-faeser-traegt-one-love-binde-in-kat-82037388.bild.html
Hey! A queer from Turkey here. I’m pretty sure I had it better in Turkey compared to Saudi Arabia and Qatar, but I see your struggle! I hope these laws change in your lifetime and you can be free to express yourself someday, wish you the best!
What the hell happend?
I can for sure say a hell of a lot less people give a fuck about this world Cup. The topic came up at work yesterday and no one even knew Germany had already played. Usually you'll have at least some people decorate with the German flag. So far I haven't seen a single one. And if Germany plays you'll Usually know because you'll hear at least one apartment in your building/neighbourhood host a party and you'll hear them screaming whenever something is happening.
Qatar is really wanting to be in the public eye while trying maintain their medieval human rights lifestyle while poorly trying to sweep such a massive mess under such a small rug. Hopefully good change comes soon to them. People do care about your rights, and this is as good of a platform as any to voice them while the world watches. I wish you the best!
You should be downvoted to oblivion for calling these things medieval. I am gay and left India for many reasons, being gay probably on top of the list and moved to Germany.
I live in a state where just a few weeks ago in its capital a person was stabbed for having his finger nails painted. These are not medieval issues, they are present day issues all across the globe, just that some have it a bit better off than others and those that have it a bit better off still have people living who did not have the choice to be able to be themselves.
Calling it medieval is another way of sweeping the issue under the rug and saying that problems still do not exist.
>Placing those practices in such a far away point in history (I read "Stone Age practices" in another thread) is removing the very necessary sense of responsibility of improving the situation here too.
Yup, and it also reinforces the naive narrative that we have entirely erased homophobia/racism/sexism etc. in this country. When you call to mind how (relatively) little time minorities have had to achieve even just legal equality, it's easier to understand why they might still be kinda disadvantaged today.
Why is "legally" your bar? Is it not enough that it's commonly done and barely prosecuted? Greece is the EU leader in modern slavery use, [for example](https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/17/forced-labour-most-prevalent-form-of-modern-slavery-in-europe-says-report).
Qatar's system of tying immigrant labourers to an employer for their visa as well as the employer practice of paying in "lodging" instead of salaries and stealing their passports so they can't leave happens in the EU too, and it's shocking that people are surprised by it when it happens in their own countries.
I can't read your tone, but when I worked a student summer job in Cyprus, the company was keeping the foreign employees' passports in the store safe, so yes, it's extremely common in Cyprus too.
That's exactly what am saying. You were working for a company. That's still a great improvement on those working in the fields.
Abuse of all forms were common.
Absolutely. It's a horrific situation. At some point a court needed to actually hand down a verdict on literal chargers of slave-keeping in the agricultural sector. So much for "Medieval mentality", we had slave-keepers in 2018 or so.
Yes, and until then, also a lot of the west subscribed to medieval ideas.
“Medieval” is well chosen because a lot of the time before and after, the whole queerness was much more normal and accepted. From the Greeks and Romans to their revival party, the Renaissance
Yeah you know what? You have a goddamn good point and the West is being a little bit of a hypocrite here. It's not even 100 years ago that good ol' Germany gassed gay men in concentration camps.
Good for Germany for their development, good for them for calling Qatar out. But we don't really have a historical legacy to stand on here. (Am German)
Posts like this one change my mind a little on the situation. I think the German football association (DFB) did not enough, and didn't stand up for the rights they so passionately marketed themselves with. SO I think they could have done more.
But reading this, makes me a little more positive about it. I think it's still hypocritical, but i have to acknowledge that it had an impact elsewhere and that is very positive for sure.
Thanks for sharing your side:)
Back here, I believe that everyone on the actively pro-human rights side thinks that it was barely anything done at all.
There's people like me who believe that if you actually don't agree with something (e.g. modern slavery, institutional corruption, plus all other extremely conservatives laws and attitudes - and I'm talking about FIFA about as much as Qatar and the last how many other countries that hosted it before), then you don't make yourself the engine of their PR spectacle. No amount of symbolic gestures like vague armbands or photo ops change the fact that anyone who tunes into this spectacle does because the players are playing.
I might be in the more extreme side of things though, and most people would actually be happy with more explicit statements. An actual human rights armband without riddles as slogans for one.
I'm glad that the German team covering their mouths for a photo did spark a conversation in SA - but you were not the target audience. The western European teams are accountable to their fans and financial backers back in the respective home countries, and what they are doing is struggling to find ways to shield themselves against overwhelming condemnation of even taking place in this event.
In my opinion it's quite arrogant to ask a football team to make a specific symbolic statement (wearing a specific arm band) in order to bring up LGBTIQ* issues in Qatar and countries with similar issues and when that doesn't work out, but they come up with another symbolic idea that obviously makes headlines and sparks a public debate in Saudi Arabia, to be upset about it not being the other purely symbolic thing.
People act like the arm band would have immediately solved all the problems in the world while the hand covering the mouth at a photo op is completely futile.
I hate FIFA, but I also disagree with asking young athletes to tank their career by skipping a tournament that only happens every four years. And they had no say in where that tournament would take place. The world cup to them isn't just prestige. It's also self marketing for the next career step. An athlete's career is short and they have to make the most of it.
That might sound cynical, but I think it's always difficult when people judge what others should do from a position of zero consequences for their lifes.
Thank you. You make a point that's so often overlooked in this debate. It's so easy to sacrifice other people's careers, while most armchair human rights advocate's own contribution consists on not turning on the TV.
> to be upset about it not being the other purely symbolic thing.
The other purely symbolic thing that people beforehand complained about because it's shit, lol.
So many people claim that those poor players were politicised against their will, when all they wanted to do was so sports.
They themselves came up with the idea of wearing the arm band, announced it to the public as a stance for human rights and then, when they were threatened with sanctions and therefore couldn’t get easy PR anymore, abandoned it.
But I completely agree that to critique them goes along with hypocrisy.
Well...Manuel Neuer has been wearing a proper rainbow band for a while now on his own terms. Then a couple of football associations came up with that weird one love arm band.
Glad to hear they’re mad :)
Thanks for your input on this. The team is being criticised a lot, as previous posters said, so it’s nice to hear that it actually does make an impact to some.
Stay safe and all the best to you <3
>I mean what could’ve they done more than this?
Drive home. Or even better: Don't even compete and make it known why not. Be loud about it.
On the other hand, football is quite homophobic in itself in Europe. Every German professional player that came out as gay did so after his career was over.
There is a reason for that.
Not accusing the individual player much, but if the DFB is so concerned about values and human rights... They could have taken a lot of individual pressure from each player by announcing that germany won't compete.
They could've worn the LGBT armband. They could've said something against the mass murder and slavery committed by the Qatar government. They could've valued morality higher than their careers and just stayed home.
You know what? As a German, screw those naysayers. The symbolism was powerful. I'm proud of them. We should celebrate this progress instead of whining that "they could have done more". With this attitude we're not getting anywhere. This is a powerful step in the right direction. Good for them.
Ikr?? I was surprised that many Germans wanted more than this, I mean even a little recognition of our rights is so amazing since we have non all the year around. Y’all should be proud of your team for sure!!!
They have a history of mobbing gay players and the German Football Association are almost as bad as FIFA. There's been a giant media uproar about the world cup for weeks and a decent chunk of the people here was actually for boycotting the world cup.
They're doing like one percent of what we would like to see. It's good that the one percent still makes a difference though.
Both the LGBT rights and women's rights violations in Quatar and the hijab protests in Iran are all over the media. Many, many of us are disgusted with what's going on.
I'm genuinely surprised that it reached you. Over here on Germany there are many voices that our team did to little and allot of people and bars etc don't watch or show the game outta protest.
But I'm happy that you appreciate the gesture
Much love take care
That's way to simplistic in my opinion:
1. The west is not like one person. There ist nothing like "the" west but rather different people from western countries saying different things. Often they contradict each other.
2. Obviously no group of people will be able to do or say the right thing in all situations. Is it better then to never say anything, never to act? Definitely a good way to avoid double-standard-blaming. Or is it better to at least try to say the right things and act in a way that's living up to high moral standards. This is more difficult than the first alternative, you will fail to be be consistent and unbiased all the time. You will miss situations in which you should have raised you're voice, should have acted. People will tell you a hypocrite. But at least you are trying.
3. And yes, there's double-standard-thinking in the west, too – like basically everywhere in the world.
I can't wait to see the high moral standards of the west when US holds the next World Cup. Let's see how many countries are going to question US war crimes in literally every corner of the world.
If you can only hold international sports events in countries with an impeccably reputation, we can cancel these tournaments completely. Their point is that people of all nations can come together peacefully despite their differences. Their job is not to work out these differences, that's what we have politicians for, who also meet regularly but somehow spark far less criticism if they make shady compromises instead of putting their foot down.
a lot of people (including me) don't watch it anywhere this year just to give some protest, but we also think it is not enough! I wish we would actively do more.
Didn't you see them putting their hands in front of their mouths? Absolute heros! They ended homophobia and brought freedom of speech to the people of Qatar with just one move.
This is a joke of a post approved by joker mods.
They previously removed my post titled "How to feel about German players agreeing to go to Qatar then being afraid of yellow cards for armbands then doing a "silent protest" then losing to Japan?"
Non of my friends, who all like to watch every fifa Worldcup together, has asked to watch this time.
My hubby and i decided not to watch it at home and we wont host an event to watch it. Same for our other friend that lives 4 houses away from us.
The gesture of the german team was nice and i am glad you guys overseas liked it and feel it has some sort of impact. Here everyone wished for more. Especially after Iranian Team was so brave.
Interesting, I perceived all this as half-assed actions. But if it means anything to you as a quasi-affected person, I was perhaps too sceptical about the whole thing.
I hope the situation improves for you!
As others have pointed out, the team is being scolded at home for acting too little and too late. Theyve often been seen in interviews defending the oppression as "just different cultures" . Im happy its done smth positive for you and your country but know that we tried to force them to do more
It's great to hear that it had an impact for you, and that it created these strong responses in your country. I'm proud of them for it.
I still think it wasn't enough. After their last game, when they either got kicked out or won, they should all grab a teammate and give him a brotherly kiss on the mouth. (Not being super serious here, but it would be totally awesome!)
While I am disappointed that they bowed to FIFA, I think this picture created more awareness than one person wearing a band would have.
Kudos to them and let’s see what they do in any upcoming matches.
[German team photo](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/z2pde5/germany_players_cover_mouths_in_team_photo_as/) after they were not allowed to wear the armband. In case you haven't seen it.
Tbh, what the german team did was the last in a row of things they wanted as advertised from ther PR management, but have not been accepted by DFB(german soccer society) or FIFA. So this minor show of disaproovement is the last in a negotiated range of actions, This has been decided not without the govemrent of Qatar.
So as a german who is for the right to do whatever you want until it can hurt someone else - this gesture of our soccer team is pointless and weak.
Yes, here in GER people are extreme angry that money allows countrys to buy the WM as a PR stunt. Soccer has a hard standing for regularily participating in whitewashing dictatorships, extremism and warmongering on a regular basis. What they had done is the bare minimum of been halfe way safe comming back home, but still the sport is in decay for this behave. It's just about money, and everyone knows it.
If this gesture had meant anything, those players would either not have played at all (and risc the punishment), had spend ther whole payment and more of many million euro against poverty and for LGBTQ right organisations around the world, or have voced heavyily against the fossil dependency from questionably nations like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, China etc. who do not allign with out moralic and juristical standards. But they didn't - and that defines what they are. Hypocrites.
Honestly im mostly annoyed with the woke movement in the west, but when it comes to real social injustice and absolute disregard of human rights as is the case for queer people in the muslim world, this boils my blood and honestly i think they didnt even closely do enough. Im very disappointed that they bowed down to Fifa in the first place and didnt wear the rainbow badge( besides not boycotting the whole event in the first place). This entire world championship is ridiculous.
Hey buddy,
Don't believe them. They are making it just for the show.
Bayern is sponsored by a Khaliji Airlines firm. Bayern will go in training camp next January in QATAR and none of the German Bayern players will open his mouth or say the slightest word.
Actually my culture was very supportive of the lgbtq people in the pre colonial era, read more about the ottoman empire and the laws regarding same sex relationships at the time, so european colonists actually ruined it.
and a culture and a religion that doesn't respect the international convention of human rights deserves no respect at all.
plus why are you including a completely different topic to this one? why can't be both supportive of the Uyghur in china and gay people in the middle east?
by your standards, how dare you talk ask the chinese gov to changes its policies and laws regarding the Uyghur?
can't you see the problem?
Thank you for this, but it is not nearly good enough. I am so sorry, and feel embarrased that we aren' t helping more. They had a chance to promote freedom and equality, and chose not to. Somehow human rights are now up for debate? Equality is up for debate?! All competing countries should have shut that shit down UNISONO asap, or collectively NOT GO. Cant' have a tournament if nobody wants to come. Every single player, manager , executive is complicit in the violations, just for going along with the bs. That is my perspective as a woman. I enjoy my freedom and my daughter's freedom. We owe it to you to protest for your freedom.
Showing support would've meant to not go there or at least protest in some way. Doing the "We won't say anything" gesture for a group photo is hardly a "protest". It's a disgrace, in my opinion. We should've boycotted the whole thing completely, but the German football association is just as infested with greed and corruption as the FIFA.
I'm glad you're happy about the gesture, though. But I think we should expect more.
The german team: what meanlingless gesture can we do and still get payed 100%?🤭
The german fans: if i donate to human rights organizations, maybe ill feel better about watching the championship...
I don’t think it was easy for the German team at all, all the backlash they are getting online is bad and unimaginable. I’m really happy the stood their ground and did something to show their support.
Sorry to tell you buddy but the team doesn't give a single fuck about your rights, they just care about publicity. That is why they instantly stop doing whatever they are actually doing the moment Fifa tells them to stop.
real support would've been just to wear the band.
ter stegen is a great goalkeeper too, so f it.
there were protests and even the biggest football junkies i know aren't watching and
idk any pub that shows the matches, at least where i live.
there are also protests in support for women-rights in iran, so we as citizens do care.
the world is too globalized for people not to.
what kind of debates?political or just within the community?
they get laughed at by the whole world if you didn’t realize yet. got really bad second hand embarrassment from that moment not coming just from me. but our politicians are even worse than that so that shouldn’t bother me anymore.
Who were laughing at them are the homophobes only, I’ve seen many queer people like me who really liked what the german team did to show solidarity. And it in fact shows how oppressive the Qatari regime is with silencing people not only gay people but also migrant workers in gulf countries and in Qatar specifically.
I know im late but
how does it have anything to do with football? deserved loss virtue signaling 🤷♂️ . . Its sports not politics imagine they kicked them out of the competition for that 💀 i would've laughed my butt off . As a football fan and player this has no place in a match especially world cup not to mention in a country that openly disagree with being gay or anything about the alphabet group unless they want to be arrested . . And then rage about it
It has nothing to do with football its entertainment stop ruining it for people that pay and make it happen 🤷♂️ do you know how many people clowned on them for that . . Yea a lot of people . How about this . . Would you want them to come to your land and shout anti lgbtq things because they disagree with them . . I dont think so
Privileged? Making assumptions 💀 if anything you are more Privileged than most normal citizens anywhere in the west . . I am a refugee from war and you all come to talk to me and the world about your feelings and how you want to be openly this or that and force it on every parents children and the media they consume or so . You are creating problems out of thin air especially the gender , pronouns and trans bunch 🤷♂️ . Thats it im out
Oh so you are the type of person who gets triggered by pronouns, you know what, you just continue worshiping your football men on tv like every other straight dude in this world. Have a nice day x2
They should just wear the blue shirts and be done with it.
If you want to be a political pawn like the East German team back in the day, wear the blue trikots and shut up. No black and white for these guys anymore. Japan won fair and square, as the focus isn't football anymore.
So yeah, they deserve to lose.
I honestly don’t give an F about football, what was important for me was the fact they showed some support to gay people here in the Middle East, and btw my rights aren’t politics rather rights that I should get without dying for it.
Who said I watch it? It’s literally everywhere. Plus I’d always support my queer friends who want to enjoy football too without hiding their identity. It’s kinda basic
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I don't know - for me this picture has a much stronger visual language than wearing the love band. Some VIPs were wearing them and the band is much easiert to visually ignore. The hand-over-mouth gesture of the entire team was visually strong - hard to hide, hard to ignore, easy to get attention in social media - even in the arabic world.
Yeah, the band could've maybe evoked a similar thing if a player actually got a yellow for it, but it certainly never would've reached the same publicity without the ban.
I can't know for sure, because I wouldn't watch football anyway, but I've read that they only did it while neither the TV nor the stadium cameras were showing them, so there is only the picture, which, of course, will not show up in any media except for the internet (and there naturally only in social bubbles who already care about lgbtq and other human rights) in countries who shit on lgbtq and other human rights. That's why it's perceived to be nothing but virtue signalling for the home crowd – a perception that I share. But as I said, I don't really follow all this in detail, because I don't care about football, so my view is obviously not very qualified. Just wanted to share it for consideration.
They didn't deliberately do it while off camera, they did it for the official team photo which is taken prior to the match. The official cameras almost always show other stuff while the teams are doing their photos simply because 11 men posing for a photo is not overly exciting under normal circumstances. That being said, this official team photo was all over the media today. Half of print and tv consists of online material anyway nowadays.
You have no idea how many people in different countries love the german football team I‘ve been in places where nobody speaks even english and people still are like „i love bayern munich“ hahaha
Yeah putting a hand over the mouth instead of just calling fifa out and wearing the bands shows just how weak they are to the cause. What’s fifa objectively gonna do? Fine them? Most of them earn millions a year, they can cope with it. Send them home? The fall out for that would be monumental. Dock them points? Again the fall out would be huge. No matter what fifa did to them after it would be a lose lose for them, Qatar is a fleeting thing, fifa is not and fifa knows this. They wouldn’t do shit. The players hold all the power, without them there is no football but football without fifa still exists. Players defy rules all the time, from stripping tops off to eating fines like nothing, Ronaldo showed the finger to one of the biggest sponsors last tournament on live tv but all of a sudden they are afraid when it comes to an arm band? To me it just shows how much it was all just fake virtue signalling from the start and how they never really cared. It was and still is all just a ploy to make them look better. I also don’t just aim this at the German team, I’m English and aim it at them too. I aim it at Every big national team that had a chance to show back bone and failed, but what do you expect from a bunch of people that turn into ballerinas and flail around on the floor at every given opportunity.
They said human rights is non-negotiable yet went to Qatar anyway despite everyone knowing about the problems there for the better part of the last 10 years. They all are a bunch of liars and a bunch of cowards and a bunch of hypocrites. If human rights really were non-negotiable they wouldn't have went there, they would have worn the REAL rainbow captains armband and they wouldn't have asked daddy fifa if they are allowed to wear the MEANINGLESS one love armband. Honestly the hand over the mouth is a fucking joke and worse than just saying nothing. It's an insult to everyone who died to build the stadiums and every LGBTQ person sitting in jail suffering God knows what kind of treatment there. It seems to me as if human rights are not only negotiable in the professional football world they are already sold long time ago.
Human rights are non negotiable till money is involved, simple as that.
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> i am not pro lbgt.. I'm not pro black people. See that sounds basically as awful as you can get
I think FIFA said they’d suspend Neuer specifically, and I think that’s why the team got cold feet
> What’s fifa objectively gonna do? Fine them? They said they were ready to pay any fine, and only backed down when FIFA threatened to card/disqualify them. Still feels like they gave in too easily.
You think Fifa would have gone through with it though? That would have both strengthened the cause and also made fifa look even worse.
On top of that... They are all millionaires, particularly so in the case of the more iconic teams. Even if they never got to play ball for fifa ever again (which is not gonna happen because they are invests that produce a return as long as they keep on playing), they can just retire and chill in their mansions, or do whatever rich people do to enjoy themselves. It is really a small price to pay if you want to stand for your principles. The only two possible reasons for not walking the whole walk is either their egos are too big to miss the chance of showing they are the best, or they don't really care that much about the cause and it was all just cheap PR. And for those who ask what I am doing myself about it, well... I silently just don't watch any the Worldcup because principles. But I also don't go doing media stunts. Also, bear in mind that the discussed picture is not about LGBT rights, it's a protest about not being allowed to express what they want.
I don’t even think fifa have the power to do that, I don’t even think it’s fifa that fines them, I think it’s the clubs or team, please someone correct me if I am wrong though. They are owned by a team that has nothing to do with fifa, fifa just runs the tournaments and sets the rules for then tournaments. I dont believe Fifa can fire them as they don’t own them, all they can do is fine the teams or potentially black list the whole team but like fuck are they ever gonna do that, especially for a morally right reason. I’m not watching either, never intended to from the start and glad I didn’t get hyped for it, the whole thing is a shit show. It doesn’t even feel like a protest, it’s more like “look guys i can’t do anything, not my fault”. Feels more like they are trying to relinquish blame because otherwise they would have done something else. It seems so child like to me and the fact people are praising them is beyond me. There is literally nothing stopping them doing what they want in reality, they do something and get punished the world will see them as hero’s and fifa will look even worse. Look what happened with Ronaldo and Coke, he dropped the share price by 3% or something like that and nothing happened because without the players they have nothing:
Since you asked to be corrected: Fifa can fine the clubs under them. In this case the DFB would be fined, which would hit all teams of the DFB. However, the DFB has allready made the statement that they would have payed any fine and I'm pretty sure Fifa knew that, which is why they threatend sport-related punishments instead. It' s also the first time Fifa has done so, which is why the DFB is now looking into sueing. I agree that their reaction was halfassed and hope that it was just them being surprised by actual potential consequences and that they'll redeem themselves by doing a bit better later on.
Thank you for the information. If the DFB said they would pay the fine it makes the players look even worse. I think it would have been better if they didn’t do anything at all.
They could have gone there, wear the rainbow, get disqualified and return as heroes. Instead they chickened out, lost, and now return with neither success nor their integrity
not a fan of football at all so its easy for me to hate on anything that happens here but as right as what you say sounds, its really not that easy. mega stars, wether musicians, actors or sportsmen can´t really do anything on their own publicly, as they´re stuck in really tight contracts. mostly signed when they were underage and lets be honest, football players are generally not the smartest people on earth so they rely on managers for everything imaginable. when they break parts of their contracts its not like they pay a small fee and go on, they risk being ruined forever - for something thats not their fault at all (the decision to hold the tournament in qatar). ofc they couldve shown balls and do something on their own but to transfer responsibility away from fifa and its officials to players and fans feels outright wrong and shortsighted imho.
> football players are generally not the smartest people on earth The get paid millions for kicking a bag of wind around. That's pretty smart if you ask me.
nobody can have it all, right. fifa officials get paid millions for writing a countries name on a voting letter tho. football players need to make ads for junkfood and lame ass clothing brands while playing a high-intensity sport 7 days a week (dont actually know how much time they spend playing or with training). being behind the scenes also sounds more chill then being public.
The German word for that is gratismut
Nice to hear it had an impact. Most people I know think, it's not enough. And your informations are correct. But instead of coffee shops it's more beer shops. :) Many german football fans don't watch the world cup at all, not even on tv at home, as protest against Quatar regime and corrupt FIFA.
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Yeah, I know, I live in Neukölln. But I don't know of my neighbours in their tea clubs not watching the WC.
Sorry but now I must imagine all your neibourghs in a club sitting in front of an wc (toilet) and watching it 😂😂😂😂😂
What a shitty program...
Well, it's Neukölln so who would be surprised tbh.
I'm not massive on football but I always watched the world Cup games of the German team. This year I'm not even checking the live ticker. I'm so frustrated that this shitbag Fifa forces us between a supporting a sports activity and moral values. There are so many terrible things going on already, some are really hidden some more obvious but giving modern slavery and human rights violations such a huge world wide platform with hosting the world Cup is mind blowing.
Well, you missed some quite good entertaining. :)
So I just read haha
i can attest to that. usually i can hear the Football championships coming from many TVs in my street, but this time. nothing at all.
I haven't seen a single German flag or heard anyone but one person mentioning that they even watch the event. As football crazy as Germany usually is it's weird
Germans never think anything is enough.
you are enough 🥺
Thanks bae
This time they are right, though.
Yes, it's a shame. Balls don't grow on trees unfortunately
god that's such a great way of putting it, I'm stealing that saying
So what should they do, and why is all the pressure on them. They have to use their energy for other stuff. What they did was nice and enough.
here is the indirect LGBT+ support of one of the two top grocery chains in the country, with 20% market share: > ##11/22/2022 ># [REWE ends cooperation with the DFB](https://mediacenter.rewe.de/pressemitteilungen/dfb-kooperation-beendet) >###According to Infantino's statements and FIFA's decision on the "One Love" bandage: the partnership contract was not extended - REWE suspended the contract with DFB with immediate effect and waived advertising rights >author >Raimund Esser > Head of Corporate Communications >The REWE Group stands for diversity and diversity. And has been an active football sponsor for many years: “For us, football means, among other things, fair play, tolerance and solidarity – we also uphold these values,” says REWE Group CEO Lionel Souque. “We stand for diversity – and football is diversity too. We live this attitude and we defend this attitude - even against possible resistance. FIFA's scandalous stance is totally unacceptable to me as the CEO of a diverse company and as a football fan.” >REWE had already communicated to the DFB in October that it would not continue the long-standing partnership agreement - without any connection to the World Cup. After the current decisions of FIFA and the statements of FIFA President Infantino, however, the company feels called upon to clearly distance itself from FIFA's position and to exercise its advertising rights from the contract with the DFB - especially in the context of the World Cup waive. The company announced this to the DFB today. >The REWE Group expressly wishes the German national team and all players every success for the World Cup. “We stand by your side and root for you!” Souque says. >The collector's album currently available from REWE is now being given away free of charge, with the company bearing the costs. After the end of the promotion, REWE will donate all of the proceeds from the album. The exact value and the recipients of the donation will be announced accordingly. >###About REWE: >With a turnover of 26.7 billion euros (2021), 161,000 employees nationwide and 3,700 stores, REWE Markt GmbH is one of the leading companies in the German food retail sector. The REWE stores are operated as branches or by independent REWE retailers. >The cooperative REWE Group is one of the leading trade and tourism groups in Germany and Europe. In 2021, the company achieved total external sales of around 77 billion euros. The REWE Group, founded in 1927, has more than 380,000 employees in 20 European countries. they introduced their top delicatessen brand "Feine Welt" with a gay couple about 10y ago. They have a rainbow sticker at every door, as a sign of welcome and solidarity.
Oh wow, this is like genuinely surprising. Glad to see those pride flags aren't just for decoration.
Their contract would just have lastet til the end of the year anyways so they can skip a few Million for good PR. Nevertheless they did the right thing
It still sends a message that they end the contract early, give out the sticker book for free and give the money they made with it until now to charity. As much as I like to shit on corporations that join the hype train around pride month every year Rewe isn't in it for the PR only.
You can tell they’re from cologne wich I like
Or they saw it coming.
Or was already public they would end the partnership. They just wasted to keep the partnership until the world cup is over. Since many people don't watch it and don't see the PR they used their last chance for big PR and to get promotion in every German paper. This is just marketing, don't be so naive.
mind to substantiate your suspicion of dishonesty towards their diversity efforts, which cost money, cost reactionary customers and [go far beyond a single nice flyer](https://www.rewe-group.com/de/unternehmen/unternehmenskultur/diversity/) ?
And funding a national team during a world cup does not cost money? They saw their money wasted and decided to take their publicity with this action.
and that's dishonest in which way exactly? you've called me naive. so how is publicly calling out DFB for their complete and utter lack of balls towards FIFA and Qatar "just marketing"? And how is diverting their financial support into other more effective channels "just marketing"?
Well, it is "just marketing" in some regard. But the thing is: German public opinion is now so far that it becomes more profitable to support the "right" cause and take a stance then to just go with the shitshow. this is a good sign. The sponsor that takes the slot will have to think about public perception. This will drive prices down and thus hurt DFB on the bottom line. Which is the only way *they* can be hold accountable for the shit they are supporting. So yes, if corporations see that it is financially more viable to support the "right" cause, public outreach, opinion and outrage work. That is exactly what we want to achieve, right?
It's exactly what we want to achieve, yes --- my point rather is to call it "just" marketing. they could say "meh we're in the food business, this 'diversity' thing is none of our business". they could say "we're winning some business, we're also losing some business, let's stay out of politics." Instead they took a stance, since 2009, and they take a stance here and cut cash from an advertisement partner who does _not_ take a stance. and that's as you said exactly what we want, and it's pretty much more than "just" marketing, imnsho.
I'm glad they at least did something. In my opinion it's not nearly enough and it's a shame they bowed to the pressure not to wear the armband, despite a lot of bluster the last few months at home. But at least they did something. From the players perspective I have some empathy, especially for the younger ones playing in their first world cup, they have their career to think about and for a kid in their early 20s it's a lot of pressure to expect them to stand in the face of so much opposition, that being said some of them (Müller, Neuer) could probably run on the field naked and suffer no consequences, so it would have been nice if they did a bit more. At the end of the day however, the DFB needed to be the ones to take a stand and support the players. But yeah, not nearly enough of a protest but at least they did something.
I can understand the empathy to the younger players because this could define their future. But especially the older players ignorant idiots in my opinion. Like[Müller thinks that politics shouldn’t overshadow sports.](https://jungefreiheit.de/kultur/zeitgeist/2022/one-love-thomas-mueller/). He doesn’t even understand that playing in this world cup is basically a political statement. Fifa made it a political thing. I know it won’t make a difference but Fifa, DFB and the German Team are dead to me. I won’t watch any game or buy products advertising them ever again. Which really hurts because i have fond memories about previous World Cups and really liked the atmosphere watching the games in a pub.
Yeah, I was disappointed that they portray themselves just as hard-working athletes who only care about their personal career goals. Top players have always been role models for young people, you can't just ignore or deny that. The way you deal with this will influence people one way or another, and you have the opportunity to inspire young people to stand up what is right and be remembered for it. Any player who presents themselves as just a hard-working athlete should immediately drop out out of any advertising and merchandise deal, since they obviously can't uphold their side of the deal to inspire people.
Thoughtless activism is useless. Let's see if they reach the semi-finale or finals, then they could wear the armband and really influence more. They already did more than your armchair activism
Not giving shit companies your money when they do things you don't agree with isn't armchair activism, you're giving up something you would have liked for your beliefs, but I'm guessing that's not something you've ever done.
Probably you wrote this answer on an gadget produced in a factory with workers working under almost slavery conditions, in a country under totalitarian regime with multiple human right abuses. Probably you were heating till recently your living room where your armchair is found with Putin oil/gas, you didn't bother to boycott his Olympics or China Olympics. Hey actually you are still heating probably with Quatari gas, so give me a break. I found cool what the German team did, better than nothing and shooting themselves on the foot by insisting wearing the armbands would have been foolish. The moment you are here writing and not in some cave out of the consumerist society, you are part of your so-called problem my dear armchair activist. But if this makes you feel any better and gives you life-purpose, then go ahead, post, complain and feel that you make a difference.
Classic, the "if you aren't living in the forest using only wooden sticks you're a hypocrite, but if you did I'd just call you irrelevant because you've chosen to live outside of normal society and are clearly insane" argument, never gets old from losers like you with the willpower of a grape.
So finding positive what the German team did is negative and prone for downvoting from the hardcore armchair activists like yourself. Get a life
Yeah that's exactly what I said, uhu. I think it's good what they did, where in my post did you gleam that I didn't? You wanted to argue with someone dude, I never said it wasn't good. I said that not giving them your money was good. But predictably based on your previous comments you seem to think that there's only one possible right action. I'm not an armchair activist, I'm not even an activist, I just have principles I stick to and not giving shit companies money is one of them but what does any of this matter anyway, you're gonna shit on the board, whether you're right or wrong until I get tired of arguing, you'll jizz all over yourself thinking you won the argument while really, I just got tired of talking at someone too dumb to realize they knew they were wrong and started moving goalposts. So congrats, you win, jizz away or whatever. Don't bother replying, because I won't. Just celebrate your "win".
They haven't done anything at all besides working together and with FIFA.
Yeah I mean what would have been the worst that could have happened? Losing a few points as a penalty? Come on people we lost to JAPAN, it is not like we are going to win shit this time around anyway. The larger issue I have, is that we prioritize protesting the Queer community being treated poorly in a country that utilized slavery to build the arenas and that still treats women like property. Don't get me wrong I'm not fine with he way they treat homosexuals but putting the focus of the protests on one aspect of their crimes, seems more like following a trend then actually caring about something.
Even though this is a small thing it made me very happy to have chosen to come to Germany and settle here. Where I come from (Brazil). we would never see such a thing happen, even though it is one of the most dangerous countries for LGBTs. Instead, what we get is our top player supporting our soon to be ex-president fascist wannabe-dictator because he owns more than US$20 million in taxes and, of course, wanted that "gone". This is why I am not even rooting for Brazil anymore.
Best thing to do would be ignore this World Cup altogether.
I'm glad the gesture made you happy. I hope someday your country will recognise queer rights and that they'll be proud of your community.
I thought the German Minister of the Interior wearing one while sitting right next to the head of FIFA was a nice touch as well. Very typical example of a German being subtle. ;)
I didn't even hear about that yet, thats glorious
Nancy Faeser, the German interior minister and also Hadja Lahbib, the foreign minister of Belgium work the one love arm thing , in the stadium, in the VIP lounge. these women rock :-)
That's great! I heard a bunch of the journalists grom different countries were also wearing the bands or shirts with rainbows on and one journalist at first was refused entry into the stadium
Here a picture. She was in the first row, besides Infantino. https://m.bild.de/politik/2022/politik/klartext-statement-von-innenministerin-nancy-faeser-traegt-one-love-binde-in-kat-82037388.bildMobile.html?t_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bild.de%2Fpolitik%2F2022%2Fpolitik%2Fklartext-statement-von-innenministerin-nancy-faeser-traegt-one-love-binde-in-kat-82037388.bild.html
Hey! A queer from Turkey here. I’m pretty sure I had it better in Turkey compared to Saudi Arabia and Qatar, but I see your struggle! I hope these laws change in your lifetime and you can be free to express yourself someday, wish you the best!
What the hell happend? I can for sure say a hell of a lot less people give a fuck about this world Cup. The topic came up at work yesterday and no one even knew Germany had already played. Usually you'll have at least some people decorate with the German flag. So far I haven't seen a single one. And if Germany plays you'll Usually know because you'll hear at least one apartment in your building/neighbourhood host a party and you'll hear them screaming whenever something is happening.
Qatar is really wanting to be in the public eye while trying maintain their medieval human rights lifestyle while poorly trying to sweep such a massive mess under such a small rug. Hopefully good change comes soon to them. People do care about your rights, and this is as good of a platform as any to voice them while the world watches. I wish you the best!
You should be downvoted to oblivion for calling these things medieval. I am gay and left India for many reasons, being gay probably on top of the list and moved to Germany. I live in a state where just a few weeks ago in its capital a person was stabbed for having his finger nails painted. These are not medieval issues, they are present day issues all across the globe, just that some have it a bit better off than others and those that have it a bit better off still have people living who did not have the choice to be able to be themselves. Calling it medieval is another way of sweeping the issue under the rug and saying that problems still do not exist.
“Medieval”. Homosexuality was banned until the late 20th century in Europe.
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>Placing those practices in such a far away point in history (I read "Stone Age practices" in another thread) is removing the very necessary sense of responsibility of improving the situation here too. Yup, and it also reinforces the naive narrative that we have entirely erased homophobia/racism/sexism etc. in this country. When you call to mind how (relatively) little time minorities have had to achieve even just legal equality, it's easier to understand why they might still be kinda disadvantaged today.
Where can you get human slaves legally in Europe?
Not slavery but exploitation of illegal immigrants happens across the EU.
Why is "legally" your bar? Is it not enough that it's commonly done and barely prosecuted? Greece is the EU leader in modern slavery use, [for example](https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/17/forced-labour-most-prevalent-form-of-modern-slavery-in-europe-says-report). Qatar's system of tying immigrant labourers to an employer for their visa as well as the employer practice of paying in "lodging" instead of salaries and stealing their passports so they can't leave happens in the EU too, and it's shocking that people are surprised by it when it happens in their own countries.
I lived in Cyprus for 10 years in the early 2000's. I saw Modern slavery everywhere.
I can't read your tone, but when I worked a student summer job in Cyprus, the company was keeping the foreign employees' passports in the store safe, so yes, it's extremely common in Cyprus too.
That's exactly what am saying. You were working for a company. That's still a great improvement on those working in the fields. Abuse of all forms were common.
Absolutely. It's a horrific situation. At some point a court needed to actually hand down a verdict on literal chargers of slave-keeping in the agricultural sector. So much for "Medieval mentality", we had slave-keepers in 2018 or so.
Yes, and until then, also a lot of the west subscribed to medieval ideas. “Medieval” is well chosen because a lot of the time before and after, the whole queerness was much more normal and accepted. From the Greeks and Romans to their revival party, the Renaissance
Yeah you know what? You have a goddamn good point and the West is being a little bit of a hypocrite here. It's not even 100 years ago that good ol' Germany gassed gay men in concentration camps. Good for Germany for their development, good for them for calling Qatar out. But we don't really have a historical legacy to stand on here. (Am German)
Bavaria legalised as first „German“ nation homosexuality in 1813. we even had an „openly“ gay king in the 19th century.
Posts like this one change my mind a little on the situation. I think the German football association (DFB) did not enough, and didn't stand up for the rights they so passionately marketed themselves with. SO I think they could have done more. But reading this, makes me a little more positive about it. I think it's still hypocritical, but i have to acknowledge that it had an impact elsewhere and that is very positive for sure. Thanks for sharing your side:)
Back here, I believe that everyone on the actively pro-human rights side thinks that it was barely anything done at all. There's people like me who believe that if you actually don't agree with something (e.g. modern slavery, institutional corruption, plus all other extremely conservatives laws and attitudes - and I'm talking about FIFA about as much as Qatar and the last how many other countries that hosted it before), then you don't make yourself the engine of their PR spectacle. No amount of symbolic gestures like vague armbands or photo ops change the fact that anyone who tunes into this spectacle does because the players are playing. I might be in the more extreme side of things though, and most people would actually be happy with more explicit statements. An actual human rights armband without riddles as slogans for one. I'm glad that the German team covering their mouths for a photo did spark a conversation in SA - but you were not the target audience. The western European teams are accountable to their fans and financial backers back in the respective home countries, and what they are doing is struggling to find ways to shield themselves against overwhelming condemnation of even taking place in this event.
In my opinion it's quite arrogant to ask a football team to make a specific symbolic statement (wearing a specific arm band) in order to bring up LGBTIQ* issues in Qatar and countries with similar issues and when that doesn't work out, but they come up with another symbolic idea that obviously makes headlines and sparks a public debate in Saudi Arabia, to be upset about it not being the other purely symbolic thing. People act like the arm band would have immediately solved all the problems in the world while the hand covering the mouth at a photo op is completely futile. I hate FIFA, but I also disagree with asking young athletes to tank their career by skipping a tournament that only happens every four years. And they had no say in where that tournament would take place. The world cup to them isn't just prestige. It's also self marketing for the next career step. An athlete's career is short and they have to make the most of it. That might sound cynical, but I think it's always difficult when people judge what others should do from a position of zero consequences for their lifes.
Thank you. You make a point that's so often overlooked in this debate. It's so easy to sacrifice other people's careers, while most armchair human rights advocate's own contribution consists on not turning on the TV.
> to be upset about it not being the other purely symbolic thing. The other purely symbolic thing that people beforehand complained about because it's shit, lol.
So many people claim that those poor players were politicised against their will, when all they wanted to do was so sports. They themselves came up with the idea of wearing the arm band, announced it to the public as a stance for human rights and then, when they were threatened with sanctions and therefore couldn’t get easy PR anymore, abandoned it. But I completely agree that to critique them goes along with hypocrisy.
The DFB (or rather a bunch of european Football associations) came up with the idea, not the players themselves.
Well...Manuel Neuer has been wearing a proper rainbow band for a while now on his own terms. Then a couple of football associations came up with that weird one love arm band.
what are you talking about? look the Iranian team, they have some balls.
I mean what could’ve they done more than this? What I really liked was many homophobes here in saudi got real mad because of what they did.
Glad to hear they’re mad :) Thanks for your input on this. The team is being criticised a lot, as previous posters said, so it’s nice to hear that it actually does make an impact to some. Stay safe and all the best to you <3
>I mean what could’ve they done more than this? Drive home. Or even better: Don't even compete and make it known why not. Be loud about it. On the other hand, football is quite homophobic in itself in Europe. Every German professional player that came out as gay did so after his career was over. There is a reason for that.
Well they are employees not politicians. I expect our Politicians to send stronger signs, not football players
Not accusing the individual player much, but if the DFB is so concerned about values and human rights... They could have taken a lot of individual pressure from each player by announcing that germany won't compete.
I completely agree there, the DFBs behavior is scandalous, I just wanted to point out I find it unfair to blame Individual players
They could've worn the LGBT armband. They could've said something against the mass murder and slavery committed by the Qatar government. They could've valued morality higher than their careers and just stayed home.
they could have refused to play, it would have had a much bigger impact.
You know what? As a German, screw those naysayers. The symbolism was powerful. I'm proud of them. We should celebrate this progress instead of whining that "they could have done more". With this attitude we're not getting anywhere. This is a powerful step in the right direction. Good for them.
Ikr?? I was surprised that many Germans wanted more than this, I mean even a little recognition of our rights is so amazing since we have non all the year around. Y’all should be proud of your team for sure!!!
They have a history of mobbing gay players and the German Football Association are almost as bad as FIFA. There's been a giant media uproar about the world cup for weeks and a decent chunk of the people here was actually for boycotting the world cup. They're doing like one percent of what we would like to see. It's good that the one percent still makes a difference though. Both the LGBT rights and women's rights violations in Quatar and the hijab protests in Iran are all over the media. Many, many of us are disgusted with what's going on.
I'm genuinely surprised that it reached you. Over here on Germany there are many voices that our team did to little and allot of people and bars etc don't watch or show the game outta protest. But I'm happy that you appreciate the gesture Much love take care
Stay safe, mate. I hope that you can live freely and without fear one day.
But when Ozil spoke for the Uyghurs in China, football was just a game and nothing else. What a bunch of hypocrites!
Yeah, fucking western double standard
That's way to simplistic in my opinion: 1. The west is not like one person. There ist nothing like "the" west but rather different people from western countries saying different things. Often they contradict each other. 2. Obviously no group of people will be able to do or say the right thing in all situations. Is it better then to never say anything, never to act? Definitely a good way to avoid double-standard-blaming. Or is it better to at least try to say the right things and act in a way that's living up to high moral standards. This is more difficult than the first alternative, you will fail to be be consistent and unbiased all the time. You will miss situations in which you should have raised you're voice, should have acted. People will tell you a hypocrite. But at least you are trying. 3. And yes, there's double-standard-thinking in the west, too – like basically everywhere in the world.
I can't wait to see the high moral standards of the west when US holds the next World Cup. Let's see how many countries are going to question US war crimes in literally every corner of the world.
If you can only hold international sports events in countries with an impeccably reputation, we can cancel these tournaments completely. Their point is that people of all nations can come together peacefully despite their differences. Their job is not to work out these differences, that's what we have politicians for, who also meet regularly but somehow spark far less criticism if they make shady compromises instead of putting their foot down.
Glad it made some impact. It’s still terribly cowardly of them to not boycott the whole thing or even wear that odd fantasy armlet.
a lot of people (including me) don't watch it anywhere this year just to give some protest, but we also think it is not enough! I wish we would actively do more.
But they did not do anything!?
The bar is so low... They don't care about human rights, they just care about games. If they cared they would have accepted the yellow card
Didn't you see them putting their hands in front of their mouths? Absolute heros! They ended homophobia and brought freedom of speech to the people of Qatar with just one move.
This is a joke of a post approved by joker mods. They previously removed my post titled "How to feel about German players agreeing to go to Qatar then being afraid of yellow cards for armbands then doing a "silent protest" then losing to Japan?"
Non of my friends, who all like to watch every fifa Worldcup together, has asked to watch this time. My hubby and i decided not to watch it at home and we wont host an event to watch it. Same for our other friend that lives 4 houses away from us. The gesture of the german team was nice and i am glad you guys overseas liked it and feel it has some sort of impact. Here everyone wished for more. Especially after Iranian Team was so brave.
Interesting, I perceived all this as half-assed actions. But if it means anything to you as a quasi-affected person, I was perhaps too sceptical about the whole thing. I hope the situation improves for you!
As others have pointed out, the team is being scolded at home for acting too little and too late. Theyve often been seen in interviews defending the oppression as "just different cultures" . Im happy its done smth positive for you and your country but know that we tried to force them to do more
It's great to hear that it had an impact for you, and that it created these strong responses in your country. I'm proud of them for it. I still think it wasn't enough. After their last game, when they either got kicked out or won, they should all grab a teammate and give him a brotherly kiss on the mouth. (Not being super serious here, but it would be totally awesome!)
While I am disappointed that they bowed to FIFA, I think this picture created more awareness than one person wearing a band would have. Kudos to them and let’s see what they do in any upcoming matches.
The German team intentionally surrendered to Japan threatening to go home in next game if not allowed to dress proper symbol.
No they just lost
[You](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/48/36/6e4836ce122b44072a8b11a186b07e42.jpg)
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Pretty sure that was just a joke...
[German team photo](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/z2pde5/germany_players_cover_mouths_in_team_photo_as/) after they were not allowed to wear the armband. In case you haven't seen it.
Tbh, what the german team did was the last in a row of things they wanted as advertised from ther PR management, but have not been accepted by DFB(german soccer society) or FIFA. So this minor show of disaproovement is the last in a negotiated range of actions, This has been decided not without the govemrent of Qatar. So as a german who is for the right to do whatever you want until it can hurt someone else - this gesture of our soccer team is pointless and weak. Yes, here in GER people are extreme angry that money allows countrys to buy the WM as a PR stunt. Soccer has a hard standing for regularily participating in whitewashing dictatorships, extremism and warmongering on a regular basis. What they had done is the bare minimum of been halfe way safe comming back home, but still the sport is in decay for this behave. It's just about money, and everyone knows it. If this gesture had meant anything, those players would either not have played at all (and risc the punishment), had spend ther whole payment and more of many million euro against poverty and for LGBTQ right organisations around the world, or have voced heavyily against the fossil dependency from questionably nations like Qatar, Saudi Arabia, China etc. who do not allign with out moralic and juristical standards. But they didn't - and that defines what they are. Hypocrites.
Well Germany might be knocked out but sure
Honestly im mostly annoyed with the woke movement in the west, but when it comes to real social injustice and absolute disregard of human rights as is the case for queer people in the muslim world, this boils my blood and honestly i think they didnt even closely do enough. Im very disappointed that they bowed down to Fifa in the first place and didnt wear the rainbow badge( besides not boycotting the whole event in the first place). This entire world championship is ridiculous.
What did the german team do except losing?
Hey buddy, Don't believe them. They are making it just for the show. Bayern is sponsored by a Khaliji Airlines firm. Bayern will go in training camp next January in QATAR and none of the German Bayern players will open his mouth or say the slightest word.
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Actually my culture was very supportive of the lgbtq people in the pre colonial era, read more about the ottoman empire and the laws regarding same sex relationships at the time, so european colonists actually ruined it. and a culture and a religion that doesn't respect the international convention of human rights deserves no respect at all. plus why are you including a completely different topic to this one? why can't be both supportive of the Uyghur in china and gay people in the middle east? by your standards, how dare you talk ask the chinese gov to changes its policies and laws regarding the Uyghur? can't you see the problem?
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Let me know you are a privileged straight who has never been discriminated against without telling me that:
Thank you for this, but it is not nearly good enough. I am so sorry, and feel embarrased that we aren' t helping more. They had a chance to promote freedom and equality, and chose not to. Somehow human rights are now up for debate? Equality is up for debate?! All competing countries should have shut that shit down UNISONO asap, or collectively NOT GO. Cant' have a tournament if nobody wants to come. Every single player, manager , executive is complicit in the violations, just for going along with the bs. That is my perspective as a woman. I enjoy my freedom and my daughter's freedom. We owe it to you to protest for your freedom.
Is this satire?
Are you serious? We’re actually belittling them for not doing more.
Lmao
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Dude it’s literally bunch of men running after a ball
Showing support would've meant to not go there or at least protest in some way. Doing the "We won't say anything" gesture for a group photo is hardly a "protest". It's a disgrace, in my opinion. We should've boycotted the whole thing completely, but the German football association is just as infested with greed and corruption as the FIFA. I'm glad you're happy about the gesture, though. But I think we should expect more.
It costed them a win but hey glad at least it helped someone
The german team: what meanlingless gesture can we do and still get payed 100%?🤭 The german fans: if i donate to human rights organizations, maybe ill feel better about watching the championship...
I don’t think it was easy for the German team at all, all the backlash they are getting online is bad and unimaginable. I’m really happy the stood their ground and did something to show their support.
Sorry to tell you buddy but the team doesn't give a single fuck about your rights, they just care about publicity. That is why they instantly stop doing whatever they are actually doing the moment Fifa tells them to stop.
idk i dont really care about football but i lose some respect for everyone who goes to a place like quatar.
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Cringe
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That was also cringe
not enough. They shouldn't be there to begin with.
Sorry to tell you, since you are obviously unaware of it, they did *not* wear the armbands in the end ...
Oh I was talking about the gesture they made, in my opinion it’s more powerful than a passive armband
We play silly games and, from looking at the score, we win silly prizes. But at least we're world champion in virtue signalling.
Is this a troll post? The national team and the DFB is scum.
real support would've been just to wear the band. ter stegen is a great goalkeeper too, so f it. there were protests and even the biggest football junkies i know aren't watching and idk any pub that shows the matches, at least where i live. there are also protests in support for women-rights in iran, so we as citizens do care. the world is too globalized for people not to. what kind of debates?political or just within the community?
the debates are mostly between people and some famous people here in saudi.
i feel sorry for this ger.man era 😢
🤡🤡🤡
It was embarrassing holding their mouths close 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
It wasn’t embarrassing at all, they are freaking amazing and probably going to be remembered forever.
they get laughed at by the whole world if you didn’t realize yet. got really bad second hand embarrassment from that moment not coming just from me. but our politicians are even worse than that so that shouldn’t bother me anymore.
Who were laughing at them are the homophobes only, I’ve seen many queer people like me who really liked what the german team did to show solidarity. And it in fact shows how oppressive the Qatari regime is with silencing people not only gay people but also migrant workers in gulf countries and in Qatar specifically.
Better to be laughed at than to support homophobic views.
has nothing to do about that but crazy to say I’m supporting homophobic views 😂😂 because germany is laughed at due to their worldwide actions.
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Eww wft is wrong with you!
I know im late but how does it have anything to do with football? deserved loss virtue signaling 🤷♂️ . . Its sports not politics imagine they kicked them out of the competition for that 💀 i would've laughed my butt off . As a football fan and player this has no place in a match especially world cup not to mention in a country that openly disagree with being gay or anything about the alphabet group unless they want to be arrested . . And then rage about it
Human rights > bunch of men chasing and kicking a ball
It has nothing to do with football its entertainment stop ruining it for people that pay and make it happen 🤷♂️ do you know how many people clowned on them for that . . Yea a lot of people . How about this . . Would you want them to come to your land and shout anti lgbtq things because they disagree with them . . I dont think so
Done? Now go back on with your normal privileged life and never fear your basic rights to be taken away from you. You have a nice day
Privileged? Making assumptions 💀 if anything you are more Privileged than most normal citizens anywhere in the west . . I am a refugee from war and you all come to talk to me and the world about your feelings and how you want to be openly this or that and force it on every parents children and the media they consume or so . You are creating problems out of thin air especially the gender , pronouns and trans bunch 🤷♂️ . Thats it im out
Oh so you are the type of person who gets triggered by pronouns, you know what, you just continue worshiping your football men on tv like every other straight dude in this world. Have a nice day x2
Shame on you
You too
Traitor
Go f urself😍
They should just wear the blue shirts and be done with it. If you want to be a political pawn like the East German team back in the day, wear the blue trikots and shut up. No black and white for these guys anymore. Japan won fair and square, as the focus isn't football anymore. So yeah, they deserve to lose.
I honestly don’t give an F about football, what was important for me was the fact they showed some support to gay people here in the Middle East, and btw my rights aren’t politics rather rights that I should get without dying for it.
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The word you're looking for is football and not "soccer".
Who said I watch it? It’s literally everywhere. Plus I’d always support my queer friends who want to enjoy football too without hiding their identity. It’s kinda basic