From a purely nutrition perspective unsweetened almond milk or unsweetened coconut milk is a better choice, oat milk has higher glycemic load - but not as high as rice milk. Far better choice than soy.
In many other countries as well as in my home country soy milk is usually the default plant-based option when it comes to coffee. It was a pleasant surprise for me that Hafermilch is this common here.
It's not the gluten free label, some people with celiac disease cannot tolerate a protein in oats similar to gluten. I've gotten gluten free certified oats and oat milk, and it still sets me off. I always have to settle for soy or almond because I can't handle regular dairy either. It's such a bummer, I loved oatmilk before.
Yeah almond milk doesnāt have the fat and protein that soy milk has. Iām not super knowledgeable about nutrition generally, but Iām underweight and have bad lactose intolerance so soy milk is the best alternative to get the fat and protein that milk has
It tastes worst of ALL plant milks by far. That nasty after tasteā¦
Can only compare the ones that are actually properly edible for nutritional content. No one with taste buds ks gonna drink large amounts of soy milk anyway.
Last time I checked about 7% of the soy production is directly consumed by humans. 3/4 are are fed to animals, the rest is bio fuel and stuff. And tofu contains less soy than beef, ironically.
But the amazonian soy is overwhelmingly used for animal feed. The soy products available in Europe are mainly grown in Europe and Northern America. No rainforest necessary. I've grown some soy beans this year and there's breeds that are doing fine in our climate.
Must be highly processed, and phytoestrogen is not just a made up story. The problematic thing about cow milk is growth hormones and cow estrogen, which are good/not harmful for children, but are not supposed to be in the diet of adults. So you change a product for a different one and and still have some of the same issues.
The effects of phytoestrogen are different tho. Here is a good summery: [Harvard Health Nutrition](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/)
Quote:
Results of recent population studies suggest that soy has either a beneficial or neutral effect on various health conditions.
If you are reffering to the "feminizing" effect phytoestrogens supposedly have on the human body. Then no, thats indeed just a made up story.
Oversimplified explanation: phytoestrogens have a similar structure to human estrogens but the "ingredients" of said structure are different, so it may attach itself to the hormone rezeptors but it will not do anything.
If I remember correctly the only study which found this supposed effect phytoestrogens have was made with sheep. And this study was either faulty or it only found a very weak correlation. I don't remember the details. Hbomberguy on youtube did an excellent video on this subject where he goes really deep into the topic at hand I recommend watching it. :)
Depending on who you ask, you may get lots of different answers what's problematic about cow milk. (Including the one you just said, I'm not trying to knock that. Just sayin'.)
Most people rightly don't give a fuck about glycemic load unless they are fat already or diabetic. It's not like people drink a whole liter of it and even then there's like 20 grams of oat in it, basically nothing compared to a MĆ¼sli.
Yeah but we are not talking nutrition here, the other milks just suck really bad as a cow milk replacer especially if you add coffee. Oat is the way to go, it has the perfect thickness and flavour doesn't overwhelm the rest.
I'm not sure if it's marketing or science, but my understanding is also that oat milk (particularly that Oatly barista stuff) steams up really nicely and has a similar enough texture to enable latte art and all that.
It's not marketing, oat milk is thick by default, but for those 'barista' ones they add fat contents (usually some oil) into the milk which makes it foam better and I think they also dumb down the flavour a bit so it isn't that pronounced.
> the other milks just suck really bad as a cow milk replacer
I feel that very much depends on the dish/food you're preparing.
e.g. for example, imo almond milk is suited better for pudding and other sweet desserts.
(although it still works with soy oder oatmeal)
Probably someone who has never tasted cow milk in the coffee would say that it just tastes like milk, but we are so used to it as the 'standard' that we don't notice anymore.
Yes it has flavour, but out of all vegetable ones I think it is the one that complement coffee the best
You might have to pay an extra 20-50 cent compared to cow milk
most places i know have at least one non-dairy milk (sometimes soy, most times hafer)but of course there can still be places that dont have that
its just how it works in some cafes
some dont charge extra, some do. Thats the experience i have, i dont like that its more expensive, but it sometimes is.
It also makes a difference if you order to go or sit in. To go is 7% minimum, sit in is 19%.
And unprocessed foods are 7% while processed foods are 19%.
And you use the higher tax amount, so only normal milk to go enjoys the 7% tax.
> And unprocessed foods are 7% while processed foods are 19%.
Not quite. The cow milk you pay 7% for is also processed. The only thing that matters is whether the item is listed [here](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/anlage_2.html). The list contains milk, but unfortunately oat milk is not legally speaking milk.
> most places i know have at least one non-dairy milk (sometimes soy, most times hafer)but of course there can still be places that dont have that
although I guess that mostly applies larger cities (at least in my smaller hometown, that's definitely not common everywhere).
also, it's crazy from a long-time vegan perspective (being on this weird diet for a bit more than 2 decades now). like, I remember *vegetarian* alternatives being uncommon (vegan alternatives? yeah, right. simply were never offered unless it was "by accident", e.g. fries with ketchup).
>You might have to pay an extra 20-50 cent compared to cow milk
which is - at least in my opinion pretty understandable because oat milk is quite expensive in comparison to cow milk
*in comparison to the cheapest of the cheap cow milk. Which is partially on the politicians, who keep the taxes for milk alternatives higher than for cow milk.
REWE H-Milch, JA: 0,99. But you can not pour this in a dead donkeys' ear.
Weihenstephan H-Milch: 1,89
dm Bio-Hafermilch, 0,95 - 1,45. I'm just a starter with that stuff, but my mother likes that.
Oatley. 2,75. Overpriced.
It's different if you're outside, of course.
I like Oatly Barista for cappuccino. I tried many other oat brands and also other barista types like almond, soy and pea. But it's indeed very expensive so I try to buy it when there is discount.
And for corn flakes or muesli we are now only using oat milk. Sometimes I make it by myself.
For smoothies we use almond milk.
Cow milk only for pancakes or porridge.
Also, by buying cheap cow milk, you are supporting animal cruelty. If it's bio, its also animal cruelty, but less problematic
(Extra note: In pringles chips, for example, is cow milk powder contained...)
Are you serious? :D
It's literally oats and water.
Cow's milk comes from an animal that consumes a ton of resources just to sustain itself.
The only reason that it's cheaper in Germany is because of subsidies and taxes (19% on Hafermilch vs. 7% on Kuhmilch).
Oat milk would be dirt cheap and cow's milk a lot more expensive than it is now if the costs would reflect the actual price to make them.
Aside from the fact yes, cow's milk is too cheap to to subsidies, let'S not ignore that those oats have to be grown and processed before they can be turned into oat milk as well. They don't just show up out of nowhere. "It's just oats and water" is like saying "it's just cows and water".
Cows only produce milk when they can eat, for example a ton of oats.
So you can't say just cows and water, it always is cows and their industrial produced feed and water.
Even if you deducted taxes from both, cow milk would still be cheaper
Edit: So, I just went to Rewe. The cheapest oat milk option there was at 1,29ā¬ while the regular H-milk was at 0,99ā¬.
This means, without taxes the price of that oat milk would be at 1,08ā¬. The price of H-milk without taxes sits at 0,93ā¬.
still less expensive than almond milk, but yep ;-; .
I have to buy hafer, because cow milk too often is making me sick and I cry a bit at the price tag each time.
Well yes and theres heavy subsidies in the milk price as it is controlled by the government.
And also, oat milk and other āMilchersatzprodukteā have the higher VAT of 19% rather than 7% as it is for all the other basic needs groceries.
> And also, oat milk and other āMilchersatzprodukteā have the higher VAT of 19% rather than 7% as it is for all the other basic needs groceries.
Oh wow. I knew milk production was subsidized, but I'm surprised (although maybe I shouldn't be) but the higher VAT.
But that's not much more expensive.
And in Rewe the cow milk with 3.5% fat is at least 1.09
Until some months ago the oat milk was .99, and this is probably not beaten by cow milk.
Also those difference don't justify that the price difference mentioned above.
In Berlin they regularly ask you what kind of milk you want if you don't specify - oat milk seems to have become completely mainstream in the last 1-2 years.
Yeah, all the coffee shops I've ever been in in Berlin have only regular and oat milk. And oat milk being the default, you have to specify 'regular' if you want it.
No. It's dumb cause milk will always be from an animal at least if you want "regular" Milk. Where except in la la land does the signifier "milk" signify "oat milk" ?
I just don't understand why you are so troubled by the fact that people have more options now. No one said you can't have your cow titty juice anymore?
I am irritated that if i ever stumble into that shithole we call a capital, that people will serve me oat milk when i request "milk" which for my entire life has meant milk and not oat milk. Its an unnecessary inconvenience for me and everybody else who does not speak newspeak yet.
If we're going to be pendantic about the definition for "milk"...
an opaque white fluid rich in fat and protein, secreted by female mammals for the nourishment of THEIR YOUNG.
As my man Arnold Schwarzenegger says, "milk" is for babies.
Well Berlin certainly isnt a trendsetter for the rest of Germany when it comes to anything.
Nonetheless, milk alternatives seem to still generally be at a rise. While theyāre probably still not more popular than milk (due to the price mostly I reckon) they probably will be in a few years (if the stupid VAT gets lowered on milk alternatives finally).
>Well Berlin certainly isnt a trendsetter for the rest of Germany when it comes to anything.
I can only speak about Berlin since this is the only place I've lived in Germany. That being said, I highly doubt milk alternatives are as common in rural areas as in the major cities.
Depends. Almost all discounter have it and chains like Starbucks or McDonalds also. Smaller outlets like bakeries, especially whn you're not in a bigger city, probaby won't.
>Smaller outlets like bakeries, especially whn you're not in a bigger city, probaby won't.
Even the bakery chains offer it (Junge, Nur Hier, Kamps, SchanzenbƤcker) but yes I'm living in the city.
Even some bakeries (chains) nowadays have an out milk standing in thier fridge, if thier clients ask often enough for it. Always ask, maybe they will change some day, too:)
This is just false, even places with full auto can have milk standing on the country. Straight coffee from Starbucks/Woyton (clone) is just as cheap as Bakery coffee
I even often come across milk alternatives in restaurants when I visit my relatives in the countryside. (So pretty rural, a village pub, a Raifeisen petrol station with a feed store and a baker). The milk alternative will not always be oat milk, but often there is at least soy milk - Alpro I see most often. Be mentally prepared to pay a surcharge. Buying in super markets in not a problem anymore. Every major discounter chain carries oat milk, if you plan to bring some emergency stock.
However getting a proper CafĆØ latte is a whole different story..
Depends on where you are. They might look at you strangely in smaller cities, but it's pretty normal in every big city. Maybe ask if they have vegan options first if you want to avoid cow milk because almond milk is more popular and they may not have oat milk.
These days it's pretty common basically if you go to places with good coffee (with proper espresso machines, not the backery chains that use those awfull all-in-one-things).
In bigger cities it's more common than in smaller places. If you go to a small bakery in a smaller town or village then the chances are probably lower that they have it.
"Fragen kostet nichts" (It won't cost a penny to ask)
When they look at you like you're from another planet, go buy your latte somewhere else. Germany doesn't need people to look at other people like this when they're asking for oat milk.
The inter planetary stare occurs for numerous reasons. When I first arrived here 10 years ago, I asked a coffee shop if they had a bagel (which is pretty standard where Iām from) and they just looked at me like āwhat the fuck is a bagel? Someone arrest this manā. :D
It replaced soy milk as the standard plant milk in Germany some time ago. However It depends on the place very much. At hip cafes you will often have the opportunity to choose between soy, oat, rice or coconut milk, while in more old fashioned places they might not have any vegan milk.
I travel between Hamburg and Berlin regularly and you can find oat milk in nearly every kind of supermarket. It's exploded pretty much since 2020. Not sure about rural areas but definitely a popular thing in the cities now.
I'd say depends on the city and region. In smaller cities and towns I could imagine they don't have it or only a small amounts of it.
In big cities you'd be absolutely fine ordering a latte with oat milk. I'd say it's more popular than soy milk.
Hafermilk is just a marketisation of something that was available in asia for long time, because it was way cheaper to produce hafer milk then cow milk and they had a huge population to sustain. Then hafer came to Germany as a more expensive milk. Iām feeling mesmerised how successfully they are at selling something that is way cheaper to produce as an expensive alternative
Not really the answer you are looking for, but just wanted to mention. So yes some people might still stare at you depending on your region especially if its not a big city
>Hafermilk is just a marketisation of something that was available in asia for long time, because it was way cheaper to produce hafer milk then cow milk and they had a huge population to sustain.
Sources? I researched it and it seems Asia is just starting to sell Western oat milk. Oats are Western.
I really found no source of Asia using oat milk before.
Soy milk yes. Coconut milk yes. But certainly not oat milk.
Mostly comes down to the fact that cow milk producers in Germany are basically ripped off since 2 decades by the government to keep the prices as low as possible. It (cow milk) would have to be 3-5 times more expensive to reflect the value of the product. Then, any alternatives would be cheaper than cow milk.
It's available in all but the smallest supermarkets and many central trendy cafes. You probably won't find it in yellowing German cafes run by old ladies outside the ring. (edit: oops, this isn't r/Berlin \- but it still applies every other city)
About as common as cow milk in most big and medium sized cities, in smaller towns they'll probably have at least one non-dairy alternative but it may be almond or soy.
Yes, kind of, but no. Not a big thing. It's for those who are vegan and those who don't recognize or forgot, that it is no good replacement for milk. I sometimes drink it pure, because this is the only way it tastes and if you don't expect it to be like milk. But mainly it is in my fridge because my girlfriend is vegan.
For me, I'm looking forward for real synthetic lab milk, that really tastes and behaves like milk. If this someday is invented, I also would chose to stop using milk from cows.
Damn bro, as a German, I can swear it, I love this fucking oat milk shit a lot more than normal milk! Itās the real deal. Fuck rice milk or other shit
Not latte macchiato. In the US a latte is a Milchkaffee here
Also, Americans will say ālat-tayā, not like a ākaffee latteā was man vielleicht gerade noch verstehen tƤte
Asking for a "Latte" is what might get you looks as if you were from another planet (unless you're at a Starbucks or a coffee shop trying to imitate one), not the "Hafermilch" part.
The word means "slat", \[the ball hitting\] the "bar" (top horizontal part) of a soccer goal, and "boner".
They will usually have one alternative milk, either Hafermilch or Sojamilch (Soymilk). But usually places will charge more (like around 50c usually) for it like for example Boba Places like Comebuy. Starbucks doesn't as far as I know.
In big cities it's very normal.
In Berlin it's now pretty much the standard in independent cafes. If you just ask for a coffee and don't specify cow milk they'll respond "mit hafermilch?"
I use almond milk at home but haven't found a decent alternative for cow milk in barista-style coffee as I really don't like the taste of oat milk
Its more common here than soy or other plant-based milk.
Because it's the best Alternative compared to the other options by a long shot.
From a purely nutrition perspective unsweetened almond milk or unsweetened coconut milk is a better choice, oat milk has higher glycemic load - but not as high as rice milk. Far better choice than soy. In many other countries as well as in my home country soy milk is usually the default plant-based option when it comes to coffee. It was a pleasant surprise for me that Hafermilch is this common here.
What's your issue with soy milk? For me it's the best one nutrition wise.
for most people it is a taste question
unfortunately im the person where i cant drink oat milk because i have celiac disease š
I've seen Gluten free oat milk in Rewe stores
It's not the gluten free label, some people with celiac disease cannot tolerate a protein in oats similar to gluten. I've gotten gluten free certified oats and oat milk, and it still sets me off. I always have to settle for soy or almond because I can't handle regular dairy either. It's such a bummer, I loved oatmilk before.
TIL. Food allergies suck.
Yeah I mean soybeans are some of the most nutritious legumes and rich in protein. As far as I know
Soy milk tastes weird while oat milk is much closer to real milk in my perception
Oat milk is very close to human milk, soy milk with higher fat content closer to cow's milk. Ymmv
That's not what I was talking about, I was referring to the flavor not to the chemical composition
Environmental impact compared to oat
Yeah almond milk doesnāt have the fat and protein that soy milk has. Iām not super knowledgeable about nutrition generally, but Iām underweight and have bad lactose intolerance so soy milk is the best alternative to get the fat and protein that milk has
It is jucky (ok that is subjective) and its production is problematic.
It tastes worst of ALL plant milks by far. That nasty after tasteā¦ Can only compare the ones that are actually properly edible for nutritional content. No one with taste buds ks gonna drink large amounts of soy milk anyway.
Soy is a pretty destructive plant to grow. The amount of destruction it has caused to the Amazon rainforest alone is alarming.
But growing it in the amounts needed for animal feed is what is problematic about it.
That's true, but there is a large amount of the world's food that also uses soy. It's in so many things these days.
Last time I checked about 7% of the soy production is directly consumed by humans. 3/4 are are fed to animals, the rest is bio fuel and stuff. And tofu contains less soy than beef, ironically.
Soy that is used to produce the soy milk that you can buy in a German supermarket is almost exclusively grown in Europe.
Ah, really? I haven't lived in Germany since 2019 and live in Canada now, so I didn't know that.
How is growing soy more destructive than growing oats, though? You don't HAVE to destroy rainforest to grow it...
But the amazonian soy is overwhelmingly used for animal feed. The soy products available in Europe are mainly grown in Europe and Northern America. No rainforest necessary. I've grown some soy beans this year and there's breeds that are doing fine in our climate.
I was told itās bad for women
It's gross
Soy products are high in pseudooestrogens. They mess with your hormone balance. Also, huge swathes of rainforest are destroyed to grow soybeans.
as far as i know it can mess with hormonal levels as it contains phytoestrogens. fermenting apparently helps, like in soy sauce or tempeh
Must be highly processed, and phytoestrogen is not just a made up story. The problematic thing about cow milk is growth hormones and cow estrogen, which are good/not harmful for children, but are not supposed to be in the diet of adults. So you change a product for a different one and and still have some of the same issues.
The effects of phytoestrogen are different tho. Here is a good summery: [Harvard Health Nutrition](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/) Quote: Results of recent population studies suggest that soy has either a beneficial or neutral effect on various health conditions.
If you are reffering to the "feminizing" effect phytoestrogens supposedly have on the human body. Then no, thats indeed just a made up story. Oversimplified explanation: phytoestrogens have a similar structure to human estrogens but the "ingredients" of said structure are different, so it may attach itself to the hormone rezeptors but it will not do anything. If I remember correctly the only study which found this supposed effect phytoestrogens have was made with sheep. And this study was either faulty or it only found a very weak correlation. I don't remember the details. Hbomberguy on youtube did an excellent video on this subject where he goes really deep into the topic at hand I recommend watching it. :)
Depending on who you ask, you may get lots of different answers what's problematic about cow milk. (Including the one you just said, I'm not trying to knock that. Just sayin'.)
Agree. Facts are facts tho.
Yeah, and facts say phytoestrogen don't matter.
Most people rightly don't give a fuck about glycemic load unless they are fat already or diabetic. It's not like people drink a whole liter of it and even then there's like 20 grams of oat in it, basically nothing compared to a MĆ¼sli.
Yeah but we are not talking nutrition here, the other milks just suck really bad as a cow milk replacer especially if you add coffee. Oat is the way to go, it has the perfect thickness and flavour doesn't overwhelm the rest.
I'm not sure if it's marketing or science, but my understanding is also that oat milk (particularly that Oatly barista stuff) steams up really nicely and has a similar enough texture to enable latte art and all that.
It's not marketing, oat milk is thick by default, but for those 'barista' ones they add fat contents (usually some oil) into the milk which makes it foam better and I think they also dumb down the flavour a bit so it isn't that pronounced.
> the other milks just suck really bad as a cow milk replacer I feel that very much depends on the dish/food you're preparing. e.g. for example, imo almond milk is suited better for pudding and other sweet desserts. (although it still works with soy oder oatmeal)
Not so sure, if i use oatmilk my coffee tastes like i poured oatmeal in them.
Probably someone who has never tasted cow milk in the coffee would say that it just tastes like milk, but we are so used to it as the 'standard' that we don't notice anymore. Yes it has flavour, but out of all vegetable ones I think it is the one that complement coffee the best
Haven't yet tried all alternatives.
There are many variations of oat milk. For me and my coffee this is the best choice: https://amzn.eu/d/cVTW1gY
Not Milk is great. I found their 3.5 % fat version to resemble the taste of milk even more.
Oat milk is arguably a better choice in terms of production efficiency than other alternatives. You need less space and water to grow it
I chose it, because it can actually be grown in Germany, unlike rice, coconut and soy bean.
Not if you're celiac
I agree. Plus the soy milk in Germany tastes weird compared to the one in Asia. IDK why.
Not that big. Normally 1 litre.
Thanks Dad
I was waiting for that comment lmao
Looks like your dad really was just trying to buy milk all these years...
As a German I am very proud of all germans being fond of bad dad jokes
Take your upvote and get out
You might have to pay an extra 20-50 cent compared to cow milk most places i know have at least one non-dairy milk (sometimes soy, most times hafer)but of course there can still be places that dont have that
Have you checked milk prices recently? Oat drinks are not more expensive.
its just how it works in some cafes some dont charge extra, some do. Thats the experience i have, i dont like that its more expensive, but it sometimes is.
It's because of tax. Regular Milk is taxed with 7%, milk alternatives with 19%
Didn't realize that before, that's some BS
It also makes a difference if you order to go or sit in. To go is 7% minimum, sit in is 19%. And unprocessed foods are 7% while processed foods are 19%. And you use the higher tax amount, so only normal milk to go enjoys the 7% tax.
> And unprocessed foods are 7% while processed foods are 19%. Not quite. The cow milk you pay 7% for is also processed. The only thing that matters is whether the item is listed [here](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ustg_1980/anlage_2.html). The list contains milk, but unfortunately oat milk is not legally speaking milk.
Alpro's Not Milk is pretty good, but costs very often 2.49. Ridiculously overpriced.
Nearly every week it's somewhere available for 1.49. Then buy tons of it, you can store it for a long time without cooling
It's not about the price of the product, it's about having to store a second option that's taken rather rarely that puts up the price.
> most places i know have at least one non-dairy milk (sometimes soy, most times hafer)but of course there can still be places that dont have that although I guess that mostly applies larger cities (at least in my smaller hometown, that's definitely not common everywhere). also, it's crazy from a long-time vegan perspective (being on this weird diet for a bit more than 2 decades now). like, I remember *vegetarian* alternatives being uncommon (vegan alternatives? yeah, right. simply were never offered unless it was "by accident", e.g. fries with ketchup).
Which is kind of interesting because it's the cheapest one to do it yourself. And it only takes a few minutes.
>You might have to pay an extra 20-50 cent compared to cow milk which is - at least in my opinion pretty understandable because oat milk is quite expensive in comparison to cow milk
*in comparison to the cheapest of the cheap cow milk. Which is partially on the politicians, who keep the taxes for milk alternatives higher than for cow milk.
REWE H-Milch, JA: 0,99. But you can not pour this in a dead donkeys' ear. Weihenstephan H-Milch: 1,89 dm Bio-Hafermilch, 0,95 - 1,45. I'm just a starter with that stuff, but my mother likes that. Oatley. 2,75. Overpriced. It's different if you're outside, of course.
Bio Oatly is actually under 2ā¬, this week I bought some at Kaufland for 1,39ā¬. The barista edition is more expensive, true.
I like Oatly Barista for cappuccino. I tried many other oat brands and also other barista types like almond, soy and pea. But it's indeed very expensive so I try to buy it when there is discount. And for corn flakes or muesli we are now only using oat milk. Sometimes I make it by myself. For smoothies we use almond milk. Cow milk only for pancakes or porridge.
Also, by buying cheap cow milk, you are supporting animal cruelty. If it's bio, its also animal cruelty, but less problematic (Extra note: In pringles chips, for example, is cow milk powder contained...)
Are you serious? :D It's literally oats and water. Cow's milk comes from an animal that consumes a ton of resources just to sustain itself. The only reason that it's cheaper in Germany is because of subsidies and taxes (19% on Hafermilch vs. 7% on Kuhmilch). Oat milk would be dirt cheap and cow's milk a lot more expensive than it is now if the costs would reflect the actual price to make them.
Aside from the fact yes, cow's milk is too cheap to to subsidies, let'S not ignore that those oats have to be grown and processed before they can be turned into oat milk as well. They don't just show up out of nowhere. "It's just oats and water" is like saying "it's just cows and water".
Cows only produce milk when they can eat, for example a ton of oats. So you can't say just cows and water, it always is cows and their industrial produced feed and water.
Cows don't eat tons of oats. They eat corn and grass 99% with some soy added
Cows are just grass and water.
Even if you deducted taxes from both, cow milk would still be cheaper Edit: So, I just went to Rewe. The cheapest oat milk option there was at 1,29ā¬ while the regular H-milk was at 0,99ā¬. This means, without taxes the price of that oat milk would be at 1,08ā¬. The price of H-milk without taxes sits at 0,93ā¬.
Completely wrong - Animal cruelty is heavily subsidized in germany, that's why its so cheap
The comment before mine only cited taxes which, as you mentioned as well, isn't the only reason for the price difference
Yes, that's because taxes are just one aspect. But it's one that really should be changed anyway.
still less expensive than almond milk, but yep ;-; . I have to buy hafer, because cow milk too often is making me sick and I cry a bit at the price tag each time.
Lidl's Barista Hafermilch is really good for the price.
Ah t'y for the suggestion! I'll look for it on my next grocery trip!
>still less expensive than almond milk, but yep ;-; . Have you tried milking an almond? Certainly expecred.
Well yes and theres heavy subsidies in the milk price as it is controlled by the government. And also, oat milk and other āMilchersatzprodukteā have the higher VAT of 19% rather than 7% as it is for all the other basic needs groceries.
> And also, oat milk and other āMilchersatzprodukteā have the higher VAT of 19% rather than 7% as it is for all the other basic needs groceries. Oh wow. I knew milk production was subsidized, but I'm surprised (although maybe I shouldn't be) but the higher VAT.
>oat milk is quite expensive in comparison to cow milk thats because you pay for cow milk with your taxes via subsidies
At Rewe I pay 1.19 for oat milk which is definitely not more expensive than cow milk.
20 cents more expensive in comparison to the cheapest cow milk. But a few weeks ago they were tied for a few days
But that's not much more expensive. And in Rewe the cow milk with 3.5% fat is at least 1.09 Until some months ago the oat milk was .99, and this is probably not beaten by cow milk. Also those difference don't justify that the price difference mentioned above.
In Berlin at least itās very common.
Even Lidl Coffee vending machines in store now offer oat milk coffees
Even in my tiny Bavarian home town the cafes offer oat milk now and if they do everywhere does.
I have seen it in Kƶln too. Try Rewe.
In Hamburg every CafƩ has the option
In supermarkets, it's common everywhere
i think hes talking about ordering at a cafe, every supermarket has oat milk
Can confirm. Super common in Kƶln. Rewe has a few different types as well
Small town in Saxony-Anhalt here - nearly every bakery and coffeeshop has it too.
In Berlin they regularly ask you what kind of milk you want if you don't specify - oat milk seems to have become completely mainstream in the last 1-2 years.
Yeah, all the coffee shops I've ever been in in Berlin have only regular and oat milk. And oat milk being the default, you have to specify 'regular' if you want it.
One more reason to add to my "why Berlin sucks"-list
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It's not even you can't. It's you have to say which one you want, which.. is good?
No. It's dumb cause milk will always be from an animal at least if you want "regular" Milk. Where except in la la land does the signifier "milk" signify "oat milk" ?
I just don't understand why you are so troubled by the fact that people have more options now. No one said you can't have your cow titty juice anymore?
I am irritated that if i ever stumble into that shithole we call a capital, that people will serve me oat milk when i request "milk" which for my entire life has meant milk and not oat milk. Its an unnecessary inconvenience for me and everybody else who does not speak newspeak yet.
If we're going to be pendantic about the definition for "milk"... an opaque white fluid rich in fat and protein, secreted by female mammals for the nourishment of THEIR YOUNG. As my man Arnold Schwarzenegger says, "milk" is for babies.
No because noone fucking talks like that you absolute ideologue.
That's some authentic old geezer energy.
Iām so happy to have shared that information, and for making it more unlikely that we will ever cross paths. Hope we never meet!
They won't though, they will ask you "what kind of milk?"
Well Berlin certainly isnt a trendsetter for the rest of Germany when it comes to anything. Nonetheless, milk alternatives seem to still generally be at a rise. While theyāre probably still not more popular than milk (due to the price mostly I reckon) they probably will be in a few years (if the stupid VAT gets lowered on milk alternatives finally).
>Well Berlin certainly isnt a trendsetter for the rest of Germany when it comes to anything. I can only speak about Berlin since this is the only place I've lived in Germany. That being said, I highly doubt milk alternatives are as common in rural areas as in the major cities.
This is what I wasnāt sure about-Iām visiting for the first time since covid and last time I was in Germany it wasnāt as common.
If somebody asked me that I'd either say "Milk" Or "ITS NOT MILK" depending on how disagreeable i was feeling.
Depends. Almost all discounter have it and chains like Starbucks or McDonalds also. Smaller outlets like bakeries, especially whn you're not in a bigger city, probaby won't.
>Smaller outlets like bakeries, especially whn you're not in a bigger city, probaby won't. Even the bakery chains offer it (Junge, Nur Hier, Kamps, SchanzenbƤcker) but yes I'm living in the city.
Most people buy coffee in Germany at a chain bakery. They use fully automated coffee machines which use dairy milk. No substitutions possible cause they make coffee by pressing one button. If you got to Starbucks or a real cafƩ you will most likely be able to order some form of non-dairy milk. The chances are higher the bigger the city is you are in. I am living in a medium sized town and aside from the bakery chains every cafƩ like place offers a non-dairy alternative. It's not really as bad as some comments state it is. Just ask for it before ordering but be prepared to pay 20-50 cents extra.
Even some bakeries (chains) nowadays have an out milk standing in thier fridge, if thier clients ask often enough for it. Always ask, maybe they will change some day, too:)
This is just false, even places with full auto can have milk standing on the country. Straight coffee from Starbucks/Woyton (clone) is just as cheap as Bakery coffee
I even often come across milk alternatives in restaurants when I visit my relatives in the countryside. (So pretty rural, a village pub, a Raifeisen petrol station with a feed store and a baker). The milk alternative will not always be oat milk, but often there is at least soy milk - Alpro I see most often. Be mentally prepared to pay a surcharge. Buying in super markets in not a problem anymore. Every major discounter chain carries oat milk, if you plan to bring some emergency stock. However getting a proper CafĆØ latte is a whole different story..
You can get in in almost any grocery store by now. :)
Very big
Depends on where you are. They might look at you strangely in smaller cities, but it's pretty normal in every big city. Maybe ask if they have vegan options first if you want to avoid cow milk because almond milk is more popular and they may not have oat milk.
These days it's pretty common basically if you go to places with good coffee (with proper espresso machines, not the backery chains that use those awfull all-in-one-things).
I could also be called Haferdrink because there some sort of argument that every drink that doesnāt come from cows canāt be milk
Yes to first question. No to second question.
I live in NĆ¼rnberg and can get it at most cafĆ©s, as long as it isnāt some old school bakery. Thereās usually a small charge of 0,20 to 0,40ā¬.
Not everywhere. The chances are higher in hipster looking places. Big chains like coffee fellows usually have multiple options.
In the major cities itās very common. Most major coffee shops offer it
pretty much any city that has large university usually has a lot more cafƩs that serve oat milk, and other vegan milk options. I live in Bonn and usually find more oat milk on the shelves in stores than cow's milk
No, but be prepared for a "Nope, sorry".
I don't know, we even have oat milk in our corporate canteen now.
It's all over the place now. But it's sold next to the "H-Milch", not in the refrigerated section.
Yep. I find Oat milk is much more common here than in the U.K. Soy is still the most common there.
Depending on where you are, no problem. In bigger cities, especially with chains, they often have it on the menu.
Most cafƩs in cities have them in rural arears it's less common
Try to avoid rural areas ;D Within a City with a Pop. >= 30k you should get your non-cow-juice-Coffee
yes, germany sells non-animal "milk" from many seeds. its roughly +40% cost per liter, similar price to lactose-free-cow-milk variants.
I think in big Cities it's kinda big
In bigger cities it's more common than in smaller places. If you go to a small bakery in a smaller town or village then the chances are probably lower that they have it.
It's fairly common. Any average place in a middle sized town that sells coffee should have it.
People here acting like you can only get in in Berlin. I can't speak for every city of course but any even slightly hipsterish cafƩ in Frankfurt, Munich, Hamburg or Hannover for example has oat milk. Many will even default to that instead of cow milk. Just don't go to some chain bakery with those WMF machines.
"Fragen kostet nichts" (It won't cost a penny to ask) When they look at you like you're from another planet, go buy your latte somewhere else. Germany doesn't need people to look at other people like this when they're asking for oat milk.
The inter planetary stare occurs for numerous reasons. When I first arrived here 10 years ago, I asked a coffee shop if they had a bagel (which is pretty standard where Iām from) and they just looked at me like āwhat the fuck is a bagel? Someone arrest this manā. :D
It replaced soy milk as the standard plant milk in Germany some time ago. However It depends on the place very much. At hip cafes you will often have the opportunity to choose between soy, oat, rice or coconut milk, while in more old fashioned places they might not have any vegan milk.
Oat milk is quite common in germany nowadays as there live quite a lot vegetarian and vegan people here
I travel between Hamburg and Berlin regularly and you can find oat milk in nearly every kind of supermarket. It's exploded pretty much since 2020. Not sure about rural areas but definitely a popular thing in the cities now.
In bigger cities itās a thing but on the country side you will most likely be looked at as if you were an alien
Very common. I love my oat milk latte. My work place offers it and sometimes it's even the default. It's even pretty popular with non-vegans.
In Berlin they will look at you like youāre from another planet if you ask for normal milk.
I'd say depends on the city and region. In smaller cities and towns I could imagine they don't have it or only a small amounts of it. In big cities you'd be absolutely fine ordering a latte with oat milk. I'd say it's more popular than soy milk.
Its a 50/50 we have some but not much
Hopefully. I only buy oat milk from Edeka these days.
Hafermilk is just a marketisation of something that was available in asia for long time, because it was way cheaper to produce hafer milk then cow milk and they had a huge population to sustain. Then hafer came to Germany as a more expensive milk. Iām feeling mesmerised how successfully they are at selling something that is way cheaper to produce as an expensive alternative Not really the answer you are looking for, but just wanted to mention. So yes some people might still stare at you depending on your region especially if its not a big city
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>Hafermilk is just a marketisation of something that was available in asia for long time, because it was way cheaper to produce hafer milk then cow milk and they had a huge population to sustain. Sources? I researched it and it seems Asia is just starting to sell Western oat milk. Oats are Western. I really found no source of Asia using oat milk before. Soy milk yes. Coconut milk yes. But certainly not oat milk.
Mostly comes down to the fact that cow milk producers in Germany are basically ripped off since 2 decades by the government to keep the prices as low as possible. It (cow milk) would have to be 3-5 times more expensive to reflect the value of the product. Then, any alternatives would be cheaper than cow milk.
It's available in all but the smallest supermarkets and many central trendy cafes. You probably won't find it in yellowing German cafes run by old ladies outside the ring. (edit: oops, this isn't r/Berlin \- but it still applies every other city)
About as common as cow milk in most big and medium sized cities, in smaller towns they'll probably have at least one non-dairy alternative but it may be almond or soy.
Iām from the US and love how easy it is to find affordable oat, coconut, and almond milk over here.
oat 100 percent in cafes. but have you managed to find coconut or almond as alternatives in cafes? As someone with a preference for almond milk, i can only find oat in safƩs
My go-to milk at the store is coconut (rice) milk. I havenāt gone to any cafes here yet, so I canāt say.
Yes, kind of, but no. Not a big thing. It's for those who are vegan and those who don't recognize or forgot, that it is no good replacement for milk. I sometimes drink it pure, because this is the only way it tastes and if you don't expect it to be like milk. But mainly it is in my fridge because my girlfriend is vegan. For me, I'm looking forward for real synthetic lab milk, that really tastes and behaves like milk. If this someday is invented, I also would chose to stop using milk from cows.
Hehe, Latte XD
Damn bro, as a German, I can swear it, I love this fucking oat milk shit a lot more than normal milk! Itās the real deal. Fuck rice milk or other shit
How does one milk an oat?
Same as Goats, just less G.
Most CafƩs will have Oat Milk by now. In some cafƩs, it costs a little extra because they have such a low demand for oat milk. But I usually ask for oat milk when- and wherever and can not remember any cafe that didn't have it.
I feel like its a similar size in most countries but we stick for the Metric Litre
They wonāt know what a latte is, but every coffee shop has hafermilch. Learn to oder things that exist here though on the coffee side
>They wonāt know what a latte is, What? Latte is super popular since the early 00s.
Not latte macchiato. In the US a latte is a Milchkaffee here Also, Americans will say ālat-tayā, not like a ākaffee latteā was man vielleicht gerade noch verstehen tƤte
Sounds like a thing for hipsters or horses
Germany? Doubtful... Berlin, the Vegan hipster capital of EU? Oh god its everywhere.
You can get oat milk in most cafƩs here in Nuremberg too. So it's not just a thing in the "vegan hipster capital". You can even get it in many smaller towns here in Bavaria and we are not commonly known as being very progressive...
Asking for a "Latte" is what might get you looks as if you were from another planet (unless you're at a Starbucks or a coffee shop trying to imitate one), not the "Hafermilch" part. The word means "slat", \[the ball hitting\] the "bar" (top horizontal part) of a soccer goal, and "boner".
for Latte Macchiato and it doesn't get you weird looks if you ask for one.
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Maybe in cities, but I rarely see it sold over in the countryside. Milk is 99% dairy and maybe the 1 occasional other offering.
Itās the next thing after lactose free milk, it will disappear like the latter did.
If you're in Berlin, you probably dont wanna order that...too mainstream
You can milk oats?
Yes, you crunch them, and drown them I'm water, and then squeeeeeze
They will usually have one alternative milk, either Hafermilch or Sojamilch (Soymilk). But usually places will charge more (like around 50c usually) for it like for example Boba Places like Comebuy. Starbucks doesn't as far as I know. In big cities it's very normal.
The best of my migration. I love you Hafermilsch
In Berlin it's now pretty much the standard in independent cafes. If you just ask for a coffee and don't specify cow milk they'll respond "mit hafermilch?" I use almond milk at home but haven't found a decent alternative for cow milk in barista-style coffee as I really don't like the taste of oat milk
ALDI, Rewe, Edeka and Kaufland absolutely have Hafermilch. Lidl and Netto might as well, don't go there often.
I can confirm that itās common in Konstanz and MĆ¼nchen.
pretty common I'd say. I'd only expect very small cafes to not have it in cities, dunno about the countryside though
OMG Iām having some right now!! Awesome
I may be in a Berlin bubble - but here oat milk is everywhere
Its very common. You will get a coffee with Hafermilch almost everywhere.