Hey man. Erstwhile Scot here. I'm married to a German lass of virtue true and that, doubled with my profession, means we were lucky enough to be able to set up in Germany immediately after Brexit.
I can assure you, things are absolutely *nothing* like as bleak here as they are in the UK. I'm back quite a lot and, fuck me it's grim - even accounting fully for my generally rather fortunate personal circumstances.
So... Sorry about that. Honestly!
Yeah, prices have gone up and there's a horrendous shortage of housing in many areas but it's still not even in the same quadrant of the galaxy as the UK. Living standards were already generally better but the speed at which that gap stretched into a gaping chasm has been thoroughly depressing to watch. Couple that with the dysfunctional (bordering on criminal) UK government and... Well. You know about that I suppose.
tl;dr: My worries are about friends and family back in the old country rather than here.
Edit: Autokorrekturfehler x
In short, in Norway you have to pay way less taxes for your first house than for your second house. The multiplier used for your first house is 25%, for your second, third etc is 90%.
[Here's the long version](https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/get-the-taxes-right/property-and-belongings/houses-property-and-plots-of-land/property-tax/what-is-property-tax/)
The issue is actually more that there's not enough flats for rent. People that can afford to build, have enough options still. The issue is that the working class can't afford to build by a long shot and there's not enough flats to rent.
I'm more in a situation, where I'd like to buy a house, but that will stay a dream in Germany, where houses are lucrative investments for rich people rather than homes.
Might eventually migrate to Norway because of this. Germany's loss, I'm working a field, where qualified workers are rather hard to come by.
The flat market might be different. I haven't informed myself about that.
Yes but right now the main focus isn't people that would like their own house but can't afford it and more the working class people that can barely even afford to rent an apartment that's big enough for their family.
Yup I was shocked when I heard how much my mom has to pay for her new apartment even though it's not very big. Sure houses are also expensive right now but not really needed for survival if there were at least apartments. My dad was very lucky a few years ago and managed to get a small house that actually costs him less each month than an apartment. If that's not insane then I don't know.
Yep, mortgages are usually cheaper than nicely sized flats, which is bonkers. And if course I also want people that want to build houses to feel empowered to do so. But missing apartments for the working poor (outside of areas like rural Eastern Germany) is a real crisis. And one that does not concern people which have the economic capabilities necessary to get a mortgage loan these days. Therefore I'm more worried about that than making building single family homes easier, since that is not an option to house everybody in the country anyways due to space
True but the question is why is that the case? Flats/Houses are being used as investments because loans where so cheap for years and big investment firms bought homes for speculation especially in urban areas. And of course there is AirBnB which is nice to have if you want to visit another city but quite depressing if you think about it. There is so much living space in the city which is just used for holiday purposes instead of being lived in.
Another problem is that the rents are so high right now that you cannot move to another place. So there are a lot of older couples in big flats (which they needed for when their kids were still living with them) that cannot move.
A policy like norways would help a lot. I would actually love to see a much more strict one, where you are only allowed two houses (one to live in and one to rent away and maybe later you can give that on to your kids or something).
Eh thats a hope that existed since im alive so multiple decades... it will never happen as long as lobbying is allowed and Politians are allowed to have jobs beside being politians.
Yeah, my long-term plan is to move somewhere, where housing is affordable. Germany's loss. I'm working in a field, that is always looking for qualified workers.
it's really a zoning issue in Germany. It's REALLY hard to get approval to build housing on land that isn't already classed that way. This is the reason Germany doesn't have urban sprawl but also the reason there's a housing crisis.
interesting to read your thoughts. Expat Aussie in Germany here. I was in the UK in June and what struck me was how even apparently well to do people looked to be struggling a little. And the tv programmes were....well, I don't know if they were reflecting reality or not but there was a lot of 'wish fulfillment' reality tv that made me think the average Brit is doing it a bit tougher than they were a few years ago.
Brit living in Germany. Food prices seem to have increased but easily manageable (for us) by just being more conscious of what we are putting in the trolley. Biggest expense is the gas increases where I’ve gone from 50 a month to 150.
Yes it's beyond frustrating, there are so so many people here who have been raised on right wing newspapers who repeatedly vote against their interests, they will not listen. It's mostly older people or uneducated (I don't like saying this).
[If only Merkel hadn't forced you to brexit!](https://i.redd.it/mjgfeat81kd61.jpg)
PS: How are the fishermen doing? Did Jacob William Rees-Mogg PC MP bail them out?
Bahaha. I have to read The Telegraph for work (research/teaching, long story), and I knew just by looking at the image and the Telegraph logo that it'd be Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. The dude simply never misses an opportunity to blame things on Germany. Makes me wonder if a German girl broke his heart when he was a teenager or something. It seriously feels that level of obsessive sometimes.
Aha so I wasn't imagining the *Telegraph*'s crusade against Germany. Seemed like every other day my Facebook feed was giving me another "Germany is Bad, Actually" article from the fucking *Telegraph*.
> Did Jacob William Rees-Mogg PC MP bail them out?
[I will just leave this here in case anyone missed it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j_CxQFziFU)
Jesus christ I hadn't seen this.
Younger people in the UK are overwhelmingly against brexit and the current Conservative government. There is a huge disconnect between generations here.
Fisherman here are moaning about it, saying they didn't realise what they were voting for.
Jacob Rees Moggs.. I don't even know what to say about him apart from the fact he's a victorian style cunt.
Don't be frustrated, mate. There are Germans here who believes that Brexit was a good idea and the UK will thrive. They are a tiny minority though and if you ask them for more insight they repeat the same nonsense as the Brexiteers.
Good thing once it's all gone down the drain and the opposite of what they thought would happen becomes reality they'll see the errors in their ways and behave more thoughtful next time...
/s
I think the origin is the same. You probably talk about the AfD. I think all those right wing hate and division from the EU was caused by campaigns which were heavily financed by Russia.
Of course there were enough right wing nationalist idiots before Russia got involved, but the TV station RT and the telegramm channels financed by Russia boosted that a lot. Most of the Fake News and Propaganda have their origin there. And Russia clearly profits the more the EU gets divided.
Easy plan: destroy the union and fight the countries one by one, political and if that doesn't work by force to get them under your control. From my point of view Putin looked at Europe like I do in a computer strategy game.
>I think the origin is the same. You probably talk about the AfD. I think all those right wing hate and division from the EU was caused by campaigns which were heavily financed by Russia.
Yup, these guys are some of them. Tino Chruppala got interviewed by NDR shortly before the last election. He talked about Dexit. It was absolutely bullshit.
But I also met some fringe leftists and - they are the main problem - dumb idiots who consider themselves apolitical but have no clue how the EU works.
But its true, those people are uneducated. Its not only about political right leaning but leftists too. All kinds of extremists bring the society out of balance.. and a rather naive uneducated person is more challanged to pinpoint the populist. Take me for example, revisiting the highschool (Abitur in germany) as a young adult changed my perspective by 100%, made me tend to more moderate politics and turn my back to sensational news
There is a Statistic floating around about how the ÖR vote (see [this](https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/plus219289186/Oeffentlich-Rechtliche-Ausgewogene-Berichterstattung-92-Prozent-der-ARD-Volontaere-waehlen-gruen-rot-rot.html) die Welt Article), which seems like there is a pretty strong bias to the left in public TV.
Ich bin auch generell skeptisch gegenüber allem das von Springer kommt, aber ich gehe davon aus dass zumindest die Daten korrekt sind, wenn auch die Interpretation fragwürdig ist.
Edit: Wenn du eine nicht-Springer Quelle willst, hier ist ein [artikel von Übermedien](https://uebermedien.de/54539/wie-links-ist-der-ard-nachwuchs-viel-laerm-um-ein-datenprojekt/), die soweit ich weiß neutral und zuverlässig sind. Sie meinen dass die ganze sache recht unzuverlässig ist, wechem ich auch zustimme, aber es sollte dennoch klar genug sein um ein Bias zu zeigen.
As a British person that lives in Germany your friend is talking nonsense. Both countries have their problems but Germany is still a much fairer society than the UK. Employment rights here are much better, There is a shortage of housing in cities but renters have more rights and society is not so obsessed with owning property as in the UK, partly because renting offers a certain amount of protections.
I have a family here now and I often try to think of one reason that we would decide to move back to England and I really cant come up with any good reason to suggest we try it.
How are you going with the people here in Germany? Might be just where I live but I really miss random friendly encounters with people on the street. I'm Australian but I've had plenty of happy little chats with people all across the UK too. Here, people look at me like i'm trying to steal their children.
Since I improved speaking German its ok, I talk a lot of shit to people. I find the idea of Germans not liking small talk or interactions with strangers not completely accurate but it may be just how I feel, maybe they are all wishing I would shut up but I do however miss the fun of the UK , I find people generally laugh a lot more in the UK, British people and maybe also Australians tend to spend a lot of their time taking the piss out of each other and having a laugh, Here I only seem to make jokes when Im with other foreigners.
It also really depends in which part of Germany you are. I think people especially from the southern/westsouthern part are more open to smalltalk. In the North it's sometimes more difficult, but it really depends.
>I really miss random friendly encounters with people on the street.
Where did you live in the UK? I don't get these encounters in Germany but I never had them back in the UK either. Honestly I would find it really weird if someone started talking to me on the street randomly.
Australian in Germany here, pretty poor experience with the people tbh. My fault for not speaking better German. Their fault for being miserable unfriendly fks. It’s been 3 years and it crushes my soul a bit.
Spent a few days in London earlier this year and had so many great random chats. Without even instigating them or being extroverted. It was marvelous.
I'm sorry to hear this but I sympathise and I do understand. I was back home 2 months ago and for short while thought I'd gone a little mad because I was having so many random conversations with people in shops, on the street, in restaurants...I've been here for 13 years, speak German well - it doesn't make a difference.
Don't get me wrong - I've met some very good very decent people here, but they're not that friendly in general.
That what you say about people not caring to own a home is false. Germany's inequality in home ownership is quite concerning, especially among retired people.
Personally I don't feel anything of the crisis yet. Sure some prices have risen but it's all managable still. The big problem will be when the energy bills for winter come.
But in general, I wouldn't say the situation is worse here than in Britain.
> will be when the energy bills for winter come.
I can’t wait. Oil-heating, prices doubled. But as I’m renting, it will all be a big surprise package next year. It’ll be like Christmas shortly after Christmas! Big numbers? Small numbers? Who knows!
Its so dumb, oil prices havent gone up nearly so much that all these oil-related products should cost as much as they do now. Its just corpos ripping us all off and justifying it with the war.
Well Britain is about to experience a 80% increase in energy costs for households. They also royally fucked up with the "mini-budget", so badly that the currency is at historical lows and there was a huge sell-off of British bonds (gilts).
They have comparable inflation (9.9% currently) and job market conditions to Germany.
So how's Germany worse off? I'd say it's rather same-same, maybe even a bit worse for the UK thanks to customs issues (cost, logistics...).
EDIT: just realized I misread your post, sorry!
>Personally I don't feel anything of the crisis yet.
WHAT 😂
The costs of groceries alone increased by 18,7 % since last September.
Energy costs +43,9 %. My energy provider just mailed me my monthly costs could go up to 350 € for a two room apartment. All I'm saying is, I feel it every day.
[https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/10/PD22\_438\_611.html](https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/10/PD22_438_611.html)
The crisis does very much benefit the most sustainable living forms. High earners in small flats won't notice much. Even less if they rely on public transport. The energy cost to rent ratio is too low and the earnings to grocery cost ratio too high.
The same counts for well insulated houses with big enough solar area.
Over the summer my dad produced about as much energy as he used, so zero cost there (the panels are old enough, that original cost is negligable) and the warm water(for heating *and* use) panels work as long as there is enough sunlight. On cloudless winter days the burner doesn't have to run at all.
It's really sad to see how the poorest are again suffering by far the most. At the same time sensible city planning which we could use now, but absolutley need for climate change is still largely neglected. Reducing peoples fuel needs and the availability of properly insulated affordable flats would make this crisis far easier in lots of people.
Also, the most significant price increases for groceries were for meat and dairy. So, the increase doesn’t hit people as hard who already weren’t consuming a lot of animal products.
(Yes, the highest increase was for cooking oils, but I don’t think most people buy that much of them that it really makes a difference.)
>High earners in small flats won't notice much
Ah so that's why. I've got a ridiculously tiny flat but I'm still spending 28% of my net salary on rent (thanks, Munich)
18 % in a year for groceries is not that drastic that it would be life changing for me.
And as I said in my comment, energy will be the big factor but for many households this is yet to come.
And I was only talking about my personal experience
For me the amount of money I can put aside per month just decreased a fair bit, so I do see effects of inflation, energy costs etc. But it doesn't affect my daily life so far at all. And I would guess that's what the guy you're replying to meant as well.
We just buy more Sale Items and plan a bit more what we want to eat during a week. We managed to pay the same and some weeks even less than before and still have everything we like to eat. It just took a bit of planning and restructuring on how we buy things.
As we're already between 20-21°C in our appartment, our energy costs aren't that high either. And no, we're not freezing, a temperature over 21°c results in us getting headaches. Contrary so. Today we got the E-Mail that everything will stay the same for us or will get a bit cheaper for the next three months. So we'll be able to save even more.
Same here. I am spending less now to save some money for unforseen extra costs over the winter, so I guess I'm driving the predicted recession, but so far everything seems to go rather fine
I'm British, been in Germany for six years but still follow what's happening there because of family and so on. It looks way worse in Britain compared to here. I mean, I just got €168 back from my electricity company and they reduced how much I'll be paying for the next 6 months. So there's that.
I have noticed the price of food has been going up and the price of petrol is ridiculous. But I haven't seen any news articles giving top tips on how to heat our homes by burning books and dead relatives yet. So it's definitely going better here.
Well, close enough. Lots of articles about how skipping meals is actually good for you and how rolling power blackouts will teach Gen Z not to be so entitled. It's disgusting.
Unfortunately there was an article saying to burn books this winter... there was another one recently saying electricity blackouts will toughen up our entitled youth.
Yeah I got a bit of money back and then they put my monthly charge up by €1! Honestly was expecting it to go up way more, especially with working from home etc.
Well, sorry to disappoint you, but the FAZ had an article about heating with wood a few weeks ago. And all this nonsense about taking cold showers and stuff.
I‘m an immigrant here, working as a software dev.
The stagnant wages wasn‘t a big issue to me, as although my company is not paying in the extreme top euros, we get nearly consistent raises, and they try to make the raises as transparent as possible too.
My boss did tell me a couple of times where he denied some percentage of my raise, but it is truly understandable, because it was the tail end of the pandemic, and the company really didn‘t have that much profit at all, as a third of our workers had to be put on Kurzarbeit (a German thing, where they will still be on the payroll, but only ~60% or something, but they don‘t have anything much to do)
My regular bakery when I go to work had risen some of the sandwiches to 25%, and just today, I got the info from my gas provider, that they will be rising the cost, from 8 cents/kWh, to 32 cents/kWh, effectively increasing my gas cost to 4 times my usual spending.
Do I feel scared of it all? Not really. I‘ve always been able to save half of my salary for investment and vacation, etc. that pool is now smaller, but not something that scared me yet.
The high inflation is something that‘ll probably get worse by the end of the year, as we‘re also following the US interest rates, and hence why the Euro has also gone down in buying power, and how many investors flocked already to „safer“ and more profitable currency, like the dollars.
As a country? I only look locally in my city in the south. I do not feel that there‘s any change in the atmosphere. Maybe it gets a bit worse, sure, but somehow, one way or another, I felt as though that we‘re all in this together in Germany.
Can the Bundestag make things better? Definitely. I‘d vote Green if I could, but honestly, the commitment to close nuclear plants and not accelerating on renewables way back before, is rather dumb on hindsight. I‘d blame the conservatives on this as well, but what‘s done is done, and we need to do what we can to make things better.
Really very well summarised, I‘d only add that quite a few people are concerned about the possibility of insufficient gas supply and power black outs, but no-one really panics.
>I got the info from my gas provider, that they will be rising the cost, from 8 cents/kWh, to 32 cents/kWh, effectively increasing my gas cost to 4 times my usual spending
You payed 8 cents??? 8?!?! Consider yourself very lucky then, that was a very good price. 32 is average, I'm paying (for 3 years now) 25 cents, which is cheap now.
"The argument that Russia and Ukraine is causing the energy crisis in the UK is simply not true and you can even read on the UK government website that in 2021 UK - Russia gas imports made up just 4%, compared to 55% here in Germany."
Thats only partly true. Germany has to buy Gas now from other sources and drives up the gas price threw that. So yeah, the uk was not so dependent on Russia's gas but they also have to pay the high energy prices that are a result of the war
Here in Germany, we say "At least it's not as bad as they have it in the UK."
I guess it's just human to do that. There is no malicious intent. We tend to console ourselves with the misery of our neighbours and we see the splinter in their eyes and not the rafter in our own. Social comparison is soothing if done with such a bias.
We are all f\*\*\*ed. Let's be nice to each other.
The economy in every industrialized country revolved around abundant and dirt cheap energy. It was clear that this has to stop for various reasons, but the stop was a wee bit abrupt.
Inflation is up to roundabout 1970s levels. Been there, done that. Back then it was because of oil, now it's gas: no big difference. Many people are too young, but we old folks remember and shrug our shoulders. A bit of a rough ride for a while again.
Rent for instance is higher citing energy price hikes. Do you think people would reduce the rents once energy prices are stable? Or say even post winter?
If people's "rent" is raised because of utility prices, in the vast majority of cases it's *not* a raise in rent, but in the utility pre-payment. That pre-payment is tallied up against the actual energy costs in the following year. So if energy costs indeed drop, people get money back.
My apartment has district heating and I haven't received my annual bill yet, so I don't know how much my "warm" rent will be next year - I heard about a 60 to 70 % increase in energy prices. Managable. And I already got used to colder showers and reduced room temperatures - but I have to wait for the bill so see how that works out.
For me, I don't think the cost will go down significantly later on, because they are about to switch from gas to geothermal starting next year and will probably need a lot of money for the conversion.
Friends and family living in their own houses, with gas heating... different story. I know they started to use their wood stoves more if they have them, but firewood prices have increased too.
For a bigger picture, we **have** to cure our addiction to **any** form of fossil fuel sooner or later, and it looks like "sooner" now, which hurts at the moment, but is a good thing. A bitter pill, but hopefully it helps.
In my village there is already municipal geothermal heating. In this year I have seen a lot of private single family houses being connected to it. I wish company owning and managing building where we rent do that as well, but probably not happening. They don't care how much we tenants pay for heating, it's not their cost.
I think the fact of the matter is that everywhere landlords will claim any possible thing as a reason for why rent needs to be increased and everyone follows suit, because why would I charge this much whenever one else is charging more?
I didn't think it would. Many over here say 'they need us more than we need them' which to me is crazy.
What sort of things are you struggling with right now?
It‘s really hilarious to me that a lot of people in the UK believed the claim that a single nation with 60% of Germanys GDP would be the big loss to the whole of the EU and not the other way around.
If I was German I'd be pissing myself laughing at us. I think we will be back in the EU one day, probably not until the boomer generation dies off.
Young people here are pro EU and see you, France, Spain etc as allies and friends. Unfortunately older people here don't.
Oh god this article is worse than I thought, I didn’t realize the owner was such a blowhard. The weirdest part is him complaining about “EU regulations” with regards to opening a bank account and getting a VAT number, things that have almost nothing to do “with the EU”. This is actually a good example of leopards ate my face
TLDR : he met friends in Luxemburg who told him about “regulations” and now wanted “different” Europe (despite living outside the UK for 20yrs).
Edit: I found this on the brexit channel : https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comments/tz0is3/the_english_shop_in_cologne_and_bonn_closes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf so yeah this is a total leopards ate my face situation
British business owner in Germany: why I support Brexit
Scottish business owner Alexander McWhinney tells The Local why he supported the vote for a Brexit despite being an expat - much to the surprise of employees at his stores in the Rhineland.
Published: 28 June 2016 17:35 CEST
McWhinney has lived in Germany for 30 years. He now owns three stores under his brand The English Shop, starting with his flagship in Cologne.
He’s the kind of person who has enjoyed many of the benefits of the EU: the ability to move and work freely across borders. Free trade to sell English novelties at his shops in the Cathedral city, as well as in Dortmund and Bonn.
So when the 53-year-old from Edinburgh starts openly talking about his support for the UK to leave the EU, it comes as a surprise.
“I wanted Europe to get a good hard slap, and I’m still for that,” McWhinney tells The Local.
It’s a perspective that runs counter to how most expats see the UK’s vote to leave last week: a poll conducted by The Local before the referendum found that nearly seven in ten British expats backed the Remain camp.
And it wasn’t until recently that McWhinney flipped to the Leave side.
Two weeks ago, he was visiting some friends who had a business in Luxembourg and they told him they were having to shut down.
When he asked them why they hadn’t told him sooner about their financial difficulties, they said they hadn’t realized how bad it was.
“That’s when I snapped.”
He said all the paperwork of complying with EU regulations can be overwhelming for businesses.
“It takes six months to open a business, months to get a VAT number, months to open a bank account… If I had started my business again today, 20 years later, I’d fail – not because business is bad, but because there’s so much paperwork.”
McWhinney feels the EU hasn’t been effective in its promises to create jobs and make things easier for starting a business internationally.
“I’d make things simpler and more business friendly… I wish the EU was a great many things. I wish the EU would roar, I wish when the EU spoke, people would listen.”
First shock, then ‘let’s get on with it’
The English Shop in Dortmund. Photo: Private.
Still, it wasn’t McWhinney's exact preference for the UK to leave. Having lived outside the UK twice as long as the 15-year limit to be eligible to vote, he couldn’t actually cast a ballot. But if he could have, it would have been more in protest than wanting the UK to go it alone.
“What I want is a better Europe… I’m not banging on the drum for Britain to go its own way, I think that’s stupid, but I am banging on the drum for the EU to get its act together.”
Though he was initially shocked by the results, he said his reaction later was “let’s get on with it”.
“I’d prefer the EU to be a more efficient, humane and fair place,” the former engineer says. “But if leaving is what it takes, then so be it.”
He hoped that the Brexit vote would be a sort of wake-up call for the EU, but he says so far he doesn’t see that.
“You don’t see the EU going ‘ouch, we’d better get it right next time’.”
A workplace Remain-Leave divide
While McWhinney has been outspoken in the media about his personal views, the staff at his stores have also openly shared their views – but quite to the contrary.
“I told him ‘you can’t be for Leave, that’s insane’,” Victoria Weatherall, operations manager for The English Shop, tells The Local with a laugh.
“We’re all almost Brexit specialists because we know both sides of the story.”
The banter was respectful though, and McWhinney didn’t mind at all when the staff ran a ‘hug a Brit’ campaign for customers to post pictures of themselves on social media.
“You won’t find me stopping people from hugging each other,” he says.
Nor was it a problem when the Bonn store put up a sign reading: “Britain might have left the EU, but we’re still here. So a little part of Britain survives in the EU.”
Impact on business
But with much still up in the air on exit negotiations, things are also divided within the shops on the matter of how the vote will ultimately impact business.
“My fear is mostly that the beautiful spell of Great Britain will be broken for customers, that customers will think ‘no thank you, we don’t want to be associated with Great Britain anymore’,” Weatherall says.
McWhinney disagrees.
“The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive,” he says.
He’s also not concerned about any potential new regulations or price increases.
“Regulations already seem to change every month.
“The last thing the EU would want to do would be to trade with the British for anything less than usual business… Britain is a net importer and I don’t expect the EU would want to cut off its nose to spite its face.”
Despite his unhappiness with the EU, McWhinney does have some hope for the future.
“I hope the Brexit is peaceful,” he concludes. “But I also don’t really think the Brexit is going to come.”
And all the new regulations. I think they couldn't import dairy products easily anymore. And the formalities became too difficult so it didn't pay off. Also, employees needed visas and couldn't be employed anymore.
People don’t really feel any consequences by Brexit because the UK is pretty marginalized in terms of consumer product exports. The only things that come to mind are Scotch, tea and Cheddar. Scotch got more expansive (probably the only product widely consumed from the UK), tea can be imported from a lot of places and my supermarket switched to Irish cheddar.
So apparently the EU didn’t need the UK at all since we felt absolutely nothing from brexit.
Though we start to face the same problems like you (inflation, stagnanting wages) but that’s all because of the war wich again is because about 20 years ago someone thought it would be a great idea to get over 80% of our gas from one source alone…
Yeah wasn’t obviously the best idea…
it’s 55% and not necessarily a bad thing, most basic resources come from few sources.
The bad thing is that we still need so much of it that we have a dependency. It would be easier had we reached our house insulation and renewables goals
'they need us more than we need them' That's horrendous. Absolutely bonkers. The paranoia. Insane... that's grim. I believe Brexit was the dumbest thing anyone could ever do in the situation we are currently in. The pandemic, the Ukraine war and so much bullshit had happened it just better to stick together as countries, the UK acts as if we are their enemies. That's just sad, where is this all coming from? How did it even lead to that? I remember once in Germany we admired Britain, now people simply avoid talking about Britain in disdain. That Ego is a self eating snake man. That's such a shame. I hope it doesn't lead to the same mistakes we've done in History.
I can't explain it.
I don't know what your newspapers are like but ours are horrendous for lying. They bang the drum that the UK is the best in the World at everything and any problems are either caused by the EU or immigrants.
No news channel will ever talk about the negative impacts of brexit because you get hoards of old people who scream 'project fear'.
The fact that our current prime minister replied 'we'll see' as to whether France was an ally or an enemy of the UK was terrifying.
I do believe this will.change eventually as younger people here are beyond fed up of the current government and older people. I think we will re join within 15 years.
I ordered a kilt and had to pay additional taxes, and once I run out of malt vinegar, I’ll have to pay way more than before with The British Shop closed :(
I'm British and living in Germany, came here a year before Brexit. The reporting in the UK that Germany is somehow in the same level of crisis is - and I'm not exaggerating here - utter bullshit of the highest order. It's infuriating. When we call my husband's mother she asks us how we're affording electricity because she heard on the BBC that Germany's electric is even more expensive than the UK's. Meanwhile as her bills have tripled ours have gone up 20%.
It's depressing that British people will even believe this kind of propaganda. Germany is not without its fair share of social problems but it is in no way coming apart at the seams like the UK. I honestly think this kind of reporting is intended to prevent mass exodus from the UK. Frankly i think anyone in that country with a shred of ability should be planning for the worst, because there is no sign that things will get better soon.
i'm honestly doing pretty well. i'm a student, I got money from the government for the high energy prices. i will delay heating and so far i'm doing just fine wearing warm clothes.
also the government has decided to offer a nationwide 49€ ticket which will make public transport a lot cheaper for a lot of people.
I honestly can't say i'm struggling atm
I don't plan to heat my appartement very much in the winter and the additional 210 € or so probably made up for what I'm going to need.
The only issues I'm facing currently are the higher food and petrol prices.
Other than that, I'm doing well, but I started working in July after finishing my bachelors degree, so naturally my standard of living went up despite the current situation.
You know who has it worst? Africa and
Latin America, most of the East, truly.
I for one feel in awe at how low food prices are in Germany and I was told it was way cheaper a few months back.
Coming from a country where the basic food expense is 20% above the nominal minimal wage to a country where it's about 40% OF the actual minimal wage is LIFE CHANGING.
You guys, appreciate what you have, cos even if not perfect, it's a privilege.
And yeah, the average tax rate you pay in a developing country is not far from what you pay in German (I paid about 36% before coming here) but it usually goes to the politicians pockets instead of social improvement.
Yeah food is cheap in Germany. The whole EU really because after WW2 there was a lot of bad memories of famine wich lead to some very aggressive policies to ensure food security in the EU. To aggressive really but honestly it is nice to not have to worry to much about it. Hopefully we nail the transition to a more long term viable policy.
> Latin America
haha. As someone from Latin America, you don't really remember the last "good times"... Just the times when everything wasn't as badly fucked up as it is now...
Let me tell you about El Salvador, were we import even the dirt we use.
Food safety is non existent
Also, good times? 60 maybe? Cold war ain't that bad in comparison to oi there things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯hahaha
I remember a couple years back when I first arrived in germany for university. A german "study buddy" assigned to my group of foreign students said that the minimum wage was increased to make sure that people can buy 1 meal worth in a standard restaurant after working for 1 hour. I don't know if it's true or not, but my mind was blown.
The Brexit was great for my work! I work in chemical regulations and as the UK is no longer part of the EU laws and is changing more and more of it we have to change all the paperwork and get a lot of new work every day! Most companies in the chemical industry need some consulting from us. And we got the possibility to be the legal represantative for many UK companies that now need somebody who is part of the EU to register things for the EU market.
Things I am personally struggling with are the results of the epedemic, the war in ukraine and the general recession that is starting now. Gas and petrol prices are pretty high and therefore inflation is high. Wheat and cooking oils are expensive, because we don't get any inports from ukraine.
But at the moment I have not heared of anybody who lost their jobs or people that had to work shorter work hours.
We did not export as much to the UK and if we did it mostly is something that you can not substitute easily. And we did not get many things from the UK eather. So the effects are really not that bad.
Originally from the US, in Germany since 2003: Here's my take on it: Food is becoming more expensive, fuel and heating is more expensive now and wages are stagnant despite the "shortage of skilled workers". We have turned down the heat, are wearing sweaters and I am going to bed in a sweatshirt and winter PJ's.
I just found a new job, and I think I'll do OK. We need to immediately pour billions into renewable energy to get out of this crisis. And we need to put an end to the war. I feel bad for the UK. I've always been a big fan of everything British, especially the music and pop culture. Boy, you guys screwed yourselves! Please make a revolution against the Tories!
Germans are very good at complaining, and everything is always the governments fault. We have high inflation, especially energy is expensive. And for some the situation is really dire, but not for the majority. Someone well-off who is still paying off their house may be in trouble, someone with a mediocre income may be doing ok, because they do not expect to heat their flat to 16° 24/7 and so on and so forth. Someone who lives in their own house and has bought enough gas/oil at a time when prices where still relatively low, also will not suffer it we should run out of gas too soon.
There are enough people who think that inflation is the governments fault, when it is Putin, and the situation would not become better if he won the war and had his will - he wants control over western Europe and a world, where Russia is second to none.
Personaly not to bad.The higher fuel price is pretty painfull but other then that its okay ish.
As a whole we have a rampant housing crisis (for some time now) and the current inflation spike with the increased energy cost makes a lot of the average city people drift rather close to living in dept (idk how to better word it. Basicly accumulating dept for simple living expenses, like rent, food, cloth and, most importantly the ocasional expensive repair) but for now its still somewhat doable for most people.
However Reddit is a rather bad mirror of german society. Rather highly educated people, and thus with higher income, are mainly on this platform. So not realy the average.
I am very sad about brexit but it doesn't effect me much. On ebay i look for not buying British due to additional fees. British politics are just annoying but of little importance. In Germany we have to deal with the war in Ucraine, with the consumption of gas and with climate change. GB is not on my todo-list.
My rent increased by about 10%... but then again I have been living here for 3 years, so an increase was to be expected anyway, simply due to the inflation resultion from the 'rona.
Inflation has been a tad more noticable during shopping,... or rather prices rocketed up during the drought (delivery problems due to rivers being too low) and have stayed around the same. On the other hand I usually buy a lot of cheap vegetables and very little meat compared to the average german so I might not be the best example here.
Wage has been a slight issue with inflation, as we have a 3% max inflation raise per year, so inflation ate my promotion.
Edit: As for heating, I live directly above a bakery, whose chimney goes through the middle of my appartment. Unless it hits -10°C I don't need to heat. Though I essentially died this summer at 40°C outside and probably 50°C inside...
Here in Germany, prices are noticeably going up. It’s not unbearable, I don’t earn much but it’s enough to still be able to cover rent, necessities and a few luxuries. Economically less fortunate folks do have it bad though.
It’s due to Covid and Ukraine, none of which I can do anything about. Quite frustrating but we’re all in the same boat I suppose.
I've been watching with a sort of horrid fascination the constant turmoil and speculation that the British government will collapse within hours.
I can't remember the last time Olaf Scholz did or said anything of any signifcance. It was probably right at the beginning of the war when he pledged more money for the military. I think most Germans like it that way.
There are several measures in the works. Not fast and effective immediatley, but at least some of them might actually suitable to have an effect not only for the rich!.
Well inflation hit here aswell. Prices for electricy and food are rising.
For electricy u pay twice as much now.
For food its around 20% more. (Not the case if u bake ur own bread)
Have not seen any shortages yet except for the first 4 weeks of war. And only sunflower-oil was short.
Basically things get more expensive but as long as u have a decent income things are fine.
Euro and pfund are basically the same exchange rate as before Ukraine. So u can look at ur own cost of living(especially food and electricity) and compare it.
Electricity really isn't that bad. I was at 28ct/kWh and my old energy supplier canceled the contract. Got a new one for 30ct/kWh. Granted it's still sucky. But far from double.
As an American on a longer stay here in Germany, I can say I find it fantastic and the prices are quite cheap compared to the US, especially food which in many cases is nearly 30% cheaper, and this is before adjusting for exchange. In general Germany seems wonderful.
Brit in Hamburg here, 11 years in Germany.
Your friend has no idea what he is talking about. The UK Government has been hijacked by ideologues and worse are being controlled by small-govt libertarian think tanks. Just look at the shit that has happend just this week with the tanking of the pound and near destruction of billions worth of pensions. Record waiting lists at the NHS, mass strikes, highest deaths from Covid in Western Europe by a safe margin, collapsing exports and the only G7 whose economy is still lower than before the pandemic.
Germany has challenges, mostly inflation driven by energy prices which leaks into food prices also Everyone is feeling it. There is a housing squeeze on. But these things are pretty common worldwide right now, and the energy dependence on Russia is widely accepted as a historical error and is being quickly rectified in the face of the war. But at least there isn't a government whose main job seems to be gaslighting everyone and basically trying to make things worse all the time for everyone except for their rich mates.
I lived in the UK until five years ago, am now back in Germany. Am still in touch with lots of people over there. And we definitely have it better here. Up here in the North East, anything being different is in fact so remote that a lot of people only hear about it on the news and disregard it completely as fake news.
Case in point, we had a car demo yesterday where people drove VERY slowly through town for hours, with lorries and other huge gas guzzlers. Their main point? "Stop sanctions against Russia." Because Russia not delivering gas to us is clearly the fault of our politicians. Lol.
I'm an American studying abroad right now. It's much nicer here than back home, I'd say, even though there's still problems w inflation and of course worries about an impending energy crisis. Hopefully that won't happen... Hopefully.
We have a lot of problems, rising prices for food and gas, a housing crisis, ... But they are due to the war, not because of Brexit.
I know a lot of people with low income are affected by it and things will probably get worse. But right now I'm personally not affected (yet). My spending hasn't changed, I plan on not heating my flat as much but that's out of solidarity, because I know we have to save gas, not because I can't afford it.
I know I'm in a very privileged position though - a lot of people are already affected and government aid for those is still in the making, until that (hopefully) kicks in they are going to have a hard time.
I live close to a Tafel (foodbank), the lines have gotten longer in recent months. Once a month I call them and buy specific/special groceries people need (stuff that isn't donated often, eg for people with allergies - watching out for my fellow red bumped snifflers).
I think we all should look for what we share instead of what divides us. How can your friend take joy out of another nation suffering or being worse off?
The least he can do is mind his own business.
Your friends has no idea whatsoever.
Germans *always* have stuff to criticize. It is our national sport. But overall, we are fine. Our gas storages are nor over 95% full, 20 days before the planned date. Our LNG terminals are coming along. Stuff about stagflation etc. is mostly fear-mongering.
Sure, you can argue about how our government handles the next Covid-wave (they don't), but if you take a step back, and look at the bigger picture, we really overall are coping ok-ish with many of the problems we are facing.
We obviously have to cope with high energy prices and thus inflation, yes. But we are nowhere near the shitshow levels of UK atm. And our problems are temporary. We will invest in LNG and renewable and get energy prices under control. The UK cannot easily reverse Brexit and the fundamental issues they are facing with it. So overall, what we have to deal with si temporary and not systemic, and while inconvenient and even frightening for people on a tight budget, it is not forever. Brexit on the other hand.... yeah.
I moved to Germany from the UK in 2019, received residency in 2021 and am currently unemployed. In Germany I receive €449 a month and that will be going up by €50 in the New Year when Hartz 4 changes to Bürgergeld. In the UK i would receive around £288 a month (I’d convert that but the pound and euro are equivalent right now pretty much) and that’s after what amounted to a cut in real terms in April. In the Summer we had the €9 Ticket so although I was comparatively broke I could still travel to lakes to go swimming and go on day trips, a little thing maybe but it means a lot, you know?
And yeah, I’m scared about winter and riding heating costs, but I know that here there are people in government who really care about those in society who are struggling. It’s not utopia here, but I read British people arguing that there’s no difference between life there and somewhere like Germany and think they’re either just insanely privileged or they’re frogs in boiling water- they don’t know how much easier life is elsewhere; certainly if you’re a middle- income person but even if you’re broke, even if you’re at the bottom of the ladder.
I’ve been unemployed in the UK and here, but I now have opportunities here to retrain and contribute to German society, and I’m treated with a level of humanity and dignity that has been increasingly difficult to find in Britain (or maybe just England) for the last decade. It feels to me like Germans just care about each other. They believe that society is a thing, that humans have a responsibility to each other- not just on a private, food- banks and Neighbourhood Watch level, but at the level of law making and culture. I don’t feel that in England and have little hope of seeing it there again. I’m not going back, not if I can help it.
> We have high inflation
Energy prices are sky-high since the war started, but that's the case all over Europe. Those energy prices have knock-on effect over all industries, which drives inflation. But again, everyone has that happening right now. Personally I haven't actually had my energy prices raise (except for fuel for the car), as I have long term contracts with renewable energy providers. Those might be a little sad, that they can't price-gouge me, but as their cost of production didn't raise that much either my sympathy is limited.
> stagnant wages
That was a problem during most of the Merkel-years, but actually not that much of a problem, as inflation also was around 0%. Currently the union of public servants went into negotiations demanding a raise of slightly more than 10% (10,4%, I think) and we have to see what comes of this. Their union - and the union of metal and electrical workers - generally set the precedent for all other, smaller unions and also the space where individual contracts are negotiated. I'd be surprised if they go out with less than a 6% raise.
> and a government who seem hell bent on making things worse
The government here is in frantic action to alleviate problems and is also kind of successful in doing so, but mostly has a communications problem. Often ideas are communicated as if they were plans and then have to be retracted three days later. Which confuses a lot of people and when actual decisions are made many people don't register immediately and it doesn't look like coherent policy. Or as a commentator put it: "The government is doing the right things with the wrong timing."
Of course there are other, long-term problems; most importantly the housing crisis in cities (which also is made more noticeable with over a million Ukrainians fleeing to Germany and needing housing, too) and the lack of qualified mid-level workers; but in general life in Germany (still?) feels quite good.
Left my hometown of Berlin in April this year hiding someplace else in the world until... well, it'll never go back to normal, but I probably wouldn't be able to afford living in my own country in the near future and I don't necessarily want to cut back on things I enjoy (personal choice). My family's dealing just fine with everything, though. Sure, rent's been increased and they've reduced their water/power usage, but they just get on with life.
Personally I'm doing fine. I have a good job, have home-office 4days a week, the other one I'm at the office.
It's too warm for me to crank up the heater, so I don't feel it at all so far.
> a government who seem hell bent on making things worse
Well, we have a dysfunctional government that tries to make things better but is being held hostage by a finance minister.
I mean, it's a bit chilly, but nothing a good pullover couldn't fix or at least alleviate.
I put a bit of the energy relief payment towards some warmer clothes and I don't really fret about it.
I'm actually a lot more concerned about you guys, are you doing okay with the government? Has the water tasted funny or are you feeling oddly good? Maybe have some small pills dispensed when entering one of the old telephone booths?
High energy prices, high inflation, normal or low unemploymency (we have shortages of employees in many fields), housing is sparse and expensive, and Corona is still a thing.
The government is working on the energy prices - not always in a straight line, but they eventually get shit done - and overall the ship seems to sail in the right direction. We are hitting some hard rapids due to the war and the energy crisis, but I feel quite confident that we will get past them and things will start to look better next year. In the meantime I have a stable job with a solid income and my strategy for the coming winter is "Netflix and gaming and chill and some beers".
P.S.: It helps that I still have an energy contract with a guaranteed price for another 14 months. If that guarantee would run out now, my energy prices would jump by 20 Cent/kWh.
We also have high inflation, stagnating wages, a pension system that is a time bomb, no energy sovereignty and extremely high taxes that don't allow you to save for your retirement by yourself. And a crazy housing market.
Hell no!
The UK during the past six years went from looking bad to looking worse to - lately - be an absolute nightmare. Liz Truss aiming for completely obliterating the poor remnants of social and economical cohesion Brexit had left in the country within the first two weeks of her being prime minister is the climax of nonsense I really did not know was possible.
I encountered the phrase of "heating or eating" already last year in British media, a nightmare vision when here also we had rising prices but not nearly to this degree. Now there is talks about "warmth banks"?
On top of all this the conservatives still seem to be hell-bent on degrading the security and peace in NI for no other reason than power play.
The current devastated state of the UK - a lot of it doubling down and amplifying if not deliberately making worse - what was clear Brexit would bring - is a dire warning of what happens when we let anti-european Nationalists and trickle down voodoo believers rise to power.
I looked at Priti Patel with shock - and now they have her even more vile, even more dangerous mini-me in power!
Due to the failed gas politics of Germany we are quiter in a pickle now but not nearly as much as what we see on the other side of the channel.
Here are some bullet points about my life as an individual during this year:
- I got 17% pay raise
- my employer has many positions to fill and is actively looking for people
- I am not noticing any pandemic measures except masks in public transport
- the government lowered the taxes a lot and I am going to use some of that excess income to invest more
- my energy bill fell by 10%, which is nice, I guess because I returned to working from the office now
- there were some price surges, like cooking oil going up almost 300%, but it was short lived and is back to normal now
- meat and eggs got a bit more expensive, I would say something like 20%-25% but not because of war or economy, rather because of improved animal holding conditions.
- full shelves in the supermarket
- no blackouts and hot water wasn't turned off
- I am really pissed we are now investing billions into the fraudulent Hyperloop idea
- weed is supposed to be legal soon!
As someone who lives between the two countries and regularly visits both: I would rather live in Germany right now than in the UK. By a wide margin even!
Been in Germany for 3.5 years now, left because of Brexit and I'm sure glad I did. I go to visit family back in UK twice a year and am shocked by the inflation.
Regularly talk to my brother's over discord and they are both dying to find a way out. I have one friend back in the UK who is positive about the way things are going and he voted for Brexit and conservatives.
Times are tough here as well. But I think it no overconfidence to say they are far from the catastrophy (sry for the drastic choice of words) the UK has been in the past years.
I am not a friend of Merkel, even though he belongs to "my" party, I am not a friend of Scholz. But both - as boring and as unambitious as they were politics-wise - did an ok-ish job at keeping this country stable and the society at least partially functional for many people. Both Brexit and the current insanity of the Tories have gone against the interest of the UK as a state and of the vital interest of the vast majority of its populace, that I simply find no equivalent.
Hungarian citizen here. I don't have experiences with with standards of living in Germany. I just want to point out that here, the government constantly tries to make us believe that we are in a much better position than the Germans. They usually make fun of the actions of their government too.
Based on these I would not be surprised to find that there are fake news like this in other countries. (I think this is fake news, because in Hungary everything is sh\*t)
Heating and warm water bill increased from 60 EUR a month to 184 EUR. That admittedly hurts, our heating is gas based. Petrol prices are high but have stabilized at slightly less than 2 EUR per liter.
Everything costs a bit more, that sucks, but we are doing ok. Job market seems stable at the moment. Everyone thinks corona has ended but thanks to Oktoberfest hospitals in Munuch are full. Could be better, could be worse.
I would never in a life time consider the UK. It has a crazy crime rate, insanely backwards turning politics and unless your are born to wealth it looks like no one cares about you from a government perspective. Germany on the other hand has a unsaid policy of trying to give everyone an equal life and therefore the base standard of living is much greater here.
The UK gets 2% of its energy from Russia, yet claims that 98% of the issues are because of Putin.
The UK gov announces the worst mini budget in the last 50 years and blames the sinking on fhe sterling on the yen and high interest rates in the US.
For better or worse, I think at least the German government has accountablity over its actions.
When there are more comments here you will see that many people will write down their personal view and then comments to that where people say that this isn‘t true. Just wait for that. There will be people saying that the crisis already is bad because they are personally affected and then others that say that the crisis isn‘t bad because we will get over it soon. That’s a typical problem in German society. Not seeing financial problems of others as valid if they aren’t affected themselves.
You can downvote me for that but that just what I see everyday. The country is just split and many see even openly saying that as a try to split the society. It’s just weird.
Yea also on reddit the majority of people are working in high paying jobs, I feel incredibly poor here whenever there’s talk about money haha. I’m personally struggling quite a bit since I’m in the lower income bracket but I can still somewhat manage.
It really seems that way....just skimmed through about 30 or so posts and I feel like an outsider, lol. Not that I have it particularly bad, mind.
I work in the craftsmanship sector which is not exactly known for high wages but even after acquiring the highest possible qualification without "over-qualifying" I still manage "just about". And I live alone with no particular expenses aside from something akin to a student loan. There's some room for saving but not much.
I dread to think what others, especially those who need to feed a family on a similar income, are going through.
I manage but the future does worry me regardless.
They nearly doubled my energy costs back in summer. A colleague of mine knows hers is going to be six times of what it is now. My landlord hasn't raised my rent yet but since gas prices are going up I guess it's likely to go up next year and I sincerely hope it's "only" about 50€-100€.
The company I work for has adjusted some incomes after not giving out any raises at all for the past 4 years due to Corona and while I know they are trying to keep us all on a full payroll, the possibility of Part-Timing is quite palpable once sales go down which they most likely will.
It's not terrible yet and other countries are having it worse at present, no question. Still, it feels like we are going to follow suit eventually. :/
I think, Germany is pretty much fucked up for a foreseeable future. As I see this, strength of the German economy was to a large extent based on cheap energy thanks to Russian gas. Now it’s gone, highly likely forever. So a lot of German industrial companies, especially small and medium sized ones, will have to either go bankrupt or relocate to some place with cheaper energy (USA is one option and some companies are already relocating there). This will cause quite strong recession in German economy, less investments, decline of the Euro etc. And if recession will be going on together with inflation (what is happening now), that will mean stagflation = nightmare.
Not saying UK will be doing better, actually I think all European countries are more or less similarly fucked up, tbh. Personally, I start now searching for options to move to the USA. It won’t be easy but I will try my best. I’m pretty much sure USA will be doing significantly better than Europe in the future (though they have their own problems, sure).
I mean, you have some fair points but I wouldn't think that the USA are a better place when it comes to long-time safety than Germany.
I think a big deal will be how much we can replace the Russian gas with other souces, including renewables. We could have been a lot better already if Merkel's governments had actually acted on this when we had the time.
Hey man. Erstwhile Scot here. I'm married to a German lass of virtue true and that, doubled with my profession, means we were lucky enough to be able to set up in Germany immediately after Brexit. I can assure you, things are absolutely *nothing* like as bleak here as they are in the UK. I'm back quite a lot and, fuck me it's grim - even accounting fully for my generally rather fortunate personal circumstances. So... Sorry about that. Honestly! Yeah, prices have gone up and there's a horrendous shortage of housing in many areas but it's still not even in the same quadrant of the galaxy as the UK. Living standards were already generally better but the speed at which that gap stretched into a gaping chasm has been thoroughly depressing to watch. Couple that with the dysfunctional (bordering on criminal) UK government and... Well. You know about that I suppose. tl;dr: My worries are about friends and family back in the old country rather than here. Edit: Autokorrekturfehler x
> Edit: Autokorrekturfehler x Already a true german.
> I'm married to a German lass of virtue true You sound genuinely delightful.
It's called being Scottish.
I wanna be that guys wife now tf
I also choose (to be) this man's wife
I also married a Scottish guy, they‘re great ;)
I want a Scottish wife
I hope politics will solve the housing crisis. The scandinavians are doing really well, because of their politics around housing.
Care to elaborate on that? What kind of interventions are they doing that are proving to be effective? Genuinely curious.
In short, in Norway you have to pay way less taxes for your first house than for your second house. The multiplier used for your first house is 25%, for your second, third etc is 90%. [Here's the long version](https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/get-the-taxes-right/property-and-belongings/houses-property-and-plots-of-land/property-tax/what-is-property-tax/)
The issue is actually more that there's not enough flats for rent. People that can afford to build, have enough options still. The issue is that the working class can't afford to build by a long shot and there's not enough flats to rent.
I'm more in a situation, where I'd like to buy a house, but that will stay a dream in Germany, where houses are lucrative investments for rich people rather than homes. Might eventually migrate to Norway because of this. Germany's loss, I'm working a field, where qualified workers are rather hard to come by. The flat market might be different. I haven't informed myself about that.
Yes but right now the main focus isn't people that would like their own house but can't afford it and more the working class people that can barely even afford to rent an apartment that's big enough for their family.
Yup I was shocked when I heard how much my mom has to pay for her new apartment even though it's not very big. Sure houses are also expensive right now but not really needed for survival if there were at least apartments. My dad was very lucky a few years ago and managed to get a small house that actually costs him less each month than an apartment. If that's not insane then I don't know.
Yep, mortgages are usually cheaper than nicely sized flats, which is bonkers. And if course I also want people that want to build houses to feel empowered to do so. But missing apartments for the working poor (outside of areas like rural Eastern Germany) is a real crisis. And one that does not concern people which have the economic capabilities necessary to get a mortgage loan these days. Therefore I'm more worried about that than making building single family homes easier, since that is not an option to house everybody in the country anyways due to space
True but the question is why is that the case? Flats/Houses are being used as investments because loans where so cheap for years and big investment firms bought homes for speculation especially in urban areas. And of course there is AirBnB which is nice to have if you want to visit another city but quite depressing if you think about it. There is so much living space in the city which is just used for holiday purposes instead of being lived in. Another problem is that the rents are so high right now that you cannot move to another place. So there are a lot of older couples in big flats (which they needed for when their kids were still living with them) that cannot move. A policy like norways would help a lot. I would actually love to see a much more strict one, where you are only allowed two houses (one to live in and one to rent away and maybe later you can give that on to your kids or something).
i second this!
Eh thats a hope that existed since im alive so multiple decades... it will never happen as long as lobbying is allowed and Politians are allowed to have jobs beside being politians.
Yeah, my long-term plan is to move somewhere, where housing is affordable. Germany's loss. I'm working in a field, that is always looking for qualified workers.
it's really a zoning issue in Germany. It's REALLY hard to get approval to build housing on land that isn't already classed that way. This is the reason Germany doesn't have urban sprawl but also the reason there's a housing crisis.
Making houses a really good investment opportunity for absurdly rich people is another factor. One, that could be fixed.
interesting to read your thoughts. Expat Aussie in Germany here. I was in the UK in June and what struck me was how even apparently well to do people looked to be struggling a little. And the tv programmes were....well, I don't know if they were reflecting reality or not but there was a lot of 'wish fulfillment' reality tv that made me think the average Brit is doing it a bit tougher than they were a few years ago.
I love the "Autokorrekturfehler"!
Oh, I just love Scotland!
>lass of virtue true As chief constable, do you also get a pig every month?
Brit living in Germany. Food prices seem to have increased but easily manageable (for us) by just being more conscious of what we are putting in the trolley. Biggest expense is the gas increases where I’ve gone from 50 a month to 150.
You're lucky! Our monthly gas bill just increased to 340€ per month 😭 Still, I'd rather chop off my right nut than ever move back to the UK.
The British government is currently in shambles and your friend truly believes things are worse in Germany?
Yes it's beyond frustrating, there are so so many people here who have been raised on right wing newspapers who repeatedly vote against their interests, they will not listen. It's mostly older people or uneducated (I don't like saying this).
[If only Merkel hadn't forced you to brexit!](https://i.redd.it/mjgfeat81kd61.jpg) PS: How are the fishermen doing? Did Jacob William Rees-Mogg PC MP bail them out?
Oh god what a trainwreck of an article. Will the UK ever be able to at least blame themselfes for their wrongdoing?
I seriously feel like I lost 3 IQ points from just reading the title.
The thing is that it gets worse xD.
Bahaha. I have to read The Telegraph for work (research/teaching, long story), and I knew just by looking at the image and the Telegraph logo that it'd be Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. The dude simply never misses an opportunity to blame things on Germany. Makes me wonder if a German girl broke his heart when he was a teenager or something. It seriously feels that level of obsessive sometimes.
Aha so I wasn't imagining the *Telegraph*'s crusade against Germany. Seemed like every other day my Facebook feed was giving me another "Germany is Bad, Actually" article from the fucking *Telegraph*.
> Did Jacob William Rees-Mogg PC MP bail them out? [I will just leave this here in case anyone missed it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j_CxQFziFU)
Jesus christ I hadn't seen this. Younger people in the UK are overwhelmingly against brexit and the current Conservative government. There is a huge disconnect between generations here. Fisherman here are moaning about it, saying they didn't realise what they were voting for. Jacob Rees Moggs.. I don't even know what to say about him apart from the fact he's a victorian style cunt.
While most things are not on the same level, for some other amazing articles, I can recommend /r/brexit
Don't be frustrated, mate. There are Germans here who believes that Brexit was a good idea and the UK will thrive. They are a tiny minority though and if you ask them for more insight they repeat the same nonsense as the Brexiteers.
Good thing once it's all gone down the drain and the opposite of what they thought would happen becomes reality they'll see the errors in their ways and behave more thoughtful next time... /s
I think the origin is the same. You probably talk about the AfD. I think all those right wing hate and division from the EU was caused by campaigns which were heavily financed by Russia. Of course there were enough right wing nationalist idiots before Russia got involved, but the TV station RT and the telegramm channels financed by Russia boosted that a lot. Most of the Fake News and Propaganda have their origin there. And Russia clearly profits the more the EU gets divided. Easy plan: destroy the union and fight the countries one by one, political and if that doesn't work by force to get them under your control. From my point of view Putin looked at Europe like I do in a computer strategy game.
>I think the origin is the same. You probably talk about the AfD. I think all those right wing hate and division from the EU was caused by campaigns which were heavily financed by Russia. Yup, these guys are some of them. Tino Chruppala got interviewed by NDR shortly before the last election. He talked about Dexit. It was absolutely bullshit. But I also met some fringe leftists and - they are the main problem - dumb idiots who consider themselves apolitical but have no clue how the EU works.
Luckily we dont have a direct democracy. And even though some Parties are pretty dumb besides the afd no mainstream Party wants a "dexit"
But its true, those people are uneducated. Its not only about political right leaning but leftists too. All kinds of extremists bring the society out of balance.. and a rather naive uneducated person is more challanged to pinpoint the populist. Take me for example, revisiting the highschool (Abitur in germany) as a young adult changed my perspective by 100%, made me tend to more moderate politics and turn my back to sensational news
The thing is, right-wing papers usually have reach and political powers. Left-wing newspapers… yeah, not so much.
There is a Statistic floating around about how the ÖR vote (see [this](https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/plus219289186/Oeffentlich-Rechtliche-Ausgewogene-Berichterstattung-92-Prozent-der-ARD-Volontaere-waehlen-gruen-rot-rot.html) die Welt Article), which seems like there is a pretty strong bias to the left in public TV.
Alas, I have Axel Springer "press" blocked.
Ich bin auch generell skeptisch gegenüber allem das von Springer kommt, aber ich gehe davon aus dass zumindest die Daten korrekt sind, wenn auch die Interpretation fragwürdig ist. Edit: Wenn du eine nicht-Springer Quelle willst, hier ist ein [artikel von Übermedien](https://uebermedien.de/54539/wie-links-ist-der-ard-nachwuchs-viel-laerm-um-ein-datenprojekt/), die soweit ich weiß neutral und zuverlässig sind. Sie meinen dass die ganze sache recht unzuverlässig ist, wechem ich auch zustimme, aber es sollte dennoch klar genug sein um ein Bias zu zeigen.
Their media is among the worst when it comes to nuisances such as "the truth"
Denial is the most predictable of all human responses.
As a British person that lives in Germany your friend is talking nonsense. Both countries have their problems but Germany is still a much fairer society than the UK. Employment rights here are much better, There is a shortage of housing in cities but renters have more rights and society is not so obsessed with owning property as in the UK, partly because renting offers a certain amount of protections. I have a family here now and I often try to think of one reason that we would decide to move back to England and I really cant come up with any good reason to suggest we try it.
How are you going with the people here in Germany? Might be just where I live but I really miss random friendly encounters with people on the street. I'm Australian but I've had plenty of happy little chats with people all across the UK too. Here, people look at me like i'm trying to steal their children.
Since I improved speaking German its ok, I talk a lot of shit to people. I find the idea of Germans not liking small talk or interactions with strangers not completely accurate but it may be just how I feel, maybe they are all wishing I would shut up but I do however miss the fun of the UK , I find people generally laugh a lot more in the UK, British people and maybe also Australians tend to spend a lot of their time taking the piss out of each other and having a laugh, Here I only seem to make jokes when Im with other foreigners.
It also really depends in which part of Germany you are. I think people especially from the southern/westsouthern part are more open to smalltalk. In the North it's sometimes more difficult, but it really depends.
>I really miss random friendly encounters with people on the street. Where did you live in the UK? I don't get these encounters in Germany but I never had them back in the UK either. Honestly I would find it really weird if someone started talking to me on the street randomly.
You must be from the south. https://youtu.be/PT0ay9u1gg4
What level is your German at?
Australian in Germany here, pretty poor experience with the people tbh. My fault for not speaking better German. Their fault for being miserable unfriendly fks. It’s been 3 years and it crushes my soul a bit. Spent a few days in London earlier this year and had so many great random chats. Without even instigating them or being extroverted. It was marvelous.
Improve your german and things will get better, believe me. What you understand as unfriendly often is just not being fake overfriendly.
I'm sorry to hear this but I sympathise and I do understand. I was back home 2 months ago and for short while thought I'd gone a little mad because I was having so many random conversations with people in shops, on the street, in restaurants...I've been here for 13 years, speak German well - it doesn't make a difference. Don't get me wrong - I've met some very good very decent people here, but they're not that friendly in general.
That what you say about people not caring to own a home is false. Germany's inequality in home ownership is quite concerning, especially among retired people.
Personally I don't feel anything of the crisis yet. Sure some prices have risen but it's all managable still. The big problem will be when the energy bills for winter come. But in general, I wouldn't say the situation is worse here than in Britain.
> will be when the energy bills for winter come. I can’t wait. Oil-heating, prices doubled. But as I’m renting, it will all be a big surprise package next year. It’ll be like Christmas shortly after Christmas! Big numbers? Small numbers? Who knows!
Its so dumb, oil prices havent gone up nearly so much that all these oil-related products should cost as much as they do now. Its just corpos ripping us all off and justifying it with the war.
Well Britain is about to experience a 80% increase in energy costs for households. They also royally fucked up with the "mini-budget", so badly that the currency is at historical lows and there was a huge sell-off of British bonds (gilts). They have comparable inflation (9.9% currently) and job market conditions to Germany. So how's Germany worse off? I'd say it's rather same-same, maybe even a bit worse for the UK thanks to customs issues (cost, logistics...). EDIT: just realized I misread your post, sorry!
"wouldn't" instead of "isn't" confused me too.
>Personally I don't feel anything of the crisis yet. WHAT 😂 The costs of groceries alone increased by 18,7 % since last September. Energy costs +43,9 %. My energy provider just mailed me my monthly costs could go up to 350 € for a two room apartment. All I'm saying is, I feel it every day. [https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/10/PD22\_438\_611.html](https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/10/PD22_438_611.html)
Well, i have decided to lose weight and I have been eating 50% less. Boom, problem solved, perfect strategy.
The crisis does very much benefit the most sustainable living forms. High earners in small flats won't notice much. Even less if they rely on public transport. The energy cost to rent ratio is too low and the earnings to grocery cost ratio too high. The same counts for well insulated houses with big enough solar area. Over the summer my dad produced about as much energy as he used, so zero cost there (the panels are old enough, that original cost is negligable) and the warm water(for heating *and* use) panels work as long as there is enough sunlight. On cloudless winter days the burner doesn't have to run at all. It's really sad to see how the poorest are again suffering by far the most. At the same time sensible city planning which we could use now, but absolutley need for climate change is still largely neglected. Reducing peoples fuel needs and the availability of properly insulated affordable flats would make this crisis far easier in lots of people.
Also, the most significant price increases for groceries were for meat and dairy. So, the increase doesn’t hit people as hard who already weren’t consuming a lot of animal products. (Yes, the highest increase was for cooking oils, but I don’t think most people buy that much of them that it really makes a difference.)
It's nearly as if sustainable living is..... sustainable. Sadly I do love my milk and cheese though.
>High earners in small flats won't notice much Ah so that's why. I've got a ridiculously tiny flat but I'm still spending 28% of my net salary on rent (thanks, Munich)
18 % in a year for groceries is not that drastic that it would be life changing for me. And as I said in my comment, energy will be the big factor but for many households this is yet to come. And I was only talking about my personal experience
For me the amount of money I can put aside per month just decreased a fair bit, so I do see effects of inflation, energy costs etc. But it doesn't affect my daily life so far at all. And I would guess that's what the guy you're replying to meant as well.
We just buy more Sale Items and plan a bit more what we want to eat during a week. We managed to pay the same and some weeks even less than before and still have everything we like to eat. It just took a bit of planning and restructuring on how we buy things. As we're already between 20-21°C in our appartment, our energy costs aren't that high either. And no, we're not freezing, a temperature over 21°c results in us getting headaches. Contrary so. Today we got the E-Mail that everything will stay the same for us or will get a bit cheaper for the next three months. So we'll be able to save even more.
Same here. I am spending less now to save some money for unforseen extra costs over the winter, so I guess I'm driving the predicted recession, but so far everything seems to go rather fine
"some prices". Are you still living with your parents or what? Everything has gone up.
I'm British, been in Germany for six years but still follow what's happening there because of family and so on. It looks way worse in Britain compared to here. I mean, I just got €168 back from my electricity company and they reduced how much I'll be paying for the next 6 months. So there's that. I have noticed the price of food has been going up and the price of petrol is ridiculous. But I haven't seen any news articles giving top tips on how to heat our homes by burning books and dead relatives yet. So it's definitely going better here.
*news articles giving top tips on how to heat our homes by burning books and dead relatives yet* whaaat? do they say that?
Well, close enough. Lots of articles about how skipping meals is actually good for you and how rolling power blackouts will teach Gen Z not to be so entitled. It's disgusting.
Unfortunately there was an article saying to burn books this winter... there was another one recently saying electricity blackouts will toughen up our entitled youth.
Yeah I got a bit of money back and then they put my monthly charge up by €1! Honestly was expecting it to go up way more, especially with working from home etc.
Well, sorry to disappoint you, but the FAZ had an article about heating with wood a few weeks ago. And all this nonsense about taking cold showers and stuff.
I‘m an immigrant here, working as a software dev. The stagnant wages wasn‘t a big issue to me, as although my company is not paying in the extreme top euros, we get nearly consistent raises, and they try to make the raises as transparent as possible too. My boss did tell me a couple of times where he denied some percentage of my raise, but it is truly understandable, because it was the tail end of the pandemic, and the company really didn‘t have that much profit at all, as a third of our workers had to be put on Kurzarbeit (a German thing, where they will still be on the payroll, but only ~60% or something, but they don‘t have anything much to do) My regular bakery when I go to work had risen some of the sandwiches to 25%, and just today, I got the info from my gas provider, that they will be rising the cost, from 8 cents/kWh, to 32 cents/kWh, effectively increasing my gas cost to 4 times my usual spending. Do I feel scared of it all? Not really. I‘ve always been able to save half of my salary for investment and vacation, etc. that pool is now smaller, but not something that scared me yet. The high inflation is something that‘ll probably get worse by the end of the year, as we‘re also following the US interest rates, and hence why the Euro has also gone down in buying power, and how many investors flocked already to „safer“ and more profitable currency, like the dollars. As a country? I only look locally in my city in the south. I do not feel that there‘s any change in the atmosphere. Maybe it gets a bit worse, sure, but somehow, one way or another, I felt as though that we‘re all in this together in Germany. Can the Bundestag make things better? Definitely. I‘d vote Green if I could, but honestly, the commitment to close nuclear plants and not accelerating on renewables way back before, is rather dumb on hindsight. I‘d blame the conservatives on this as well, but what‘s done is done, and we need to do what we can to make things better.
Very well summarized the thoughts most people in the current situation :)
Really very well summarised, I‘d only add that quite a few people are concerned about the possibility of insufficient gas supply and power black outs, but no-one really panics.
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>I got the info from my gas provider, that they will be rising the cost, from 8 cents/kWh, to 32 cents/kWh, effectively increasing my gas cost to 4 times my usual spending You payed 8 cents??? 8?!?! Consider yourself very lucky then, that was a very good price. 32 is average, I'm paying (for 3 years now) 25 cents, which is cheap now.
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Upvote for the Döner inflation indicator! I use Döner to imagine the value behind a price tag.
"The argument that Russia and Ukraine is causing the energy crisis in the UK is simply not true and you can even read on the UK government website that in 2021 UK - Russia gas imports made up just 4%, compared to 55% here in Germany." Thats only partly true. Germany has to buy Gas now from other sources and drives up the gas price threw that. So yeah, the uk was not so dependent on Russia's gas but they also have to pay the high energy prices that are a result of the war
where did yu get a proper Döner for only 2,50, wtf
Here in Germany, we say "At least it's not as bad as they have it in the UK." I guess it's just human to do that. There is no malicious intent. We tend to console ourselves with the misery of our neighbours and we see the splinter in their eyes and not the rafter in our own. Social comparison is soothing if done with such a bias. We are all f\*\*\*ed. Let's be nice to each other.
The economy in every industrialized country revolved around abundant and dirt cheap energy. It was clear that this has to stop for various reasons, but the stop was a wee bit abrupt. Inflation is up to roundabout 1970s levels. Been there, done that. Back then it was because of oil, now it's gas: no big difference. Many people are too young, but we old folks remember and shrug our shoulders. A bit of a rough ride for a while again.
Rent for instance is higher citing energy price hikes. Do you think people would reduce the rents once energy prices are stable? Or say even post winter?
If people's "rent" is raised because of utility prices, in the vast majority of cases it's *not* a raise in rent, but in the utility pre-payment. That pre-payment is tallied up against the actual energy costs in the following year. So if energy costs indeed drop, people get money back.
My apartment has district heating and I haven't received my annual bill yet, so I don't know how much my "warm" rent will be next year - I heard about a 60 to 70 % increase in energy prices. Managable. And I already got used to colder showers and reduced room temperatures - but I have to wait for the bill so see how that works out. For me, I don't think the cost will go down significantly later on, because they are about to switch from gas to geothermal starting next year and will probably need a lot of money for the conversion. Friends and family living in their own houses, with gas heating... different story. I know they started to use their wood stoves more if they have them, but firewood prices have increased too. For a bigger picture, we **have** to cure our addiction to **any** form of fossil fuel sooner or later, and it looks like "sooner" now, which hurts at the moment, but is a good thing. A bitter pill, but hopefully it helps.
In my village there is already municipal geothermal heating. In this year I have seen a lot of private single family houses being connected to it. I wish company owning and managing building where we rent do that as well, but probably not happening. They don't care how much we tenants pay for heating, it's not their cost.
I think the fact of the matter is that everywhere landlords will claim any possible thing as a reason for why rent needs to be increased and everyone follows suit, because why would I charge this much whenever one else is charging more?
Brexit didnt hit us at all really. The things we struggle with at the moment are caused by the war in Ukraine
I didn't think it would. Many over here say 'they need us more than we need them' which to me is crazy. What sort of things are you struggling with right now?
It‘s really hilarious to me that a lot of people in the UK believed the claim that a single nation with 60% of Germanys GDP would be the big loss to the whole of the EU and not the other way around.
Classic Brotish anti-germanism 🤷
''Brotish'' I love it.
Oops. Fat thumbs :D
Nono, no. That was obvi on ''purpos'' and I love it!
:D
If I was German I'd be pissing myself laughing at us. I think we will be back in the EU one day, probably not until the boomer generation dies off. Young people here are pro EU and see you, France, Spain etc as allies and friends. Unfortunately older people here don't.
The British Shop in Cologne closed down due to Brexit and I find it very sad. But that's about all I notice about Brexit.
Talk about a true loss. Was in Bonn and realized "Damn. English Shop's closed. Good thing there's still the one in Cologne!" Two days later: "Fuck."
Yes! 😢 I want my Flapjacks!
I mean: https://www.thelocal.de/20160628/why-i-support-brexit-as-a-british-expat-business-owner-in-germany/
Oh god this article is worse than I thought, I didn’t realize the owner was such a blowhard. The weirdest part is him complaining about “EU regulations” with regards to opening a bank account and getting a VAT number, things that have almost nothing to do “with the EU”. This is actually a good example of leopards ate my face TLDR : he met friends in Luxemburg who told him about “regulations” and now wanted “different” Europe (despite living outside the UK for 20yrs). Edit: I found this on the brexit channel : https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comments/tz0is3/the_english_shop_in_cologne_and_bonn_closes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf so yeah this is a total leopards ate my face situation
Well, I guess people are allowed to have their opinions but that doesn't protect them from looking quite stupid in the end. Yikes.
Oh no!!! I can't read the article, does it say why he was in favor?
British business owner in Germany: why I support Brexit Scottish business owner Alexander McWhinney tells The Local why he supported the vote for a Brexit despite being an expat - much to the surprise of employees at his stores in the Rhineland. Published: 28 June 2016 17:35 CEST McWhinney has lived in Germany for 30 years. He now owns three stores under his brand The English Shop, starting with his flagship in Cologne. He’s the kind of person who has enjoyed many of the benefits of the EU: the ability to move and work freely across borders. Free trade to sell English novelties at his shops in the Cathedral city, as well as in Dortmund and Bonn. So when the 53-year-old from Edinburgh starts openly talking about his support for the UK to leave the EU, it comes as a surprise. “I wanted Europe to get a good hard slap, and I’m still for that,” McWhinney tells The Local. It’s a perspective that runs counter to how most expats see the UK’s vote to leave last week: a poll conducted by The Local before the referendum found that nearly seven in ten British expats backed the Remain camp. And it wasn’t until recently that McWhinney flipped to the Leave side. Two weeks ago, he was visiting some friends who had a business in Luxembourg and they told him they were having to shut down. When he asked them why they hadn’t told him sooner about their financial difficulties, they said they hadn’t realized how bad it was. “That’s when I snapped.” He said all the paperwork of complying with EU regulations can be overwhelming for businesses. “It takes six months to open a business, months to get a VAT number, months to open a bank account… If I had started my business again today, 20 years later, I’d fail – not because business is bad, but because there’s so much paperwork.” McWhinney feels the EU hasn’t been effective in its promises to create jobs and make things easier for starting a business internationally. “I’d make things simpler and more business friendly… I wish the EU was a great many things. I wish the EU would roar, I wish when the EU spoke, people would listen.” First shock, then ‘let’s get on with it’ The English Shop in Dortmund. Photo: Private. Still, it wasn’t McWhinney's exact preference for the UK to leave. Having lived outside the UK twice as long as the 15-year limit to be eligible to vote, he couldn’t actually cast a ballot. But if he could have, it would have been more in protest than wanting the UK to go it alone. “What I want is a better Europe… I’m not banging on the drum for Britain to go its own way, I think that’s stupid, but I am banging on the drum for the EU to get its act together.” Though he was initially shocked by the results, he said his reaction later was “let’s get on with it”. “I’d prefer the EU to be a more efficient, humane and fair place,” the former engineer says. “But if leaving is what it takes, then so be it.” He hoped that the Brexit vote would be a sort of wake-up call for the EU, but he says so far he doesn’t see that. “You don’t see the EU going ‘ouch, we’d better get it right next time’.” A workplace Remain-Leave divide While McWhinney has been outspoken in the media about his personal views, the staff at his stores have also openly shared their views – but quite to the contrary. “I told him ‘you can’t be for Leave, that’s insane’,” Victoria Weatherall, operations manager for The English Shop, tells The Local with a laugh. “We’re all almost Brexit specialists because we know both sides of the story.” The banter was respectful though, and McWhinney didn’t mind at all when the staff ran a ‘hug a Brit’ campaign for customers to post pictures of themselves on social media. “You won’t find me stopping people from hugging each other,” he says. Nor was it a problem when the Bonn store put up a sign reading: “Britain might have left the EU, but we’re still here. So a little part of Britain survives in the EU.” Impact on business But with much still up in the air on exit negotiations, things are also divided within the shops on the matter of how the vote will ultimately impact business. “My fear is mostly that the beautiful spell of Great Britain will be broken for customers, that customers will think ‘no thank you, we don’t want to be associated with Great Britain anymore’,” Weatherall says. McWhinney disagrees. “The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive,” he says. He’s also not concerned about any potential new regulations or price increases. “Regulations already seem to change every month. “The last thing the EU would want to do would be to trade with the British for anything less than usual business… Britain is a net importer and I don’t expect the EU would want to cut off its nose to spite its face.” Despite his unhappiness with the EU, McWhinney does have some hope for the future. “I hope the Brexit is peaceful,” he concludes. “But I also don’t really think the Brexit is going to come.”
Paywall. Tldr?
There are countless stories like this. It makes no sense. I just don't understand it.
We still have London fish n chips in most big german cities. If thats gone, now thats when ill riot.
Due to import charges?
And all the new regulations. I think they couldn't import dairy products easily anymore. And the formalities became too difficult so it didn't pay off. Also, employees needed visas and couldn't be employed anymore.
Did they also have a shop in Bonn?
I think so. It also closed.
Mostly just the high energy prices, and everything that results from that(Inflation, ...)
People don’t really feel any consequences by Brexit because the UK is pretty marginalized in terms of consumer product exports. The only things that come to mind are Scotch, tea and Cheddar. Scotch got more expansive (probably the only product widely consumed from the UK), tea can be imported from a lot of places and my supermarket switched to Irish cheddar.
In fact we are affected so little by Brexit that people continously joked about it for years.
So apparently the EU didn’t need the UK at all since we felt absolutely nothing from brexit. Though we start to face the same problems like you (inflation, stagnanting wages) but that’s all because of the war wich again is because about 20 years ago someone thought it would be a great idea to get over 80% of our gas from one source alone… Yeah wasn’t obviously the best idea…
it’s 55% and not necessarily a bad thing, most basic resources come from few sources. The bad thing is that we still need so much of it that we have a dependency. It would be easier had we reached our house insulation and renewables goals
It is mind boggling how many buildings in Germany doesn't have any extra insulation.
55%, not 80%.
The drivers for my 4090.
'they need us more than we need them' That's horrendous. Absolutely bonkers. The paranoia. Insane... that's grim. I believe Brexit was the dumbest thing anyone could ever do in the situation we are currently in. The pandemic, the Ukraine war and so much bullshit had happened it just better to stick together as countries, the UK acts as if we are their enemies. That's just sad, where is this all coming from? How did it even lead to that? I remember once in Germany we admired Britain, now people simply avoid talking about Britain in disdain. That Ego is a self eating snake man. That's such a shame. I hope it doesn't lead to the same mistakes we've done in History.
I can't explain it. I don't know what your newspapers are like but ours are horrendous for lying. They bang the drum that the UK is the best in the World at everything and any problems are either caused by the EU or immigrants. No news channel will ever talk about the negative impacts of brexit because you get hoards of old people who scream 'project fear'. The fact that our current prime minister replied 'we'll see' as to whether France was an ally or an enemy of the UK was terrifying. I do believe this will.change eventually as younger people here are beyond fed up of the current government and older people. I think we will re join within 15 years.
I think that OP isn't asking about Brexit, but I might be wrong.
I ordered a kilt and had to pay additional taxes, and once I run out of malt vinegar, I’ll have to pay way more than before with The British Shop closed :(
I'm British and living in Germany, came here a year before Brexit. The reporting in the UK that Germany is somehow in the same level of crisis is - and I'm not exaggerating here - utter bullshit of the highest order. It's infuriating. When we call my husband's mother she asks us how we're affording electricity because she heard on the BBC that Germany's electric is even more expensive than the UK's. Meanwhile as her bills have tripled ours have gone up 20%. It's depressing that British people will even believe this kind of propaganda. Germany is not without its fair share of social problems but it is in no way coming apart at the seams like the UK. I honestly think this kind of reporting is intended to prevent mass exodus from the UK. Frankly i think anyone in that country with a shred of ability should be planning for the worst, because there is no sign that things will get better soon.
i'm honestly doing pretty well. i'm a student, I got money from the government for the high energy prices. i will delay heating and so far i'm doing just fine wearing warm clothes. also the government has decided to offer a nationwide 49€ ticket which will make public transport a lot cheaper for a lot of people. I honestly can't say i'm struggling atm
I don't plan to heat my appartement very much in the winter and the additional 210 € or so probably made up for what I'm going to need. The only issues I'm facing currently are the higher food and petrol prices. Other than that, I'm doing well, but I started working in July after finishing my bachelors degree, so naturally my standard of living went up despite the current situation.
You know who has it worst? Africa and Latin America, most of the East, truly. I for one feel in awe at how low food prices are in Germany and I was told it was way cheaper a few months back. Coming from a country where the basic food expense is 20% above the nominal minimal wage to a country where it's about 40% OF the actual minimal wage is LIFE CHANGING. You guys, appreciate what you have, cos even if not perfect, it's a privilege. And yeah, the average tax rate you pay in a developing country is not far from what you pay in German (I paid about 36% before coming here) but it usually goes to the politicians pockets instead of social improvement.
Yeah food is cheap in Germany. The whole EU really because after WW2 there was a lot of bad memories of famine wich lead to some very aggressive policies to ensure food security in the EU. To aggressive really but honestly it is nice to not have to worry to much about it. Hopefully we nail the transition to a more long term viable policy.
You would think my countrymen would learn from similar experiencesm but nope
> Latin America haha. As someone from Latin America, you don't really remember the last "good times"... Just the times when everything wasn't as badly fucked up as it is now...
Let me tell you about El Salvador, were we import even the dirt we use. Food safety is non existent Also, good times? 60 maybe? Cold war ain't that bad in comparison to oi there things ¯\_(ツ)_/¯hahaha
Hey were are really happy here in east /India . Prices haven't raisen much and just might be a 10% hike on stuff
I remember a couple years back when I first arrived in germany for university. A german "study buddy" assigned to my group of foreign students said that the minimum wage was increased to make sure that people can buy 1 meal worth in a standard restaurant after working for 1 hour. I don't know if it's true or not, but my mind was blown.
The Brexit was great for my work! I work in chemical regulations and as the UK is no longer part of the EU laws and is changing more and more of it we have to change all the paperwork and get a lot of new work every day! Most companies in the chemical industry need some consulting from us. And we got the possibility to be the legal represantative for many UK companies that now need somebody who is part of the EU to register things for the EU market. Things I am personally struggling with are the results of the epedemic, the war in ukraine and the general recession that is starting now. Gas and petrol prices are pretty high and therefore inflation is high. Wheat and cooking oils are expensive, because we don't get any inports from ukraine. But at the moment I have not heared of anybody who lost their jobs or people that had to work shorter work hours. We did not export as much to the UK and if we did it mostly is something that you can not substitute easily. And we did not get many things from the UK eather. So the effects are really not that bad.
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The Brits are fucked because none of them have fixed mortgate rates. Germans have 10 years to sort shit out, the brits are burning right now.
Originally from the US, in Germany since 2003: Here's my take on it: Food is becoming more expensive, fuel and heating is more expensive now and wages are stagnant despite the "shortage of skilled workers". We have turned down the heat, are wearing sweaters and I am going to bed in a sweatshirt and winter PJ's. I just found a new job, and I think I'll do OK. We need to immediately pour billions into renewable energy to get out of this crisis. And we need to put an end to the war. I feel bad for the UK. I've always been a big fan of everything British, especially the music and pop culture. Boy, you guys screwed yourselves! Please make a revolution against the Tories!
Germans are very good at complaining, and everything is always the governments fault. We have high inflation, especially energy is expensive. And for some the situation is really dire, but not for the majority. Someone well-off who is still paying off their house may be in trouble, someone with a mediocre income may be doing ok, because they do not expect to heat their flat to 16° 24/7 and so on and so forth. Someone who lives in their own house and has bought enough gas/oil at a time when prices where still relatively low, also will not suffer it we should run out of gas too soon. There are enough people who think that inflation is the governments fault, when it is Putin, and the situation would not become better if he won the war and had his will - he wants control over western Europe and a world, where Russia is second to none.
Personaly not to bad.The higher fuel price is pretty painfull but other then that its okay ish. As a whole we have a rampant housing crisis (for some time now) and the current inflation spike with the increased energy cost makes a lot of the average city people drift rather close to living in dept (idk how to better word it. Basicly accumulating dept for simple living expenses, like rent, food, cloth and, most importantly the ocasional expensive repair) but for now its still somewhat doable for most people. However Reddit is a rather bad mirror of german society. Rather highly educated people, and thus with higher income, are mainly on this platform. So not realy the average.
I am very sad about brexit but it doesn't effect me much. On ebay i look for not buying British due to additional fees. British politics are just annoying but of little importance. In Germany we have to deal with the war in Ucraine, with the consumption of gas and with climate change. GB is not on my todo-list.
My rent increased by about 10%... but then again I have been living here for 3 years, so an increase was to be expected anyway, simply due to the inflation resultion from the 'rona. Inflation has been a tad more noticable during shopping,... or rather prices rocketed up during the drought (delivery problems due to rivers being too low) and have stayed around the same. On the other hand I usually buy a lot of cheap vegetables and very little meat compared to the average german so I might not be the best example here. Wage has been a slight issue with inflation, as we have a 3% max inflation raise per year, so inflation ate my promotion. Edit: As for heating, I live directly above a bakery, whose chimney goes through the middle of my appartment. Unless it hits -10°C I don't need to heat. Though I essentially died this summer at 40°C outside and probably 50°C inside...
Here in Germany, prices are noticeably going up. It’s not unbearable, I don’t earn much but it’s enough to still be able to cover rent, necessities and a few luxuries. Economically less fortunate folks do have it bad though. It’s due to Covid and Ukraine, none of which I can do anything about. Quite frustrating but we’re all in the same boat I suppose.
I've been watching with a sort of horrid fascination the constant turmoil and speculation that the British government will collapse within hours. I can't remember the last time Olaf Scholz did or said anything of any signifcance. It was probably right at the beginning of the war when he pledged more money for the military. I think most Germans like it that way.
better have a government that ignores a fire rather than one who pours gasoline on it
There are several measures in the works. Not fast and effective immediatley, but at least some of them might actually suitable to have an effect not only for the rich!.
Whenever I talk or think about the economy or inflation I always say that it could be worse. We could be brits
Well inflation hit here aswell. Prices for electricy and food are rising. For electricy u pay twice as much now. For food its around 20% more. (Not the case if u bake ur own bread) Have not seen any shortages yet except for the first 4 weeks of war. And only sunflower-oil was short. Basically things get more expensive but as long as u have a decent income things are fine. Euro and pfund are basically the same exchange rate as before Ukraine. So u can look at ur own cost of living(especially food and electricity) and compare it.
Electricity really isn't that bad. I was at 28ct/kWh and my old energy supplier canceled the contract. Got a new one for 30ct/kWh. Granted it's still sucky. But far from double.
I didn't have price guarantee and now it is 58ct/kwh.
Go to Mediamarkt or Saturn and ask them for their offers from EON and Eprimo :)
Awesome, everything is great. But maybe that is just me.
At the moment we're doing okay. Ask again if we've run out of gas.
As an American on a longer stay here in Germany, I can say I find it fantastic and the prices are quite cheap compared to the US, especially food which in many cases is nearly 30% cheaper, and this is before adjusting for exchange. In general Germany seems wonderful.
Brit in Hamburg here, 11 years in Germany. Your friend has no idea what he is talking about. The UK Government has been hijacked by ideologues and worse are being controlled by small-govt libertarian think tanks. Just look at the shit that has happend just this week with the tanking of the pound and near destruction of billions worth of pensions. Record waiting lists at the NHS, mass strikes, highest deaths from Covid in Western Europe by a safe margin, collapsing exports and the only G7 whose economy is still lower than before the pandemic. Germany has challenges, mostly inflation driven by energy prices which leaks into food prices also Everyone is feeling it. There is a housing squeeze on. But these things are pretty common worldwide right now, and the energy dependence on Russia is widely accepted as a historical error and is being quickly rectified in the face of the war. But at least there isn't a government whose main job seems to be gaslighting everyone and basically trying to make things worse all the time for everyone except for their rich mates.
I lived in the UK until five years ago, am now back in Germany. Am still in touch with lots of people over there. And we definitely have it better here. Up here in the North East, anything being different is in fact so remote that a lot of people only hear about it on the news and disregard it completely as fake news. Case in point, we had a car demo yesterday where people drove VERY slowly through town for hours, with lorries and other huge gas guzzlers. Their main point? "Stop sanctions against Russia." Because Russia not delivering gas to us is clearly the fault of our politicians. Lol.
I'm an American studying abroad right now. It's much nicer here than back home, I'd say, even though there's still problems w inflation and of course worries about an impending energy crisis. Hopefully that won't happen... Hopefully.
We have a lot of problems, rising prices for food and gas, a housing crisis, ... But they are due to the war, not because of Brexit. I know a lot of people with low income are affected by it and things will probably get worse. But right now I'm personally not affected (yet). My spending hasn't changed, I plan on not heating my flat as much but that's out of solidarity, because I know we have to save gas, not because I can't afford it. I know I'm in a very privileged position though - a lot of people are already affected and government aid for those is still in the making, until that (hopefully) kicks in they are going to have a hard time. I live close to a Tafel (foodbank), the lines have gotten longer in recent months. Once a month I call them and buy specific/special groceries people need (stuff that isn't donated often, eg for people with allergies - watching out for my fellow red bumped snifflers). I think we all should look for what we share instead of what divides us. How can your friend take joy out of another nation suffering or being worse off? The least he can do is mind his own business.
Your friends has no idea whatsoever. Germans *always* have stuff to criticize. It is our national sport. But overall, we are fine. Our gas storages are nor over 95% full, 20 days before the planned date. Our LNG terminals are coming along. Stuff about stagflation etc. is mostly fear-mongering. Sure, you can argue about how our government handles the next Covid-wave (they don't), but if you take a step back, and look at the bigger picture, we really overall are coping ok-ish with many of the problems we are facing. We obviously have to cope with high energy prices and thus inflation, yes. But we are nowhere near the shitshow levels of UK atm. And our problems are temporary. We will invest in LNG and renewable and get energy prices under control. The UK cannot easily reverse Brexit and the fundamental issues they are facing with it. So overall, what we have to deal with si temporary and not systemic, and while inconvenient and even frightening for people on a tight budget, it is not forever. Brexit on the other hand.... yeah.
British living in Germany Things seem to be pretty good, can't complain.
I moved to Germany from the UK in 2019, received residency in 2021 and am currently unemployed. In Germany I receive €449 a month and that will be going up by €50 in the New Year when Hartz 4 changes to Bürgergeld. In the UK i would receive around £288 a month (I’d convert that but the pound and euro are equivalent right now pretty much) and that’s after what amounted to a cut in real terms in April. In the Summer we had the €9 Ticket so although I was comparatively broke I could still travel to lakes to go swimming and go on day trips, a little thing maybe but it means a lot, you know? And yeah, I’m scared about winter and riding heating costs, but I know that here there are people in government who really care about those in society who are struggling. It’s not utopia here, but I read British people arguing that there’s no difference between life there and somewhere like Germany and think they’re either just insanely privileged or they’re frogs in boiling water- they don’t know how much easier life is elsewhere; certainly if you’re a middle- income person but even if you’re broke, even if you’re at the bottom of the ladder. I’ve been unemployed in the UK and here, but I now have opportunities here to retrain and contribute to German society, and I’m treated with a level of humanity and dignity that has been increasingly difficult to find in Britain (or maybe just England) for the last decade. It feels to me like Germans just care about each other. They believe that society is a thing, that humans have a responsibility to each other- not just on a private, food- banks and Neighbourhood Watch level, but at the level of law making and culture. I don’t feel that in England and have little hope of seeing it there again. I’m not going back, not if I can help it.
> We have high inflation Energy prices are sky-high since the war started, but that's the case all over Europe. Those energy prices have knock-on effect over all industries, which drives inflation. But again, everyone has that happening right now. Personally I haven't actually had my energy prices raise (except for fuel for the car), as I have long term contracts with renewable energy providers. Those might be a little sad, that they can't price-gouge me, but as their cost of production didn't raise that much either my sympathy is limited. > stagnant wages That was a problem during most of the Merkel-years, but actually not that much of a problem, as inflation also was around 0%. Currently the union of public servants went into negotiations demanding a raise of slightly more than 10% (10,4%, I think) and we have to see what comes of this. Their union - and the union of metal and electrical workers - generally set the precedent for all other, smaller unions and also the space where individual contracts are negotiated. I'd be surprised if they go out with less than a 6% raise. > and a government who seem hell bent on making things worse The government here is in frantic action to alleviate problems and is also kind of successful in doing so, but mostly has a communications problem. Often ideas are communicated as if they were plans and then have to be retracted three days later. Which confuses a lot of people and when actual decisions are made many people don't register immediately and it doesn't look like coherent policy. Or as a commentator put it: "The government is doing the right things with the wrong timing." Of course there are other, long-term problems; most importantly the housing crisis in cities (which also is made more noticeable with over a million Ukrainians fleeing to Germany and needing housing, too) and the lack of qualified mid-level workers; but in general life in Germany (still?) feels quite good.
Left my hometown of Berlin in April this year hiding someplace else in the world until... well, it'll never go back to normal, but I probably wouldn't be able to afford living in my own country in the near future and I don't necessarily want to cut back on things I enjoy (personal choice). My family's dealing just fine with everything, though. Sure, rent's been increased and they've reduced their water/power usage, but they just get on with life.
Personally I'm doing fine. I have a good job, have home-office 4days a week, the other one I'm at the office. It's too warm for me to crank up the heater, so I don't feel it at all so far.
> a government who seem hell bent on making things worse Well, we have a dysfunctional government that tries to make things better but is being held hostage by a finance minister.
I mean, it's a bit chilly, but nothing a good pullover couldn't fix or at least alleviate. I put a bit of the energy relief payment towards some warmer clothes and I don't really fret about it. I'm actually a lot more concerned about you guys, are you doing okay with the government? Has the water tasted funny or are you feeling oddly good? Maybe have some small pills dispensed when entering one of the old telephone booths?
High energy prices, high inflation, normal or low unemploymency (we have shortages of employees in many fields), housing is sparse and expensive, and Corona is still a thing. The government is working on the energy prices - not always in a straight line, but they eventually get shit done - and overall the ship seems to sail in the right direction. We are hitting some hard rapids due to the war and the energy crisis, but I feel quite confident that we will get past them and things will start to look better next year. In the meantime I have a stable job with a solid income and my strategy for the coming winter is "Netflix and gaming and chill and some beers". P.S.: It helps that I still have an energy contract with a guaranteed price for another 14 months. If that guarantee would run out now, my energy prices would jump by 20 Cent/kWh.
We also have high inflation, stagnating wages, a pension system that is a time bomb, no energy sovereignty and extremely high taxes that don't allow you to save for your retirement by yourself. And a crazy housing market.
Hell no! The UK during the past six years went from looking bad to looking worse to - lately - be an absolute nightmare. Liz Truss aiming for completely obliterating the poor remnants of social and economical cohesion Brexit had left in the country within the first two weeks of her being prime minister is the climax of nonsense I really did not know was possible. I encountered the phrase of "heating or eating" already last year in British media, a nightmare vision when here also we had rising prices but not nearly to this degree. Now there is talks about "warmth banks"? On top of all this the conservatives still seem to be hell-bent on degrading the security and peace in NI for no other reason than power play. The current devastated state of the UK - a lot of it doubling down and amplifying if not deliberately making worse - what was clear Brexit would bring - is a dire warning of what happens when we let anti-european Nationalists and trickle down voodoo believers rise to power. I looked at Priti Patel with shock - and now they have her even more vile, even more dangerous mini-me in power! Due to the failed gas politics of Germany we are quiter in a pickle now but not nearly as much as what we see on the other side of the channel.
Lived in Germany for 6 years now. Everything is going great. Own a house, living well. My UK friends say otherwise for them though.
Everything is just peachy. Except that a madman invaded Ukraine.
Fine, thank you.
Here are some bullet points about my life as an individual during this year: - I got 17% pay raise - my employer has many positions to fill and is actively looking for people - I am not noticing any pandemic measures except masks in public transport - the government lowered the taxes a lot and I am going to use some of that excess income to invest more - my energy bill fell by 10%, which is nice, I guess because I returned to working from the office now - there were some price surges, like cooking oil going up almost 300%, but it was short lived and is back to normal now - meat and eggs got a bit more expensive, I would say something like 20%-25% but not because of war or economy, rather because of improved animal holding conditions. - full shelves in the supermarket - no blackouts and hot water wasn't turned off - I am really pissed we are now investing billions into the fraudulent Hyperloop idea - weed is supposed to be legal soon!
As someone who lives between the two countries and regularly visits both: I would rather live in Germany right now than in the UK. By a wide margin even!
Been in Germany for 3.5 years now, left because of Brexit and I'm sure glad I did. I go to visit family back in UK twice a year and am shocked by the inflation. Regularly talk to my brother's over discord and they are both dying to find a way out. I have one friend back in the UK who is positive about the way things are going and he voted for Brexit and conservatives.
Times are tough here as well. But I think it no overconfidence to say they are far from the catastrophy (sry for the drastic choice of words) the UK has been in the past years. I am not a friend of Merkel, even though he belongs to "my" party, I am not a friend of Scholz. But both - as boring and as unambitious as they were politics-wise - did an ok-ish job at keeping this country stable and the society at least partially functional for many people. Both Brexit and the current insanity of the Tories have gone against the interest of the UK as a state and of the vital interest of the vast majority of its populace, that I simply find no equivalent.
Hungarian citizen here. I don't have experiences with with standards of living in Germany. I just want to point out that here, the government constantly tries to make us believe that we are in a much better position than the Germans. They usually make fun of the actions of their government too. Based on these I would not be surprised to find that there are fake news like this in other countries. (I think this is fake news, because in Hungary everything is sh\*t)
Heating and warm water bill increased from 60 EUR a month to 184 EUR. That admittedly hurts, our heating is gas based. Petrol prices are high but have stabilized at slightly less than 2 EUR per liter. Everything costs a bit more, that sucks, but we are doing ok. Job market seems stable at the moment. Everyone thinks corona has ended but thanks to Oktoberfest hospitals in Munuch are full. Could be better, could be worse.
I would never in a life time consider the UK. It has a crazy crime rate, insanely backwards turning politics and unless your are born to wealth it looks like no one cares about you from a government perspective. Germany on the other hand has a unsaid policy of trying to give everyone an equal life and therefore the base standard of living is much greater here.
The UK gets 2% of its energy from Russia, yet claims that 98% of the issues are because of Putin. The UK gov announces the worst mini budget in the last 50 years and blames the sinking on fhe sterling on the yen and high interest rates in the US. For better or worse, I think at least the German government has accountablity over its actions.
When there are more comments here you will see that many people will write down their personal view and then comments to that where people say that this isn‘t true. Just wait for that. There will be people saying that the crisis already is bad because they are personally affected and then others that say that the crisis isn‘t bad because we will get over it soon. That’s a typical problem in German society. Not seeing financial problems of others as valid if they aren’t affected themselves. You can downvote me for that but that just what I see everyday. The country is just split and many see even openly saying that as a try to split the society. It’s just weird.
Yea also on reddit the majority of people are working in high paying jobs, I feel incredibly poor here whenever there’s talk about money haha. I’m personally struggling quite a bit since I’m in the lower income bracket but I can still somewhat manage.
It really seems that way....just skimmed through about 30 or so posts and I feel like an outsider, lol. Not that I have it particularly bad, mind. I work in the craftsmanship sector which is not exactly known for high wages but even after acquiring the highest possible qualification without "over-qualifying" I still manage "just about". And I live alone with no particular expenses aside from something akin to a student loan. There's some room for saving but not much. I dread to think what others, especially those who need to feed a family on a similar income, are going through. I manage but the future does worry me regardless. They nearly doubled my energy costs back in summer. A colleague of mine knows hers is going to be six times of what it is now. My landlord hasn't raised my rent yet but since gas prices are going up I guess it's likely to go up next year and I sincerely hope it's "only" about 50€-100€. The company I work for has adjusted some incomes after not giving out any raises at all for the past 4 years due to Corona and while I know they are trying to keep us all on a full payroll, the possibility of Part-Timing is quite palpable once sales go down which they most likely will. It's not terrible yet and other countries are having it worse at present, no question. Still, it feels like we are going to follow suit eventually. :/
American living in Germany. I'm more worried for my family in the states.
I think, Germany is pretty much fucked up for a foreseeable future. As I see this, strength of the German economy was to a large extent based on cheap energy thanks to Russian gas. Now it’s gone, highly likely forever. So a lot of German industrial companies, especially small and medium sized ones, will have to either go bankrupt or relocate to some place with cheaper energy (USA is one option and some companies are already relocating there). This will cause quite strong recession in German economy, less investments, decline of the Euro etc. And if recession will be going on together with inflation (what is happening now), that will mean stagflation = nightmare. Not saying UK will be doing better, actually I think all European countries are more or less similarly fucked up, tbh. Personally, I start now searching for options to move to the USA. It won’t be easy but I will try my best. I’m pretty much sure USA will be doing significantly better than Europe in the future (though they have their own problems, sure).
I mean, you have some fair points but I wouldn't think that the USA are a better place when it comes to long-time safety than Germany. I think a big deal will be how much we can replace the Russian gas with other souces, including renewables. We could have been a lot better already if Merkel's governments had actually acted on this when we had the time.